congrats ...when I first started collecting posters circa 1998 the
members of mopo provided invaluable information which helped me avoid some
huge mistakes..I'm forever grateful..scott keep on truckinAlan
On Fri, Feb 24, 2012 at 1:08 PM, Scott Burns s...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
I can’t let
ran out to see this before the awards..just home..storyline
predictable..acting excellent..nice odes to this and that...some things i
liked besides the dog..actually the william powell\ astor relationship was
nice.. I also liked the fred astaire dance moves at the end..Only
distraction for me
just a comment on cirque de soleilI thought they did a reasonably goos
job at matching the acrobatics to the movies portrayed in the
background..now wouldn't it have been nice to show the greatest show on
earth or trapeze in the baqckgorund? Speaking of which kirby i might be
interested in
Why is the Belgian valued so much more than the Argentine?rarity?artwork?Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
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- Forwarded by Alan Heimann/UHMC on 07/22/2009 03:53 PM -
From: Alan Heimann/UHMC
hi james..in terms of the poster being far better visual art than the film..one comes to mind right away..the beast with 1,000,000 eyesi always liked this poster..i obtained the 1/2 sheet but had never seen the movie...what a surprise when i finally saw it (i guess spielberg borrowed the idea
it's funny when i first started going to poster auctions i thought the La
doce vita italian four foglio smoking style was the best poster ever and i
thought i would never own it ..then some years ago i came into some
unexpected money and i own that poster (it's not for sale)...so if the
stars
DraculaAug 28, 2009 04:36:31 PM, dialmbb...@aol.com wrote:
what's your favorite Movie from a play? i believe that the answer should be a movie that had few changes from the play.
mine is: DIAL M FOR MURDER
Dial M for Murder premiered in 1952 as a BBC television play, before being performed on
no michael you won't lose any sleep..it is i who will lose sleep when i want to purchase the posters from you...sweet dreamsi'd like to say that the above is said in jest..but this is a new reality for all of us and its impact on our hobby and business for dealers is unknown...i take some solace
should read the e-mails more closely...looks like michael addressed
my question almost verbatim ..but is anyone of the opposite opinion ie
most recent sale price reflects the posters worth
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catching up on two days worth of e-mails and wow the summer doldrums are
over...mopo has come alive...why settle in with TCM..i'm curling up with
MoPo tonight
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lets focus for a moment on the word pristine used in freedom lovers
post...is a standardly folded poster without any defects pristine or does
it need to be unfolded to be deemed pristine..as an aside, i bought a
poster which i consider pristine from sean..a folded werewolf of london 1
sheet
THE BEST OF THE REST IS GONE AND SAVED THE BEST FOR LAST (I GUESS SOMEBODY UP THERE LIKED HIM)-MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU wrote: -To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUFrom: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUDate: 09/27/2008 05:24PMSubject: Re: [MOPO]
can't resist bond flicks-MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU wrote: -To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUFrom: Bruce Hershenson [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUDate: 09/27/2008 06:19PMSubject: [MOPO] What are movies where EVERY time you see one flipping
For the economy minded who would like to have a poster with the bike
image...the 20th anniversary pre-release has both the bike image and
the finger touch and guess what? ..they all measure 40 1/4 x 27...best
to all Alan
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I've been watching the miyazake films lately...I never get tired of
seeing these movies..i usually don't read the credits at the end of the
films...but today i watched my neighbor tatoro and was watching the
film credits and noticed Toochis Morin listed as one of the additional
voices..so unless
has anybody on the listserv received a similar e- mail?
The New York Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation is currently
investigating individuals involved in the production and sale of fake
horror movie posters and lobby cards. A large number of these pieces were
sold through Ebay
: Alan Heimann
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2010 11:49 AM
Subject: [MOPO] email from FBI
has anybody on the listserv received a similar e- mail?The New York Office of the Federal Bureau of Investigation is currently investigating individuals involved
hi bruce and all..dominique besson sent an e-mail with pictures of a new catalouge he has put together..in it is a kong poster which he says was used for advertising in africa and on the poster it says in french the eighth wonder of the world...best AlanMar 15, 2010 12:08:31 PM,
Hi to all mopoers Currently on ebay..original window cards from Dietrich.. Devil is a Woman 1935 and Rear Window 1954
ebay #'s are 280498648772...and... 280498832274..best to all...Alan
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what is scott burns e-mail address ?
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In the BODY of your message
if i were buying it for my own collection definately would lin back and
restore..however i would wait and see if there is one of those type
buyers who might want it in present condition ..you could also offer
the option to lin back and restore for the buyer if they desire it.
Visit the MoPo
This question is directed primarily at dealers...Do you have any pieces in
your collection or should i say inventory that you would not part with at
any price?
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hi zev et al...interesting that you mention the taxi driver title...as we
all know there were two sets printed for this film and the printing on the
bottom of the cards is different for each set...if you or another mopoer
has an example of what would be considered a fake on this title just based
I wouldn't presume to answer for bruce...obviously two issues here
desirability of slabbing and what constitutes restoration...hmmm i see a
potential flood of e-mail as the regulars weigh in...my short thoughts.. i
don't think tape on the back of a card is restoration...tape is usually
removed
This small french poster for creature from the black lagoon has been
listed by reputable dealers as original and also as brucre lists it as
r62...does anyone know for sure? and if you do source?
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the Black Lagoon will have a small tag line with
a Visa number on it. The Visa de Censure numbers started in 1960 so the
original wouldn't have it... I have the number on our French Censor Log
for that poster... the number on the R62 should by Visa No. 641
I hope this helps
ed
Alan Heimann wrote
if true i suppose the logical thing for bruce would be to have his own auction site like heritage...Alan-MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU wrote: -To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUFrom: Bruce Hershenson [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUDate: 02/16/2008
pride of the yankees...not painful to watch until i'm the luckiest man on
the face of the earth ...SOB game over
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hey sean just checked out your homepage...curious what price for R47 dracula 1 sheet?..-MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU wrote: -To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUFrom: Sean Linkenback [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUDate: 03/29/2008 11:53AMSubject:
colin i guess then it's reasonable to say that by the time people
have declared that we are officially in a recession we are already
starting to come out of it.-MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU wrote: -To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUFrom: CK MacLeod [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: MoPo
yes you can ...in fact its somewhat better than ebay in that on
the final bid page you are given a second by second countdown
clockAlan-MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU wrote: -To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUFrom: Roland Lataille [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: MoPo List
hi to all..i've listed 11 items on ebay..see below for list.. my ebay seller name is uhis
i want to thank MoPo members who answerd my questions about some of the
technicals of selling on e-bay..sean and freeman in particular..having
not sold on ebay since the 90's much has changed.. i probably
BLOOD OF THE VAMPIRE LOBBY CARD SET... 2 HOURSMYSTERIANS ONE SHEET...4 HOURSAC MEXICAN HAYRIDE ONE SHEET..4 HRS 30 MINMR ROBINSON CRUSOE fAIRBANKS '32 TEASER 5 HOURS10 MINMY EBAY NAME IS UHISBEST TO ALL... ALANVisit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
NIGHT AT THE OPERA R48 ONE SHEET ENDING AROUND 3:45 EST
GOOD LUCK TO ALL MoPo BIDDERS
MY EBAY NAME UHIS
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wrong again it was Mr. Ed and Phyllis Diller AH HAHAHAHAHA (if you remember her laugh)-MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU wrote: -To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUFrom: Patrick Michael Tupy [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUDate: 04/26/2008 01:23PMSubject:
Before the dog completely goes into a stupor...show of hands
...how many of you have seen Zeitgeist the movie...if you haven't you
should..thought provoking and scary...maybe if i own a gun i can
ward them off when they come to plant a chip in my arm..probably
not...gday mate-MoPo List
hi folks (wait a minute i'm morphing into rich halegua) ...morrie
everett mentions in his flyer for the upcoming vintage auction at
cinevent that the wizard of oz is one of the ten most collected movie
titles...what are the other nine?...so morris or bruce or anybody else
that knows please
i could write pages on this topic but bottom line i don't think
the variability in grading is very detrimental as long as the piece
most importantly is accurately described and the piece is returnable,
as most of the reputable sellers do and allow. newbies are always going
to be frustrated but the
HERES ONE THAT HAUNTS ME TO THIS DAYMY SON CAME HOME FROM
MANHATTAN ONE DAY AFTER SPENDING A DAY IN CENTRAL PARK WITH MY MOTHER.
HE HAD A FAVORITE BOOK WITH HIM THAT HE TOOK WHEREVER HE WENT...THE
FIVE CHINESE BROTHERS...A FEW DAY LATER I WAS THUMBING THROUGH THE BOOK
AND FOUND A YELLOW PIECE
i best remeber him from the second sinbad movie probably because i watched it a bucnh of times, probably because i had a crush on caroline munro-MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU wrote: -To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUFrom: channinglylethomson [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: MoPo List
hi to all ..am heading to cinevent and will bring along selected
items for cash sale if serious interest by any mopo participants who
are headed to columbus...email me and i will e-mail you a list of
what's available...this list is sort of a running inventory of what i
have available for sale. It
i am still looking for a very fine condition reasonably priced
wizard of oz R49 card #6...tear wipe scene..without causing any
arguments what does the fellow mean by resonably priced?
recent heritage auction price///$3100...i don't think so...how about
$2100? perhaps for a title card...how about
yes it is a great channel...saturday nights is Reiisue night...rated "R"...they charge less for programs that night and next sunday they're showing one of my favorites Bad girls of the NSSTake a moment this weekend to remember those who gave their lives for our countryas we continue to enjoy our
judith i saw a few mopoers at cinevent...trust me were aging
i agree on the cate blanchett comment i think she's one of the best actresses
on the planet and she could have made her character seem a bit more evil...but
the accent and haircut were perfect and just a real kick seeing her in that
very nice kirby while i have decided with few exceptionsnot to update my laser disc collection by rebuying titles on dvd i will buy this one..it is one of my all time favorites...i happen to have anoriginal half sheet for the title on linen..before it went onto linen i noticed a stamp on the back
my mother lives across the street from that bank(no kidding)...i wish darth
would have taken her to a galaxy far far away(just kidding)..hope you are
all having a great summer..Alan
On Thu, Jul 22, 2010 at 8:14 PM, Richard Halegua Comic Art
sa...@comic-art.com wrote:
Diertirch window card for The Devil is a Woman 1935 sold at Heritage in Nov.
for $1553 including BP..I will sell mine for $1000...details upon
request...Happy holidays to all Mopo...Alan
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
and also included with the delux release on laser disc
On Thu, Jan 13, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Carteron, Bruce - 1551 bru...@ha.comwrote:
I remember this. They were done a number of years ago for a deluxe video
tape release that included Hepburn’s book about the filming of African
Queen.
Usually these word might be prefaced by I died and went to...but
it's alive, it's moving, it's alive, it's alive, in the name god now I know
what it feels like to be god...oops! there I go digressing again..no it's
dead (BK RIP) but I am alive and had the great pleasure to visit Claude
Litton at
always like to put name to face..have never seen a picture of scott..so if
any member can post would be nice..HBD mopo and many more...Alan
On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Scott Burns sbu...@columbus.rr.com wrote:
MoPo celebrates birthday number 16 today.
The first MoPo message was
Clearly Franco was not there...even in his green room interview before the
show began he looked tired and was basically paying lip service to the
interveiwer his mind was elswhere as it was through the show..he looked like
a deer caught in the headlights and Hathaway couldn't do it on her own..As
Does anyone have any reference photo's or know of an auction catalogue that
has pictures of the complete lobby card set...the same card(s) periodically
show up for auction.. would like to see the others...thanks Alan
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
I watched the video...clearly movie posters are the proverbial orphan child
as compared to film when it would come to foundation monies or donations
form the wealthy to restore...especially since most of these materials today
are in private hands..however i have spent and continue to spend my own
The trouble is that people have not accepted a uniform grading system and
even if they did its still subjective as what one person sees as excellent
the next person might see as good...i think a high quality picture is worth a
thousand words...show the picture describe the flaws and that
folks i'm not talking star trek..i still remain concerned about getting any of
my children interested in movie poster collecting...my oldest is 29..his
response How much can we sell them for pappy cakes? (he's so affectionate)
maybe i should put him in touch with Bruce...my middle son age 22..I
Chiller website is http://chillertheatre.com
From: Alan Heimann [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2006/09/26 Tue AM 07:44:39 CDT
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: Re: [MOPO] AUTOGRAPHS ON POSTERS
hi zeev and michael ...all things you mentioned are obviously true yet, unless
i was buying
hi zeev and michael ...all things you mentioned are obviously true yet, unless
i was buying with the idea of reselling in the short term i would not pass up
the opportunity to purchase a piece i really desired becauce its autographed.
the exceptions would be if the autograph appeared in a place
just to change the focus a bit and mind you i collect realart
i don't like their posters that have all these little tag lines...it walks ..it
talks ..it thrills ..it chills ...etc
might as well say it slices and dices its the vegematic(though i guess that
works for the slasher movies)... Gothic
How nice it is to have a live poster auction back in New York...I will be there
and i urge all tri- state Mopoers to attend and make this a huge success...way
to go MO!!
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2006/10/18 Wed PM 10:54:29 CDT
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: [MOPO] Hollywood
LOOKING AT CATALOGUE..CASABLANCA LOBBY...IS THEIR A TAPE STAIN IN THE UPPER
LEFT BORDER ON TOP OF THE POLE OR IS THIS PART OF THE IMAGE?
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: MoPo List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alan
Heimann
Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 2:25 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Subject: [MOPO] HERITAGE lot# 28656
LOOKING AT CATALOGUE..CASABLANCA LOBBY...IS THEIR A TAPE STAIN IN THE UPPER
LEFT BORDER ON TOP OF THE POLE OR IS THIS PART
hello and happy holidays to all mopo's in mopoland(somehow that doesn't sound
as good as the who's in whoville)but anyway i have been collecting NBNW lobbies
for some time, trying to put together sets where most of the cards are about
the same quality in each set..i won the set (minus crop
Good evening to all in mopo land...If you like I are out on street corners
selling pencils and family airlooms to have some money for the upcoming poster
auctions i invite you to take a break. After a very long hiatus
hamptonscinemaposters http://hamptonscinemaposters.net has updated its web
hey there on this auspicious evening before the bloodbath er i mean bidding
begins...as i announced in an earlier e-mail i put up a new web page at
http://hamptonscinemaposters.net I would like to display the images from
the R1938 king kong lobby card set . these are harder to come by than the
i agree with you 110%...i just got home from work where i participated in the
auction. I was stunned by some of the prices...ihave passed on items in other
auctions i could have had at great prices because the posters didn't appeal to
me and vice versa. this raven half sheet doesn't appeal to
then i suppose bob it was an april fools joke...anyway bruce if you are moving why not give rich the boost he's looking for...we'll all follow you to movie poster bid..Alan-MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU wrote: -To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUFrom: Bob Brooks [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent
you might try [EMAIL PROTECTED] don't know if he sells
posters but he has helped me with images of belgian posters in
the past...best alan
-MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU wrote: -To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUFrom: JEFF POTOKAR [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: MoPo List
i'm on the other side of this issue. restoration obviously is not
unique to posters. great works of art, oil paintings of the masters for
example have restoration done form time to time. As to posters i
agree smudges and minor tears should be left alone but if i owned
an expensive king kong poster
getting back to Michael B and keeping it simple i
think somehow michael assumes that people who would do
restoration and linenback their posters would be just as happy or
happier having a mint repro which is rediculous. on the other hand i am
very happy with my king kong repro
To Bruce and Sean: I love swordplay...parry and thrust...it's your turn
Sean
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lets switch from fencing to tennis...?advantage linkenback?-MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU wrote: -To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUFrom: Sean Linkenback [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUDate: 04/21/2007 01:31PMSubject: Re: [MOPO] When ARE lobby cards
sorry i don't know your name...i'm a long time mopo member and have seen
your posts over the years..there is still alot of confusion about mexican
lobbies
ie...original vs reissue cards ..you obviously are sitting on a vast amount
of these cards and i assume very knowledgeable..I don't know if you
only from the cards I own.
Are you interested in Mexican Lobbies for your
collection? I would be interested in trading selling
some cards.
Sincerely yours,
Carlos
--- Alan Heimann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
sorry i don't know your name...i'm a long time mopo
member and have seen
your posts over
i e-mailed steve haynes from cinevent to see if trasportation available
from hotel to wexner center for thurs eve screening for early arrivers..as
i will be...
his reply below
Unfortunately not - the Wexner screening is not a part of Cinevent
(although we have done screenings there as part of
hi channing..probably 1938 or 1940reissue as same image on US re -release 1 sheet-MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU wrote: -To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUFrom: channinglylethomson [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent by: MoPo List mopo-l@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDUDate: 05/15/2007 08:31PMSubject: [MOPO]
Rod morgan posted some mexican lobbies from russian films i guess related
to TCMs showing the film (cranes are flying) last night along with a
documentary on the cannes festival...i don't know much about russian films
or filmmakers but this was excellent, the story and especially the
technical
looking for to catch a thief kelly -grant portrait card in very fine or
better condition..if you have for sale and are coming to cinevent would
consumate deal there..always prefer to see the card in person rather than
internet jpg..otherwise please send description, jpeg and price...thanks
Alan
hi brek and to all mopoers especially those headed to cinevent and
especially those interested in western postersi have a buck jones
"sandflow" half sheet for sale in very good plus condition on linen
with minimal restoration..i will bring it to cinevent if someone
expresses serious
my favorite..pride of the yankees..studio realizing that while its a love
story it was a great baseball movie and adding babe ruth to the reiisue was
just perfect..hope to see many mopoers at cinevent ...Alan
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
FROM JEFF POTOKAR
There has to be someone on the list who wants this for his or her
collection...
http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-BRIDE-OF-FRANKENSTEIN-1935-Karloff-27x41-
UNIVERSAL_W0QQitemZ120125093892QQihZ002QQcategoryZ2319QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewIt
em
I bought 7 of the cards at cinevent in mint condition...missing card
#6...if anybody has in near mint/mint condition and wants to sell...thanks
Alan
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C'mon it cost that much just to put it on linen
Second most common: How do you make a living in this busuness?
Answer: Don't give up your day job
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A related scary thoughthave been to a few shows recently...dealers say
they are either selling less of or getting less money for their vintage
material.
with the exception of universal horror. I'm 50 and I am wondering if i
decided to sell my collection 10 to 15 years down the line who would
I pretty much fall in with Saul and Yafet...passion not pennies is the
motivating force...i alluded in an earlier post that I don't think years
down the line my
collection will be worth what i paid for itas far as having a
preference on what i collect, though i have many posters I am
looking for two cards ...kiss in train and knife in back scenes...desire
fine condition...would accept few border pinholes
but no wrinkling or smudges...thanks Alan
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
Hey it rhymessome thoughts.. not going to question the wisdom of the
phil wages biding...but as has been stated bruce made it known on more than
one occasion that he wasand so what...so what if your bidding against
jo blo, phil or a shillyou should bid no more than your willing to pay
Question...don't some auction houses allow owners of the posters to bid on
the posters?...and if so how does this differ from a shill?
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How to
not much mention of upcoming cinevent ...I will be there and as Rich
Halegua had mentioned in an earlier post it would be nice for
mopoers/style bers to meet..i will add mopo to my name tag and maybe we
could meet for a drink or dinner after saturdays poster auction...best Alan
Visit
. Is it worth going to? Is it
better than just bidding on line?
Thanks,
John
Alan Heimann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
not much mention of upcoming cinevent ...I will be there and as Rich
Halegua had mentioned in an earlier post it would be nice for
mopoers/style bers to meet..i will add mopo to my
Saw the movie last nightmy thoughts...before talking about this movie
in particular...It is difficult to be a baby boomer and watch all the
recent remakes coming out of hollywood that emphasize directors and
special effects and not the actors in the film. Ms. Swanson was right on
the mark.
I'm happy to announce the opening of my
website..hamptonscinemaposters.net...nothing for sale ...The focus of the
site will be discussion of movies, actors, posters and memoribilia and
movie related happenings on Long Island...there is a forum section which is
available for discussion of the
I'm happy to announce the opening of my
website.hamptonscinemaposters.net nothing for sale ...The focus of
the site will be discussion of movies, actors, posters and memoribilia and
movie related happenings on Long Island...there is a forum section which is
available for discussion of the
Hi to all in MoPo land ..the second volume of
http://hamptonscinemaposters.net is now available for your viewing
pleasure.
This month we look at the other major arm of movie related
memoribilia...figurine collecting coupled with a look at Peter Jackson.
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Don Adams has passed at age 82..sorry about that chief
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I really wonder how much of a bargain these posters are...certainly from
the point of view of obtaining a poster you want, often linenbacked, no
buyers premium and no shipping charges?..makes bruce's auctions
very attractive ..for posters like cat people..perhaps this copy had
more
restoration
It would seem either that Ann would not be part of Denhams exploitation of
Kong(my preferred explanation) or perhaps knew that her presence there
would send Kong into a rage...The other question of why she was not in
jack's play is more difficult to analyze with what we are given..I will
have a
well freeman, I thought my wife was pretty good at slapping me around but I
guess you ain't nobody unless youve been slapped by joan crawford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: MoPo
List To
[EMAIL
well freeman, I thought my wife was pretty good at slapping me around but I
guess you ain't nobody unless youve been slapped by joan crawford
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How
that depends a little on philosophy but more on the set...ie if you have a
set with a really desireable title like a 40's universal horror title..you
probably would want to sell the cards separately because selling the set
intact would probably be to pricy for alot of people whereas individual or
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