Marsha -
There may also come a time when citizens may need to change the laws.
Especially when politicians have become criminals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
MRB
http://www.fuguewriter.com
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On Aug 8, 2011, at 6:01 PM, david buchanan wrote:
Marsha axed:
Is there a difference between the law holding someone responsible
protecting citizens from further harm and a individual being morally
responsible? Just a question...
dmb says:
Yes, there is a big difference. I think
On Aug 9, 2011, at 2:21 AM, Michael R. Brown wrote:
Marsha -
There may also come a time when citizens may need to change the laws.
Especially when politicians have become criminals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jury_nullification
MRB
Michael,
If you've watched the movie
On 8/8/11 5:01 PM, David Buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
dmb says:
Yes, there is a big difference. I think that was Sam's point. We build tornado
shelters because tornados do damage, not because we hold them morally
responsible for their actions. Same with brain-diseased psychopaths.
That's true of the value of the U.S. dollar too; the dollar is an
interdependent,
ever-changing and impermanent process.
On Aug 9, 2011, at 7:03 AM, MarshaV wrote:
Hello Dave,
Let's not forget that bullets as patterns are ever-changing, inter-dependent
and
impermanent
On 8/9/11 6:03 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Marsha
Let's not forget that bullets as patterns are ever-changing, inter-dependent
and impermanent processes. imho
With no-self.
Do you ever sleep?
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On Aug 9, 2011, at 7:11 AM, David Thomas wrote:
On 8/9/11 6:03 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Marsha
Let's not forget that bullets as patterns are ever-changing, inter-dependent
and impermanent processes. imho
With no-self.
There we go! :-)
Do you ever sleep?
Okay, I'll
Hi Ian,
Ian:
I am at a loss to understand how you are separating free-will from
responsibility (at any level, common sense, science, MoQ or
metaphysical in general).
Steve:
This is link is not a logical necessity because even if we accept for
the sake of argument that determinism is true, we
Hi dmb,
Moral agency
A Moral agent is a being who is capable of acting with reference to right
and wrong. Moral agency is a person's responsibility for making moral
judgments and taking actions that comport with morality.
Steve:
I don't see any necessary link of free will and the idea of
dmb:
At one point, if memory serves, Steve even went so far as to say that Pirsig
doesn't talk about moral responsibility and otherwise suggested it plays no
important role in the MOQ.
Steve:
It does play a role in the MOQ. The MOQ says that moral condemnation
and praising oneself for not
Hi dmb,
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 1:19 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
Steve said to Ham:
I wonder if Dennett takes determinism as the belief that natural laws are
true as a metaphysical assertion or a pragmatic one. If the latter I agree
with Dennett and in some weak sense a
If you want to believe those ignorant hacks over at Stanford
Compatibilism offers a solution to the free will problem. This philosophical
problem concerns a disputed incompatibility between free will and determinism.
Compatibilism is the thesis that free will is compatible with
If you want to believe the ignorant hacks who speak the english language,..
involuntary |inˈvälənˌterē|adjective1 done without conscious control : she gave
an involuntary shudder.• (esp. of muscles or nerves) concerned in bodily
processes that are not under the control of the will.• caused
Hi dmb,
dmb:
If you want to believe those ignorant hacks over at Stanford
Compatibilism offers a solution to the free will problem. This philosophical
problem concerns a disputed incompatibility between free will and
determinism. Compatibilism is the thesis that free will is
Hi dmb,
On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 11:15 AM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
If you want to believe the ignorant hacks who speak the english language,..
involuntary |inˈvälənˌterē|adjective1 done without conscious control : she
gave an involuntary shudder.• (esp. of muscles or
Marsha said:
Free-will is a static pattern of value, a conventional belief, not something
ultimately real. So I neither accept 'free-will' nor reject 'free-will'; it is
irrelevant from a MoQ point-of-view.
The will is an idea, a concept derived from experience. If this concept is NOT
Dmb,
Your claim to 'free will' is by right of static, convention only.
I am interested in the MoQ, NOT Contemporary Pragmatism, as such I am not
interested in what dmb says that Charlene says that James says. I can
appreciate that you have a great interest in W. James, but as far as I am
Dmb,
Your claim to 'free will' is by right of static, convention only.
I am interested in the MoQ, NOT Contemporary Pragmatism, as such I am not
interested in what dmb says that Charlene says that James says. I can
appreciate that you have a great interest in W. James, but as far as I am
Marsha said to dmb,
Your claim to 'free will' is by right of static, convention only. I am
interested in the MoQ, NOT Contemporary Pragmatism, as such I am not interested
in what dmb says that Charlene says that James says.
dmb says:
Nope. You're quite mistaken on both accounts. Free
Marsha said:
Let's not forget that bullets as patterns are ever-changing, inter-dependent
and impermanent processes. imho
Free-will is a static pattern of value, a conventional belief, not something
ultimately real. So I neither accept 'free-will' nor reject 'free-will'; it is
irrelevant
On Aug 9, 2011, at 1:56 PM, david buchanan wrote:
Marsha said to dmb,
Your claim to 'free will' is by right of static, convention only. I am
interested in the MoQ, NOT Contemporary Pragmatism, as such I am not
interested in what dmb says that Charlene says that James says.
dmb
Bugger off!
On Aug 9, 2011, at 2:05 PM, Andre Broersen wrote:
Marsha said:
Let's not forget that bullets as patterns are ever-changing, inter-dependent
and impermanent processes. imho
Free-will is a static pattern of value, a conventional belief, not something
ultimately
dmb quoted the dictionary:
involuntary |inˈvälənˌterē|adjective1 done without conscious control : she
gave an involuntary shudder.• (esp. of muscles or nerves) concerned in
bodily processes that are not under the control of the will.• caused
unintentionally, esp. through negligence
Hi dmb,
Steve replied:
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you contending that in the hot stove
example Pirsig is describing a willed act?
dmb says:
I'm saying that responding to DQ can't rightly be described as unconscious or
involuntary. I'm saying there is a good reason why we
Everything is conventionally real.
Nothing is ultimately real.
Everything is both conventionally real and ultimately unreal.
Nothing is either conventionally unreal or ultimately real.
On Aug 9, 2011, at 2:05 PM, Andre Broersen wrote:
Marsha said:
Let's not forget that bullets as
Hello everyone
On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 12:16 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
Steve replied:
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you contending that in the hot stove
example Pirsig is describing a willed act?
dmb says:
I'm saying that responding to DQ can't rightly be
Marsha to Andre:
Bugger off!
Andre:
I am (almost) beginning(!) to feel very sorry for you.
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Andre,
Don't feel sorry for me. I'm not the one whining that I won't play by
YOUR rules. You're like a tattlle-tale:
Mommy! Marsha won't play by MY rules. She said this
and that. Waa. Make her stop...
Whatever...
Marsha
On Aug 9, 2011, at 2:47
dmb quoted the Stanford encyclopedia:
Compatibilism offers a solution to the free will problem. This philosophical
problem concerns a disputed incompatibility between free will and determinism.
Compatibilism is the thesis that free will is compatible with determinism.
Because free will is
Dan said to dmb:
I would say that Dynamic Quality only becomes concrete empirical reality
afterwards, and then it is no longer Dynamic Quality. If you drop the two
identifiers and say Dynamic Quality is synonymous with reality, then I would
tend to agree with you here. I see you trying to box
Hi Mike,
You mean Bezerkly? My brother went there in the '70s, you have never
seen more displaced people looking for a cause. No more sex, love,
and rock'n roll. Guns anyone?
Hasn't changed from what I gather from my nephew who lives in The
City. Lots of rich, lots of poor, and now lot's of
Steve, inserted
On Tue, Aug 9, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Steven Peterson
peterson.st...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Ian,
Ian:
I am at a loss to understand how you are separating free-will from
responsibility (at any level, common sense, science, MoQ or
metaphysical in general).
Steve:
This is link is not
This is the third part of my trilogy concerning the applications of
Taoism to MoQ. In part 1 I described how language can be used to
balance our understanding of Quality. In part 2 I wrote about the
balance between the Sacred and the Profane, and provided alternative
analogies to Taoism.
In
Marsha to Andre:
Don't feel sorry for me. I'm not the one whining that I won't play by
YOUR rules. You're like a tattlle-tale:
Mommy! Marsha won't play by MY rules. She said this
and that. Waa. Make her stop...
Whatever...
Andre:
Now I really do feel sorry for
Hi
It is beginning to show up that Marsha to some degree is predictable and
never-changing...
Shame on you Marsha!
Jan-Anders
9 aug 2011 kl. 21.05 skrev moq_discuss-requ...@lists.moqtalk.org:
Andre,
Don't feel sorry for me. I'm not the one whining that I won't play by
YOUR rules.
Steve I checked out the 2011 Eagleman book, on-line Google books and
Amazon text, and a number of reviews.
Seems to include many references I've read or recognize ...
Is your case simply that even consciousness and conscious will are
largely the products of subsconscious patterns.
(That's a
Hi Ian,
Ian:
I am at a loss to understand how you are separating free-will from
responsibility (at any level, common sense, science, MoQ or
metaphysical in general).
Steve:
This is link is not a logical necessity because even if we accept for
the sake of argument that determinism is
Hi Steve,
I think Spinoza would have a lot to say about undefined/defined reality.
Joe
On 8/3/11 8:33 PM, Michael R. Brown m...@fuguewriter.com wrote:
I think Augustine and Meister Eckhart would like this line much. I love
Spinoza's simple, lovely reasoning that we are in direct contact
Hi Arlo,
I have a very difficult time in my perceptions trying to arrive at the
possible perceptible DQ of a social level that I can describe analogously.
I appeal to the emotions, but the hierarchy is more universal than social.
I love myself.
Joe
On 8/3/11 9:16 PM, ARLO J BENSINGER JR
Steve said to dmb:
I'm not saying that _all_ response to DQ is necessarily involuntary. I'm just
wondering if it _can_ be involuntary. If hopping off the hot stove is an
example of following DQ, and if we take free will to be captured in Pirsig's
claim that we are free to the extent that we
Andre said:
... Marsha also argues that because something is only conventionally real, and
not ultimately real she doesn't accept it as being relevant FROM A MOQ
POINT-OF-VIEW! Now this is serious. Apart from the 'free-will' discussion that
has been going on for a while Marsha claims it is
Mark
On Aug 7, 2011, at 9:30 AM, Steven Peterson peterson.st...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sun, Aug 7, 2011 at 12:17 PM, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com wrote:
I would say that Free-Will is only the ability to act irrationally.
We have the choice to Not do something.
Ask someone with Tourette's
I'll give it a try. I am more into Buddhist Analysis.
Chapter 1: How?
Chapter 2: Why?
Chapter 3: When?
Chafer 4: Where?
Conclusions: What?
Epilogue: Wazzap?
Mark
On Aug 8, 2011, at 1:44 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Greetings,
Btw, this is a very expensive book, but can
Hi Joe,
The DQ of the Social Level is interconnectivity, or it's many verbs.
Mark
On Aug 9, 2011, at 2:12 PM, Joseph Maurer jh...@comcast.net wrote:
Hi Arlo,
I have a very difficult time in my perceptions trying to arrive at the
possible perceptible DQ of a social level that I can
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