On Tue, Oct 30, 2007 at 08:26:07PM +, Miod Vallat wrote:
Is there a list similar to Linux kernel janitors also for OpenBSD? It's a
list
of tasks for which you don't have to be experienced in the particular OS
internals to be able to complete them properly.
No, there isn't.
There
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:23:53AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
On 31.10-08:40, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
Yeah, right.
[ ... ]
I don't understand. Is newbies learning new things a waste to you? Do
you think they won't really learn anything unless the patch is
approved? Or will the
On Sat, 3 Nov 2007 12:01:46 +0100
Karel Kulhavy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We've got a PR database with bugs in it, and we NEVER get fixes from
outsiders. That's not news to anyone, if they actually wanted to do
Maybe the outsiders just cannot find the PR database. I put
openbsd pr
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:49:03AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
surely there must be _some_ merit to creating a list of lower level
development tasks (as dictated by those with experience to judge) to
encourage people to enter the development cycle.
The most amusing thing about this
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 04:55:20PM +0100, Pierre Riteau wrote:
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 10:30:24AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote:
On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
we see how few people actually do
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 12:01:46PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
| On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:23:53AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
| We've got a PR database with bugs in it, and we NEVER get fixes from
| outsiders. That's not news to anyone, if they actually wanted to do
|
| Maybe the outsiders
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:05:20AM -0700, Dag Richards wrote:
n0g0013 wrote:
On 31.10-11:12, Nick Guenther wrote:
[ ... ]
and i would suggest that the severe and prevelant attitude toward the
possibilty of poor patches or under-educated actions is the most
significant barrier to encouraging
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 12:16:50PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:49:03AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
surely there must be _some_ merit to creating a list of lower level
development tasks (as dictated by those with experience to judge) to
encourage people to
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 12:16:50PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:49:03AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
Surely they are too busy whining at us for lists, to actually search
for the lists.
I'll say it again more clearly -- all of you whiners just plain suck.
Who
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 12:01:46PM +0100, Karel Kulhavy wrote:
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 09:23:53AM -0600, Theo de Raadt wrote:
...
We've got a PR database with bugs in it, and we NEVER get fixes from
outsiders. That's not news to anyone, if they actually wanted to do
Maybe the outsiders
On Nov 3, 2007 4:29 AM, Karel Kulhavy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They write code, then they submit it, it does not suck too much and they
take the suggestions of the current project leads. Then they resubmit
better code.
The rest of us should simply buy CD's, ask and answer the occasional
Karel Kulhavy wrote:
You cannot, of course. But janitor being a rookie doesn't imply he doesn't know
what he's doing. He could be doing a job that doesn't require any special
knowledge - like rewriting documentation into a different format, fixing HTML
correctness, fixing typos and unclear
Karel Kulhavy wrote:
Maybe the outsiders just cannot find the PR database. I put
openbsd pr database into google and looked into all links on the first
page. The pr database is always mentioned, but never linked. Where is it?
This only again proof the point of waisting time try to help. How
Hi!
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 05:16:06PM -0400, Daniel Ouellet wrote:
So, start by sending diff's then. Almost every diff's I saw sent in, got
reply one way or an other.
My recent experiences differ, for my last 2 submissions (an issue with
swig, sent to ports@ after interaction with the
2007/11/3, Darren Spruell [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Nov 3, 2007 4:29 AM, Karel Kulhavy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They write code, then they submit it, it does not suck too much and they
take the suggestions of the current project leads. Then they resubmit
better code.
The rest of us
Hannah Schroeter wrote:
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 05:16:06PM -0400, Daniel Ouellet wrote:
So, start by sending diff's then. Almost every diff's I saw sent in, got
reply one way or an other.
My recent experiences differ, for my last 2 submissions (an issue with
swig, sent to ports@ after
On Sat, Nov 03, 2007 at 10:30:05PM +0100, Hannah Schroeter wrote:
So, start by sending diff's then. Almost every diff's I saw sent in, got
reply one way or an other.
My recent experiences differ, for my last 2 submissions (an issue with
swig, sent to ports@ after interaction with the
This include example and full diff's below as well.
May be this is a waist of time, but will see.
Some say they needs some details, then here is an example, and this took
me only about 30 minutes or so from start to finish, including getting
the source tree.
Doesn't mean it will be pick up,
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 12:57:44PM -0700, Ted Unangst wrote:
On 10/31/07, Peter N. M. Hansteen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
n0g0013 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
i didn't find it on google (i am a google retard), if you post me the
link not only will i offer to maintain it for the developers
n0g0013 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Development is not the same process as writing a whiny mail.
that is a shame. i can probably better understand the relectance to
re-visit this if it has failed before. perhaps, others are right,
perhaps linux can tolerate it because it's not as good as
n0g0013 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Development is not the same process as writing a whiny mail.
that is a shame. i can probably better understand the relectance to
re-visit this if it has failed before. perhaps, others are right,
perhaps linux can tolerate it because it's not as good as
Agreed
I needed to peek OpenBSD code a couple months ago and found it
extremely readable. Doing simple tasks can be a better path leading
to new kernel engineers.
Just posting your task list on this list isn't a commitment to coach
new developers, but can provide a solid material to start
Gerardo Santana Gsmez Garrido wrote:
2007/10/30, Miod Vallat [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Is there a list similar to Linux kernel janitors also for OpenBSD? It's a list
of tasks for which you don't have to be experienced in the particular OS
internals to be able to complete them properly.
No,
Just posting your task list on this list isn't a commitment to coach
new developers, but can provide a solid material to start coding.
They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
to write in
On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
to write in english...
How can we get started on the code unless we have some idea of where
to start
On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
to write in english...
How can we get started on the code
Nick Guenther wrote:
On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They don't need a list. They could already have started
coding. Yet
we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead,
they choose
to write in english...
How can we get started on the code unless we
On 31.10-08:40, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
Yeah, right.
[ ... ]
I don't understand. Is newbies learning new things a waste to you? Do
you think they won't really learn anything unless the patch is
approved? Or will the patches not be subject to peer review? Or are
you worried at who
On 31.10-08:20, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
to write in english...
on the counter-side we appear to have people who can code but are
unable to
On 10/31/07, Bob Beck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
* Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-10-31 08:40]:
On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Obviously patches will be subject to peer review. Even if a patch isn't
approved, the coder should have learned something new and
* Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2007-10-31 08:40]:
On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
to write in english...
How can we get
On 31.10-11:12, Nick Guenther wrote:
[ ... ]
and i would suggest that the severe and prevelant attitude toward the
possibilty of poor patches or under-educated actions is the most
significant barrier to encouraging new/young developers.
Well that's the point of it; or at least, a useful
On 31.10-08:20, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
to write in english...
on the counter-side we appear to have people who can code but are
unable to
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 03:01:03PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 31.10-08:20, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
to write in english...
on the
On 10/31/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 31.10-08:40, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
Yeah, right.
[ ... ]
and i would suggest that the severe and prevelant attitude toward the
possibilty of poor patches or under-educated actions is the most
significant barrier to
On 31.10-08:40, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
Yeah, right.
[ ... ]
I don't understand. Is newbies learning new things a waste to you? Do
you think they won't really learn anything unless the patch is
approved? Or will the patches not be subject to peer review? Or are
you worried at who
and i would suggest that the severe and prevelant attitude toward the
possibilty of poor patches or under-educated actions is the most
significant barrier to encouraging new/young developers.
No, the severe and prevelent attitude toward the possiblilty of poor
patches or
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
surely there must be _some_ merit to creating a list of lower level
development tasks (as dictated by those with experience to judge) to
encourage people to enter the development cycle.
The most amusing thing about this thread is that such a list has been
published
n0g0013 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
i personally find it quite
disheartening to hear the attitude that prevails here but that's the
community's decision. it certainaly seems to refelect the attitute
of it's leaders (developers).
Instead of doing something useful like reading code, identifying
On 31.10-09:49, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
I'll say it again more clearly -- all of you whiners just plain suck.
We know you'll never write diffs, and it is up to you to prove us
wrong. If you don't write diffs, we have a difficult time feeling any
loss.
a software community is made of
On 31.10-15:25, mickey wrote:
[ ... ]
on the counter-side we appear to have people who can code but are
unable to communicate productively otherwise.
as opposed to a majority of people who talk and not code anything?
here is a solution for you -- read http://openbsd.org/query-pr.html
and
snip
as opposed to a majority of people who talk and not code anything?
here is a solution for you -- read http://openbsd.org/query-pr.html
and start fixing those. pretty simple solution if you get no bugs
of your own.
cu
--
Good point.
I was wondering what to do next, once/if I can finish
On 10/31/07, Nick Guenther [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
to write in english...
How can we get
surely there must be _some_ merit to creating a list of lower level
development tasks (as dictated by those with experience to judge) to
encourage people to enter the development cycle.
The most amusing thing about this thread is that such a list has been
published for years (it's
On 31.10-09:25, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
Lists have been made before, by a few developers.
It did not work then, and it won't work now.
Development is not the same process as writing a whiny mail.
that is a shame. i can probably better understand the relectance to
re-visit this if it
Okay, so if we're looking for a list of simple tasks to train
ourselves, PR list is a good place.
At least I've learned something today (mandatory whine : why did we
have to wait the 17th post to see this list mentioned ?).
On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 31.10-08:40, Theo
On 31.10-10:05, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
the problem is not our lists.
[ ... ]
but no. they intend to keep whining, and saying it is our fault.
where you get the your fault from is unfathomable. neither is anyone
suggesting that the problem is our lists, simply that a list of
simpler
On 31.10-11:12, Nick Guenther wrote:
[ ... ]
and i would suggest that the severe and prevelant attitude toward the
possibilty of poor patches or under-educated actions is the most
significant barrier to encouraging new/young developers.
Well that's the point of it; or at least, a
On 31.10-09:53, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
There is no community that you speak of.
that much is apparent.
There are people who write diffs, and people who _don't_ write diffs.
In that sub-group of people who don't write diffs, there are a few who
whine loudly and say we are the reason
On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 13:41 -0200, Marcus Andree wrote:
snip
If we had such documentation, even if it isn't kept up-to-date, it would be a
start point. As I stated in an earlier message, OpenBSD code is very, very
Design and Implementation of the 4.4. BSD Operating System
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 10:30:24AM -0400, Nick Guenther wrote:
On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
to write in english...
How can
All the developers currently active in OpenBSD have followed the same
process: scratch their own itch.
Start using OpenBSD. Notice things which are not perfect (there are a lot
of them), fix them. Get noticed. Once you send enough correct fixes, you
get an account. If your fixes are bogus, we
On 31.10-16:44, Artur Grabowski wrote:
[ ... ]
surely there must be _some_ merit to creating a list of lower level
development tasks (as dictated by those with experience to judge) to
encourage people to enter the development cycle.
The most amusing thing about this thread is that such a
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 03:01:03PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 31.10-08:20, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
to write in english...
on the
On 10/31/07, n0g0013 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
why must we railroad ourselves to a decision before the discussion
has even happened? it would appear that most do not want the discussion
to happen even though they are neither obligated to participate or
action the ideas within it. that is
They don't need a list. They could already have started coding. Yet
we see how few people actually do start coding. Instead, they choose
to write in english...
on the counter-side we appear to have people who can code but are
unable to communicate productively otherwise.
we
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 03:56:29PM +, n0g0013 wrote:
On 31.10-09:49, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
I'll say it again more clearly -- all of you whiners just plain suck.
We know you'll never write diffs, and it is up to you to prove us
wrong. If you don't write diffs, we have a
On 10/31/07, n0g0013 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 31.10-09:49, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
I'll say it again more clearly -- all of you whiners just plain suck.
We know you'll never write diffs, and it is up to you to prove us
wrong. If you don't write diffs, we have a difficult time
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 01:41:14PM -0200, Marcus Andree wrote:
snip
as opposed to a majority of people who talk and not code anything?
here is a solution for you -- read http://openbsd.org/query-pr.html
and start fixing those. pretty simple solution if you get no bugs
of your own.
cu
n0g0013 wrote:
On 31.10-11:12, Nick Guenther wrote:
[ ... ]
and i would suggest that the severe and prevelant attitude toward the
possibilty of poor patches or under-educated actions is the most
significant barrier to encouraging new/young developers.
Well that's the point of it; or at least,
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 03:50:14PM +, n0g0013 wrote:
On 31.10-15:25, mickey wrote:
[ ... ]
on the counter-side we appear to have people who can code but are
unable to communicate productively otherwise.
as opposed to a majority of people who talk and not code anything?
here is a
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 03:28:03PM +, n0g0013 wrote:
On 31.10-11:12, Nick Guenther wrote:
[ ... ]
and i would suggest that the severe and prevelant attitude toward the
possibilty of poor patches or under-educated actions is the most
significant barrier to encouraging new/young
Vincent GROSS wrote:
Okay, so if we're looking for a list of simple tasks to train
ourselves, PR list is a good place.
At least I've learned something today (mandatory whine : why did we
have to wait the 17th post to see this list mentioned ?).
the PR database is quite well visible on the
On 10/31/07, Marcus Andree [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If we had such documentation, even if it isn't kept up-to-date, it would be a
start point. As I stated in an earlier message, OpenBSD code is very, very
readable. It could be used in lots of college classes around the world. A
book could
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 03:50:14PM +, n0g0013 wrote:
On 31.10-15:25, mickey wrote:
here is a solution for you -- read http://openbsd.org/query-pr.html
and start fixing those. pretty simple solution if you get no bugs
of your own.
anyone, who thinks that learning and development
On 10/31/07, n0g0013 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 31.10-09:53, Theo de Raadt wrote:
[ ... ]
There is no community that you speak of.
that much is apparent.
There are people who write diffs, and people who _don't_ write diffs.
In that sub-group of people who don't write diffs, there are
Theo de Raadt wrote:
geez, is this kindergarden?
Not yet, despite valiant efforts to the contrary.
CDs shipped today. I might even use 'em.
I do use this list. One of few refuges of sanity.
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 05:03:24PM +0100, Vincent GROSS wrote:
On 10/31/07, Theo de Raadt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We've got a PR database with bugs in it, and we NEVER get fixes from
outsiders. That's not news to anyone, if they actually wanted to do
more than whine whine whine.
Okay,
I'll say it again more clearly -- all of you whiners just plain suck.
We know you'll never write diffs, and it is up to you to prove us
wrong. If you don't write diffs, we have a difficult time feeling any
loss.
a software community is made of more than developers.
Clearly, you have no
n0g0013 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
i didn't find it on google (i am a google retard), if you post me the
link not only will i offer to maintain it for the developers but will
endeavour to link-up with the website team to ensure it is easily
found.
Unless I'm very mistaken what art was talking
On 10/31/07, Benjamin M. A'Lee [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Surely the PR list is a fairly obvious place to look for things that need
fixing?
For whatever reason, it wasn't.
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq1.html#Support doesn't mention it, and
the PR list, though linked on the front page, isn't
On 10/31/07, Peter N. M. Hansteen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
n0g0013 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
i didn't find it on google (i am a google retard), if you post me the
link not only will i offer to maintain it for the developers but will
endeavour to link-up with the website team to ensure it
On Wed, Oct 31, 2007 at 07:28:05PM +0100, Peter N. M. Hansteen wrote:
Unless I'm very mistaken what art was talking about is even linked
from the www.openbsd.org front page.
For anyone still searching for art@'s mystical, elusive list, here's how
to find it...
G o o g l e
Men,
This is a long list of emails. I read them all for fun. You want to know
where to start, then you can simply do very simple things if you want as
simple as taking the code and check for very simple style(9) stuff as
simple as.
spacespacespacetab
for example. style(9) is very specific
On 2007 Oct 31, at 8:01 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
surely there must be _some_ merit to creating a list of lower
level development tasks (as dictated by those with experience to
judge) to encourage people to enter the development cycle.
First, you're assuming that there exists
Is there a list similar to Linux kernel janitors also for OpenBSD? It's a list
of tasks for which you don't have to be experienced in the particular OS
internals to be able to complete them properly.
CL
Is there a list similar to Linux kernel janitors also for OpenBSD? It's a list
of tasks for which you don't have to be experienced in the particular OS
internals to be able to complete them properly.
No, there isn't.
There are, however, two de-facto janitors for the OpenBSD kernels:
martin@
2007/10/30, Miod Vallat [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Is there a list similar to Linux kernel janitors also for OpenBSD? It's a
list
of tasks for which you don't have to be experienced in the particular OS
internals to be able to complete them properly.
No, there isn't.
There are, however, two
On 30.10-20:26, Miod Vallat wrote:
[ ... ] That's when you need as much support as possible. And
that's the kind of support I, as an individual, can not provide.
i believe the task list itself would be positive , even if not much
happens around it. they are good for the community as
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