colors in regular openbsd terminal

[Parvinder Bhasin]

Hi,

I was wondering if there was to get some colors inside the regular  
terminal (not Xterm or Xorg).
I know if I alias colorls it sort of works for just listing  
directories and files but I would like to customize the look of the  
entire terminal for example :


lets say I type in "ifconfig " , I would like to change the colors on  
the ip addresses and the interface names.

Any pointers would come in handy.  Thanks in advance.

thx.

Re: OpenBSD 4.3 and Xorg resolution 1280x800?

[Matthieu Herrb]

On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 8:39 PM, rancor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi. Thanks for your reply
>
>  I'm running OpenBSD 4.3 in a virtual environment using Virtualbox 1.6 and
>  they don't have any grapics adapter specified. They just say: Use VESA
>  generic adapter and that's what I'm doing.
>
>  Maybe it's Virtualbox that is the problem and not OpenBSD.

As I've explained it several times, the VESA driver can only use modes
that the BIOS knows about.
If the virtualbox emulated BIOS doesn't provide a 1280x800 mode,
you're out of luck.

problem building release for 4.3 stable

[Anthony Roberts]

I've been having trouble building releases for 4.3. It fails on
checkflist, apparently it doesn't expect to see /etc/firmware/ral-rt2860.
Output is:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/distrib/sets# sh checkflist
115a116
> ./etc/firmware/ral-rt2860
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/distrib/sets# echo $?
1
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:/usr/src/distrib/sets#

It looks like src/distrib/sets/lists/base/md.i386 is missing a line for
./etc/firmware/ral-rt2860. This gets added in revision 1.693, but the
revision that was tagged OPENBSD_4_3 doesn't have that line. Adding the
line locally lets checkflist succeed for me, but I'm not really sure if
I'm just silencing a problem while producing an incorrect build.

Is this file really supposed to be present in 4.3?

TIA for any feedback,

-Anthony

Re: newfs during install

[Nick Holland]

Denis Doroshenko wrote:
...
> the faq continuously repeats "root partition" where (i believe) "root
> filesystem" is actually meant. it is confusing, as a partition may
> be primary or secondary, then OpenBSD supports only primary
> partitions and only one per drive (unless something changed since)
> and that's where the disklabel is stored. also it is a root filesystem
> that should be within the bounds readable by BIOS (as far as i
> remember an OpenBSD partition size does not mean much of
> anything, since partition size may be a subject of BIOS restrictions,
> and once the kernel is running, the OS does not care about those)

no, it means what it says, and says what it means (at least in this
regard. :)

File systems live on partitions.  Partitions are created with fdisk
and disklabel, and file systems live on those partitions, created
with newfs.  (of course, file systems can also live on virtual disks
made out of other partitions, or files residing on file systems within
partitions residing on real or virtual disks...and more.  Your head
spinning yet?)

Ok, at least that's my definition.

You can also say "fdisk makes partitions disklabel makes slices" or
"fdisk makes slices and disklabel makes partitions" or "fdisk makes
partitions and disklabel makes subpartitions" or "fdisk makes
do-hickies and disklabel makes thig-a-majigs", but no matter how you
put it, SOMEONE, if not most people, are going to get confused when
they first start out.  This is acknowledged directly here:
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq4.html#Disks

Changing the terms will only confuse people differently (or exactly
the same, just with different words).  Heck, I remember back when
hard disks started becoming available to the masses (i.e., less than
the price of a new luxury car), people were confused about
partitioning then.  It's confusing and not immediately intuitive.
It has to be understood, and changing the names will do NOTHING to
help this, 'specially when substituting another imprecise term.
(i.e., could not "file system" mean "the collection of files,
directories and partitions starting at '/'"?  Imprecise, but I
don't think invalid)

A further confusion factor is the fact that some form of partitioning
exists on all our platforms.  In some cases (for example, armish), two
layers of partitioning are used, in some cases (for example, sparc),
one layer.  In at least one case (macppc), it can be either one or two
layers. :)  "partition" is a good Unix term with lots of history, and
a good PC term with lots of history...and users are familiar with both.
And then...Unix came to the PC.  I don't think either group has the
right to say to the other, "You need to use a new word".  Simply
changing the words will leave people wondering, "Do they mean
'partition' here?  It sure sounds like partitions".

I do think our FAQ documentation on partitioning (fdisk, disklabel) is
much better than it was long ago, but it could still use improvement,
and if someone wants to show me a CROSS PLATFORM replacement for FAQ
sections 14.1 and 14.2, do so...but improving it will be more than
simply replacing words.  However, I doubt it will ever be a one
paragraph, one-read-through thing for new OpenBSD users.  Or Linux
users.  Or Windows users...

Nick.

Re: Window Manager

[Douglas A. Tutty]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 09:29:42PM -0300, Gonzalo Lionel Rodriguez wrote:
> I dont know if it is the place to ask it, but that window manager uses? And
> why?


I don't understand the question.  Are you asking what window manager I
use?  icewm:  small, easy to configure, has a taskbar for frequently
used apps.  Works well on my low-resource systems.  


Doug.

Re: Editing C with...

[Åke Nordin]

On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 3:25 AM, Stephan Andre' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Nah, teco.
>
>  Or, SOS
>
>  --STeve Andre' (ducks)

AMIS, in fuldamental mode. At least one old hand
will recall times when v7 wasn't much more than
rumours in our part of the world, and the creatures
of rms still were mostly benign (and certainly worth
to clone).

/moose (Bedard ?)

Window Manager

[Gonzalo Lionel Rodriguez]

I dont know if it is the place to ask it, but that window manager uses? And
why?

Regards

Re: Doubt about license

[chefren]

On 5/4/08 8:37 PM, Lars NoodC)n wrote:

Marco Peereboom wrote:


public domain is not properly defined in the framework of the law.


http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/public_domain/

Public domain is very clearly defined by law: it is the absence of
copyright.  If it's public domain, then you and everyone else can do
*anything* to it or with it.


Might be so that an US law states that, but as far as I know the Berne 
convention, between almost every country on Earth, US included, states 
that everyone/company automatically has copyright with the creative 
conception of anything new.


So it's basically wrong, there is always automatically a copyright holder.


Where it comes up to is knowing who has the copyright and the licensing 
given by the copyright holder.



Although I hate in band signaling, it's quite practical for source code 
to state in every file who is/are the copyright holder(s) and what 
license (s)he attached to her/his work.



A lot is written about BSD and "honoring" the author with her/his name, 
everyone may think so, but without the name of the copyright holder it's 
 often very difficult to find out or verify if the copyright holder has 
given the particular license.



The BSD license contains the practical absolute minimum of information 
to make software as free as possible.


+++chefren

Re: Editing C with...

[William Boshuck]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 05:32:28PM +0200, Dorian B|ttner wrote:
> Steve Shockley schrieb:
> >
> > Had a royal PITA the other day when I misspelled "softdep" in the 
> >/usr line in fstab, and didn't know how to use ed.
> >
> 
> No prob w/o ed :) You can just cat /etc/fstab | grep -v usr >> 
> /etc/fstab.new followed by echo '' >> /etc/fstab.new and then 
> mv everything to it's correct destination.

Were he stranded without /usr (and so, without grep, at
least on OpenBSD), Steve would not have been able to do
that (and if you can mount /usr, just ust vi(1)).
A little more than one year ago, Matthias Kilian posted
a nice bit of "ed advocacy" to this list:

http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=117565306629772

Re: Editing C with...

[Denny White]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1


Quoted from Girish Venkatachalam on Sun, May 04, 2008 at 04:18:10AM +0530,:
> On 13:51:58 May 03, Robert C Wittig wrote:
> 
> > vi/vim.
> >
> > I use it for most of my editing tasks, not just writing C code.
> 
> I use vim since it enhances my coding speed in a big way.
> 
> As to KNF I guess it is just a habit that I want to inculcate for all my
> C coding. Right now it is voluntary and occasionally painful but I don't
> want to lose the chance to make it automatic by going in for a tool.
> 
> I am bowled over by vim's knowledge of config file syntax and the way it
> highlights various keywords. That way I can afford to be a bit lazy with
> certain programming languages or even config file directives. It would
> highlight typos in a different color.
> 
> Occasionally vim does  go wrong however but so far it has not affected
> me.
> 
> I type out this mail with vim and it helps me appear good since I have
> auto spell check on. With bad keyboards I tend to make silly typos and
> vim can save my day by highlighting it and alerting me. 
> 
> Of course I would not be so much in love with vim but for its vi key
> bindings. 
> 
> As to power editing you should really read the short and sweet document
> written by the author of vim Bram Moolenaar.
> 
> (If someone can locate it for me I shall be obliged. ;)
>

> He emphasizes how the steep learning curve experienced by vi learners
> are paid back in full in due course of time. I can vouch for it. So what
> if it is counter intuitive in the beginning?
> 
> So what if it is sometimes tougher than emacs? Once you use it every time
> you create a document be it LaTeX or e-mail or source code or config
> file editing, you stick to one editor and that according to me is an
> amazing convenience.
> 
> Its ability to read and write files makes it even more powerful of
> course. And the output of commands.
> 
> Hope this helps. That said choice is yours as always. ;)
> 
> Open source is a democratic world. ;)
> 
> -Girish
> 

You might check here for the article you spoke of:

http://www.moolenaar.net/vim.html


Denny White

- -- 

I'm not crazy, but I am a carrier.

All messages scanned by ClamAssassin
http://jameslick.com/clamassassin/
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-END PGP SIGNATURE-

Re: Doubt about license

[Martin Schröder]

2008/5/4 debian developer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  Let me make a few things clear. I am a newbie. I'm not a troll but a
>  seriously curious guy wanting to know.

Which is why you stay anonym and don't follow the discussion. Looks
like trolling to me.

OTOH a non-troll would have the knowledge of
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html and had done his
research by reading e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-software_licence#The_Permissive_versus_Copyleft_controversy

Best
   Martin

Re: Doubt about license

[chefren]

On 5/4/08 12:15 PM, Pieter Verberne wrote:


But wouldn't it be just great to put anything
like this in a file's header? :
# This file is in public domain
or even better:
# public domain


When there is no name there is nobody who can testify it is in the 
public domain.


Don't forget: Basically everything is copyrighted, if you produce 
something you =have= copyright, the right to license. You may choose for 
a BSD license or even "copy left" but without your creator name nobody 
can check/verify anything.


+++chefren

Re: OpenBSD 4.3 and Xorg resolution 1280x800?

[Manuel Wildauer]

Which Video-Card?

I have a "Intel 82855GM" and in my Xorg.conf are:
Driver  "intel"

It works good


On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 11:41:01AM +0200, rancor wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I'm trying to get the screen resolution to working in X. I always got
> 1024x768 but I want 1280x800
> 
> Worth to mention is that I'm running OpenBSD as a guest with Virtualbox 1.6
> on a Vista 32-bit host.
> 
> As screen device am I using * Generic VESA compatible and in Subsection
> "Display" for each depth am I only using "Modes   "1280x800""
> 
> Any ideas?
> 
> Regards rancor
---end quoted text---

Re: OpenBSD 4.3 and Xorg resolution 1280x800?

[Predrag Punosevac]

rancor wrote:
Ah, it helped a little bit to change the refreshing rates to higher 
values. I got 1280x1024 now but I can't get wide screens resolutions. 
I installed 815resolution and made it run as it was recommended in 
rc.securelevel.


I did add 1280x800 in xorg.conf but I can't see it in xrandr either.


Before we go any further make sure that your HorzSync is 30-120
and VertRefresh 50-150. Then after you restart X server
o pen the shell:-)  Type  xrandr as  a normal user.  You will see the
list of available resolutions for the color  Depth used by your X server.
If 1280x800 is listed just type xrandr -s 1280x800 and you will get it.
If it is not listed means it is not available for your xorg.conf file and
possibly your hardware. You should read man pages for vesa driver (which 
I do not use) and xorg before playing further with xorg.conf file.


Best,
Predrag




Any more ideas?

Thanks

Regards rancor


On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 7:19 PM, Predrag Punosevac 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:


rancor wrote:
Try changing the refreshing rates to something higher.
as in


Section "Monitor"

  #DisplaySize  320   240 # mm
  Identifier   "Monitor0"
  VendorName   "DEL"
  ModelName"DELL E773c"
### Comment all HorizSync and VertRefresh values to use DDC:
  HorizSync30 - 70
  VertRefresh  50.0 - 120.0
  Option  "DPMS"
EndSection


You can use xrandr as well to play with the resolutions without
the need to restart X server.

Best,
Predrag

Re: Is NV supposed to be SLOW?

[Matthew Szudzik]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 04:17:58PM -0300, Nenhum_de_Nos wrote:
> radeonhd has any 3D ?

3D acceleration is not currently supported on OpenBSD, but work is being
done to ensure that it will be supported in the future.  A recent
progress report, together with a description of the status of NVIDIA,
ATI, and Intel drivers, was posted at
 http://www.undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20080416195151&pid=44

Re: newfs during install

[Denis Doroshenko]

On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 10:29 PM, Otto Moerbeek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  An FFS can only be as large as 1TB. You cannot change an FFS into an
>  FFS2 fileystem and you cannot use FFS2 for any filesystems used by the
>  installer. Just create the large filesystem after installation. But
>  check the FAQ too, it contains som hints how to handle large
>  filesystems.
>
>  http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#LargeDrive

the faq continuously repeats "root partition" where (i believe) "root
filesystem" is actually meant. it is confusing, as a partition may
be primary or secondary, then OpenBSD supports only primary
partitions and only one per drive (unless something changed since)
and that's where the disklabel is stored. also it is a root filesystem
that should be within the bounds readable by BIOS (as far as i
remember an OpenBSD partition size does not mean much of
anything, since partition size may be a subject of BIOS restrictions,
and once the kernel is running, the OS does not care about those)

>  Summary: a large filesytem might not be what you want.
>
> -Otto

Re: What tarball is xlib.h in in 4.3?

[Owain Ainsworth]

Should be xbase

-0-

On 04/05/2008, stan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm building my first 4.3 system, and one of the ports needs xlib.h. What
> install tarball is this in?
>
> --
> One of the main causes of the fall of the roman empire was that, lacking
> zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C
> programs.

Re: acpidock status

[Alexander Hall]

Alexander Hall wrote:

Owain Ainsworth wrote:

On Sat, May 03, 2008 at 12:54:05AM +0200, Alexander Hall wrote:

Hi!

What is the status of acpidock(4)? From source-changes@ etc I cannot 
tell if it's considered usable or highly experimental.


Still the latter, unfortunately.


...


[ For the archives ]

I got informed off-list that acpidock is not usable in its current 
state. For now, I'll use the ultrabase as an extention of the laptop, 
and only attach/detach while the computer is powered off.


(This does not really bother me since missing APM makes me unable to 
suspend or hibernate anyway... :-)


/Alexander

Re: Doubt about license

[Randal L. Schwartz]

> "Pieter" == Pieter Verberne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Pieter> I'm wondering what OpenBSD people think about BSD (-like) licenses
Pieter> versus public domain.

"public domain" is not a legal "license" in some countries.  In other
words, you can't totally give away all your rights.  So, an explicit
license is required.

I learned this while taping the FLOSS Weekly show about SQLite
(twit.tv/floss26), which Richard Hipp placed in "the public domain" before
determining that later there would be problems. :)

-- 
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion

What tarball is xlib.h in in 4.3?

[stan]

I'm building my first 4.3 system, and one of the ports needs xlib.h. What
install tarball is this in?

-- 
One of the main causes of the fall of the roman empire was that, lacking
zero, they had no way to indicate successful termination of their C
programs.

Re: newfs during install

[Otto Moerbeek]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 02:03:49PM -0400, Chris Zakelj wrote:

> Trying to install 4.3 from scratch onto the machine I use as my home file 
> server, coming against a problem.  The previous configuration was 4x160g as 
> a RAID-5 for OS/support/whatever, and 4x300g drives RAID-5 for samba.  I've 
> changed the config so that it's now 2x160 as RAID-1, and 6x300 as RAID-5, 
> necessitating the reinstall.  The problem I'm having is that the 1.5T array 
> now exceeds the install script's 2^31-1 limitation of an FFS filesystem.  
> Is there a way I can pass "-O 2" to newfs during installation (telling it 
> to use FFS2), or am I better off using growfs once the system is up and 
> running?

An FFS can only be as large as 1TB. You cannot change an FFS into an
FFS2 fileystem and you cannot use FFS2 for any filesystems used by the
installer. Just create the large filesystem after installation. But
check the FAQ too, it contains som hints how to handle large
filesystems. 

http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#LargeDrive

Summary: a large filesytem might not be what you want.

-Otto

Re: Is NV supposed to be SLOW?

[Nenhum_de_Nos]

On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 9:52 AM, Marco Peereboom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It is in this thread:
>  http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=120926655909874&w=2

thanks for the link :)

well, the chat on the thread just fires bombs on nVidia, what is not new.
apart from some info from you about radeonhd, no info from ATi on Open
Source OS.

radeonhd has any 3D ?
is it possible to run 3D games on it, even if its on linux. my doubt
is about 3D driver on any opensource OS.

the thing is that I'm colecting info for my next video card buy.

thanks for all, :)

matheus

>  On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 01:59:14AM -0300, Nenhum_de_Nos wrote:
>  > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 8:35 PM, Marco Peereboom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  > > Just a few days ago I answered this question.  Simply look for it.
>  >
>  >  if you could tell me the email subject. I've looked for every mail
>  > from [EMAIL PROTECTED] in the misc (from gmail's search options) and
>  > found none nvidia reletad (apart from this). may be me being
>  > unfortunate.
>  >
>  > no luck also from
>  > 
> http://www.google.com/custom?q=nvidia&hl=en&client=pub-1916336824448304&cof=FORID:1%3BGL:1%3BLBGC:336699%3BLC:%23ff%3BVLC:%23663399%3BGFNT:%23ff%3BGIMP:%23ff%3BDIV:%23336699%3B&domains=openbsd.monkey.org&sitesearch=openbsd.monkey.org&oe=ISO-8859-1&start=10&sa=N
>  >
>  > :(
>  >
>  > if you for any reason (regardless) can't say, no problem.
>  >
>  > thanks anyway,
>  >
>  > matheus
>  >
>  > >  On Sat, May 03, 2008 at 05:47:57PM -0300, Nenhum_de_Nos wrote:
>  > >  > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Marco Peereboom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
>  > >  > > Yes.  NVIDIA refuses to make a useful open source driver.  It is 
> barely
>  > >  > >  functional and it generally sucks really really bad.  Stay away 
> from
>  > >  > >  NVIDIA when doing open source.
>  > >  >
>  > >  > by any means this is criticism, just for information only.
>  > >  >
>  > >  > so, for open source should I look for what in graphics subject ?
>  > >  > I had bad time using ATi some time ago so I bought nVidia. but there
>  > >  > is no luck in running 64bits FreeBSD on it :(
>  > >  >
>  > >  > if you have any info on this please :)
>  > >  >
>  > >  > thanks,
>  > >  >
>  > >  > matheus
>  > >  >
>  > >  >
>  > >  > --
>  > >  > We will call you cygnus,
>  > >  > The God of balance you shall be
>  > >  >
>  > >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > We will call you cygnus,
>  > The God of balance you shall be
>  >
>



-- 
We will call you cygnus,
The God of balance you shall be

Re: Is NV supposed to be SLOW?

[Marco Peereboom]

Nick if you looked at the code of that driver you would not have written
this blurb.

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 01:24:20PM -0400, Nick Holland wrote:
> Marco Peereboom wrote:
> > Yes.  NVIDIA refuses to make a useful open source driver.  It is barely
> > functional and it generally sucks really really bad.  Stay away from
> > NVIDIA when doing open source.
> 
> I'm going to express a very small and highly qualified exception to this
> comment...
> 
> I have found that OLD nvidia cards (16M-ish ones) work pretty darned
> well with the base nv driver for OpenBSD.  I'd say "just worked", other
> than in a multi-headed config, it goes a bit stupid and tried to run the
> monitors at 2048x1600 or similar absurd resolution (which actually, one
> of my monitors DID come up in...shocking the heck out of me and probably
> the monitor, too).
> 
> So, I'm not going to argue the point on new cutting edge stuff, but on
> my old junk, the stock, OpenBSD-provided nv works pretty well.
> 
> vga1 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 "NVIDIA GeForce2 MX 100" rev 0xb2
> "NVIDIA Vanta" rev 0x15 at pci0 dev 14 function 0 not configured
> "NVIDIA Vanta" rev 0x15 at pci0 dev 15 function 0 not configured
> (one AGP 1280x1024, two PCI 1280x1024, 1600x1200)
> 
> I felt this important to mention because when I was originally building
> fluffy, my three-headed system, I was looking for NON-nv cards because
> of past discussions, and wasn't having much luck finding non-nv PCI cards.
> I finally bought a couple junk, unmarked cards, figured, "let's see what
> they do", and they came up GREAT..as nvidia cards using the nv driver.
> 
> Granted, my usage is fairly basic.  The only multi-media anything I have
> on this system is xmms.  When flipping rapidly between screens, I see
> the screen redraw ('specially on my PCI-based 1600x1200 screen), but it
> is no big deal.  Much bigger problem is moving the mouse from the far
> right hand screen to the far left hand screen or visa-versa...and that
> is a (dis) function of my cluttered desk, not the video driver. :)
> 
> Nick.

Re: Editing C with...

[Owain Ainsworth]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 08:19:24AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote:
> He is eluding to things like smart tabs and auto indent.  Those are
> disabled by default on vim and when programming they are both a curse and
> a gift from the gods.  I'll admit to having spend more than a few
> minutes fine tuning that.
> 
> I am an old vi rat that finally caved to vim for several reasons.
> Let me mention just a few:
>   * ctrl-p (autocomplete of a word)
>   * ctrl-v (visual blocks)
>   * split

nvi does that: :E (instead of :e), :N (:n), etc start in a new window,
^w to switch.


>   * spelling check
>   * tab complete commands and filenames in command mode
not necesserily tab, but again, there's an option for that.

Just for the record...
-0-
-- 
The years of peak mental activity are undoubtedly between the ages of
four and eighteen.  At four we know all the questions, at eighteen all
the answers.

Re: Is NV supposed to be SLOW?

[Jukka Ruohonen]

> > Yes.  NVIDIA refuses to make a useful open source driver.  It is barely
> > functional and it generally sucks really really bad.  Stay away from
> > NVIDIA when doing open source.
> 
> I'm going to express a very small and highly qualified exception to this
> comment...

I concur: clearly things are not as bad as some have expressed (noting also
that the current situation is bad, regardless of the card). As for Nvidia as
a vendor, nothing to add.

> I have found that OLD nvidia cards (16M-ish ones) work pretty darned
> well with the base nv driver for OpenBSD.  I'd say "just worked", other
> than in a multi-headed config, it goes a bit stupid and tried to run the
> monitors at 2048x1600 or similar absurd resolution (which actually, one
> of my monitors DID come up in...shocking the heck out of me and probably
> the monitor, too).

I run 2048x1536 + 1600x1200 -xinerama setup here with two low-end GeForce
6200 pci-e cards and nv. Works reasonably well.

> Granted, my usage is fairly basic.  The only multi-media anything I have
> on this system is xmms.  When flipping rapidly between screens, I see

Ditto: I run Fluxbox and seldom use any GUI-applications at all. I haven't
tried any video, let alone any 3d. Works reasonably well under these
settings.

- Jukka.

newfs during install

[Chris Zakelj]

Trying to install 4.3 from scratch onto the machine I use as my home 
file server, coming against a problem.  The previous configuration was 
4x160g as a RAID-5 for OS/support/whatever, and 4x300g drives RAID-5 for 
samba.  I've changed the config so that it's now 2x160 as RAID-1, and 
6x300 as RAID-5, necessitating the reinstall.  The problem I'm having is 
that the 1.5T array now exceeds the install script's 2^31-1 limitation 
of an FFS filesystem.  Is there a way I can pass "-O 2" to newfs during 
installation (telling it to use FFS2), or am I better off using growfs 
once the system is up and running?

Re: Doubt about license

[Paul de Weerd]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 05:55:16PM +0200, Pieter Verberne wrote:
| > As an example, I like to give away my code for people to study and play
| > with.  The only thing I "demand" is credit for that piece of code.  The
| > reason I do not abandon that right is because at some point in my life I
| > might need to use my open source work as a resume or as a reference.
| Keeping authorship for a resume sounds like a somewhat good reason
| to me. I think you could also use public domain code for a resume,
| but that may have it's downsides. My question is something like: is
| keeping copyright worth putting the annoying license in every file?

This "annoying license" is what got you your Operating System in the
first place. McKusick has an interesting story to tell about the
history of BSD licensing. The guys at Berkeley did two amazing jobs.
They wrote BSD and they got the Regents of the UoC (and their lawyers)
to sign off on the BSD license (and, some years later, the modified
BSD license). It is because of this license that you get to run
OpenBSD (and, generally, just about every other OS out there).

Another important point is that your question is wrong. "Keeping
copyright" does not require a license. By creating a work, you (the
creator, which may be your employer) are its copyright holder. This
means that you get all the rights associated with your work. Now the
BSD (and ISC) license basically give most of these rights to the user.
You are allowed to use, copy and modify the work simply because the
license is there, in every file, stating that you are allowed to use,
copy and modify.

Calling it an "annoying license" is somewhat disrespectful. If you
find the license annoying, don't use the work. I do this quite often,
in fact, not use some piece of software because I don't like the
license.

| > All files require a copyright and license notice.
| True, but is the name of the license, or the name + URL enough? Than you
| could replace the whole ISC license with just the line like:
| # This file is ISC-licensed.

And who wrote "This file" ? You seem to have forgotten the copyright
notice. The part where it says (c) 2008, .

| This would make one reason for using public domain less; It won't safe
| lines in textfiles.

What is so annoying about a few lines of text in a source file ?

Yeah, just "being Dutch" and all... ;)

Cheers,

Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd

-- 
>[<++>-]<+++.>+++[<-->-]<.>+++[<+
+++>-]<.>++[<>-]<+.--.[-]
 http://www.weirdnet.nl/ 

Re: Is NV supposed to be SLOW?

[Jacob Meuser]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 01:24:20PM -0400, Nick Holland wrote:
> Marco Peereboom wrote:
> > Yes.  NVIDIA refuses to make a useful open source driver.  It is barely
> > functional and it generally sucks really really bad.  Stay away from
> > NVIDIA when doing open source.
> 
> I'm going to express a very small and highly qualified exception to this
> comment...
> 
> I have found that OLD nvidia cards (16M-ish ones) work pretty darned
> well with the base nv driver for OpenBSD.  I'd say "just worked", other
> than in a multi-headed config, it goes a bit stupid and tried to run the
> monitors at 2048x1600 or similar absurd resolution (which actually, one
> of my monitors DID come up in...shocking the heck out of me and probably
> the monitor, too).
> 
> So, I'm not going to argue the point on new cutting edge stuff, but on
> my old junk, the stock, OpenBSD-provided nv works pretty well.
> 
> vga1 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 "NVIDIA GeForce2 MX 100" rev 0xb2
> "NVIDIA Vanta" rev 0x15 at pci0 dev 14 function 0 not configured
> "NVIDIA Vanta" rev 0x15 at pci0 dev 15 function 0 not configured
> (one AGP 1280x1024, two PCI 1280x1024, 1600x1200)
> 
> I felt this important to mention because when I was originally building
> fluffy, my three-headed system, I was looking for NON-nv cards because
> of past discussions, and wasn't having much luck finding non-nv PCI cards.
> I finally bought a couple junk, unmarked cards, figured, "let's see what
> they do", and they came up GREAT..as nvidia cards using the nv driver.
> 
> Granted, my usage is fairly basic.  The only multi-media anything I have
> on this system is xmms.  When flipping rapidly between screens, I see
> the screen redraw ('specially on my PCI-based 1600x1200 screen), but it
> is no big deal.  Much bigger problem is moving the mouse from the far
> right hand screen to the far left hand screen or visa-versa...and that
> is a (dis) function of my cluttered desk, not the video driver. :)

same here.  that nVidia Vanta (agp) in the dmesg I posted in this
thread works quite well for playing movies/watching tv, etc.

it actually works better than the ATI Radeon 9200 SE (also agp) I have
in another machine, both for 2d and 3d (well, glxgears at least is ~ 5x
faster on the nVidia ... but that might have something to do with the
nVidia being in an i386 and the Radeon being in an amd64).

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

Re: OpenBSD 4.3 and Xorg resolution 1280x800?

[rancor]

Hi. Thanks for your reply

I'm running OpenBSD 4.3 in a virtual environment using Virtualbox 1.6 and
they don't have any grapics adapter specified. They just say: Use VESA
generic adapter and that's what I'm doing.

Maybe it's Virtualbox that is the problem and not OpenBSD.

Regards rancor


On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 5:16 PM, Manuel Wildauer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> Which Video-Card?
>
> I have a "Intel 82855GM" and in my Xorg.conf are:
> Driver  "intel"
>
> It works good

Re: Doubt about license

[Grumpy]

> The dutch are notoriously known to argue for arguments sake.  That is
> what I was getting at.

Come on. Only those of french descent do.

Re: Jack, sun and envy problem

[Jacob Meuser]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 08:09:17PM +0200, Jean-michel Bessot wrote:
> It works with the version in ports and the -i 0 option, not -i 12 .

ah, I forgot about audio(4) buffers being limited to 65536 bytes.

12 channels * 4 bytes per sample = 48 bytes per frame.  jackd uses
2 buffers of 1024 frames each by default, so you need 2048 frames of
buffer space, which is 98304 bytes, which won't work.  instead, tell
jackd to use 512 frame buffers (2 * 512 * 48 = 49152):

$ jackd -d sun -o 10 -i 12 -w 32 -p 512

there is still an inefficiency with duplex mode in the current port
though.  I'm waiting for upstream to make a decision about another
patch before I update the port.


> Thx for your help .
> 
> -- 
> Jean-michel Bessot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

Re: Jack, sun and envy problem

[Jacob Meuser]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 11:53:04AM -0600, Tom Rosso wrote:
> Jacob Meuser wrote:
> >you DON'T want to run jackd as root.  anything connecting to jackd will
> >have to run as root.  and no, it does not improve performance.
> >
> 
> I've experienced permissions-related problems with Jack before, and 
> meant this as a troubleshooting step.

maybe on some other OS that tries to play tricks to enable realtime 
scheduling for non-root users?

jackd doesn't even have a config file.  the only possible permission
problems with starting jackd, on OpenBSD, is with not being able to
create fifos under /tmp/jack-`id -u`.

  Obviously you don't want to try 
> to use audio applications with jackd running as root.
> 

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

Re: Jack, sun and envy problem

[Jacob Meuser]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 08:27:39PM +0530, Girish Venkatachalam wrote:
> On 14:39:14 May 04, Jean-michel Bessot wrote:
> > Hi
> > 
> > I have a problem to start jackd to use my audiophile 2496 card.
> > 
> > $ jackd -d sun  
> > jackd 0.109.10
> > [copyright information]
> > JACK compiled with System V SHM support.
> > loading driver ..
> > Enhanced3DNow! detected
> > SSE2 detected
> > sun_driver: setting capture parameters failed: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > cannot load driver module sun
> > no message buffer overruns
> > 
> > I use the Openbsd 4.3 -current (GENERIC#841 i386) and  the envy driver 
> > is loaded.
> > 
> > $ dmesg | grep envy
> > envy0 at pci4 dev 6 function 0 "IC Ensemble Envy24 I/O Ctrlr" rev 0x02: irq 
> > 10
> > audio0 at envy0
> > 
> > When I use mplayer -ao sun, sound "works" but I need jack to play music.
> > 
> > How can I resolve this problem ?
> 
> What makes you imagine that jack is necessary to play music?
> 
> jack is needed only for advanced DAW work.

imo, it's the best (actually, the only even halfway reasonable) sound
server for FOSS today.  the developers have a goal, and they are working
toward that goal and keeping the code readable along the way.
none of the other sound servers have been able to do that.  artsd got
bloated and abandoned, esd and pulse sources are a mess and they both
have serious lack of focus.

jack is perfectly fine for casual desktop usage.  I even wrote
a jack backend for SDL so I can play games and watch youtube at the
same time ;P

> For playing music on OpenBSD
> with mplayer all you need is the sun audio driver and mplayer stock
> package comes packaged with it and it "just works".

yeah, but, what if you want to have two mplayer's running at the
same time?

> Does 
> 
> # cat /bsd > /dev/audio
> 
> create any noise?
> 
> -Girish
> 

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

Re: Doubt about license

[Otto Moerbeek]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 08:32:43PM +0300, Lars Nood??n wrote:

> Marco Peereboom wrote:
> 
> > public domain is not properly defined in the framework of the law.
> 
> http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/public_domain/
> 
> Public domain is very clearly defined by law: it is the absence of
> copyright.  If it's public domain, then you and everyone else can do
> *anything* to it or with it.


The cited document is US only, and does not talk about putting
documents into the public domain by the author at the moment of
publishing. It mostly talks about work becoming public domain after
some period of time after publishing. 

-Otto

> 
> However, what you were getting at in an earlier post was the difficulty
> in identifying what has or has not entered the public domain.
> 
> The purpose of copyright is not what the MPAA/RIAA/MSFTers will have you
> believe.  The purpose is "To promote the progress of science and useful
> arts..."
> http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlei.html#section8
> 
> Given the problems nowadays with the drift and contradictory efforts by
> MS/MPAA/RIAA/Disney Corp and a generally litigious society (at least in
> the US) extra clarification is needed.  Hence the licenses.  The ISC
> license bootstraps of that promotion of science and useful arts by
> skipping that waiting period and launching the code directly into an
> approximation of the public domain.
> 
> -Lars

Re: Doubt about license

[Ted Unangst]

On 5/4/08, Pieter Verberne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Pulic domain also says "do with it whatever you like". I really don't
>  know about the importance of the disclaimer. Maybe it depends on
>  the country you live in. I'm a minimalist is some respects, and I think
>  you should not put anything in a license file that is not necessary:

search for implied warranty.

Re: Jack, sun and envy problem

[Jean-michel Bessot]

It works with the version in ports and the -i 0 option, not -i 12 .

Thx for your help .

-- 
Jean-michel Bessot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Doubt about license

[Ted Unangst]

On 5/4/08, Pieter Verberne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Keeping authorship for a resume sounds like a somewhat good reason
>  to me. I think you could also use public domain code for a resume,
>  but that may have it's downsides. My question is something like: is
>  keeping copyright worth putting the annoying license in every file?

yes.
>  > All files require a copyright and license notice.
>
> True, but is the name of the license, or the name + URL enough? Than you
>  could replace the whole ISC license with just the line like:
>  # This file is ISC-licensed.

Copyright law is complicated enough without attempting to include the
license by reference.  Unless you can prove that the above sentence
has the exact same legal standing as the full text, it's a no go.

Re: Doubt about license

[Marco Peereboom]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 07:03:09PM +0200, Pieter Verberne wrote:
> > (but going by your name you are just being dutch!).
> I don't understand.. Yes I'm dutch, is this a joke/saying?

Yes and no :-)

The dutch are notoriously known to argue for arguments sake.  That is
what I was getting at.

Beware of the yellow threat!

Re: Jack, sun and envy problem

[Tom Rosso]

Jacob Meuser wrote:

you DON'T want to run jackd as root.  anything connecting to jackd will
have to run as root.  and no, it does not improve performance.



I've experienced permissions-related problems with Jack before, and 
meant this as a troubleshooting step.  Obviously you don't want to try 
to use audio applications with jackd running as root.

Re: Jack, sun and envy problem

[Jacob Meuser]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 09:10:04AM -0600, Tom Rosso wrote:
> Jean-michel Bessot wrote:
> >$ jackd -d sun  
> 
> This could be a permissions issue.

huh?  only if he doesn't have permissions on /dev/audio, and in that case,
would have seen a different message.

"something's not working?  try running it as root!" is a BAD BAD BAD way
to debug problems.

>  Does Jack initialize correctly if 
> you run it as root?

you DON'T want to run jackd as root.  anything connecting to jackd will
have to run as root.  and no, it does not improve performance.

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

Re: Jack, sun and envy problem

[Jacob Meuser]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 02:39:14PM +0200, Jean-michel Bessot wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I have a problem to start jackd to use my audiophile 2496 card.
> 
> $ jackd -d sun  
> jackd 0.109.10
> [copyright information]
> JACK compiled with System V SHM support.
> loading driver ..
> Enhanced3DNow! detected
> SSE2 detected
> sun_driver: setting capture parameters failed: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

jackd uses stereo 16-bit linear pcm @ 48000 Hz by default.  envy(4) can't
do that.

you need something like

$ jackd -d sun -i 12 -o 10 -w 32

that's from the 'Playback and record data formats' section of envy(4).
I don't have any envy(4) devices to confirm :(

you can see the sun driver's options with 'jackd -d sun --help'.

I would also suggest updating the jack package.  there have been some
fixes since 0.109.10.  0.111.2 is in the -current ports tree.  with
0.109.10, you'll probably not want to run in full-duplex mode, so in
the above instead of -i 12, use -i 0.

of course, if anyone has issues with jack, please contact me.  I am trying
to get all patches in and all sun bugs out for the 1.0 release, which
they say isn't just too far off.

> cannot load driver module sun
> no message buffer overruns
> 
> I use the Openbsd 4.3 -current (GENERIC#841 i386) and  the envy driver 
> is loaded.
> 
> $ dmesg | grep envy
> envy0 at pci4 dev 6 function 0 "IC Ensemble Envy24 I/O Ctrlr" rev 0x02: irq 10
> audio0 at envy0
> 
> When I use mplayer -ao sun, sound "works" but I need jack to play music.
> 
> How can I resolve this problem ?
> 
> Sorry for my poor english.
> bye
> 
> -- 
> Jean-michel Bessot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> 

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
SDF Public Access UNIX System - http://sdf.lonestar.org

Re: Doubt about license

[Lars Noodén]

Marco Peereboom wrote:

> public domain is not properly defined in the framework of the law.

http://www.copyright.cornell.edu/public_domain/

Public domain is very clearly defined by law: it is the absence of
copyright.  If it's public domain, then you and everyone else can do
*anything* to it or with it.

However, what you were getting at in an earlier post was the difficulty
in identifying what has or has not entered the public domain.

The purpose of copyright is not what the MPAA/RIAA/MSFTers will have you
believe.  The purpose is "To promote the progress of science and useful
arts..."
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articlei.html#section8

Given the problems nowadays with the drift and contradictory efforts by
MS/MPAA/RIAA/Disney Corp and a generally litigious society (at least in
the US) extra clarification is needed.  Hence the licenses.  The ISC
license bootstraps of that promotion of science and useful arts by
skipping that waiting period and launching the code directly into an
approximation of the public domain.

-Lars

Re: Is NV supposed to be SLOW?

[Nick Holland]

Marco Peereboom wrote:
> Yes.  NVIDIA refuses to make a useful open source driver.  It is barely
> functional and it generally sucks really really bad.  Stay away from
> NVIDIA when doing open source.

I'm going to express a very small and highly qualified exception to this
comment...

I have found that OLD nvidia cards (16M-ish ones) work pretty darned
well with the base nv driver for OpenBSD.  I'd say "just worked", other
than in a multi-headed config, it goes a bit stupid and tried to run the
monitors at 2048x1600 or similar absurd resolution (which actually, one
of my monitors DID come up in...shocking the heck out of me and probably
the monitor, too).

So, I'm not going to argue the point on new cutting edge stuff, but on
my old junk, the stock, OpenBSD-provided nv works pretty well.

vga1 at pci1 dev 0 function 0 "NVIDIA GeForce2 MX 100" rev 0xb2
"NVIDIA Vanta" rev 0x15 at pci0 dev 14 function 0 not configured
"NVIDIA Vanta" rev 0x15 at pci0 dev 15 function 0 not configured
(one AGP 1280x1024, two PCI 1280x1024, 1600x1200)

I felt this important to mention because when I was originally building
fluffy, my three-headed system, I was looking for NON-nv cards because
of past discussions, and wasn't having much luck finding non-nv PCI cards.
I finally bought a couple junk, unmarked cards, figured, "let's see what
they do", and they came up GREAT..as nvidia cards using the nv driver.

Granted, my usage is fairly basic.  The only multi-media anything I have
on this system is xmms.  When flipping rapidly between screens, I see
the screen redraw ('specially on my PCI-based 1600x1200 screen), but it
is no big deal.  Much bigger problem is moving the mouse from the far
right hand screen to the far left hand screen or visa-versa...and that
is a (dis) function of my cluttered desk, not the video driver. :)

Nick.

Re: OpenBSD 4.3 and Xorg resolution 1280x800?

[Predrag Punosevac]

rancor wrote:
Try changing the refreshing rates to something higher.
as in


Section "Monitor"

   #DisplaySize  320   240 # mm
   Identifier   "Monitor0"
   VendorName   "DEL"
   ModelName"DELL E773c"
### Comment all HorizSync and VertRefresh values to use DDC:
   HorizSync30 - 70
   VertRefresh  50.0 - 120.0
   Option  "DPMS"
EndSection


You can use xrandr as well to play with the resolutions without the need 
to restart X server.


Best,
Predrag

Hi

I'm trying to get the screen resolution to working in X. I always got
1024x768 but I want 1280x800

Worth to mention is that I'm running OpenBSD as a guest with Virtualbox 1.6
on a Vista 32-bit host.

As screen device am I using * Generic VESA compatible and in Subsection
"Display" for each depth am I only using "Modes   "1280x800""

Any ideas?

Regards rancor

Re: Doubt about license

[Pieter Verberne]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 11:12:04AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote:
> public domain is not properly defined in the framework of the law.

True (in the Nederlands), I recently wrote a letter to the Ministry
of Justice about dutch copyright law wich does not give an author
the possibility to put a work in public domain at all. If they could
change that;) (I'm just curious about there response, not expecting to
much)

> I really have no idea what you are arguing
Most important for me is: I'm just curious about your opinions.. So I go
into discussion.

> (but going by your name you are just being dutch!).
I don't understand.. Yes I'm dutch, is this a joke/saying?

Re: Doubt about license

[Pieter Verberne]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 04:31:11PM +, Stuart Henderson wrote:
> On 2008-05-04, Pieter Verberne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > True, but is the name of the license, or the name + URL enough?
> 
> Anyone can then change the contents of the URL later on. For example:
> domain expires, evil scammers grab it and publish a new license at the
> same URL requiring payment for commercial use.
> 
> Much safer for users if the license is supplied with the code...
> 
> > Than you
> > could replace the whole ISC license with just the line like:
> > # This file is ISC-licensed.
> >
> > This would make one reason for using public domain less; It won't safe
> > lines in textfiles.
> 
> If you were talking about the 300+ lines of GPL I'd understand
> wanting to reduce it. But 13 lines of ISC license - is that really
> a problem?

Alright.. an infinite discussion... Well, the way it's now is also pretty:-)

Re: Doubt about license

[Stuart Henderson]

On 2008-05-04, Pieter Verberne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> True, but is the name of the license, or the name + URL enough?

Anyone can then change the contents of the URL later on. For example:
domain expires, evil scammers grab it and publish a new license at the
same URL requiring payment for commercial use.

Much safer for users if the license is supplied with the code...

> Than you
> could replace the whole ISC license with just the line like:
> # This file is ISC-licensed.
>
> This would make one reason for using public domain less; It won't safe
> lines in textfiles.

If you were talking about the 300+ lines of GPL I'd understand
wanting to reduce it. But 13 lines of ISC license - is that really
a problem?

Re: Doubt about license

[Marco Peereboom]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 05:55:16PM +0200, Pieter Verberne wrote:
> On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 08:09:41AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote:
> > The only section of copyright that isn't surrendered by the ISC license
> > (also often mistakenly called the BSD) is authorship.
> Right.
> 
> > As an example, I like to give away my code for people to study and play
> > with.  The only thing I "demand" is credit for that piece of code.  The
> > reason I do not abandon that right is because at some point in my life I
> > might need to use my open source work as a resume or as a reference.
> Keeping authorship for a resume sounds like a somewhat good reason
> to me. I think you could also use public domain code for a resume,
> but that may have it's downsides. My question is something like: is
> keeping copyright worth putting the annoying license in every file?

Yes.

> 
> > All files require a copyright and license notice.
> True, but is the name of the license, or the name + URL enough? Than you
> could replace the whole ISC license with just the line like:
> # This file is ISC-licensed.

What if there is an updated ISC license?  then which one is it?

> 
> This would make one reason for using public domain less; It won't safe
> lines in textfiles.

public domain is not properly defined in the framework of the law.

I really have no idea what you are arguing (but going by your name you
are just being dutch!).

Re: Is NV supposed to be SLOW?

[Marco Peereboom]

uhm what else is there besides -current?

;-)

On Mon, May 05, 2008 at 02:04:49AM +1000, Sunnz wrote:
> 2008/5/5 Marco Peereboom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > My previous laptop was radeonhd and I might go back to it until noveau
> >  is in enough shape.  Only after coming from radeonhd to go nvidia made
> >  me realize how much better the driver is.
> >
> 
> I see... I take it that you are running -current? Looking at the
> cvs-web, it seems like you need at least 4.3-release, and looking at
> wiki.x.org, it seems like only -current has the decent radeonhd driver
> with 2D acceleration (driver version 1.2.1, for R5xx/RS6xx, both XAA
> and EXA.)... whatever XAA and EXA means?

Re: Jack, sun and envy problem

[Jean-michel Bessot]

On Sun, 4 May 2008 20:27:39 +0530
Girish Venkatachalam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> What makes you imagine that jack is necessary to play music?

Because the driver envy only work natively on jack today
(http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=120791661009255&w=2).
It juste make noise in other software like ogg123.

On Sun, 04 May 2008 09:10:04 -0600
Tom Rosso <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This could be a permissions issue.  Does Jack initialize correctly if 
> you run it as root?
> 
> Tom
> 

It doesn't work when I am root.

-- 
Jean-michel Bessot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Is NV supposed to be SLOW?

[Sunnz]

2008/5/5 Marco Peereboom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> My previous laptop was radeonhd and I might go back to it until noveau
>  is in enough shape.  Only after coming from radeonhd to go nvidia made
>  me realize how much better the driver is.
>

I see... I take it that you are running -current? Looking at the
cvs-web, it seems like you need at least 4.3-release, and looking at
wiki.x.org, it seems like only -current has the decent radeonhd driver
with 2D acceleration (driver version 1.2.1, for R5xx/RS6xx, both XAA
and EXA.)... whatever XAA and EXA means?

Re: Doubt about license

[Pieter Verberne]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 03:29:01PM +0200, Otto Moerbeek wrote:
> On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 12:12:37PM +0200, Pieter Verberne wrote:
> > > But in general, we choose to remain known as author.
> > > That is our privilege for the files we created or modified
> > > extensively. Whatever you choose to do with things you publish is your
> > > decision. 
> > Uhm.. "to remain known as author": sounds vague to me. (maybe because
> > of my english) . However, when you put anything in public domain, you
> > will stay recognized as the (orginal) author. (in most cases). Look at
> > qmail, or public domain Korn shell. There only may by a chance that
> > some autors names are 'lost' sometimes (in redistributions) because
> > of the lack of obligation to mention the authors.
> 
> That is exactly the thing we want to prevent. We create source code
> and want our names to remain in the source. We are proud of what we
> have created. We are proud others find it useful and let them use our
> source code in the way they want to, as long as we are still
> recognized as authors according to copyright law. So we want our names
> to remain in the files, and not just as "common knowledge", which is
> vague and often wrong. 

I don't think that public domain would cause credits to be lost
(often).  Version control, mailing list archives (internet archive,
Wikipedia) keep those credits also. Well, maybe when someone reuses
part of the code...

Re: Is NV supposed to be SLOW?

[Marc Espie]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 10:16:54AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote:
> My previous laptop was radeonhd and I might go back to it until noveau
> is in enough shape.  Only after coming from radeonhd to go nvidia made
> me realize how much better the driver is.

Almost the same, except that my old laptop video card died.

I'm still hoping for nouveau to happen, hopefully, just so that we
can fuck the nvidia morons (like, even if they don't open their specs,
someone can reverse engineer a driver), and also because that laptop is
very nice outside of that gfx card issue.

Re: Doubt about license

[Pieter Verberne]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 08:09:41AM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote:
> The only section of copyright that isn't surrendered by the ISC license
> (also often mistakenly called the BSD) is authorship.
Right.

> As an example, I like to give away my code for people to study and play
> with.  The only thing I "demand" is credit for that piece of code.  The
> reason I do not abandon that right is because at some point in my life I
> might need to use my open source work as a resume or as a reference.
Keeping authorship for a resume sounds like a somewhat good reason
to me. I think you could also use public domain code for a resume,
but that may have it's downsides. My question is something like: is
keeping copyright worth putting the annoying license in every file?

> All files require a copyright and license notice.
True, but is the name of the license, or the name + URL enough? Than you
could replace the whole ISC license with just the line like:
# This file is ISC-licensed.

This would make one reason for using public domain less; It won't safe
lines in textfiles.

Re: Editing C with...

[Nick Holland]

ropers wrote:
> 2008/5/4 Nick Holland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>  "[vim] alters files in unexpected ways", which I consider a
>>  major sin.
> 
> I didn't know that, and cursory googling didn't turn up anything
> enlightening. Could you elaborate?
> 
> Thanks and regards,
> --ropers

It might have been better if I had said, "alters my input", instead
of implying that I edit a file with vim and it gets saved
differently than loaded without my deliberately changing anything.

And yes, tabs and auto indent were some of the things.  I also had
an experience with it auto-inserting line breaks which caused me
large amounts of problem.

All this stuff is there for a reason, and is great for the
intended purposes.  HOWEVER, it's annoying as heck when one's
purposes don't jive with the editor's defaults.  Yes, all those
defaults can be changed, but on the machine I was fighting with
at the time, they were in some very inappropriate for my needs, and
quite unexpected behavior for something I invoked with the command
"vi".  I won't dispute vim is a great editor...I just dislike it
pretending to be vi on some distributions of another OS.  In all
likelihood, it COULD pass as vi, but not with all the options
turned on.

Nick.

Re: Is NV supposed to be SLOW?

[Marco Peereboom]

My previous laptop was radeonhd and I might go back to it until noveau
is in enough shape.  Only after coming from radeonhd to go nvidia made
me realize how much better the driver is.

On Mon, May 05, 2008 at 12:42:44AM +1000, Sunnz wrote:
> 2008/5/4 Marco Peereboom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > It is in this thread:
> >  http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=120926655909874&w=2
> >
> 
> Thanks for the link, so nv itself is developed by nVidia themselves
> and is written to be obscure too... that's another reason for me to
> chuck away my nVidia card!!
> 
> 2008/5/4 Benoit Chesneau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> >  radeonhd work particularly well: fast display without any dri/drm
> >  acceleration yet. Intel is also a good choice when you need
> >  opensources blob free drivers.
> >
> 
> So what is the state of radeonhd like? It is another nv like driver,
> you know, OOS "obscured open source" driver, or a truly supported with
> docs and stuff? And what does Intel uses... if I go Intel does that
> mean I would need to get a whole new motherboard... because as far as
> I know of, they do not yet build delicated graphics card... of course
> Intel boards can be used to build new machines, but then again that
> would support Intel cpu only, right?
> 
> What about via? I have heard that they will be making oss graphic cards?
> 
> -- 
> This e-mail may be confidential. You may not copy, forward,
> distribute, or, use any part of it. If you have received this message
> in error, please delete it from your system and notify the sender
> immediately by return e-mail. The sender does not accept liability for
> any errors, or, omissions. Note, this text has no effective legal
> binding on your part. There is no obligation to abide any or all parts
> of this, just as any texts appended to e-mail on rest of the Internet.
> For more information about disclaimers, please see:
> http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/

Re: Editing C with...

[Dorian Büttner]

Steve Shockley schrieb:


 Had a royal PITA the other day when I misspelled "softdep" in the 
/usr line in fstab, and didn't know how to use ed.




No prob w/o ed :) You can just cat /etc/fstab | grep -v usr >> 
/etc/fstab.new followed by echo '' >> /etc/fstab.new and then 
mv everything to it's correct destination.
From time to time I use such mess to train english kezboard lazouts in 
single user mode.


Cheers,
Dorian

Re: Doubt about license

[Ray Percival]

On May 4, 2008, at 1:14 AM, Pieter Verberne wrote:


On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 03:38:13AM +0530, debian developer wrote:

["bsd vs. GPL"]


Sorry for 'stealing' this thread but I'm not sure if I should make  
a new

thread for this.

I'm wondering what OpenBSD people think about BSD (-like) licenses
versus public domain.


As an admin public domain code could leave me in a bad place. Imagine  
for a minute that I start building a project with it and the project  
turns into something cool and I want to start selling my services  
deploying it or similar things or selling boxes to do whatever it is  
it does. Or even just build a box that does something cool for work  
and they decide to have another business unit do the same thing.


With the current state of OpenBSD licensing I'm in a good spot. I can  
do what I want and if any legal questions about the code arise I have  
a clear and legally well defined argument for why a reasonable person  
would think they could use the code in that way. And some very smart  
people at my back since any questions about my right to do anything I  
want with the code, short of denying those same very smart people  
credit, are also questions about their license and their right to do  
whatever they want with -their- code.  Enlightened self interest is a  
fucking wonderful thing.


By contrast with the GPL there are any number of hoops I need to jump  
through before doing the same thing and history shows us that  
relatively minor missteps result in them getting very ugly with you  
since , in their minds, you doing whatever you want with the code  
without meeting all of their conditions lessens their "freedom". I  
think this also neatly disproves the idea that BSD/ISC style licenses  
put the power in the hands of the coders and GPL puts it in the hand  
of the users. BSD/ISC makes the coders and users partners based on  
mutual self interest whereas GPL puts -all- the power in the hands of  
the license holder.


Public domain leaves me in a very bad place indeed. If anybody  
questions my right to use the code in question I have no real way to  
build a strong case that a reasonable person would think they could  
use the code in that way. Or at least it makes it a fuck of a lot  
harder than simply pointing at the license. This is because public  
domain is meant to be what happens to any work -after- the copyright  
expires. In the case of works that have passed into the public domain  
there is a clear and legally well defined trail of when it was in  
copyright, when it passed into the public domain, and where it came  
from. Which means that if, for example, I want to republish the  
original Tarzan nobody can come after me because it's trivial to  
prove that I have the right to do so. Not so with works placed  
directly into the public domain  because doing so means that there is  
no legally well defined way to determine where it came from so  
anybody who can modify the timestamp on a file can claim to be the  
original author.


What does the ISC license actually do?


It buys the end user a legally well defined right to use the code  
that places him in partnership with the original author if any legal  
issues arise. As opposed to the lack of any legally well defined  
right to use it that results from works placed directly into the  
public domain or the mutually antagonistic relationship with the  
original author the GPL creates. And that's a fuck of lot.

Re: Is NV supposed to be SLOW?

[Sunnz]

2008/5/4 Marco Peereboom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> It is in this thread:
>  http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=120926655909874&w=2
>

Thanks for the link, so nv itself is developed by nVidia themselves
and is written to be obscure too... that's another reason for me to
chuck away my nVidia card!!

2008/5/4 Benoit Chesneau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
>  radeonhd work particularly well: fast display without any dri/drm
>  acceleration yet. Intel is also a good choice when you need
>  opensources blob free drivers.
>

So what is the state of radeonhd like? It is another nv like driver,
you know, OOS "obscured open source" driver, or a truly supported with
docs and stuff? And what does Intel uses... if I go Intel does that
mean I would need to get a whole new motherboard... because as far as
I know of, they do not yet build delicated graphics card... of course
Intel boards can be used to build new machines, but then again that
would support Intel cpu only, right?

What about via? I have heard that they will be making oss graphic cards?

-- 
This e-mail may be confidential. You may not copy, forward,
distribute, or, use any part of it. If you have received this message
in error, please delete it from your system and notify the sender
immediately by return e-mail. The sender does not accept liability for
any errors, or, omissions. Note, this text has no effective legal
binding on your part. There is no obligation to abide any or all parts
of this, just as any texts appended to e-mail on rest of the Internet.
For more information about disclaimers, please see:
http://www.goldmark.org/jeff/stupid-disclaimers/

Re: Jack, sun and envy problem

[Tom Rosso]

Jean-michel Bessot wrote:
$ jackd -d sun  


This could be a permissions issue.  Does Jack initialize correctly if 
you run it as root?


Tom

Re: mknod fails after wrong arch MAKEDEV

[Paul Pruett]

Isn't /tmp mounted with option nodev, by chance?


Would not explain it failing in /dev

but a good thought.

uhmm on this computer, /tmp is on the root partition, did not make a 
separate mount in fstab for it, ...  yes,

probably should have made a /tmp partition so as to be able to add
options like nodev and nosuid against /tmp,  but that is another story

I looked at my /etc/fstab and  / is not mounted  with nodev
either.

So that is not it.  I think "upgrade" from cdrom would fix the /dev
folder... and replace /sbin/mknod, and replace the kernel and important
userland.

Then I ran the port mergemaster just in case I missed something in /etc...

but the problem persists, so my question, does the operating system use
some kind of protection (other than nodev in /etc/fstab) that might 
prevent mknod from creating devices?  it can create fifos

Re: Jack, sun and envy problem

[Girish Venkatachalam]

On 14:39:14 May 04, Jean-michel Bessot wrote:
> Hi
> 
> I have a problem to start jackd to use my audiophile 2496 card.
> 
> $ jackd -d sun  
> jackd 0.109.10
> [copyright information]
> JACK compiled with System V SHM support.
> loading driver ..
> Enhanced3DNow! detected
> SSE2 detected
> sun_driver: setting capture parameters failed: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> cannot load driver module sun
> no message buffer overruns
> 
> I use the Openbsd 4.3 -current (GENERIC#841 i386) and  the envy driver 
> is loaded.
> 
> $ dmesg | grep envy
> envy0 at pci4 dev 6 function 0 "IC Ensemble Envy24 I/O Ctrlr" rev 0x02: irq 10
> audio0 at envy0
> 
> When I use mplayer -ao sun, sound "works" but I need jack to play music.
> 
> How can I resolve this problem ?

What makes you imagine that jack is necessary to play music?

jack is needed only for advanced DAW work. For playing music on OpenBSD
with mplayer all you need is the sun audio driver and mplayer stock
package comes packaged with it and it "just works".

Does 

# cat /bsd > /dev/audio

create any noise?

-Girish

Re: Editing C with...

[Christian Weisgerber]

Marco Peereboom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I am an old vi rat that finally caved to vim for several reasons.
>   [...]
>   * tab complete commands and filenames in command mode

FWIW, nvi supports file name completion on the colon command line,
you just have to enable it with the filec variable.  While there,
you probably want to set cedit to enable editing of the command-line
history, too.

-- 
Christian "naddy" Weisgerber  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Editing C with...

[Steve Shockley]

Nick Holland wrote:

but I WOULD tell any new user: learn the
base system tools first.


More to the point, have a working knowledge of ed.  Had a royal PITA the 
other day when I misspelled "softdep" in the /usr line in fstab, and 
didn't know how to use ed.



Most modern OSs (with the exception of
Windows, assuming you wish to lump it in with that category) include
a usable editor.


Notepad?  edlin?

Mehr Insolvenzen in den USA

[mr]

Gerne |bersende ich Ihnen meinen Bericht "Mehr Insolvenzen in den USA" von 
gestern als Leseprobe. Falls Sie die Artikel k|nftig (kostenlos) bei 
Vervffentlichung bekommen mvchten, tragen Sie sich bitte auf der Seite 
gewinnbereich.de unter --> Login --> Registrieren ein und klicken dann den URL 
in der Bestdtigungsmail an.

Freundlich gr|_t

Manfred Rouhs

-

3. Mai 2008, 15:40 Uhr:

Mehr Insolvenzen in den USA

Im April haben 92.291 US-Amerikaner einen Antrag auf Verbraucherinsolvenz 
gestellt. Das entspricht einem Anstieg um 48 Prozent gegen|ber dem 
Vorjahreszeitraum. Gegen|ber Mdrz stieg die Anzahl der Antrdge um sieben 
Prozent. Samuel Gerdano, der Leiter des "American Bankruptcy Institute", geht 
davon aus, da_ in 2008 insgesamt mehr als eine Millionen US-B|rger insolvent 
werden. Im vergangenen Jahr waren es noch 850.912 Familien oder Privatpersonen. 
Das entsprach einem Anstieg um 38 Prozent gegen|ber 2006.

Unsere Bewertung: Die Zahlen zeigen kein Abflauen der wirtschaftlichen 
Schwierigkeiten in den USA an. Da der private Konsum rund 70 Prozent der 
amerikanischen Wirtschaftsleistung ausmacht, schldgt eine hohe Zahl von 
Verbraucherinsolvenzen auf das BIP durch.

Re: Doubt about license

[Otto Moerbeek]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 12:12:37PM +0200, Pieter Verberne wrote:

> > > If you put anything in public domain, you'll give up your copyright. So
> > > the next person te distribute your software is allowed to remove your
> > > name from the credits list. I can imagine this sounds like a problem for
> > > some man. But hey, who wrote Qmail? No-one will forget.
> > 
> > If you look at the tree, you'll see that some newly created files are
> > public domain.
> That's good!
> 
> > But in general, we choose to remain known as author.
> > That is our privilege for the files we created or modified
> > extensively. Whatever you choose to do with things you publish is your
> > decision. 
> Uhm.. "to remain known as author": sounds vague to me. (maybe because
> of my english) . However, when you put anything in public domain, you
> will stay recognized as the (orginal) author. (in most cases). Look at
> qmail, or public domain Korn shell. There only may by a chance that
> some autors names are 'lost' sometimes (in redistributions) because
> of the lack of obligation to mention the authors.

That is exactly the thing we want to prevent. We create source code
and want our names to remain in the source. We are proud of what we
have created. We are proud others find it useful and let them use our
source code in the way they want to, as long as we are still
recognized as authors according to copyright law. So we want our names
to remain in the files, and not just as "common knowledge", which is
vague and often wrong. 

> > And you completely forget that a lot of the work done in the tree is
> > small changes to existing, BSD licensed files originally authored by
> > people not working in the tree anymore. We cannot change the license
> > of these files for obvious reasons. 
> Well, I not really forget. I was just talking about new written code.
> 
> > > BTW, how many times is the BSD license in the source repository? I think
> > > it is a filthiness of "$ head [sourcefile]".
> > 
> > IIRC copyright law requires the license to be put in every source
> > file. 
> 
> Uhm, dunno what IIRC is.. But wouldn't it be just great to put anything
> like this in a file's header? :
> # This file is in public domain
> or even better:
> # public domain
> 
> So IIRC requires the full license? That's a shame, it would be nicer to
> use the license's name only.

IIRC == If I remember correctly.

Also, something in my memory tells me the concept of public domain is
not as well defined and internationally coherent as copyright law, but
my memory might be playing tricks with me. 

-Otto

Re: Editing C with...

[Marco Peereboom]

He is eluding to things like smart tabs and auto indent.  Those are
disabled by default on vim and when programming they are both a curse and
a gift from the gods.  I'll admit to having spend more than a few
minutes fine tuning that.

I am an old vi rat that finally caved to vim for several reasons.
Let me mention just a few:
  * ctrl-p (autocomplete of a word)
  * ctrl-v (visual blocks)
  * split
  * spelling check
  * tab complete commands and filenames in command mode
  * incremental and highlighted search
  * tabs
  * colors, yes I said it!

I can work just fine in vi but I gain a lot of productivity when using
vim.

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 02:34:27PM +0200, ropers wrote:
> 2008/5/4 Nick Holland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >  "[vim] alters files in unexpected ways", which I consider a
> >  major sin.
> 
> I didn't know that, and cursory googling didn't turn up anything
> enlightening. Could you elaborate?
> 
> Thanks and regards,
> --ropers

Re: Doubt about license

[Marco Peereboom]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 12:12:37PM +0200, Pieter Verberne wrote:
> > But in general, we choose to remain known as author.
> > That is our privilege for the files we created or modified
> > extensively. Whatever you choose to do with things you publish is your
> > decision. 
> Uhm.. "to remain known as author": sounds vague to me. (maybe because
> of my english) . However, when you put anything in public domain, you
> will stay recognized as the (orginal) author. (in most cases). Look at
> qmail, or public domain Korn shell. There only may by a chance that
> some autors names are 'lost' sometimes (in redistributions) because
> of the lack of obligation to mention the authors.

The only section of copyright that isn't surrendered by the ISC license
(also often mistakenly called the BSD) is authorship.

As an example, I like to give away my code for people to study and play
with.  The only thing I "demand" is credit for that piece of code.  The
reason I do not abandon that right is because at some point in my life I
might need to use my open source work as a resume or as a reference.

On the other hand I do not like to be coerced into anything.  Especially
under the cloak of charity.  The GPL protects the user from the author
and in my world that is backwards.

> 
> > And you completely forget that a lot of the work done in the tree is
> > small changes to existing, BSD licensed files originally authored by
> > people not working in the tree anymore. We cannot change the license
> > of these files for obvious reasons. 
> Well, I not really forget. I was just talking about new written code.

The ISC license is the license of choice for newly written OpenBSD code.
There are some others that are compatible enough that are allowed as
well.

> 
> > > BTW, how many times is the BSD license in the source repository? I think
> > > it is a filthiness of "$ head [sourcefile]".
> > 
> > IIRC copyright law requires the license to be put in every source
> > file. 
> 
> Uhm, dunno what IIRC is.. But wouldn't it be just great to put anything
> like this in a file's header? :
> # This file is in public domain
> or even better:
> # public domain
> 
> So IIRC requires the full license? That's a shame, it would be nicer to
> use the license's name only.A

All files require a copyright and license notice.  There have been many
examples where files were borrowed from other places and then people
lost track as to where it came from.  Not having a license makes that
file 100% copyrighted.  If a file has no license one is NOT allowed to:
  * copy
  * modify
  * distribute

So in an open source project that is really really bad.

Re: Is NV supposed to be SLOW?

[Marco Peereboom]

It is in this thread:
http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-misc&m=120926655909874&w=2

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 01:59:14AM -0300, Nenhum_de_Nos wrote:
> On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 8:35 PM, Marco Peereboom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Just a few days ago I answered this question.  Simply look for it.
> 
>  if you could tell me the email subject. I've looked for every mail
> from [EMAIL PROTECTED] in the misc (from gmail's search options) and
> found none nvidia reletad (apart from this). may be me being
> unfortunate.
> 
> no luck also from
> http://www.google.com/custom?q=nvidia&hl=en&client=pub-1916336824448304&cof=FORID:1%3BGL:1%3BLBGC:336699%3BLC:%23ff%3BVLC:%23663399%3BGFNT:%23ff%3BGIMP:%23ff%3BDIV:%23336699%3B&domains=openbsd.monkey.org&sitesearch=openbsd.monkey.org&oe=ISO-8859-1&start=10&sa=N
> 
> :(
> 
> if you for any reason (regardless) can't say, no problem.
> 
> thanks anyway,
> 
> matheus
> 
> >  On Sat, May 03, 2008 at 05:47:57PM -0300, Nenhum_de_Nos wrote:
> >  > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Marco Peereboom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> > wrote:
> >  > > Yes.  NVIDIA refuses to make a useful open source driver.  It is barely
> >  > >  functional and it generally sucks really really bad.  Stay away from
> >  > >  NVIDIA when doing open source.
> >  >
> >  > by any means this is criticism, just for information only.
> >  >
> >  > so, for open source should I look for what in graphics subject ?
> >  > I had bad time using ATi some time ago so I bought nVidia. but there
> >  > is no luck in running 64bits FreeBSD on it :(
> >  >
> >  > if you have any info on this please :)
> >  >
> >  > thanks,
> >  >
> >  > matheus
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > --
> >  > We will call you cygnus,
> >  > The God of balance you shall be
> >  >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> We will call you cygnus,
> The God of balance you shall be

Jack, sun and envy problem

[Jean-michel Bessot]

Hi

I have a problem to start jackd to use my audiophile 2496 card.

$ jackd -d sun  
jackd 0.109.10
[copyright information]
JACK compiled with System V SHM support.
loading driver ..
Enhanced3DNow! detected
SSE2 detected
sun_driver: setting capture parameters failed: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cannot load driver module sun
no message buffer overruns

I use the Openbsd 4.3 -current (GENERIC#841 i386) and  the envy driver 
is loaded.

$ dmesg | grep envy
envy0 at pci4 dev 6 function 0 "IC Ensemble Envy24 I/O Ctrlr" rev 0x02: irq 10
audio0 at envy0

When I use mplayer -ao sun, sound "works" but I need jack to play music.

How can I resolve this problem ?

Sorry for my poor english.
bye

-- 
Jean-michel Bessot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Re: Editing C with...

[ropers]

2008/5/4 Nick Holland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>  "[vim] alters files in unexpected ways", which I consider a
>  major sin.

I didn't know that, and cursory googling didn't turn up anything
enlightening. Could you elaborate?

Thanks and regards,
--ropers

Re: mplayer & snapshot install

[Stuart Henderson]

On 2008-05-04, Mihai Popescu B.S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Did anyone actually installed and tried to use mplayer on a snapshot install?
>
> I've installed OpenBSD 4.3 from snapshots

Then you haven't installed OpenBSD 4.3, but a -current snapshot.

> When I run mplayer, i get this - mplayer: can't load library 'libjack.so.0.0'

Fixed in -current, the package snapshots will catch up sometime.
Alternatively build mplayer from source, or (as you found) install
jack.

Please send ports problems to ports@ not [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: Doubt about license

[Pieter Verberne]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 01:46:49PM +0200, Almir Karic wrote:
> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Pieter Verberne
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >  Uhm, dunno what IIRC is.. But wouldn't it be just great to put anything
> >  like this in a file's header? :
> >  # This file is in public domain
> >  or even better:
> >  # public domain
> >
> >  So IIRC requires the full license? That's a shame, it would be nicer to
> >  use the license's name only.
> 
> heh, IIRC == If I Recall/Remember Correctly

:-)

Re: Doubt about license

[Almir Karic]

On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 12:12 PM, Pieter Verberne
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Uhm, dunno what IIRC is.. But wouldn't it be just great to put anything
>  like this in a file's header? :
>  # This file is in public domain
>  or even better:
>  # public domain
>
>  So IIRC requires the full license? That's a shame, it would be nicer to
>  use the license's name only.

heh, IIRC == If I Recall/Remember Correctly



-- 
For far too long, power has been concentrated in the hands of "root"
and his "wheel" oligarchy. We have instituted a dictatorship of the
users. All system administration functions will be handled by the
People's Committee for Democratically Organizing the System (PC-DOS).

Re: mknod fails after wrong arch MAKEDEV

[Miod Vallat]

Isn't /tmp mounted with option nodev, by chance?

mknod fails after wrong arch MAKEDEV

[ppruett]

on one amd64 computer
Somehow mknod will not accept device name, but it can create a fifo

works on a similar amd64 computer w/ same arch. so it was likely
it was something like this that did it:

The screw up,
on an amd64 4.3beta, in an accident, snafu,
I copied the i386 MAKEDEV to /dev and thus ruined /dev when doing MAKEDEV 
all because MAKEDEV deleted all then could not make properly...


To fix I booted off a cdrom and did an upgrade, thus fixing /dev
OKAY fine I got all working, never used MAKEDEV or mknod till much 
later after may 1st stable...


OKAY used cdrom for "upgrade" to make the computer 4.3 stable.

needed use mknod to make some dev for a chroot, and mknod failed by 
name...?


so i went to /dev and out of curiosity did the MAKEDEV all
and FUBAR, it erased /dev/* and could not remake...
So had to reboot with stable cdrom and let it do MAKEDEV
while doing "upgrade"

erasing all of /dev and doing upgrade from cdrom again does not
really fix issue, can't use mknod




QUESTION, is openbsd 4.3 doing some kind of policing on mknod?
I googled a situation were SELinux could prevent mknod from working
in that world.?

example on this screwed machine if I change to say, /tmp

 cd /tmp
 mknod -m 666 zero c 2 12

the result is

  ksh: mknod: zero: Invalid argument


and
  cd /tmp
  /dev/MAKEDEV std


the result is

sh: [1]: mknod: console: Invalid argument
sh: [1]: mknod: tty: Invalid argument
sh: [1]: mknod: mem: Invalid argument
sh: [1]: mknod: kmem: Invalid argument
sh: [1]: mknod: null: Invalid argument
sh: [1]: mknod: zero: Invalid argument
sh: [1]: mknod: stdin: Invalid argument
sh: [1]: mknod: stdout: Invalid argument
sh: [1]: mknod: stderr: Invalid argument
sh: [1]: mknod: ksyms: Invalid argument
sh: [1]: mknod: drum: Invalid argument
sh: [1]: mknod: klog: Invalid argument
sh: [1]: mknod: xf86: Invalid argument
chgrp: mem: No such file or directory
chgrp: kmem: No such file or directory
chgrp: ksyms: No such file or directory
chgrp: drum: No such file or directory
chgrp: console: No such file or directory
chgrp: tty: No such file or directory
chgrp: null: No such file or directory
chgrp: zero: No such file or directory
chgrp: stdin: No such file or directory
chgrp: stdout: No such file or directory
chgrp: stderr: No such file or directory
chgrp: klog: No such file or directory
chgrp: xf86: No such file or directory

Re: mplayer & snapshot install

[Mihai Popescu B.S.]

Finally I found the project's webpage. The release package is jack-
not libjack-. In the snapshots packages one can find jack- and install
fine.

Then mplayer is running fine. Note that jack- package is not listed in
Application Packages link on the openbsd.org.

Shouldn't mplayer package install it as a dependency?

On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Mihai Popescu B.S. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>  Did anyone actually installed and tried to use mplayer on a snapshot install?
>
>  I've installed OpenBSD 4.3 from snapshots and then mplayer package (of
>  course, from snapshot pacakges.)
>
>  When I run mplayer, i get this - mplayer: can't load library 'libjack.so.0.0'
>
>  Already searched the web, and my directories also: there is no libjack
>  on my disk and the web is not so rich in infos about it.
>
>  Some ideas are welcome.
>  Thanks.

Re: Is NV supposed to be SLOW?

[Benoit Chesneau]

On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 7:48 AM, Sunnz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  stuff... is ATi really the way to go, if you just want a straight
>  forward desktop? Have ATi (or anyone) really got their docs going
>  without NDA, and are there actually exists drivers for them in the
>  latest release of OpenBSD. (4.3-release)
>
>  I mean, while I do want to keep as much hardware as possible, I can
>  still afford to buy one or two components, if they are actually truly
>  supporting OSS, it is a form of voting with my wallet I guess.
>
>

radeonhd work particularly well: fast display without any dri/drm
acceleration yet. Intel is also a good choice when you need
opensources blob free drivers.

- benoit

mplayer & snapshot install

[Mihai Popescu B.S.]

Hello,

Did anyone actually installed and tried to use mplayer on a snapshot install?

I've installed OpenBSD 4.3 from snapshots and then mplayer package (of
course, from snapshot pacakges.)

When I run mplayer, i get this - mplayer: can't load library 'libjack.so.0.0'

Already searched the web, and my directories also: there is no libjack
on my disk and the web is not so rich in infos about it.

Some ideas are welcome.
Thanks.

Re: Doubt about license

[Pieter Verberne]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 10:44:07AM +0200, Otto Moerbeek wrote:
> On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 10:14:06AM +0200, Pieter Verberne wrote:
> > I'm wondering what OpenBSD people think about BSD (-like) licenses
> > versus public domain.
> > 
> > Pulic domain also says "do with it whatever you like". I really don't
> > know about the importance of the disclaimer. Maybe it depends on
> > the country you live in. I'm a minimalist is some respects, and I think
> > you should not put anything in a license file that is not necessary:
> > [quote]
> > ...we favor licenses that are both clear and concise and, most
> > importantly, that don't require a lawyer to interpret.
> >   --todd ( http://9fans.net/archive/2003/06/282 )
> > [/quote]
> > 
> > If you put anything in public domain, you'll give up your copyright. So
> > the next person te distribute your software is allowed to remove your
> > name from the credits list. I can imagine this sounds like a problem for
> > some man. But hey, who wrote Qmail? No-one will forget.
> 
> If you look at the tree, you'll see that some newly created files are
> public domain.
That's good!

> But in general, we choose to remain known as author.
> That is our privilege for the files we created or modified
> extensively. Whatever you choose to do with things you publish is your
> decision. 
Uhm.. "to remain known as author": sounds vague to me. (maybe because
of my english) . However, when you put anything in public domain, you
will stay recognized as the (orginal) author. (in most cases). Look at
qmail, or public domain Korn shell. There only may by a chance that
some autors names are 'lost' sometimes (in redistributions) because
of the lack of obligation to mention the authors.

> And you completely forget that a lot of the work done in the tree is
> small changes to existing, BSD licensed files originally authored by
> people not working in the tree anymore. We cannot change the license
> of these files for obvious reasons. 
Well, I not really forget. I was just talking about new written code.

> > BTW, how many times is the BSD license in the source repository? I think
> > it is a filthiness of "$ head [sourcefile]".
> 
> IIRC copyright law requires the license to be put in every source
> file. 

Uhm, dunno what IIRC is.. But wouldn't it be just great to put anything
like this in a file's header? :
# This file is in public domain
or even better:
# public domain

So IIRC requires the full license? That's a shame, it would be nicer to
use the license's name only.

Re: Doubt about license

[Marc Espie]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 03:38:13AM +0530, debian developer wrote:
> 1. BSD license is completely free. No one needs to give back changes
> forcibly(the GPL way), hence this is completely free.
> If what i hear is correct, there are companies(Microsoft) which
> take BSD code (network stack i hear) and made it proprietary by not
> giving back anything. What i don't understand is are we not loosing
> anything in this case?? I can understand that there are many more
> companies which have used the code(Apple) and given back but there are
> also opposite ends...

No, nothing is lost.

A way to look at this which I like more and more: people can still do
`bad' things with code under the BSD licence, like extend it and not
give back their changes. They are free to do so. The BSD licence does not
steal your freedom to make ethical choices about code.

On the other hand, the GPL makes half of the ethical choice for you: you want
to use the code, you have to give back.  The only way not to give back is
to not use the code (or, well, you can make a bigger ethical choice of
using the code and lying about it).

OpenBSD 4.3 and Xorg resolution 1280x800?

[rancor]

Hi

I'm trying to get the screen resolution to working in X. I always got
1024x768 but I want 1280x800

Worth to mention is that I'm running OpenBSD as a guest with Virtualbox 1.6
on a Vista 32-bit host.

As screen device am I using * Generic VESA compatible and in Subsection
"Display" for each depth am I only using "Modes   "1280x800""

Any ideas?

Regards rancor

Re: Editing C with...

[Marc Balmer]

Am 03.05.2008 um 19:56 schrieb Jordi Espasa Clofent:

> Yes, I know, it's completely a dumb question; but I'm curious about  
> it.
>
> I'm just learning C applied in networking area and I wonder what  
> editor is preferred by OpenBSD developers.

I am using two editors on a regular base: vi that is in base and nedit  
from ports.

[demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which 
had a name of smime.p7s]

Re: Doubt about license

[Otto Moerbeek]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 10:14:06AM +0200, Pieter Verberne wrote:

> On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 03:38:13AM +0530, debian developer wrote:
> > ["bsd vs. GPL"]
> 
> Sorry for 'stealing' this thread but I'm not sure if I should make a new
> thread for this.
> 
> I'm wondering what OpenBSD people think about BSD (-like) licenses
> versus public domain.
> 
> What does the ISC license actually do?
>  It keeps your copyright (so you can change the license later, but I
>  guess you won't),
>  it says: do with it whatever you want,
>  it says: don't blame me for anything.
> 
> Pulic domain also says "do with it whatever you like". I really don't
> know about the importance of the disclaimer. Maybe it depends on
> the country you live in. I'm a minimalist is some respects, and I think
> you should not put anything in a license file that is not necessary:
> [quote]
> ...we favor licenses that are both clear and concise and, most
> importantly, that don't require a lawyer to interpret.
>   --todd ( http://9fans.net/archive/2003/06/282 )
> [/quote]
> 
> If you put anything in public domain, you'll give up your copyright. So
> the next person te distribute your software is allowed to remove your
> name from the credits list. I can imagine this sounds like a problem for
> some man. But hey, who wrote Qmail? No-one will forget.

If you look at the tree, you'll see that some newly created files are
public domain. But in general, we choose to remain known as author.
That is our privilege for the files we created or modified
extensively. Whatever you choose to do with things you publish is your
decision. 

And you completely forget that a lot of the work done in the tree is
small changes to existing, BSD licensed files originally authored by
people not working in the tree anymore. We cannot change the license
of these files for obvious reasons. 

> BTW, how many times is the BSD license in the source repository? I think
> it is a filthiness of "$ head [sourcefile]".

IIRC copyright law requires the license to be put in every source
file. 

-Otto

Re: PF and states of connections with same src port

[Jordi Espasa Clofent]

It's related to timeout options.
man pf.conf(5), Options sections, timeouts.

By default, pf offers to you a three 'lists' of timeouts values: 
Conservative, Normal and Aggressive.


If you want to drop completely the connections states early, you can use 
Aggressive staff. But PF is extremely flexible: you also can configure 
every timeout value according your specific needs.


I recommend the reading of this precious resource: 
http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20060927091645


--
Thanks,
Jordi Espasa Clofent

Re: Doubt about license

[Pieter Verberne]

On Sun, May 04, 2008 at 03:38:13AM +0530, debian developer wrote:
> ["bsd vs. GPL"]

Sorry for 'stealing' this thread but I'm not sure if I should make a new
thread for this.

I'm wondering what OpenBSD people think about BSD (-like) licenses
versus public domain.

What does the ISC license actually do?
 It keeps your copyright (so you can change the license later, but I
 guess you won't),
 it says: do with it whatever you want,
 it says: don't blame me for anything.

Pulic domain also says "do with it whatever you like". I really don't
know about the importance of the disclaimer. Maybe it depends on
the country you live in. I'm a minimalist is some respects, and I think
you should not put anything in a license file that is not necessary:
[quote]
...we favor licenses that are both clear and concise and, most
importantly, that don't require a lawyer to interpret.
  --todd ( http://9fans.net/archive/2003/06/282 )
[/quote]

If you put anything in public domain, you'll give up your copyright. So
the next person te distribute your software is allowed to remove your
name from the credits list. I can imagine this sounds like a problem for
some man. But hey, who wrote Qmail? No-one will forget.

BTW, how many times is the BSD license in the source repository? I think
it is a filthiness of "$ head [sourcefile]".

Pieter Verberne