Re: [Mpls] Bad Bet
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wizard Marks bets: My bet is that four or five days before the November election, the FBI will put an indictment on the table. Any takers? I'd take that bet, but since the FBI never brings indictments, I'll give Wizard a break. This one is pretty much up to the US Attorney to do. Off line, one person weighed in with two weeks. Any other suggestions? WizardMarks, Central Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Stone Arch Bridge for Rent
I only caught part of the MPRB meeting tonight but that section included, incredibly, a committee considering shutting down the Stone Arch Bridge and W River Road (the plank road), just south of the old Whitney Hotel, to the public for private rentals at a rate of $1000-$1500. Not sure how much time the fee covers. Also, from what I saw, rental of these spaces would not be available to local residents, especially not for weddings, nor local businesses, unions or clubs except for the Mill City Museum (MHS). Rental of these sites would be open to conventions - and staff was working with GMVCA. During rentals, a pedestrian path would remain open for bikers, runners, walkers, tourists, guided tours, trolleys?, etc. Staff has already chosen a private caterer to initially receive an exclusive three year trial contract to cater all events on the Stone Arch Bridge and the Plank/W River Road. When asked if this was a no-bid contract, staff sort of dodged the answer but said that staff prefers that only a single caterer receive the contract. Comm. Young sought to clarify and amend the staff proposal. She was shut down with an accusation of micromanagement. Comm. Erwin opposed the proposal. This proposal passed out of committee with Young and Erwin opposed and Berry Graves, Dziedzic, and Hauser in favor. I believe the proposal will go before full MPRB board at the next meeting. Some commissioner suggested contacting immediate neighbors about this proposal. That suggestion went nowhere. I don't recall any commissioners insisting that the proposal be submitted to local neighborhood groups, or advertised, or to be reviewed by a CAC. (I suggest that changing these sites from transportation and/or historic preservation/interpretation to shutting out the general public so as to assist the GMVCA with recruiting conventions is a major shift in use - one that requires reviews of earlier contracts with grantors who provided development funds for the Stone Arch and West River Road, so a citizen study/review committee seems in order.) Since I only saw a portion of the MPRB meeting without my full attention, I welcome corrections and clarification. Shawne FitzGerald Powderhorn REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Stone Arch Bridge for Rent
I'm glad to hear someone else's comments on the Oct. 5 Park Board Meeting. It all seemed so incredible that I was beginning to doubt my senses. Yes, they were talking about renting out the STONE ARCH BRIDGE for maybe $1000 - $1500! Now, being in the business of renting out spaces for events (Van Dusen Center, 1900 La Salle in Mpls.), I know at least something about the subject. Any of our three buildings rent for $1200 on a Friday or Saturday. I believe they said an event would require the time of two Park Police. And then there's clean-up. Plus the area would likely be shut down for 24 hour periods. In other words, they'd be hardpressed to break even at those prices. Of course it's the public's resources that they'd be renting out, and likely only for big special events like those of the GMVCC that promote Minneapolis. I didn't realize that the Minneapolis Park System is a service to underwrite the efforts of the Convention Center. Silly deluded me. CM Berry Graves questioned the whole thing, also pointing out that they were moving ahead without citizen input. In this case, it affects all the city's citizens, plus very specifically the residents along W. River Parkway. Don't tell me that ..., she asked repeatedly, as they proceeded with the usual modus operandi: staff comes forward with a proposal that presents shallow information that only supports a pre-selected course of action. It's unclear if the staff is running the show by presenting such selective info. or whether there are those on the board who are working with them and advisors from private enterprise. Staff said one caterer was chosen who offered the largest percentage of proceeds. However, that info. is really meaningless without the entire context, as 15% of a low cost caterer's proceeds may net significantly lower amounts than 10% from a high-end caterer. Just what criteria and what business analysis is being offered here? In this day of budget shortfalls, privatization must be considered out of necessity. But this rush to privatize our public park resources is being handled without any real cost/return analysis, let alone an opportunity for the impacted public to weigh in. I'm so glad that there are these public broadcasts. It means I don't have to buy movie tickets to experience incredible chills and absolutely frightening scenarios. Christine Viken Loring Heights-Stevens Square On Thu, 06 Oct 2005 02:35:55 -0500, Shawne FitzGerald wrote I only caught part of the MPRB meeting tonight but that section included, incredibly, a committee considering shutting down the Stone Arch Bridge and W River Road (the plank road), just south of the old Whitney Hotel, to the public for private rentals at a rate of $1000-$1500. Not sure how much time the fee covers. Also, from what I saw, rental of these spaces would not be available to local residents, especially not for weddings, nor local businesses, unions or clubs except for the Mill City Museum (MHS). Rental of these sites would be open to conventions - and staff was working with GMVCA. During rentals, a pedestrian path would remain open for bikers, runners, walkers, tourists, guided tours, trolleys?, etc. Staff has already chosen a private caterer to initially receive an exclusive three year trial contract to cater all events on the Stone Arch Bridge and the Plank/W River Road. When asked if this was a no- bid contract, staff sort of dodged the answer but said that staff prefers that only a single caterer receive the contract. Comm. Young sought to clarify and amend the staff proposal. She was shut down with an accusation of micromanagement. Comm. Erwin opposed the proposal. This proposal passed out of committee with Young and Erwin opposed and Berry Graves, Dziedzic, and Hauser in favor. I believe the proposal will go before full MPRB board at the next meeting. Some commissioner suggested contacting immediate neighbors about this proposal. That suggestion went nowhere. I don't recall any commissioners insisting that the proposal be submitted to local neighborhood groups, or advertised, or to be reviewed by a CAC. (I suggest that changing these sites from transportation and/or historic preservation/interpretation to shutting out the general public so as to assist the GMVCA with recruiting conventions is a major shift in use - one that requires reviews of earlier contracts with grantors who provided development funds for the Stone Arch and West River Road, so a citizen study/review committee seems in order.) Since I only saw a portion of the MPRB meeting without my full attention, I welcome corrections and clarification. Shawne FitzGerald Powderhorn REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the
Re: [Mpls] Stone Arch Bridge for Rent
Would the Park Board candidates (or their supporters) for specific districts and at-large comment on this proposal and the discussion/proposal for a mini-mall on the South end of Lake Calhoun. Bill Dooley Kenny REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re[Mpls]: Stone Arch Bridge for rent.
Good for you, Shawne and Christine, for giving us more news on the shock and dismay front in re the outlandish Parks situation. There's precedent for renting facilities in the parks but IMHO this is a special case because the bridge links major sections of the Historic District. Should the Library Board rent out the facilities that they oversee? Not just a room or an auditorium, but whole locations? Might not the City of Minneapolis find creative ways to justify renting out City Hall from time to time? What else have we got in the public's hands that can be used to turn a dime here and there? Somebody should reel these guys in before we have nothing left for the public's use and enjoyment! Fred Markus, Phillips West REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: Re[Mpls]: Stone Arch Bridge for rent.
On Oct 6, 2005, at 8:40 AM, Fredric Markus wrote: Should the Library Board rent out the facilities that they oversee? Not just a room or an auditorium, but whole locations? Might not the City of Minneapolis find creative ways to justify renting out City Hall from time to time? They just started renting out City Hall for weddings last month. I don't think you get the whole building, though. Frankly, doing wedding rental seems like a good idea to me. Of course, you wouldn't want it to shut off parts of the building the public needs access to. As described, the Stone Arch and Plank Road projects sound like they would shut off such access. David Brauer Kingfield REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Dyna Sluter posts: Long before we heard of E85, over a decade ago, under
Dyna Sluter posts: Long before we heard of E85, over a decade ago, under Peter's leadership Hennepin County trucks were testbeds for ethanol. Brandt: Credit, or blame depending on your point of view, for getting the Hennepin County fleet on ethanol should go to the incomparable John Derus, who served on the County Board through 1992. Here's an excerpt from a story I wrote in 1990, the year that Peter was elected a commissioner: Since Derus persuaded Hennepin County in 1983 to convert its gasoline-powered vehicles to an ethanol blend, it has consumed 1.5 million gallons of the fuel and put more than 20 million miles on a fleet of 280 vehicles. Or as the Mankato Free Press once famously put it: Wherever two or more people gather in the name of ethanol, Derus is there among them. Peter may have expanded this, but it was Derus who got the fleet going on ethanol. Steve Brandt Kingfield REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] addendum to Steve Brandt
Steve might have further added that it was the incomparable John Derus who perpetually touted light rail to the point of tedium, and credit for engineering the partnerships that inevitably produced the Hiawatha Line should go to him. Ed Felien Powderhorn REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Commissioner Hauser joins park reform movemenet
http://swjournal.com/articles/2005/09/23/opinion/opinion02.txt Letters 'No' vote on Fort I appreciated the article on the proposed Fort development at Ft. Snelling (Aug. 15-28). I voted against this project. Though the project seemed to fill a recreational need, I was concerned that the developer appeared to be a shell company, without assets to provide security. Further, the contract's length was too great for the uncertain nature of the project and renewable at the option of the developer. My concerns have, unfortunately, been substantiated. I am disappointed that The Fort has been such a problem. Marie Hauser, Park Commissioner, District 3, City Council candidate, 8th Ward Jason Stone Diamond Lake Candidate for Park District 5 REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Bad Bet
Wizard Marks posted this bet on Monday (exchange pasted below); I'm uncertain what she means by this two weeks statement unless someone suggested that the FBI would indict Dean Zimmerman two weeks before the election. Now hopefully when one practices brevity in posts, it results in some bit of clarity; but I guess I gotta blather on a bit. My brief point was that the FBI has nothing to do with indictments other than provide the evidence needed for the US Attorney to make them; one can assume that Tom Heffelfinger will act in a partisan way (I don't understand such an assumption) and bring in an indictment days before an election: that is what Wizard may have meant to bet and did not. Certainly if a US Attorney indicted Zimmerman, in any Administration but Dubya's, he would be handing in his resignation letter afterwards should it be based on what has been publicized to date. Hefflefinger is either going to make a better case and indict, or let this thing ferment a while before he attempts to dispose of the matter in the quietest possible way. I'd bet on the latter, if I were that sort of a gambler (I play MN State Lottery numbers games a bit and if I'm near a casino, I might pop in and drop a few bucks here and there on my way to the buffet). A safer bet might be that the matter fizzles after being bounced back to 'whatever' local authority, (Fair Campaign Practices Committee or something; I profess my ignorance of it for the moment), for some minor infraction of campaign law resulting in a fine and/or warning before or after the election, but I'm hoping that US Attorneys have better things to do in this time of War and other calamities and that Wizard loses the bet that she meant to make. A progressive can only hope that if Dubya's Dept. of Justice is throwing the legal equivalent of flaming bags of dog doo on local elections around the country, Republicans will go down in elections to come for a long, long time. Bill Kahn holding tightly to my money in Prospect Park In a message dated 10/6/05 1:31:59 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wizard Marks bets: My bet is that four or five days before the November election, the FBI will put an indictment on the table. Any takers? I'd take that bet, but since the FBI never brings indictments, I'll give Wizard a break. This one is pretty much up to the US Attorney to do. Off line, one person weighed in with two weeks. Any other suggestions? WizardMarks, Central REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] addendum to Steve Brandt
Steve might have further added that it was the incomparable John Derus who perpetually touted light rail to the point of tedium, and credit for engineering the partnerships that inevitably produced the Hiawatha Line should go to him. Ed Felien Powderhorn Good point, Ed. I did. See below: Paper: STAR TRIBUNE (Mpls.-St. Paul) Newspaper of the Twin Cities Headline: Derus' drive helped put light rail on the map // Working at the county level, he set the stage for today's Hiawatha groundbreaking. Date: 01/17/01 Section: NEWS Page: 01A Edition: METRO Byline: Steve Brandt; Staff Writer Graphic: PHOTO Length: 18.0 Subject: article;history;government;mass transit;building;profile Keys: john derus Slug: LRT17X When the speeches are made today to mark the groundbreaking of the Twin Cities area's first light-rail project, John Derus doesn't plan to be there. Nobody invited him. But it's arguable that no other public official did more in the long run to put urban rail transit on the radar of policymakers and the populace. Derus' efforts started when he became a Minneapolis alderman in 1971 and continued informally even after he left the Hennepin County Board 21 1/2 years later. He'd speak three or four times in some weeks to service clubs like the Kiwanis, extolling the virtues of rail transit. Walk into his office during the heyday of the county's light-rail planning, and he'd peddle it like a kid beseeching Santa for an electric train. If there was a map handy, he'd extemporize routes through the metro area and beyond, with trains linking Duluth and Mankato or St. Cloud and Rochester. He and his County Board allies forced the issue onto the metro agenda, lobbying with rural counties for a 1981 law that allowed counties to preserve abandoned rail lines. Hennepin County snapped up such lines, leading other metro counties into a lobbying effort that metro and state officials had to co-opt to control. The irony is that Derus won the war even though he lost his biggest battle. Light-rail transit is getting built. But counties are no longer in the driver's seat. Counties by themselves couldn't persuade the Legislature to appropriate the money. Some legislators said the obstacle was Derus himself. He had statewide political ambitions, and he made no secret of his scorn for those he viewed as too small-minded to see rail's virtues. Some legislators opposed rail as long as Derus was its prime force. Some people would manipulate the law, he said recently. They'd say you need another feasibility study, another environmental-impact statement. The tide began to turn five years years after Derus left office in 1993. First, Curt Johnson, a longtime rail skeptic who was then Metropolitan Council chairman, reversed his position. Then Gov. Arne Carlson softened his stance. And Carlson's successor, Jesse Ventura, became a cheerleader for running light-rail through his old south Minneapolis neighborhood. . A long interest The love affair between Derus and urban rail transit began early. During World War II, with men overseas, his mother, Josephine, became one of the first motorettes, women who drove streetcars for the Twin City Rapid Transit Co. When her baby-sitters fell through, she'd tote along preschooler John and his siblings to ride with her. The smell of coal burning in the potbellied stoves that heated streetcars, the whoosh of the cars' air doors and the hours with his mother loom large in Derus' memory. Later, she helped him find work at a diner near the northeast Minneapolis streetcar barn. Starting at 4 a.m., he mopped floors and served eye-opening coffee to his mother and her fellow drivers before he headed off to school. Years later, when Gov. Rudy Perpich signed a light-rail bill at the Lake Harriet streetcar, Derus made sure his mother was on hand. She gave Perpich lessons in driving a streetcar. He almost put us through the window, Derus recalled. The rail system that will be built won't have the downtown Minneapolis tunnel Derus long sought as a means of making it faster. But the imminent driving of spikes for his cherished public-works project, one he describes as an idea that's come and gone and come again, makes him a happy man. A lot of people have worked hard on it, he said. And he has no hard feelings about not being invited today. I'm not in that loop anymore, he said. Steve Brandt Star Tribune REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post
[Mpls] In Ballot Box: Random notes on last night's mayoral debate
In Ballot Box: Random notes on last night's mayoral debate Go to: http://www.mplsobserver.com/ballot_box -- Craig Cox Founder/Editor The Minneapolis Observer www.mplsobserver.com 612/721-0285 Support the independent media! Pick up your neighborhood newspaper! REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: Re[Mpls]: Stone Arch Bridge for rent.
Their next project is to rent out all the air in Minneapolis, but only for 60 to 90 minutes at a time, and only now and then, so not to worry. Think of all the money the private sector could make selling oxygen masks! Clearly, having air as a public commons resource is a direct affront to the spirit of capitalism, free enterprise, individual inititative, and all that has made America what it is today! Or would you rather get your inferior air from the nanny city? Hmm? Hmm? I won't feel good until I'm dropping a quarter into the meter for the next 10 minutes of air. As for what happens to the poor people and the animals, who needs them? --David Shove Roseville On Thu, 6 Oct 2005, David Brauer wrote: On Oct 6, 2005, at 8:40 AM, Fredric Markus wrote: Should the Library Board rent out the facilities that they oversee? Not just a room or an auditorium, but whole locations? Might not the City of Minneapolis find creative ways to justify renting out City Hall from time to time? They just started renting out City Hall for weddings last month. I don't think you get the whole building, though. Frankly, doing wedding rental seems like a good idea to me. Of course, you wouldn't want it to shut off parts of the building the public needs access to. As described, the Stone Arch and Plank Road projects sound like they would shut off such access. David Brauer Kingfield REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Dyna Sluter posts: Long before we heard of E85, over a decade ago, under
While experiencing this thread I'll urge list members to make sure to think about the example it uses: E85 and Hybrid automobiles. I'm not the first to pose the question, but is the road to Hell paved with Hybrid automobiles? I believe it was John Tierney writing in the NY Times a couple of months ago about California opening up HOV lanes to Hybrid vehicles who worded the thought so well. Automobiles have dominated human lives for such a short period of time. Let's not fall into the trap of thinking that bettering a wrong-headed infrastructure switch (away from rail to automobiles) is the answer. E85 and Hybrid vehicles could just prolong the use of fossil fuels alowing the fossil fuel and auto industries to eek out a lot more profit and a bit more life before their inevitable collapse. All resulting in the same amount of fuel burned and emmissions emitted just over a longer period of time. Let's stop the building of freeways to nowhere and continue building trains to nowhere (except high levels of ridership). Then we can focus on that pesky electric grid--it's really not that complicated. Maybe Minneapolis should add a municiple power grid along side a municiple Wi-Fi network. I realize this is in stark contrast to the direction our State leaders are currently pointing us. Will our potential city leaders chart a similar course? Matty Lang, Central - Yahoo! for Good Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Dirty tricks...
Anyone betting there will be dirty tricks shortly before the November election could not be charged with gambling. It's a sure thing. A lock. For 40 years, since that upstart Charles Stenvig an independent, defeated the powerful DFL candidate for mayor, any Independent, Green, Republican or minor DFL'r who became too powerful or close to the money, has been squashed by any means necessary to assure his/her defeat. Does anyone really believe it was necessary or even prudent to exercise a federal search warrant of a sitting council person five days before a primary election? If evidence and justice were truly being sought, a search AFTER the election would most certainly result in more incriminating evidence. If the council person was the primary winner and he was influenced by bribes, those seeking favors would be lined up with cash in hand. Indisputable proof of his guilt. This was not the case. Why would professional, experienced investigators jeopardize their case with premature public knowledge of their investigation? Look to those who would gain by eliminating a Green candidate. His opponent? Sure. All other candidates being opposed by Greens, by implication? Sure. The sitting mayor's opponent, again by implication? Sure. Would any of these be privy to the FBI's investigation, doughtful? Would any of these be powerful enough to influence the timing of the execution of a Federal search warrant? No...who would? As a professional courtesy, many times when a Federal investigation is underway, the local law enforcement agencies are advised. Would the Minneapolis police chief be advised? Not likely. Too close to the mayor. Too close to the subject. Would the Hennepin County sheriff be advised? Possibly, but what would he, with a job for life, gain by suggesting the timing of the execution of a search warrant on a Minneapolis politician? How about the Hennepin County Attorney? What would she gain? Nothing, as the HC Attorney but how about in running for a higher, federal office? It would be far more helpful to her to be guaranteed the endorsement of a newly elected Minneapolis mayor and former Hennepin County Commissioner than a possible, lukewarm, endorsement by the incumbent mayor who fell in disfavor with the DFL machine when he upset their darling, Sharon. I merely offer this scenario as a topic for discussion. It certainly makes more sense than believing two FBI agents sat around saying to each other, let's have a little fun with the Minneapolis primary election and execute this search warrant just before the election. George Janssen Longfellow REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Bad Bet
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Wizard Marks posted this bet on Monday (exchange pasted below); I'm uncertain what she means by this two weeks statement unless someone suggested that the FBI would indict Dean Zimmerman two weeks before the election. OK. My bet was that five days (the Thursday) before the election, the US Atty, Heffelfinger, would indict Zimmermann. Another person, off list, said the indictment would come down two weeks before the November election. You say you're taking the bet because you expect Heffelfinger to let an indictment slide into oblivion, based on the affidavit presented on Tilsen's blog. OK. I'll add to that that if the US Atty does indict, Zimmermann will win handily. WizardMarks, Central Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] No Special Session for Twins Stadium
Political reporter Pat Kessler is reporting the governor and legislative leaders have agreed to a one-day special session: Gophers Stadium and Maple Grove Hospital only. No Twins or Vikings Stadium. I guess the Twins are very upset since they claim their proposal has no state money. Could it be the Las Vegas or Monterrey Twins? Bill Dooley Kenny REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Minneapolis election links and important online discussions - Invite others today
This is a short message to pass on about the Minneapolis Issues Forum and the Mpls2005 election information directory. Pass it on today. As a forum member, your recommendation to your friends to join this forum and visit the election links web site is key to engaging more Minneapolitans in this important election season. Join the Minneapolis Issues Forum - ** http://e-democracy.org/mpls ** The forum is an active discussion of local issues this election season and beyond. Launched in 1998 and facilitated for civility, this forum is the world's largest city-wide online public issues forum. To subscribe, visit: http://e-democracy.org/mpls Or e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cast an Informed Vote, Visit Candidate and Civic Election Websites -- ** http://e-democracy.org/mpls2005 ** With the help of scores of Minneapolis Issues Forum members, the most comprehensive collection of local election links we've ever collected is now online. Who is running for the Minneapolis Dog Catcher? It includes links right down the ballot to races you often don't know exist until you are in the voting booth: - Minneapolis candidates for Mayor - Minneapolis City Council candidates - Minneapolis Park, Library, and Estimate board candidates ... as well as other non-partisan, government, and media links and an election calendar you can edit. Visit Mpls2005 today: http://e-democracy.org/mpls2005 Spread the word about the forum and election information website by sharing this message with friends, by passing it on to e-mail lists, and by linking to it from other election-related websites. Thanks, Steven Clift Board Chair, E-Democracy.Org ^ ^ ^^ Steven L. Clift- - - W: http://publicus.net Minneapolis- - - - E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minnesota - - - - - - T: +1.612.822.8667 USA- - - - Skype/MSN/Y!/AIM: netclift Join Democracies Online: http://dowire.org Start an Issues Forum: http://e-democracy.org/if REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Re: Minneapolis election links and important online discussions - Invite others today
Hey campaigns, Please add a link to http://e-democracy.org/mpls2005 to help your site visitors navigate all the online election resources available. You'll get kudos for not being a dead end site. And while you could boldly link directly to your opponents website, with a link to our non-partisan starting point you'll demonstrate the confidence to allow voters to compare your message with others. Also, candidates are encouraged to mention the Minneapolis Issues Forum http://e-democracy.org/mpls and the election web site via their e-mail newsletters. The more of your supporters who participate in the forum the better. And when the election is over, whether you've won or lost, you can take credit for helping expand the voice of citizens in our community's agenda-setting process! Thanks, Steven Clift E-Democracy.Org P.S. Please let me know when you campaign adds a link and/or mentions the forum to your supporters. I'll put together a list of small d democracy thank you's down the road for the forum. ^ ^ ^^ Steven L. Clift- - - W: http://publicus.net Minneapolis- - - - E: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Minnesota - - - - - - T: +1.612.822.8667 USA- - - - Skype/MSN/Y!/AIM: netclift Join Democracies Online: http://dowire.org Start an Issues Forum: http://e-democracy.org/if REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Dyna Sluter posts: Long before we heard of E85, over a decade ago, under
Rybak or McLaughlin: both will see that new unsustainable boondoggles (sports stadia and lots more roads) are built while vital sustainable infrastructure, education,, shelter and health issues are neglected. We need to go in a radically different direction than we are. Neither of the DFL endorsed candidates understand this. Neither will set a new course for Minneapolis. Same old same old, says Gary Hoover. For example, our local politicians dutifully refuse, says Hoover, and our local politicians carefully refuse., he says again and again and again that they refuse. I suspect that every human culture on earth has been unsustainable right up to the present day; it has been one resource after another exhausted as we adopt newer technologies to exploit and exhaust the next. Native Americans wiped out an older and larger species of American Bison thousands of years before European immigrants came and nearly wiped out the current species; the record for similar patterns on other continents is clear. Population blooms as Hoover calls them, are not limited to the last few centuries we have been using fossil fuels, but they did used to resemble the predator/prey population graphs of scientists studying animals other than humans more; except that after periods of starving following depletion of a given resource with a studied MO or the occassional draught, humans eventually figure out how to move on to the next instead of dying out. The idea that sustainable technologies and sustainable lifeways are the exclusive domain of the American Green Party is ludicrous. We have been moving in that direction with Two Party domination in the last half century in this country long before there was an active US Green Party; but I believe it began to fall apart with the appearance of the Greens. The dismantling of our environmental protections by the Dubya Administration paralleled by Pawlenty at our state level would not have been possible without the rants of Greens helping to oust the moderate and progressive politicians of both Democratic and Republican Parties who made them possible (not to discount God, Guns, and Gays rhetoric of the Right). Greens, as the Palestinians were want to do, are snatching defeat from the jaws of victory. While it is true in the many posts of this thread that neither the mayor nor Peter McLaughlin can claim all the credit for every good environmental policy of Minneapolis or Hennepin County government (but RT tries all the same), the same is also true in assigning blame for the failures of our government. Hybrids are not the future. Both hybrid technology and biofuels are stop gap measures to reach cleaner and more sustainable transportation technology on the horizon; the laws of thermodynamics don't change 'cause you burn ethanol fermented from corn and distilled, or oil from soy. You probably can't manufacture and maintain bicycles without fossil fuels right now, same for planes, trains, and autombiles. And I wish I knew just what sustainable urban infrastructure, as Hoover calls it, looked like. I know I've been involved with efforts in Minneapolis to use recycled materials and energy effiecient technology and solar where it makes sense in new construction and plans to recycle that construction when the time comes, as it always does unless it becomes historically significant for some reason. Let Greens like Hoover peddle peace and sustainable urban infrastructure, but the people who need to buy the former are not interested, the latter is gobbledegook, and I refuse to listen anymore. Bill Kahn taking my turn to rant in Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] No Special Session for Twins Stadium
At 04:18 PM 10/6/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Political reporter Pat Kessler is reporting the governor and legislative leaders have agreed to a one-day special session: Gophers Stadium and Maple Grove Hospital only. No Twins or Vikings Stadium. I guess the Twins are very upset since they claim their proposal has no state money. Could it be the Las Vegas or Monterrey Twins? Yup, the Twins proposal consists of sticking it to Hennepin County Taxpayers. It really torks me off when outstate legislators feel that it's a nice free vote to raise Hennepin County sales taxes. If the Twins are a statewide resource, the state should be stepping up to the plate on this. Why can't the Twins spend the $ they are spending on lobbying the legislature to do a full court press of business - if this is such a good deal, the business community would be the appropriate folks to step up to the plate - rather than the taxpayers. Former legislator John Jordan on his blog talks about wanting to tar and feather stadium opponent John Knight. Eva Young Near North Minneapolis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lloydletta's Nooz http://lloydletta.blogspot.com Dump Michele Bachmann http://dumpbachmann.blogspot.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, printer (1706 - 1790) http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/1381.html REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Out of Office auto-reply Re: Mpls Digest, Vol 22, Issue 11
I am out of the office until Monday 10/10/05. I will receive your message then and reply as soon as I can. Thanks. Matthew REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Commissioner Hauser joins park reform movemenet
At 10:19 AM 10/6/2005, Jason C Stone wrote: http://swjournal.com/articles/2005/09/23/opinion/opinion02.txt Letters 'No' vote on Fort I appreciated the article on the proposed Fort development at Ft. Snelling (Aug. 15-28). I voted against this project. Though the project seemed to fill a recreational need, I was concerned that the developer appeared to be a shell company, without assets to provide security. Further, the contract's length was too great for the uncertain nature of the project and renewable at the option of the developer. My concerns have, unfortunately, been substantiated. I am disappointed that The Fort has been such a problem. Marie Hauser, Park Commissioner, District 3, City Council candidate, 8th Ward Marie Hauser is VERY defensive about her appalling Park Board record. That was evident at the SW Journal/Southside Pride forum before the primary. Eva Young Near North Minneapolis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lloydletta's Nooz http://lloydletta.blogspot.com Dump Michele Bachmann http://dumpbachmann.blogspot.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, printer (1706 - 1790) http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/1381.html REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] The Twins Deserve a Special Session most of all
It doesnt sound dead yet. The original poster jumped the gun... Hopefully they can come to some agreement on this and get a deal done, its not the state, what do they care? It sounds like the only way its ever going to happen...saying the Twins should do it themselves is all well and good, its just never going to happen. The Hennepin County Commissioners voted to raise the sales tax (if they Legislature will permit)...out-state legislators have nothing to do with it. I support the Commissioners who passed the measure. I look forward to going to a new downtown Mpls ballpark. Anthony Thompson Standish -Original Message- From: Eva Young [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mpls@mnforum.org Sent: Thu, 06 Oct 2005 23:09:54 -0500 Subject: Re: [Mpls] No Special Session for Twins Stadium At 04:18 PM 10/6/2005, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Political reporter Pat Kessler is reporting the governor and legislative leaders have agreed to a one-day special session: Gophers Stadium and Maple Grove Hospital only. No Twins or Vikings Stadium. I guess the Twins are very upset since they claim their proposal has no state money. Could it be the Las Vegas or Monterrey Twins? Yup, the Twins proposal consists of sticking it to Hennepin County Taxpayers. It really torks me off when outstate legislators feel that it's a nice free vote to raise Hennepin County sales taxes. If the Twins are a statewide resource, the state should be stepping up to the plate on this. Why can't the Twins spend the $ they are spending on lobbying the legislature to do a full court press of business - if this is such a good deal, the business community would be the appropriate folks to step up to the plate - rather than the taxpayers. Former legislator John Jordan on his blog talks about wanting to tar and feather stadium opponent John Knight. Eva Young Near North Minneapolis [EMAIL PROTECTED] Lloydletta's Nooz http://lloydletta.blogspot.com Dump Michele Bachmann http://dumpbachmann.blogspot.com They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759, US author, diplomat, inventor, physicist, politician, printer (1706 - 1790) http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/1381.html REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Wirth Hiouse -Free Public Tours - YOUR INVITATION
Please join Theodore J. Wirth (Grandson) and the Minneapolis Parks Legacy Society for a free public tour of the historic Theodore Wirth Home and Administration Building Saturday, October 8 Noon to 4 PM (arrive by 3 PM if you want a complete tour) 3954 Bryant Avenue South in Lyndale Farmstead Park Theodore Wirth's home, office and drafting room will come alive again from noon to 4 PM, on Saturday, October 8. You will be greeted by Wirth's grandson and namesake, Theodore J. Wirth and the Minneapolis Parks Legacy Society. Located in Lyndale Farmstead Park, at 3954 Bryant Avenue South, the home was built for Wirth by the Minneapolis Board of Park Commissioners as a result of negotiations that lured Theodore Wirth from his comfortable position as Superintendent of Hartford Connecticut Parks in 1906. Wirth asked for a home of his own design, to be located in a park, with offices where he could be inspired by watching people, especially children, using the park Just like in Field of Dreams, if they would build it, he would come. And so Charles Loring agreed. Wirth raised his family in the home and dedicated the rest of his life to the expansion, design and development of the Minneapolis Park System. The home includes Wirth's design office and a drafting room. Within those walls and on those drafting tables Theodore Wirth implemented his DREAM ... That Minneapolis should be known as a Garden City and become the Number One Rated Park System in the Nation. Those rooms will be recreated with period furnishings, maps and drawings - replicating their earlier visual character. The Society has accomplished recognition for the Theodore Wirth Home and Administration Building to be placed on the National Register of Historic Places and has asked the Minneapolis Park Board for permission to create an interpretive learning center within the building - as a service to the public - at no cost to the Park Board. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Dirty tricks...
--- George Janssen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Anyone betting there will be dirty tricks shortly before the November election could not be charged with gambling. It's a sure thing. A lock. It's called an October Surprise in politics and its usually something that comes at the very end. No particular party owns this tactic as all use it on every level and have done so for decades. Its not Minneapolis specific. For 40 years, since that upstart Charles Stenvig an independent, defeated the powerful DFL candidate for mayor, any Independent, Green, Republican or minor DFL'r who became too powerful or close to the money, has been squashed by any means necessary to assure his/her defeat. Upstart Charles Stenvig? He was a conservative old school law and order cop that brought some very controversal and failed police policies that introduced even more divide to changing times. In 1971 his DFL opponent happened to be one of the most honorable and honored citizens of Minneapolis, an African American named Harry Davies. I don't know what the DFL did to try and squash Stenvig's campaign, but Davis' family had to have FBI protection and escort everywhere they went. Senators Humphrey and Mondale chose to campaign wth him in Northeast Mpls neighborhoods where the opposition was physical and potentially deadly. That 'upstart' Stenvig really had to dodge the powerful DFL squashing machine. Poor guy. Does anyone really believe it was necessary or even prudent to exercise a federal search warrant of a sitting council person five days before a primary election? If evidence and justice were truly being sought, a search AFTER the election would most certainly result in more incriminating evidence. If the council person was the primary winner and he was influenced by bribes, those seeking favors would be lined up with cash in hand. Indisputable proof of his guilt. This was not the case. Why would professional, experienced investigators jeopardize their case with premature public knowledge of their investigation? Does anybody think the FBI gives a hoot about local politics? Or, federal code violations? I would gander that they went public with the information they have because they're pretty sure of their case. Considering that as you put it, they are professional and experienced investigators. Is there proof otherwise? They say they have video and plenty of audio along with sworn witnesses. Look to those who would gain by eliminating a Green candidate. His opponent? Sure. All other candidates being opposed by Greens, by implication? Sure. The sitting mayor's opponent, again by implication? Sure. Would any of these be privy to the FBI's investigation, doughtful? Would any of these be powerful enough to influence the timing of the execution of a Federal search warrant? No...who would? The only ones to gain by eliminating a Green candidate would be the candidates opponent. In this case, the opponent was never really an entrenched insider to the DFL. Let me be clear on what you are suggesting. Are you saying the Robert Lilligren and Peter Mclaughlin are the one who gain? They are ones you are leading us to look at. I suggest that you ask Zimmerman did he really get caught doing it. As a professional courtesy, many times when a Federal investigation is underway, the local law enforcement agencies are advised. Since when? Not if that 'heads up' could affect their case. I would think when it involves city officials and federal charges, that until the depth of the case is known, they wouldn't contact city cops. Maybe the cheif will get a heads up. I noticed you used the qualifier 'many times'. That's not all the time and doesn't indicate standard policy. Would the Minneapolis police chief be advised? Not likely. Too close to the mayor. Too close to the subject. Would the Hennepin County sheriff be advised? Possibly, but what would he, with a job for life, gain by suggesting the timing of the execution of a search warrant on a Minneapolis politician? The Cheif probably knew. The sheriff is not a life time job, he's up for re-election next year. Federal charges. Federal judge signs the warrant for federal law enforcement agents to follow through, under the watchful eye of the federal attornies. So its a federal judge working with the U.S. Attorneys office and the FBI. Where does the city jurisdiction come in? Or county? How about the Hennepin County Attorney? What would she gain? Nothing, as the HC Attorney but how about in running for a higher, federal office? It would be far more helpful to her to be guaranteed the endorsement of a newly elected Minneapolis mayor and former Hennepin County Commissioner than a possible, lukewarm, endorsement by the incumbent mayor who fell in disfavor with the DFL machine when he upset their darling, Sharon. And eight years before that Sharon upset DFL uber player John Derus. Its
Re: [Mpls] In Ballot Box: Fifth Ward fireworks
--- Tamir Nolley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Bringing NJ L's husband in to the debate and calling him a pornographer adds a nasty, disgusting personal tone to this debate. (snip) To those of us who had had the doors of city hall repeatedly slammed in our faces and were threatened with lawsuits (as happened to a list member) when Jackie Cherryhomes didn't like what we had to say,... After all the things that were/are constantly said about Jackie on this list, the only time she stepped in was to set that person straight that you are speaking of is when he brought her husband into this and accused him of representing massage parlors and strip joints and possibly owning stake in them. As you put it, it not only brought a 'disgusting personal tone' but, it was a complete lie. So I'm sure you can understand, afterall four years later you find that almost exact thing nasty and disgusting. Eric Mitchell Saint Paul(5th Ward last go round) __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
