Re: auto_upgrade.conf et al man pages or documentation?
cho...@jtan.com wrote: > Chris Bennett writes: > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 10:56:07AM +1300, Shane Lazarus wrote: > > > > > > So, I just ran sysupgrade with no options to see what would happen. > > That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. This is misc@, and somewhere in the world the sun is rising.
Re: auto_upgrade.conf et al man pages or documentation?
Chris Bennett writes: > On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 10:56:07AM +1300, Shane Lazarus wrote: > > > > So, I just ran sysupgrade with no options to see what would happen. That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Turn your computer in. You are incapable of handling one. > > If someone would be so kind as to point me in the right direction for how > > to prevent sysupgrade from being unsane, it would be much appreciated. The entire script is 208 widely-spaced-out lines of clear, simple shell. Including comments. Read the damn thing. Matthew
Re: auto_upgrade.conf et al man pages or documentation?
Hi Jacob Thanks for that. Shane On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 4:28 PM Jacob Adams wrote: > > On 10/17/19 9:49 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > > Shane Lazarus wrote: > > > >> I was interested in what it would do by default, and in how I could alter > >> those defaults if I did not like them. > >> > >> The sysupgrade man page informed me of a configuration file. > > > > Your complaint directly referenced the configuration filename > > /auto_upgrade.conf > > > > That filename is not mentioned in the sysupgrade man page, as you just > > claimed. > > > > In fact, it is mentioned nowhere. Your following complaints are that > > it is mentioned nowhere. > > Quoting directly from https://man.openbsd.org/sysupgrade : > "FILES > > /auto_upgrade.conf > Response file for the ramdisk kernel." > > Shane, you appear to be on the right track. From what I can tell it seems to > be > the same thing as install.conf in autoinstall. > > According to autoinstall(8): > > "The response file is a line-oriented ASCII text file. The format of each > line is: > > question = answer > > question is an installer question (not including the question mark) or a > non-ambiguous part of it, consisting of whitespace separated words. answer is > the answer to the question. Passwords may be in plaintext, encrypted with > encrypt(1), or set to ‘*’ (13 '*'s) to disable password logins, > only > permitting alternative access methods (for example, ssh(1) keys)." > > Therefore it seems that to ensure that the sets you do not want installed are > not installed you can use the "Set name(s)" question. > > For example to just install the base system and no other sets, hypothetically > you would put: > "Set name(s) = -all base66.tgz bsd.mp bsd" in /auto_upgrade.conf > > However, looking at the source code this file is created by sysupgrade: > > "cat <<__EOT >/auto_upgrade.conf > Location of sets = disk > Pathname to the sets = /home/_sysupgrade/ > Set name(s) = done > Directory does not contain SHA256.sig. Continue without verification = yes > __EOT" > > Thus you can't really change this unless you want to edit the script directly. > > The easiest method to install a limited number of sets would be to use > sysupgrade -n and then remove the sets you do not want from /home/_sysupgrade > before rebooting. > > Hope this helps, > Jacob >
Re: auto_upgrade.conf et al man pages or documentation?
On 10/17/19 9:49 PM, Theo de Raadt wrote: > Shane Lazarus wrote: > >> I was interested in what it would do by default, and in how I could alter >> those defaults if I did not like them. >> >> The sysupgrade man page informed me of a configuration file. > > Your complaint directly referenced the configuration filename > /auto_upgrade.conf > > That filename is not mentioned in the sysupgrade man page, as you just > claimed. > > In fact, it is mentioned nowhere. Your following complaints are that > it is mentioned nowhere. Quoting directly from https://man.openbsd.org/sysupgrade : "FILES /auto_upgrade.conf Response file for the ramdisk kernel." Shane, you appear to be on the right track. From what I can tell it seems to be the same thing as install.conf in autoinstall. According to autoinstall(8): "The response file is a line-oriented ASCII text file. The format of each line is: question = answer question is an installer question (not including the question mark) or a non-ambiguous part of it, consisting of whitespace separated words. answer is the answer to the question. Passwords may be in plaintext, encrypted with encrypt(1), or set to ‘*’ (13 '*'s) to disable password logins, only permitting alternative access methods (for example, ssh(1) keys)." Therefore it seems that to ensure that the sets you do not want installed are not installed you can use the "Set name(s)" question. For example to just install the base system and no other sets, hypothetically you would put: "Set name(s) = -all base66.tgz bsd.mp bsd" in /auto_upgrade.conf However, looking at the source code this file is created by sysupgrade: "cat <<__EOT >/auto_upgrade.conf Location of sets = disk Pathname to the sets = /home/_sysupgrade/ Set name(s) = done Directory does not contain SHA256.sig. Continue without verification = yes __EOT" Thus you can't really change this unless you want to edit the script directly. The easiest method to install a limited number of sets would be to use sysupgrade -n and then remove the sets you do not want from /home/_sysupgrade before rebooting. Hope this helps, Jacob
Re: auto_upgrade.conf et al man pages or documentation?
Shane Lazarus wrote: > I was interested in what it would do by default, and in how I could alter > those defaults if I did not like them. > > The sysupgrade man page informed me of a configuration file. Your complaint directly referenced the configuration filename /auto_upgrade.conf That filename is not mentioned in the sysupgrade man page, as you just claimed. In fact, it is mentioned nowhere. Your following complaints are that it is mentioned nowhere. So which is it? Two false claims? I think you are foaming at the mouth because a piece of software doesn't do what you want. Indeed. If you were observant, you would notice the software is designed to do what we want, because that's what we think 99% of our user community wants, and oddly we believe the other 1% of users (which might include you) should want the same, and we don't care if they are temporarily outraged (and go back to systemd) > As other configuration files are documented, I went looking for the > documentation for the configuration file. Because the previous claim is false, I don't believe you. I believe you are attempting to constructing a narrative
Re: auto_upgrade.conf et al man pages or documentation?
Shane Lazarus wrote: > I went looking for documentation on how to use the sysupgrade utility. > > I was interested in what it would do by default, and in how I could alter > those > defaults if I did not like them. > > The sysupgrade man page informed me of a configuration file. > As other configuration files are documented, I went looking for the > documentation for > the configuration file. Hi Shane, The bullshit foaming out of your mouth is astounding. Once you read the trivial script and didn't see it met your high standards (the standards you define in your original email), then you should not have run it. > > So, I just ran sysupgrade with no options to see what would happen. > > Very adventurous of you. But you did. On a system you own. Running our script. Which means you now accept our choices, and you accept them. And if you don't accept those choices, PLEASE STOP USING OPENBSD IMMEDIATELY, because this exact situation will happen again. > A step I felt was required in order to determine the defaults used. Let me get this straight. You wre not sure about our choices. You read our simple script. You then ran it. Then you got upset, and decided your butthole should substitute for your mouth and diarrhea over the openbsd mailing list, to indicate how upset the script you just read didn't do what you thought it would. Shane, you are quite a piece of work. You are precisely the type of people who should not use OpenBSD and should use something else. > > Unsurprisingly, it proceeded to install ALL of the sets, without bothering > > to prompt me, or apparently taking note of what was previously selected > > during the initial install of 6.5. > > Yes that is what it does. > > Was your disk too small, and things didn't fit? > > You haven't explained what problem you ran into. > > My problem is simply a lack of understanding of the utility, and my subsequent > inability to find documentation about configuration files. You read the code, the manual page, and the promises were completely clear. And you are upset. And you got angry. > That is my problem, and is the reason I asked for pointers on how to overcome > the > issue. You didn't ask for pointers. Instead you acted in an insulting way towards software you received for free.
Re: auto_upgrade.conf et al man pages or documentation?
Heya On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 11:25 AM Theo de Raadt wrote: > Shane Lazarus wrote: > > > Hi Folks > > > > With 6.6 being released, I figured to try out sysupgrade. > > > > Checking the man page, I note it uses the file /auto_upgrade.conf > > You checked the manual page for that filename? Why that filename? > How did you decide you need to look up that file? > > I went looking for documentation on how to use the sysupgrade utility. I was interested in what it would do by default, and in how I could alter those defaults if I did not like them. The sysupgrade man page informed me of a configuration file. As other configuration files are documented, I went looking for the documentation for the configuration file. > So, I just ran sysupgrade with no options to see what would happen. > > Very adventurous of you. > > A step I felt was required in order to determine the defaults used. > > Unsurprisingly, it proceeded to install ALL of the sets, without > bothering > > to prompt me, or apparently taking note of what was previously selected > > during the initial install of 6.5. > > Yes that is what it does. > > Was your disk too small, and things didn't fit? > > You haven't explained what problem you ran into. > > My problem is simply a lack of understanding of the utility, and my subsequent inability to find documentation about configuration files. That is my problem, and is the reason I asked for pointers on how to overcome the issue. > > This is an undesirable trait, with neither apparent documentation or > what I > > would consider to be sane defaults. > > In your opinion. > > Yep, in my own opinion, something that states it upgrades should not install sets that were not previously installed. > > If someone would be so kind as to point me in the right direction for how > > to prevent sysupgrade from being unsane, it would be much appreciated. > > Oh, that's easy. If you don't like what it does, don't use it. > Sure. Happy to completely ignore this utility, given I haven't needed it before. > > Very happy I've been able to point you in the right direction! > > Have a nice life. > > Have Fun Shane
Re: auto_upgrade.conf et al man pages or documentation?
Shane Lazarus wrote: > Hi Folks > > With 6.6 being released, I figured to try out sysupgrade. > > Checking the man page, I note it uses the file /auto_upgrade.conf You checked the manual page for that filename? Why that filename? How did you decide you need to look up that file? Shane, I'm going to call bullshit on you here. I think you wrote your email after the fact in anger, and it so so melodramatic so I'll follow your approach. > Sadly, there seems to be no man page or alias for that Because there does not need to be. > Checking through the associated autoinstall(8) man page, there is reference > to the file /upgrade.conf Because there does not need to be. > Which also has no link or alias in the man pages. Because there does not need to be. > Then I tried looking for man pages associated with /install.conf but again > without success. Because there does not need to be. > Lastly, I browsed through the FAQ, without success either, but if someone > knows what I missed there, please let me know. It isn't in the FAQ either, because there does not need to be. > So, I just ran sysupgrade with no options to see what would happen. Very adventurous of you. > Unsurprisingly, it proceeded to install ALL of the sets, without bothering > to prompt me, or apparently taking note of what was previously selected > during the initial install of 6.5. Yes that is what it does. Was your disk too small, and things didn't fit? You haven't explained what problem you ran into. > This is an undesirable trait, with neither apparent documentation or what I > would consider to be sane defaults. In your opinion. > If someone would be so kind as to point me in the right direction for how > to prevent sysupgrade from being unsane, it would be much appreciated. Oh, that's easy. If you don't like what it does, don't use it. Very happy I've been able to point you in the right direction! Have a nice life.
Re: auto_upgrade.conf et al man pages or documentation?
On Thu, Oct 17, 2019 at 03:15:16PM -0700, Chris Bennett wrote: > On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 10:56:07AM +1300, Shane Lazarus wrote: > > > > So, I just ran sysupgrade with no options to see what would happen. > > > > Unsurprisingly, it proceeded to install ALL of the sets, without bothering > > to prompt me, or apparently taking note of what was previously selected > > during the initial install of 6.5. > > It does exactly what the manual says it does. > > This is an undesirable trait, with neither apparent documentation or what I > > would consider to be sane defaults. > > I bet they are sane for the developers. > > If someone would be so kind as to point me in the right direction for how > > to prevent sysupgrade from being unsane, it would be much appreciated. > > You would have to define unsane, but `sysupgrade -n' would be a first step. Edgar
Re: auto_upgrade.conf et al man pages or documentation?
On Fri, Oct 18, 2019 at 10:56:07AM +1300, Shane Lazarus wrote: > > So, I just ran sysupgrade with no options to see what would happen. > > Unsurprisingly, it proceeded to install ALL of the sets, without bothering > to prompt me, or apparently taking note of what was previously selected > during the initial install of 6.5. > > This is an undesirable trait, with neither apparent documentation or what I > would consider to be sane defaults. > > If someone would be so kind as to point me in the right direction for how > to prevent sysupgrade from being unsane, it would be much appreciated. > I can't comment on the documentaion issues of those files. But sysupgrade is meant for a quick and easy upgrade. No hand holding. No special treatment. If you need an upgrade that is not like the way sysupgrade does it, then you will need to simply do the steps yourself manually. Just as all of us have been doing for years. All of those steps are extensively documented both in the man pages and the mailing lists. It is a tool to do one specific set of tasks. rm -r and rmdir can both remove a directory. But they are not the same tool. This topic has already been extensively and frustratingly dealt with on the list. Please don't ask for changes to sysupgrade. The questions about the documentation are relevant however. Chris Bennett
