Re: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max- Blender
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Dunhour, Mike (CIV) wrote: Hello Noticed in this discussion talk about Blender and .OSG So just thought I'd mention these Blender Papers I did for the Delta 3D Team to be found here http://www.delta3d.org/article.php?story=20051207101455773topic=docs located at the bottom of the page they go over the basics of running Blender and how to edit a .osg file kicked out of Blender. Might be of interest to some people out there Cool, that is interesting. However, you may want to add a part on fixing the absolute filename for the texture in the examples (file C:\3d\Blender2.43\Blender\images\bllt_sng.tga) - that is a fairly horrible thing to leave in, because such model will load right only on designer's machine or somewhere where the OSG_FILE_PATH is set up. We are putting the .osg file + textures using a relative path and packing everything into a .zip file. In that way things stay together and the model is easily transferable from one machine to another. Regards, Jan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mandriva - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHYFNGn11XseNj94gRAmgaAKDhPiHIWx1Vi6okBJF4Y1qCS1n5fACdEJlg ATUQY61TCbbTEiankuPVdUs= =xbDa -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max
Hi All, I haven't spotted Blender being mentioned, what are peoples impressions of using Blender these days? Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max
I haven't spotted Blender being mentioned, what are peoples impressions of using Blender these days? We used blender for architectural visualizations in our project: http://www.arthis.jyu.fi/bridge/jyu.php.html Producing LOD-information was the greatest hurdle, because there were no way to define those in Blender, but they had to be added manually (by editing osg-files). When it comes to actual modelling, if you just remember that Blender is not a CAD-program, then you'll be fine. Modelling tools are excellent and development cycle is furious. User interface is not intuitive, but it is very efficient. Also, I've understand that Blender's Collada exporter is quite good, although I haven't used that myself. Plus Blender has a good Python-API, that can be used to expand its capabilities. And of course, it is open-source :) Regards, Ari Häyrinen ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max
When it comes to actual modelling, if you just remember that Blender is not a CAD-program, then you'll be fine. Modelling tools are excellent and development cycle is furious. because you mentioned cad: http://www.caelinux.com/ CAElinux 2007 is now officially released This first stable release of CAELinux is now officially released: Thanks to the new PCLinuxOS 2007 distribution base and the unique Salome_Meca 2007 FEA suite, CAELinux 2007 represents a jump in stability and ease of use, and we hope that you will enjoy it. As usual, this release is available either as a installable liveDVD distribtion or under Windows with our preconfigured VMWare version The features / programs included in CAELinux 2007 distribution are the following: * LiveDVD distribution based on PClinuxOS 2007 (updated) * Runs directly from the DVD without any installation * Optional installation to hard disk in 3 easy steps * Dedicated to CAE and more specifically to finite element simulation * Includes the new integrated 3D pre-/ post / FE solver package SALOME_MECA 2007 (GPL, developped by EDF, France) which represents the fusion of Salome v3.2.6 GUI and Code-Aster v9.1 finite element solver (updated, GPL) * Offers a complete solution for CFD with OpenFOAM 1.4 , Gerris, Code-Saturne and Openflower solvers * Contains several 2D 3D CAD/pre/post packages: Paraview, Netgen, Tetgen, GMSH v2 (updated), Salome v.3.2.6 QCad * Includes other simulation softwares for multiphysics simulation: Elmer v5, Calculix v1.7 (updated), Tochnog, Impact (updated), MBDyn * Offers several scientific tools like GNU Octave + Forge, R Rkward, Scilab, wxMaxima and a full set of developpement tools / compilers. New: CAELinux has been selected by EDF to be part of the official distributors of SALOME-MECA. To use SALOME-MECA on your own Linux distribution, you can now download the stand-alone SALOME-MECA package from our download section. is anyone using it and tried to import models into osg? kind regards ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max
I thought Blender was much harder to learn and use. Even after a fair amount of practice I still couldn't be anywhere near as efficient as I was with Max or Creator. But you can't beat the price. Also, I tried working on osgexport, the Python Blender exporter to OSG, so that it would correctly export the test models I was making. Working on a complex exporter in Python was a serious pain in my neck. Maybe it was my lack of Python debugging skills, but I'd rather program in C/C++ any day. I'm curious what other people think about this. As I recall, there was some model information, such as texcoords, that would only be generated by Blender at render-time, so it was not available to be exported. This was what turned me off the most, since the only way to export completely would be to mimic some of Blender's internal algorithms in the exporter. - Terry Message: 14 Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:03:04 + From: Robert Osfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max To: OpenSceneGraph Users osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi All, I haven't spotted Blender being mentioned, what are peoples impressions of using Blender these days? Robert. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Terry Welsh wrote: I thought Blender was much harder to learn and use. Even after a fair amount of practice I still couldn't be anywhere near as efficient as I was with Max or Creator. But you can't beat the price. I think that is a matter of preference and experience (what you are used to). I am used to Blender and I have serious problems trying to work the cluttered interface in Max. On the other hand, I can understand that a seasoned Max user will be lost in Blender - the almost complete lack of menus, buttons, toolbars and other visual cues that are present in Max can be scary :) You need to know what and how to do, but once you learn the basics, it is a very efficient and consistent interface. Also, I tried working on osgexport, the Python Blender exporter to OSG, so that it would correctly export the test models I was making. Working on a complex exporter in Python was a serious pain in my neck. Maybe it was my lack of Python debugging skills, but I'd rather program in C/C++ any day. I'm curious what other people think about this. For me it is exactly the opposite. Making a quick exporter to dump a mesh with material settings or an animation is much easier and faster in Python than it ever could be in C/C++. You do not need to even restart Blender to load the new version of the exporter. Usually stuff that requires a page or two of C/C++ code can be done in two-three lines in Python. Especially complex manipulations, such as dealing with transformation hierarchies and such are a lot easier in Python. I wrote a BVH animation format importer in Python and I honestly cannot imagine doing all that parsing and calculation code in C++ - it would be a royal PITA. As I recall, there was some model information, such as texcoords, that would only be generated by Blender at render-time, so it was not available to be exported. This was what turned me off the most, since the only way to export completely would be to mimic some of Blender's internal algorithms in the exporter. I am not aware of this - I am routinely exporting models with texture coordinates and nothing like this is needed. What you NEED to do, though, is to texture your model correctly - by using UV mapping editor and not by relying on implicit mapping of Blender. In the latter case this info is used only by the internal renderer and is, of course, not exported. However, this is fairly well documented. Regards, Jan -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mandriva - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHXvl8n11XseNj94gRAmvXAKCGLC4xFmjEda5oMrR2m+cs3Xq1HACgzYvt 1nZoCebv2snKW6yRV4mOVe8= =TxVU -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
[osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max- Blender
Hello Noticed in this discussion talk about Blender and .OSG So just thought I'd mention these Blender Papers I did for the Delta 3D Team to be found here http://www.delta3d.org/article.php?story=20051207101455773topic=docs located at the bottom of the page they go over the basics of running Blender and how to edit a .osg file kicked out of Blender. Might be of interest to some people out there Mr. D ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max
Hi Robert, the points you and others mention are valid, and perhaps I was being too harsh in my first posting. Both products have their strengths and Creator is well suited to airport modeling and has unique capabilities for vis-sim that 3dsmax does not offer. Cheers, Daniel Robert Weldon wrote: Daniel I think you are missing something here. Creator and 3dsmax are both useful. 3dsmax is used more in gaming and design, but Creator is superior for real-time simulation applications.3dsMax just doesn't have the same focus. E.g., look at airport modeling: Creator has many features that make it an excellent solution for easily modeling airport models that are detailed and accurate. There is a whole lot of functionality to create accurate lighting systems and geospecific runways automatically from DAFIF data, LODS, etc. There are wizards to make this easy, and I find the interfaces both cleaner and easier to access. And, as you seem to agree in your second pointt, you can't beat the hierarchical and .flt support in Creator. robert. hi, first of all: the words modeling and creator should not appear in the same sentence :). probably you can use creator for cad tasks but thats all. the texturing tools are quite ok though... i would go with a combination of both. using 3dsmax for the model and creator to compose everything in a nice hierarchy. that's all i can say for now. cheers, daniel Loong Hin wrote: Hi, I've a flight simulator project running on OSG 2.2 whereby we need to model a geo-specific airport. We will need features like creating the airport lighting system, geo-specific buildings, multiple LODs. We are considering whether to use Multigen Creator or 3D Studio Max to do the job, any advice? Thanks a lot ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max
Just so everybody knows I have just unsubscribed the poster Bryan Bollard [EMAIL PROTECTED] for the inappropriate message he just sent. This mailing list is for discussion of OpenSceneGraph, any messages that go casting mud about any companies or people will be unsubscribed. This is third time in past six months that I have had to act and will again without hesitation. ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max
I would take Gordon Tomlinson's advice. He used to work at MPI and has good insight. See his previous post from his website at vis-sim.org Remo3D is really good, it is OSG but only problem is that the interface and look and feel is exactly like Creator. So as Daniel Holz pointed out if Creator and modeling cannot be used in the same sentence then Remo3D is probably of no used. So now with MPI dead, Collada is really the only way to go. I cant see a future for Openflight. As Paul Martz said about the acquisition of MPI How the mighty have fallen. Its great that the Openscenegraph community have contributed to this. Looks like our main competition is having a hard time. See thread below from \ vis-sim.com Joined: 19 Mar 2007 Posts: 16 Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:52 pm \ Post subject: \ \ Pixelpusher you are relying on MPI tools because you are probably forced to. \ Wouldnt you pick other tools if it were up to you ? Besides what do you disagree \ with that I have said or Urban Legend has said in his post about MPI becoming a \ bit player and not being able to pay the big bill that is coming due soon and \ their awful business practices and arrogant management ? Back to top UrbanLegend \ User Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 988 Location: USA / UK Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2007 4:58 pm Post subject: \ \ UrbanLegend User Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 945 Location: USA / UK Posted: Wed \ Dec 27, 2006 1:57 pm Post subject: Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: Changes in the vis-sim industry \ \ Lot of changes this year. Engenuity buying out Acusoft. MAk purchased by \ Singapore training, E amp; S bought by Rockwell, Parallax buying MPI. \ Wonder what 2007 is going to bring. Looks like E amp; S is doing pretty \ well under Rockwell. Speaking of MPI, the jungle drums inside MPI say that it \ was a pretty terrible year financially. Customers have sneered at the new \ products. That would mean more layoffs at MPI in January. The drums also say \ that Parallax is going to fire the CEO after the first of the year and talking \ to Stephen Gersuk about running the company. These are interesting times. Back \ to top UrbanLegend User Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 945 Location: USA / UK \ Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:57 pm Post subject: \ Interesting view point, Stephen is one of the brightess and most intelligent \ person in the Vis-sim world , he must really be laughing out loud, I highly \ doubt that he would touch MPI with a barge pole apart, maybe to wave good bye... \ _ Self defence is not a function of learning tricks but is \ a function of how quickly and intensely one can arouse one's instinct for \ survival - Master Tambo Tetsura Back to top simsim Guest Posted: Wed Dec \ 27, 2006 2:57 pm Post subject: \ \ i worked at MPI at that time. My understanding was that Stephen was a victim of \ devious underhanded scheming by the present CEO and was forced out. He was \ stabbed in the back by him. What a shame and what a loss to MPI. I left soon after since I did not agree with the lack of ethics of the management \ at MPI. Back to top simsim Guest Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:08 pm Post subject: \ \ You have a lot of experience in this industry UL, how long do you think MPI will \ survive ? Back to top UrbanLegend User Joined: 11 Apr 2005 Posts: 945 Location: \ USA / UK Posted: Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject: \ \ How long is a piece of string ? I don't see a growth market for MPI , they can \ probably survive in the shrinking market as bit player, with some enormous new \ players in Modeling, survices and API market. We will see some very interesting \ changes in the 2007-8 with some interesting and exciting productsand services coming to market from some very big companies I'm under \ NDA but can say that these companies have Billions in turn over and are spending \ like 20x MPI's turnover just in dev for tools that will impact the vis-sim \ market, this will effect most of the smaller vis-sim companies like MPI as they \ will eat in to a market that is quickly running away from the old traditional 6 \ years to build a sim that is 10 years out of date Theres a whole slue of \ automatic feature extraction and automatic terrain generation and feature \ creation tools coming that will shrink the markets for products like Creator, \ CTS, Geo etc.. What I
Re: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max
Hi, An alternative to Creator is Remo 3D, available from www.remograph.com. Regards /Andreas Hi, I've a flight simulator project running on OSG 2.2 whereby we need to model a geo-specific airport. We will need features like creating the airport lighting system, geo-specific buildings, multiple LODs. We are considering whether to use Multigen Creator or 3D Studio Max to do the job, any advice? Thanks a lot ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max
Hi Have a look at Remo3D www.remograph.com its nice and much cheaper option to Creator Regards Gordon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Loong Hin Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:59 PM To: osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org Subject: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max Hi, I've a flight simulator project running on OSG 2.2 whereby we need to model a geo-specific airport. We will need features like creating the airport lighting system, geo-specific buildings, multiple LODs. We are considering whether to use Multigen Creator or 3D Studio Max to do the job, any advice? Thanks a lot ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max
Another option to look at Geo Pro from Carbon Graphics, more expensive than Remo3d though http://www.carbongraphics.com/ Gordon -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Loong Hin Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 8:59 PM To: osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org Subject: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max Hi, I've a flight simulator project running on OSG 2.2 whereby we need to model a geo-specific airport. We will need features like creating the airport lighting system, geo-specific buildings, multiple LODs. We are considering whether to use Multigen Creator or 3D Studio Max to do the job, any advice? Thanks a lot ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max
(Sorry about my previous messages to the list I seem to have a button pushing problem today.) Creator is just fine for modeling depending on what you're looking for. I use it for modeling aircraft, buildings, and pieces of cities all the time. I believe newer versions of it even do multitexturing and shaders, but I have only used older versions of Creator that can only handle a single texture. Creator saves .flt which maps very cleanly to OSG's scenegraph structure. Artsy modelers like 3ds max are powerful and let you do lots of pretty stuff such as making very organic (curvy) models and use really complex material properties, but they don't map as well to OSG's structure. You'll need to rely on an exporter like OSGexp to get your models into OSG. I have used OSGexp successfully, although sometimes I needed to hack it a bit to get exactly what I wanted. For an airport I'm guessing you could get the job done faster with Creator, but there's no simple answer to your question. It's best to do a test model in each package and get it loading in OSG. Depending on the types of models you want, one modeler might be a whole lot better than the other. - Terry Message: 2 Date: Thu, 6 Dec 2007 09:59:15 +0800 From: Loong Hin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max To: osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Hi, I've a flight simulator project running on OSG 2.2 whereby we need to model a geo-specific airport. We will need features like creating the airport lighting system, geo-specific buildings, multiple LODs. We are considering whether to use Multigen Creator or 3D Studio Max to do the job, any advice? Thanks a lot ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
[osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max
Hi, I've a flight simulator project running on OSG 2.2 whereby we need to model a geo-specific airport. We will need features like creating the airport lighting system, geo-specific buildings, multiple LODs. We are considering whether to use Multigen Creator or 3D Studio Max to do the job, any advice? Thanks a lot ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
Re: [osg-users] Creator vs 3D Studo Max
hi, first of all: the words modeling and creator should not appear in the same sentence :). probably you can use creator for cad tasks but thats all. the texturing tools are quite ok though... i would go with a combination of both. using 3dsmax for the model and creator to compose everything in a nice hierarchy. that's all i can say for now. cheers, daniel Loong Hin wrote: Hi, I've a flight simulator project running on OSG 2.2 whereby we need to model a geo-specific airport. We will need features like creating the airport lighting system, geo-specific buildings, multiple LODs. We are considering whether to use Multigen Creator or 3D Studio Max to do the job, any advice? Thanks a lot ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org ___ osg-users mailing list osg-users@lists.openscenegraph.org http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
