Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

I'm interested for this project to succeed, in case it will be NixOS extension like nixsap[1], and not a fork like triton[2] or microgram[3]. Currently NixOS is very customizable: - module system - disabling modules [4] - nixpkgs overlays Because of these ways, it is possible to belong to The

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

> However, all major Linux distributions without exceptions enable > "moderate" hardening by default for very good reasons, and all of them > can run on eeePC without issues. > > If your aim is not to run NixOS on arduino, or little embedded MIPS or > RISC-V machines, it does not matter at all. If

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On 03/21/2017 08:15 PM, Bjørn Forsman wrote: > I wonder if it's possible to use "prelink". I think someone mentioned > it on the ML some years back. Sadly prelink conflicts with ASLR which is an important security feature. There is an option to statically randomize addresses but it's then as good

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Yes I tried to convince the ML that prelinking /nix/store is sort of deterministic, but could not get traction. IIRC there is a decent startup improvement. OS X does it well, there the dyld automatically does prelinking on the fly, storing the metadata elsewhere. On Tue, Mar 21, 2017, 7:36 PM

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On 03/21/2017 06:15 PM, Bjørn Forsman wrote: > I wonder if it's possible to use "prelink". I think someone mentioned > it on the ML some years back. I suspect prelink addresses a different part of overhead that isn't enlarged in nixpkgs. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On 21 March 2017 at 17:39, Adrien Devresse wrote: > NixOS, contrary to arch and the other Linux distributions, does not use > ld cache, and consequently do significantly more "stat()" stress on the > file system each time it charges an executable with dynamic libraries. I wonder

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Le 21. 03. 17 à 16:56, William Casarin a écrit : > Eelco Dolstra writes: >> On 03/19/2017 12:10 PM, Jan Malakhovski wrote: >>> For eeePC try disabling hardening. Seriously. >> Hm, I wasn't aware hardening has a significant performance impact. Do you >> have >> more

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Eelco Dolstra writes: > On 03/19/2017 12:10 PM, Jan Malakhovski wrote: >> >> For eeePC try disabling hardening. Seriously. > > Hm, I wasn't aware hardening has a significant performance impact. Do you have > more info on that? I have a feeling in my case the

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Le 21. 03. 17 à 11:52, Alexey Shmalko a écrit : > Eelco Dolstra writes: > >> Hi, >> >> On 03/19/2017 12:10 PM, Jan Malakhovski wrote: >> >>> William Casarin writes: >>> I tried to run NixOS on my eeepc, it feels a lot more sluggish than when

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Eelco Dolstra writes: > Hi, > > On 03/19/2017 12:10 PM, Jan Malakhovski wrote: > >> William Casarin writes: >> >>> I tried to run NixOS on my eeepc, it feels a lot more sluggish than when >>> I used to run arch on it. I would love to see how this

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Hi, On 03/19/2017 12:10 PM, Jan Malakhovski wrote: > William Casarin writes: > >> I tried to run NixOS on my eeepc, it feels a lot more sluggish than when >> I used to run arch on it. I would love to see how this plays out, if >> only to have >> a smaller, lightweight version

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On 17-03-19 05:55pm, Alexander V. Nikolaev wrote: > I think we can re-use pre-serialised `systemd.services` attrset, using > it for emitting plain sysvinit scripts, or runit scripts. And may be > later introduce new intermediate layer here. Since (say what you want) systemd service attributes are

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Lluís Batlle i Rossell writes: > I didn't read the long post, but based on the title it may be of your > interest what I wrote years ago: nanonixos. > > http://viric.name/cgi-bin/nanonixos/doc/trunk/doc/home.wiki > > It's very outdated. Pick nixpkgs commits from those dates to

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 06:42:37PM +0100, Lukas Epple wrote: > > - Don't PR our changes to nixos subtree (a waste of time) > > I think this is childish, or even dangerous. > +1 > Instead of wasting your time on a NixOS fork, just build an abstraction > over *any* init/daemon management system

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Hello, I didn't read the long post, but based on the title it may be of your interest what I wrote years ago: nanonixos. http://viric.name/cgi-bin/nanonixos/doc/trunk/doc/home.wiki It's very outdated. Pick nixpkgs commits from those dates to make it work. It is a cross-built nixos for the Ben

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On 19 March 2017 at 12:00, Jan Malakhovski wrote: > [...] we want smaller Linux > systems for routers, RPis and BBones. +1. Also +1 to many of the other goals you listed earlier. I'll be sad if most of the features you plan to work on does not eventually get merged to NixOS. I

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

William Casarin writes: > I tried to run NixOS on my eeepc, it feels a lot more sluggish than when > I used to run arch on it. I would love to see how this plays out, if > only to have > a smaller, lightweight version of NixOS to run on my pi's and eeepc. For eeePC try

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Tuomas Tynkkynen writes: > How is moving away from glibc going to help with (say) FreeBSD > support? Based on (admittedly quite short) googling, I couldn't It wouldn't help much. But moving away from systemd would. > find any libc that supports both Linux and FreeBSD

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 5:00 PM, Jan Malakhovski wrote: > Adrien Devresse writes: >> >> Just for the troll : Do you also plan to redo also Nix entirely in C, >> like everything else, just for fun ? > > [..] > > Meanwhile, 22Mb glibc and 19Mb systemd (disregarding

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On 19-03-2017 08:01:39, Wout Mertens wrote: > * Agreed that we should make github issues available in another > format for > posterity. Perhaps just copy the text of merged PRs into /docs? (with some > tool) I'll leave this here as a side-note: I'm working on a tool which would make this

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

My $0.02: * The bikeshedding in NixOS is indeed terrible; in nixpkgs a bit less * It is hard to abstract over systemd, it has a huge scope. Simply using runit means also adding a bunch of other services. This impacts all of NixOS but nothing in nixpkgs. * Agreed that we should make github

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

2017-03-18 18:46 GMT+02:00 Jan Malakhovski : > Mayeu writes: > >> I would love to see that in upstream, independence from systemd will open >> the door to have some kind of NixBSD and other fun stuff like that. (No >> longer than 3 days ago there was a discussion

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Lukas Epple writes: > On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:20:00AM +, Jan Malakhovski wrote: >> - Don't PR our changes to nixos subtree (a waste of time) > > I think this is childish, or even dangerous. > > What I see in this, is the following: A lot of “we know things better > and

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Adrien Devresse writes: >> Note that NixOS FreeBSD/NetBSD is just SLNOS with a different kernel, >> because we are gonna to be free from glibc and GNU tools. > > I am sorry in advance for this comment. > > But I can only get amused of seeing some GNU, Linux and systemD-haters >

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Lukas Epple writes: > On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:20:00AM +, Jan Malakhovski wrote: > Instead of wasting your time on a NixOS fork, just build an abstraction > over *any* init/daemon management system (so atm systemd, openrc, runit, > sinit, …) and get it into NixOS

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Note that NixOS FreeBSD/NetBSD is just SLNOS with a different kernel, because we are gonna to be free from glibc and GNU tools. I am sorry in advance for this comment. But I can only get amused of seeing some GNU, Linux and systemD-haters spitting on C++ and software complexity on their main

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:20:00AM +, Jan Malakhovski wrote: > - Don't PR our changes to nixos subtree (a waste of time) I think this is childish, or even dangerous. What I see in this, is the following: A lot of “we know things better and nobody can appreciate or realize that”. You got to

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Mayeu writes: > I would love to see that in upstream, independence from systemd will open the > door to have some kind of NixBSD and other fun stuff like that. (No longer > than 3 days ago there was a discussion for GSOC to have a project to make > NixOS + freebsd). Note that

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 12:56:14PM +0100, Matthias Beyer wrote: > Never thought about what you wrote there. Thanks for the new > perspective! > > -- > Mit freundlichen Grüßen, > Kind regards, > Matthias Beyer > > Consider switching to free software. > It adds value to your life. >

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On 18-03-2017 22:25:18, Jookia wrote: > On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:32:18AM +0100, Matthias Beyer wrote: > > But then you have to think about why these people are doing it. > > Clearly because they think they can do something better - which is > > fine IMO. > > > > But if a fork is necessary

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Jookia <166...@gmail.com> writes: > This probably won't be of practical use to me since I have other issues with > NixOS, but I'd like to show my support for this: Having enough interest to get > forked is certainly a good thing. Who knows, maybe NixOS will join the ranks > of > other distros

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:32:18AM +0100, Matthias Beyer wrote: > But then you have to think about why these people are doing it. > Clearly because they think they can do something better - which is > fine IMO. > > But if a fork is necessary this also means their voices were not heard > when

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Hi. Hope this clarifies our view of Sucklessness. # Mission Statement - We agree on SLNOS Wishlist by consensus - We agree to (eventually) merge any patchset that implements an item from SLNOS Wishlist - We agree to (eventually) merge any patchset that reduces boilerplate (and docstrings

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

> (4) implement > > > { > # use OpenRC instead of systemd > system.initd = "openrc"; > } > I would love to see that in upstream, independence from systemd will open the door to have some kind of NixBSD and other fun stuff like that. (No longer than 3 days ago there was a

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On 18-03-2017 21:23:36, Jookia wrote: > On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:10:51AM +0100, Matthias Beyer wrote: > > On 18-03-2017 11:39:15, Jookia wrote: > > > Having enough interest to get forked is certainly a good thing. Who > > > knows, maybe NixOS will join the ranks of other distros with > > >

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On Sat, Mar 18, 2017 at 11:10:51AM +0100, Matthias Beyer wrote: > On 18-03-2017 11:39:15, Jookia wrote: > > Having enough interest to get forked is certainly a good thing. Who > > knows, maybe NixOS will join the ranks of other distros with > > spin-offs. > > Oh please no! > > Whether it is a

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On 18-03-2017 11:39:15, Jookia wrote: > Having enough interest to get forked is certainly a good thing. Who > knows, maybe NixOS will join the ranks of other distros with > spin-offs. Oh please no! Whether it is a good thing what is proposed here or not - we really should try to hear all

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On 2017-03-17 20:15, Jan Malakhovski wrote: > Stefan Huchler writes: > >>> * Our common goal is to have fun (see below) and to get a NixOS system >>> that can run using only suckless tools [1]. >> >> which is a subject oppinion, which tools does suck and which not. >>

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Profpatsch writes: > On 17-03-17 02:00pm, Jan Malakhovski wrote: >> >> Brothers and Sisters! >> >> * Our common goal is to have fun (see below) and to get a NixOS system >> that can run using only suckless tools [1]. > > I, for one, applaud our new anonymous suckless

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Jan Malakhovski (The ephemeral self-proclaimed Pope of SLNOS) writes: > * Our common goal is to have fun (see below) and to get a NixOS system > that can run using only suckless tools [1]. which is a subject oppinion, which tools does suck and which not. > * Some of us want

Re: [Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

On 17-03-17 02:00pm, Jan Malakhovski wrote: > > Brothers and Sisters! > > * Our common goal is to have fun (see below) and to get a NixOS system > that can run using only suckless tools [1]. I, for one, applaud our new anonymous suckless leaders! On an offhand note, be advised that

[Nix-dev] The Church of Suckless NixOS is looking for followers

Brothers and Sisters! I think I reached the point of no-return w.r.t. not being able to tolerate systemd on my machines any longer after systemd devs dropped utmp. I don't want to replace finely matured portable UNIX utils produced by The Old Gods for the sake of making a bunch of crazy people