Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

On Sun, Mar 18, 2018 at 11:58 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > So the recommendation to get that /24 is to cheat or otherwise mislead in > your justification? I gave up on the credibility of ARIN's justified need policy when the organization decided it was OK to transfer ARIN

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

...@herrin.us> To: "Justin Wilson" <li...@mtin.net> Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 1:40:48 PM Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing? On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 2:14 PM, Justin Wilson <li...@mtin.net> wrote: > Even to buy it on the secondary market you hav

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

-ix.com - Original Message - From: "Martin List-Petersen" <mar...@airwire.ie> To: "Justin Wilson" <li...@mtin.net>, nanog@nanog.org Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2018 1:24:22 PM Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing? Hi, needing a /24 to participate in BGP

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

ARIN's fee for a /24 is $250 https://www.arin.net/fees/fee_schedule.html That's about 1/15th of the price of a /24 on the market. Of course, they don't have any /24s. Unless, of course, you're deploying IPv6 and just need the /24 for your NAT64 box, DS-Lite AFTR, or MAP-T BR.

RE: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

It might be archaic thinking but back in the day routers were not all that powerful and table size was a concern so /24 was it. ARIN kind of figured if you were smaller than a /24 you were not really on their radar and you needed to talk to an upstream provider. It is a big system to manage

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 2:14 PM, Justin Wilson wrote: > Even to buy it on the secondary market you have to have justification and > show usage. So if someone buys a /24 and really only needs a /25 then what? Hi Justin, If you can't justify a /24 with a single hypervisor, you

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

Hi, needing a /24 to participate in BGP has always been sort of a world-wide standard. Even before the explosion of the IPv4 BGP full table (which has more than doubled in the last decade), that was the standard. Because . if carriers (and ISPs) accepted upstream < /24, then you'd

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

Even to buy it on the secondary market you have to have justification and show usage. So if someone buys a /24 and really only needs a /25 then what? It ARIN, or others for that matter, going to relax those requirements? If I am an ISP and need to do BGP, maybe because I have a big downstream

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

Marketplaces - supply and demand and costs to operate as Bill noted (never thought of that) will settle out the need. Thank You Bob Evans CTO > I am looking at it from an ARIN justification point. If you are a small > operator and need a /24 you have justification if you give customer’s >

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

I am looking at it from an ARIN justification point. If you are a small operator and need a /24 you have justification if you give customer’s publics, but is it a great line if you are only giving out publics for people who need cameras or need to connect in from the outside world. If I need a

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 1:19 PM, Justin Wilson wrote: > I agree that the global routing table is pretty bloated as is. But what kind > of a solution for providers who need to participate in BGP but only need a > /25? Hi Justin, If you need a /25 and BGP for multihoming or

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

On the consulting side, I do smaller than /24 blocks to customers over tunnels. So far this is the only option we have found that works for the smaller ISP. We all know the routing table is bloated. We all know everyone *should* be moving toward IPV6. A whole different discussion. But, for

RE: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

Agreed, Reputation is everything. It is why we only work with well known Legacy IPv4 space at this time (hence, use anywhere statement). Our space rents for about 4x other space found on other sites. We don't do the volume business of our competitors. Those businesses with questionable address

RE: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

Yes, exactly right. You would probably have to tunnel the /27 back to where the >/24 lives. That's the only way I can see of it working "anywhere". That's a technically valid solution but maybe not so hot if you are looking for high redundancy/availability since you are dependent on the

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

That site you quoted looks like text that I created. For CloudIPv4.com (part of RentIPv4.com). To peer most networks require assigned IPv4 space. Most networks do not want to burn a /24 to peer. The local peering routers will propagate a /25... /30.. etc. from the peering platform to the rest of

RE: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

org >Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing? > >Joining an IX is in most cases much more expensive than buying a /24. You can >get a /26 from your upstream. Having multiple upstreams is in most cases much >more expensive than buying a /24. > >I do not see a real proble

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

Joining an IX is in most cases much more expensive than buying a /24. You can get a /26 from your upstream. Having multiple upstreams is in most cases much more expensive than buying a /24. I do not see a real problem here. Aside from the irritation of having to pay for resources others got for

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 7:57 AM, Mike Hammett wrote: > No disrespect, but here's some disrespect? > > $5k for some numbers or $5k for the equipment to bring Internet to another > hundred people? > "It's not worth spending $5k" is a very different statement than "I can't afford

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

OG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 9:53:03 PM Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing? $5k aint nothing. I started with less than that (but hung off the colo's in house bw through NAC.net til I could wean off it). I imagine tiny communities (and say on remote nat

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

Message - From: "Michael Hallgren" <m...@xalto.net> To: "William Herrin" <b...@herrin.us> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 4:56:21 PM Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing? By the way, RIPE still seems to

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

errin" <b...@herrin.us> To: "Mike Hammett" <na...@ics-il.net> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 5:21:41 PM Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing? On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 6:06 PM, Mike Hammett < na...@ics-il.net &g

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

$5k aint nothing. I started with less than that (but hung off the colo's in house bw through NAC.net til I could wean off it). I imagine tiny communities (and say on remote native reserves for eg) that $5k additional expense could be limiting. And soon to become even harder to setup an isp?

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 19:20:26 -0500, Justin Wilson said: > How is this a good use of resources when they have to justify 80% of a /24 in > which they only need half of? I have 5 ISPs I work with that have 300-500 > customer and are using a /26 or smaller of IP space. They can’t have true >

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

And this is exactly what other companies are doing. The traditional way of doing a startup ISP is: 1.You get provider assigned IP space 2.You grow big enough to get your own IP space, historically from ARIN. Nowadays you have to buy it on the open market. 3.You re-adddress your network for

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

Most of the ones I know personally are doing CGN and have no real need for IP addresses. I know of Wireless ISPs with 2000 customers and only about 50 IPv4 addresses in use for nat and the occasional Public IP customer. Justin Wilson j...@mtin.net www.mtin.net www.midwest-ix.com > On Jan 4,

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

I can tell you that when we started (and there were IP's still available) we first leased from another company to get our feet when and run tests before we requested our own resources. On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 6:21 PM, William Herrin wrote: > On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 6:06 PM, Mike

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 6:06 PM, Mike Hammett wrote: > There are hundreds of ISPs with under 500 customers. More start up every > week. No need to marginalize them. > Hi Mike, No disrespect, but anyone who can't afford to spend $5000 on resources critical to their activity is

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

- Original Message - From: "valdis kletnieks" <valdis.kletni...@vt.edu> To: "Justin Wilson" <li...@mtin.net> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 4:51:20 PM Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing? On Thu, 04 J

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

ot;William Herrin" <b...@herrin.us> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 4:56:21 PM Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing? By the way, RIPE still seems to provide fresh /22s to new LIRs. Same in the ARIN region? mh Le 4 janv. 2018 à 23:50,

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

...@herrin.us> To: "Justin Wilson" <li...@mtin.net> Cc: "NANOG" <nanog@nanog.org> Sent: Thursday, January 4, 2018 4:48:40 PM Subject: Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing? On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Justin Wilson <li...@mtin.net> wrote: > I know of doz

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

By the way, RIPE still seems to provide fresh /22s to new LIRs. Same in the ARIN region? mh Le 4 janv. 2018 à 23:50, à 23:50, William Herrin a écrit: >On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Justin Wilson wrote: > >> I know of dozens, if not hundreds of small ISPs that

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

On Thu, 04 Jan 2018 17:40:27 -0500, Justin Wilson said: > I know of dozens, if not hundreds of small ISPs that can’t participate in > BGP > because they don’t have big enough blocks. What's the business model, if you have less than 120 customers? Selling value-add services on top of moving

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 5:40 PM, Justin Wilson wrote: > I know of dozens, if not hundreds of small ISPs that can’t participate in > BGP because they don’t have big enough blocks. Hi Justin, Not much of an ISP if they can't get a /24. We're talking about a one-time market

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

Yes, we do this for several clients. We route them a smaller than 24 block over a tunnel. Which bring up an interesting question. Will there be a time where the smallest block size recognized will be something smaller than a /24? /25, /26 ? Most modern routers have the horsepower to deal

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

Thanks Bill. Kinda ugly, but OK I see... Prefer v6 ;-) mh Le 4 janv. 2018 à 23:17, à 23:17, William Herrin a écrit: >On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 5:07 PM, Michael Hallgren wrote: > >> Am I missing something? What's the trigger for doing tunneling here? >> > >With "IP

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 5:07 PM, Michael Hallgren wrote: > Am I missing something? What's the trigger for doing tunneling here? > With "IP address leasing" you aren't connected to the network which holds the address registration. For leasing less than a /24, they need a plan

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

Le 2018-01-04 20:16, Job Snijders a écrit : On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 at 20:13, Filip Hruska wrote: I have stumbled upon this site [1] which seems to offer /27 IPv4 leasing. They also claim "All of our IPv4 address space can be used on any network in any location." I thought that

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

Le 2018-01-04 20:27, Harald Koch a écrit : "IPv6 available upon request. " LOL. +1 :-) mh

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 2:16 PM, Job Snijders wrote: > On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 at 20:13, Filip Hruska wrote: > > I thought that the smallest prefix size one could get routed globally is > > /24? So how does this work? > > > Probably with GRE, IPIP or OpenVPN

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

Thanks for all the responses! Seems like I was right about doubting this. Regards -- Filip Hruska Linux System Administrator Dne 1/4/18 v 20:20 Matt Harris napsal(a): They're probably using GRE or other sorts of tunnels, I'd imagine?  It would likely involve increased latency, as any

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

"IPv6 available upon request. " LOL. -- Harald

RE: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

Notice that the LOA is only checked off on /24 or larger. Luke Guillory Vice President – Technology and Innovation Tel:985.536.1212 Fax:985.536.0300 Email: lguill...@reservetele.com Reserve Telecommunications 100 RTC Dr Reserve, LA 70084

Re: IPv4 smaller than /24 leasing?

On Thu, 4 Jan 2018 at 20:13, Filip Hruska wrote: > I have stumbled upon this site [1] which seems to offer /27 IPv4 leasing. > They also claim "All of our IPv4 address space can be used on any network > in any location." > > I thought that the smallest prefix size one could get