On Sun, Jun 12, 2011 at 2:30 PM, craig...@comcast.net wrote:
An eccentric magician invites you to play a game.The game consists of 2 boxes
2 buttons. He puts the same amount of money--either
$0 or $1000--in each of the 2 boxes. If you push the right-hand button you
get themoney in the
Hi DMB,
Steve said:
It's not the we don't have free will. It's that free will probably can't even
mean anything. What does it mean to say that not only are you capable of
acting out your will but that on top of that your will is free? Free of what?
dmb says:
I don't get it. How is free
Hi Ham,
Ham:
Free will is the power to choose. It is unintelligible only for
determinists who believe that human actions, like all evolutionary events,
are the consequence of prior causes.
This would be true if human beings were controlled by their beingness,
enslaved by their genetic
Hi Tim,
[Steve] (The dictum, when you reach a contradiction, make a
distinction, demonstrates exactly how impressed we should all be that
a given system is logically coherent and explains why such systems
abound rather than one winning over all others.)
[Tim]
well, this concept is new to
Dmb,
It sounds like you have received, or soon will receive, your Master's degree.
That is a wonderful accomplishment. I didn't get my undergraduate degree until
1990 when I was 44-years-old, and my graduate degree until 1992 when I was
46-years-old. I can appreciate the challenge of
[Craig, previously]
An eccentric magician invites you to play a game. The game consists of 2
boxes 2 buttons.
He puts the same amount of money--either $0 or $1000--in each of the 2
boxes. If you push the right-hand button you get the
money in the right hand box. If you push the left-hand
dmb said:
...Gravity is a physical concept, a word with specific meanings. It is NOT
an ineffable mystical reality.
John wonders what a physical concept looks like:
Is it a concept composed of physical attributes? I thought it was just an
idea - something in a mind. How can a concept be
Marsha:
You have pulled my comments out of their context, exaggerated and
misrepresented
things I have said through nonsense paraphrasing, and set this up as a
contradiction.
You have no idea what a rational argument is other than it sounds reasonable
to you.
And I am still waiting for
Marsha said to Horse:
I think a great place to look for ever-changing as I present it is in the MoQ
Textbook 5.8.4 THE MOQ, DUKKHA AND AVIDAYA (IGNORANCE) ... I have meant what is
very similar to what is quoted here.
dmb says:
No, Marsha. Your evidence does not support your assertion that
Marsha said to dmb:
You have pulled my comments out of their context, exaggerated and
misrepresented things I have said through nonsense paraphrasing, and set this
up as a contradiction. You have no idea what a rational argument is other than
it sounds reasonable to you. ...You have no idea
Neat little trick Dan taught me.
Delete.
___
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John wonders what a physical concept looks like:
Is it a concept composed of physical attributes? I thought it was just an
idea - something in a mind. How can a concept be physical?
dmb (with me snipping out the smarm)
No? You still don't see what a physical concept is?
Okay, I'll
Hi Steve --
On Monday, 6/13/11, 10:02 AM Steven Peterson peterson.st...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi Ham,
Ham:
Free will is the power to choose. It is unintelligible only for
determinists who believe that human actions, like all
evolutionary events, are the consequence of prior causes.
This would be
Hi David and all,
The horse I am wrestling with is evolution! You seem to imply that there is
an evolutionary difference between concepts and reality. From the way I
look at things that is misguided. Concepts identify reality so they must be
a part of reality? Pirsig accepted evolution. It
I don't think so, Marsha. If you enjoy the difficulties of mountain
climbing, for instance, then you are joyful while enmeshed in even the most
extreme difficulties. And if everything is made easy for you, like you're
locked up in solitary confinement with nothing to do all day long and your
13 jun 2011 kl. 21.06 marsha wrote:
Neat little trick Dan taught me.
Delete.
Better watch your portion of celebrity left Marsha:
Celebrity is to social patterns as sex is to biological patterns. Now he was
getting it. This celebrity is Dynamic Quality within a static social level
Steve said:
Free will is not generally understood to be the ability to act on one's will.
Any animal can do that. Free will goes a step further than that to propose an
extra-added ingredient that humans posses and animals do not. It says that the
will is not determined by anything other than
John said:
Well then dave, pray tell what is NOT either an idea from Physics or an idea
used by physicists? We all live in a physical reality, from which all our
ideas are derived. Denoting one particular brand of concepts physical makes
absolutely no sense to me at all. What isn't? ...
dmb said:
...I'm talking about concepts and definitions, not reality. ..., I do NOT mean
to say that proper definitions are reality....This is not a claim about
ultimate realties. It's about the english language and the nature of reasonable
philosophical discussions. Who thinks the riddle
In our highly complex organic state we advanced organisms respond to our
environment with an invention of many marvelous analogues. We invent earth and
heavens, trees, stones and oceans, gods, music, arts, language, philosophy,
engineering, civilization and science. We call these analogues
Steve said:
Playing the causation game doesn't depend on any particular
metaphysics. But once you start looking for explanations in terms of
causes, the serpent of causation is found to run over everything.
Matt:
That's a good way of putting it. One of the most powerful, succinct
statements
- Original Message
From: MarshaV val...@att.net
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 2:15:42 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] cloud of probability
Marsha:
And I am still waiting for the evidence for the quote you attributed to me as
part of the
contradiction.
Ron:
Steve said:
Playing the causation game doesn't depend on any particular
metaphysics. But once you start looking for explanations in terms of
causes, the serpent of causation is found to run over everything.
Matt:
That's a good way of putting it. One of the most powerful, succinct
statements
It is, again, the capacity for choice that makes us accountable for
our own actions and states. Epictetus is particularly fond of
exploring the implications of this essentially Stoic conception.
In studying his usage it is helpful to remember that his favored
term prohairesis refers more often
On 6/13/11 3:40 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
snip
The theory of evolution is among the analogies we call reality, among the
concepts we've invented along with earth and heaven. In the MOQ, reality is
prior to all analogies and gives rise to all concepts. Reality is
Marsha:
And you seem to have the point of view that something
generalized is true.
On Jun 13, 2011, at 9:33 PM, X Acto wrote:
- Original Message
From: MarshaV val...@att.net
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 2:15:42 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] cloud
provide evidence of that
- Original Message
From: MarshaV val...@att.net
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 11:26:11 PM
Subject: Re: [MD] cloud of probability
Marsha:
And you seem to have the point of view that something
generalized is true.
On Jun 13,
Marsha:
And if cheap tricks win out over sincerity, more power to you both.
On Jun 13, 2011, at 4:44 PM, Jan-Anders Andersson wrote:
13 jun 2011 kl. 21.06 marsha wrote:
Neat little trick Dan taught me.
Delete.
Better watch your portion of celebrity left Marsha:
Sure, as soon as you provide the evidence for your statement.
I've never insinuated there is no such thing as evidence.
On Jun 13, 2011, at 11:38 PM, X Acto wrote:
provide evidence of that
- Original Message
From: MarshaV val...@att.net
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
Hello everyone
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:17 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote:
I don't think so, Marsha. If you enjoy the difficulties of mountain
climbing, for instance, then you are joyful while enmeshed in even the most
extreme difficulties. And if everything is made easy for you,
John,
We suffer, or we accept the difficulties, or we overcome them, or we wait until
they pass. I'm not so sure one can make such an easy, generalized statement
when it comes to suffering. There's all kinds of suffering.
Marsha
On Jun 13, 2011, at 4:17 PM, John Carl wrote:
I don't
Hello everyone
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:44 PM, Jan-Anders Andersson
janander...@telia.com wrote:
13 jun 2011 kl. 21.06 marsha wrote:
Neat little trick Dan taught me.
Delete.
J-A:
Better watch your portion of celebrity left Marsha:
Dan:
I think Marsha is pointing to my answer to
Hello everyone
On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 10:24 PM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Hi Dan,
Not so sure what comes first. Suffering may come first, or may last forever,
How do these patterns repeat and flow? They are patterns, right?
Hi Marsha
I would say anything we discuss is a pattern.
Good stuff in The Edge this month:
http://edge.org/conversation/social_psychological_narrative
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