[openstack-dev] [Neutron][DevStack] How to increase developer usage of Neutron

2014-08-14 Thread Mike Spreitzer
I'll bet I am not the only developer who is not highly competent with bridges and tunnels, Open VSwitch, Neutron configuration, and how DevStack transmutes all those. My bet is that you would have more developers using Neutron if there were an easy-to-find and easy-to-follow recipe to use, to

Re: [openstack-dev] [Neutron][DevStack] How to increase developer usage of Neutron

2014-08-14 Thread Mike Spreitzer
CARVER, PAUL pc2...@att.com wrote on 08/14/2014 09:35:17 AM: Mike Spreitzer [mailto:mspre...@us.ibm.com] wrote: I'll bet I am not the only developer who is not highly competent with bridges and tunnels, Open VSwitch, Neutron configuration, and how DevStack transmutes all those. My bet

Re: [openstack-dev] OS or os are not acronyms for OpenStack

2014-08-15 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Anita Kuno ante...@anteaya.info wrote on 08/15/2014 10:38:20 AM: OpenStack is OpenStack. The use of openstack is also acceptable in our development conversations. OS or os is operating system. I am starting to see some people us OS or os to mean OpenStack. This is confusing and also

Re: [openstack-dev] OS or os are not acronyms for OpenStack

2014-08-15 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Anita Kuno ante...@anteaya.info wrote on 08/15/2014 01:08:44 PM: ... I think you hit the nail on the head here, Russell, it's fine in the right context. The definition of the right context however is somewhat elusive. I have chosen (it is my own fault) to place myself in the area where the

Re: [openstack-dev] OS or os are not acronyms for OpenStack

2014-08-15 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Russell Bryant rbry...@redhat.com wrote on 08/15/2014 01:49:40 PM: ... but surely when it comes to learning OpenStack itself, the OpenStack community, dev processes, tools, etc this has got to be extremely far down the list of barriers to entry. No argument there. I am spending decimal

Re: [openstack-dev] [OpenStack][Docker] Run OpenStack Service in Docker Container

2014-08-19 Thread Mike Spreitzer
In particular, I tried to run DevStack inside an LXC a few months ago. I discovered that DevStack (presumably for the sake of cinder-volume) pre-reqs a system package named tgt, and tgt does not succeed to install inside an LXC (the install script launches the daemon, but the daemon launch

Re: [openstack-dev] [OpenStack][Docker] Run OpenStack Service in Docker Container

2014-08-19 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Jay Lau jay.lau@gmail.com wrote on 08/14/2014 08:54:56 AM: I see a few mentions of OpenStack services themselves being containerized in Docker. Is this a serious trend in the community? http://allthingsopen.com/2014/02/12/why-containers-for-openstack-services/ It looks to me like the

[openstack-dev] Separating the issues around smarter/solver/joint/holistic placement

2014-08-19 Thread Mike Spreitzer
There has been a lot of discussion around these issues, let me see if I can break it down into pieces, hopefully in a way that allows some progress on one of them first. I continue to focus on the timeless version of the problem, in which the placement question is simply where can we put some

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] Separating the issues around smarter/solver/joint/holistic placement

2014-08-19 Thread Mike Spreitzer
This is primarily an issue for Nova. Mike Spreitzer/Watson/IBM@IBMUS wrote on 08/20/2014 01:21:24 AM: From: Mike Spreitzer/Watson/IBM@IBMUS To: OpenStack Development Mailing List openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 08/20/2014 01:24 AM Subject: [openstack-dev] Separating the issues

[openstack-dev] [heat] heat.conf.sample is not up to date

2014-08-24 Thread Mike Spreitzer
committed? BTW, I am doing the following admittedly risky thing: I run DevStack, and make my changes in /opt/stack/heat/. Thanks, Mike - Forwarded by Mike Spreitzer/Watson/IBM on 08/24/2014 03:03 AM - From: ubuntu@mjs-dstk-821a (Ubuntu) To: Mike Spreitzer/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, Date: 08/24

Re: [openstack-dev] [heat] heat.conf.sample is not up to date

2014-08-24 Thread Mike Spreitzer
DevStack, and make my changes in /opt/stack/heat/. Thanks, Mike - Forwarded by Mike Spreitzer/Watson/IBM on 08/24/2014 03:03 AM - From: ubuntu@mjs-dstk-821a (Ubuntu) To: Mike Spreitzer/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, Date: 08/24/2014 02:55 AM Subject:fresh

Re: [openstack-dev] [heat] heat.conf.sample is not up to date

2014-08-24 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Morgan Fainberg morgan.fainb...@gmail.com wrote on 08/24/2014 12:01:37 PM: ... Keystone saw an oddity with the new sample config generator (changing how options are sorted and therefore changing the way the sample config is rendered). This could be a similar / related issue. Most of

Re: [openstack-dev] [heat] heat.conf.sample is not up to date

2014-08-24 Thread Mike Spreitzer
] heat.conf.sample is not up to date On Sun, Aug 24, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Mike Spreitzer mspre...@us.ibm.com wrote: What I really need to know is what to do when committing a change that really does require a change in the sample configuration file. Of course I tried running generate_sample.sh

[openstack-dev] [heat] Re: Change in openstack/heat[master]: Implement AZ spanning for ASGs

2014-08-27 Thread Mike Spreitzer
You offered to share ideas about a different way to approach spanning AZs for OS::Heat::AutoScalingGroup. I am interested. Can we discuss it here? Thanks, Mike___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] referencing the index of a ResourceGroup

2014-09-11 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Steven Hardy sha...@redhat.com wrote on 09/11/2014 04:21:18 AM: On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 04:44:01PM -0500, Jason Greathouse wrote: I'm trying to find a way to create a set of servers and attach a new volume to each server. ... Basically creating lots of resource groups for

[openstack-dev] [heat] Confused about the future of health maintenance and OS::Heat::HARestarter

2014-09-17 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Background: Health maintenance is very important to users, and I have users who want to do it now and into the future. Today a Heat user can write a template that maintains the health of a resource R. The detection of a health problem can be done by anything that hits a webhook. That

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] naming of provider template for docs

2014-09-18 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Angus Salkeld asalk...@mirantis.com wrote on 09/18/2014 09:33:56 PM: Hi I am trying to add some docs to openstack-manuals hot_guide about using provider templates : https://review.openstack.org/#/c/121741/ Mike has suggested we use a different term, he thinks provider is confusing. I

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] naming of provider template for docs

2014-09-19 Thread Mike Spreitzer
On further thought, I noticed that template-based resource also describes an AWS::CloudFormation::Stack; and since those are template-based, you could well describe them as custom too. Would you consider nested stack to also describe resources of other types that are implemented by Python code

Re: [openstack-dev] [all][tripleo] New Project - Kolla: Deploy and Manage OpenStack using Kubernetes and Docker

2014-09-23 Thread Mike Spreitzer
I don't know if anyone else has noticed, but you can not install Cinder inside a container. Cinder requires an iSCSI package that fails to install; its install script tries to launch the daemon, and that fails. Regards, Mike___ OpenStack-dev mailing

[openstack-dev] [nova] Change I005e752c: Whitelist external netaddr requirement, for bug 1266513, ineffective for me

2014-01-06 Thread Mike Spreitzer
I am suffering from bug 1266513, when trying to work on nova. For example, on MacOS 10.8.5, I clone nova and then (following the instructions at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/DependsOnOSX) run `cd nova; python tools/install_venv.py`. It fails due to PyPI lacking a sufficiently advanced

[openstack-dev] [nova][documentation][devstack] Confused about how to set up a Nova development environment

2014-01-09 Thread Mike Spreitzer
I am trying to become a bit less of a newbie, and having a bit of difficulty with basics. Following are some questions, and reviews of the relevant documentation that I have been able to find (I am trying to contribute to documentation as well as solve my setup problems). My driving question

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][documentation][devstack] Confused about how to set up a Nova development environment

2014-01-09 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Brant Knudson b...@acm.org wrote on 01/09/2014 10:07:27 AM: When I was starting out, I ran devstack ( http://devstack.org/ ) on an Ubuntu VM. You wind up with a system where you've got a basic running OpenStack so you can try things out with the command-line utilities, and also do

Re: [openstack-dev] Next steps for Whole Host allocation / Pclouds

2014-01-21 Thread Mike Spreitzer
I want to explore the linkage between the proposed exclusive use filter and scheduling a little more. At the Icehouse summit I heard the concern that without advance preparation, there may well be zero hosts that are acceptable. Why is that not a concern now? What does the Nova scheduler do

Re: [openstack-dev] Next steps for Whole Host allocation / Pclouds

2014-01-22 Thread Mike Spreitzer
From: Sylvain Bauza sylvain.ba...@bull.net Le 22/01/2014 02:50, Jay Pipes a écrit : Yup, agreed. It's difficult to guess what the capacity implications would be without having solid numbers on customer demands for this functionality, including hard data on how long such instances would

Re: [openstack-dev] Next steps for Whole Host allocation / Pclouds

2014-01-22 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Jay Pipes jaypi...@gmail.com wrote on 01/21/2014 08:50:36 PM: ... On Tue, 2014-01-21 at 14:28 +, Day, Phil wrote: I think there is clear water between this and the existing aggregate based isolation. I also think this is a different use case from reservations. It's

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova][Scheduler] Policy Based Scheduler and Solver Scheduler

2014-02-04 Thread Mike Spreitzer
From: Khanh-Toan Tran khanh-toan.t...@cloudwatt.com ... There is an unexpected line break in the middle of the link, so I post it again: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RfP7jRsw1mXMjd7in72ARjK0fTrsQv1bqolOri IQB2Y The mailing list software keeps inserting that line break. I

Re: [openstack-dev] [heat] Sofware Config progress

2014-02-05 Thread Mike Spreitzer
From: Steven Dake sd...@redhat.com ... The crux of the problem is how do you obtain critical mass for custom one-off solutions? Lets assume two possible solutions to this problem that these vendors could take. If there are more, please feel free to explain them: 1) Implement a ReST

Re: [openstack-dev] [heat] Sofware Config progress [for appliances]

2014-02-05 Thread Mike Spreitzer
From: Prasad Vellanki prasad.vella...@oneconvergence.com To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 01/21/2014 02:16 AM Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [heat] Sofware Config progress Steve Clint That should work. We will

[openstack-dev] [heat] non-trivial example - IBM Connections

2014-02-06 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Thanks to work by several colleagues, I can share a non-trivial Heat template for a system that we have been using as an example to work. It is in the TAR archive here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BypF9OutGsW3Z2JqVTcxaW1BeXc/edit?usp=sharing Start at connections.yaml. Also in the

Re: [openstack-dev] [heat] non-trivial example - IBM Connections [and Murano]

2014-02-08 Thread Mike Spreitzer
From: Georgy Okrokvertskhov gokrokvertsk...@mirantis.com ... Thank you for sharing this. It looks pretty impressive. Could you, please some details about DSL syntax, if it is possible? I will respond briefly, and pass your request along to the people working on that. In the Weaver language

Re: [openstack-dev] Gamification and on-boarding ...

2014-02-13 Thread Mike Spreitzer
From: Sean Dague s...@dague.net ... Realistically, the biggest issue I see with on-boarding is mentoring time. Especially with folks completely new to our structure, there is a lot of confusing things going on. And OpenStack is a ton to absorb. I get pinged a lot on IRC, answer when I can,

Re: [openstack-dev] heat run_tests.sh fails with one huge line of output

2014-02-16 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Robert Collins robe...@robertcollins.net wrote on 02/16/2014 05:26:50 PM: I would have expected run_tests.sh to tox which creates a venv, but heat seems different. So you'll need to install testrepository via your system tox, not one from a venv. I don't think I have a system tox. `pip list

[openstack-dev] Unit Testing Nova

2014-02-18 Thread Mike Spreitzer
I am trying to figure out how I should be doing unit testing, and documenting it in https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Gerrit_Workflow Oddly, the situation for Nova seems reversed: run_tests.sh works and tox does not. See http://paste.openstack.org/show/66969/ for my experiences with each. Am I

Re: [openstack-dev] Unit Testing Nova

2014-02-18 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Boris Pavlovic bpavlo...@mirantis.com wrote on 02/18/2014 12:55:26 PM: What version of tox do you use? That was using version 1.6.1 (as a workaround to https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/1274135). Also, this was a fresh DevStack install (done about an hour or two before I posted to

Re: [openstack-dev] Unit Testing Nova

2014-02-18 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Mike Spreitzer/Watson/IBM@IBMUS wrote on 02/18/2014 01:22:33 PM: That was using version 1.6.1 (as a workaround to https:// bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-ci/+bug/1274135). Also, this was a fresh DevStack install (done about an hour or two before I posted to the list), with a pretty plain

Re: [openstack-dev] Change in openstack-dev/devstack[master]: Remove limitation to 12.04 release because the problematic 1...

2014-02-18 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Dean Troyer (Code Review) rev...@openstack.org wrote on 02/18/2014 05:53:03 PM: I'm curious why we haven't seen this before now? I've run on bare raring and saucy systems a number of times...need to try again I suppose... Yes, I have previously done lots of DevStack installs on

[openstack-dev] tox in Ubuntu 13.04 (raring) or earlier?

2014-02-19 Thread Mike Spreitzer
I just installed DevStack into raring, and that appeared to work. So I went on to try `tox` in /opt/stack/nova. My invocation of tox created a virtual environment using /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/virtualenv.py. In raring the latest virtualenv is version 1.9.1, which installs pip

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat][docs] Need more sample HOT templates for users

2014-02-21 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 02/21/2014 12:23:05 PM: Yeah, we are overloading the term 'developer' here, since that section contains both information that is only useful to developers working on Heat itself, and information useful to users developing templates. At the highest

[openstack-dev] bug 1203680 - fix requires doc

2014-02-21 Thread Mike Spreitzer
https://bugs.launchpad.net/devstack/+bug/1203680 is literally about Glance but Nova has the same problem. There is a fix released, but just merging that fix accomplishes nothing --- we need people who run DevStack to set the new variable (INSTALL_TESTONLY_PACKAGES). This is something that

Re: [openstack-dev] supported dependency versioning and testing

2014-02-21 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Sean Dague s...@dague.net wrote on 02/20/2014 02:45:03 PM: ... That being said, we also need to be a little bit careful about taking such a hard line about supported vs. not based on only what's in the gate. Because if we did the following things would be listed as unsupported (in increasing

Re: [openstack-dev] bug 1203680 - fix requires doc

2014-02-21 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Sean Dague s...@dague.net wrote on 02/21/2014 06:09:18 PM: On 02/21/2014 05:28 PM, Clark Boylan wrote: ... I would be wary of relying on devstack to configure your unittest environments. Just like it takes over the node you run it on, devstack takes full ownership of the repos it clones

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] [glance] [heat] bug 1203680 - fix requires doc

2014-02-25 Thread Mike Spreitzer
(I added some tags in the subject line, probably should have been there from the start.) Thanks guys, for an informative discussion. I have updated https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Gerrit_Workflow and https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Testing to incorporate what I have learned. Like Ben I know

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] [glance] [heat] bug 1203680 - fix requires doc

2014-02-26 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Dean Troyer dtro...@gmail.com wrote on 02/26/2014 12:53:31 PM: Thanks for the updates, but I've massaged the project bits and restored/expanded the reasons to consider one or the other option. Thanks for the further updates. I have just one question about those. One way to do both unit

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] [glance] [heat] bug 1203680 - fix requires doc

2014-02-26 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Dean Troyer dtro...@gmail.com wrote on 02/26/2014 03:28:04 PM: On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 1:09 PM, Mike Spreitzer mspre...@us.ibm.com wrote: Thanks for the further updates. I have just one question about those. One way to do both unit testing and system (integration) testing is to: git

[openstack-dev] How to configure DevStack to use Ceilometer?

2014-02-28 Thread Mike Spreitzer
So far I have found three different sources, and they all say different things. http://techs.enovance.com/5991/autoscaling-with-heat-and-ceilometer http://devstack.org/lib/ceilometer.html http://docs.openstack.org/developer/ceilometer/install/development.html Thanks,

Re: [openstack-dev] How to configure DevStack to use Ceilometer?

2014-02-28 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Swapnil Kulkarni swapnilkulkarni2...@gmail.com wrote on 03/01/2014 12:36:49 AM: I am able to configure devstack with ceilometer adding following to localrc enable_service ceilometer-acompute ceilometer-acentral ceilometer- collector ceilometer-api enable_service ceilometer-alarm-notifier

[openstack-dev] [neutron][devstack] Working config for Neutron install by DevStack?

2014-03-12 Thread Mike Spreitzer
I want to use DevStack to install and configure OpenStack with Neutron, into a VM in an OpenStack undercloud. I looked at https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/NeutronDevstack and tried that, and failed. Looking deeper, I see there are very important additional details to pay attention to: flat

[openstack-dev] [heat][neutron] OS::Heat::AutoScalingGroup and OS::Neutron::PoolMember?

2014-03-12 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Has anybody exercised the case of OS::Heat::AutoScalingGroup scaling a nested stack that includes a OS::Neutron::PoolMember? Should I expect this to work? Thanks, Mike___ OpenStack-dev mailing list OpenStack-dev@lists.openstack.org

Re: [openstack-dev] [heat][neutron] OS::Heat::AutoScalingGroup and OS::Neutron::PoolMember?

2014-03-13 Thread Mike Spreitzer
it without code changes as far as I can tell. I think its only a few days of work, but the OpenStack CLA is preventing me from contributing. :/ Thanks, Kevin From: Mike Spreitzer [mspre...@us.ibm.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 12, 2014 11:34 AM To: OpenStack Development Mailing List Subject

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] Stack breakpoint

2014-03-17 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 03/17/2014 07:03:25 PM: On 17/03/14 17:03, Ton Ngo wrote: - How to handle resources with timer, e.g. wait condition: pause/resume timer value Handle it by only allowing pauses before and after. In most cases I'm not sure what it would mean to

[openstack-dev] [nova] avahi-autoipd vs. nova networking (cloud-init)

2014-03-29 Thread Mike Spreitzer
I run into trouble in Ubuntu VMs when avahi-autoipd is installed. This is when I install OpenStack using DevStack with a fairly plain local.conf. For example, make an instance of Ubuntu Server 12.04. You can reboot it, and all is well. Cloud-init continues to be able to read its metadata

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova] avahi-autoipd vs. nova networking (cloud-init)

2014-03-31 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Lars Kellogg-Stedman l...@redhat.com wrote on 03/31/2014 01:31:57 PM: ... you could add an explicit route to the metadata address via your default gateway Yes, and there are other work-arounds possible too. I posted here because I was concerned there may be a bug that needs fixing. Why

[openstack-dev] [heat] metadata for a HOT

2014-04-02 Thread Mike Spreitzer
I would like to suggest that a metadata section be allowed at the top level of a HOT. Note that while resources in a stack can have metadata, there is no way to put metadata on a stack itself. What do you think? Thanks, Mike___ OpenStack-dev mailing

Re: [openstack-dev] [heat] metadata for a HOT

2014-04-02 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 04/02/2014 05:36:43 PM: I think that if you're going to propose a new feature, you should at least give us a clue who you think is going to use it and what for ;) I was not eager to do that yet because I have not found a fully satisfactory answer yet,

Re: [openstack-dev] [heat] metadata for a HOT

2014-04-03 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Clint Byrum cl...@fewbar.com wrote on 04/03/2014 01:10:30 PM: Things that affect the stack as a whole really belong in the stack API. That would also put them in the OS::Heat::Stack resource, so the template language already supports that. The OS::Heat::Stack resource is one of several that

Re: [openstack-dev] [heat] metadata for a HOT

2014-04-03 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Keith Bray keith.b...@rackspace.com wrote on 04/03/2014 01:50:28 PM: We proposed another specific piece of template data [3] which I can't remember whether it was met with resistance or we just didn't get to implementing it since we knew we would have to store other data specific to our

Re: [openstack-dev] [heat] [nova] How should a holistic scheduler relate to Heat?

2014-04-04 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Clint Byrum cl...@fewbar.com wrote on 04/03/2014 07:01:16 PM: ... The whole question raises many more questions, and I wonder if there's just something you haven't told us about this use case. :-P Yes, I seem to have made a muddle of things by starting in one corner of a design space. Let

Re: [openstack-dev] [tempest]:Please updated etherpad before adding tempest tests

2014-04-04 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Kekane, Abhishek abhishek.kek...@nttdata.com wrote on 04/04/2014 06:26:58 AM: This is regarding implementation of blueprint https:// blueprints.launchpad.net/tempest/+spec/testcases-expansion-icehouse. As per mentioned in etherpads for this blueprint, please add your name if you are

Re: [openstack-dev] [Climate] Questions and comments

2013-10-08 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Yes, that helps. Please, guys, do not interpret my questions as hostility, I really am just trying to understand. I think there is some overlap between your concerns and mine, and I hope we can work together. Sticking to the physical reservations for the moment, let me ask for a little more

Re: [openstack-dev] [Climate] Questions and comments

2013-10-08 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Sylvain: please do not interpret my questions as hostility. I am only trying to understand your proposal, but I am still confused. Can you please walk through a scenario involving Climate reservations on virtual resources? I mean from start to finish, outlining which party makes which

Re: [openstack-dev] [scheduler] APIs for Smart Resource Placement - Updated Instance Group Model and API extension model - WIP Draft

2013-10-08 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Thanks for the clue about where the request/response bodies are documented. Is there any convenient way to view built documentation for Havana right now? You speak repeatedly of the desire for clean interfaces, and nobody could disagree with such words. I characterize my desire that way too.

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software orchestration proposal for workflows

2013-10-09 Thread Mike Spreitzer
I favor separation of concerns. I think (4), at least, has got nothing to do with infrastructure orchestration, the primary concern of today's heat engine. I advocate (4), but as separate functionality. Regards, Mike Alex Rudenko alexei.rude...@gmail.com wrote on 10/09/2013 12:59:22 PM:

Re: [openstack-dev] [scheduler] APIs for Smart Resource Placement - Updated Instance Group Model and API extension model - WIP Draft

2013-10-09 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Yes, there is more than the northbound API to discuss. Gary started us there in the Scheduler chat on Oct 1, when he broke the issues down like this: 11:12:22 AM garyk: 1. a user facing API 11:12:41 AM garyk: 2. understanding which resources need to be tracked 11:12:48 AM garyk: 3. backend

Re: [openstack-dev] [scheduler] APIs for Smart Resource Placement - Updated Instance Group Model and API extension model - WIP Draft

2013-10-09 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Debojyoti Dutta ddu...@gmail.com wrote on 10/09/2013 02:48:26 AM: Mike, I agree we could have a cleaner API but I am not sure how cleanly it will integrate with current nova which IMO should be test we should pass (assuming we do cross services later) I think the cleaner APIs integrate with

Re: [openstack-dev] [scheduler] APIs for Smart Resource Placement - Updated Instance Group Model and API extension model - WIP Draft

2013-10-11 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Regarding Alex's question of which component does holistic infrastructure scheduling, I hesitate to simply answer heat. Heat is about orchestration, and infrastructure scheduling is another matter. I have attempted to draw pictures to sort this out, see

Re: [openstack-dev] [scheduler] APIs for Smart Resource Placement - Updated Instance Group Model and API extension model - WIP Draft

2013-10-11 Thread Mike Spreitzer
@lists.openstack.org, Cc: Mike Spreitzer/Watson/IBM@IBMUS Date: 10/11/2013 08:19 AM Subject:Re: [openstack-dev] [scheduler] APIs for Smart Resource Placement - Updated Instance Group Model and API extension model - WIP Draft Long-story short, sounds like we do have the same concerns here

[openstack-dev] [scheduler] Policy Model

2013-10-14 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Could we agree on the following small changes to the model you posted last week? 1. Rename InstanceGroupPolicy to InstanceGroupPolicyUse 2. In InstanceGroupPolicy[Use], rename the policy field to policy_type 3. Add an InstanceGroupPolicyUseProperty table, holding key/value pairs (two

Re: [openstack-dev] [scheduler] Policy Model

2013-10-14 Thread Mike Spreitzer
simply merged inline into the InstanceGroupPolicy[Use] class. Regards, Mike From: Yathiraj Udupi (yudupi) yud...@cisco.com To: Mike Spreitzer/Watson/IBM@IBMUS, Cc: OpenStack Development Mailing List openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org Date: 10/14/2013 01:38 PM Subject:Re

Re: [openstack-dev] [scheduler] APIs for Smart Resource Placement - Updated Instance Group Model and API extension model - WIP Draft

2013-10-14 Thread Mike Spreitzer
That came through beautifully formatted to me, but it looks much worse in the archive. I'm going to use crude email tech here, so that I know it won't lose anything in handling. Yathiraj Udupi (yudupi) yud...@cisco.com wrote on 10/14/2013 01:17:47 PM: I read your email where you expressed

Re: [openstack-dev] Scheduler meeting and Icehouse Summit

2013-10-14 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Yes, Rethinking Scheduler Design http://summit.openstack.org/cfp/details/34 is not the same as the performance issue that Boris raised. I think the former would be a natural consequence of moving to an optimization-based joint decision-making framework, because such a thing necessarily takes

Re: [openstack-dev] [scheduler] Policy Model

2013-10-14 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Yathiraj Udupi (yudupi) yud...@cisco.com wrote on 10/14/2013 11:43:34 PM: ... For the policy model, you can expect rows in the DB each representing different policy instances something like- {id: , uuid: SOME-UUID-1, name: anti-colocation-1, type: anti-colocation, properties:

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-15 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Steve Baker sba...@redhat.com wrote on 10/15/2013 06:48:53 PM: From: Steve Baker sba...@redhat.com To: openstack-dev@lists.openstack.org, Date: 10/15/2013 06:51 PM Subject: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal I've just written some proposals to address Heat's HOT

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-15 Thread Mike Spreitzer
The threading in the archive includes this discussion under the HOT Software orchestration proposal for workflows heading, and the overall ordering in the archive looks very mixed up to me. I am going to reply here, hoping that the new subject line will be subject to less strange ordering in

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-16 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Steven Hardy sha...@redhat.com wrote on 10/16/2013 04:11:40 AM: ... IMO we should be abstracting the software configuration complexity behind a Heat resource interface, not pushing it up to a pre-processor (which implies some horribly complex interfaces at the heat template level) I am not

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-16 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 10/16/2013 08:25:38 AM: To answer your question, the key thing that Heat does is take in two declarative models and generate a workflow to transform one into the other. (The general case of this is a stack update, where the two models are defined in

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-16 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 10/16/2013 10:30:44 AM: On 16/10/13 15:58, Mike Spreitzer wrote: ... Thanks for a great short sharp answer. In that light, I see a concern. Once a workflow has been generated, the system has lost the ability to adapt to changes in either model

Re: [openstack-dev] Scheduler meeting and Icehouse Summit

2013-10-16 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Mike Wilson geekinu...@gmail.com wrote on 10/16/2013 07:13:17 PM: I need to understand better what holistic scheduling means, ... By holistic I simply mean making a joint decision all at once about a bunch of related resources of a variety of types. For example, making a joint decision about

Re: [openstack-dev] Change in openstack/heat[master]: Implement a Heat-native resource group

2013-10-17 Thread Mike Spreitzer
What is the rationale for this new feature? Since there is already an autoscaling group implemented by Heat, what is the added benefit here? And why is it being done as another heat-native thing rather than as an independent service (e.g., as outlined in

Re: [openstack-dev] Change in openstack/heat[master]: Implement a Heat-native resource group

2013-10-17 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Clint Byrum cl...@fewbar.com wrote on 10/17/2013 09:16:12 PM: Excerpts from Mike Spreitzer's message of 2013-10-17 17:19:58 -0700: What is the rationale for this new feature? Since there is already an autoscaling group implemented by Heat, what is the added benefit here? And why is it

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-19 Thread Mike Spreitzer
(I really do not understand how the archive is ordered. In the by-thread view, in which all messages with this subject are equally indented, the last message listed is not the chronologically last.) I see that components have parameters. In some uses (invocations) of components, parameters

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT Software configuration proposal

2013-10-21 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Steve Baker sba...@redhat.com wrote on 10/15/2013 06:48:53 PM: I've just written some proposals to address Heat's HOT software configuration needs, and I'd like to use this thread to get some feedback: https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Heat/Blueprints/hot-software-config

Re: [openstack-dev] [scheduler] APIs for Smart Resource Placement - Updated Instance Group Model and API extension model - WIP Draft

2013-10-22 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Yathiraj Udupi (yudupi) yud...@cisco.com wrote on 10/15/2013 03:08:32 AM: I have made some edits to the document: https://docs.google.com/ document/d/17OIiBoIavih-1y4zzK0oXyI66529f-7JTCVj-BcXURA/edit?pli=1# ... One other minor thing to discuss in the modeling is metadata. I am not eager

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] Network topologies [and more]

2013-10-28 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 10/28/2013 06:47:50 AM: On 27/10/13 16:37, Edgar Magana wrote: Heat Developers, I am one of the core developers for Neutron who is lately working on the concept of Network Topologies. I want to discuss with you if the following blueprint will

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] Comments on Steve Baker's Proposal on HOT Software Config

2013-10-28 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Steve Baker sba...@redhat.com wrote on 10/28/2013 04:24:30 PM: On 10/29/2013 02:53 AM, Steven Hardy wrote: ... Can anyone provide me with a clear argument for what the fundamental differences actually are? ... Since writing those proposals my thinking has evolved too. I'm currently

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][scheduler] Instance Group Model and APIs - Updated document with an example request payload

2013-10-29 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Alex Glikson glik...@il.ibm.com wrote on 10/29/2013 03:37:41 AM: 1. I assume that the motivation for rack-level anti-affinity is to survive a rack failure. Is this indeed the case? This is a very interesting and important scenario, but I am curious about your assumptions regarding all the

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][scheduler] Instance Group Model and APIs - Updated document with an example request payload

2013-10-29 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Khanh-Toan Tran khanh-toan.t...@cloudwatt.com wrote on 10/29/2013 09:10:00 AM: ... 1) Member of a group is recursive. A member can be group or an instance. In this case there are two different declaration formats for members, as with http-server-group-1 (name, policy, edge) and

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][scheduler] Instance Group Model and APIs - Updated document with an example request payload

2013-10-29 Thread Mike Spreitzer
John Garbutt j...@johngarbutt.com wrote on 10/29/2013 07:29:19 AM: ... Its looking good, but I was thinking about a slightly different approach: * I would like to see instance groups be used to describe all scheduler hints (including, please run on cell X, or please run on hypervisor Y) I

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][scheduler] Instance Group Model and APIs - Updated document with an example request payload

2013-10-29 Thread Mike Spreitzer
I should clarify my comment about invoking Heat to do the orchestration. I think we have a choice between designing a 1-stage API vs a 2-stage API. The 2-stage API goes like this: first the client defines the top-level group and everything inside it, then the client makes more calls to create

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][scheduler] Instance Group Model and APIs - Updated document with an example request payload

2013-10-29 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Following is my reaction to the last few hours of discussion. Russell Bryant wrote Nova calling heat to orchestrate Nova seems fundamentally wrong. I am not totally happy about this either, but would you be OK with Nova orchestrating Nova? To me, that seems worse --- duplicating

Re: [openstack-dev] [OpenStack-dev][Nova][Discussion]Blueprint : Auto VM Discovery in OpenStack for existing workload

2013-10-30 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Swapnil Kulkarni swapnilkulkarni2...@gmail.com wrote on 10/30/2013 02:36:37 AM: I had a discussion with russellb regarding this for yesterday, I would like to discuss this with the team regarding the blueprint mentioned in subject.

Re: [openstack-dev] [OpenStack-dev][Nova][Discussion]Blueprint : Auto VM Discovery in OpenStack for existing workload

2013-10-30 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Daniel P. Berrange berra...@redhat.com wrote on 10/30/2013 12:38:21 PM: ... This avoids any need to deal with the hard problems of adopting arbitrary VMs. Sorry, my writing was unclear. I did not mean another use case for adopting VMs; I mean another use case for VM discovery. Regards,

Re: [openstack-dev] [nova][scheduler] Instance Group Model and APIs - Updated document with an example request payload

2013-10-30 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Alex Glikson glik...@il.ibm.com wrote on 10/30/2013 02:26:08 AM: Mike Spreitzer mspre...@us.ibm.com wrote on 30/10/2013 06:11:04 AM: Date: 30/10/2013 06:12 AM Alex also wrote: ``I wonder whether it is possible to find an approach that takes into account cross-resource placement

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] Locking and ZooKeeper - a space oddysey

2013-10-30 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Clint Byrum cl...@fewbar.com wrote on 10/30/2013 01:42:53 PM: ... The engine should store _all_ of its state in a distributed data store of some kind. Any engine should be aware of what is already happening with the stack from this state and act accordingly. That includes the engine

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] Comments on Steve Baker's Proposal on HOT Software Config

2013-10-30 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Lakshminaraya Renganarayana/Watson/IBM@IBMUS wrote on 10/30/2013 03:35:32 PM: Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 10/29/2013 08:46:21 AM: ... In this method (i.e. option (2) above) shouldn't we be building the dependency graph in Heat rather than running through them sequentially

[openstack-dev] [Nova] question about DB migration difficulty

2013-11-13 Thread Mike Spreitzer
This is a follow-up to the design summit discussion about DB migrations. There was concern about the undo-ability of some migrations. The specific example cited was removal of a column. Could that be done with the following three migrations, each undo-able? First, change the code to keep

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] HOT software configuration refined after design summit discussions

2013-11-14 Thread Mike Spreitzer
It seems to me we have been discussing a proposal whose write-up intertwines two ideas: (1) making software components look like resources, and (2) using nested stacks and environments to achieve the pattern of definitions and uses. The ideas are separable, and I think the discussion has sort

Re: [openstack-dev] [Nova] question about DB migration difficulty

2013-11-14 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Michael Still mi...@stillhq.com wrote on 11/13/2013 04:27:17 PM: ... This was actually discussed in the session as an example of how other projects handle these problems. Our concerns (IIRC) were that it would take even more patches to land, and each of those patches is quite hard to land in

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] rough draft of Heat autoscaling API

2013-11-15 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 11/14/2013 12:56:22 PM: ... My 2c: the way I designed the Heat API was such that extant stacks can be addressed uniquely by name. Humans are pretty good with names, not so much with 128 bit numbers. The consequences of this for the design were: -

[openstack-dev] [Nova] Does Nova really need an SQL database?

2013-11-18 Thread Mike Spreitzer
There were some concerns expressed at the summit about scheduler scalability in Nova, and a little recollection of Boris' proposal to keep the needed state in memory. I also heard one guy say that he thinks Nova does not really need a general SQL database, that a NOSQL database with a bit of

Re: [openstack-dev] [Heat] Continue discussing multi-region orchestration

2013-11-20 Thread Mike Spreitzer
Zane Bitter zbit...@redhat.com wrote on 11/15/2013 05:59:06 PM: On 15/11/13 22:17, Keith Bray wrote: The way I view 2 vs. 4 is that 2 is more complicated and you don't gain any benefit of availability. If, in 2, your global heat endpoint is down, you can't update the whole stack. You

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