Hi dmb,
> Steve replied: > I'm not sure what your point is. Are you contending that in the hot stove > example Pirsig is describing a willed act? > > > dmb says: > > I'm saying that responding to DQ can't rightly be described as unconscious or > involuntary. I'm saying there is a good reason why we can't rightly talk > about motorcycle repair as an involuntary action nor do we write essays > unconsciously. And I'm suggesting there are better better terms to describe > what it means to respond to DQ. > Pirsig main point in using the hot stove example, I think, is to show that DQ > is not a metaphysical abstraction but a concrete empirical reality. He's > saying the mystics will get off the stove first because they tend to be in > closer contact with that pre-conceptual flux of life. For James and Pirsig, > that's reality and the concepts that follow are only good to the extent that > they successfully operate in that reality, in the flux of life. Steve: I'm not saying that _all_ response to DQ is necessarily involuntary. I'm just wondering if it _can_ be involuntary. If hopping off the hot stove is an example of following DQ, and if we take "free will" to be captured in Pirsig's claim that we are free to the extent that we follow DQ, then it seems that "free will" is at least sometimes a misnomer in talking about human freedom since it isn't always willed. I'm still not sure where you stand on the question at hand. Is hopping off a hot stove as Pirsig described it in Lila a willed action or not? will 1 a. The mental faculty by which one deliberately chooses or decides upon a course of action: championed freedom of will against a doctrine of predetermination. b. The act of exercising the will. 2. a. Diligent purposefulness; determination: an athlete with the will to win. b. Self-control; self-discipline: lacked the will to overcome the addiction. 3. A desire, purpose, or determination, especially of one in authority: It is the sovereign's will that the prisoner be spared. 4. Deliberate intention or wish: Let it be known that I took this course of action against my will. 5. Free discretion; inclination or pleasure: wandered about, guided only by will. 6. Bearing or attitude toward others; disposition: full of good will. 7. a. A legal declaration of how a person wishes his or her possessions to be disposed of after death. b. A legally executed document containing this declaration. Moq_Discuss mailing list Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc. http://lists.moqtalk.org/listinfo.cgi/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org Archives: http://lists.moqtalk.org/pipermail/moq_discuss-moqtalk.org/ http://moq.org/md/archives.html
