On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 11:58 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> So the recommendation to get that /24 is to cheat or otherwise mislead in
> your justification?
I gave up on the credibility of ARIN's justified need policy when the
organization decided it was OK to transfer ARIN addresses to China
(which
in Wilson"
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 1:40:48 PM
Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?
On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 2:14 PM, Justin Wilson wrote:
> Even to buy it on the secondary market you have to have justification and
> show usage. So if someone buys a
dwest-ix.com
- Original Message -
From: "Martin List-Petersen"
To: "Justin Wilson" , nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 1:24:22 PM
Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?
Hi,
needing a /24 to participate in BGP has always been sort of a world-wide
st
ARIN's fee for a /24 is $250 https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html
That's about 1/15th of the price of a /24 on the market.
Of course, they don't have any /24s.
Unless, of course, you're deploying IPv6 and just need the /24 for your
NAT64 box, DS-Lite AFTR, or MAP-T BR.
https://www.arin
It might be archaic thinking but back in the day routers were not all that
powerful and table size was a concern so /24 was it. ARIN kind of figured if
you were smaller than a /24 you were not really on their radar and you needed
to talk to an upstream provider. It is a big system to manage an
On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 2:14 PM, Justin Wilson wrote:
> Even to buy it on the secondary market you have to have justification and
> show usage. So if someone buys a /24 and really only needs a /25 then what?
Hi Justin,
If you can't justify a /24 with a single hypervisor, you aren't being
creat
Hi,
needing a /24 to participate in BGP has always been sort of a world-wide
standard.
Even before the explosion of the IPv4 BGP full table (which has more
than doubled in the last decade), that was the standard.
Because . if carriers (and ISPs) accepted upstream < /24, then you'd
have
Even to buy it on the secondary market you have to have justification and show
usage. So if someone buys a /24 and really only needs a /25 then what? It
ARIN, or others for that matter, going to relax those requirements? If I am an
ISP and need to do BGP, maybe because I have a big downstream
Marketplaces - supply and demand and costs to operate as Bill noted (never
thought of that) will settle out the need.
Thank You
Bob Evans
CTO
> I am looking at it from an ARIN justification point. If you are a small
> operator and need a /24 you have justification if you give customerâs
> p
I am looking at it from an ARIN justification point. If you are a small
operator and need a /24 you have justification if you give customer’s publics,
but is it a great line if you are only giving out publics for people who need
cameras or need to connect in from the outside world. If I need a
On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 1:19 PM, Justin Wilson wrote:
> I agree that the global routing table is pretty bloated as is. But what kind
> of a solution for providers who need to participate in BGP but only need a
> /25?
Hi Justin,
If you need a /25 and BGP for multihoming or anycasting, get a /2
On the consulting side, I do smaller than /24 blocks to customers over tunnels.
So far this is the only option we have found that works for the smaller ISP.
We all know the routing table is bloated. We all know everyone *should* be
moving toward IPV6. A whole different discussion. But, for no
Agreed, Reputation is everything. It is why we only work with well known
Legacy IPv4 space at this time (hence, use anywhere statement). Our space
rents for about 4x other space found on other sites. We don't do the
volume business of our competitors. Those businesses with questionable
address spac
Yes, exactly right. You would probably have to tunnel the /27 back to where
the >/24 lives. That's the only way I can see of it working "anywhere".
That's a technically valid solution but maybe not so hot if you are looking for
high redundancy/availability since you are dependent on the tunn
That site you quoted looks like text that I created. For CloudIPv4.com
(part of RentIPv4.com).
To peer most networks require assigned IPv4 space. Most networks do not
want to burn a /24 to peer. The local peering routers will propagate a
/25... /30.. etc. from the peering platform to the rest of
o: nanog@nanog.org
>Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?
>
>Joining an IX is in most cases much more expensive than buying a /24. You can
>get a /26 from your upstream. Having multiple upstreams is in most cases much
>more expensive than buying a /24.
>
>I do not see a
Joining an IX is in most cases much more expensive than buying a /24. You
can get a /26 from your upstream. Having multiple upstreams is in most
cases much more expensive than buying a /24.
I do not see a real problem here. Aside from the irritation of having to
pay for resources others got for fr
On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 7:57 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> No disrespect, but here's some disrespect?
>
> $5k for some numbers or $5k for the equipment to bring Internet to another
> hundred people?
>
"It's not worth spending $5k" is a very different statement than "I can't
afford $5k." The former is
Getting too far into politics now, me thinks.
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
Midwest Internet Exchange
The Brothers WISP
- Original Message -
From: "Ken Chase"
To: "valdis kletnieks"
Cc: "NANOG"
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 20
Message -
From: "Michael Hallgren"
To: "William Herrin"
Cc: "NANOG"
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 4:56:21 PM
Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?
By the way, RIPE still seems to provide fresh /22s to new LIRs. Same
in the ARIN region?
mh
Le 4 janv.
iam Herrin"
To: "Mike Hammett"
Cc: "NANOG"
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 5:21:41 PM
Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?
On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 6:06 PM, Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net > wrote:
There are hundreds of ISPs with under 500 custome
$5k aint nothing. I started with less than that (but
hung off the colo's in house bw through NAC.net til I
could wean off it). I imagine tiny communities (and say on
remote native reserves for eg) that $5k additional expense
could be limiting.
And soon to become even harder to setup an isp?
ttps
On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 19:20:26 -0500, Justin Wilson said:
> How is this a good use of resources when they have to justify 80% of a /24 in
> which they only need half of? I have 5 ISPs I work with that have 300-500
> customer and are using a /26 or smaller of IP space. They canât have true
> redund
And this is exactly what other companies are doing. The traditional way of
doing a startup ISP is:
1.You get provider assigned IP space
2.You grow big enough to get your own IP space, historically from ARIN.
Nowadays you have to buy it on the open market.
3.You re-adddress your network for the
Most of the ones I know personally are doing CGN and have no real need for IP
addresses. I know of Wireless ISPs with 2000 customers and only about 50 IPv4
addresses in use for nat and the occasional Public IP customer.
Justin Wilson
j...@mtin.net
www.mtin.net
www.midwest-ix.com
> On Jan 4,
I can tell you that when we started (and there were IP's still available)
we first leased from another company to get our feet when and run tests
before we requested our own resources.
On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 6:21 PM, William Herrin wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 6:06 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 6:06 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> There are hundreds of ISPs with under 500 customers. More start up every
> week. No need to marginalize them.
>
Hi Mike,
No disrespect, but anyone who can't afford to spend $5000 on resources
critical to their activity is not in the Internet
e Brothers WISP
- Original Message -
From: "valdis kletnieks"
To: "Justin Wilson"
Cc: "NANOG"
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 4:51:20 PM
Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?
On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 17:40:27 -0500, Justin Wilson said:
> I know of do
Cc: "NANOG"
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 4:56:21 PM
Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?
By the way, RIPE still seems to provide fresh /22s to new LIRs. Same in the
ARIN region?
mh
Le 4 janv. 2018 à 23:50, à 23:50, William Herrin a écrit:
>On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 5:40 P
in Wilson"
Cc: "NANOG"
Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 4:48:40 PM
Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?
On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Justin Wilson wrote:
> I know of dozens, if not hundreds of small ISPs that can’t participate in
> BGP because they don’t
By the way, RIPE still seems to provide fresh /22s to new LIRs. Same in the
ARIN region?
mh
Le 4 janv. 2018 à 23:50, à 23:50, William Herrin a écrit:
>On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Justin Wilson wrote:
>
>> I know of dozens, if not hundreds of small ISPs that can’t
>participate in
>> BGP beca
On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 17:40:27 -0500, Justin Wilson said:
> I know of dozens, if not hundreds of small ISPs that canât participate in
> BGP
> because they donât have big enough blocks.
What's the business model, if you have less than 120 customers? Selling
value-add services on top of moving th
On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Justin Wilson wrote:
> I know of dozens, if not hundreds of small ISPs that can’t participate in
> BGP because they don’t have big enough blocks.
Hi Justin,
Not much of an ISP if they can't get a /24. We're talking about a one-time
market purchase under $5000 an
Yes, we do this for several clients. We route them a smaller than 24 block
over a tunnel.
Which bring up an interesting question. Will there be a time where the
smallest block size recognized will be something smaller than a /24? /25, /26 ?
Most modern routers have the horsepower to deal with
Thanks Bill. Kinda ugly, but OK I see... Prefer v6 ;-)
mh
Le 4 janv. 2018 à 23:17, à 23:17, William Herrin a écrit:
>On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 5:07 PM, Michael Hallgren wrote:
>
>> Am I missing something? What's the trigger for doing tunneling here?
>>
>
>With "IP address leasing" you aren't connec
On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 5:07 PM, Michael Hallgren wrote:
> Am I missing something? What's the trigger for doing tunneling here?
>
With "IP address leasing" you aren't connected to the network which holds
the address registration.
For leasing less than a /24, they need a plan other than "advertis
Le 2018-01-04 20:16, Job Snijders a écrit :
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 at 20:13, Filip Hruska wrote:
I have stumbled upon this site [1] which seems to offer /27 IPv4
leasing.
They also claim "All of our IPv4 address space can be used on any
network
in any location."
I thought that the smallest pref
Le 2018-01-04 20:27, Harald Koch a écrit :
"IPv6 available upon request. "
LOL.
+1 :-)
mh
On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 2:16 PM, Job Snijders wrote:
> On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 at 20:13, Filip Hruska wrote:
> > I thought that the smallest prefix size one could get routed globally is
> > /24? So how does this work?
> >
> Probably with GRE, IPIP or OpenVPN tunnels.
>
Hi Flip, Job:
With the coopera
Thanks for all the responses!
Seems like I was right about doubting this.
Regards
--
Filip Hruska
Linux System Administrator
Dne 1/4/18 v 20:20 Matt Harris napsal(a):
They're probably using GRE or other sorts of tunnels, I'd imagine? It
would likely involve increased latency, as any packets
"IPv6 available upon request. "
LOL.
--
Harald
Notice that the LOA is only checked off on /24 or larger.
Luke Guillory
Vice President – Technology and Innovation
Tel:985.536.1212
Fax:985.536.0300
Email: lguill...@reservetele.com
Reserve Telecommunications
100 RTC Dr
Reserve, LA 70084
_
On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 at 20:13, Filip Hruska wrote:
> I have stumbled upon this site [1] which seems to offer /27 IPv4 leasing.
> They also claim "All of our IPv4 address space can be used on any network
> in any location."
>
> I thought that the smallest prefix size one could get routed globally is
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