from:"ryan_oracle"

I  know you can hint a fast full scan. I have run into cases lately where depending on 
circumstances Oracle will use an index, but use a sub-optimal type of index scan with 
dramatic differences in performances.

This is on 9.2. Any hints for forcing an 'index range scan'. Anything stronger than a 
'hint'. Something like 'do it because I said so'. 

This only happens occasionaly, so Id just like to know if it exists for future 
reference. 

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Re: RE: large pl/sql table sucking up all memory on a server

i know about the limit clause. I just want to keep someone else from bringing down an 
instance. 

I think Ill get a taser and fry the next person who does it. :)

 From: zhu chao [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/29 Mon PM 10:34:24 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: RE: large pl/sql table sucking up all memory on a server

 I think Unix Kernel parameter limit should help in this case. It can prevent 
 runaway process from consuming the whole machine resource.
 In most unix, there is kernel parameter(or ulimit) that restrict the maximum 
 heap/data segment size.And the parameter name depend on the OS.

 Also, as other guys said, in oracle, there is also work around. You can use 
 limit clause of bulk collect. Feature should be properly used.

 Regards
 Zhu Chao.

 - Original Message - 
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 1:34 AM

  we dont have that level of granularity. everyone developers out of the same DBA 
  account(not my call).

  any parameter settings to limit the size of pl/sql tables? 

   From: Jamadagni, Rajendra [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Date: 2003/12/29 Mon PM 12:14:24 EST
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject: RE: large pl/sql table sucking up all memory on a server

   Assign the developer a profile  that would do good.

   Raj

   Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
   All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
   QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !

   -Original Message-
   Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 12:00 PM
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

   One of our guys used a very large bulk collect into with a forall update. It 
   sucked up all the swap space on our solaris box and noone could connect to it. 
   So we had to bounce the server. 

   I was under the impression that pl/sql tables go into the buffer cache and 
   cannot go large than its size? Oracle typically holds your hand with memory 
   usage issues. Are there any parameter settings I can use that limit the size of 
   pl/sql tables? 

   Or are they just dynamic arrays that can grow as large as you want.

   I know your supposed to use a 'limit' command on them. I didnt write it. I  just 
   dont want it to happen again. 

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help with estimate row count from asktom

I have a very strict SLA and I posted a question on asktom about the best way to get 
the 'estimate' of rows and return it to the user. Im getting 'no data found'. anyone 
have ideas? Im on 9.2, tables are analyzed, and Im in a DBA account. 

my question is at the bottom.

http://asktom.oracle.com/pls/ask/f?p=4950:8:352052922015846036::NO::F4950_P8_DISPLAYID,F4950_P8_CRITERIA:1933814740032,

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Re: Re: help with estimate row count from asktom

im concerned about hitting the v$views in production. we have 30,000 users. its either
that or do counts. Its a requirement from the users.

not sure what to do. doesnt tom kyte do this on asktom?

From: Wolfgang Breitling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2003/12/30 Tue PM 12:09:33 EST
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: help with estimate row count from asktom

v$sql_plan_statistics (and consequently v$sql_plan_statistics_all) only
have data to show if statistics_level is set to ALL. You can set that at
the session level.
Has anyone done measurements on a busy system to evaluate what the impact
is of setting that system-wide. The impression I have is that it is not
something I want to set in production all the time.

At 08:39 AM 12/30/2003, you wrote:
I have a very strict SLA and I posted a question on asktom about the best
way to get the 'estimate' of rows and return it to the user. Im getting
'no data found'. anyone have ideas? Im on 9.2, tables are analyzed, and Im
in a DBA account.

my question is at the bottom.

http://asktom.oracle.com/pls/ask/f?p=4950:8:352052922015846036::NO::F4950_P8_DISPLAYID,F4950_P8_CRITERIA:1933814740032,

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Wolfgang Breitling
Oracle7, 8, 8i, 9i OCP DBA
Centrex Consulting Corporation
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Re: Re: help with estimate row count from asktom

anyone have a better way to do this? im going to post what you said wolfgang on asktom
and see what he has to say.

From: Wolfgang Breitling [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2003/12/30 Tue PM 12:09:33 EST
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: help with estimate row count from asktom

my question is at the bottom.

http://asktom.oracle.com/pls/ask/f?p=4950:8:352052922015846036::NO::F4950_P8_DISPLAYID,F4950_P8_CRITERIA:1933814740032,

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Wolfgang Breitling
Oracle7, 8, 8i, 9i OCP DBA
Centrex Consulting Corporation
http://www.centrexcc.com

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RE: Re: help with estimate row count from asktom

i could have swarn i read in multiple places that in a high transaction system hitting 
v$views repeatedly kills performance? causes excessive latching? 

ill have to test it to see if this is better than a count. Gonna be ugly either way. 

 From: Jamadagni, Rajendra [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/30 Tue PM 01:29:25 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: Re: help with estimate row count from asktom

 Don't be afraid to access  v$ views, just beware of the bug that throws a ora-600 
 when selecting 'filter_predicates' and 'access_predicates' under 9202. As a 
 workaround, don't select those two columns. If I were you, I'd make sure that users 
 are *very* clear that the number you are going to get is an 'ESTIMATE' only.

 We run with statistics_level=ALL, haven't seen any noticeable difference, YMMV.
 Raj

 Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
 All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
 QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2003 1:19 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 im concerned about hitting the v$views in production. we have 30,000 users. its 
 either that or do counts. Its a requirement from the users. not sure what to do. 
 doesnt tom kyte do this on asktom?

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Re: DBA Unemployment

that isnt a reliable statistic. doesnt track people forced to take low paying temp 
jobs either.

besides, anyone can tell you that the job market is bad, by just putting out a job ad. 
when you get 100-150 resumes for 1 job... its a tight labor market. 

 From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/29 Mon AM 09:09:25 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: DBA Unemployment

 The U.S. government now tracks DBA jobs as an employment category. There are
 75,610 people who call themselves DBAs and 6.46% are unemployed.
 Unfortunately they just started so we can't see what it was during the
 dot-com bust.

 http://informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=17100148

 Dennis Williams
 DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
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large pl/sql table sucking up all memory on a server

One of our guys used a very large bulk collect into with a forall update. It sucked up 
all the swap space on our solaris box and noone could connect to it. So we had to 
bounce the server. 

I was under the impression that pl/sql tables go into the buffer cache and cannot go 
large than its size? Oracle typically holds your hand with memory usage issues. Are 
there any parameter settings I can use that limit the size of pl/sql tables? 

Or are they just dynamic arrays that can grow as large as you want.

I know your supposed to use a 'limit' command on them. I didnt write it. I  just dont 
want it to happen again. 

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Re: A performance problem

the sqlnet is a network issue. talk to your SAs. is the other database on a different 
server? work from there.

your big one is your read. could mean your SGA is too small. is anything else running 
at this time? 

are you sure there is an equivalent amount of work to do? are you sure there isnt more 
data involved? 

do you have a previous statspack report to compare it to? 
you also need to run a 10046 trace on the queries involved and see what they are doing.

maybe the plan changed do to a change in data or you dont have accurate statistics or 
a parameter setting changed? 
 
 From: Potluri, Venu (CT Appl Suppt) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/29 Mon AM 11:44:24 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: A performance problem
 
 I have a performance issue in our 11.5.5 Oracle Apps production environment (Oracle 
 8.1.7.4). A concurrent job that feeds into another production envrironment (Oracle 
 9.2) and runs less than an hour
 typically suddenly took almost 20 hours to finish. The users are as expected up in 
 arms calling my head on a platter. I looked at the statspack report for the database 
 this job ran on.
 
 The Top5 Wait events were:
 
 Top 5 Wait Events
 ~ 
   
 Wait EventWaits   Time (cs)   % 
 Total Wt Time
 ---
 db file sequential read   15,978,336   5,809,277 
  57.28
 SQL*Net message from dblink   3,868   1,960,168  
  19.33
 db file scattered read  2,460,279  943,252   
9.30
 control file sequential read 907,148  300,572
2.96
 pipe put2,033  208,850   
2.06
   -
 - cs - centisecond -  100th of a second
 - ms - millisecond - 1000th of a second
 - ordered by wait time desc, waits desc (idle events last)
 
  
  Avg
   Total Wait
 wait  Waits
 Event WaitsTimeouts   Time (cs)(ms)  
  /txn
   -- --- -- 
 -
 db file sequential read   15,978,336   0  5,809,277  
 4970.3
 SQL*Net message from dblink 3,868 0   1,960,168   5068   
  0.2
 db file scattered read2,460,279 0 943,252
 4149.4
 control file sequential read  907,1480300,572
 355.1
 pipe put  2,033   2,032208,850  1027 
  0.1
 
 
 
 Breakdown of Wait time
 
 Event TimePercentage  Avg. Wait   Per 
 Execute Per User Call   Per Transaction 
 db file sequential read   5809277 60.16%  0.360.68   
  8.228762.11 
 SQL*Net message from dblink 1960168   20.30%  506.77  0.23   
  2.772956.51 
 db file scattered read943252  9.77%   0.380.11   
  1.341422.70 
 control file sequential read 300572   3.11%   0.330.04   
  0.43453.35 
 pipe put  208850  2.16%   102.73  0.02   
  0.30315.01
 
 Here are the top SQL statements ordered by physical reads per execute: (these two 
 happen to belong to this long running job)
 Statement ExecutesPhysical Reads  Reads/Execute   Hashs 
 Value % of Total
 INSERT INTO ML_MGMT_MCS_FEED SELECT /*+ ORDERED INDEX(MGNAL 
 ML_MGMT_DIST_NAT_AC_LKUP_X1) USE_MERGE(BAL) */SUBSTR(GLCC.SEGMENT3,1,6) 
 CENTER,SUBSTR(MGNAL.GL11PROD_ACCOUNT,1,5)
 ACCT,SUBSTR(GLCC.SEGMENT2,1,10) NEW10,SUBSTR(GLCC.SEGMENT6,1,6) 
 PRODUCT,SUBSTR(GLCC.SEGMENT5,1,4) TRANSTYPE,NVL(SUBSTR(MGNAL.GL11PROD_ACCOUNT,1,5
   13  9737644 749049.54   
 1419451399  30.18 
 SELECT DISTINCT 
 ENTITY,ACCOUNT,COST_CENTER,INTERCOMPANY,TRANSACTION_TYPE,PRODUCT,LOCATION,CHANNEL,FUTURE,PERIOD_NAME,SUM(BAL)
  BALAMOUNT,SUM(MTD) MTDAMOUNT FROM (SELECT DISTINCT
 ENTITY,ACCOUNT,COST_CENTER,INTERCOMPANY,TRANSACTION_TYPE,PRODUCT,LOCATION,CHANNEL,FUTURE,PERIOD_NAME,0
  BAL,(ABS(NVL(MTD_TRANSACTION_DR_AMOUNT
   30  5839191 194639.70   
 2733501134  48.27 
 
 I am not sure on how to

ref cursors and parsing

do ref cursors always do a hard parse? or can i get them to always do a soft parse? 

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Re: RE: large pl/sql table sucking up all memory on a server

we dont have that level of granularity. everyone developers out of the same DBA 
account(not my call).

any parameter settings to limit the size of pl/sql tables? 

 From: Jamadagni, Rajendra [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/29 Mon PM 12:14:24 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: large pl/sql table sucking up all memory on a server

 Assign the developer a profile  that would do good.

 Raj

 Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
 All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
 QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 12:00 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 One of our guys used a very large bulk collect into with a forall update. It sucked 
 up all the swap space on our solaris box and noone could connect to it. So we had to 
 bounce the server. 

 I was under the impression that pl/sql tables go into the buffer cache and cannot go 
 large than its size? Oracle typically holds your hand with memory usage issues. Are 
 there any parameter settings I can use that limit the size of pl/sql tables? 

 Or are they just dynamic arrays that can grow as large as you want.

 I know your supposed to use a 'limit' command on them. I didnt write it. I  just 
 dont want it to happen again. 

 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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Re: RE: large pl/sql table sucking up all memory on a server

3 million records in a forall statement. we are bringing on temps and you know how 
that goes... Im hoping I can set a parameter somewhere to keep anyone from bringing 
down a server.

such as 'memory for pl/sql table area limit hit' errors out what he is doing.

i guess not :(

 From: Khedr, Waleed [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/29 Mon PM 12:29:32 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: large pl/sql table sucking up all memory on a server

 Does he still have a job? :)

 Was it one session or many of them? How many rows got bulk processed?
 If it's one session that caused this, then it's either: vary badly designed,
 there is memory leak, or the system is already short in memory!

 Waleed

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 12:00 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 One of our guys used a very large bulk collect into with a forall update. It
 sucked up all the swap space on our solaris box and noone could connect to
 it. So we had to bounce the server. 

 I was under the impression that pl/sql tables go into the buffer cache and
 cannot go large than its size? Oracle typically holds your hand with memory
 usage issues. Are there any parameter settings I can use that limit the size
 of pl/sql tables? 

 Or are they just dynamic arrays that can grow as large as you want.

 I know your supposed to use a 'limit' command on them. I didnt write it. I
 just dont want it to happen again. 

 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: RE: large pl/sql table sucking up all memory on a server

it filled up the pga and then used 'swap' space on the hard drive. this filled up.

didnt realize this was a feature. yeah, I know i can 'tell' them to do it. I was 
hoping to disallow it though. 

 From: Bobak, Mark [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/29 Mon PM 01:24:25 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: large pl/sql table sucking up all memory on a server

 Ryan,

 First off, PL/SQL tables have nothing to do with the buffer cache.  The
 buffer cache is part of the SGA (shared memory) and is used to buffer
 blocks of database datafiles.  That's all that will ever be in the buffer
 cache.

 PL/SQL tables are memory constructs that are allocated from the PGA (process
 private memory).  When you connect to an instance, (in dedicated server mode)
 the background process on the server side that's allocated to serve your
 connection has memory associated w/ it.  That's your PGA (and UGA, for that
 matter.)

 The best way to deal with this is to educate the developers.  Teach them that
 the LIMIT clause is their friend.  Are you on 9i?  PGA_AGGREGATE_TARGET may
 help.  I'm not sure, I've never tried that experiment on 9i.  What happens
 when PGA memory demand due to PL/SQL tables exceeds PGA_AGGREGATE_TARGET?
 I'll have to try that test

 Anyhow, hope that helps,

 -Mark

 PS  In the future, if this happens again, you shouldn't have to bounce the 
 server.  Just kill the background process that's eating all the memory.
 When you do that, that developers session will die, and things should quickly
 return to normal.

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Mon 12/29/2003 11:59 AM
 To:   Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Cc:   
 Subject:  large pl/sql table sucking up all memory on a server
 One of our guys used a very large bulk collect into with a forall update. It sucked 
 up all the swap space on our solaris box and noone could connect to it. So we had to 
 bounce the server. 

 I was under the impression that pl/sql tables go into the buffer cache and cannot go 
 large than its size? Oracle typically holds your hand with memory usage issues. Are 
 there any parameter settings I can use that limit the size of pl/sql tables? 

 Or are they just dynamic arrays that can grow as large as you want.

 I know your supposed to use a 'limit' command on them. I didnt write it. I  just 
 dont want it to happen again. 

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Re: RE: A performance problem

you mean a dbms_job? 

execute immediate 'turn trace on'

inside what ever is being called. then check it. or just run it manually. 

 From: Potluri, Venu (CT Appl Suppt) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/29 Mon PM 01:09:29 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: A performance problem

 The other database in on a different server.

 I looked at the statspack report for the other database, for the time period in 
 question.

 Top 5 Timed Events
 ~~% Total
 Event   Waits Time (s)Ela 
 Time
   --- 
 ---
 db file sequential read   5,802,489   48,722  44.14
 free buffer waits 31,015  26,670  24.16
 db file parallel write 9,817  12,298  11.14
 CPU time  7,020   6.36
 write complete waits   6,301  5,584   5.06

 We do have increase in amount of data but not enought to account for a 20-hour run. 

 I am looking at the statspack report during the times this job previoulsy ran.

 How do I enable 10046 trace for sql executed by a concurrent job? I do have a trace 
 file for this job but it was obtained by turning trace on in Oracle Apps for this 
 job and doesn't contain any wait
 event information.

 -Original Message-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 12:09 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 the sqlnet is a network issue. talk to your SAs. is the other database on a 
 different server? work from there.

 your big one is your read. could mean your SGA is too small. is anything else 
 running at this time? 

 are you sure there is an equivalent amount of work to do? are you sure there isnt 
 more data involved? 

 do you have a previous statspack report to compare it to? 
 you also need to run a 10046 trace on the queries involved and see what they are 
 doing.

 maybe the plan changed do to a change in data or you dont have accurate statistics 
 or a parameter setting changed? 

  From: Potluri, Venu (CT Appl Suppt) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: 2003/12/29 Mon AM 11:44:24 EST
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: A performance problem

  I have a performance issue in our 11.5.5 Oracle Apps production environment 
  (Oracle 8.1.7.4). A concurrent job that feeds into another production envrironment 
  (Oracle 9.2) and runs less than an hour
  typically suddenly took almost 20 hours to finish. The users are as expected up in 
  arms calling my head on a platter. I looked at the statspack report for the 
  database this job ran on.

  The Top5 Wait events were:

  Top 5 Wait Events
  ~ 

  Wait Event  Waits   Time (cs)   % 
  Total Wt Time
  ---
  db file sequential read 15,978,336   5,809,277 
   57.28
  SQL*Net message from dblink 3,868   1,960,168  
   19.33
  db file scattered read  2,460,279  943,252 
 9.30
  control file sequential read 907,148  300,572  
 2.96
  pipe put2,033  208,850 
 2.06
-
  - cs - centisecond -  100th of a second
  - ms - millisecond - 1000th of a second
  - ordered by wait time desc, waits desc (idle events last)

   Avg
  Total 
  Waitwait  Waits
  Event   WaitsTimeouts   Time (cs)
  (ms)   /txn
    -- --- -- 
  -
  db file sequential read 15,978,336   0  5,809,277  
  4970.3
  SQL*Net message from dblink 3,868   0   1,960,168   5068   
   0.2
  db file scattered read  2,460,279 0 943,252
  4149.4
  control file sequential read907,1480300,572
  355.1
  pipe put2,033   2,032208,850  
  1027  0.1

  Breakdown of Wait time

  Event   TimePercentage  Avg. Wait   Per 
  Execute Per User Call   Per

Re: RE: A performance problem

go to metalink and get 'trace analyzer' read the install instructions. It will extract 
wait events from your output.

if your in 9i and up wait events are in the tkprof. i think you have to do a 10046 
trace to get the wait events? not just a sql_trace. 

 From: Potluri, Venu (CT Appl Suppt) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/29 Mon PM 01:14:34 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: A performance problem

 John,

 I can run this in our development environment and trace the job. But, the data is 
 quite a bit larger in production. I can't really take on a refresh/clone now and the 
 prodcution database is over 600GB
 in size. We do have trace for the job which was available because the program 
 definition for this custom feed job has trace enabled in Apps. That trace file 
 doesn't have any wait event information.
 This job does use db link. We know that for sure. I advised the developer who wrote 
 this custom feed job to tune it but that is never a satisfactory answer for them.

 Venu Potluri

 -Original Message-
 John Kanagaraj
 Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 12:35 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 Venu,

 Trying to solve the performance issue with a *single* job with Statspack is
 like searching for a needle in a haystack, especially in an Oracle Apps
 environment. You will need to trace the program *as it runs*, and if you
 cannot do that right now, see if you can clone the database to a test system
 and rerun it again. Btw, was this concurrent job an Oracle standard job or
 was it a custom program? Any recent changes or patches to the environment?
 Note that you *can* set trace (albeit just the plain vanilla level 1) on a
 Concurrent job in 11i... As for the DB Link, can you determine if this
 indeed does use a Dblink or it is from somewhere else... [See the problem
 with Statspack?!]

 John Kanagaraj
 DB Soft Inc
 Phone: 408-970-7002 (W)

 Grace - Getting something we do NOT deserve
 Mercy - NOT getting something we DO deserve
 Click on 'http://www.needhim.org' for Grace and Mercy that is freely
 available!

 ** The opinions and facts contained in this message are entirely mine and do
 not reflect those of my employer or customers **

 -Original Message-
 From: Potluri, Venu (CT Appl Suppt) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 8:44 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: A performance problem

 I have a performance issue in our 11.5.5 Oracle Apps 
 production environment (Oracle 8.1.7.4). A concurrent job that 
 feeds into another production envrironment (Oracle 9.2) and 
 runs less than an hour
 typically suddenly took almost 20 hours to finish. The users 
 are as expected up in arms calling my head on a platter. I 
 looked at the statspack report for the database this job ran on.

 The Top5 Wait events were:

 Top 5 Wait Events
 ~ 

 Wait Event   Waits   
 Time (cs)% Total Wt Time
 ---

 db file sequential read  15,978,336  
  5,809,277   57.28
 SQL*Net message from dblink  3,868   
 1,960,16819.33
 db file scattered read  2,460,279  
 943,2529.30
 control file sequential read 907,148   
300,572 2.96
 pipe put2,033  
 208,8502.06
   -
 - cs - centisecond -  100th of a second
 - ms - millisecond - 1000th of a second
 - ordered by wait time desc, waits desc (idle events last)

  Avg

  Total Waitwait  Waits
 EventWaitsTimeouts   
 Time (cs)(ms)/txn
   -- 
 --- -- -
 db file sequential read  15,978,336   0  
  5,809,277  4970.3
 SQL*Net message from dblink 3,8680   
 1,960,168   5068 0.2
 db file scattered read   2,460,279 0 
  943,2524149.4
 control file sequential read 907,1480
  300,572355.1
 pipe put 2,033   2,032   
  208,850  1027   0.1

 Breakdown of Wait time

 EventTimePercentage  Avg. 
 Wait Per Execute Per User Call   Per Transaction 
 db file sequential read  5809277 60.16%  
 0.36

getting estimate of result set from v$sql_plan

can someone send me the query I use to hit v$sql_plan to get my estimated cardinality 
for a query? 

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Re: Re: getting estimate of result set from v$sql_plan

i need to return the cardinality estimate to the user as a number. how do i do that? 

 From: Stephane Faroult [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/29 Mon PM 04:29:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: getting estimate of result set from v$sql_plan

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  can someone send me the query I use to hit v$sql_plan to get my estimated 
  cardinality for a query?

 @$ORACLE_HOME/rdbms/admin/utlxpls.sql
 or
 $ORACLE_HOME/rdbms/admin/utlxplp.sql if you have parallelism.
 -- 
 Regards,

 Stephane Faroult
 Oriole Software
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Re: RE: Database Instance

i believe tom kyte recommends putting them in one or a few instances and using VPD to 
handle security. He claims it scales better. I believe its in his second book and on 
his website.

However, Thomas is right. You really dont want 13 instances together for maintenance 
reasons. Some may need different parameter settings. 

Are you sure your server can handle all those instances? That could be alot of work 
for one server. I know the trend these days(and we do it) is get 1 powerful server and 
load it with instances to save on oracle's obscene licensing fees.

Best thing to do is possibly analyze how the instances are used and combine them into 
groups of instances. 

Your manager sounds like an idiot. What he should do is the following. 

Manager: 'DBA, what are the pros and cons of putting all instances into one database? 
Please research and get back to me. Also, if we decide to combine them, please write 
up testing scenarios so we can adequately test this approach before implementing it.'

Then he makes a decision. No patience for know it all managers. They cause so many 
problems. 
 
 From: Thomas Day [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/26 Fri AM 08:44:25 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: Database Instance
 
 
 We have 13 databases (and instances) of approximately 17G each on a
 RISC/6000.  We have 6 database/instances on a Win2K box.  Two of those are
 in the 17G range but the rest are smaller.  But it's not the disk size
 that's important, it's the SGA size.
 
 
 
  
   
   Kean Jacinta   
   
   jacintakean To:  Multiple recipients of list 
 ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   @yahoo.com  cc:   
   
   Sent by: Subject: RE: Database Instance
   
   ml-errors  
   
  
   
  
   
   12/26/2003 01:59   
   
   AM 
   
   Please respond 
   
   to ORACLE-L
   
  
   
  
   
 
 
 
 
 Dear :All
 
 Well we did not buy any application packages.
 Currently  we are using open source product ...which
 is Apache and Tomcat.
 
 By the way, have anyone ever have more than 5 database
 under a single server ? I heard that the best practice
 is to have 1 database n 1 application in a single
 server. Is that true ?
 
 Thank
 JKean
 
 --- Mercadante, Thomas F
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  I would be very careful about doing this if you have
  purchased application
  packages.  Sooner or later, you will want to upgrade
  one of the packages,
  and it will require a different release of Oracle -
  and you will be stuck.
 
 
  Tom Mercadante
  Oracle Certified Professional
 
  -Original Message-
  Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2003 11:24 AM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
  One other disadvantage of putting all instances
  together is if you need to
  say bounce the database (for parameter change or
  other maintenance  etc)
  then all other applications will get affected.
  Whereas with separate
  instances other applications will not get affected.
 
  To some extent one application failing will not
  affect other applications.
  Except if one application does not close its
  connections then it could lead
  to maximum connections (sessions) being reached and
  affecting other
  applications.
 
  If the nature of the applications is different :
  OLTP, warehousing then you
  cannot really tune the parameters.
 
  On the positive side I think putting instances

please help with materialized view question

Im sure its a privilege issue. 

1. I have 3 tables with two different owners
2. I want to create a materialized join view of these tables in a 3rd user account. 
3. I altered the session to enable query rewrite and query_rewrite_integrity=trusted
4. I granted query rewrite enabled to every owner involved. 
5. I can create the materialized view, if I do not join them to one of the owners or 
leave off 'query rewrite enabled.

Here is what I get.

create materialized view test
build immediate
refresh on demand
enable query rewrite
as 
select columns
from user1.table1,
 user1.table2,
 user2.table3
where table1.pk = table2.pk
  and table2.pk = table3.pk

ERROR at line 9:
ORA-00942: table or view does not exist

I have all privileges on this table otherwise. I can do a select, describe, create 
materialized view without query rewrite

I take out 'query rewrite enabled' and it works.

I have granted query rewrite enabled to the user in question 

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Re: please help with materialized view question

I figured it out. 

I have another problem. I create my materialized view. I now want to write a query 
that joins it to a transactional table. I want to use query rewrite. Problem is the 
join is not on the primary key of either table. 

Is it possible to enable query rewrite without that? I have it in trusted mode? 

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Re: Re: please help with materialized view question

I figured it out. I need some help with query re-write. Im not sure its possible.

My materialized view joins 3 tables on the primary key/foreign key. I have a query 
that would join that materialized view to a third transactional table, but that join 
is not on any primary key or foreign key. 

I cant get it to re-write my query. My query joins 4 tables. 3 are in the materialized 
view. One is not. 

is this possible? 

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Re: Re: please help with materialized view question

my bad on the explanation.

I have 4 tables. 3 are non-transactional. These are joined in a primary key/foreign
key relationship. These are going in the materialized view.

I want to join my 4th table to my materialized view.

1. The application current has code that joins all 4 tables. I dont know if they will
re-write this.

2. The refresh on that materialized view is possibly time consuming. Im worried about
stale data. I want oracle to determine if its stale or not. If I explicitly hit the
materialized view, I have to handle that with code. We do nightly data loads, then the
materialized view needs to be reloaded. This could take a little while.

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2003/12/26 Fri PM 02:09:27 EST
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: please help with materialized view question

Warning: I have not actually used query rewrite in this way, so take this
with a grain of salt.

If you're joining the MV directly to a table, what is there to rewrite?

If you were joining the tables that make up the MV, and doing so
on the same key that was used to create the MV, and joining
that result to a transactional table, it would make sense to use
query rewrite.

Based on your statement though, I don't see the need.

Clarification?

Jared

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12/26/2003 10:44 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L

To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:Re: please help with materialized view question

I figured it out.

I have another problem. I create my materialized view. I now want to write
a query that joins it to a transactional table. I want to use query
rewrite. Problem is the join is not on the primary key of either table.

Is it possible to enable query rewrite without that? I have it in trusted
mode?

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--
Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Warning: I have not actually used query rewrite in this way, so take this
with a grain of salt.

If you're joining the MV directly to a table, what is there to rewrite?

Based on your statement though, I don't see the need.

Clarification?

Jared

[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12/26/2003 10:44 AM
Please respond to ORACLE-L

To:Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
cc:
Subject:Re: please help with materialized view question

I figured it out.

I have another problem. I create my materialized view. I now want to write a query that joins it to a transactional table. I want to use query rewrite. Problem is the join is not on the primary key of either table.

Is it possible to enable query rewrite without that? I have it in trusted mode?

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Re: RE: Hit Ratio

2003-12-23 Thread ryan_oracle

are there really that many people who use hit ratio? 

 From: Cary Millsap [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/23 Tue AM 11:49:33 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: Hit Ratio

 Yong,

 Connor's script is not a joke, it's a proof by counterexample that the
 advice You SQL is tuned if and only if it has a high hit ratio is
 rubbish.

 The buffer cache hit ratio is a tool. Used properly, nobody's objecting.
 It's proper use? To answer the question, What percentage of LIO calls
 can be satisfied without an OS read call? The correct point that many
 on this list make over and over again, is that this is often the wrong
 question to be asking. (And actually, the conventional BCHR=(L-P)/L
 formula doesn't answer that question very well anyway; see Steve Adams's
 site for more detail.)

 It's not the ratio that needs condemning, it's the advice about how to
 use the ratio. The ratio just happens to be the emblem on the flag.

 Cary Millsap
 Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
 http://www.hotsos.com

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 - Performance Diagnosis 101: 1/27 Atlanta
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 - Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
 - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...

 -Original Message-
 Yong Huang
 Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 9:29 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 Hi, Carel-Jan and Rich,

 Connor's script to bump up buffer cache hit ratios is meant to be a
 humor. Only
 if you carefully comtemplate it will you see that there's no relevance
 of the
 fact that you can get any hit ratio to the fact that hit ratios are
 insufficient in performance tuning.

 It would be equally easy to write scripts to bump up some wait event
 times. If
 you need very long db file reads, create a big table and keep scanning
 it. If
 you need long enqueue waits, create a table and insert a row. Create 10
 or 100
 sessions (depending on your patience) and delete from that table and
 wait. The
 fact that you can get arbitary wait times does not reduce the efficacy
 of wait
 event interface as a performance tuning tool.

 Buffer cache or library cache hit ratios are not sufficient, very
 insufficient
 used alone, to tune the database. The reason is that they don't contain
 enough
 information to tune the system with. This is the only reason we should
 not
 solely rely on them; in fact, not using them at all doesn't hurt much.
 The
 reason is not that we can get any value we want by playing pranks.

 Hit ratios are still used in other performance tuning and not condemned.
 Although in UNIX performance tuning one looks at absolute numbers such
 as scan
 rate, CPU usage and netstat output more often, hit ratios in some sar
 output
 are still occasionally used. Most ratios could still be distored by a
 rogue
 user repeatedly doing, say, find / for inodes or find / -exec grep
 SomeThing
 {} \; for page cache.

 In any tuning practice, Oracle or OS, artificially distorting usage
 patterns
 invalidates your numbers even if you're using a well respected tuning
 method.
 So only play pranks on a play box, not production.

 Yong Huang

 At 11:14 22-12-03 -0800, you wrote:
 My BCHR is currently 96.62%.  In the past, it was normally over 99%.
 What
 should I do?

 I'll be waiting for Mladen's reply...  :)

 Rich

 Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA

 Go to www.oracledba.co.uk (Connor) or go to O'Reilly (download page of 
 Cary's book), and download one of the fabulous BCHR enhancement scripts.

 Especially when your bonus depends on it, this is a good time to perform

 some BCHR tuning.

 Regards, Carel-Jan

 __
 Do you Yahoo!?
 New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
 http://photos.yahoo.com/
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does CPU usage matter when scaling?

2003-12-23 Thread ryan_oracle

The softwrae engineers are measuring CPU usage. I usually ignore this and dont care 
about that value. I dont have any docs on it. anyone have any docs on this? or am I 
wrong? 

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Re: RE: does CPU usage matter when scaling?

2003-12-23 Thread ryan_oracle

the cpu right now is high because they are not-using bind variables. Which is being 
fixed. So I was ignoring CPU usage. 

Ive read that article. I dont remember any CPU material in there. I just focused on 
LIOs and didnt realize I needed to monitor CPU. However, high LIOs will lead to high 
CPU right? So in order to tune, wouldnt I concentrate on lowering LIOs and as a result 
that will bring down CPUs. I take CPU as a consequence of something, but not as a 
means to an ends.

or am I wrong here? 
 
 From: Cary Millsap [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/23 Tue PM 01:59:32 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: does CPU usage matter when scaling?
 
 Ryan,
 
 Take a look at Why you should focus on LIOs instead of PIOs at
 www.hotsos.com/e-library. If you have access to the book Optimizing
 Oracle Performance, check out chapter 9.
 
 If an application is written not to crash into some kind of
 serialization barrier (latch free, enqueue, etc.), then the thing it
 *should* get stuck spending most of its time doing is consuming CPU
 service. Applications that consume less CPU service scale better than
 apps that consume more. I would then say that it's FANTASTIC that your
 software engineers are looking at CPU consumption as they design, build,
 and test their code.
 
 
 Cary Millsap
 Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
 http://www.hotsos.com
 
 Upcoming events:
 - Performance Diagnosis 101: 1/27 Atlanta
 - SQL Optimization 101: 2/16 Dallas
 - Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
 - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...
 
 
 -Original Message-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2003 12:39 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 The softwrae engineers are measuring CPU usage. I usually ignore this
 and dont care about that value. I dont have any docs on it. anyone have
 any docs on this? or am I wrong? 
 
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ASM question

I decided to play around with ASMs and use the statspack tablespace as my trial 
balloons(lots of inserts and deletes and I dont care about fragmentation).

anyway I just ran SPCREATE. Wierd thing is that there is no data in any of my 
statspack tables, but their segments sizes vary from 1m to 5m???

any idea why? There has never been any data inserted in them. I just created the 
tablespace and ran spcreate? 

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Re: ASM question

hmmm... odd

there is no setting for pct_used on tables, but different settings for percent free. 
Different settings for initial extent to between tables.

anyone have more info on how this 'intelligent' algorithm works? I heard kyte speak 
last week and he assured us that the algorithm is good and there is only 'irrelevant' 
fragmentation. I dont want to use it in production until I understand it better. 
 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/22 Mon AM 09:09:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: ASM question
 
 I decided to play around with ASMs and use the statspack tablespace as my trial 
 balloons(lots of inserts and deletes and I dont care about fragmentation).
 
 anyway I just ran SPCREATE. Wierd thing is that there is no data in any of my 
 statspack tables, but their segments sizes vary from 1m to 5m???
 
 any idea why? There has never been any data inserted in them. I just created the 
 tablespace and ran spcreate? 
 
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Re: ASM question

ignore spcreate.sql actually puts pctfree,pctused, and really bad initial and next 
extent settings on the tables. its an antiquated script that hasnt been updated. 

my bad. 

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/22 Mon AM 09:09:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: ASM question

 I decided to play around with ASMs and use the statspack tablespace as my trial 
 balloons(lots of inserts and deletes and I dont care about fragmentation).

 anyway I just ran SPCREATE. Wierd thing is that there is no data in any of my 
 statspack tables, but their segments sizes vary from 1m to 5m???

 any idea why? There has never been any data inserted in them. I just created the 
 tablespace and ran spcreate? 

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Re: Exporting a partition with transport tablespace

transportable tablespaces need to be totally self-contained. everything that is being 
transported has to be in that tablespace. it doesnt matter if its a different 
datafile. 

you probably have your partitions in seperate tablespaces? or am i wrong? 
 
 From: NGUYEN Philippe (Cetelem) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/22 Mon AM 10:34:25 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Exporting a partition with transport tablespace
 
 Hi list,
 is it possible to export a partition with the transportable tablespace
 feature ?
 My partition is over 8 Go.
 
 Here my statements , thank you in advance !
 
 SQLexec sys.dbms_tts.transport_set_check('HISTO_DOSSIER_P1_MD_TAB',FALSE);
 SQL select * from sys.transport_set_violations;
 
 VIOLATIONS
 
 
 Partitioned table TOPASE.HISTO_DOSSIER is partially contained in the
 transportab
 le set: check table partitions by querying sys.dba_tab_partitions
 
 Default Partition (Table) Tablespace HISTO_DOSSIER_P2_MD_TAB for
 HISTO_DOSSIER n
 ot contained in transportable set
 
 Default Partition (Table) Tablespace HISTO_DOSSIER_P3_MD_TAB for
 HISTO_DOSSIER n
 ot contained in transportable set
 
 Default Partition (Table) Tablespace HISTO_DOSSIER_P4_MD_TAB for
 HISTO_DOSSIER n
 ot contained in transportable set
 
 
Title: Exporting a partition with transport tablespace





Hi list,
is it possible to export a partition with the transportable tablespace feature ?
My partition is over 8 Go.


Here my statements , thank you in advance !


SQLexec sys.dbms_tts.transport_set_check('HISTO_DOSSIER_P1_MD_TAB',FALSE);
SQL select * from sys.transport_set_violations;


VIOLATIONS

Partitioned table TOPASE.HISTO_DOSSIER is partially contained in the transportab
le set: check table partitions by querying sys.dba_tab_partitions


Default Partition (Table) Tablespace HISTO_DOSSIER_P2_MD_TAB for HISTO_DOSSIER n
ot contained in transportable set


Default Partition (Table) Tablespace HISTO_DOSSIER_P3_MD_TAB for HISTO_DOSSIER n
ot contained in transportable set


Default Partition (Table) Tablespace HISTO_DOSSIER_P4_MD_TAB for HISTO_DOSSIER n
ot contained in transportable set

Re: Exporting a partition with transport tablespace

wait or are you just trying to transport 1 partition? 

i think you have to do regular export and import. 
 
 From: NGUYEN Philippe (Cetelem) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/22 Mon AM 10:34:25 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Exporting a partition with transport tablespace
 
 Hi list,
 is it possible to export a partition with the transportable tablespace
 feature ?
 My partition is over 8 Go.
 
 Here my statements , thank you in advance !
 
 SQLexec sys.dbms_tts.transport_set_check('HISTO_DOSSIER_P1_MD_TAB',FALSE);
 SQL select * from sys.transport_set_violations;
 
 VIOLATIONS
 
 
 Partitioned table TOPASE.HISTO_DOSSIER is partially contained in the
 transportab
 le set: check table partitions by querying sys.dba_tab_partitions
 
 Default Partition (Table) Tablespace HISTO_DOSSIER_P2_MD_TAB for
 HISTO_DOSSIER n
 ot contained in transportable set
 
 Default Partition (Table) Tablespace HISTO_DOSSIER_P3_MD_TAB for
 HISTO_DOSSIER n
 ot contained in transportable set
 
 Default Partition (Table) Tablespace HISTO_DOSSIER_P4_MD_TAB for
 HISTO_DOSSIER n
 ot contained in transportable set
 
 
Title: Exporting a partition with transport tablespace





Hi list,
is it possible to export a partition with the transportable tablespace feature ?
My partition is over 8 Go.


Here my statements , thank you in advance !


SQLexec sys.dbms_tts.transport_set_check('HISTO_DOSSIER_P1_MD_TAB',FALSE);
SQL select * from sys.transport_set_violations;


VIOLATIONS

Partitioned table TOPASE.HISTO_DOSSIER is partially contained in the transportab
le set: check table partitions by querying sys.dba_tab_partitions


Default Partition (Table) Tablespace HISTO_DOSSIER_P2_MD_TAB for HISTO_DOSSIER n
ot contained in transportable set


Default Partition (Table) Tablespace HISTO_DOSSIER_P3_MD_TAB for HISTO_DOSSIER n
ot contained in transportable set


Default Partition (Table) Tablespace HISTO_DOSSIER_P4_MD_TAB for HISTO_DOSSIER n
ot contained in transportable set

Re: RE: Hit Ratio

i dont think many people are using bchr anymore. I think its been talked down to 
death. only place I hear about it is offshore. people still using the old niemic book. 
his new took all that stuff out.

or am i wrong? 

 From: Jesse, Rich [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/22 Mon PM 02:14:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: Hit Ratio

 My BCHR is currently 96.62%.  In the past, it was normally over 99%.  What
 should I do?

 I'll be waiting for Mladen's reply...  :)

 Rich

 Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 10:14 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 As a friendly reminder, when debunking myths, I suggest we keep sober and
 never
 go overboard. The recently popular formula to get an arbitrary hit ratio is
 not
 what a database in normal usage naturally gets. Unless a mischievous
 developer
 plays a prank, hit ratios are still useful to some extent in checking
 database
 health, although other indicators such as wait events should be given a
 greater
 weight.

 Yong Huang
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stress tests for a scale to 30,000 users

My estimate right now is about a 500GB instance(but could grow).  There are several 
complexities.

1. high transaction system, but also will have alot of long running queries

2. We deliver data daily and rebuild large parts of the database nightly with loads. 
Im not certain I have the window to analyze every index or get histograms on all the 
tables. There are VERY large data loads and deliveries. Data has to be delivered by a 
certain time and we get data feeds from other groups. I cannot control when we recieve 
data to load. 

3. We will not be actively managing the production server. Its going to be delivered 
as an off the shelf product. I do not know what statistics ill be allowed to have for 
security reasons(this is not govenment stuff so dont worry about what I say). Its up 
to the client. 

4. We are using web server level connection pooling so tracing isnt very useful. 

Im essentially the lone performance guy on the team. Ive never done a scale up this 
large, or with this many complexities. We just managed to convince them to use bind 
variables... but they haven't been implemented yet. 

Im having trouble getting accurate test cases. This is what I am 'attempting' to do at 
first. Please let me know if my approach is accurate.

1. Find out which queries will be run the most. Are there things people will do in the 
mornings, but not in the afternoon(so far its 'dunno'). 

2. Hopefully, I can get a hold of either the use cases or 'preferebly' test cases, so 
we can design our stress tests around actual user processes. All they are doing now is 
opening up 50+ users and running queries in loops. 

What other approach should I take to get started. Im rather troubled by this... 

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10g new features question for beta testers

I saw a presentation from Oracle on 10g new features last night in Reston,VA. I know 
atleast one other person from the list was there. Since Oracle is releasing details 
and its going to be released(in theory) in the next 2 weeks, I was wondering if you 
guys could talk about it.

1. does ASMs work as well as Oracle claims? I always wonder about first generation 
features... takes most software vendors a couple of generations to get it right(takes 
any project Im on just as long). This is a radical departure.

for those of you who dont know. Oracle claims that they will manage your disks for 
you. All you do is give Oracle some Raw Disks and Oracle will set up, and handle all 
your datafiles. All you do is look at logical tablespaces. It will also handle I/O 
balancing. 

How well does this work? Anyone test it with a SAN? 


2. RAC Load Balancing. Oracle claims that you only need Oracle software from now on. 
They also claim that you can load balance multiple applications. Lets say you have One 
application that runs batch loads over night and a transactional application during 
the day oracle will automatically steal resources from the other when its not 
busy...

anyone test this? 


3. Flashback database. Kyte was the presenter and he said that you can keep massive 
undo areas, so that if you have a failure or delete data you shouldnt have you can 
have oracle automatically write the DML necessary to bring it back to any point in 
time. Kyte said that regular EIDE hard drives that you put in home PCs are plenty fast 
enough for most systems. He recommends getting 4 300 GB drives(1.2 TBs) for about 
$1400 to do this and to make tape backups off of this since they are really slow.

Can any beta testers comment? 

Im pleased with the rename tablespace feature... that way I dont have to update TS$ 
anymore... I wonder if it was our complaining that got them to add it :)

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Re: RE: 10g new features question for beta testers

no ASMs are considerably different. Its supposed to manage everything. You dont give 
it a file, you give it entire disks and oracle does everything. Sets up files, 
manages, I/O, everything.

you only look at the tablespace level. you dont even install any software on it. If 
your on SAN, you dont install SAN software on it. 

 From: Goulet, Dick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/19 Fri AM 09:14:27 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: 10g new features question for beta testers

 That is not exactly a new feature.  Oracle 9i has Oracle Managed Files where you 
 give it a directory and then just build tablespaces.  The database picks the 
 filenames for you.  Now mind you it does work, but I'll be damned if I use it in 
 anything other than a development environment.  For some reason Oracle has never 
 gotten over that DUMB SAME (Stripe And Mirror Everything) idea.  The concept is 
 great in theory, but in practice it's absolutely abysmal at best.

 Dick Goulet
 Senior Oracle DBA
 Oracle Certified 8i DBA

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 8:24 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 I saw a presentation from Oracle on 10g new features last night in Reston,VA. I know 
 atleast one other person from the list was there. Since Oracle is releasing details 
 and its going to be released(in theory) in the next 2 weeks, I was wondering if you 
 guys could talk about it.

 1. does ASMs work as well as Oracle claims? I always wonder about first generation 
 features... takes most software vendors a couple of generations to get it 
 right(takes any project Im on just as long). This is a radical departure.

 for those of you who dont know. Oracle claims that they will manage your disks for 
 you. All you do is give Oracle some Raw Disks and Oracle will set up, and handle all 
 your datafiles. All you do is look at logical tablespaces. It will also handle I/O 
 balancing. 

 How well does this work? Anyone test it with a SAN? 

 2. RAC Load Balancing. Oracle claims that you only need Oracle software from now on. 
 They also claim that you can load balance multiple applications. Lets say you have 
 One application that runs batch loads over night and a transactional application 
 during the day oracle will automatically steal resources from the other when its 
 not busy...

 anyone test this? 

 3. Flashback database. Kyte was the presenter and he said that you can keep massive 
 undo areas, so that if you have a failure or delete data you shouldnt have you can 
 have oracle automatically write the DML necessary to bring it back to any point in 
 time. Kyte said that regular EIDE hard drives that you put in home PCs are plenty 
 fast enough for most systems. He recommends getting 4 300 GB drives(1.2 TBs) for 
 about $1400 to do this and to make tape backups off of this since they are really 
 slow.

 Can any beta testers comment? 

 Im pleased with the rename tablespace feature... that way I dont have to update TS$ 
 anymore... I wonder if it was our complaining that got them to add it :)

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 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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RE: RE: Career Advice

the last two projects I have been on we are using client server with .Net. Tons of 
.net people, verify few database people. 

oracle is pushing jdeveloper hard. You need skilled java people to use that. 

 From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/19 Fri AM 09:44:25 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: RE: Career Advice

 Viktor, Ryan - Is what you are experiencing the result of companies moving
 to open-systems Web-based architectures?

 Dennis Williams
 DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 8:34 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 I agree with Ryan. Pure Oracle jobs aren't hot as they used to be. We are
 going through this right now. They are planning to bring in a bunch of new
 developers and splitting a few DBA's into dev. groups, which means we'll
 become more like software engineers (who can also do DBA stuff). There will
 be only one Prod. DBA for a zillion systems. 

 They're driving in the direction of bringing in more cross-trained people.
 They want all-aroind people who know Perl, Java, Oracle etc. The motto has
 been:  If you get hit by a bus, he/she can do it. The more you know, the
 better. Cross-training all the way. It's like that all-in-one
 fax/printer/copier thing. 

 And at the same time, the paycheck isn't as it had been either. 

 Viktor

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 my biggest concern is the model for development has been changed. The model
 now is do most development with software engineers and have only a small
 number of database people. this means less pure oracle jobs. 

  From: DENNIS WILLIAMS 
  Date: 2003/12/18 Thu PM 02:59:26 EST
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
  Subject: RE: RE: Career Advice

  Ryan - Excellent points. I well know the feeling of being tied to Oracle's
  future. As to Oracle pricing itself out of the market, I would like to
 make
  three points:
  - Pricing is one of the quickest things a vendor can change once it
  becomes convinced this is hurting it. On the other hand, I've seen
 software
  vendors that stopped investing in new development. They aren't in business
  anymore! because you can't quickly change that decision.
  - Oracle being perceived as high priced tends to increase our salaries. A
  company spends a lot of money on Oracle, so they want it used to good
  advantage. The salary surveys I've seen show MS SQL Server DBA with lower
  salaries on the average.
  - Has anyone seen salary survey results for MySQL or PostgreSQL? The
  database is free, so how much should a company spend on a DBA?

  Dennis Williams
  DBA
  Lifetouch, Inc.
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

  -Original Message-
  Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 1:19 PM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

  your goals should tie into the job market. you might absolutely love
 Pascal
  programming, but I dont recommend studying it. 

  Right now(and I dont know how it will fluctuate), there is far, far, far
  more demand for Software Engineers who specialize in Java or .Net. Far,
 far,
  far, more than people who specialize in the Oracle database. I think there
  has been a fundamental shift in database development. In the past you
 would
  hire mostly Oracle specialized people to do most of your development. They
  would use forms or powerbuilder to do your GUIs.

  These days, a growing number of teams hire a large number of java or .Net
  experts and only a handful of database people. is this the best way to go?
 I
  dont know. I do see a trend though. How long will the trend last? I do not
  know. 

  The biggest problem for IT workers is that we are so tied to one specific
  skillset and vendor. If Oracle prices themselves out of the market, our
  skills become far less valued. Employees today want super specialized
  skillsets. If you have them and they are hot, your set, but they wont be
 hot
  forever and i! ts very hard to switch since people want experience in the
  specific skillset before hiring you. 

   From: Thater, William 
   Date: 2003/12/18 Thu PM 01:44:37 EST
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L 
   Subject: RE: Career Advice

   DENNIS WILLIAMS scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:

Saira
I think you have to decide what your goal is. Then you need to
decide how to best accomplish that goal. One tool that can lead you
toward a goal is self-study. I have used that tool many times myself.
However, with experience you learn the self-study tool has its
limits. To consider self-study, consider the following questions:

1. Is this an area that I can gain significant knowledge with a
reasonable amount of effort? For example, are there good books
available? Is the area well-defined enough for self-study?
2. Since I'm trying to substitute self-effort for work experience, is
this an area where there are few people with

what is business intelligence?

I see this alot when people look for data warehouse people. any idea what is meant by 
this? Not look for the obvious oxymoronic joke. 

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Re: RE: 10g new features question for beta testers

SAME is stripe and mirror everything. There is a doc on otn by that name. ASMs will do 
that for you, 'in theory'.

kyte is the technical face of oracle. This is why they pay him so much money.

presentation would have been better if people didnt play 'stump the dba'. It seems 
like people were trying to show him how smart they were by asking irrelevent narrow 
questions that will be in the docs when they come in the next couple of months... wish 
he would have cut them off and covered more big picture stuff. 
 
 From: Michael Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/19 Fri PM 01:14:29 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: 10g new features question for beta testers
 
 I was in Reston last night, too. Also, Tom repeatedly
 emphasized RMAN, which I've not spent enough time
 mastering, will be even more important in 10g. Does
 everyone here use RMAN that is using 9i currently?
 
 BTW. Tom mentioned SAME, as you say, but I can not
 remember what he said about it. Sorry. Maybe Ryan
 remembers?
 
 As far as ASM, I thought it was interesting that ASM
 was supposed to run as additional PMON/SMON processes
 with separate dynamic V$ views as the API. 
 
 I was pretty impressed that Tom was spending the week
 before holidays travelling around and doing Oracle
 presentations. He is really amazing.
 
 Regards,
 
 Mike
 
 --- Goulet, Dick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  That is not exactly a new feature.  Oracle 9i has
  Oracle Managed Files where you give it a directory
  and then just build tablespaces.  The database picks
  the filenames for you.  Now mind you it does work,
  but I'll be damned if I use it in anything other
  than a development environment.  For some reason
  Oracle has never gotten over that DUMB SAME (Stripe
  And Mirror Everything) idea.  The concept is great
  in theory, but in practice it's absolutely abysmal
  at best.
  
  Dick Goulet
  Senior Oracle DBA
  Oracle Certified 8i DBA
  
  -Original Message-
  Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 8:24 AM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  
  
  I saw a presentation from Oracle on 10g new features
  last night in Reston,VA. I know atleast one other
  person from the list was there. Since Oracle is
  releasing details and its going to be released(in
  theory) in the next 2 weeks, I was wondering if you
  guys could talk about it.
  
  1. does ASMs work as well as Oracle claims? I always
  wonder about first generation features... takes most
  software vendors a couple of generations to get it
  right(takes any project Im on just as long). This is
  a radical departure.
  
  for those of you who dont know. Oracle claims that
  they will manage your disks for you. All you do is
  give Oracle some Raw Disks and Oracle will set up,
  and handle all your datafiles. All you do is look at
  logical tablespaces. It will also handle I/O
  balancing. 
  
  How well does this work? Anyone test it with a SAN? 
  
  
  2. RAC Load Balancing. Oracle claims that you only
  need Oracle software from now on. They also claim
  that you can load balance multiple applications.
  Lets say you have One application that runs batch
  loads over night and a transactional application
  during the day oracle will automatically steal
  resources from the other when its not busy...
  
  anyone test this? 
  
  
  3. Flashback database. Kyte was the presenter and he
  said that you can keep massive undo areas, so that
  if you have a failure or delete data you shouldnt
  have you can have oracle automatically write the DML
  necessary to bring it back to any point in time.
  Kyte said that regular EIDE hard drives that you put
  in home PCs are plenty fast enough for most systems.
  He recommends getting 4 300 GB drives(1.2 TBs) for
  about $1400 to do this and to make tape backups off
  of this since they are really slow.
  
  Can any beta testers comment? 
  
  Im pleased with the rename tablespace feature...
  that way I dont have to update TS$ anymore... I
  wonder if it was our complaining that got them to
  add it :)
  
  -- 
  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ:
  http://www.orafaq.net
  -- 
  Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
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 -
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  E-Mail message
  to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of
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Re: Re: Any known problems using NOT IN ?

btw, a straight not in without a hash_aj, tends to get hideous bench marks. 

 From: Mladen Gogala [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/18 Thu AM 09:14:24 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Any known problems using NOT IN ?

 Actually, because relational database conform to the rules of set theory,
 I find it preferable to use MINUS wherever possible. Oracle optimizer
 is trained to spot set operations and they usually generate sort/merge 
 or hash based execution plan, while NOT IN and NOT EXIST can generate
 NL plan, which is, generally speaking, undesired when you do set operations.

 On 12/18/2003 12:39:26 AM, Charu Joshi wrote:
  Siddharth,

  The NOT IN query fails to return rows, if the inner sub-query returns NULL
  values. It is always recommended to use the NOT EXISTS clause, unless you
  are sure that the inner query will not return any NULLs.

  Regards,
  Charu.

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
  Siddharth Haldankar
Sent: 18 December 2003 10:54
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Any known problems using NOT IN ?

Hi Gurus,

I have a problem using NOT IN clause in Oracle. However using NOT EXISTS,
  gives me the right output. Are there any known limitations.

This query selects from the master records wherein child records are not
  active.

select * from ct_software_release csr where

  csr.class = 'NS'

  ANDcsr.active_flag   = 'Y'

  ANDcsr.os_id_pk not IN

  (SELECT crs.os_id_fk1 FROM CT_ROADMAP_SOFTWARE crs

WHERE crs.active_flag  = 'Y');

The sub-query in the above case gives 1800 rows. The above query fails to
  give any rows.

select * from ct_software_release csr where

  csr.class = 'NS'

  ANDcsr.active_flag   = 'Y'

  ANDNOT EXISTS

(SELECT 1 FROM CT_ROADMAP_SOFTWARE crs

WHERE crs.os_id_fk1 = csr.os_id_pk

AND crs.active_flag  = 'Y');

This above query works fine.

Thanks

  --

Siddharth Haldankar

Zensar Technologies Ltd.

Cisco Systems Inc.

(Offshore Development Center)

#  : 091 020 4128394

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  *
  Disclaimer

  This message (including any attachments) contains 
  confidential information intended for a specific 
  individual and purpose, and is protected by law. 
  If you are not the intended recipient, you should 
  delete this message and are hereby notified that 
  any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this
  message, or the taking of any action based on it, 
  is strictly prohibited.

  *

  Visit us at http://www.mahindrabt.com

 --
 Mladen Gogala
 Oracle DBA
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Mladen Gogala
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Re: Re: Any known problems using NOT IN ?

uhh... thats not exactly true. oracle is a bastardization of set theory.

there are alot of cases where 'not exists' and 'not in'(if doing a hash anti-join' are 
much superior to minus. 

here are some generalizations.

1. not in with a hash_aj is the best if
  -- your sub-query is significantly less 'costly' then your out query... that is NOT 
based on the 'cost' of the explain plain.

2. If they are about the same or the out is more costly, go with not exists.

3. If you need to do a large full tablescan or if the outer query is very small 
relative to the inner query, minus tends to be the best. 

These are broad generalizations, but work well and are MUCH better than just guessing. 
 
 From: Mladen Gogala [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/18 Thu AM 09:14:24 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Any known problems using NOT IN ?
 
 Actually, because relational database conform to the rules of set theory,
 I find it preferable to use MINUS wherever possible. Oracle optimizer
 is trained to spot set operations and they usually generate sort/merge 
 or hash based execution plan, while NOT IN and NOT EXIST can generate
 NL plan, which is, generally speaking, undesired when you do set operations.
 
 On 12/18/2003 12:39:26 AM, Charu Joshi wrote:
  Siddharth,
  
  The NOT IN query fails to return rows, if the inner sub-query returns NULL
  values. It is always recommended to use the NOT EXISTS clause, unless you
  are sure that the inner query will not return any NULLs.
  
  Regards,
  Charu.
  
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
  Siddharth Haldankar
Sent: 18 December 2003 10:54
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: Any known problems using NOT IN ?
  
Hi Gurus,
  
I have a problem using NOT IN clause in Oracle. However using NOT EXISTS,
  gives me the right output. Are there any known limitations.
  
This query selects from the master records wherein child records are not
  active.
  
select * from ct_software_release csr where
  
  csr.class = 'NS'
  
  ANDcsr.active_flag   = 'Y'
  
  ANDcsr.os_id_pk not IN
  
  (SELECT crs.os_id_fk1 FROM CT_ROADMAP_SOFTWARE crs
  
WHERE crs.active_flag  = 'Y');
  
The sub-query in the above case gives 1800 rows. The above query fails to
  give any rows.
  
select * from ct_software_release csr where
  
  csr.class = 'NS'
  
  ANDcsr.active_flag   = 'Y'
  
  ANDNOT EXISTS
  
(SELECT 1 FROM CT_ROADMAP_SOFTWARE crs
  
WHERE crs.os_id_fk1 = csr.os_id_pk
  
AND crs.active_flag  = 'Y');
  
This above query works fine.
  
Thanks
  
  
  --
  
Siddharth Haldankar
  
Zensar Technologies Ltd.
  
Cisco Systems Inc.
  
(Offshore Development Center)
  
#  : 091 020 4128394
  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
  *
  Disclaimer
  
  This message (including any attachments) contains 
  confidential information intended for a specific 
  individual and purpose, and is protected by law. 
  If you are not the intended recipient, you should 
  delete this message and are hereby notified that 
  any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this
  message, or the taking of any action based on it, 
  is strictly prohibited.
  
  *
  
  Visit us at http://www.mahindrabt.com
  
  
 
 --
 Mladen Gogala
 Oracle DBA
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Mladen Gogala
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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Re: RE: Career Advice

your goals should tie into the job market. you might absolutely love Pascal 
programming, but I dont recommend studying it. 

Right now(and I dont know how it will fluctuate), there is far, far, far more demand 
for Software Engineers who specialize in Java or .Net. Far, far, far, more than people 
who specialize in the Oracle database. I think there has been a fundamental shift in 
database development. In the past you would hire mostly Oracle specialized people to 
do most of your development. They would use forms or powerbuilder to do your GUIs.

These days, a growing number of teams hire a large number of java or .Net experts and 
only a handful of database people. is this the best way to go? I dont know. I do see a 
trend though. How long will the trend last? I do not know. 

The biggest problem for IT workers is that we are so tied to one specific skillset and 
vendor. If Oracle prices themselves out of the market, our skills become far less 
valued. Employees today want super specialized skillsets. If you have them and they 
are hot, your set, but they wont be hot forever and its very hard to switch since 
people want experience in the specific skillset before hiring you. 
 
 From: Thater, William [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/18 Thu PM 01:44:37 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: Career Advice
 
 DENNIS WILLIAMS  scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:
 
  Saira
  I think you have to decide what your goal is. Then you need to
  decide how to best accomplish that goal. One tool that can lead you
  toward a goal is self-study. I have used that tool many times myself.
  However, with experience you learn the self-study tool has its
  limits. To consider self-study, consider the following questions:
  
  1. Is this an area that I can gain significant knowledge with a
  reasonable amount of effort? For example, are there good books
  available? Is the area well-defined enough for self-study?
  2. Since I'm trying to substitute self-effort for work experience, is
  this an area where there are few people with real work experience?
  3. Are there credentials that can be earned?
 
 i'd like to add one more...
 4. is this something where getting it right will still give you a charge
 after doing it for 10 years or more?
 
 [and yes DBA and programming still do for me.  but i'm finding the chances
 of being allowed to do it right are becoming few and far between.]
 
 --
 Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA  
 I'm going to work my ticket if I can... -- Gilwell song
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Douglas Adams
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Thater, William
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
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RE: RE: Career Advice

my biggest concern is the model for development has been changed. The model now is do 
most development with software engineers and have only a small number of database 
people. this means less pure oracle jobs. 

 From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/18 Thu PM 02:59:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: RE: Career Advice

 Ryan - Excellent points. I well know the feeling of being tied to Oracle's
 future. As to Oracle pricing itself out of the market, I would like to make
 three points:
- Pricing is one of the quickest things a vendor can change once it
 becomes convinced this is hurting it. On the other hand, I've seen software
 vendors that stopped investing in new development. They aren't in business
 anymore because you can't quickly change that decision.
- Oracle being perceived as high priced tends to increase our salaries. A
 company spends a lot of money on Oracle, so they want it used to good
 advantage. The salary surveys I've seen show MS SQL Server DBA with lower
 salaries on the average.
- Has anyone seen salary survey results for MySQL or PostgreSQL? The
 database is free, so how much should a company spend on a DBA?

 Dennis Williams
 DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Thursday, December 18, 2003 1:19 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 your goals should tie into the job market. you might absolutely love Pascal
 programming, but I dont recommend studying it. 

 Right now(and I dont know how it will fluctuate), there is far, far, far
 more demand for Software Engineers who specialize in Java or .Net. Far, far,
 far, more than people who specialize in the Oracle database. I think there
 has been a fundamental shift in database development. In the past you would
 hire mostly Oracle specialized people to do most of your development. They
 would use forms or powerbuilder to do your GUIs.

 These days, a growing number of teams hire a large number of java or .Net
 experts and only a handful of database people. is this the best way to go? I
 dont know. I do see a trend though. How long will the trend last? I do not
 know. 

 The biggest problem for IT workers is that we are so tied to one specific
 skillset and vendor. If Oracle prices themselves out of the market, our
 skills become far less valued. Employees today want super specialized
 skillsets. If you have them and they are hot, your set, but they wont be hot
 forever and its very hard to switch since people want experience in the
 specific skillset before hiring you. 

  From: Thater, William [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: 2003/12/18 Thu PM 01:44:37 EST
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: Career Advice

  DENNIS WILLIAMS  scribbled on the wall in glitter crayon:

   Saira
   I think you have to decide what your goal is. Then you need to
   decide how to best accomplish that goal. One tool that can lead you
   toward a goal is self-study. I have used that tool many times myself.
   However, with experience you learn the self-study tool has its
   limits. To consider self-study, consider the following questions:

   1. Is this an area that I can gain significant knowledge with a
   reasonable amount of effort? For example, are there good books
   available? Is the area well-defined enough for self-study?
   2. Since I'm trying to substitute self-effort for work experience, is
   this an area where there are few people with real work experience?
   3. Are there credentials that can be earned?

  i'd like to add one more...
  4. is this something where getting it right will still give you a charge
  after doing it for 10 years or more?

  [and yes DBA and programming still do for me.  but i'm finding the chances
  of being allowed to do it right are becoming few and far between.]

  --
  Bill Shrek Thater ORACLE DBA  
  I'm going to work my ticket if I can... -- Gilwell song
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Time is an illusion, lunchtime doubly so. - Douglas Adams
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Re: Re: Career Advice

2003-12-17 Thread ryan_oracle

learn java and object oriented programming. go to sun.com and start reading the java 
docs.

go to www.bruceeckel.com and read his java book. 


do a search on any job sites. a ton more work for java than oracle. people who can do 
both are in demand. 
 
 From: Mladen Gogala [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/17 Wed PM 01:49:25 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Career Advice
 
 Have you ever considered a career in country music? Try getting Stand By your man
 just right and the rest will come. You have to learn both kinds of music, country
 and western. May Jake and Elwood be with you.
 
 On 12/17/2003 12:44:28 PM, Saira Somani-Mendelin wrote:
  As an applications analyst/junior dba, I feel I need to learn more but
  I'm not sure of the direction I should take, so I'm asking for advice.
  
  Should I become interested in Oracle Apps? Or should I learn another
  suite like SAP or Siebel or PeopleSoft? The difficulty is that my
  company does not use any of these. We use a smaller package by Tecsys
  called Elite and they don't have as many customers - or should I say, as
  many customers with deep pockets. 
  
  I know I can get my hands on a working copy of SAP, what about the
  others? I believe you can purchase an evaluation copy of Apps from the
  Oracle Store. Has anyone actually tried to train themselves on any of
  these products? Has anyone installed Apps at home for testing? 
  
  Sorry if this question has been presented on the list before.
  
  Thanks,
  Saira
  
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RE: Re: Who are certified Oracle Masters?

2003-12-17 Thread ryan_oracle

DC area is insanely expensive. you can spend $300,000 for a condo. Traffic is very bad 
also and getting worse. 

it doesnt get 'affordable' until you get up to frederick or in virginia near manassas 
or west of leesburg. 

with all the government money and the private sector IT stuff in free fall, people are 
going to keep coming here so prices will continue to go up. 

property taxes on long island i believe are higher. I think Reston is 1.1% of property 
value? Im going to buy a place their next year. However, you also have to pay about 
$500 a year to use the pools, etc...(its not optional). 

if its more than that let me know... 
 
 From: Hsu, Anthony C., ,CPMS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/17 Wed PM 12:09:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: Re: Who are certified Oracle Masters?
 
 high 300K to 0.5M for a townhouse and 500K to 1M for single house
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 11:34 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 Bethesda city center on Wisconsin Av.? Nice place with some rather fancy
 restaurants around. I drove around Washington and Bethesda and I must say
 that 
 it is a beautiful  area. I would like to live in Reston, VA. Did you know
 that 
 propery prices in Reston are comparable to those on LI?
 
 On 12/17/2003 11:04:29 AM, Rachel Carmichael wrote:
  I ended up going to Bethesda from NYC to take the class with him
  
  
  --- Mladen Gogala [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   I've taken those for 8i. Scott  is a great guy and the course is
   excellent.
   In NYC there was a waiting list for his course. 
   On 12/17/2003 09:19:26 AM, Boivin, Patrice J wrote:
So we have to take two advanced Oracle courses...  

I have a bad feeling that the Oracle Internals Seminars by Scott
   Gossett
don't count.

Would that be correct?  They are not part of the OCP tracks.

Patrice.
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Re: Good news from Oracle

2003-12-16 Thread ryan_oracle

the question for technical people is where the sales are located. are they in the US? 
or somewhere else 

 From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/16 Tue AM 08:59:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Good news from Oracle

 Oracle is posting healthy profits.

 http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=16700686

 Dennis Williams
 DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
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connection pooling from an application server to oracle

2003-12-15 Thread ryan_oracle

The software engineers here are using an application server with connection pooling to 
connect to our oracle instances. 
They are doing it with a dedicated connection to Oracle. No MTS.

they compartmentalize stuff here, so Im having trouble figuring out exactly how this 
affects the database and how to monitor performance. All I know is that I see a 
handful of constantly open dedicated connections. I have been told that this is 
actually alot of users connecting to the database. 

This concerns me. how do you handle transaction control in this type of environment? 
in this type of environment do you have to commit after every DML statement? since 
multiple users will access the database with the same conneciton? 

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Re: RE: connection pooling from an application server to oracle

2003-12-15 Thread ryan_oracle

doesnt this force you to commit after every single DML statement? 

 From: Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/15 Mon AM 08:36:09 EST
 To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 CC: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: connection pooling from an application server to oracle

 Ryan,

 This is becoming for normal.  There are a lot of software pieces that do
 connection pooling - basically, everybody is plaing in everbody else's
 space.

 I have a couple of projects where the app-server does the connection
 pooling.  One using Dcom and the other IBM WebSphere.

 From your point of view, it's just one less thing to worry about.  The
 number of db connections will be relatively small.  The app server keeps
 track of transactions.  As long as they say it works, it's not your problem.

 Tom Mercadante
 Oracle Certified Professional

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 7:59 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 Subject: connection pooling from an application server to oracle

 The software engineers here are using an application server with connection
 pooling to connect to our oracle instances. 
 They are doing it with a dedicated connection to Oracle. No MTS.

 they compartmentalize stuff here, so Im having trouble figuring out exactly
 how this affects the database and how to monitor performance. All I know is
 that I see a handful of constantly open dedicated connections. I have been
 told that this is actually alot of users connecting to the database. 

 This concerns me. how do you handle transaction control in this type of
 environment? in this type of environment do you have to commit after every
 DML statement? since multiple users will access the database with the same
 conneciton? 

 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: RE: connection pooling from an application server to oracle

2003-12-15 Thread ryan_oracle

so if user A has 10 DML statements to do in one transaction. The application server 
will be smart enough to to only allow user 'A' to use that connection until a 'commit' 
is issued? 

how does application level connection pooling compare to MTS? 

 From: Rachel Carmichael [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/15 Mon AM 09:04:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: RE: connection pooling from an application server to oracle

 nope. the application server watches the connections and
 transactions 

 the main problem is it's very hard to do a 10046 trace on a session
 with connection pooling going on, as a user session may actually be
 several distinct database sessions.

 --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  doesnt this force you to commit after every single DML statement? 

   From: Mercadante, Thomas F [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Date: 2003/12/15 Mon AM 08:36:09 EST
   To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   CC: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject: RE: connection pooling from an application server to
  oracle

   Ryan,

   This is becoming for normal.  There are a lot of software pieces
  that do
   connection pooling - basically, everybody is plaing in everbody
  else's
   space.

   I have a couple of projects where the app-server does the
  connection
   pooling.  One using Dcom and the other IBM WebSphere.

   From your point of view, it's just one less thing to worry about. 
  The
   number of db connections will be relatively small.  The app server
  keeps
   track of transactions.  As long as they say it works, it's not your
  problem.

   Tom Mercadante
   Oracle Certified Professional

   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 7:59 AM
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
   Subject: connection pooling from an application server to oracle

   The software engineers here are using an application server with
  connection
   pooling to connect to our oracle instances. 
   They are doing it with a dedicated connection to Oracle. No MTS.

   they compartmentalize stuff here, so Im having trouble figuring out
  exactly
   how this affects the database and how to monitor performance. All I
  know is
   that I see a handful of constantly open dedicated connections. I
  have been
   told that this is actually alot of users connecting to the
  database. 

   This concerns me. how do you handle transaction control in this
  type of
   environment? in this type of environment do you have to commit
  after every
   DML statement? since multiple users will access the database with
  the same
   conneciton? 

   -- 
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permanently changing the 'optimal' setting

2003-12-12 Thread ryan_oracle

I change it with an alter rollback segment, but when i bounce the instance, it goes 
back to the default of 1m. 

is there a way to make the change permanent? 

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Re: Re: Who are certified Oracle Masters?

2003-12-12 Thread ryan_oracle

how many people are actually OCMs? and those of you that are, has it helped you in 
getting work? 

 From: Richard Foote [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/12 Fri AM 07:54:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Who are certified Oracle Masters?

 Hi Robert,

 That's all very interesting.

 The various press releases at the time (e.g.
 http://www.dulcian.com/PRESS%20RELEASE_OCM.htm) all suggest that the 6 best
 Oracle experts in the world were handed these prestigious awards. Even the
 TUSC website only makes mention of these awards being handed to Mr Niemiec.

 If he indeed actually took and passed the practical exam in person, and if
 obtaining OCM status is as prestigious as the marketing makes it out to be,
 then I would recommend Mr Niemiec perhaps promote his hands-on involvement
 a little more (rather than the handed hands-off bit) as this I'm sure all
 comes as news to many.

 It's actually a very brave thing to have done when you think about it. It's
 a little bit like being given a brand new car as a present and saying oh no
 no, I want to prove I can drive it first. It's all great if you pass the
 driving test but if you were to fail, boy, would you look silly holding
 those car keys ;)

 Did he have any such reservations ?

 Cheers

 Richard

 - Original Message -
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 8:29 AM

  As I recall Rich talking about it, he did indeed take the exam. It was not
  just handed to him.

  Robert

  -Original Message-
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
  Sent: 12/11/2003 3:59 PM

  you mean niemic didnt actually have to take the test? It was just handed
  to
  him? who is jeremiah wilton?
  - Original Message -
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2003 4:09 PM

   IIRC, Tanel did the OCM as well, but I suspect most of the others on
   your list aren't prepared to waste their time attending OCP exams and
   courses just so they can get the OCM.  :)

   There were some honorary OCM's announced when the program first
  started
   (OOW2002?).  From memory, Rich Niemic and Jeremiah Wilton are the only
   names that spring to mind from that group.

   Pete

   Controlling developers is like herding cats.

   Kevin Loney, Oracle DBA Handbook

   Oh no, it's not.  It's much harder than that!

   Bruce Pihlamae, long-term Oracle DBA

   -Original Message-
   Mladen Gogala
   Sent: Friday, December 12, 2003 7:54 AM
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

   I know only of Pete Sharman. Who are other Oracle Certified Masters on
   this group? I suspect Tanel to be one, as well as Steve Adams, Cary
   Millsap,
   Mogens Norgaard, Anjo Kolk, Wolfgang Breitling, Gaja V. and Kirti
   Deshpande.
   Am I correct?

   Mladen Gogala
   Oracle DBA
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Re: OT: More Advances in Netwotking to Support the Grid

2003-12-12 Thread ryan_oracle

how do you move over to the academic database world? it seems like the most 
interesting stuff is going on there? 

 From: MacGregor, Ian A. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/12 Fri AM 11:29:27 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: OT:  More Advances in Netwotking to Support the Grid

 http://pr.caltech.edu/media/Press_Releases/PR12465.html

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 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
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 Author: MacGregor, Ian A.
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Re: Little competition

i meant automatic segment management has fragmentation issues. 

 From: Richard Foote [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/11 Thu AM 06:39:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Little competition

 Little competition for you all :)

 It's a two part question:
   a.. What's wrong with the following piece of expert analysis ?
   b.. Which well know Oracle Guru published this (and continues to display it 
 on his web-page) ?

 Sadly, Oracle9i doesn't allow you to specify the value for PCTFREE if you're using 
 automatic space management. This is a serious limitation because Oracle9i can't know 
 in advance about the amount of VARCHAR expansion in a table row, leading to 
 excessive row chaining and poor access performance.

 SQL create table
   2   test_table
   3   (c1 number)
   4  tablespace
   5   asm_test
   6  storage
   7   ( pctfree 20 pctused 30 )
   8  ;

( pctfree 20 pctused 30 )
  *
 ERROR at line 7:
 ORA-02143: invalid STORAGE option

 However, here's an important point. While Oracle9i rejects the PCTFREE and PCTUSED 
 parameters with locally managed tablespaces with automatic space management, it does 
 allow you to enter invalid settings for NEXT and FREELISTS settings

 You've gotta love it !!

 Sorry no clues 

 Cheers ;)

 Richard

Little competition for you all :)

It's a two part question:

   What's wrong with the 
  followingpiece of expert analysis?
   Which well know "Oracle Guru" 
  published this (and continues to display it on his web-page) ?

"Sadly, Oracle9i doesnt allow you to specify the 
value for PCTFREE if youre using automatic space management. This is a serious 
limitation because Oracle9i cant know in advance about the amount of VARCHAR 
expansion in a table row, leading to excessive row chaining and poor access 
performance."

SQL create 
table 2 test_table 3 (c1 number) 
4 tablespace 5 
asm_test 6 storage 7 ( pctfree 20 pctused 30 ) 8 ; ( pctfree 20 pctused 30 ) *ERROR at line 
7:ORA-02143: invalid STORAGE 
optionHowever, heres an important point. While Oracle9i rejects 
the PCTFREE and PCTUSED parameters with locally managed tablespaces with 
automatic space management, it does allow you to enter invalid settings for NEXT 
and FREELISTS settings"

You've gotta love it !!

Sorry no clues 

Cheers ;)

Richard

Re: Little competition

who wrote that? 

automatic undo management has fragmentation issues. Niall Litchfield posted a test 
case a couple of months ago. 

 From: Richard Foote [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/11 Thu AM 06:39:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Little competition

 Little competition for you all :)

 It's a two part question:
   a.. What's wrong with the following piece of expert analysis ?
   b.. Which well know Oracle Guru published this (and continues to display it 
 on his web-page) ?

 Sadly, Oracle9i doesn't allow you to specify the value for PCTFREE if you're using 
 automatic space management. This is a serious limitation because Oracle9i can't know 
 in advance about the amount of VARCHAR expansion in a table row, leading to 
 excessive row chaining and poor access performance.

 SQL create table
   2   test_table
   3   (c1 number)
   4  tablespace
   5   asm_test
   6  storage
   7   ( pctfree 20 pctused 30 )
   8  ;

( pctfree 20 pctused 30 )
  *
 ERROR at line 7:
 ORA-02143: invalid STORAGE option

 However, here's an important point. While Oracle9i rejects the PCTFREE and PCTUSED 
 parameters with locally managed tablespaces with automatic space management, it does 
 allow you to enter invalid settings for NEXT and FREELISTS settings

 You've gotta love it !!

 Sorry no clues 

 Cheers ;)

 Richard

Little competition for you all :)

It's a two part question:

   What's wrong with the 
  followingpiece of expert analysis?
   Which well know "Oracle Guru" 
  published this (and continues to display it on his web-page) ?

"Sadly, Oracle9i doesnt allow you to specify the 
value for PCTFREE if youre using automatic space management. This is a serious 
limitation because Oracle9i cant know in advance about the amount of VARCHAR 
expansion in a table row, leading to excessive row chaining and poor access 
performance."

SQL create 
table 2 test_table 3 (c1 number) 
4 tablespace 5 
asm_test 6 storage 7 ( pctfree 20 pctused 30 ) 8 ; ( pctfree 20 pctused 30 ) *ERROR at line 
7:ORA-02143: invalid STORAGE 
optionHowever, heres an important point. While Oracle9i rejects 
the PCTFREE and PCTUSED parameters with locally managed tablespaces with 
automatic space management, it does allow you to enter invalid settings for NEXT 
and FREELISTS settings"

You've gotta love it !!

Sorry no clues 

Cheers ;)

Richard

Re: Little competition

hopefully i wont sound like a complete idiot, but what is wrong with wanting to be 
able to handle your own pctfree and pctused. Ok oracle handles the next and initial 
extent sizes...(which causes fragmentation). 

I use transportable tablespaces and in order to increase the time it takes to copy 
these datafiles, I use pctused 99 and pctfree 1 in order to compact the tables. I can 
cut 45 minutes off my load times by shrinking the data file? 

 From: Richard Foote [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/11 Thu AM 06:39:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Little competition

 Little competition for you all :)

 It's a two part question:
   a.. What's wrong with the following piece of expert analysis ?
   b.. Which well know Oracle Guru published this (and continues to display it 
 on his web-page) ?

 Sadly, Oracle9i doesn't allow you to specify the value for PCTFREE if you're using 
 automatic space management. This is a serious limitation because Oracle9i can't know 
 in advance about the amount of VARCHAR expansion in a table row, leading to 
 excessive row chaining and poor access performance.

 SQL create table
   2   test_table
   3   (c1 number)
   4  tablespace
   5   asm_test
   6  storage
   7   ( pctfree 20 pctused 30 )
   8  ;

( pctfree 20 pctused 30 )
  *
 ERROR at line 7:
 ORA-02143: invalid STORAGE option

 However, here's an important point. While Oracle9i rejects the PCTFREE and PCTUSED 
 parameters with locally managed tablespaces with automatic space management, it does 
 allow you to enter invalid settings for NEXT and FREELISTS settings

 You've gotta love it !!

 Sorry no clues 

 Cheers ;)

 Richard

Little competition for you all :)

It's a two part question:

   What's wrong with the 
  followingpiece of expert analysis?
   Which well know "Oracle Guru" 
  published this (and continues to display it on his web-page) ?

"Sadly, Oracle9i doesnt allow you to specify the 
value for PCTFREE if youre using automatic space management. This is a serious 
limitation because Oracle9i cant know in advance about the amount of VARCHAR 
expansion in a table row, leading to excessive row chaining and poor access 
performance."

SQL create 
table 2 test_table 3 (c1 number) 
4 tablespace 5 
asm_test 6 storage 7 ( pctfree 20 pctused 30 ) 8 ; ( pctfree 20 pctused 30 ) *ERROR at line 
7:ORA-02143: invalid STORAGE 
optionHowever, heres an important point. While Oracle9i rejects 
the PCTFREE and PCTUSED parameters with locally managed tablespaces with 
automatic space management, it does allow you to enter invalid settings for NEXT 
and FREELISTS settings"

You've gotta love it !!

Sorry no clues 

Cheers ;)

Richard

Re: Re: Little competition

Ive been working on 'large' distributed databases lately and its not as high as alot 
of arrogant people make it out to be. Its just different. Im not sure tuning a 
database with alot of data and fewer transactions like in a datawarehouse necessarily 
'harder' than tuning a higher transaction database with less data. You just look for 
different things.

I really dont care that much about LIOs for my batch loads since Im not going to scale 
it, Im just worried about response time. I routinely let my LIOs go up alot to 
increase response time. Is that harder than trying to get LIOs down in a database with 
less data? No its just different. Its not that different... same basic principles. 

I think defining high end databases should have more to do with what you are doing 
with them, then how much data is in them. The biggest thing about working on database 
in the multi-TB range is that its a nice buzzword for your resume. Its not necessarily 
harder. 

Besides, when your on a 'lower' end project with less resources and less people, Id 
argue that alot of times your job is alot harder. You dont have the same hardware and 
you have to do alot more different things yourself. Though it doesnt look as good on a 
resume... 

Maybe Carrie Milsap can chime in since he is the resident tuner expert here? Do you 
necessarily find it harder to tune large databases over smaller ones? 
 
 From: Jonathan Gennick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/11 Thu AM 08:24:34 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Little competition
 
 Thursday, December 11, 2003, 6:39:26 AM, Richard Foote ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 RF   a.. What's wrong with the following piece of expert analysis ?
 
 I don't know what's wrong with this analysis. There's not
 much really there. The claim is that it's bad not to be able
 to specify PCTFREE, but there's no real backup to that
 claim, no testing to prove the point, etc.
 
 Not sure I want to admit this publicly, but I don't recall
 ever needing to use PCTFREE. I know what it does, and I've
 played around with it a bit, but in production I always got
 along just fine with the default setting. I told this to a
 data warehousing person recently, and he was aghast, as he
 (apparently) uses PCTFREE often. But I have not worked on
 such huge databases, and maybe that's why I've never needed it.
 
 Bringing this back to automatic space management, it's my
 opinion that such features are targeted towards the low
 end (for lack of a better term, sorry) in which defaults
 work just fine. I'd guess that there's a class of databases
 for which the default PCTFREE setting is good-enough, and
 for which the automatic space management feature is
 good-enough, and for which automatic extent management is
 good-enough, etc. One of the things I've wondered about
 lately, is how to characterize the sort of database for
 which all the automatic features and the defaults are fine.
 
 Related to all this, as complicated as Oracle *can* be, I'm
 close to convinced that it's possible to define a greatly
 simplified database management regime. Work within a certain
 box, and you can ignore much of the complexity. I can even
 envision a user-manual targeted specifically at that box.
 Such a manual, for example, would show a simplified version
 of CREATE TABLE that omitted such things as PCTFREE,
 PCTUSED, etc. I haven't quite figured out yet how to define
 that box and how to characterize the sort of environment to
 which it applies.
 
 I once worked for a client who had a 5-10 gigabyte database
 with in the neighborhood of a dozen users. What they needed
 to know about managing Oracle would have fit into a really
 small book.
 
 Oracle is on to something with all the automatic features,
 but they need to present that feature set differently. Right
 now you get a database, you get told it can do all these
 automatic things (space mgmt, extent mgmt, SGA mgmt), but
 then you get pointed to this HUGE manual set that you need
 to wade through before you can begin to understand the
 automatic features. Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't
 believe Oracle has put together the simplified DBA manual
 yet, and perhaps maybe they should. What do you think?
 Should Oracle define the box and write a manual for
 customers who want to live within that box?
 
 Best regards,
 
 Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are
 http://Gennick.com * 906.387.1698 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Join the Oracle-article list and receive one
 article on Oracle technologies per month by 
 email. To join, visit http://four.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/oracle-article, 
 or send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 
 include the word subscribe in either the subject or body.
 
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Jonathan Gennick
   INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 Fat City Network Services-- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
 San Diego, California-- Mailing list

Re: Re: Little competition

yeah typical burleson carelessness then. anyone can make that mistake, but if your 
going to publish you should be more careful. 

should have known. 

 From: Tim Gorman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/11 Thu AM 08:34:32 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Little competition

 Neither the PCTFREE and PCTUSED clauses go inside the STORAGE clause.  They
 are independent of it.  That is why the error was thrown, not because
 PCTFREE is invalid with ASSM...

 Essentially, an erroneous interpretation of the error message.

 If it was really going to prove his point, the CREATE syntax in the article
 should have read instead:

create table test_table (c1 number)
tablespace test_assm
pctfree 20 pctused 30;

 It succeeds, by the way...

 on 12/11/03 6:14 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  #1. these instances are still on 8i. We are supposed to go to 9i, but its not
  my call

  #2. its read only for the users. We do batch loads at night and I did not
  notice any slow down in the loads. I run statspack regularly. no problem. Just
  gotta do an alter table move periodically when we get too much row migration,
  but I can do that over the weekend.

  Depends on your situation. There are cases for dense blocks
  and there are cases where you dont want to do this.

  again, what is so bad with what burleson said about the pctfree and pctused?

   From: Tim Gorman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Date: 2003/12/11 Thu AM 07:59:25 EST
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Subject: Re: Little competition

I can cut 45 minutes off my load times by shrinking the data file?

   And how much overhead gets added to DML statements as blocks madly shift on
   and off the freelists with each operation?  Priorities, priorities,
   priorities...

   If you¹re using 9i or above, the table COMPRESS feature might be a more
   effective mechanism?

   on 12/11/03 5:44 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

hopefully i wont sound like a complete idiot, but what is wrong with
  wanting
to be able to handle your own pctfree and pctused. Ok oracle handles the
  next
and initial extent sizes...(which causes fragmentation).

I use transportable tablespaces and in order to increase the time it
  takes to
copy these datafiles, I use pctused 99 and pctfree 1 in order to compact
 the
tables. I can cut 45 minutes off my load times by shrinking the data 
 file?

 From: Richard Foote [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/11 Thu AM 06:39:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Little competition

 Little competition for you all :)

 It's a two part question:
   a.. What's wrong with the following piece of expert analysis
 ?
   b.. Which well know Oracle Guru published this (and
  continues to
display it on his web-page) ?

 Sadly, Oracle9i doesn't allow you to specify the value for PCTFREE
 if
you're using automatic space management. This is a serious limitation
  because
Oracle9i can't know in advance about the amount of VARCHAR expansion
 in a
table row, leading to excessive row chaining and poor access
  performance.

 SQL create table
   2   test_table
   3   (c1 number)
   4  tablespace
   5   asm_test
   6  storage
   7   ( pctfree 20 pctused 30 )
   8  ;

( pctfree 20 pctused 30 )
  *
 ERROR at line 7:
 ORA-02143: invalid STORAGE option

 However, here's an important point. While Oracle9i rejects the
  PCTFREE and
PCTUSED parameters with locally managed tablespaces with automatic
  space
management, it does allow you to enter invalid settings for NEXT and
FREELISTS settings

 You've gotta love it !!

 Sorry no clues 

 Cheers ;)

 Richard

Little competition for you all :)

It's a two part question:
* What's wrong with the following piece of expert analysis ?
* Which well know Oracle Guru published this (and continues to
  display
it on his web-page) ?

Sadly, Oracle9i doesnt allow you to specify the value for PCTFREE if
  youre
using automatic space management. This is a serious limitation because
Oracle9i cant know in advance about the amount of VARCHAR expansion in
 a
table row, leading to excessive row chaining and poor access
  performance.

SQL create table
  2   test_table
  3   (c1 number)
  4  tablespace
  5   asm_test
  6  storage
  7   ( pctfree 20 pctused 30 )
  8  ;

   ( pctfree 20 pctused 30 )
 *
ERROR at line 7:
ORA-02143: invalid STORAGE option

However, heres an important point. While Oracle9i rejects the PCTFREE
 and
PCTUSED parameters with

Re: Re: Little competition

#1. these instances are still on 8i. We are supposed to go to 9i, but its not my call

#2. its read only for the users. We do batch loads at night and I did not notice any
slow down in the loads. I run statspack regularly. no problem. Just gotta do an alter
table move periodically when we get too much row migration, but I can do that over the
weekend.

Depends on your situation. There are cases for dense blocks
and there are cases where you dont want to do this.

again, what is so bad with what burleson said about the pctfree and pctused?

From: Tim Gorman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2003/12/11 Thu AM 07:59:25 EST
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Little competition

I can cut 45 minutes off my load times by shrinking the data file?

And how much overhead gets added to DML statements as blocks madly shift on
and off the freelists with each operation? Priorities, priorities,
priorities...

If you¹re using 9i or above, the table COMPRESS feature might be a more
effective mechanism?

on 12/11/03 5:44 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

hopefully i wont sound like a complete idiot, but what is wrong with wanting
to be able to handle your own pctfree and pctused. Ok oracle handles the next
and initial extent sizes...(which causes fragmentation).

I use transportable tablespaces and in order to increase the time it takes to
copy these datafiles, I use pctused 99 and pctfree 1 in order to compact the
tables. I can cut 45 minutes off my load times by shrinking the data file?

From: Richard Foote [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2003/12/11 Thu AM 06:39:26 EST
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Little competition

Little competition for you all :)

It's a two part question:
a.. What's wrong with the following piece of expert analysis ?
b.. Which well know Oracle Guru published this (and continues to
display it on his web-page) ?

Sadly, Oracle9i doesn't allow you to specify the value for PCTFREE if
you're using automatic space management. This is a serious limitation because
Oracle9i can't know in advance about the amount of VARCHAR expansion in a
table row, leading to excessive row chaining and poor access performance.

SQL create table
2 test_table
3 (c1 number)
4 tablespace
5 asm_test
6 storage
7 ( pctfree 20 pctused 30 )
8 ;

( pctfree 20 pctused 30 )
*
ERROR at line 7:
ORA-02143: invalid STORAGE option

However, here's an important point. While Oracle9i rejects the PCTFREE and
PCTUSED parameters with locally managed tablespaces with automatic space
management, it does allow you to enter invalid settings for NEXT and
FREELISTS settings

You've gotta love it !!

Sorry no clues

Cheers ;)

Richard

Little competition for you all :)

It's a two part question:
* What's wrong with the following piece of expert analysis ?
* Which well know Oracle Guru published this (and continues to display
it on his web-page) ?

Sadly, Oracle9i doesnt allow you to specify the value for PCTFREE if youre
using automatic space management. This is a serious limitation because
Oracle9i cant know in advance about the amount of VARCHAR expansion in a
table row, leading to excessive row chaining and poor access performance.

SQL create table
2 test_table
3 (c1 number)
4 tablespace
5 asm_test
6 storage
7 ( pctfree 20 pctused 30 )
8 ;

( pctfree 20 pctused 30 )
*
ERROR at line 7:
ORA-02143: invalid STORAGE option

However, heres an important point. While Oracle9i rejects the PCTFREE and
PCTUSED parameters with locally managed tablespaces with automatic space
management, it does allow you to enter invalid settings for NEXT and FREELISTS
settings

You've gotta love it !!

Sorry no clues

Cheers ;)

Richard

Title: Re: Little competition

I can cut 45 minutes off my load times by shrinking the data file?

And how much overhead gets added to DML statements as blocks madly shift on and off the freelists with each operation? Priorities, priorities, priorities...

If youre using 9i or above, the table COMPRESS feature might be a more effective mechanism?

on 12/11/03 5:44 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

hopefully i wont sound like a complete idiot, but what is wrong with wanting to be able to handle your own pctfree and pctused. Ok oracle handles the next and initial extent sizes...(which causes fragmentation).

I use transportable tablespaces and in order to increase the time it takes to copy these datafiles, I use pctused 99 and pctfree 1 in order to compact the tables. I can cut 45 minutes off my load times by shrinking the data file?

From: Richard

Re: Re: Strange behavior with dbms_stats...

put it into a a dbms_output to see what is passed as variables

then wrap it in execute immediate. your doing dynamic pl/sql. i think that will work. 

 From: anu [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/11 Thu AM 11:54:35 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Strange behavior with dbms_stats...

 The proc generates the 'exec dbms_stats ' statements for all the users. Are you 
 saving the output and running it manually or not. IT would have the same statements 
 that you run one by one. 

 Jose Luis Delgado [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:List...

 SunOS 5.8, Oracle 8.1.6 (and 8.1.7 too).

 I use the proc at the bottom to generate statistics.

 It seems to work, but if I check statistics with:

 select owner, table_name, num_rows, blocks,
 av_row_len,
 to_char(last_analyzed, 'MM/DD/ HH24:MI:SS')
 from dba_tables;

 the tables have the OLD last_analyzed time!

 but... If I execute ONE by ONE:

 exec dbms_stats.gather_schema_stats(ownname =
 'PERFSTAT', cascade = TRUE);

 it works fine!!...

 So, am I doing something wrong?

 Any help?

 TIA
 JL

 create or replace procedure get_statistics as
 cursor get_users_list is
 select username
 from dba_users
 where username != 'SYS' 
 and username != 'SYSTEM';

 begin
 for i in get_users_list
 loop
 dbms_output.put_line('exec
 dbms_stats.gather_schema_stats(ownname =
 '||chr(39)||i.username||chr(39)||', cascade =
 TRUE);');
 end loop;
 end;
 /

 __
 Do you Yahoo!?
 New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
 http://photos.yahoo.com/
 -- 
 Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
 -- 
 Author: Jose Luis Delgado
 INET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.com
 San Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services
 -
 To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail message
 to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and in
 the message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L
 (or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You may
 also send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).

 -
 Do you Yahoo!?
 Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now

The proc generates the 'exec dbms_stats ' statements for all the users. Are yousaving theoutput and running it manually or not.IT would have the same statements that you run one by one. Jose Luis Delgado [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
List...SunOS 5.8, Oracle 8.1.6 (and 8.1.7 too).I use the proc at the bottom to generate statistics.It seems to work, but if I check statistics with:select owner, table_name, num_rows, blocks,av_row_len,to_char(last_analyzed, 'MM/DD/ HH24:MI:SS')from dba_tables;the tables have the OLD last_analyzed time!but... If I execute ONE by ONE:exec dbms_stats.gather_schema_stats(ownname ='PERFSTAT', cascade = TRUE);it works fine!!...So, am I doing something wrong?Any help?TIAJLcreate or replace procedure get_statistics ascursor get_users_list isselect usernamefrom dba_userswhere username != 'SYS' and username != 'SYSTEM';beginfor i in get_users_listloopdbms_output.put_line('execdbms_stats.gather_schema_stats(ownname
 ='||chr(39)||i.username||chr(39)||', cascade =TRUE);');end loop;end;/__Do you Yahoo!?New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.http://photos.yahoo.com/-- Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net-- Author: Jose Luis DelgadoINET: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Fat City Network Services -- 858-538-5051 http://www.fatcity.comSan Diego, California -- Mailing list and web hosting services-To REMOVE yourself from this mailing list, send an E-Mail messageto: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (note EXACT spelling of 'ListGuru') and inthe message BODY, include a line containing: UNSUB ORACLE-L(or the name of mailing list you want to be removed from). You mayalso send the HELP command for other information (like subscribing).
Do you Yahoo!?
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now

Re: RE: Little competition

oracle literature is really lacking in entry level docs anyway. The concepts document 
is way too large to be digestable by someone new to the topic. 

What we really need is:

simple SQL book for newbies
simple PL/SQL book for newbies
Architecture book
automatic features

Beginning Oracle Programming by Kyte, et all took a stab at this but they included WAY 
too much information and some sections are unreadable(the pl/sql chapters are 
terrible). 

Any newbie book should be 400 pages maximum. People get intimidated by large books 
when they are new. 
 
 From: Hately, Mike (LogicaCMG) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/11 Thu AM 08:44:32 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: Little competition
 
 Good points Jonathan,
 
 The 'box' as far as I'm concerned was accomodated by v7.3.4. That had 95% of
 the features anyone could want for most environments. After that we've had a
 succession of 'nice to have' features.
 Don't get me wrong, some environments absolutely demand these new features
 and there's a living to be made in understanding all of the new bells and
 whistles but I agree that most people don't use more than a tiny subset of
 the available toys.
 
 Mike Hately
 
 PS Yes, I'm aware that there will follow a list of post-7.3.4 features that
 people consider absolutely vital.  =)
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: 11 December 2003 13:25
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 Maybe I'm wrong here, but I don't
 believe Oracle has put together the simplified DBA manual
 yet, and perhaps maybe they should. What do you think?
 Should Oracle define the box and write a manual for
 customers who want to live within that box?
 
 Best regards,
 
 Jonathan Gennick --- Brighten the corner where you are
 http://Gennick.com * 906.387.1698 * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 
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Re: 3rd Party Oracle Licenses

you need to contact oracle sales to make certain. The obligation is on your company 
double check. 

i doubt what they are saying is true. please post what you find out. 

 From: Jay Hostetter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/11 Thu AM 09:14:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: 3rd Party Oracle Licenses

 We are purchasing a software package from a vendor.  The vendor states that the 
 package includes sufficient Oracle licenses.  Since I'm supposed to keep on top of 
 our licensing costs, I'm trying to make sure that there are no surprises down the 
 road - such as additional Oracle support fees or Oracle claiming that we don't have 
 this new box licensed, etc.  How can the vendor prove that they are providing a 
 license?  When I asked them for some type of proof, they forward the OLSA to me, 
 which is basically generic - it doesn't tell me if the license is SE, EE, SE One, 
 perpertual, term, CPU, Named User, etc.  Any thoughts or do I just take their word 
 for it?

 Thanks,
 Jay

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Re: Performance tuning in complex environment

DBAs should never 'guess' about performance. If they are guessing you need new DBAs. 

They should be running statspacks, sql trace, and looking at timing data. 

Its too much to explain in an email. Fire your DBAs and find people who dont 'guess'. 
How much are you paying these guys? 

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/11 Thu PM 01:34:52 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Performance tuning in complex environment

 Hello Everyone, I am trying to get some help/suggestions reg. how to troubleshoot 
 performance issues.

 Little back ground about our environment. Its third party application (Logician) 
 from GE. There are total 11 databases, all on oracle 8174 H-UX 11i in cluster 
 environment. All the databases are on EMC Symmetrix using 6 disks. All the clients 
 are connecting to database thru Citrix terminal servers. 
 In last one year we spend lots of time/money in tuning databases, replacing Citrix 
 servers but end result is same. I was wondering if anybody out there has ran into 
 same kind of situation. Our (DBAs) guess is the disk layout is not optimal but we 
 also dont have any data to prove that disks are the bottleneck. Is there any way to 
 collect these kinds of stats in Oracle. We aren't getting much help from our SAN 
 administrator.

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tuning for throughput vs. tuning for response time

2003-12-10 Thread ryan_oracle

Has anyone else notice that these two can be somewhat different? In a high transaction 
system, I typiucal try to reduce LIOs when I write queries.

For last 6-8 months, Ive been doing alot of ETL and nightly batch data loads. Ive 
found that there are times when I can improve response time by 20-30%(which can be 
significant in a batch process) and at the same time increasing LIOs by the same 
amount. Ive found this to be the case with large index fast full scans. Unfortunately, 
I forgot to save the test cases. Im not concerned about scaling up users here. 

Has anyone else noticed this? 

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Re: 24 x 7 x 365

2003-12-10 Thread ryan_oracle

i was at an oracle group meeting and one of the RAC specialists at oracle was talking.
he said that that kind of thing 'can' be done, but is incredibly expensive. you need
redundancy and fail safes like crazy.

any time you do an upgrade, bad things may happen.

From: Tracy Rahmlow [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 2003/12/10 Wed AM 11:44:25 EST
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: 24 x 7 x 365

Hello,
Our company would like to know whether or not Oracle supports true
24x7x365 availability for an oltp database. We currently are using the
8.1.7 enterprise edition. Does an architecture exist whereby we can
upgrade the database and/or operating system and not cause an outage? Will
RAC solve this issue? Are there any other areas of concerns that I should
be thinking about? For example, analyzing with the validate clause and
its impacts on the transaction system. Thanks
American Express made the following
annotations on 12/10/2003 09:41:15 AM
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communication in error, please notify us by reply e-mail and immediately and
permanently delete this message and any attachments. Thank you.

Hello,
Our company would like to know whether or not Oracle supports true 24x7x365 availability for an oltp database. We currently are using the 8.1.7 enterprise edition. Does an architecture exist whereby we can upgrade the database and/or operating system and not cause an outage? Will RAC solve this issue? Are there any other areas of concerns that I should be thinking about? For example, analyzing with the validate clause and its impacts on the transaction system. Thanks
American Express made the following
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OS calls with java stored procedures

2003-12-09 Thread ryan_oracle

Im playing with the example in tom kytes book. we have alot of korn shell scripts that 
we use as functions. 

We 'echo' out values to standard out. is there anyway to catch this echo with a java 
stored procedure? I thought about redirecting it to a file and reading it in with 
utl_file, but that makes it more complex. 

any other way to do this? 

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Re: RE: PERL?

2003-12-08 Thread ryan_oracle

what do you mean by sophisticated I/O?

 From: Cary Millsap [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/07 Sun PM 11:59:25 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: PERL?

 You'll get much more comprehensive answers than mine, but a few huge
 motives for me are.

 -  You can't do I/O-especially sophisticated interactive
 I/O-conveniently in SQL*Plus or PL/SQL.

 -  More generally, SQL restricts your viewpoint to what's inside
 the database. As a performance analyst, I need a language in which I can
 do text processing, mathematical processing, and especially experiments
 with the same OS calls that Oracle uses. You can even attach directly to
 the Oracle SGA with Perl, where you can get x$ information without using
 SQL. (I don't do it, but it can be done.)

 -  Perl regular expression processing is spectacular compared to
 anything else out there; this is critical for text processing (lexical
 analysis and parsing).

 -  Perl is more portable, more easily extensible, and better
 supported with lots of interesting open source libraries than Unix
 shells.

 Cary Millsap
 Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
 http://www.hotsos.com

 Upcoming events:
 - Performance http://www.hotsos.com/training/PD101.html  Diagnosis
 101: 12/16 Detroit, 1/27 Atlanta
 - SQL Optimization 101: 12/8 Dallas, 2/16 Dallas
 - Hotsos Symposium 2004 http://www.hotsos.com/events/symposium/2004 :
 March 7-10 Dallas
 - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...

 -Original Message-
 KENNETH JANUSZ
 Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 9:34 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 I've read a lot about PERL on this list.  And, I am wondering what can
 you do with PERL that you cannot do with SQL*Plus, PL/SQL or Unix shell
 scripts?  

 Any information will be greatly appreciated.

 Thanks much,

 Ken Janusz, CPIM

Youll get much more comprehensive
answers than mine, but a few huge motives for me are

-
You cant do I/Oespecially
sophisticated interactive I/Oconveniently in SQL*Plus or PL/SQL.

-
More generally, SQL
restricts your viewpoint to whats inside the database. As a performance
analyst, I need a language in which I can do text processing, mathematical
processing, and especially experiments with the same OS calls that Oracle uses.
You can even attach directly to the Oracle SGA with Perl, where you can get x$
information without using SQL. (I dont do it, but it can be done.)

-
Perl regular _expression_ processing
is spectacular compared to anything else out there; this is critical for text
processing (lexical analysis and parsing).

-
Perl is more portable,
more easily extensible, and better supported with lots of interesting open
source libraries than Unix shells.

Cary Millsap
Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
http://www.hotsos.com

Upcoming events:
- Performance
Diagnosis101: 12/16 Detroit, 1/27 Atlanta
- SQL Optimization101: 12/8 Dallas, 2/16 Dallas
- Hotsos Symposium 2004:
March 710 Dallas
- Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule
details...

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of KENNETH
JANUSZ
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003
9:34 PM
To: Multiple recipients of list
ORACLE-L
Subject: PERL?

I'veread a lot about PERL on this list. And, I am
wondering what can you do with PERL that you cannot do with SQL*Plus, PL/SQL or
Unix shell scripts? 

Any information will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks much,

Ken Janusz, CPIM

Re: Database management techniques and frameworks

2003-12-05 Thread ryan_oracle

We have about 20-25 instances here. Nearly all on SUN. I dont touch the ones on 
windows. I also have development responsibilities, so I dont have time for a 
checklist.  

you need to automate tasks. You cant spend your time reading the alert log. you should 
poll it and get an email when something pops up. Same with chained rows, tablespace 
sizes, etc... Write scripts for this and send your self emails. 

Have statspack snapshots run daily. 

 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/05 Fri PM 01:49:30 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Database management techniques and frameworks
 
 Folks,
 
 I thought it'd be interesting to take a survey on what techniques and 
 frameworks DBA's on this list use to manage their Oracle databases.  I 
 imagine that some of us manage only a single database and instance, but in 
 those configurations where there are many instances, multiple databases, 
 different platforms/versions, etc., what are some of the strategies for 
 management in place?  What daily tasks do you perform, and how do you 
 organize them?  How do you manage user requests (individually or as part 
 of a larger environment)?  How do you handle jobs?  Organization 
 techniques?  Naming standards?  User/application deployment framework, 
 etc., etc.?
 
 (Obviously we could write a book about this -- there's an idea! -- but 
 summaries and pointers would be interesting.  Perhaps we can come up with 
 a best practices document and associated framework for Oracle database 
 management.)
 
 Thanks,
 
 Adam
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Re: RE: java package to run OS command

expert one on one. check asktom.oracle.com might be on there also. 

 From: John Dunn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/04 Thu AM 09:44:29 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: java package to run OS command

 Which book is that?

 -Original Message-
 Sent: 04 December 2003 14:35
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 its in tom kytes first book. might be on his webpage. 

  From: John Dunn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: 2003/12/04 Thu AM 08:49:25 EST
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: java package to run OS command

  I need a java package that will allow me to run OS commands(Unix) from a
  stored procedure.

  Anyone got one?

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Re: Varray Problem

cost is irrelevant. ignore it. it doesnt matter. its internal for oracle. what docs 
are you using that say to use cost? none from oracle. they dont exist. 

have your Logical I/Os gone up? Has your response time gone up? 

I can guess as to why its more 'costly'? By accessing the varray do you do this:

SELECT VARRAY
FROM TABLE

Or 

SELECT COLS
FROM TABLE
WHERE VARRAY = Some value

VARRAY isnt atomic. Oracle has to do more work in retrieving it. Its a different data 
structure than a standard row. 

however, ignore the cost. Its completely useless. Show me any credible documentation 
that says to use the cost and not just some person who wrote an article on some 
website. 
 
 From: B3D70 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/04 Thu AM 05:12:16 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Varray Problem
 
 Hi there ...
 I have a table with a Varray Columns.
 When I used a select operation without access the varray columns the 
 explain plan show fine.. cost = 4
 but when I access the Varray columns then I got the cost = 1310
 
 Why ? What happend ? and why oracle did it ?
 Someone can explain it to me ?
 or how shoud I optimized it ?
 
 this is my query without varrary
 SELECT   a.id,
   a.address
 FROM my_table a
 
 Operation   Object Name RowsBytes   Cost
 SELECT STATEMENT 
 Hint=CHOOSE3   4 
 
SORT GROUP 
 BY 3   60  4 
 
  TABLE ACCESS 
 FULL   MY_TABLE9   180 2 
 
 
 
 this is my query with varrary
 SELECT   a.id,
   a.address
 FROM my_table a, TABLE(a.no_of_car) b
 
 Operation Object Name   RowsBytes   Cost
 SELECT STATEMENT 
 Hint=CHOOSE3   1310 
 
SORT GROUP 
 BY 3   459 1310 
 
  NESTED LOOPS73 K10 
 M101
TABLE ACCESS FULL MY_TABLE9   1 
 K 2
COLLECTION ITERATOR PICKLER 
 FETCH
 
 
 regards
 kang bedjo 
 


Hi there ...
I have a table with a Varray Columns. 
When I used a select operation without access the varray columns the
explain plan show fine.. cost = 4
but when I access the Varray columns then I got the cost = 1310
Why ? What happend ? and why oracle did it ?
Someone can explain it to me ?
or how shoud I optimized it ?
this is my query without varrary
SELECT
a.id,
 a.address
FROM
my_table a
OperationObject
NameRowsBytesCost
SELECT STATEMENT
Hint=CHOOSE3

4 
 SORT GROUP BY3 60 4 
 TABLE ACCESS FULLMY_TABLE9 180 2 

this is my query with varrary
SELECT a.id,
 a.address
FROM my_table a, TABLE(a.no_of_car) b
Operation Object NameRowsBytesCost
SELECT STATEMENT Hint=CHOOSE3  1310 
 SORT GROUP BY3 459 1310 
 NESTED LOOPS73 K10 M101 
 TABLE ACCESS FULLMY_TABLE9 1 K2 
 COLLECTION ITERATOR PICKLER FETCH   

regards
kang bedjo

RMAN questions

We have both 8i and 9i instances, but 'eventually' plan to migrate everything to 9i. 
I'm looking at using RMAN for our backup and recovery. We have many instances but 
essentially 2 types.

1. Production instances that have both OLAP and OLTP. These must be in archive log 
mode.
2. We have staging instances where we do data loads. We do not put these in archive 
log mode for obvious reasons. We do our backups of these with transportable 
tablespaces and running dbverify. 

We also have 2 locations. One is remote. Its not practical to store our backups from 
the remote location at our local location or vice versa. So we will need 2 seperate 
RMAN setups. 

I have seen that some people like to use two instances that have RMAN. Many people 
will just put the RMAN catalog in an existing instance. Is that really a good idea? 
The idea behind two instances is that they can back each other up. Is that really 
enough? You can lose both instances, then your backup sets are useless. We have a 
shared NAS, so each location uses the same set of storage. We do backup to tape as 
well. 

Any suggestions would be appreciated. I can handle the scripting my self. Im just 
looking for a viable plan. 

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Re: RE: RMAN questions

i must have misread the docs. i thought it was either catalog or control file. didnt 
know you could do both
thanks. 

 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/04 Thu AM 11:04:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: RMAN questions

 I suppose just how much redundancy makes you sleep well is up to you.  But,
 one additional bit of info to keep in mind is that the backup info also gets
 stored in the control files, and rman can use those too if no catalog
 database is available.  Making a copy of a control file after the backup
 finishes, and saving that copy, can be a part of the rman backup.  That way,
 if you lost all control files and your catalog database, rman can use your
 saved control file copy get back at least most, if not all, of your stuff.

  -Original Message-

  Any suggestions would be appreciated. I can handle the 
  scripting my self. Im just looking for a viable plan. 

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wait events that indicate lack of bind variables

Which wait events are indications that your missing bind variables? 

btw, if you want to implement bind variables through a c/c++ middle tier its best to 
use 'prepared statements'. correct? 

bind arrays can be issued as prepared statements right? This is when you need to do 
alot of inserts from the middle tier to the database with just one pass to the 
database. 

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Re: RE: partitioning option licensing

never pay retail with oracle licensing. who pays the full $10k? If your buying other 
stuff you should be able to knock off alot. Never pay the full amount. 

 From: David Wagoner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/03 Wed AM 09:24:38 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: partitioning option licensing

 As of 9iR2, partitioning is still licensed separately as a $10K (retail)
 extra charge per processor.  So, the total retail comes to a painful $50K
 per processor for 9i + Partitioning.  Also, remember that support costs X%
 of the licensing per year, depending on your support level.  You'll have to
 confirm the exact numbers with your sales rep.  You can estimate about 22%,
 as I recall.

 We just increased our licensing a few months ago.  Get the fastest
 processors you can.

 Anyone know how 10g will be licensed?

 Best regards,

 David B. Wagoner
 Database Administrator
 Arsenal Digital Solutions
 Web: http://www.arsenaldigital.com

 the most trusted source for
 STORAGE MANAGEMENT SERVICES

 The contents of this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential.
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 Thank you.

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 8:54 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 Hi,
 We're looking into migrating from SQL server to Oracle. Does anyone know if 
 Partitioning option is still licensed separately?

 Thanks.

 pat

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Title: RE: partitioning option licensing

As of 9iR2, partitioning is still licensed separately as a $10K (retail) extra charge per processor. So, the total retail comes to a painful $50K per processor for 9i + Partitioning. Also, remember that support costs X% of the licensing per year, depending on your support level. You'll have to confirm the exact numbers with your sales rep. You can estimate about 22%, as I recall.

We just increased our licensing a few months ago. Get the fastest processors you can.

Anyone know how 10g will be licensed?

Best regards,

David B. Wagoner
Database Administrator
Arsenal Digital Solutions
Web: http://www.arsenaldigital.com

the most trusted source for
 STORAGE MANAGEMENT SERVICES

The contents of this e-mail message may be privileged and/or confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, any review, dissemination, copying, distribution or other use of the contents of this message or any attachment by you is strictly prohibited. If you receive this communication in error, please notify us immediately by return e-mail or by telephone (919-466-6700), and please delete this message and all attachments from your system. 

Thank you.

-Original Message-
From: Patricia Zhu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2003 8:54 AM
To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
Subject: partitioning option licensing

Hi,
We're looking into migrating from SQL server to Oracle. Does anyone know if 
Partitioning option is still licensed separately?

Thanks.

pat

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what is the difference between shared nothing and shared everything?

this has to do with RAC right? oracle uses shared everything and ibm uses shared 
nothing right? 

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what happened to baarf.net?

anyone got the articles about why raid 5 is bad for databases?

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Re: ORACLE JOINS CERN OPENLAB TO ADVANCE GRID COMPUTING

are you using a grid at stanford? how much data do they have at CERN? 

 From: MacGregor, Ian A. [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/03 Wed PM 02:49:32 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: ORACLE JOINS CERN OPENLAB TO ADVANCE GRID COMPUTING

 http://www.interactions.org/cms/?pid=1008211

 Ian MacGregor
 Stanford Linear Accelerator Center
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running both shared server and dedicated mode on the same instance

i think this is possible. any docs on how to set this up with suggested methods? 

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Re: Re: running both shared server and dedicated mode on the same instance

what if you have a web based architecture? is there a way to have 9iAS decide which 
connection to use? 

 From: Tanel Poder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/02 Tue AM 07:34:25 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: running both shared server and dedicated mode on the same instance

 You just set up shared servers on your environment and include
 (SERVER=DEDICATED) in those clients tnsnames entries CONNECT_DATA sections
 who want to use dedicated servers.

 Tanel.

 - Original Message - 
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 2:24 PM

  i think this is possible. any docs on how to set this up with suggested
 methods?

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Re: Re: SESSION_CACHED_CURSORS -- RE: Parse Vs Execute

what causes memory fragmentation errors? should oracle be able to go to the LRU and 
start kicking stuff out of memory if there isnt enough space? 

 From: Tanel Poder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/02 Tue PM 12:39:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: SESSION_CACHED_CURSORS  -- RE: Parse Vs Execute

 Mladen,

 I don't think it's SMON who is coalescing free memory extents. I'm not
 entirely sure here, but I think if any server process explicitly frees a
 freeable chunk, then the 16-byte header of immediate next chunk is checked,
 if this is also free both chunks are coalesced and header of next chunk is
 checked and so on. When no more adjacent free chunks are found, shared pool
 freelists are updated. This is called forward coalescing (not to be confused
 with on-disk segment extent forward coalescing), Ixora also mentions a bit
 about them.

 This all is done by the server process who is freeing the chunk, not SMON
 (SMONs sleep interval is too long for this kind of critical operation
 anyway).

 Also, when a process tries to allocate memory from shared pool and there are
 no sufficiently large free chunks left, then the process goes to shared pool
 LRU list to find unpinned recreatable chunks and uses callback through the
 kernel stack to find the owner of the chunk and free it appropriately.
 When freeing chunk for new allocation like that, here we might also have
 forward coalescing going on (adjacent free space is coalesced before
 allocated to new process).

 Actually, I'm not sure whether this callback is real callback up the
 kernel stack or is a separate context estabilished for it like Steve Adams
 describes for data and transaction layer in the beginning of his book.
 Estabilishing a separate call context for such a low level operation seems
 quite expensive. If anyone knows about this, please let us know ;)

 Mladen, another way for circumventing excessive memory usage in shared pool,
 in addition to cursor_sharing, is to tell TFDs to use bind variables
 appropriately ;)

 Tanel.

 - Original Message - 
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 2003 5:49 PM

  That was my understanding, too. The problem with unpinning only at
  the specific close is that smon cannot free shared pool memory belonging
  to the cursor if the cursor is pinned, so the shared pool usage
 skyrockets.
  The only way to circumvent the problem is to set CURSOR_SHARING to FORCE.
  That is also fraught with danger, but what the heck, we are the DBAs, we
 want
  to live dangerously.

  On 12/02/2003 04:59:33 AM, Tanel Poder wrote:
   Jonathan,

   I've understood that when cursor_space_for_time is true, then unpin is
 only
   done when cursor is closed, thus there's no need for pinning/unpinning
 for
   every execution of a cursor. This should reduce hits on library cache
   latches since pinning is not done so often?

   Hermant,

   I've sometimes seen this parameter recommended when having library cache
   latching issues in large Apps installations, I have not used it myself
 in
   Apps though.

   Also note, that cursor_space_for_time requires 50-100% larger
 shared_pool
   (and some more private SQL area in PGA, shared_pool or large_pool,
 depending
   on configuration), since shared cursor's frames can't be aged out from
   library cache until all corresponding cursors are closed (normally if
   there's not enough free memory in shared pool when parsing a new
 statement,
   some unpinned, but open cursors can be thrown out, but with
   cursor_space_for_time they can't be).

   So, if you don't find any better cure and decide to use this parameter,
 you
   should first increase your shared pool quite much to avoid ORA-4031
 errors
   and then start reducing in small amounts, based on v$librarycache,
   v$rowcache, x$kghlu and shared pool/library cache latch wait statistics.
   It's not good idea to leave shared pool too large, otherwise your memory
   allocations from there (hard parses for example) will get slow (shared
 pool
   latch (or latches in 9i) are kept too long when searching for
   free/recreatable chunks).

   Tanel.

   - Original Message - 
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2003 9:34 PM

You still have to hit the library cache to execute
a statement as it needs to be pinned in share mode,
and unpinned when you finish with it.  Library cache
latch waits can be a symptom of excessive executions.

Have you checked the library cache latch children
to see if the load is evenly balanced, or whether there
is a single library cache latch that is suffering most of
the sleeps.

Good news for 9.2 - v$sql, and a couple of others
include the library cache child latch number, so you
can see which objects are protected by the hot latch
without having to use Steve's

Re: Re: Anyone run into this strange ORA-00904 error ??

i believe column privileges are only for dml. views are supposed to filter out columns 
for selects. i could be wrong. 

 From: Krishna Kakatur [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/02 Tue PM 12:34:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Anyone run into this strange ORA-00904 error ??

 Did you check grants on the table?

 This happens sometimes, with some oracle versions, 
 in the following situation:

 step1: user1 creates tab1 and
grants all to user2. (without grant option)
 step2: user2 creates view1 based on tab1
and grants all to user3.

 Now, when user3 tries to access view1 he gets this kind of error.

 This can be resolved by issuing the foll sql in step1

 GRANT ALL ON tab1 TO user2 WITH ADMIN OPTION;

 -- 
 Thanks,
 Krishna

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  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  We started having a weird problem that looks like some kind of data dictionary 
  corruption.

  My first choice is to run catalog / catproc. This did nothing to resolve the 
  problem.

  Why am I able to describe an object, but get ORA-00904 when I try to select from 
  the table...

  SQL desc ispownre3.individual_names;
   Name  Null?Type
   -  --
   INTERNAL_IDENTIFIERNUMBER(12)
   TITLE_CD   NUMBER(3)
  . . .

  SQL select * from ispownre3.individual_names;
  select * from ispownre3.individual_names
   *
  ERROR at line 1:
  ORA-00904: invalid column name
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Re: Software Engineer/DBA needed in Southwest Ohio

2003-12-01 Thread ryan_oracle

im assuming this means you want a software engineer who knows a little oracle right? 
you cnat be an expert in both.

Ive seen more and more jobs like this and less and less oracle specialist positions. 
Its troubling. 

 From: Dave Phillips [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/12/01 Mon AM 08:59:25 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Software Engineer/DBA needed in Southwest Ohio

 I would like to thank Jared for allowing me to post this on the list.

 We have an opening for a Software Engineer/DBA in southwest Ohio. Our
 software can use Oracle or SQL Server for the database engine. Front end
 is MS tools (Visual Basic, VBC++, C, C++ and .NET.) Basic information
 from HR is provided below. For more detailed information contact me off
 list at [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 ---
 Oracle DBA / Software Engineer 

 Summary: 
 Develops, designs, and documents computer software under general
 supervision. Uses skills and knowledge of company policies, procedures,
 services, and applications to solve a variety of problems: Works on
 problems of diverse scope which may require in depth analysis. Moderate
 to advanced working knowledge of Oracle and general programming
 applications. Exercises judgment within established practices and
 procedures to determine appropriate action: receives moderate guidance
 from manager. 

 Qualifications: 
 Four year college degree and two years related experience and/or
 training; or equivalent combination of education and experience. The
 Software engineer is expected to have a general understanding of
 programming concepts, system design, and a working knowledge of one or
 more of the following: Visual Basic, VBC++, C, C++ and .NET. The
 Software engineer is expected to have prior Oracle experience and Oracle
 DBA Certification (8i,9i). 

 (Unix experience would be a plus.) 
 --
 David Phillips 
 Support DBA 
 Gasper Corporation 
 937-445-1382 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Semi-OT...dbazine

2003-11-28 Thread ryan_oracle

maybe its running on sql server? 

 From: Connor McDonald [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/11/28 Fri AM 08:34:25 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Semi-OT...dbazine

 Anyone noticed www.dbazine.com...

 This domain has temporarily been disabled.
 To restore the domain, contact your Customer Support.

 Ooops...

 =
 Connor McDonald
 web: http://www.oracledba.co.uk
 web: http://www.oaktable.net
 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 GIVE a man a fish and he will eat for a day. But TEACH him how to fish, and...he 
 will sit in a boat and drink beer all day

 Download Yahoo! Messenger now for a chance to win Live At Knebworth DVDs
 http://www.yahoo.co.uk/robbiewilliams
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when do you use v$statname?

This view seems to be a smaller subset of v$sysstat? When is it useful? 

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Re: RE: when do you use v$statname?

both store that info

SQL  desc v$statname
 Name  Null?Type
 -  
 STATISTIC# NUMBER
 NAME   VARCHAR2(64)
 CLASS  NUMBER

SQL desc v$sysstat
 Name  Null?Type
 -  
 STATISTIC# NUMBER
 NAME   VARCHAR2(64)
 CLASS  NUMBER
 VALUE  NUMBER

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Re: RE: when do you use v$statname?

v$sysstat has the NAME column also? 

 From: Hately, Mike (LogicaCMG) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/11/26 Wed AM 08:34:26 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: when do you use v$statname?

 v$statname is a lookup table for the statistic# that appears in v$sesstat
 and v$sysstat. You use it in most queries on those tables unless you're
 named Tanel and have memorised the statistic numbers.  =)

 Cheers,
 Mike Hately

 -Original Message-
 Sent: 26 November 2003 13:24
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 This view seems to be a smaller subset of v$sysstat? When is it useful? 

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RE: RE: when do you use v$statname?

right, then why do we have v$statname? 

 From: Jamadagni, Rajendra [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/11/26 Wed AM 08:44:25 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: RE: when do you use v$statname?

 but only v$sysstat has the value column ...

 Raj

 Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
 All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
 QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 8:39 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 both store that info

 SQL  desc v$statname
  Name  Null?Type
  -  
  STATISTIC# NUMBER
  NAME   VARCHAR2(64)
  CLASS  NUMBER

 SQL desc v$sysstat
  Name  Null?Type
  -  
  STATISTIC# NUMBER
  NAME   VARCHAR2(64)
  CLASS  NUMBER
  VALUE  NUMBER

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Re: ORA-1000 and pl/sql cursor cache

are you looking for the init.ora max_open_cursors(dont think i typed it exactly right).

even if the cursors are cached, they should not be counted as open. they doesnt make 
sense from an oracle design standpoint. 

 From: Lord David [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/11/26 Wed AM 10:34:34 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: ORA-1000 and pl/sql cursor cache

 Hi

 Does anyone know whether its possible to control the size of the pl/sql
 static cursor cache.

 I'm running into ORA-01000: maximum number of open cursors exceeded errors
 and part of the problem (apart from the usual developers not closing
 explicit cursors) is that _all_ static sql statements in compiled pl/sql
 units seem to be getting cached.  I can't find any documentation of this
 feature apart from a few hints in the pl/sql and application development
 docs.  Here's an example from an 8.1.7 database: -

 SQLcreate or replace procedure foobar is
   2 v_result varchar2(30);
   3  begin
   4 select user into v_result from dual;
   5  end;
   6  /

 Procedure created.

 SQL
 SQLselect b.sql_text
   2  from v$session a, v$open_cursor b
   3  where a.sid = b.sid
   4  and a.audsid = userenv('SESSIONID')
   5  /

 SQL_TEXT

 SELECT SYS_CONTEXT(:b1,:b2)   FROM SYS.DUAL
 select b.sql_text from v$session a, v$open_cursor b where a.

 SQL
 SQLexec foobar

 PL/SQL procedure successfully completed.

 SQL
 SQLselect b.sql_text
   2  from v$session a, v$open_cursor b
   3  where a.sid = b.sid
   4  and a.audsid = userenv('SESSIONID')
   5  /

 SQL_TEXT

 SELECT SYS_CONTEXT(:b1,:b2)   FROM SYS.DUAL
 select b.sql_text from v$session a, v$open_cursor b where a.
 SELECT USER   FROM DUAL

 TIA
 --
 David Lord
 Senior DBA
 Iron Mountain Europe

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Re: RE: Parse Vs Execute

i remember in tom kytes new book there is a 'softer parse' he was referring to using 
dbms_sql instead of execute immediate. Im not referring to using dbms_sql when you 
have to loop and use the same cursor repeatedly so you eliminate all parsing. 

he didnt go into great detail on this just gave benchmarks. do you know anymore? 

 From: Cary Millsap [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/11/26 Wed PM 02:39:39 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: Parse Vs Execute

 Don't do this:

   Loop
   Parse
   Execute
   Fetch
   End loop

 Do this:

   Parse
   Loop
   Execute
   Fetch
   End loop

 If you parse inside your loop, then all that using bind variables will
 gain you is a reduced hard parse count. If you parse outside the loop
 (in which case, you MUST use bind variables), then you reduce your
 number of parse calls. A soft parse is a little cheaper than a hard
 parse. NO PARSE is a lot cheaper than a soft parse.

 Cary Millsap
 Hotsos Enterprises, Ltd.
 http://www.hotsos.com

 Upcoming events:
 - Performance Diagnosis 101: 12/16 Detroit, 1/27 Atlanta
 - SQL Optimization 101: 12/8 Dallas, 2/16 Dallas
 - Hotsos Symposium 2004: March 7-10 Dallas
 - Visit www.hotsos.com for schedule details...

 -Original Message-
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2003 12:14 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 Hi List,

 Almost fro all SQLs I am getting Prase count is same as Execute count.
 How to reduce parse count?

 1) We are using bind variable
 2) session_cached_cursors set to 100

   call count   cpuelapsed   disk  querycurrent
 rows
 --- --   -- -- -- --
 --
 Parse   11  0.01   0.02  0  0  0
 0
 Execute 11  0.00   0.00  0  0  0
 0
 Fetch   22  0.01   0.00  0 33 44
 110
 --- --   -- -- -- --
 --
 total   44  0.02   0.02  0 33 44
 110

 Any somebody give more hint on this?

 Thanks
 Jay

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Re: Beginning of a global unravelling?

2003-11-25 Thread ryan_oracle

i heard it was just the corporate call centers coming back? not the private call 
centers? 

dell tech support isnt any good no matter where it is. its just an entry level 
position. The guys who get good move up or on to other things. gateway is bad too. 

 From: Bellow, Bambi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/11/25 Tue PM 12:49:31 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Beginning of a global unravelling?

 Friends --

 Looks like Dell is moving call centers from India to Texas and Tennessee.
 Seems that the folks in India, while very polite, have thick accents.  Um.
 Thick, non-Texan, accents.  Anyway, this may bode well for us technical
 folks if this [and the previously discussed article] are the beginning of a
 bring the tech jobs back trend.  This may imply that we are [temporarily]
 moving away from a globalized technical labor force (and therefore global
 wage equilibrium).  Of course, it could mean nothing beyond what it says.
 Time will tell.  In the meantime, here's the link.

 Enjoy!
 Bambi.

 http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/11/24/dell.call.centers.ap/index.html
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what is oracle rdb?

2003-11-24 Thread ryan_oracle

I see it referred to on metalink alot. I know its seperate from the rdbms. 

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Re: RE: Development vs. Production DBA

2003-11-21 Thread ryan_oracle

the arrogance here is troubling. though there seems to be more incompetent developers 
who do not know the database I have worked with my share of incompetent DBAs. Havent 
used anything since versoin 5.0 and so on. Dont know anything at all about 
development. 

If a production DBA knows development, fine, their opinion is valuable, if they are an 
SA/DBA who cant code, cant design a system, then their opinion is not very valuable. 
Ive seen lots of silly roadmaps put up by production DBAs who dont know nearly as much 
as lead on. 

What large enterprise systems need is an experienced Systems Architect. Im not one of 
those, but they do wonders for projects and they should work with the DBA to decide 
the best way to implement something.


 
 From: Boivin, Patrice J [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/11/21 Fri AM 07:12:13 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: Development vs. Production DBA
 
 LOL -- developers deciding architecture design.  Never really involved in
 implementing anything, all conceptual.
 
 I am what you call a production DBA, my personal bias on this is that
 leaving architecture decisions to developers could be a mistake, if you
 think long term.  The Production DBA should be involved, and should have the
 ability to veto any hair-brained scheme that is proposed.
 
 Patrice.
 
 -Original Message-
 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 12:20 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
 
 
 I don't know about a paper, but I've always made a distinction
 between these types of DBAs as well.  
 
 Development DBA responsibilities:
 - initial DB design
 - data modelling, data dictionary creation
 - naming standards, datatype standards
 - sql development
 - working w/ front end developers, tuning queries 
 - data load, legacy to current
 
 Production DBA responsibilties:
 - day to day administrative support: adding users, creating
 schemas, moving objects around
 - backup/recovery
 - disaster recovery
 - monitoring
 - Troubleshooting, working with Oracle Tech Support
 - Database PT concerns: buffer pools, tablespace objects, etc.
 
 
 I would NOT force developers to funnel through the DBA to create objects
 in development.  What a roadblock that could be.  Instead, have the dba
 be available as a resource to the developers to handle query tuning
 concerns, answer SQL questions and the like.
 
 my 2 cents.
 
 Boss
 
 
 
  
  Group,
  If this was discussed before, I missed it.
  There is a discussion going on trying to define the duties of a
 development
  vs. production DBA and where in-depth DBA involvement should occur. Is
 there
  any papers that anyone can share w/me on this subject. IMHO a DBA should
 be
  involved early on in the project to translate the functional requirements
  into a physical model using the features of the target version. I also
 think
  that it should be the DBA's job to create the packages, procedures and
  triggers in the development and testing phases. To me,this would
 facilitate
  the transition from testing to production. Our development DBA's are
  involved in the production side so are aware of our standards.
  Comments, opinions please.
  
  TIA
  
  Al Rusnak
  DBA - WEB Team/CISIS, Computer Operations
  
  * 804-734-8371
  * [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  
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  Please see the official ORACLE-L FAQ: http://www.orafaq.net
  -- 
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RE: RE: Development vs. Production DBA

2003-11-21 Thread ryan_oracle

i was on a project last year where the lead didnt let us make stored code. she thought 
it 'cluttered the database'. what can you do? lots of incompetence out there. worst 
when its the boss. 

 From: April Wells [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/11/21 Fri AM 09:54:33 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: RE: Development vs. Production DBA

 But if you make them stored procedures, you might be giving up some vestige
 of control.  CAN'T give up control... 

 April Wells
 Oracle DBA/Oracle Apps DBA
 Corporate Systems
 Amarillo Texas
   /\
  /   \
 / \
 \ /
   \/
   \
  \
  \
  \
 Few people really enjoy the simple pleasure of flying a kite
 Adam Wells age 11

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 8:40 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 I don't normally like to get into these turf battles, but in this case I
 have to agree with Patrice.  Most developers are looking strictly at their
 current project with no regard for anything they've done in the past or that
 others around them are doing.  Also I find that a significant number of
 developers have an attitude that what they did in the past is sufficient for
 the future  no new functionality in the database or elsewhere is needed.
 Believe it or not, we still have a test engineering programmer who uses
 Turbo Pascal.  My greatest frustration is people who demand to write
 applications strictly in a client server mode.  They see no benefit into
 encapsulating processes that are very database intensive into
 packages/procedures/functions.  So instead of one round trip to the database
 they have to do 30 or 40 and wonder why they can't get sub second response
 from their application.

 Dick Goulet
 Senior Oracle DBA
 Oracle Certified 8i DBA

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 9:14 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 not arrogance, experience.

 Granted, there are good developers out there.

 The tendency is to think only on a project by project basis in development
 because of the way developers sometimes get funding to sustain themselves.

 No offense was intended, it was a cautionary note nothing more.

 Patrice.

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Friday, November 21, 2003 8:54 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 the arrogance here is troubling. though there seems to be more incompetent
 developers who do not know the database I have worked with my share of
 incompetent DBAs. Havent used anything since versoin 5.0 and so on. Dont
 know anything at all about development. 

 If a production DBA knows development, fine, their opinion is valuable, if
 they are an SA/DBA who cant code, cant design a system, then their opinion
 is not very valuable. 
 Ive seen lots of silly roadmaps put up by production DBAs who dont know
 nearly as much as lead on. 

 What large enterprise systems need is an experienced Systems Architect. Im
 not one of those, but they do wonders for projects and they should work with
 the DBA to decide the best way to implement something.

  From: Boivin, Patrice J [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Date: 2003/11/21 Fri AM 07:12:13 EST
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Subject: RE: Development vs. Production DBA

  LOL -- developers deciding architecture design.  Never really involved in
  implementing anything, all conceptual.

  I am what you call a production DBA, my personal bias on this is that
  leaving architecture decisions to developers could be a mistake, if you
  think long term.  The Production DBA should be involved, and should have
 the
  ability to veto any hair-brained scheme that is proposed.

  Patrice.

  -Original Message-
  Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 12:20 PM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

  I don't know about a paper, but I've always made a distinction
  between these types of DBAs as well.  

  Development DBA responsibilities:
  - initial DB design
  - data modelling, data dictionary creation
  - naming standards, datatype standards
  - sql development
  - working w/ front end developers, tuning queries 
  - data load, legacy to current

  Production DBA responsibilties:
  - day to day administrative support: adding users, creating
  schemas, moving objects around
  - backup/recovery
  - disaster recovery
  - monitoring
  - Troubleshooting, working with Oracle Tech Support
  - Database PT concerns: buffer pools, tablespace objects, etc.

  I would NOT force developers to funnel through the DBA to create objects
  in development.  What a roadblock that could be.  Instead, have the dba
  be available as a resource to the developers to handle query tuning
  concerns, answer SQL questions and the like.

  my 2 cents.

  Boss

   Group,
   If this was discussed before, I missed it.
   There is a discussion going on trying to define the duties of a
  development
   vs.

Re: RE: Any articles/books that take relational theory and make it

how does dimensional modelling used by datawarehousing fit into relational theory? 

 From: Daniel Hanks [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/11/19 Wed PM 04:35:03 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: Any articles/books that take relational theory and make it

 Agreed. And I think you'll admit it's better to be familiar with and aware of the 
 theory, even if current db products don't live up to the model 100%, so you know to 
 bring up the kinds of issues you mention in the first place. In that sense, I think 
 the knowledge to be gained from Date, Darwen, Pascal, etc., can be very practical.

 -- Dan

 On Wed, 19 Nov 2003, Niall Litchfield wrote:

  I obviously can't speak for the list, but I find Fabian Pascal to be
  very interesting, but quite academic. What I *think* that I mean by this
  is that a lot of what he says seems to make theoretical sense, but I'm
  unsure how applicable it is to practice. IOW the general feel that I get
  from Fabian (and indeed Date) is that if something doesn't meet
  relational theory then it is flawed. This may well be a good default
  position to have, but I'm unprepared to say to folk who pay my wages
  'sorry your data model isn't in 3NF' or 'you shall not use a
  materialized view'. I *will* quite happily say 'so how will you ensure
  data integrity?' 'what happens if another program uses the same data' or
  'why did you use computed summaries?' 

  Niall 
   -Original Message-
   From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
   Behalf Of Daniel Hanks
   Sent: 19 November 2003 16:25
   To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L
   Subject: Re: Any articles/books that take relational theory 
   and make it

   On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

I swapped emails with a member of the list and Im having trouble 
seeing how you can take 3NF, BCNF, etc... and turn that into DBA 
speak. One of the guys told me that BCNF essentially means 
   you have a 
key that you can put a unique constraint on. Well that 
   makes this much 
easier to understand.

   Hrm, I thought a key, by definition, implied a unique constraint...

All my theory books just discuss theory. Anyone know some 
   that split 
the difference. IE, not Codd, not CJ Date, Not the academic 
   textbooks.

   I'm not sure what the opinion on Fabian Pascal is here on the 
   list, but I found his Practical issues in Database 
   Management to be very good. It's subtitled A reference for 
   the thinking practitioner. It's not a textbook, but it does 
   make you use your brain a bit. It might be what you're 
   looking for. It has helped to clarify the relational model 
   for me, but might put some people off as it's critical 
   (without naming specific products) of most current 
   implementations of 'relational' databases.

Thanks.

   -- Dan 
   ==
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orbitz fiasco

I was at an Oracle usergroup meeting last week and a guy at Oracle said the following 
happened. Can anyone confirm? Just curious.

1. Orbitz did an upgrade to some software other than Oracle. I think it was firmware. 
They did NOT test it first. Did it directly in production.

2. This corrupted a control file. They did multiplex their control files. 

3. However, they chose to restore the control file from tape. This invalidated their 
database.

4. So the delay was restoring the whole database from tape and rolling forward. 

Anyone know if that is what what happened? Wouldnt surprise me, however, it is 
Oracle's side of the story... 

I know atleast one other person from the list was there. I forget the guys name who 
said it. He is one the RAC specialists.  

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Re: Re: Any articles/books that take relational theory and make it

there are used copies for sale right on there. 

 From: KENNETH JANUSZ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/11/20 Thu AM 11:20:15 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: Re: Any articles/books that take relational theory and make it

 Unfortunately according to Amazon.com this book is out of print.

 Ken Janusz, CPIM

 - Original Message -
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 8:40 AM

  Data Modeling Essentials by Graeme C Simsion is a very good book.

  American Express made the following
   annotations on 11/19/2003 07:36:46 AM
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RE: RE: orbitz fiasco

the guy who spoke from oracle said that 9.2 is much better than 9.0.1 RAC. anyone use 
it? 

 From: Jesse, Rich [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/11/20 Thu PM 12:19:59 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: RE: orbitz fiasco

 The only thing high about 9.0.1 was the people who installed it to use in
 production.

 My 12-step process is now completed.  And I didn't even mention OiD once.
 :)

 Rich

 Rich Jesse   System/Database Administrator
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  Quad/Tech Inc, Sussex, WI USA

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 10:55 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 Was this on AIX by any chance ??

 Raj

 Rajendra dot Jamadagni at nospamespn dot com
 All Views expressed in this email are strictly personal.
 QOTD: Any clod can have facts, having an opinion is an art !

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 11:20 AM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 Btw, my colleague was working on a 9.0.1.3 RAC project where hang of one
 node caused hang of all other ones. Now that's high availability ;)

 Tanel.
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Re: RE: Any articles/books that take relational theory and make it

which noted O-O author said that about DBs? 

 From: DENNIS WILLIAMS [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Date: 2003/11/20 Thu PM 02:59:58 EST
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject: RE: Any articles/books that take relational theory and make it

 Paula - It may get worse. A noted O-O author said a database is just a
 means to persist an object. I also see a lot of young developers that
 haven't taken much Computer Science, so haven't been exposed to underlying
 theories like relational modeling. Well, we DBAs just have to be lights
 shining into the darkness.

 Dennis Williams
 DBA
 Lifetouch, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 -Original Message-
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 12:45 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 Why in an IT shop - do us DBA's only seem to understand this?  As I see it
 most programmers don't understanding data models at all!  It makes it easier
 for them to ignore the DBA's as being theoretical, academic 

 -Original Message-
 Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2003 1:30 PM
 To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

 Hear, hear!

 pb
 --- Michael Milligan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  As Date is want to say, Theory is practical! (Chapter One,
  Relational
  Database Writings 1991-1994).

  IMHO, a lack of understanding of relational database theory leads
  directly
  to database designs so flawed that they can't possibly allow their
  application to accomplish their goals. If you don't think in terms of
  functional dependencies, if you don't know the trade-offs in using
  nulls, if
  you don't why you want to put some attributes in one entity and
  others in
  others, you'll be in trouble. Some people call all of this theory.
  I see
  it as the fundamental principles that you'll be dead in the water
  without.

  If you don't know what the relational in RDBMS means (nothing to do
  with
  foreign keys), you'll make a bunch of mistakes over and over, knowing
  something is wrong but not able to put your finger on what's wrong.
  Then
  you'll limp along with an unfixable application, held together with
  prayers,
  and not able to deliver performance or even the right data. 

  I've been doing this for 17 years and I've seen it happen more times
  than I
  like to remember. My suggestion, my strong suggestion, is to learn
  the
  theory to such an extent that you'll know why a model is good or why
  it's
  flawed. If you don't know what a good model is, how can you possibly
  create
  one?

  Data modeling is hard work. There is no shortcut for it. There is
  also no
  shortcut for learning it. But you can learn from people who
  understand it
  well and can express it well, also. In my opinion, those names
  include C.J.
  Date, Hugh Darwen, Fabian Pascal, and a number of others.

  HTH

  Michael Milligan
  Oracle DBA
  Ingenix, Inc.
  2525 Lake Park Blvd.
  Salt Lake City, Utah 84120
  wrk 801-982-3081
  mbl 801-628-6058
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  -Original Message-
  Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2003 2:35 PM
  To: Multiple recipients of list ORACLE-L

  Agreed. And I think you'll admit it's better to be familiar with and
  aware
  of the theory, even if current db products don't live up to the model
  100%,
  so you know to bring up the kinds of issues you mention in the first
  place.
  In that sense, I think the knowledge to be gained from Date, Darwen,
  Pascal,
  etc., can be very practical.

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RE: RE: orbitz fiasco