tag sharing [was: Re: release-candidate/0.6 redux]

[Jesse Rosenthal]

On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 10:46:57 -0700, Jameson Graef Rollins  wrote:
> Did you guys try to address the issue of tag removal at all?  I've been
> trying to decide if this is something we need to worry about or not.
> For instance, if cworth pushed a tag ".needs-review", you would probably
> want to have that tag removed if cworth removed it.  I guess
> alternatively he could just push the tag ".reviewed" to nullify the
> meaning of the previous one.  I'm not sure that would work in all cases,
> though.

Yes, if he deletes the tag "public.needs-review" in his notmuch, and
then pushes it, it will delete the tag "cworth.needs-review" from yours.

A couple points about this:

1. If you added your own "needs-review" tag to things that have a
"cworth.needs-review" tag, that wouldn't be deleted. In other words,
cworth's actions will only affect that namespace. Now, if you delete it,
and push it, and Carl pulls back from you (meaning he trusts you), then
it would be deleted on his. When he pushes next, it will be deleted on
everyone who pulls from him.

I'm sure there are resolution paradoxes here. It only had a ten-minute
trial run one day on IRC with me and someone else.

2. The history is available. If you run `nm-remote history msg-id`, it
will show you its history of being added and deleted. I think it will
show by whom it was added or deleted as well, but I don't quite remember
(I hacked this up over a year ago).

tag sharing [was: Re: release-candidate/0.6 redux]

[Jameson Graef Rollins]

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 13:20:00 -0400, Jesse Rosenthal  
wrote:
> After a conversation with David last year about bug-tracking, I worked
> up a rough python-based prototype of this. It worked in terms of
> namespaces, so Carl could associate the namespace "public" with a list
> of tags he publishes to a http-accessable location. And you could
> associate the namespace "cworth" with those same tags.

This sounds very cool, Jesse.  Very git-like.  I like it.

> You type `whatevercommand pull cworth` and the tags come down from that
> URL as "cworth.*".
> 
> So what he has as "public.to-push" comes down to your notmuch as
> "cworth.to-push".

Did you guys try to address the issue of tag removal at all?  I've been
trying to decide if this is something we need to worry about or not.
For instance, if cworth pushed a tag ".needs-review", you would probably
want to have that tag removed if cworth removed it.  I guess
alternatively he could just push the tag ".reviewed" to nullify the
meaning of the previous one.  I'm not sure that would work in all cases,
though.

jamie.
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Re: tag sharing [was: Re: release-candidate/0.6 redux]

[Jameson Graef Rollins]

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 13:20:00 -0400, Jesse Rosenthal jrosent...@jhu.edu wrote:
 After a conversation with David last year about bug-tracking, I worked
 up a rough python-based prototype of this. It worked in terms of
 namespaces, so Carl could associate the namespace public with a list
 of tags he publishes to a http-accessable location. And you could
 associate the namespace cworth with those same tags.

This sounds very cool, Jesse.  Very git-like.  I like it.

 You type `whatevercommand pull cworth` and the tags come down from that
 URL as cworth.*.
 
 So what he has as public.to-push comes down to your notmuch as
 cworth.to-push.

Did you guys try to address the issue of tag removal at all?  I've been
trying to decide if this is something we need to worry about or not.
For instance, if cworth pushed a tag .needs-review, you would probably
want to have that tag removed if cworth removed it.  I guess
alternatively he could just push the tag .reviewed to nullify the
meaning of the previous one.  I'm not sure that would work in all cases,
though.

jamie.


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Re: tag sharing [was: Re: release-candidate/0.6 redux]

[Jesse Rosenthal]

On Wed, 08 Jun 2011 10:46:57 -0700, Jameson Graef Rollins 
jroll...@finestructure.net wrote:
 Did you guys try to address the issue of tag removal at all?  I've been
 trying to decide if this is something we need to worry about or not.
 For instance, if cworth pushed a tag .needs-review, you would probably
 want to have that tag removed if cworth removed it.  I guess
 alternatively he could just push the tag .reviewed to nullify the
 meaning of the previous one.  I'm not sure that would work in all cases,
 though.

Yes, if he deletes the tag public.needs-review in his notmuch, and
then pushes it, it will delete the tag cworth.needs-review from yours.

A couple points about this:

1. If you added your own needs-review tag to things that have a
cworth.needs-review tag, that wouldn't be deleted. In other words,
cworth's actions will only affect that namespace. Now, if you delete it,
and push it, and Carl pulls back from you (meaning he trusts you), then
it would be deleted on his. When he pushes next, it will be deleted on
everyone who pulls from him.

I'm sure there are resolution paradoxes here. It only had a ten-minute
trial run one day on IRC with me and someone else.

2. The history is available. If you run `nm-remote history msg-id`, it
will show you its history of being added and deleted. I think it will
show by whom it was added or deleted as well, but I don't quite remember
(I hacked this up over a year ago).

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tag sharing [was: Re: release-candidate/0.6 redux]

[Jesse Rosenthal]

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 09:28:13 -0700, Jameson Graef Rollins  wrote:
> I've been thinking about this more and it really seems we need a way to
> just share tags.  What if we had a way to export all the tags for a set
> of messages as a notmuch dump file, that could just be piped into
> notmuch to modify tags?  This would be a great way for lots of people to
> keep tags synced on a set of messages.

After a conversation with David last year about bug-tracking, I worked
up a rough python-based prototype of this. It worked in terms of
namespaces, so Carl could associate the namespace "public" with a list
of tags he publishes to a http-accessable location. And you could
associate the namespace "cworth" with those same tags.

He types `whatevercommand push public` and all tags "public.*" go to an
config-associated URL.

You type `whatevercommand pull cworth` and the tags come down from that
URL as "cworth.*".

So what he has as "public.to-push" comes down to your notmuch as
"cworth.to-push".

It's available here:

http://commonmeasure.org/~jkr/git/nm-remote.git

See these emails for more (but note that the repo url has changed to the
above).

id:"m1k4rkkchy.fsf at watt.gilman.jhu.edu"
id:"m1hbmokbxj.fsf at watt.gilman.jhu.edu"

There were some details and inherent ambiguities about conflict
resolution, and the above emails explain how I dealt with them. 

Note also that it uses python's configparser, which will overwrite your
config -- which means it'll get rid of your comments. So if you use any
of the config-writing commands, make sure you back up your config first.

Best,
Jesse

tag sharing [was: Re: release-candidate/0.6 redux]

[Jameson Graef Rollins]

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 05:17:27 -0700, Carl Worth  wrote:
> Hopefully, someone will provide me with a good way to publish my queue
> soon, ("notmuch search --output=html" ?), and then communication like
> this will be a bit easier. ;-)

I've been thinking about this more and it really seems we need a way to
just share tags.  What if we had a way to export all the tags for a set
of messages as a notmuch dump file, that could just be piped into
notmuch to modify tags?  This would be a great way for lots of people to
keep tags synced on a set of messages.

The main difficulty (seems to me) would be the sharing of -tags.  You
wouldn't want the absence of a tag on a message in the tag file to mean
that the tag should be removed.  So we would need to represent both
+tags and -tags in the dump file [0].

It seems a little crazy, but would it be possible to store -tags in the
database somehow?

jamie.

[0] This would actually help with tags applied when the message is
indexed as well, like "signed" and "encrypted", since it would allow for
tagging messages that were indexed before the "signed"/"encrypted"
tagging was a feature.
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tag sharing [was: Re: release-candidate/0.6 redux]

[Jameson Graef Rollins]

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 05:17:27 -0700, Carl Worth cwo...@cworth.org wrote:
 Hopefully, someone will provide me with a good way to publish my queue
 soon, (notmuch search --output=html ?), and then communication like
 this will be a bit easier. ;-)

I've been thinking about this more and it really seems we need a way to
just share tags.  What if we had a way to export all the tags for a set
of messages as a notmuch dump file, that could just be piped into
notmuch to modify tags?  This would be a great way for lots of people to
keep tags synced on a set of messages.

The main difficulty (seems to me) would be the sharing of -tags.  You
wouldn't want the absence of a tag on a message in the tag file to mean
that the tag should be removed.  So we would need to represent both
+tags and -tags in the dump file [0].

It seems a little crazy, but would it be possible to store -tags in the
database somehow?

jamie.

[0] This would actually help with tags applied when the message is
indexed as well, like signed and encrypted, since it would allow for
tagging messages that were indexed before the signed/encrypted
tagging was a feature.


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Re: tag sharing [was: Re: release-candidate/0.6 redux]

[Jesse Rosenthal]

On Mon, 06 Jun 2011 09:28:13 -0700, Jameson Graef Rollins 
jroll...@finestructure.net wrote:
 I've been thinking about this more and it really seems we need a way to
 just share tags.  What if we had a way to export all the tags for a set
 of messages as a notmuch dump file, that could just be piped into
 notmuch to modify tags?  This would be a great way for lots of people to
 keep tags synced on a set of messages.

After a conversation with David last year about bug-tracking, I worked
up a rough python-based prototype of this. It worked in terms of
namespaces, so Carl could associate the namespace public with a list
of tags he publishes to a http-accessable location. And you could
associate the namespace cworth with those same tags.

He types `whatevercommand push public` and all tags public.* go to an
config-associated URL.

You type `whatevercommand pull cworth` and the tags come down from that
URL as cworth.*.

So what he has as public.to-push comes down to your notmuch as
cworth.to-push.

It's available here:

http://commonmeasure.org/~jkr/git/nm-remote.git

See these emails for more (but note that the repo url has changed to the
above).

id:m1k4rkkchy@watt.gilman.jhu.edu
id:m1hbmokbxj@watt.gilman.jhu.edu

There were some details and inherent ambiguities about conflict
resolution, and the above emails explain how I dealt with them. 

Note also that it uses python's configparser, which will overwrite your
config -- which means it'll get rid of your comments. So if you use any
of the config-writing commands, make sure you back up your config first.

Best,
Jesse
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