Re: GPL version 4
I'd like to present GPL version 10^100^100! (that's not an exclaimation, that's a factorial.) Over the years, clauses have been _removed_ from BSD-like licenses. The GPL keeps getting things _added_. *insert some sort of wisdom here about how this means BSD-like is better* Reading (and actually understanding) the GPL could easily drive a sane man, with no drug abuse or family history of mental illness, completely insane due to its ever-increasing complexity. -- Travers Buda
which to donate? (WAS: Re: problems with Areca ARC-1200)
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 10:06 PM, Ryan Corder [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, is it the firmware? the definition in pcidevs? I'm just baffled as to why the card shows up but the drives don't. I really, really don't want to keep Linux on this machine, so _any_ help is greatly appreciated. Ultimately, the solution to my problem was to buy the next step up card in Areca's line, the ARC-1210. I'm happy to report that it is working flawlessly. The flip side is that I've had quite the expensive experiment going here. I am now the owner of two 2-port PCIe RAID cards -- one that is known not to work with OpenBSD and one that should work but maybe needs some play time from the developers. I would like to sell one and donate the other. Which one should I donate to the OpenBSD devs and where should I sent it? 1. 3ware 9650SE-2LP (PCIe x8 2-port SATA) RAID card, or 2. Areca ARC-1200 rev. B (PCIe x1 2-port SATA) RAID card. both are fanless, but the Areca is almost half the size of the 3ware. If that makes any difference whatsoever... later. ryanc -- Ryan Corder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: in-kernel pppoe issue with username/password length
First and foremost because i've try it several times, always end with an error in setspppname. Second, i'm not the only one facing it - http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/729287.html at bottom of page rhade describes what he found. Third - when using guest:guest /ISP default user:pass / everything goes well. I forgot exact length, but when experimenting i think it was ten or twelve /nine is taken from link above/. What else could it be ? Nphchm`kmn ohqln Nr: Marc Balmer Nrmnqmn: Re: in-kernel pppoe issue with username/password length Dn: asd asd Hgop`remn m`: Qpd`, 2008, ^kh 16 21:21:15 EEST * asd asd wrote: First of all I would like to say you hello! I have some problems on setting up a OpenBSD box as gateway for pppoe connection. I'm using a DSL modem running in bridge mode / well, i try to use it :) /. PPPOE username/password are 16 character in length and i believe this is a issue with in-kernel pppoe / only allow 9 character usernames/passwords /, otherwise generate error in setspppname/. My provider ain't gonna help me to change my user and pass lenght because it is illegal to change mode of DSL modem in first place! Using userland pppoe leads to another problems, this time with the not so unfamiliar - No Buffer space avalible. All this experience with buffer space is identical on two PCs - Intel Pentium 2 233mhz on i 440ex with 192MB and another Pentium [EMAIL PROTECTED] on i440bx. NIC's are also the same - one pair rtl8139 and one pair of 3com's 3C905B. No matter how i mix stuff i always get overwhelmed by the 12Mbps of my DSL. Today i setup a [EMAIL PROTECTED] and everything run almost fine, one hour with no problems and then about 20 pings were lost due buffer blah, blah. What powerfull router ei?! No thanks, i will try other alternatives. Question is how to solve problem with user/pass in built-in pppoe and test to see if there is any improvement. Maybe in 4.4 length will be expanded, but on current changelog there is no such info. Appreciate your help... p.s. Sorry but my english is not so good. what makes you think that the pppoe(4) interface has a limit of 9 chars for the username? There is no such limit, I am using a much longer username in my /etc/hostname.pppoe0 file myself.
Re: tcpdump -X
On Tuesday 15 July 2008, GVG GVG wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 3:54 PM, David Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 03:42:58PM +0200, GVG GVG wrote: Use the size of your MTU, which can be found my using ifconfig. -- David Hill Thanks for your prompt reply. Just out of curiosity what's this 'MTU' stands for? MTU stands for Mark T Uemura, otherwise known as mtu@, an OpenBSD developer who has been kind enough to do some fantastic write-ups and interviews on the events and people of the two most recent hackathons. http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=searchmode=thres=method=andsort=timequery=mtu Now, all kidding aside, please look at the length of your question above and compare it to the following URL: http://www.google.com/search?as_q=MTU Yep, the URL is shorter. Answering your own question would have been less typing, a whole lot faster, and far more complete than the simple expansion of an abbreviation given to you in replies. The half dozen idiots posting replies with the correct answer to your easily answered question have done a disservice to both you and everyone else subscribed to this list. Mindlessly blurting out an easily found answer is tantamount to bragging and makes the people doing it look stupid since it shows they failed to think things through. They robbed you of a chance to learn something on your own, they cluttered the mail boxes of thousands of people, and worst of all, they encouraged all the countless other people like you to be lazy. There's nothing wrong with not knowing things, but if you're unwilling to at least try learning and try solving your own problems *before* asking for help, then you obviously don't respect the time people commit to writing software and helping others on these lists. The correct order of operation is Think, Search, Study, and Try. When you've repeated the first four steps a few times and you're still at a loss for an answer, only then take the fifth step of Asking. It's the tough road to take rather than the easy way out, but in the end, you'll be stronger and better for it. In a similar vein, you might find the following thread enlightening: http://marc.info/?t=12143420236r=1w=2 Particularly: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscm=121434335503622w=2 Yep, this crap happens all the time. It's not just new people showing up on the lists and not knowing the basics, but it's also long time users like Paul and Josh forgetting the end result of being overly helpful. Heck, if you search the list archives, you'll probably find places where *I* have made the exact same mistakes. I may seem like a complete ass for pointing the obvious, but none the less, all of the above are things you, and others, really need to learn and remember. Kind Regards jcr
Re: GPL version 4
Morton Harrow wrote: Let me first introduce myself. My name is Morton Harrow, senior GNU/Linux consultant in the London metropolitan area. I have been around in the Open Source world since the early beginning. I am very happy with the spirit and efforts of the Free Software Foundation (FSF). First ten hits on google show his name is brand new. And there is no reference to specifically him anywhere else. In short, his identity is fake. In other words, he is a troll. # Han
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:01 AM, scar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Marco Peereboom @ 2008/07/16 23:00: Flash is only good for a few things such as naked ladies performing anatomic tricks, dude getting punched in the ding-dong Trogodor the burninator. Nothing makes me happier than visiting a website and having some ad puking its irrelevant content on me. there are a lot of informative and useful videos and documentaries on youtube, and a lot of news or otherwise public service websites utilize youtube for their own video content, as well. *cough* XviD + Vorbis *cough* And no, Flash does not help with content protection (read DRM).
Re: Install VMware 5.5 or 6.0 at OpenBSD 4.3?
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 08:12:15PM -0700, my mail wrote: it's possible to do this? install VMware 5.5 or 6 in OpenBSD 4.3? i have found this link after google, but this for OpenBSD before 2003-10-13. I want using OpenBSD for Desktop for my primary OS and then install Windows XP in VMware. thx Try having a look at qemu. -- viq [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: in-kernel pppoe issue with username/password length
On 2008-07-17, =?windows-1251?B?0O7x5e0gz+Xy6u7i?= [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First and foremost because i've try it several times, always end with an error in setspppname. Second, i'm not the only one facing it - http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/729287.html at bottom of page rhade describes what he found. Third - when using guest:guest /ISP default user:pass / everything goes well. I forgot exact length, but when experimenting i think it was ten or twelve /nine is taken from link above/. What else could it be ? How long's your password?
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
Marco Peereboom wrote: debian users are masturbating amoebas just cannot imagine how could an amoeba jerk off you will certainly get a prize... :-) :-))) : :D On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 07:47:54PM +0100, Nuno Magalh??es wrote: Eheh he's right :-) If you guys get your heads out of your asses and actually read his words with the use of some common sense you might get what he means. It's a balanced opinion. From what i've seen so far in this list, the BSD-crowd *is* a bunch of masturbating monkeys anyway, i get much more decent reasonable answers to my problems in any Debian list, along with constructive criticism. Here it's rtfm and chest-thumping. Flame away boys, so i can gingerly ignore you :) -- Nuno MagalhC#es -- With best regards, Gregory Edigarov
Re: pppoe0 doesn't get ip address - how to reconnect ?
15 July 2008 c. 14:57:58 Henning Brauer wrote: * Xavier Millihs-Lacroix [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-07-15 09:02]: Sometimes when I boot a soekris box (net5501) - OpenBSD 4.3, I didn't get each times an ip address for the pppoe0 link. This is a problem as I can connect to this box only remotely. I didn't find on the documentation how to reconnect automatically if the link goes down. pppoe automagically reconnects. many ISPs have some logic to deny you from opening two ppp sessions, so by the time your box reboots the old sessions has not yet timed out. You can't do all that much but waiting for the old session to expire, pppoe will retry all the time. Search for PPPOE_TERM_UNKNOWN_SESSIONS kernel option. I have such provider, and this option helps a lot. BTW: Is there any point to translate this knob to interface linkN flag? -- Best wishes, Vadim Zhukov
Re: GPL version 4
2008/7/17 Han Boetes [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Morton Harrow wrote: Let me first introduce myself. My name is Morton Harrow, senior GNU/Linux consultant in the London metropolitan area. I have been around in the Open Source world since the early beginning. I am very happy with the spirit and efforts of the Free Software Foundation (FSF). First ten hits on google show his name is brand new. And there is no reference to specifically him anywhere else. In short, his identity is fake. In other words, he is a troll. Sufficiently clueless bragadocious pomposity is indistinguishable from trollery. --ropers
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 05:10:46PM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote: Yes it is. To illustrate the stupidity and pointlessness of this all. Linus is a troll, we know, who cares? insulting anyone is IMHO hardly ever necessary/good, trolling (of known folks, such as linus and rms) is (again IMHO) best ignored.
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
On Wednesday 16 July 2008 18:33, you wrote: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950 Again a mis representation in pulic? --Siju OpenBSD - proudly powered by primates' privates -- Fergus Wilde Chetham's Library Long Millgate Manchester M3 1SB Tel: 0161 834 7961 Fax: 0161 839 5797 http://www.chethams.org.uk
Re: Install VMware 5.5 or 6.0 at OpenBSD 4.3?
--- On Thu, 7/17/08, viq [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: viq [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Install VMware 5.5 or 6.0 at OpenBSD 4.3? Try having a look at qemu. -- viq ok, will try it if i use qemu i still use bridged networking like VMware ? thx
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
I have done just fine without flash for years. For me it is very simple; if your site has flash it means: 1. I suddenly don't care 2. I will not purchase anything from you 3. I'll find alternatives who make my experience better 4. I'll save some time by not watching some retarded video It wouldn't be the first business/site I abandon. It wouldn't be the first site at work that I simply reply to originators saying: sorry can't view the content. Making excuses for flash isn't helping. You can't say: I agree but I use it anyway because I want teh nekid ladies. On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:40:43AM -0400, Jason Beaudoin wrote: snip This guy's day job is at a bank, and they're really into it-- it solves a number of problems for them. So if this is the kind of thing that developers are going to pick up en masse, then it's something that will need to be addressed, else people who won't or can't run Flash will be increasingly marginalized. Flash is only good for a few things such as naked ladies performing anatomic tricks, dude getting punched in the ding-dong Trogodor the burninator. Nothing makes me happier than visiting a website and having some ad puking its irrelevant content on me. What's perplexing to me is that most people sit idle watching the internet as we know it disintegrate in front of their eyes. Allowing themselves to be bombarded with ads. Removing the actual reason for why html exists which is indexing content so that it can be retrieved and used by many. Those people are all ok with being shat on as long as they can watch youtube or $whatever_infantile_site_here. The 14 year old demographic is apparently the dominating one on teh intartubez these days. I for one can't wait to be marginalized. While I agree with you in many respects, I will also acknowledge that there are plenty of legitimate cases where viewing flash content is necessary. This is particularly true in artistic communities (and increasingly so, for the reasons Daniel pointed out). Flash sure is shit, I'll agree.. and philosophically, I believe its use continues its proliferation by adobe.. but regardless, casting it all off isn't a viable solution. For example, if a site has information I absolutely need to access (maybe you're researching a particular artist or company that uses flash on their site, etc..) your options are to either not view that content, attempt opera or gnash or some other broken open alternative, or boot up windows. Not viewing the content doesn't help you. opera and/or gnash are close options, sometimes booting windows is not an option I feel good about even considering, and as soon as I give away this extra laptop I have, there won't be any windows here. so protest if you must, but I hope you can acknowledge a user's legitimate use, as opposed to adobe's horrific domination, or spammer's obsession with inducing seizures. regards, ~Jason -- 401.837.8417 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
Marc Espie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: So, when he tries to say that the OpenBSD crowd has a different attitude, I don't know who he's referring to, but certainly not me. That's the funniest part about this. If the attitude we have about the issue in that disucssion makes us a bunch of wanking monkeys, I'll lend him my baboon porn. He was saying the same things we say. Hell, reading him in that discussion without the From: lines could make me think I'm reading someone @openbsd.org //art
Re: amd64 with 4Go and azalia
On Tue, 15 Jul 2008, OUSADOU Azwaw wrote: Hi all, I have a amd64 computer with 4Go of memory. When i boot i have this error : azalia0 at pci1 dev 0 function 1 vendor ATI, unknown product 0xaa30 rev 0x00: can't map device i/o space azalia1 at pci0 dev 27 function 0 Intel 82801I HD Audio rev 0x02: can't map device i/o space If i remove 2 Go of memory. These errors disappear. I Have try to disable pci memory mapping in the bios. My computer have ~3,2 GB of ram but my computer freeze randomly. Someone has an idea? There are more of these: acpihpet0 at acpi0: can't map i/o space azalia0 at pci1 dev 0 function 1 vendor ATI, unknown product 0xaa30 rev 0x00: can't map device i/o space ehci1 at pci0 dev 29 function 7 Intel 82801I USB rev 0x02: can't map memory space The iommu is missing from your dmesg, so I guess the bios does not remap the memory to give space for the pci configuration. This would result in the symptoms described in the dmesg. The output from the boot promt machine memory will show if I am right with the above. If so, take a look into the bios options. There should be a knob which should take care of the remapping. If there is no such knob you should look for a bios update. Kind regards, Markus
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:08 AM, Marco Peereboom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have done just fine without flash for years. For me it is very simple; if your site has flash it means: 1. I suddenly don't care 2. I will not purchase anything from you 3. I'll find alternatives who make my experience better 4. I'll save some time by not watching some retarded video It wouldn't be the first business/site I abandon. It wouldn't be the first site at work that I simply reply to originators saying: sorry can't view the content. Making excuses for flash isn't helping. You can't say: I agree but I use it anyway because I want teh nekid ladies. On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:40:43AM -0400, Jason Beaudoin wrote: snip This guy's day job is at a bank, and they're really into it-- it solves a number of problems for them. So if this is the kind of thing that developers are going to pick up en masse, then it's something that will need to be addressed, else people who won't or can't run Flash will be increasingly marginalized. Flash is only good for a few things such as naked ladies performing anatomic tricks, dude getting punched in the ding-dong Trogodor the burninator. Nothing makes me happier than visiting a website and having some ad puking its irrelevant content on me. What's perplexing to me is that most people sit idle watching the internet as we know it disintegrate in front of their eyes. Allowing themselves to be bombarded with ads. Removing the actual reason for why html exists which is indexing content so that it can be retrieved and used by many. Those people are all ok with being shat on as long as they can watch youtube or $whatever_infantile_site_here. The 14 year old demographic is apparently the dominating one on teh intartubez these days. I for one can't wait to be marginalized. While I agree with you in many respects, I will also acknowledge that there are plenty of legitimate cases where viewing flash content is necessary. This is particularly true in artistic communities (and increasingly so, for the reasons Daniel pointed out). Flash sure is shit, I'll agree.. and philosophically, I believe its use continues its proliferation by adobe.. but regardless, casting it all off isn't a viable solution. For example, if a site has information I absolutely need to access (maybe you're researching a particular artist or company that uses flash on their site, etc..) your options are to either not view that content, attempt opera or gnash or some other broken open alternative, or boot up windows. Not viewing the content doesn't help you. opera and/or gnash are close options, sometimes booting windows is not an option I feel good about even considering, and as soon as I give away this extra laptop I have, there won't be any windows here. so protest if you must, but I hope you can acknowledge a user's legitimate use, as opposed to adobe's horrific domination, or spammer's obsession with inducing seizures. regards, ~Jason -- 401.837.8417 [EMAIL PROTECTED] I agree, a flash site means you don't want my business for me. It's annoying.
Re: pppoe0 doesn't get ip address - how to reconnect ?
The soekris box seems now working. I have to wait several days... I just add in the file : /etc/rc.shutdown ifconfig pppoe0 down Thanks a lot all for your help. I 'll have a look also for PPOE_TERM_UNKNOWN_SESSIONS Regards. Xavier. 2008/7/17 Vadim Zhukov [EMAIL PROTECTED]: 15 July 2008 c. 14:57:58 Henning Brauer wrote: * Xavier Millihs-Lacroix [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-07-15 09:02]: Sometimes when I boot a soekris box (net5501) - OpenBSD 4.3, I didn't get each times an ip address for the pppoe0 link. This is a problem as I can connect to this box only remotely. I didn't find on the documentation how to reconnect automatically if the link goes down. pppoe automagically reconnects. many ISPs have some logic to deny you from opening two ppp sessions, so by the time your box reboots the old sessions has not yet timed out. You can't do all that much but waiting for the old session to expire, pppoe will retry all the time. Search for PPPOE_TERM_UNKNOWN_SESSIONS kernel option. I have such provider, and this option helps a lot. BTW: Is there any point to translate this knob to interface linkN flag? -- Best wishes, Vadim Zhukov
Re: Install VMware 5.5 or 6.0 at OpenBSD 4.3?
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 01:58:08AM -0700, my mail wrote: --- On Thu, 7/17/08, viq [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: viq [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Install VMware 5.5 or 6.0 at OpenBSD 4.3? Try having a look at qemu. -- viq ok, will try it if i use qemu i still use bridged networking like VMware ? You can, but it requires a bit of playing around. thx -- viq [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pgp-signature]
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
2008/7/17 Marco Peereboom [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Making excuses for flash isn't helping. You can't say: I agree but I use it anyway because I want teh nekid ladies. No, no, take it from an old Masturbating Monkey, most of the pr0n videos out there on teh Intartubes do not in fact require aBLOBe Flush. (There, now I've blown my chances of future employment with any company competent enough to use teh Google. But I did it for the lulz.) --ropers
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:08 AM, Marco Peereboom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have done just fine without flash for years. For me it is very simple; if your site has flash it means: 1. I suddenly don't care 2. I will not purchase anything from you 3. I'll find alternatives who make my experience better 4. I'll save some time by not watching some retarded video It wouldn't be the first business/site I abandon. It wouldn't be the first site at work that I simply reply to originators saying: sorry can't view the content. and I agree. my point is that there are many times, particularly in artistic communitities, where this simply does not apply. and no, I could not care less about the flash ladies. Regards, ~Jason
Re: GPL version 4
On Jul 16, 2008, Morton Harrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I see with pain in my heart that the GPLv3 doesn't actually give the users of GPLv3 software the liberty and freedom the FSF has been fighting for. Instead they are forced to play by the strict set of terms the GPLv3 provides. For example, as a liberated computer user, I might like to incorporate a high quality piece of GPLv3 software in a commercial product, You can do that. There are lots of commercial products containing GPLv3 software out there. which for bussiness strategic reasons happens to be closed source software. But the GPLv3 denies my claim for this freedom to do this. You are mistaken in several levels. 1. Disrespecting others' freedoms is not a matter of freedom, it's a matter of power. 2. Nothing in the GPL prevents you from doing any of this. If there is something that prevents you from doing this, it's copyright law. You won't find prohibitions in the GPL. 3. If you're unable to combine third-party GPL-incompatible software with GPL software, it's because the third party prevented you from doing this, and you accepted it. Don't blame the GPL for your acceptance of such terms. 4. If you decide to not release your own code under the GPL, even though this stops you from releasing the program you wrote with help from other authors who chose the GPL, that's your decision. Don't blame the GPL for the consequences of your own decisions. -- Alexandre Oliva http://www.lsd.ic.unicamp.br/~oliva/ Free Software Evangelist [EMAIL PROTECTED], gnu.org} FSFLA Board Member B!SC) Libre! = http://www.fsfla.org/ Red Hat Compiler Engineer [EMAIL PROTECTED], gcc.gnu.org}
Re: Identifying Bandwidth Hogs
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Sam Fourman Jr. wrote: does anyone know of a document or website that has a tourtorial on setting up a netflow sensor, collector, etc. Sam Fourman Jr. i have a very large nfdump running at work
Re:
2008/7/15 Vadim Zhukov [EMAIL PROTECTED]: An easier summary document for some people to read: http://www.geek.com/images/geeknews/2006Jan/core_duo_errata__2006_01_2 1__full.gif http://tinyurl.com/3xnw88
Re: Identifying Bandwidth Hogs
* Diana Eichert [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-07-17 14:11]: i have a very large nfdump running at work and after meeting the author at a conference some time ago, watching his presentation and talking to him at length, i totally recommend that. and one day I will write better netflow export for OpenBSD/pf. Or at least something that we can emit and is simple and has all the data, so conversion gets easy. -- Henning Brauer, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] BS Web Services, http://bsws.de Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting - Hamburg Amsterdam
Re: GPL version 4
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008 08:21:28 -0300, Alexandre Oliva wrote: On Jul 16, 2008, Morton Harrow [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Blah, blah, blah... 8 snip loads of irrelevant shit. Can all you bastards take this discussion to somewhere where it is relevant instead of blindly CCing to all the addresses used by some troll. It is NOT pertinent to any OpenBSD, FreeBSD or NetBSD mailing list. Thanks to all the locals who trimmed their reply targets. Well done. Now let's starve the outsiders, please. They are oxygen thieves. NOTE WELL: My sender address is limited to getting mail from the list servers to which I am subscribed. Attempts to send replies to that address will result in your address being blacklisted automatically. Rod/ Me...a skeptic? I trust you have proof.
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
Hi! On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:54:15AM -0400, Jason Dixon wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 06:59:44PM -0700, Jason LaRiviere wrote: Flash has a place on the web, just like any other rich media format. It should be used responsibly, as semantically as possible, and degrade nicely for those who care not to use it. I make every effort to use it within these guidelines, and present them as gospel to my clients. Many (most?) modern web developers do too, except for the ones at a Flex conference who still think drawing entire websites in Flash is a good idea. Shame on them, but they are a dying breed. Flash has one huge technical benefit. There are a number of sites that generate large amounts of dynamic images. Doing this in a fast and efficient manner requires an enormous amount of computing resources. Using flash pushes that work out to the client where it can be rendered on their own system. What about four letters: Java? One advantage: No blob required. And at least a *bit* more portable. And will eventually be quite open source. Kind regards, Hannah.
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
Hi! On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 03:38:35PM -0600, Mark Pecaut wrote: On 7/16/08, Marco Peereboom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I for one am glad there is no plugin for that infectious disease called flash. But then how will I watch Ow! My balls! videos online? What will I do? There's plenty of add-ons for firefox/... to download them. E.g. DownloadHelper (which knows how to download the stuff from much more than youtube/google video). Kind regards, Hannah.
Re: tcpdump -X
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:04:17AM -0700, J.C. Roberts wrote: ...but it's also long time users like Paul and Josh forgetting the end result of being overly helpful. Hey, JC, I pointed the OP to acronymfinder.com; one of the more useful sites I know of.
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
Paul de Weerd escreveu: I'd suggest you rethink your reasons for changing OS. If you want to switch from Linux to OpenBSD (or vice versa, for all I care), please make sure there's sound technical reasons for it. The main guy said something stupid does not a bad product make. Cheers, Paul 'WEiRD' de Weerd I'm still using linux and openbsd. There are technical reasons for me to do that. The problem here isn't the main guy said something stupid. The problem here, and this is what is making me more annoyed, is that i used to have a point of view, and thinking of Linus as a great guy, who made something important. He actually did, but now he is making it just plain wrong. You know, security bugs are security bugs. The other ones are the others. Simple like that. Linus is not just putting all of them in the same sack, but he is also offending who does not, like the openbsd dev team. This is an unacceptable attitude from someone who is in the front line of an entire operational system, and, who wanting it or not, has a big influence, at least in linux world. So, i will not change my OS because of what Linus said or not. I will change it because i think openbsd is better. Plain simple like that. If i do not change, there will be technical reasons for that, like my sound card not working on openbsd, or something like that (mention to note, it does not work properly on linux). My regards, -- Giancarlo Razzolini http://lock.razzolini.adm.br Linux User 172199 Red Hat Certified Engineer no:804006389722501 Verify:https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/current/ Moleque Sem Conteudo Numero #002 OpenBSD Stable Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron 4386 2A6F FFD4 4D5F 5842 6EA0 7ABE BBAB 9C0E 6B85
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
looks like the theme for the 4.4 release is sorted then. _ Invite your Facebook friends to chat on Messenger http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719649/direct/01/
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
Sevan / Venture37 escreveu: looks like the theme for the 4.4 release is sorted then. _ Invite your Facebook friends to chat on Messenger http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719649/direct/01/ agreed. I barely can wait to see Ty Semaka artwork for 4.4. Definitively it should include monkeys. And amoebas too. My regards, -- Giancarlo Razzolini http://lock.razzolini.adm.br Linux User 172199 Red Hat Certified Engineer no:804006389722501 Verify:https://www.redhat.com/certification/rhce/current/ Moleque Sem Conteudo Numero #002 OpenBSD Stable Ubuntu 8.04 Hardy Heron 4386 2A6F FFD4 4D5F 5842 6EA0 7ABE BBAB 9C0E 6B85
[ landisk ] - install w/o the serial console
Hello, I have a serial console on my Plextor PX-EH40L which seems to be broken now (no RX available). After quite a few testings of various OSes, the disk is now blanked. Until I get a new serial console, I'd like to try OpenBSD 4.4 on that disk. I couldn't find the procedure to manually install OpenBSD on it. I'm not talking about the disklabel/fdisk/newfs/tar part :) I can probably manage that one. I'm more concerned about making the installation bootable. Is the INSTALLBOOT(8) command enough to prepare the disk to boot the system ? Let's say I boot OpenBSD/i386 on my laptop. Prepare and untar /landisk binaries onto /mnt ; the disk being pluggued via an IDE/USB adapter and recognised as /dev/sd0. Would the following commands make the disk bootable ? # cp -p /mnt/usr/mdec/boot /mnt/boot # /usr/mdec/installboot -v /mnt/boot /mnt/usr/mdec/biosboot sd0 TIA, Jo
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Marco Peereboom wrote: Somehow the word Java comes to mind... Tell me again how that one runtime meme worked for them again. Are you saying that Java is not being used widely? All of the fundamental courses in my CS department are taught using Java, and I don't think my department is an exception. Seems like a home run to me-- I'm sure that Sun considers Java a great success. Flash is only good for a few things such as naked ladies performing anatomic tricks, dude getting punched in the ding-dong Trogodor the burninator. Nothing makes me happier than visiting a website and having some ad puking its irrelevant content on me. That's not what the instructor was pushing for-- he's suggesting that people build an entire site using Flash. That's the whole point of Flex. I don't think that banking websites fall into the category you mention. His argument was this: Flash is available for Windows, Mac, Linux-- that gives you pretty much everybody-- and anybody else has marginalized themselves. Now, I strongly disagree with him. For my employer, Flash is not an option-- our applications need to be able to run on anything, even cellphones, and they need to be accessible. The application has to run on many different backends as well. But if you don't have those requirements, or have had the experience of being locked in to a single-vendor solution, Flash probably looks pretty good to you. I for one can't wait to be marginalized. I doubt that you really feel that way.
Re: OT: BSDanywhere mailing lists online
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 9:42 PM, Stephan A. Rickauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The BSDanywhere project has now its own bug tracker as well as two mailing lists. No excuses for spamming the OpenBSD lists any longer ;) See http://bsdanywhere.org for details. woohoo!!! this is cool. A few faq addition suggestions: - what version of OpenBSD is this based on? - how is this different from the jggimi discs? -jf -- In the meantime, here is your PSA: It's so hard to write a graphics driver that open-sourcing it would not help. -- Andrew Fear, Software Product Manager, NVIDIA Corporation http://kerneltrap.org/node/7228
Re: ipmi not working on poweredge 2850
Am Mon, 14 Jul 2008 22:03:59 +0200 schrieb Ariane van der Steldt [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 05:09:10PM +0200, J??rg Streckfu?? wrote: today i tried to read the esm log on a poweredge 2850 running OpenBSD 4.3 stable. In the past i could see much more output from the internal sensors than only the raid sensor snip [EMAIL PROTECTED] root # sysctl hw.sensors hw.sensors.ami0.drive0=online (sd0), OK /snip the dmesg says that impi is not configured. Is there a way to turn it on? Heh, I happen to have played alot with that recently :P You only have to turn it on in your kernel, using the config binary. config -e -f /bsd enable ipmi quit And you're all set (after a reboot). Ciao, Ariane Thanks, that was excactly what i was searching for. Regards, Joerg -- Dipl.-Ing. (FH) Joerg Streckfuss, Phone: +49 40 808077-631 DFN-CERT Services GmbH, https://www.dfn-cert.de/, Phone +49 40 808077-555 Sitz / Register: Hamburg, AG Hamburg, HRB 88805, Ust-IdNr.: DE 232129737 SachsenstraC e 5, 20097 Hamburg/Germany, CEO: Dr. Klaus-Peter Kossakowski [demime 1.01d removed an attachment of type application/pkcs7-signature which had a name of smime.p7s]
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
Marco Peereboom wrote: For me it is very simple; if your site has flash it means: [snip] 2. I will not purchase anything from you In my opinion it's not always that simple. Take skydiving equipment for example. This is a small and highly specialized market in which often few alternatives are available. When it comes to gear that my life is going to depend on, I'd much rather base my choice on the quality of the product itself than on the quality of the manufacturer's website, thank you. I refuse to say: I'll buy that other parachute because even though I trust it less, at least the manufacturer doesn't have Flash on his website. Don't get me wrong, I hate the use of Flash when it has nothing substantial to add and I do try to point out to offending manufacturers that their websites basically just suck ass, but I for one can't afford the you use Flash so I won't buy your stuff attitude. I value my life a little bit too much for that. When buying cars, CDs or other everyday goods there are so many alternatives that you can safely avoid Flash and simply buy your stuff elsewhere, but with more specialized goods there often simply aren't enough (viable) alternatives to do so. Just my two cents, Alphons -- If riding in an airplane is flying, then riding in a boat is swimming. If you want to experience the element, get out of the vehicle.
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 02:36:11PM +0200, Hannah Schroeter wrote: Hi! On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:54:15AM -0400, Jason Dixon wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 06:59:44PM -0700, Jason LaRiviere wrote: Flash has a place on the web, just like any other rich media format. It should be used responsibly, as semantically as possible, and degrade nicely for those who care not to use it. I make every effort to use it within these guidelines, and present them as gospel to my clients. Many (most?) modern web developers do too, except for the ones at a Flex conference who still think drawing entire websites in Flash is a good idea. Shame on them, but they are a dying breed. Flash has one huge technical benefit. There are a number of sites that generate large amounts of dynamic images. Doing this in a fast and efficient manner requires an enormous amount of computing resources. Using flash pushes that work out to the client where it can be rendered on their own system. What about four letters: Java? One advantage: No blob required. And at least a *bit* more portable. And will eventually be quite open source. I don't have any customers that use Java for client-side image rendering, so I can't speak as to how it would compare. I suspect that Java wouldn't be as efficient as flash for passing instructions to the client, but that's just a hunch. -- Jason Dixon DixonGroup Consulting http://www.dixongroup.net/
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 02:16:15PM +, Alphons Fonz van Werven wrote: Marco Peereboom wrote: For me it is very simple; if your site has flash it means: [snip] 2. I will not purchase anything from you In my opinion it's not always that simple. Take skydiving equipment for example. This is a small and highly specialized market in which often few alternatives are available. When it comes to gear that my life is going to depend on, I'd much rather base my choice on the quality of the product itself than on the quality of the manufacturer's website, thank you. I refuse to say: I'll buy that other parachute because even though I trust it less, at least the manufacturer doesn't have Flash on his website. Don't get me wrong, I hate the use of Flash when it has nothing substantial to add and I do try to point out to offending manufacturers that their websites basically just suck ass, but I for one can't afford the you use Flash so I won't buy your stuff attitude. I value my life a little bit too much for that. When buying cars, CDs or other everyday goods there are so many alternatives that you can safely avoid Flash and simply buy your stuff elsewhere, but with more specialized goods there often simply aren't enough (viable) alternatives to do so. Just my two cents, I know that if I had to buy something which had a direct impact on me being dead or alive, I'd probably move my ass to the store, and probably a few stores even, rather than just buying it on internet Anyway, your comment seemed like most people spend their time buying vital items, I assume they are not and most people are buying items and using services which are available from various sites. I understand marco and I have adopted the same attitude of not giving money to companies which ... make it hard for me to give them my money. If they don't want it, it's fine I'll buy from a competitor which isn't an annoyance. I've had to change bank recently because they turned their authentication into a flash interface that forced me into keeping a dual boot and rebooting whenever I wanted to check my account. There are competitors, they offer similar services, more or less, why cope with the annoyance ? Gilles -- Gilles Chehade http://www.poolp.org/~gilles/ Please, contribute to my happiness ;) http://www.amazon.com/gp/registry/wishlist/2O09ACKR1A8HD/
confirmed working wireless minipci cards at 54Mbps under OpenBSD 4.3
Hi all, I'm looking to compile a list (of at least one :-) working minipci wireless card(s) which reliably run at the fastest supported speed under 802.11a or 802.11g on OpenBSD 4.3. The minipci card would be intended to run in a Soekris 5501 box. I've read the OpenBSD docs and searched and read a lot of documents re: BSD support for such devices, but it seems a lot of people are only having success with speeds up to 11Mbps. I am looking to get specific makes and models of minipci cards please! Thanks for your feedback. Regards, Dave
Re: tcpdump -X
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 9:04 AM, J.C. Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 15 July 2008, GVG GVG wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 3:54 PM, David Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 03:42:58PM +0200, GVG GVG wrote: Use the size of your MTU, which can be found my using ifconfig. -- David Hill Thanks for your prompt reply. Just out of curiosity what's this 'MTU' stands for? MTU stands for Mark T Uemura, otherwise known as mtu@, an OpenBSD developer who has been kind enough to do some fantastic write-ups and interviews on the events and people of the two most recent hackathons. http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=searchmode=thres=method=andsort=timequery=mtu Now, all kidding aside, please look at the length of your question above and compare it to the following URL: http://www.google.com/search?as_q=MTU Yep, the URL is shorter. Answering your own question would have been less typing, a whole lot faster, and far more complete than the simple expansion of an abbreviation given to you in replies. The half dozen idiots posting replies with the correct answer to your easily answered question have done a disservice to both you and everyone else subscribed to this list. Mindlessly blurting out an easily found answer is tantamount to bragging and makes the people doing it look stupid since it shows they failed to think things through. They robbed you of a chance to learn something on your own, they cluttered the mail boxes of thousands of people, and worst of all, they encouraged all the countless other people like you to be lazy. There's nothing wrong with not knowing things, but if you're unwilling to at least try learning and try solving your own problems *before* asking for help, then you obviously don't respect the time people commit to writing software and helping others on these lists. The correct order of operation is Think, Search, Study, and Try. When you've repeated the first four steps a few times and you're still at a loss for an answer, only then take the fifth step of Asking. It's the tough road to take rather than the easy way out, but in the end, you'll be stronger and better for it. In a similar vein, you might find the following thread enlightening: http://marc.info/?t=12143420236r=1w=2 Particularly: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscm=121434335503622w=2 Yep, this crap happens all the time. It's not just new people showing up on the lists and not knowing the basics, but it's also long time users like Paul and Josh forgetting the end result of being overly helpful. Heck, if you search the list archives, you'll probably find places where *I* have made the exact same mistakes. I may seem like a complete ass for pointing the obvious, but none the less, all of the above are things you, and others, really need to learn and remember. Kind Regards jcr this kind of replies do have a long tradition in this list - probably most of the times for a good reason! On the other hand, calling people idiots, isn't really polite, to put it mildly, neither serves any good cause! I fully agree with your definition of the correct order of operation and it wasn't my intension to abuse any resources. I don't know if you read the whole thread but my initial question was a bit different! I didn't just jumped-in with the question 'what's MTU'. It was a result of a kind reply to my problem and after looking the man pages, where this acronym wasn't defined, assumed that a generic term like this will, most probably, produce a lot of unrelated and misleading hits in Google. Proved wrong! Still this wasn't an outcome of being lazy doing my homework. As a result, I think you heavily exaggerate with your strong wording. Thanks George
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
You are the one jumping out of a perfectly good working airplane... Lame example but don't worry most people who give these types of examples think that the recipient is an idiot and could not have come up with it themselves. I appreciate you treating me like a 3 year old. On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 02:16:15PM +, Alphons Fonz van Werven wrote: Marco Peereboom wrote: For me it is very simple; if your site has flash it means: [snip] 2. I will not purchase anything from you In my opinion it's not always that simple. Take skydiving equipment for example. This is a small and highly specialized market in which often few alternatives are available. When it comes to gear that my life is going to depend on, I'd much rather base my choice on the quality of the product itself than on the quality of the manufacturer's website, thank you. I refuse to say: I'll buy that other parachute because even though I trust it less, at least the manufacturer doesn't have Flash on his website. Don't get me wrong, I hate the use of Flash when it has nothing substantial to add and I do try to point out to offending manufacturers that their websites basically just suck ass, but I for one can't afford the you use Flash so I won't buy your stuff attitude. I value my life a little bit too much for that. When buying cars, CDs or other everyday goods there are so many alternatives that you can safely avoid Flash and simply buy your stuff elsewhere, but with more specialized goods there often simply aren't enough (viable) alternatives to do so. Just my two cents, Alphons -- If riding in an airplane is flying, then riding in a boat is swimming. If you want to experience the element, get out of the vehicle.
Re: OT: BSDanywhere mailing lists online
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:08:51PM +0800, Jeffrey 'jf' Lim wrote: - how is this different from the jggimi discs? I can't speak to Stephan's recent changes; he and I spoke via e-mail just before his Beta 1 was packaged. I did look at Beta 1, but not newer ISOs, I'll talk only to known differences with Beta 1. We have the same purposes: OS familiarization and hardware testing. 1. My LiveCDs/LiveDVDs offer multiple workstation configurations, primarily for Linux/OtherBSD users interested in gaining some familiarity with OpenBSD. I also include a basic OS with nothing at all, primarily for use by OpenBSD users who want a LiveCD for hardware testing. Beta 1 was an Enlightenment -only packaging. 2. I have ISOs for both i386 and amd64 architectures; I understand Stephan plans to increase harware offerings over time. 3. I boot a UP kernel by default and offer an MP kernel as an option; BSDanywhere uses an MP kernel. 4. I used to include bsd.rd on my ISOs, though I removed it for 4.3. I noted it was available with BSDanywhere. 5. I have the default 5 second boot prompt, BSDanywhere skips it; but then, I leave it there for booting bsd.mp. 6. I noted that Beta 1 used mount_mfs -P. I liked it, and thought it would be interesting to try it when I package ISOs for 4.4-release. I have since seen e-mail from Stephan that it caused performance delays when using optical media and will be or has already been abandond. 7. Stephan has a much, much better designed website.
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 09:47:31AM -0400, Daniel Barowy wrote: On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Marco Peereboom wrote: Somehow the word Java comes to mind... Tell me again how that one runtime meme worked for them again. Are you saying that Java is not being used widely? All of the fundamental courses in my CS department are taught using Java, and I don't think my department is an exception. Seems like a home run to me-- I'm sure that Sun considers Java a great success. I am saying that each java app requires its own java runtime because the previous/next version is incompatible. Nothing new here. Flash is only good for a few things such as naked ladies performing anatomic tricks, dude getting punched in the ding-dong Trogodor the burninator. Nothing makes me happier than visiting a website and having some ad puking its irrelevant content on me. That's not what the instructor was pushing for-- he's suggesting that people build an entire site using Flash. That's the whole point of Flex. I don't think that banking websites fall into the category you mention. His argument was this: Flash is available for Windows, Mac, Linux-- that gives you pretty much everybody-- and anybody else has marginalized themselves. Your instructor is making money using flash. I am sure he had sound advice. My bank uses html; the day they change is the day I'll cancel all my accounts. Now, I strongly disagree with him. For my employer, Flash is not an option-- our applications need to be able to run on anything, even cellphones, and they need to be accessible. The application has to run on many different backends as well. But if you don't have those requirements, or have had the experience of being locked in to a single-vendor solution, Flash probably looks pretty good to you. I can't begin to imagine why I would agree or work in such an environment. I for one can't wait to be marginalized. I doubt that you really feel that way. I am glad you are an internet psychologist that knows me well enough to tell me what is good for me.
Re: tcpdump -X
GVG GVG wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 9:04 AM, J.C. Roberts [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 15 July 2008, GVG GVG wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 3:54 PM, David Hill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 03:42:58PM +0200, GVG GVG wrote: Use the size of your MTU, which can be found my using ifconfig. -- David Hill Thanks for your prompt reply. Just out of curiosity what's this 'MTU' stands for? MTU stands for Mark T Uemura, otherwise known as mtu@, an OpenBSD developer who has been kind enough to do some fantastic write-ups and interviews on the events and people of the two most recent hackathons. http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=searchmode=thres=method=and; sort=timequery=mtu Now, all kidding aside, please look at the length of your question above and compare it to the following URL: http://www.google.com/search?as_q=MTU Yep, the URL is shorter. Answering your own question would have been less typing, a whole lot faster, and far more complete than the simple expansion of an abbreviation given to you in replies. The half dozen idiots posting replies with the correct answer to your easily answered question have done a disservice to both you and everyone else subscribed to this list. Mindlessly blurting out an easily found answer is tantamount to bragging and makes the people doing it look stupid since it shows they failed to think things through. They robbed you of a chance to learn something on your own, they cluttered the mail boxes of thousands of people, and worst of all, they encouraged all the countless other people like you to be lazy. There's nothing wrong with not knowing things, but if you're unwilling to at least try learning and try solving your own problems *before* asking for help, then you obviously don't respect the time people commit to writing software and helping others on these lists. The correct order of operation is Think, Search, Study, and Try. When you've repeated the first four steps a few times and you're still at a loss for an answer, only then take the fifth step of Asking. It's the tough road to take rather than the easy way out, but in the end, you'll be stronger and better for it. In a similar vein, you might find the following thread enlightening: http://marc.info/?t=12143420236r=1w=2 Particularly: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscm=121434335503622w=2 Yep, this crap happens all the time. It's not just new people showing up on the lists and not knowing the basics, but it's also long time users like Paul and Josh forgetting the end result of being overly helpful. Heck, if you search the list archives, you'll probably find places where *I* have made the exact same mistakes. I may seem like a complete ass for pointing the obvious, but none the less, all of the above are things you, and others, really need to learn and remember. Kind Regards jcr this kind of replies do have a long tradition in this list - probably most of the times for a good reason! On the other hand, calling people idiots, isn't really polite, to put it mildly, neither serves any good cause! I fully agree with your definition of the correct order of operation and it wasn't my intension to abuse any resources. I don't know if you read the whole thread but my initial question was a bit different! I didn't just jumped-in with the question 'what's MTU'. It was a result of a kind reply to my problem and after looking the man pages, where this acronym wasn't defined, assumed that a generic term like this will, most probably, produce a lot of unrelated and misleading hits in Google. Proved wrong! Still this wasn't an outcome of being lazy doing my homework. As a result, I think you heavily exaggerate with your strong wording. Thanks George If you watch the fungames from mis-matched MTUs, methinks you will discover that it is NO exaggeration.
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
Gilles Chehade wrote: I know that if I had to buy something which had a direct impact on me being dead or alive, I'd probably move my ass to the store, and probably a few stores even, rather than just buying it on internet Very true of course. However, not every store sells every make. In fact, many stores specialize in just one or two. So, skydivers need to do a lot of research before strolling into a shop. Or even before choosing which shop to go to. The Internet is a valuable tool for getting your bearings and finding out what's available out there. Anyway, your comment seemed like most people spend their time buying vital items, I assume they are not and most people are buying items and using services which are available from various sites. I did mention that the situation is different when buying common goods available from many sources. However, I felt the need to point out that in my opinion it's *not always* as simple as Marco makes it seem. Alphons -- If riding in an airplane is flying, then riding in a boat is swimming. If you want to experience the element, get out of the vehicle.
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008, Marco Peereboom wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 09:47:31AM -0400, Daniel Barowy wrote: On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, Marco Peereboom wrote: Somehow the word Java comes to mind... Tell me again how that one runtime meme worked for them again. Are you saying that Java is not being used widely? All of the fundamental courses in my CS department are taught using Java, and I don't think my department is an exception. Seems like a home run to me-- I'm sure that Sun considers Java a great success. I am saying that each java app requires its own java runtime because the previous/next version is incompatible. Nothing new here. Interesting! In my (admittedly limited) experience, software built with an older version of Java nearly always runs just fine with a later version of the Java runtime. The only exceptions I'm aware of involve one of the rare and well publicized API changes in the class libraries or Microsoft's pseudo-Java, which was deliberately incompatible (in violation of the Java licence) as a marketing move. Dave -- Dave Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
Marco Peereboom wrote: You are the one jumping out of a perfectly good working airplane... You obviously haven't seen the airplane... most people who give these types of examples think that the recipient is an idiot [snip] I appreciate you treating me like a 3 year old. Last time I checked, my name wasn't Most People. I don't remember calling you an idiot or other such name. For a 3-year old you display pretty impressive thought capabilities and linguistic skills. On a slightly more mature note: If I posted such bold black and white statements I wouldn't be surprised (let alone offended) if others pointed out that they agree with the general concept but find them inaccurate or unpractical in certain situations. Perhaps there's a masturbating monkey sitting on your shoulder ;-) Alphons -- If riding in an airplane is flying, then riding in a boat is swimming. If you want to experience the element, get out of the vehicle.
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On 17.07-10:26, Jason Dixon wrote: [ ... ] I don't have any customers that use Java for client-side image rendering, so I can't speak as to how it would compare. I suspect that Java wouldn't be as efficient as flash for passing instructions to the client, but that's just a hunch. performance of image rendering ? ? ? passing instructions ??? that's as meaningful as the banana flavoured lube. ;-) java is a language, flash is a solution. many would like to see an open alternative to flash but since flash is not microsoft i think it's below most radars. it's also, as many here have noted, 99.9% meaningless junk; and i'm 100% confident that any flash application could be re-implemented in Java, should needs, must. personally, i avoid flash as a retard filter; remove it and lots of sh1t suddenly disappears. p.s: java's image rendering is perfectly performant (assuming you accept java as an overhead in the first place ... of course, flashplayer is just as bad)
Re: Install VMware 5.5 or 6.0 at OpenBSD 4.3?
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:58 AM, my mail [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- On Thu, 7/17/08, viq [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: viq [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Install VMware 5.5 or 6.0 at OpenBSD 4.3? Try having a look at qemu. -- viq ok, will try it if i use qemu i still use bridged networking like VMware ? Yes. You use the -net tap option. It's kind of painful the first time through, so here's a guide to one way (but not the only way) to do it: You have to edit /etc/qemu-ifup and change the ETHER variable to be the interface you want to bridge to, and you have to run qemu with sudo, or at least sufficiently privileges for it to create a tun(4) The default qemu-ifup shows using a trunk(4) interface. You could also set that up, but I haven't done it so I won't risk trying to tell you how to do it. Read the manpage ;) If you get qemu running Windows for you please tell me. My windows hangs at the start of the partition boot loader under it. -Nick
Re: cross-compiling for NetBSD?
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 12:16 AM, Jason Beaudoin
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hiya!
maybe I'll get flames for inquiring, but I'll try anyway:
has anyone attempted (maybe with success) building a NetBSD toolchain
on OpenBSD?
I understand that this might seem senseless to some folks, but it's a
good option for my situation. From the research I've done (archives,
google, etc) it doesn't appear that others have tried (or documented
trying), but I find it hard to believe that this hasn't been attempted
before.
I'd like to do this for the same reason you would cross-compile for
another architecture; I've got to build NetBSD kernels for
development, the system is currently running on seriously underpowered
hardware, and I've got my more powerful (and idle) OpenBSD workstation
sitting next to me (I'm perfectly happy with OpenBSD and not putting
NetBSD on my workstation :)
NetBSD has a build script that facilitates building the system,
including cross-compilation situations. Aside from make complaining
about options for -d (about printing errors), I ran into the
following:
make: illegal argument to -d option -- e
usage: make [-BeiknPqrSst] [-D variable] [-d flags] [-f makefile]
[-I directory] [-j max_jobs] [-m directory] [-V variable]
[NAME=value] [target ...]
dir.o(.text+0x54e): In function `DirExpandCurly':
: warning: strcpy() is almost always misused, please use strlcpy()
/bin/sh: syntax error: `(' unexpected
ERROR: raw_getmakevar TOOLDIR: /tmp/nbbuild22761/nbmake failed
*** BUILD ABORTED ***
in this case, is the strcpy() string warning killing the build
process? If so, can it be suppressed for the build? Should I hack the
build script to use gmake?
The warning never kills the process. That warning is generated by
OpenBSD's modified ld(1). It looks like the error is in a shellscript
(perhaps `nbmake`?). Probably something is getting generated wrong
because OpenBSD doesn't work the way NetBSD's tools expect, but it's
hard to say any more.
-Nick
Re: cross-compiling for NetBSD?
On 7/17/08, Jason Beaudoin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
has anyone attempted (maybe with success) building a NetBSD toolchain
on OpenBSD?
This would fall more into the NetBSD camp. After all, it's their toolchain.
NetBSD has a build script that facilitates building the system,
including cross-compilation situations. Aside from make complaining
about options for -d (about printing errors), I ran into the
following:
make: illegal argument to -d option -- e
usage: make [-BeiknPqrSst] [-D variable] [-d flags] [-f makefile]
[-I directory] [-j max_jobs] [-m directory] [-V variable]
[NAME=value] [target ...]
dir.o(.text+0x54e): In function `DirExpandCurly':
: warning: strcpy() is almost always misused, please use strlcpy()
/bin/sh: syntax error: `(' unexpected
This means your executable was not identified, and the kernel passed
it off as a shell script.
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On 17.07-10:13, Marco Peereboom wrote: [ ... ] I am saying that each java app requires its own java runtime because the previous/next version is incompatible. Nothing new here. this is wrong. java versions are largely compatible and most requirements are library problems, not runtime compatibility (although i believe distribution rights to core components would often restrict packaging for forward compatibility). -- t t w
Re: [ landisk ] - install w/o the serial console
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008, Joel CARNAT wrote: Hello, I have a serial console on my Plextor PX-EH40L which seems to be broken now (no RX available). After quite a few testings of various OSes, the disk is now blanked. Until I get a new serial console, I'd like to try OpenBSD 4.4 on that disk. I couldn't find the procedure to manually install OpenBSD on it. I'm not talking about the disklabel/fdisk/newfs/tar part :) I can probably manage that one. I'm more concerned about making the installation bootable. Is the INSTALLBOOT(8) command enough to prepare the disk to boot the system ? Let's say I boot OpenBSD/i386 on my laptop. Prepare and untar /landisk binaries onto /mnt ; the disk being pluggued via an IDE/USB adapter and recognised as /dev/sd0. Would the following commands make the disk bootable ? # cp -p /mnt/usr/mdec/boot /mnt/boot # /usr/mdec/installboot -v /mnt/boot /mnt/usr/mdec/biosboot sd0 TIA, Jo I dunno, never tried to blindly install on a Plextor, I got the serial console working first. diana
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On 17.07-12:13, Jason Dixon wrote: You don't have to be a dick. [ ... ] eh ... ok. i wasn't trying to be; i was trying to be funny but apparently my linguistic skills are on a par with your own. apologies. [ ... ] I don't know anything about Java client-side rendering capabilities, and I expressed as such. I'm not sure why the phrases image rendering or passing instructions throw you off. I'm not a flash or java developer, nor do I pretend to be. But I know that flash is very effective at pushing image rendinering resource requirements out to the client, rather than relying on enormous amounts of server-side CPU power. ... but i was also making the point that if you don't know anything about Java client-side rendering and are not a flash or java developer perhaps you should refrain from spouting technical jargonese on the subject. i know what you're getting but i don't think it's representative of java or flash. the primary reason for flash performing better is that it has better development tools (and a more mature/focused API) for these things. everything you'd need is also available in java. as i said, java is a language, flash is a solution. one could build the same solutions in java, should they choose to engage that, and make them just as performant (qualified, of course, by the platform requirements); it would just take a lot more work. [ ... ] If you dismiss my comments as fancy, you simply have no experience in this arena. No reason to be hostile about it. apologies again, it was meant as a lighthearted jibe. p.s: i have some experience in both platforms but would not claim to be an expert in either p.p.s: i expect the server side demands you are experiencing are from a jvm on the server not the actual application demands that you are correlating them to (although i do understand the overlap) -- t t w
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 07:09:19AM -0400, Jason Beaudoin wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:08 AM, Marco Peereboom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have done just fine without flash for years. For me it is very simple; if your site has flash it means: 1. I suddenly don't care 2. I will not purchase anything from you 3. I'll find alternatives who make my experience better 4. I'll save some time by not watching some retarded video It wouldn't be the first business/site I abandon. It wouldn't be the first site at work that I simply reply to originators saying: sorry can't view the content. and I agree. my point is that there are many times, particularly in artistic communitities, where this simply does not apply. There are also many educational sites that use flash. These are highly interactive (and dare I say, fun) learning experiences. I see a lot of value in that. I look forward to the day that my daughter can use http://www.starfall.com/ on OpenBSD. -- Jason Dixon DixonGroup Consulting http://www.dixongroup.net/
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 7:07 PM, n0g0013 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 17.07-10:13, Marco Peereboom wrote: [ ... ] I am saying that each java app requires its own java runtime because the previous/next version is incompatible. Nothing new here. this is wrong. java versions are largely compatible and most requirements are library problems, not runtime compatibility (although i believe distribution rights to core components would often restrict packaging for forward compatibility). If you get java awt rendering animations half as decently as the official flash plugin, I would be suprised! -- Best Regards Edd http://students.dec.bournemouth.ac.uk/ebarrett
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
I love your optimism. Integration efforts I worked on for a large company always required to drop 1 run time environment per app. I promise we tried really really hard to make that one. This meant that when a loaded box went out the door there were as many as 8 java runtimes installed on your box. Spare me the but my app is totally 1337 and doesn't need that; it simply doesn't apply to many scenarios. On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 06:07:05PM +, n0g0013 wrote: On 17.07-10:13, Marco Peereboom wrote: [ ... ] I am saying that each java app requires its own java runtime because the previous/next version is incompatible. Nothing new here. this is wrong. java versions are largely compatible and most requirements are library problems, not runtime compatibility (although i believe distribution rights to core components would often restrict packaging for forward compatibility). -- t t w
CARP not leaving backup state
(Sorry if this is a dupe, not sure if you had to be a subscriber to send to the list) Hello all, I am a new to OpenBSD but not *nix in general... I have two systems running OpenBSD 4.2. It has 9 carp interfaces, and has been running fine for months. All of a sudden, both systems are in BACKUP state. I halted one of the systems then on the remaining system rebooted, shut down and restarted, run ifconfig carp1 state master, changed the sysctls, removed the hostname files, rebooted, then replaced the hostname files, fiddled with the advskew and lots of other things. Even with no other system running, carp will not go into MASTER state, period, no errors, no logs. I tried setting net.inet.carp.log=1 and 2 and 1000, I see no logs anywhere in /var/log. Anything else I can look at? William
CARP not leaving backup state
Hello all, I am a new to OpenBSD but not *nix in general... I have two systems running OpenBSD 4.2. It has 9 carp interfaces, and has been running fine for months. All of a sudden, both systems are in BACKUP state. I have rebooted, shut down and restarted, run ifconfig carp1 state master, changed the sysctls, removed the hostname files, rebooted, then replaced the hostname files, run with only one system up, fiddled with the advskew and lots of other things. Even with no other system running, carp will not go into MASTER state, period, it won't try, it won't log. I tried setting net.inet.carp.log=1 and 2 and 1000, I see no logs anywhere in /var/log. Anything else I can look at? William
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
On Jul 17, 2008, at 8:42 AM, Giancarlo Razzolini wrote: agreed. I barely can wait to see Ty Semaka artwork for 4.4. Definitively it should include monkeys. And amoebas too. I agree, monkeys should definitely be somehow incorporated into the artwork for the next release.
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
Don't forget some amoebas wearing suits and t-shirts with a penguin stamp. agreed. I barely can wait to see Ty Semaka artwork for 4.4. Definitively it should include monkeys. And amoebas too. I agree, monkeys should definitely be somehow incorporated into the artwork for the next release.
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Edd Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you get java awt rendering animations half as decently as the official flash plugin, I would be suprised! Actually, http://solarcollector.ca/create.php doesn't look too bad. It still feels crufty to me though, on Windows Java pops up going oh look i'm java and it's kind of slow. Flash is definitely faster. Java was not originally meant for the web and it's always been a hack in there. I too am rooting for gnash to be finished some day. I hate all-flash sites as much as anyone, but it's sticking your head in the sand to avoid it. -Nick
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 6:22 PM, Kyle Drake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 3:10 PM, Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyway, I don't think of OpenBSD as a 'secure' system, I think of it as a 'correct' system, and security is a side effect of that that's good for marketing. Doesn't seem like Linus gets that. That's the comedy of it though, isn't it? Most bugs (security-related or otherwise) are just incorrect programming. Squashing bugs helps to resolve both reliability and security problems. The OpenBSD team resolves both.. whether they're trying to fix only security bugs or not is kindof irrelevant, because they're still fixing both by fixing either. At any rate, I gave up a long time ago caring what the Linux dorks think about our masturbatory cult of correctness. I think these off-comments are funny, and personally I'm all about my/our competition using crap operating systems just because they're trendy. Meanwhile we all get the reputation of running reliable businesses that get shit done and aren't just fucking around. (And some of us aren't ever planning on running businesses, but we still are drawn by the elegance.) (-Nick)
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
looks like the theme for the 4.4 release is sorted then. _ Invite your Facebook friends to chat on Messenger http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719649/direct/01/ Can we get a sticker, too?
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
* Shizzle Cash wrote: On Jul 17, 2008, at 8:42 AM, Giancarlo Razzolini wrote: agreed. I barely can wait to see Ty Semaka artwork for 4.4. Definitively it should include monkeys. And amoebas too. I agree, monkeys should definitely be somehow incorporated into the artwork for the next release. ty draws openbsd developers as fish. and I think that we, the openbsd developers, did enough to warrant a nice topic for the next release. no need to resort to that strange monkey business. or do you want to honour a stupid remark made by l. by making him the main theme of our next release? I don't think so. we have more substantial work that goes into our next release than the stupid remark of a wanking fat penguin that all to obviously does not understand what we do.
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
I agree entirely! The OpenBSD developers should surely be raised upon shoulders for all of there work... However a mocking sticker would be rather awesome! -Jim
Re: Mailing List for SH Platform
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 09:56:07AM -0400, Bill Traynor wrote: Is there a SuperH platform specific mailing list? I don't see it listed here: http://openbsd.org/mail.html in the Platform Specific Lists section. If not, should there be? I understand OpenBSD was ported to the LanDisk: http://openbsd.org/landisk.html. There is no specific mailing list for landisk, direct the traffic to [EMAIL PROTECTED] If it is determined that there is enough landisk specific mail, a mailing list would be created at that time. Dale Rahn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On 17.07-14:16, Jason Dixon wrote: [ ... ] ... but i was also making the point that if you don't know anything about Java client-side rendering and are not a flash or java developer perhaps you should refrain from spouting technical jargonese on the subject. i know what you're getting but i don't think it's representative of java or flash. I don't have to be a Java or Flash developer to engineer scalable web architectures (which is what I do). My original statement was that there _is_ a valid purpose for flash, particularly in client-side graphics generation. I've seen the good and bad of graphics generation, particularly with stubborn clients who insist on bad technology (GD, ImageMagick) for server-side rendering. This is where I'm coming from, hopefully you understand better the point I was making. Nowhere was I claiming that Java would be a bad tool (yes, I know it's a language) because I simply don't know what classes are available for it for performing client-side rendering. I *will* go out on a limb and suggest that it's highly unlikely there are any native classes for Java that optimize client-side graphics rendering like Flash. Prove me wrong, perhaps I can recommend it in a future project. ;) jogl? but that is actually for client side rendering and not the image manipulation that you appear to be talking about. there are plenty of functions in the core java library that could also do the image manipulaton. as i am sure you are well aware the trade-off between transmitting the full image data to the client for manipulation or transmitting a thumbnail and performing manipulations server-side are application specific, not client specific. of course, we are now almost completely lost because we have mixed the client side (which was the initial discussion) with the server side and integration issues of the two. suffice to say, there is no real reason that a flash client couldn't be implemented in java. [ ... ] p.p.s: i expect the server side demands you are experiencing are from a jvm on the server not the actual application demands that you are correlating them to (although i do understand the overlap) This has nothing to do with Java or JVMs. Graphics rendering always requires high amounts of CPU, regardless of the language/solution/platform. ... and now i'm even more confused as this appears to contradict your previous assertion that flash was more performant. my point was that flash is compiled code and thus does these things faster than inside a jvm. i don't believe your server performance issues relate, in anyway, to the client side software. unless, of course, your point was that flash makes it easier to move the image processing (NOT rendering) off to the client. having implemented this a couple of times in java client i'd have to personally disagree whilst appreciating that common opinion may vary (i.e. flash has more focused development kit for this stuff). -- t t w
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On 17.07-13:21, Marco Peereboom wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 06:07:05PM +, n0g0013 wrote: On 17.07-10:13, Marco Peereboom wrote: [ ... ] I am saying that each java app requires its own java runtime because the previous/next version is incompatible. Nothing new here. this is wrong. java versions are largely compatible and most requirements are library problems, not runtime compatibility (although i believe distribution rights to core components would often restrict packaging for forward compatibility). I love your optimism. Integration efforts I worked on for a large company always required to drop 1 run time environment per app. I promise we tried really really hard to make that one. This meant that when a loaded box went out the door there were as many as 8 java runtimes installed on your box. Spare me the but my app is totally 1337 and doesn't need that; it simply doesn't apply to many scenarios. you are the first person in a long time to accuse me of optimism, i suppose i should thank you for that, but the statement was made from experience. whatever your personal experiences i still maintain that your orginal statement was wrong, or at the very least, an extremely harsh assessment. -- t t w
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On 17.07-19:33, Edd Barrett wrote: [ ... ] If you get java awt rendering animations half as decently as the official flash plugin, I would be suprised! i apologise if i'm becoming overly terse but it's becoming clear that any attempt at discourse here deteriorates, at best, to pissing contest and i'm finding it difficult to dissern between that behaviour and genuine enquiry. the short answer is, it is perfectly possible. -- t t w
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On 17.07-15:35, Nick Guenther wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Edd Barrett [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you get java awt rendering animations half as decently as the official flash plugin, I would be suprised! [ ... ] Flash is definitely faster. [ ... ] i agree with the faster point but the key issue with java is not getting it to render stuff well, it is with the amount of effort required to actually develop the application. flash has cool tools for animating 2D objects, and performing interactions with them; java requires you to write a shit load of code for the same effect. i'm sure SUN was/is hoping that someone will develop a java based animation toolkit to compete with flash but that's yet to happen. in short, flash is a good tool. we'll all look forward to the day that the formats, behaviours and protocols are opened so that we can implement a native, opensource viewer. -- t t w
Re: Mailing List for SH Platform
On Thu, 17 Jul 2008, Dale Rahn wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 09:56:07AM -0400, Bill Traynor wrote: Is there a SuperH platform specific mailing list? I don't see it listed here: http://openbsd.org/mail.html in the Platform Specific Lists section. If not, should there be? I understand OpenBSD was ported to the LanDisk: http://openbsd.org/landisk.html. There is no specific mailing list for landisk, direct the traffic to [EMAIL PROTECTED] If it is determined that there is enough landisk specific mail, a mailing list would be created at that time. Dale Rahn [EMAIL PROTECTED] FWIW, I've always posted all things related to sh (Plextors) on [EMAIL PROTECTED] I have about 6 of them running an older version of OpenBSD, probably the first or second release. diana
Tomcat?
We may be looking at a project using Servlets, .. I see tomcat in packages, but are there any 'gotchas' running on a normal production system? There doesn't seem to be anything current in the archives (since 3.4). Thanks! Lee
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 11:05:49AM +0300, Gregory Edigarov wrote: just cannot imagine how could an amoeba jerk off you will certainly get a prize... :-) :-))) : :D I try to imagine, but the amoeba splits. Sort of like linux. Paul.
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
n0g0013 writes: any attempt at discourse here deteriorates, at best, to pissing contest This is what should go on the t-shirt.
Re: GPL version 4
On Wed, 16 Jul 2008, David Collier-Brown wrote: Morton Harrow wrote: Shouldn't GPL versions follow the bright example of TeX, and thus the next version be 3.1? To quote Fred Weigel, they should be 3 3.1 3.14 3.141 3.1415 3.14159 --dave -- David Collier-Brown| Always do right. This will gratify Sun Microsystems, Toronto | some people and astonish the rest [EMAIL PROTECTED] | -- Mark Twain (905) 943-1983, cell: (647) 833-9377, (800) 555-9786 x56583 bridge: (877) 385-4099 code: 506 9191# Nah. Should be GPL V-infinity That way there won't be any more. Cheers, Dick Johnson Penguin : Linux version 2.6.22.1 on an i686 machine (5588.29 BogoMips). My book : http://www.AbominableFirebug.com/ _ The information transmitted in this message is confidential and may be privileged. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, or other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify Analogic Corporation immediately - by replying to this message or by sending an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] - and destroy all copies of this information, including any attachments, without reading or disclosing them. Thank you.
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
ty draws openbsd developers as fish. and I think that we, the openbsd developers, did enough to warrant a nice topic for the next release. no need to resort to that strange monkey business. or do you want to honour a stupid remark made by l. by making him the main theme of our next release? I don't think so. we have more substantial work that goes into our next release than the stupid remark of a wanking fat penguin that all to obviously does not understand what we do. Personally, I think It'd be a nice continuation from the theme of the 4.3 release. _ Invite your Facebook friends to chat on Messenger http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/101719649/direct/01/
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 dermiste @ 2008/07/17 07:47: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 6:01 AM, scar [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Marco Peereboom @ 2008/07/16 23:00: Flash is only good for a few things such as naked ladies performing anatomic tricks, dude getting punched in the ding-dong Trogodor the burninator. Nothing makes me happier than visiting a website and having some ad puking its irrelevant content on me. there are a lot of informative and useful videos and documentaries on youtube, and a lot of news or otherwise public service websites utilize youtube for their own video content, as well. *cough* XviD + Vorbis *cough* And no, Flash does not help with content protection (read DRM). i'm not quite sure what you're saying, but i'll give interpretation a try. i'm not advocating flash over a fantastic alternative like xvid+vorbis. the point is the masses use flash now. i don't know or care why it has become popular as a medium, but it is. it is valuable in that it is not just used for stupid videos mentioned above, which many people might think, but is used for informative and other public service needs, like is mentioned elsewhere in this thread about skydiving equipment. if i had to guess i would compare it to your friendly government website requiring internet explorer. they don't have the skilled staff to write a web page based on standards since they have sold out to microsoft, so they continue on the easy route and use some microsoft website builder which breaks countless standards but is easy for them to implement. now they are serving 90% of internet users with a public service which was otherwise unavailable. meanwhile, the other 10% of people like us are bitter. overall, though, a great benefit has been bestowed upon society as a whole. blah blah viruses, blah blah security holes.. it obviuosly doesn't matter if it is easy and serves a large majority. and i'm not sure where content protection came into this or what it has to do with anything. i hate content protection though, i'll say that much. who are we to deny a user their right to the content on the internet? i think we should stop arguing on moral grounds and put effort towards a viable and secure solution to those without a microsoft operating system. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- iD8DBQFIf8ZtXhfCJNu98qARCM8IAJ9XtBurknekhsa391d7c1UecrJ3tACgt6Zv V4CMykPr3qLMNnaXLKy54OA= =G8uy -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 10:33 AM, Siju George [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/706950 Again a mis representation in pulic? I think the software if free ( freedom) each proyect has the freedom to do the best effort posibly. Think only in BSD world (Net, Free, Open) three BSD operating system with different goals. If you want give credit to the Linus words then continue the thread, if no, it can be closed subject. Mr. Torvalds is free to talk any thing, we are freedom to listen or no listen your bad words. Regards. ficovh
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
On Jul 17, 2008, at 2:37 PM, Marc Balmer wrote: * Shizzle Cash wrote: On Jul 17, 2008, at 8:42 AM, Giancarlo Razzolini wrote: agreed. I barely can wait to see Ty Semaka artwork for 4.4. Definitively it should include monkeys. And amoebas too. I agree, monkeys should definitely be somehow incorporated into the artwork for the next release. ty draws openbsd developers as fish. and I think that we, the openbsd developers, did enough to warrant a nice topic for the next release. no need to resort to that strange monkey business. or do you want to honour a stupid remark made by l. by making him the main theme of our next release? I don't think so. we have more substantial work that goes into our next release than the stupid remark of a wanking fat penguin that all to obviously does not understand what we do. I concede your point. My agreement wasn't meant to dishonor the dev team. I just agree with a previous statement that owning something that was intended as an insult can diffuse the intended malice while at the same time providing a bit of mirth for the person at whom the insult was directed.
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
So I can't call a spade a spade? Sorry buddy I don't do politics well. If something sucks it is perfectly ok to call that out. I haven't even begun being harsh towards java and/or flash. On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 08:42:01PM +, n0g0013 wrote: On 17.07-13:21, Marco Peereboom wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 06:07:05PM +, n0g0013 wrote: On 17.07-10:13, Marco Peereboom wrote: [ ... ] I am saying that each java app requires its own java runtime because the previous/next version is incompatible. Nothing new here. this is wrong. java versions are largely compatible and most requirements are library problems, not runtime compatibility (although i believe distribution rights to core components would often restrict packaging for forward compatibility). I love your optimism. Integration efforts I worked on for a large company always required to drop 1 run time environment per app. I promise we tried really really hard to make that one. This meant that when a loaded box went out the door there were as many as 8 java runtimes installed on your box. Spare me the but my app is totally 1337 and doesn't need that; it simply doesn't apply to many scenarios. you are the first person in a long time to accuse me of optimism, i suppose i should thank you for that, but the statement was made from experience. whatever your personal experiences i still maintain that your orginal statement was wrong, or at the very least, an extremely harsh assessment. -- t t w
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
Jason LaRiviere wrote: The current breed of standards-based web developers - which in my estimation form the bulk of all web developers currently doing anything anyone is seeing, and of which I am fairly representative, would think nothing of the sort. Truly well-versed web developers find cross-browser issues bothersome, but far from insurmountable; certainly not worthy of abandoning xhtml, css and javascript for something with funny names and registered trademarks. [...] At a bank? Yeesh... Even javascript is completely unnecessary in many cases. I've yet to see an online banking system that's usable via /usr/bin/lynx, even though the browser supports both SSL and cookies. And we're talking about a site you log into specifically to shift numbers around... There need not be any images, videos, scripts, or other bloat... -- Stephen Takacs [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://perlguru.net/ 4149 FD56 D078 C988 9027 1EB4 04CC F80F 72CB 09DA
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 10:03 PM, n0g0013 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: in short, flash is a good tool. we'll all look forward to the day that the formats, behaviours and protocols are opened so that we can implement a native, opensource viewer. Like, this month? Google: openscreen. Flash protocol is open source. -- Best Regards Edd http://students.dec.bournemouth.ac.uk/ebarrett
Re: This is what Linus Torvalds calls openBSD crowd
Umm.. Well if the OS is properly documented, why would you need to ask the question in the first place? It's one thing to read things for yourself throroughly, and another to just take some answer given to you. I'm sure the people saying RTFM would tell you to do that unless it wasn't actuall in TFM... OpenBSD's documentation is one of, if not, the best documented OS' out there. Believe me, I've used quite a few. Thanks for playing! Original Message: Eheh he's right :-) If you guys get your heads out of your asses and actually read his words with the use of some common sense you might get what he means. It's a balanced opinion. From what i've seen so far in this list, the BSD-crowd *is* a bunch of masturbating monkeys anyway, i get much more decent reasonable answers to my problems in any Debian list, along with constructive criticism. Here it's rtfm and chest-thumping. Flame away boys, so i can gingerly ignore you :)
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 09:03:14PM +, n0g0013 wrote: --- remove drivel --- in short, flash is a good tool. we'll all look forward to the day that the formats, behaviours and protocols are opened so that we can implement a native, opensource viewer. No it is not. I sucks and is retarded. It breaks the internet as we know it and not for the better. Your we does not include me and many others.
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
And I type like a retard too... On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 06:49:28PM -0500, Marco Peereboom wrote: On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 09:03:14PM +, n0g0013 wrote: --- remove drivel --- in short, flash is a good tool. we'll all look forward to the day that the formats, behaviours and protocols are opened so that we can implement a native, opensource viewer. No it is not. I sucks and is retarded. It breaks the internet as we know it and not for the better. Your we does not include me and many others.
Re: Install VMware 5.5 or 6.0 at OpenBSD 4.3?
Hi, I`m running XP on qemu, using nat, but I`ve used bridge too.
The command is:
sudo /usr/local/bin/qemu -m 756 -net nic -net
tap,ifname=tun0,script=/etc/qemu-XP_ifup
/home/eu/virtuals/windowsXP.img
/etc/qemu-XP_ifup:
-
#! /bin/sh
_ETHER=tun0
_BRIDGE=bridge0
# Let the environment over-ride this
[ $BRIDGE ] || BRIDGE=${_BRIDGE}
[ $ETHER ] || ETHER=${_ETHER}
if test `id -u` -ne 0; then
SUDO=sudo
fi
echo -n {$1 ($BRIDGE - $ETHER)
# Set the tun device into layer2 mode
$SUDO /sbin/ifconfig $1 link0 up
# Set up our bridge
$SUDO /sbin/ifconfig $1 group tun /dev/null 21
$SUDO /sbin/ifconfig $BRIDGE create /dev/null 21 {
$SUDO brconfig $BRIDGE rule block in on $ETHER dst 33:33:0:0:0:12
$SUDO brconfig $BRIDGE rule block in on $ETHER dst 01:00:5e:00:00:12
}
/sbin/ifconfig bridge | sed -n '/^bridge[0-9]*/{s/:.*$//;p;}' | while read brif
do
$SUDO brconfig $brif del $ETHER /dev/null 21
$SUDO brconfig $brif del $1 /dev/null 21
done
$SUDO brconfig $BRIDGE add $ETHER up
$SUDO brconfig $BRIDGE add $1 up || true
echo }
It`s working nicelly with kqemu, I`m running snapshot 02/07/08 i386:
--
OpenBSD kanjiru.nowhere 4.4 GENERIC.MP#783 i386
--
Fabio
Re: Mailing List for SH Platform
I have about 6 of them running an older version of OpenBSD, probably the first or second release. Landisk -current as a .5TB Topfield PVR - TCP/IP bridge / cache here. I only wish I could get more of 'em.
Re: tcpdump -X
this kind of replies do have a long tradition in this list - probably most of the times for a good reason! On the other hand, calling people idiots, isn't really polite, to put it mildly, neither serves any good cause! I fully agree with your definition of the correct order of operation and it wasn't my intension to abuse any resources. I don't know if you read the whole thread but my initial question was a bit different! I didn't just jumped-in with the question 'what's MTU'. It was a result of a kind reply to my problem and after looking the man pages, where this acronym wasn't defined, assumed that a generic term like this will, most probably, produce a lot of unrelated and misleading hits in Google. Proved wrong! Still this wasn't an outcome of being lazy doing my homework. As a result, I think you heavily exaggerate with your strong wording. Now even more of us think you are an idiot.
Re: UPDATE: mozilla-firefox-3.0
--- On Thu, 7/17/08, Marco Peereboom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't even begun being harsh towards java and/or flash. The problem with flash is that you just cannot get away from it on the web these days. A lot of sites use it. gnash is an okay solution, but I still cannot view a lot of content. And I'm not happy that netflix went with a ms solution for their instant viewing content, which is worse. The whole flash situation just sucks. Brian
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-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 10:45 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: kolya: F`kna`
Re: CARP not leaving backup state
Hi William, I don't know for sure, but I remember dealing with this kind of problem and setting preempt did work, maybe worth a try: /etc/sysctl.conf: net.inet.carp.preempt=1 Anyone else? HTH, Vinicius William Stuart escreveu: (Sorry if this is a dupe, not sure if you had to be a subscriber to send to the list) Hello all, I am a new to OpenBSD but not *nix in general... I have two systems running OpenBSD 4.2. It has 9 carp interfaces, and has been running fine for months. All of a sudden, both systems are in BACKUP state. I halted one of the systems then on the remaining system rebooted, shut down and restarted, run ifconfig carp1 state master, changed the sysctls, removed the hostname files, rebooted, then replaced the hostname files, fiddled with the advskew and lots of other things. Even with no other system running, carp will not go into MASTER state, period, no errors, no logs. I tried setting net.inet.carp.log=1 and 2 and 1000, I see no logs anywhere in /var/log. Anything else I can look at? William
Re: Mailing List for SH Platform
On Fri, 18 Jul 2008, Pedro la Peu wrote: I have about 6 of them running an older version of OpenBSD, probably the first or second release. Landisk -current as a .5TB Topfield PVR - TCP/IP bridge / cache here. I only wish I could get more of 'em. that's cool, I wanted to use them with my Relook satellite receiver for storage.
