[openssl/general-policies] 8ff792: add vote

2022-09-14 Thread Tim Hudson
Branch: refs/heads/master Home: https://github.com/openssl/general-policies Commit: 8ff792500fea00294cf54f2adc203bc8c0cea3b1 https://github.com/openssl/general-policies/commit/8ff792500fea00294cf54f2adc203bc8c0cea3b1 Author: Tim Hudson Date: 2022-09-14 (Wed, 14 Sep 2022

Re: Re-arrange the library structure - Re: CMP is a subproject?

2022-07-08 Thread Tim Hudson
nctionality it would be > useful to have it as a separate shared library so loading libcrypto is > less expensive. Still I think this is a 4.0 project. > > Tomas > > On Fri, 2022-07-08 at 09:00 +0200, David von Oheimb wrote: > > On 07.07.22 23:02, Tim Hudson wrote: > >

Re: CMP is a subproject?

2022-07-07 Thread Tim Hudson
I do not think this makes sense at this stage at all. One of the key elements people are looking for when contributing code is the distribution vector of getting including in default OS distributions and standard builds. This is something we could look at tackling in a future major release - but e

Re: OTC VOTE: Accept Policy change process proposal

2021-11-01 Thread Tim Hudson
+1 Tim. On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 8:23 PM Tomas Mraz wrote: > topic: Accept openssl/technical-policies PR#1 - the policy change > process proposal as of commit 3bccdf6. This will become an official OTC > policy. > > comment: This will implement the formal policy change process so we can > introdu

Re: OTC VOTE: Accept PR#16725

2021-10-20 Thread Tim Hudson
On the basis of further discussion I'm changing my vote to 0 which enables this to pass now. Tim. On Wed, Oct 20, 2021 at 5:18 PM Matt Caswell wrote: > > > On 19/10/2021 19:31, Nicola Tuveri wrote: > > I believe Matt will find the time at some point to post the minutes > > from today's meeting

Re: OTC quick votes [WAS: RE: OTC vote PR #16171: config_diagnostic]

2021-08-29 Thread Tim Hudson
PR you can argue it's not the > comments but the code, but what happens in case the PR is changed > before I can vote? We have also voted on issue, were several > things were mentioned in the issue, some things I agree we should > do, others I don't. > > > Kurt >

Re: OTC quick votes [WAS: RE: OTC vote PR #16171: config_diagnostic]

2021-08-03 Thread Tim Hudson
8:07 AM Kurt Roeckx wrote: > On Wed, Aug 04, 2021 at 07:21:57AM +1000, Tim Hudson wrote: > > > > This isn't about the OTC meeting itself - this is about the details of > the > > topic actually being captured within the PR. > > You need to actually look at the

Re: OTC quick votes [WAS: RE: OTC vote PR #16171: config_diagnostic]

2021-08-03 Thread Tim Hudson
On Wed, Aug 4, 2021 at 5:26 AM Dr. Matthias St. Pierre < matthias.st.pie...@ncp-e.com> wrote: > > I'm starting to vote -1 on anything has a vote text that looks like > that, so -1. > > I perfectly understand Kurt's dislike of this kind of votes. The text is > not very informative for OTC members w

Re: OTC VOTE: Accept PR 16128

2021-07-22 Thread Tim Hudson
+1 as this is consistent with previous OTC post-beta decisions to accept such changes (subject to OTC vote). Tim. On Thu, Jul 22, 2021 at 10:51 PM Matt Caswell wrote: > topic: Accept PR 16128 in 3.0 subject to our normal review process > Proposed by Matt Caswell > Public: yes > opened: 2021-07

Re: OTC VOTE: Reject PR#14759

2021-04-20 Thread Tim Hudson
On the call the votes were very clear to accept the PR (not reject it). So I'm again rejecting the request to reject the PR - it would be better to express such votes in positive terms. -1 Tim. On Wed, Apr 21, 2021 at 9:06 AM Dr Paul Dale wrote: > -0 > > Pauli > > On 20/4/21 8:23 pm, Nicola

Re: [OTC VOTE PROPOSAL] Don't merge PR#14759 (blinding=yes and similar properties)

2021-04-08 Thread Tim Hudson
Nicola, you are (in my view) conflating multiple items. For the provider and property design approach it is rather simple. - Algorithm implementations can vary. - Selection between algorithm implementations when multiple providers are available is performed by properties Algorithm implementations

Re: OTC Vote: Remove the RSA_SSLV23_PADDING and related functions completely

2021-02-23 Thread Tim Hudson
0 Tim. On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 8:21 PM Tomas Mraz wrote: > topic: The RSA_SSLV23_PADDING and related functions should be > completely removed from OpenSSL 3.0 code. > > comment: The padding mode and the related functions (which are already > deprecated in the current master branch) is useless o

Re: OSSL_PARAM behaviour for unknown keys

2020-12-15 Thread Tim Hudson
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 10:24 PM Kurt Roeckx wrote: > If an applications wants to switch from one to the other > algorithm, it should be as easy as possible. But the application > might need to change, and might need to be aware which parameters > are needed. A provider may not need any of thos

Re: OSSL_PARAM behaviour for unknown keys

2020-12-14 Thread Tim Hudson
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 5:46 PM Richard Levitte wrote: > Of course, checking the gettable and settable tables beforehand works > as well. They were originally never meant to be mandatory, but I > guess we're moving that way... > The only one who knows whether or not a given parameter is critica

Re: OTC VOTE: Keeping API compatibility with missing public key

2020-12-04 Thread Tim Hudson
+1 Note I support also changing all key types to be able to operate without the public component (where that is possible) which goes beyond what this vote covers (as previously noted). Having a documented conceptual model that is at odds with the code isn't a good thing and in particular this choi

Re: OTC VOTE: Fixing missing failure exit status is a bug fix

2020-11-30 Thread Tim Hudson
+1 On Mon, 30 Nov 2020, 10:03 pm Nicola Tuveri, wrote: > Vote background > --- > > This follows up on a [previous proposal] that was abandoned in favor of > an OMC vote on the behavior change introduced in [PR#13359]. > Within today's OTC meeting this was further discussed with the a

Re: OTC VOTE: EVP_PKEY private/public key components

2020-11-09 Thread Tim Hudson
-1 As I said in the OTC meeting, I agree we should change the conceptual model to not require a private key to be a super-set of a public key; however I do not think we should introduce key-type specific behaviour in this area - i.e. if it makes sense to change the model then it should apply equal

Additional things for deprecation

2020-10-13 Thread Tim Hudson
In a 3.0 context, EVP_PKEY_ASN1_METHOD and all the associated functions should be marked deprecated in my view. Tim.

Re: OTC VOTE: The PR #11359 (Allow to continue with further checks on UNABLE_TO_VERIFY_LEAF_SIGNATURE) is acceptable for 1.1.1 branch

2020-10-12 Thread Tim Hudson
-1 I don't see this as a bug fix. Tim On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 10:02 PM Tomas Mraz wrote: > topic: The PR #11359 (Allow to continue with further checks on > UNABLE_TO_VERIFY_LEAF_SIGNATURE) is acceptable for 1.1.1 branch > As the change is borderline on bug fix/behaviour change OTC needs > to

Re: VOTE: Weekly OTC meetings until 3.0 beta1 is released

2020-10-09 Thread Tim Hudson
+1 Tim On Fri, 9 Oct 2020, 10:01 pm Nicola Tuveri, wrote: > topic: Hold online weekly OTC meetings starting on Tuesday 2020-10-13 >and until 3.0 beta1 is released, in lieu of the weekly "developer >meetings". > Proposed by Nicola Tuveri > Public: yes > opened: 2020-10-09 > close

Re: VOTE: Technical Items still to be done

2020-10-08 Thread Tim Hudson
+1 Tim. On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 12:47 AM Matt Caswell wrote: > topic: The following items are required prerequisites for the first beta > release: > 1) EVP is the recommended API, it must be feature-complete compared with > the functionality available using lower-level APIs. >- Anythin

Re: VOTE: Accept the Fully Pluggable TLSv1.3 KEM functionality

2020-10-08 Thread Tim Hudson
+1 Tim On Fri, Oct 9, 2020 at 12:27 AM Matt Caswell wrote: > topic: We should accept the Fully Pluggable TLSv1.3 KEM functionality as > shown in PR #13018 into the 3.0 release > Proposed by Matt Caswell > Public: yes > opened: 2020-10-08 > closed: 2020-mm-dd > accepted: yes/no (for: X, again

Re: stable branch release cadence

2020-09-15 Thread Tim Hudson
Thanks Matt - cut-n-paste fumble on my part from the previous vote summary. The tally should always equal the number of OMC members. For: 6, against: 0, abstained 0, not voted: 1 Tim. On Wed, Sep 16, 2020 at 8:11 AM Matt Caswell wrote: > > > On 15/09/2020 23:10, Tim Hudson wrote: &g

stable branch release cadence

2020-09-15 Thread Tim Hudson
The OMC voted to: *Release stable branch on the second last Tuesday of the last month in each quarter as a regular cadence.* The vote passed. For: 6, against: 9, abstained 0, not voted: 1 Thanks, Tim.

Re: Reordering new API's that have a libctx, propq

2020-09-14 Thread Tim Hudson
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 9:52 PM Matt Caswell wrote: > > And that is the point - this is not how the existing CTX functions work > > (ignoring the OPENSSL_CTX stuff). > > Do you have some concrete examples of existing functions that don't work > this way? > SSL_new() BIO_new_ssl() BIO_new_ssl_con

Re: Reordering new API's that have a libctx, propq

2020-09-14 Thread Tim Hudson
On Mon, Sep 14, 2020 at 9:19 PM Matt Caswell wrote: > I must be misunderstanding your point because I don't follow your logic > at all. > > So this is the correct form according to my proposed policy: > > TYPE *TYPE_make_from_ctx(char *name,TYPE_CTX *ctx) > And that is the point - this is not ho

Re: Reordering new API's that have a libctx, propq

2020-09-14 Thread Tim Hudson
Any proposal needs to deal with the constructors consistently - whether they come from an OPENSSL_CTX or they come from an existing TYPE_CTX. That is absent in your PR. Basically this leads to the ability to provide inconsistent argument order in functions. TYPE *TYPE_make_from_ctx(TYPE_CTX *ctx,

Re: Reordering new API's that have a libctx, propq

2020-09-05 Thread Tim Hudson
On Sun, Sep 6, 2020 at 6:55 AM Richard Levitte wrote: > I'd rank the algorithm name as the most important, it really can't do > anything of value without it. > It also cannot do anything without knowing which libctx to use. Look at the implementation. Without the libctx there is no "from-where"

Re: Reordering new API's that have a libctx, propq

2020-09-05 Thread Tim Hudson
On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 8:45 PM Nicola Tuveri wrote: > Or is your point that we are writing in C, all the arguments are > positional, none is ever really optional, there is no difference between > passing a `(void*) NULL` or a valid `(TYPE*) ptr` as the value of a `TYPE > *` argument, so "importan

Re: Reordering new API's that have a libctx, propq

2020-09-05 Thread Tim Hudson
On Sat, Sep 5, 2020 at 6:38 PM Nicola Tuveri wrote: > In most (if not all) cases in our functions, both libctx and propquery are > optional arguments, as we have global defaults for them based on the loaded > config file. > As such, explicitly passing non-NULL libctx and propquery, is likely to b

Re: Reordering new API's that have a libctx, propq

2020-09-05 Thread Tim Hudson
I place the OTC hold because I don't believe we should be making parameter reordering decisions without actually having documented what approach we want to take so there is clear guidance. This was the position I expressed in the last face to face OTC meeting - that we need to write such things dow

Re: API renaming

2020-07-23 Thread Tim Hudson
Placing everything under EVP is reasonable in my view. It is just a prefix and it really has no meaning these days as it became nothing more than a common prefix to use. I don't see any significant benefit in renaming at this point - even for RAND. Tim. On Fri, 24 Jul 2020, 1:56 am Matt Caswell,

Vote results for PR#12089

2020-07-03 Thread Tim Hudson
topic: Change some words by accepting PR#12089 4 against, 3 for, no absensions The vote failed, the PR will now be closed. Thanks, Tim.

Re: Backports to 1.1.1 and what is allowed

2020-06-19 Thread Tim Hudson
I suggest everyone takes a read through https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long-term_support as to what LTS is actually meant to be focused on. What you (Ben and Matt) are both describing is not LTS but STS ... these are different concepts. For LTS the focus is *stability *and *reduced risk of disrupt

Re: Backports to 1.1.1 and what is allowed

2020-06-19 Thread Tim Hudson
On Sat, 20 Jun 2020, 8:14 am Benjamin Kaduk, wrote: > On Sat, Jun 20, 2020 at 08:11:16AM +1000, Tim Hudson wrote: > > The general concept is to only fix serious bugs in stable releases. > > Increasing performance is not fixing a bug - it is a feature. > > Is remediating a si

Re: Backports to 1.1.1 and what is allowed

2020-06-19 Thread Tim Hudson
The general concept is to only fix serious bugs in stable releases. Increasing performance is not fixing a bug - it is a feature. Swapping out one implementation of algorithm for another is a significant change and isn't something that should go into an LTS in my view. It would be less of an issu

Re: Naming conventions

2020-06-18 Thread Tim Hudson
We have a convention that we mostly follow. Adding new stuff with variations in the convention offers no benefit without also adjusting the rest of the API. Inconsistencies really do not assist any developer. Where APIs have been added that don't follow the conventions they should be changed. It

Re: Reducing the security bits for MD5 and SHA1 in TLS

2020-06-17 Thread Tim Hudson
Given that this change impacts interoperability in a major way it should be a policy vote of the OMC IMHO. Tim. On Thu, 18 Jun 2020, 5:57 am Kurt Roeckx, wrote: > On Wed, May 27, 2020 at 12:14:13PM +0100, Matt Caswell wrote: > > PR 10787 proposed to reduce the number of security bits for MD5 a

Re: Cherry-pick proposal

2020-04-29 Thread Tim Hudson
Any change to the review gate check we have in place now that lowers it will certainly not get my support. If anything, that check before code gets approved should be raised, not lowered. Tim. On Thu, 30 Apr 2020, 1:24 am Salz, Rich, wrote: > I suspect that the primary motivation for this prop

Re: 1.1.1f

2020-03-26 Thread Tim Hudson
We don't guarantee constant time. Tim. On Fri, 27 Mar 2020, 5:41 am Bernd Edlinger, wrote: > So I disagree, it is a bug when it is not constant time. > > > On 3/26/20 8:26 PM, Tim Hudson wrote: > > +1 for a release - and soon - and without bundling any more changes

Re: 1.1.1f

2020-03-26 Thread Tim Hudson
+1 for a release - and soon - and without bundling any more changes. The circumstances justify getting this fix out. But I also think we need to keep improvements that aren't bug fixes out of stable branches. Tim. On Fri, 27 Mar 2020, 3:12 am Matt Caswell, wrote: > On 26/03/2020 15:14, Short, T

Re: Check NULL pointers or not...

2019-11-29 Thread Tim Hudson
On Fri, Nov 29, 2019 at 7:08 PM Tomas Mraz wrote: > The "always check for NULL pointers" approach does not avoid > catastrophical errors in applications. I didn't say it avoided all errors (nor did anyone else on the thread that I've read) - but it does avoid a whole class of errors. And for t

Re: Check NULL pointers or not...

2019-11-29 Thread Tim Hudson
The way I view the issue is to look at what happens when things go wrong - what is the impact - and evaluate the difference in behaviour between the approaches. You have to start from the premise that (in general) software is not tested for all possible usage models - i.e. test coverage isn't at 10

Re: Commit access to openssl/tools and openssl/web

2019-10-04 Thread Tim Hudson
FYI - I have reviewed and added my approval. No need to back out anything. Tim. On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 5:50 PM Dr Paul Dale wrote: > I believed that it required two OMC approvals but was pointed to an > earlier instance where only one was present and I flew with it without > checking further. >

Re: Reorganization of the header files (GitHub #9333)

2019-09-27 Thread Tim Hudson
Merge early is pretty much my default position ... and that applies to this context in my view. Tim. On Sat, 28 Sep. 2019, 7:44 am Dr. Matthias St. Pierre, < matthias.st.pie...@ncp-e.com> wrote: > Hi, > > some of you might have loosely followed pull request #9333 (see [1]), > where I am reorgani

Re: Do we really want to have the legacy provider as opt-in only?

2019-07-17 Thread Tim Hudson
My view point (which has been stated elsewhere) is that OpenSSL-3.0 is about internal restructuring to allow for the various things noted in the design documents. It is not about changing the feature set (in a feature reduction sense). In future releases we will make the mixture of providers avail

Re: punycode licensing

2019-07-10 Thread Tim Hudson
On Thu, Jul 11, 2019 at 12:37 AM Dmitry Belyavsky wrote: > Dear Tim, > > Formally I am a contributor with a signed CLA. > I took a code definitely permitting any usage without any feedback, > slightly modified it (at least by openssl-format-source and splitting > between header and source), and s

Re: punycode licensing

2019-07-10 Thread Tim Hudson
Previous assertions that if the license was compatible that we don't need a CLA in order to accept a contribution were incorrect. You are now questioning the entire purpose of contributor agreements and effectively arguing they are superfluous and that our policy should be different. You are (of c

Re: punycode licensing

2019-07-09 Thread Tim Hudson
On Wed, Jul 10, 2019 at 1:58 AM Salz, Rich wrote: > Thank you for the update. This brings to mind a few additional questions: > > 1. Does other code which is copyright/licensed under the Apache 2 license also require CLAs? See points 1-3 of previous email. CLAs are required for anything non-trivia

Re: punycode licensing

2019-07-09 Thread Tim Hudson
on the license terms of a contribution Thanks, Tim. On Fri, Jun 21, 2019 at 4:24 PM Tim Hudson wrote: > Unfortunately, the issue isn't the compatibility of the license - they do > indeed look relatively compatible to me - and the discussion on this thread > has so far been abou

Re: punycode licensing

2019-06-22 Thread Tim Hudson
Unfortunately, the issue isn't the compatibility of the license - they do indeed look relatively compatible to me - and the discussion on this thread has so far been about that. However the contributor license agreement requires that the copyright owner grants such permission - it is the fundamenta

Re: Removing function names from errors (PR 9058)

2019-06-13 Thread Tim Hudson
On Thu, Jun 13, 2019 at 6:40 PM Salz, Rich wrote: > The proper way to handle this, in my experience, is *DO NOT REUSE ERROR > CODES.* No. This is a path to a rather unacceptable outcome. Taking your example and running forward with it, having an out-of-memory separate error code for every possi

Re: proposed change to committers policy

2019-05-24 Thread Tim Hudson
On Fri, May 24, 2019 at 7:34 PM Matt Caswell wrote: > On 24/05/2019 10:28, SHANE LONTIS wrote: > > It doesn’t stop us both reviewing a PR. That doesn’t mean we both need > to approve. > > Right...but in Matthias's version if you raise a PR, and then Pauli > approves it, > then you only then need

proposed change to committers policy

2019-05-24 Thread Tim Hudson
As part of various discussions, I've drafted a proposed (not yet put to a formal vote) change to the committers policy to address the perception of a potential conflict-of-interest situation. I don't believe that we have actually encountered a conflict of interest in our current policy, but avoidin

Re: No two reviewers from same company

2019-05-23 Thread Tim Hudson
We have discussed this at numerous OMC meetings in terms of how to managed potential *perceived *conflicts of interest that might arise if people outside of the fellows come from the same company and hence can effectively turn the OMC review control mechanism into a single control rather than a dua

Re: Thoughts on OSSL_ALGORITHM

2019-03-22 Thread Tim Hudson
"handle" is the wrong name for this - if you want to have private const data then do that rather than something which might be abused for instance specific information. It could just be an int even or a short. It doesn't have to be a pointer. That would reduce the likely of it being used to hold n

function and typedef naming thoughts

2019-03-05 Thread Tim Hudson
Looking at PR#8287 I think we need to get some naming schemes written down and documented and followed consistently. The naming used in this PR seems to be somewhat inconsistent. For me, I think the naming convention most often used is return_type SOMETHING_whatever(SOMETHING *,...) as a general

Fwd: openssl-announce post from hong...@gmail.com requires approval

2019-02-26 Thread Tim Hudson
Add a -r to your diff command so you recursively compare ... then you will see the actual code changes. Without the -r you are only comparing files in the top-level directory of each tree. diff *-r* -dup openssl-1.0.2q openssl-1.0.2r Tim. -- Forwarded message -- From: Hong Cho T

Re: Thoughts about library contexts

2019-02-18 Thread Tim Hudson
On Mon, Feb 18, 2019 at 8:36 PM Matt Caswell wrote: > > > On 18/02/2019 10:28, Tim Hudson wrote: > > It should remain completely opaque. > > As a general rule, I've never seen a context where someone regretted > making a > > structure opaque over time, but th

Re: Thoughts about library contexts

2019-02-18 Thread Tim Hudson
It should remain completely opaque. As a general rule, I've never seen a context where someone regretted making a structure opaque over time, but the converse is not true. This is opaque and should remain opaque. We need the flexibility to adjust the implementation at will over time. For anything

[openssl-project] inline functions

2019-01-27 Thread Tim Hudson
>From https://github.com/openssl/openssl/pull/7721 Tim - I think inline functions in public header files simply shouldn't be present. Matt - I agree Richard - I'm ambivalent... in the case of stack and lhash, the generated functions we made static inline expressly to get better C type safety, and

Re: [openssl-project] [TLS] Yet more TLS 1.3 deployment updates

2019-01-24 Thread Tim Hudson
On Thu, Jan 24, 2019 at 9:45 PM Matt Caswell wrote: > > This notion of "handshake" is not supported by RFC 8446 uses the terms > "the > > handshake", "a handshake", and "post-handshake". "Post-handshake", in > > particular, implies KeyUpdate are after the handshake, not part of it. > > I just don

Re: [openssl-project] To deprecate OpenSSL_version() or not

2018-12-05 Thread Tim Hudson
The function has been there for a long time (since then beginning) and it is all about version related information - so both names aren't exactly clearly descriptive. OpenSSL_version_information() would be a better name. It would also argue that the "version" program should be renamed "info" as t

Re: [openssl-project] Minimum C version

2018-10-07 Thread Tim Hudson
I don't see a *substantial benefit* from going to C99 and I've worked on numerous embedded platforms where it is highly unlikely that C99 support will ever be available. Kurt - do you have a specific list of features you think would be beneficial - or is it just a general sense to move forward? W

Re: [openssl-project] Release strategy updates & other policies

2018-09-28 Thread Tim Hudson
On Fri, Sep 28, 2018 at 4:55 PM Matt Caswell wrote: > Either we go with semver and totally commit to it - or we stick with what > we've already got. No > half-way, "well we're kind of doing semver, but not really". > +1 I see no point in changing what we are doing *without* getting the benefit

Re: [openssl-project] Release strategy updates & other policies

2018-09-25 Thread Tim Hudson
On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 11:02 PM Matt Caswell wrote: > You're right on this one. I misread the diff. > Not a problem - you are doing the look-at-what-we-did and how it would be impacted - and that is certainly what we should be doing - working through what impact this would have had. Semantic ve

Re: [openssl-project] Release strategy updates & other policies

2018-09-25 Thread Tim Hudson
On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 10:37 PM Matt Caswell wrote: > - Added some new macros: > https://github.com/openssl/openssl/pull/6037 No we didn't change our public API for this one - we changed *internals*. The change to include/openssl/crypto.h was entirely changing *comments* to document that the i

Re: [openssl-project] Release strategy updates & other policies

2018-09-25 Thread Tim Hudson
On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 9:22 PM Matt Caswell wrote: > Lets imagine we release version 5.0.0. We create a branch for it and > declare a support period. Its an LTS release. This is a *stable* > release, so we shouldn't de-stabilise it by adding new features. > > Later we do some work on some new fe

Re: [openssl-project] Release strategy updates & other policies

2018-09-25 Thread Tim Hudson
On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 8:07 PM Matt Caswell wrote: > On 25/09/18 10:58, Tim Hudson wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 7:23 PM Richard Levitte > <mailto:levi...@openssl.org>> wrote: > > > > So what you suggest (and what I'm leaning toward) means

Re: [openssl-project] Release strategy updates & other policies

2018-09-25 Thread Tim Hudson
On Tue, Sep 25, 2018 at 7:23 PM Richard Levitte wrote: > So what you suggest (and what I'm leaning toward) means that we will > change our habits. > Adoption of semantic versioning will indeed require us to change our habits in a number of areas - that is the point of having a single clear defin

Re: [openssl-project] Release strategy updates & other policies

2018-09-25 Thread Tim Hudson
A fairly common approach that is used is that you can only remove something that has been marked for deprecation at a MAJOR release version boundary. That is entirely independent of the semantic versioning view of things - which also happens to say the same thing (that adding a deprecation indicat

Re: [openssl-project] A proposal for an updated OpenSSL version scheme (v2)

2018-09-21 Thread Tim Hudson
On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 3:12 PM Viktor Dukhovni wrote: > The proposal to move the minor version into nibbles 2 and 3 breaks this > OpenSSH function. > No it doesn't - because I'm not talking about moving *anything* in the current encoding for major and minor - see earlier post. The positions don

Re: [openssl-project] A proposal for an updated OpenSSL version scheme (v2)

2018-09-21 Thread Tim Hudson
If you accept that we have a MAJOR.MINOR.FIX.PATCH encoding currently documented and in place and that the encoding in OPENSSL_VERSION_NUMBER is documented then the semantic versioning is an easy change. We do not need to change our encoding of MAJOR.MINOR - that is documented and fixed. We just ne

Re: [openssl-project] A proposal for an updated OpenSSL version scheme (v2)

2018-09-21 Thread Tim Hudson
On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 11:55 AM Viktor Dukhovni wrote: > this is an ad-hoc encoding with monitonicity as the > the only constraint. > If you start from the position that the encoding of OPENSSL_VERSION_NUMBER is free to change so long as the resulting value is larger than what we have been usin

Re: [openssl-project] A proposal for an updated OpenSSL version scheme (v2)

2018-09-21 Thread Tim Hudson
On Sat, 22 Sep. 2018, 3:24 am Viktor Dukhovni, wrote: > > On Sep 21, 2018, at 12:50 PM, Tim Hudson wrote: > > If that is the case then our current practice of allowing ABI breakage > with > > minor release changes (the middle number we document as the minor > release n

Re: [openssl-project] A proposal for an updated OpenSSL version scheme (v2)

2018-09-21 Thread Tim Hudson
On Sat, 22 Sep. 2018, 2:29 am Viktor Dukhovni, wrote: > > > > On Sep 21, 2018, at 12:14 PM, Matt Caswell wrote: > > > > I support Richard's proposal with an epoch of 1. > > Grudgingly I would accept an epoch in the 3-8 range. > > I would oppose an epoch of 2. > > I can live with that, though it

Re: [openssl-project] A proposal for an updated OpenSSL version scheme (v2)

2018-09-21 Thread Tim Hudson
On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 1:39 AM Viktor Dukhovni wrote: > The only change needed is a minor one in applications that actually > parse the nibbles What I was suggesting is that we don't need to break the current encoding at all. We have a major.minor.fix version encoded and documented in the heade

Re: [openssl-project] A proposal for an updated OpenSSL version scheme (v2)

2018-09-21 Thread Tim Hudson
On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 1:34 AM Matthias St. Pierre < matthias.st.pie...@ncp-e.com> wrote: > > On 21.09.2018 17:27, Tim Hudson wrote: > > > > We cannot remove the current major version number - as that concept > exists and we have used it all along. > > We don

Re: [openssl-project] A proposal for an updated OpenSSL version scheme (v2)

2018-09-21 Thread Tim Hudson
On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 1:16 AM Viktor Dukhovni wrote: > > > > On Sep 21, 2018, at 11:00 AM, Tim Hudson wrote: > > > > If you repeat that in semantic versioning concepts just using the labels > for mapping you get: > > - what is the major version number - the

Re: [openssl-project] A proposal for an updated OpenSSL version scheme (v2)

2018-09-21 Thread Tim Hudson
On Sat, Sep 22, 2018 at 12:32 AM Viktor Dukhovni wrote: > > On Sep 21, 2018, at 10:07 AM, Tim Hudson wrote: > > > > And the output you get: > > > > 0x10102000 > > The trouble is that existing software expects to potential ABI changes > resulting from cha

Re: [openssl-project] A proposal for an updated OpenSSL version scheme (v2)

2018-09-21 Thread Tim Hudson
_VERSION_MINOR,OPENSSL_VERSION_PATCH); printf("%s\n",OPENSSL_VERSION_TEXT); } And the output you get: 0x10102000 1.1.2 1.1.2-beta1+21Sep2018.optbuild.arm Tim. On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 11:36 PM Richard Levitte wrote: > In message w2o_njr8bfoor...@mail.gmail.com> on Fri, 21

Re: [openssl-project] A proposal for an updated OpenSSL version scheme (v2)

2018-09-21 Thread Tim Hudson
Now I get the conceptual issue that Richard and Matt are differing on - and it is about actually replacing OpenSSL's versioning concept with semantic versioning compared to adopting semantic versioning principles without actually being precisely a semantic version approach. The whole concept of se

Re: [openssl-project] A proposal for an updated OpenSSL version scheme (v2)

2018-09-21 Thread Tim Hudson
Semantic versioning is about a consistent concept of version handling. And that concept of consistency should be in a forms of the version - be it text string or numberic. That you see them as two somewhat independent concepts isn't something I support or thing makes sense at all. Our users code

Re: [openssl-project] A proposal for an updated OpenSSL version scheme (v2)

2018-09-21 Thread Tim Hudson
So as a concrete example - taking master and the current OPENSSL_VERSION_TEXT value. "OpenSSL 1.1.2-dev xx XXX " would become "1.1.2-dev+xx.XXX." That is what I understand is the point of semantic versioning. You know how to pull apart the version string. -dev indicates a pre-release v

Re: [openssl-project] A proposal for an updated OpenSSL version scheme (v2)

2018-09-21 Thread Tim Hudson
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 9:02 PM Matt Caswell wrote: > I think this is an incorrect interpretation of Richard's proposal. The > OPENSSL_VERSION_NUMBER value is an *integer* value. It does not and > cannot ever conform to semantic versioning because, because version > numbers in that scheme are *st

Re: [openssl-project] A proposal for an updated OpenSSL version scheme (v2)

2018-09-21 Thread Tim Hudson
On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 7:58 PM Richard Levitte wrote: > Our FAQ says that such changes *may* be part of a major > release (we don't guarantee that breaking changes won't happen), while > semantic versioning says that major releases *do* incur backward > incompatible API changes. > I think you a

Re: [openssl-project] coverity defect release criteria (Fwd: New Defects reported by Coverity Scan for openssl/openssl)

2018-09-10 Thread Tim Hudson
On Mon, Sep 10, 2018 at 8:44 AM, Matt Caswell wrote: > As far as the release criteria go we only count the ones shown in the > Coverity tool. That's not to say we shouldn't fix issues in the tests as > well (and actually I'd suggest we stop filtering out problems in the > tests if anyone knows ho

Re: [openssl-project] Please freeze the repo

2018-09-09 Thread Tim Hudson
Done. Tim. On Sun, Sep 9, 2018 at 8:34 PM, Matt Caswell wrote: > Please can someone freeze the repo: > > ssh openssl-...@git.openssl.org freeze openssl matt > > > Thanks > > Matt > ___ > openssl-project mailing list > openssl-project@openssl.org > ht

Re: [openssl-project] Release Criteria Update

2018-09-06 Thread Tim Hudson
All PRs except #7145 now reviewed and marked ready. Tim On Fri, Sep 7, 2018 at 8:41 AM, Matt Caswell wrote: > We currently have 8 1.1.1 PRs that are open. 3 of which are in the > "ready" state. There are 2 which are alternative implementations of the > same thing - so there are really on 4 issu

Re: [openssl-project] Release Criteria Update

2018-09-06 Thread Tim Hudson
We need to get this release out and available - there are a lot of people waiting on the "production"release - and who won't go forward on a beta (simple fact of life there). I don't see the outstanding items as release blockers - and they will be wrapped up in time. Having the release date as a

Re: [openssl-project] Release Criteria Update

2018-09-05 Thread Tim Hudson
On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 8:59 AM, Matt Caswell wrote: > #7113 An alternative to address the SM2 ID issues > (an alternative to the older PR, #6757) > > Updates made following earlier review. Awaiting another round of reviews. > Owner: Paul Yang All the previous comments have been addressed. I note

[openssl-project] New OMC Member and New Committers

2018-08-22 Thread Tim Hudson
Welcome to Paul Dale (OMC) , Paul Yang and Nicola Tuveri (Commiters). See the blog post at https://www.openssl.org/blog/blog/2018/08/22/updates/ Thanks, Tim. ___ openssl-project mailing list openssl-project@openssl.org https://mta.openssl.org/mailman/l

Re: [openssl-project] Removal of NULL checks

2018-08-08 Thread Tim Hudson
We don't have a formal policy of no NULL checks - we just have a few members that think we should have such a policy but it has never been voted on as we had sufficiently varying views for a consensus approach to not be possible. Personally I'm in favour of high-level APIs having NULL checks as it

Re: [openssl-project] Current votes FYI

2018-05-23 Thread Tim Hudson
No that vote does not pass. All votes require participation by a majority of active members. Failure to have a majority participation causes a vote to fail. With only three out of eight members voting this vote simply did not pass. Tim. On Thu, 24 May 2018, 12:59 am Salz, Rich, wrote: > Anoth

Re: [openssl-project] The problem of (implicit) relinking and changed behaviour

2018-04-15 Thread Tim Hudson
Where we are stating that ABI compatibility is in place we should be testing it. i.e. the older release binaries should be run against the current release libraries - and that should be put into CI in my view. Going the other direction isn't something I have thought we have ever guaranteed (i.e. d

Re: [openssl-project] FW: April Crypto Bulletin from Cryptosense

2018-04-03 Thread Tim Hudson
> In message w...@mail.gmail.com> on Tue, 03 Apr 2018 15:36:15 +, Tim Hudson < > t...@cryptsoft.com> said: > > tjh> And it should have a test - which has nothing to do with ASM and > everything to do with improving > tjh> test coverage. > tjh> > tjh&

Re: [openssl-project] FW: April Crypto Bulletin from Cryptosense

2018-04-03 Thread Tim Hudson
And it should have a test - which has nothing to do with ASM and everything to do with improving test coverage. Bugs are bugs - and any form of meaningful test would have caught this. For the majority of the ASM code - the algorithm implementations we have tests that cover things in a decent mann

Re: [openssl-project] Is making tests faster a bugfix?

2018-03-29 Thread Tim Hudson
Improved testing to me is something that is a good thing - and a value judgement. It doesn't change libcrypto or libssl - and that to me is the way I think of it. Fixing tests and apps and Makefiles to me are different from adding features to libcrypto or libssl. On this one - the fuzz testing has

[openssl-project] wiki info for pre-1.0.2

2018-03-26 Thread Tim Hudson
Seeing "This was the original information, might still be valid for < 1.0.2 openssl versions :" at https://wiki.openssl.org/index.php/Hostname_validation raises the question as to whether or not the wiki should contain information for versions of OpenSSL that are no longer supported. Thoughts? Ti

[openssl-project] constification on already released branches

2018-03-25 Thread Tim Hudson
https://github.com/openssl/openssl/pull/2181 and https://github.com/openssl/openssl/pull/1603#issuecomment-248649700 One thing that should be noted is that if you are building with -Wall -Werror (which many projects do) and you are using OpenSSL and things change from a const perspective builds br

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