Greetings!
Well, Mark, that's an interesting assumptions. Can you suggest an experiment
to prove it that doesn't rely on history?
Marsha
On Oct 4, 2011, at 11:33 PM, 118 wrote:
In my opinion, Taleb makes way too many assumptions that lead to false
conclusions. His
Hi Mark,
Isn't 'freewill' a conceptually constructed static pattern? And what do you
mean by act as if. Is act as if anything other than pattern that we are
rarely aware of?
Btw, Mark, by what measurement are you judging whether Susan Blackmore is or
isn't a friend of the MoQ?
Dmb,
I wonder if you would articulate James's definition of the 'self.' I have read
that it is considered a bundle theory, but I thought I'd ask.
Marsha
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Dan to Matt:
I'd have to go back and see exactly what point I was making to Steve and Ron.
At the time it seemed pertinent that Dynamic Quality is better understood as
not this, not that. Ron seemed to be making a
point that Dynamic Quality is always Good while Steve countered with a quote
Andre:
I believe Bodvar has a website. Why don't you take all your gear to that one?
He'll give you the answers you want to hear. You are certainly not interested
in Pirsig's or Anthony's for that matter.
No, just stick with Bodvar..and Chalmers...and youtube.
Chalmer, and maybe
dmb:
I like to think that Pirsig's hot stove example was meant to be humorous.
He's saying that DQ is not some crypto-religious metaphysical abstraction.
Instead, in this analogy, DQ is just your own sweet ass. Things can't get
much more down to earth than that. In this case, there is
Hey Dan,
Dan quoted Pirsig:
The low value that can be derived from sitting on a hot stove is
obviously an experience even though it is not an object and even
though it is not subjective. The low value comes first, then the
subjective thoughts that include such things as stove and heat and
On Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 12:41 PM, craig...@comcast.net wrote:
[Steve]
I see causality as an
intellectual pattern of value--one of the tools we have evolved for
coping with reality.
The problem with this view is that it entails there was no causation
before there were ipovs we know that is
[Steve]
The MOQ says that Quality comes first which produces ideas which
produce what we know as causality. It is common sense to presume that
causality comes first and produces ideas. However, as if to further
the confusion, the MOQ says that the idea that causality comes first
is a high
All,
Accepting the risk of setting off some nihilism frothing, I've been
re-reading Nietzsche's The Birth of Tragedy recently, and thought I'd
share some passages that struck me as resonating with the SQ/DQ division
of the MOQ.
I'm not making any general claims about Nietzsche or that this
Matt's indeterminacy of DQ/degeneracy thesis says:
If I want to always be following DQ as much as possible, how do I know whether
I'm dimly apprehending Dynamic Quality or apprehending dimly with static
patterns? ...what does it mean to say, then, that DQ is the Good? Well, I
guess just that
Hi Craig, All,
[Steve]
The MOQ says that Quality comes first which produces ideas which
produce what we know as causality. It is common sense to presume that
causality comes first and produces ideas. However, as if to further
the confusion, the MOQ says that the idea that causality comes
Interesting topic, Arlo. Just for starters, here's Wiki's neat summary of the
main idea:
...there was an age where tragedy died. Nietzsche ties this to the influence
of writers like Euripides and the coming of rationality, represented by
Socrates. Euripides reduced the use of the chorus and
Arlo,
I really loved reading Nietzsche, and loved reading this synopsis; it gave me
goosebumps. Your insight into the code of art was very interesting. Great
post!
Marsha
On Oct 5, 2011, at 3:03 PM, Arlo Bensinger wrote:
All,
Accepting the risk of setting off some nihilism
Hi Dave,
DMB said:
I see a pattern in your reply, Matt. My editing job shows you what I
see. Sure, it's a bit rude to complain in this way but I think it has the
advantage of being exceptionally clear. If we're trying to be precise,
I think disingenuous is probably the best word for your
Nietzsche foresaw all kinds of things - including, in the early 1880s, a
change in physics coming. He wrote that materialism would be supplanted and
a new energy-physics would arise that did away with the reduction to terms
of maximal stupidity he saw in Newtonian inertial materialism. He got a
Hi Dave,
Matt said:
If I want to always be following DQ as much as possible, how do I
know whether I'm dimly apprehending Dynamic Quality or
apprehending dimly with static patterns?
DMB said:
You're asking about following DQ and how that differs from the
following the static or conceptual,
Hey Arlo,
I envy your ability to have time to read Nietzsche. I wish I did.
I think centering on Nietzsche as carving out a conceptual space that
is similar to the conceptual space that Pirsig would later try to carve
out is an important direction in comparative, intellectual-historical
- Original Message -
From: craig...@comcast.net
To: craig...@comcast.net
Cc: moq discuss moq_discuss@lists.moqtalk.org
Sent: Wed, 05 Oct 2011 18:35:50 - (UTC)
Subject: Re: [MD] Causation
[Steve]
The MOQ says that Quality comes first which produces ideas which
produce what we know
[Steve]
that same cosmology that puts
inorganic patterns historically before intellectual ones itself is an
idea which shows that ideas come before inorganic, biological, and
social patterns in the MOQ's _epistemology_ which is also its
ontology.
If it were correct that inorganic patterns
Matt said to dmb:
Okay, so is stuckness the only criterion for being controlled by static
patterns? Are you saying that if you never feel stuck you are, ipso facto,
following DQ?
dmb says:
No, I wasn't offering anything like a set of standards or criteria. I was just
trying to show how two
Ecco Homo
Yes, I know from where I came,
Ever hungry like a flame;
I consume myself and glow.
Light is all that I conceive,
Ashes everywhere I leave.
Flame I am assuredly.
(Nietzsche, The Gay
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