Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Linda Ndebele]

I get your point comrade Mawethu but it is not the fault of our generation that 
we have been unable to produce leaders who speak with 'pep and zest'. Infact we 
have produced such leaders but have been suffocated by Old Guard who see them 
as a threat as opposed to be seen as a new breed of leadership that must be 
nurtured and nourished to take the baton forward. Can name a list of our finest 
orators that we have produced over the years but that were frustrated by the 
Old Guard to gain necessary prominence. 

I must say I never expected a President to read a wrong speech without 
realizing, I can forgive the illiterate JZ if he can make such a blunder but 
not a leader of Mugabe's stature and level of education. Mugabe's blundering 
has far reaching impact noting his stature to the world and how his speeches 
are listened throughout the world by both enemies and friends. We just can't 
afford such blunders. I blame it on age and his support staff in the Office of 
the Presidency.


Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "'Mawethu Sidzamba' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress" 

Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 06:14:21 
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

Dear Comrades
There are two ways to look at this. Oratory goes a long way in drawing mass 
appeal. All organizations that have succeeded had the oratory being integral to 
their success. People used to walk long distances to listen to their leaders 
speak with pep and zest, now they are bused only to listen to gobbledygook by 
uninspiring orators. Look no further than us if you want to see this in actual 
context.
Mugabe on the other hand is a type of speaker whom when he speaks, the world 
listens, the detractors always fasten their seatlbelts that is why it was even 
easy to hype up the situation surrounding his address. Always clear, eloquent 
and caustic to a certain extent but this did not excuse him from familiarising 
himself with the speech prior to delivery. With that said there can be other 
convincing reasons for daring Mugabe to resign but speech delivery is the least 
of them.
Meanwhile, in the Pan Afrikanist block I cannot remember the last time we had a 
speaker who could move audiences both within and outside his constituency. You 
can have all the requisite theory but if it lacks delivery of a professional 
punch it is as good as dull. Let us continue reflecting on mass communication 
being an uncompromising leadership character trait. 


 On Sunday, September 20, 2015 10:04 PM, Linda Ndebele 
 wrote:
   

 #yiv0129008793 #yiv0129008793 --.yiv0129008793hmmessage 
P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv0129008793 
body.yiv0129008793hmmessage{font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}#yiv0129008793 
Surely comrade Mmbara the Deputy President is fit for leading the country and 
ZANU-PF as President. Surely the liberation of Zimbabwe was a collective effort 
of Zanu-PF and the people of Zimbabwe. It can't be Mugabe forever even when all 
can see that age is truly overtaking him. ZANU-PF has a duty to ensure ofcourse 
that his legacy is not undone but all indications indicate that the Oldman has 
reached his ultimate point, he can't give anything better.Sent via my 
BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!From:  Hulisani 
Sender:  payco@googlegroups.comDate: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 
20:08:07 +0200To: PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP PAYCO GOOGLE 
GROUPReplyTo:  payco@googlegroups.comSubject: RE: 
[PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
Comrade Linda, any ideas on who should succeed Oldman RG Mugabe and his peers 
in ZANU- PF leadership? I think though ZANU-PF is keenly aware of the 
succession matter and is probably fairly prepared for the inevitable departure 
of Mugabe and his peers. 

 
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> From: kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:48:02 +
> 
> I think our love for the old man to a certain extent blind us to reality. 
> That Mugabe is old is an undeniable fact? That he's now susceptible to things 
> that happens to older people such as tripping on stairways, falling in the 
> bathroom, getting ill often and ofcourse reading a wrong speech without 
> realizing. Oflate the oldman has been committing serious mistakes that 
> embarrasses all of us, example was when he made statements loaded with tribal 
> hatred recently. 
> 
> Ofcourse the persons in the Presidents Office responsible for speech writing 
> and Head of the President's office must be taken to task for this blunder. 
> Having said that, the President cannot be absolved from this blunder, he 
> should have realized whilst reading the speech that he had once read it. If 
> the President reads his speeches with compreh

Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Linda Ndebele]

Surely comrade Mmbara the Deputy President is fit for leading the country and 
ZANU-PF as President. Surely the liberation of Zimbabwe was a collective effort 
of Zanu-PF and the people of Zimbabwe. It can't be Mugabe forever even when all 
can see that age is truly overtaking him. ZANU-PF has a duty to ensure ofcourse 
that his legacy is not undone but all indications indicate that the Oldman has 
reached his ultimate point, he can't give anything better.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Hulisani 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 20:08:07 
To: PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

Comrade Linda, any ideas on who should succeed Oldman RG Mugabe and his peers 
in ZANU- PF leadership? I think though ZANU-PF is keenly aware of the 
succession matter and is probably fairly prepared for the inevitable departure 
of Mugabe and his peers. 

 
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> From: kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:48:02 +
> 
> I think our love for the old man to a certain extent blind us to reality. 
> That Mugabe is old is an undeniable fact? That he's now susceptible to things 
> that happens to older people such as tripping on stairways, falling in the 
> bathroom, getting ill often and ofcourse reading a wrong speech without 
> realizing. Oflate the oldman has been committing serious mistakes that 
> embarrasses all of us, example was when he made statements loaded with tribal 
> hatred recently. 
> 
> Ofcourse the persons in the Presidents Office responsible for speech writing 
> and Head of the President's office must be taken to task for this blunder. 
> Having said that, the President cannot be absolved from this blunder, he 
> should have realized whilst reading the speech that he had once read it. If 
> the President reads his speeches with comprehension he could have realised on 
> the first 2 paragraphs of the speech except if he couldn't recall because of 
> age.
> 
> I remain convinced comrades that succession has never been this urgent. When 
> our leader Fidel Castro was being overtaken by age he voluntarily handed the 
> baton. The Oldman RG Mugabe must hand the baton. 
> 
> Izwe lethu!
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Chargein Mabaso 
> Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
> Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 18:55:46 
> To: 
> Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.
> 
> Comrades,
> 
> Let's be serious. This is a serious matter just like when President
> Boris Yeltsin of Russia tripped and staggered infront of the public
> media making mockery of himself. He was redicule and dubbed as being
> drunk on an important occassion and called to resign. .
> 
> Ma-Afrika, there is no way that the State President of a country can
> read a wrong speech in a public platform by accident or omission by
> his personal aids. How can that happen in any country? Where was the
> speech writer who is paid to do that?  I also have the same question.
> Where were the communications department, VIP proetection, security
> and intelligent structures who are paid to protect the image
> (reputation) of the President and that of Zimbabwe as country when
> this fiasco happened? The President is the face of the country. That
> is why enemies of any couuntry target the President as their enemey
> number one. Look at the tight security of President Obama wherever he
> goes. Look at the noise in many papers about  wrong sign language
> interpreter (psychopath) who stood next to President Obama during
> Mandela!s Memorial service.  Any threat against President Obama's life
> and image is a direct threat to America as a country, not just to
> Obama as an individual. What happened to President Mugabe was a clear
> sabotage from within his own camp.  Embarassing the President of a
> country is a punishable offence, if not high treason, for anyone who
> did it, consciously or unconsciously. The whole saga did come as a
> surprise after Mujuru crisis in Zimbabwe, if we know her influence and
> that of her husband in the military, security and intelligence
> structures in Zimbabwe.. I guess so. The whole issue seems to be an
> inside job to deepen the crisis in Zimbabwe and check the reaction of
> the Mugabe:s inner circle. Recently, it was reported on papers that
> few days after Mnangagwa was elected as Vice President at the expense
> of Joyce Muju head, poison was found in his office afer his secretary
> collapdsed and rushed to hospital due to inhalation of the poisonous
> gases (attempted assassination of the second in command). That was
> very serious. Once beaten twice shy. What will be the third move after
> this one? My guess is as good as yours.
> 
> On 9/19/15, Hulisa

Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Linda Ndebele]

I think our love for the old man to a certain extent blind us to reality. That 
Mugabe is old is an undeniable fact? That he's now susceptible to things that 
happens to older people such as tripping on stairways, falling in the bathroom, 
getting ill often and ofcourse reading a wrong speech without realizing. Oflate 
the oldman has been committing serious mistakes that embarrasses all of us, 
example was when he made statements loaded with tribal hatred recently. 

Ofcourse the persons in the Presidents Office responsible for speech writing 
and Head of the President's office must be taken to task for this blunder. 
Having said that, the President cannot be absolved from this blunder, he should 
have realized whilst reading the speech that he had once read it. If the 
President reads his speeches with comprehension he could have realised on the 
first 2 paragraphs of the speech except if he couldn't recall because of age.

I remain convinced comrades that succession has never been this urgent. When 
our leader Fidel Castro was being overtaken by age he voluntarily handed the 
baton. The Oldman RG Mugabe must hand the baton. 

Izwe lethu!
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Chargein Mabaso 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 18:55:46 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

Comrades,

Let's be serious. This is a serious matter just like when President
Boris Yeltsin of Russia tripped and staggered infront of the public
media making mockery of himself. He was redicule and dubbed as being
drunk on an important occassion and called to resign. .

Ma-Afrika, there is no way that the State President of a country can
read a wrong speech in a public platform by accident or omission by
his personal aids. How can that happen in any country? Where was the
speech writer who is paid to do that?  I also have the same question.
Where were the communications department, VIP proetection, security
and intelligent structures who are paid to protect the image
(reputation) of the President and that of Zimbabwe as country when
this fiasco happened? The President is the face of the country. That
is why enemies of any couuntry target the President as their enemey
number one. Look at the tight security of President Obama wherever he
goes. Look at the noise in many papers about  wrong sign language
interpreter (psychopath) who stood next to President Obama during
Mandela!s Memorial service.  Any threat against President Obama's life
and image is a direct threat to America as a country, not just to
Obama as an individual. What happened to President Mugabe was a clear
sabotage from within his own camp.  Embarassing the President of a
country is a punishable offence, if not high treason, for anyone who
did it, consciously or unconsciously. The whole saga did come as a
surprise after Mujuru crisis in Zimbabwe, if we know her influence and
that of her husband in the military, security and intelligence
structures in Zimbabwe.. I guess so. The whole issue seems to be an
inside job to deepen the crisis in Zimbabwe and check the reaction of
the Mugabe:s inner circle. Recently, it was reported on papers that
few days after Mnangagwa was elected as Vice President at the expense
of Joyce Muju head, poison was found in his office afer his secretary
collapdsed and rushed to hospital due to inhalation of the poisonous
gases (attempted assassination of the second in command). That was
very serious. Once beaten twice shy. What will be the third move after
this one? My guess is as good as yours.

On 9/19/15, Hulisani  wrote:
> Evening comrades, I wouldn't want to necessary venture into either side of
> the debate regarding whether or not Mugabe should leave as a matter of
> urgency. I think the speech incident is being blown out of proportion in so
> far as Mugabe is being blamed for the oversight. My understanding is that
> Mugabe has a communication team that assist him with these issues who must
> make sure the president has the right speech for the right occasion, whether
> or not he personally wrote the speech himself. So how it ought to work is
> that someone will type the speech, print it, place it on the pulpit before
> Mugabe ascends to the podium. This despite whether or not the president has
> kept a copy for himself. In my view, if anyone must go with immediate
> effect, it is definitely the speech writer or the head of his communication
> for being casual and not taking their salaried jobs seriously. Even then I
> would say firing who ever is responsible for this will amount to some kind
> of heavy handedness. Overall I think the issue of reading the wrong speech
> is for all intents and purposes trivial. I'm sure for any president, this
> would be the least oversight, which would not warrant calls for a leader to
> step down. I am not sure if age has anything to do with it. Even if it has,
> in the bigg

Re: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.

[Linda Ndebele]

It was indeed the most embarrassing moment. Succession has never been this 
urgent. The Old Man has played his part, let him hand over the baton.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Sebenzile Mlaza 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 06:53:47 
To: 'payco@googlegroups.com'
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Time to call it quits for my Pres.



Revolutionary greetings to all,

President Robert Mugabe delivered a State of the Nation Speech he had 
previously delivered.
It's time our good president calls it quits, this is a sign of senility.

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Re: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

[Linda Ndebele]

Greetings!

Cde Nkrumah going forward that's the only pursuit I am prepared to engage on. 
The other gymnastics that leads to nowhere I am no longer prepared to entertain.

Forward to socialist revolution!

Linda
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2015 16:51:25 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

Greeting friends and comrades!

 

“Never in history has any class achieved power without having political 
leaders, men capable of organising a movement and leading it” – Lenin. A cadre 
is a professional revolutionary, a qualified graduate in the art of revolution, 
from the purifying school of practical and ideological battles in defence of 
the poor and oppressed masses. None of us can refute that “the PAC has been 
slowly evaporating itself into total oblivion from the political radar”. We 
must note that these writings remain an exchange among us with access to Payco 
google group and worse of all are ignored by those leading the party who holds 
divergent ideas and methods responsible of the disintegration of the PAC, to 
reason with them has proven to be a futile exercise and thus delivered either 
sour fruits or nothing except maliciousness.  The only logical action, is those 
who uphold the necessity of a revolutionary Pan Africanist organisation and 
accept such bitter truths and willing to explore ways and means to (re-) build 
a revolutionary Pan Africanist Party should converge and execute the necessary 
mass based programme.

 

Shango lashu

Nkrumah

 

 

From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of matome
Sent: 01 February 2015 10:45 AM
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Quo Vadis PAC

 

Comrade Sebenzile,

I hope you are well my dearest Friend and Comrade.

Would you allow me to take off by 'attacking' you and then to end differently? 
Since you are not here to engage in 'real time' I am now answering the 
foregoing question on your behalf. This I do in the knowledge that you are my 
Friend, and one of the finest of our generation.

The question is, have you not been a part of this slumber, self exaggeration 
and pity ? The immediate answer is that you have been. And in addition if you 
wish to contest this, what have you done to change this state? Was it enough 
and or sufficient? All these questions seem to leave you on weaker ground. 

Are you still willing to hear this my Friend ?

I thank you for allowing me to 'attack' you in this way without seeing my 
points as personal affront but an invitation to do more, and my sternest belief 
that you have what it takes to exert yourself more.

Revolution and change require more than just type-writer bravery and 
intelligence. 

It is for this reason that mediocre lead the gifted and talented comrades like 
you. 

The pain and task of leading a revolution and party building are much more 
excruciating than that.

Having said all of the above, to you my dear Friend, I here add my voice of 
praise to the validity that belies your submission. 

That question must occupy all of us, that is whether this vehicle can still 
carry this agenda, and whether it is not a wreckage from which we must isolate, 
extricate and advance the potent agenda contained therein. Signs are all that 
you are right, and on this one, very brave too, to have the guts to point this 
out. I do not have to remind you how Sobukwe was at some point like you, like 
you in that when the charterists ditched the Africanist program, and thus 
rendering themselves a wreckage, he and others were brave enough to say, let us 
pick the agenda away from this and find a vehicle to advance it. And they left 
a movement that was almost five decades old. That was brave. So we have to 
listen to you and to confront this question, and do an urgent assessment of 
whether the current vehicle is still a vehicle or a wreckage that is about to 
burn. And whether its immobility is a temporal state which can be fixed. If the 
latter is correct, I am sure there is extreme urgency. This view, the latter 
one, is getting weak by the day, as pitched against the reality of a vehicle 
that may have become a wreck.

So well done my dear Friend !!

Another thing that has been killing me inside is this:

Have we imagined the potential pain of putting everything aside to fight for a 
people and movement who in your darkest days or even so, in your dying days are 
nowhere to acknowledge your sacrifices. I speak here of the many Apla boys who 
were hanged and those who continue to suffer in and outside of jail. What about 
their mothers, brothers and children? All that sacrifice gone to waste ? 

The above really really kills me. 

You see Gadaffi died a good one, Che, Saddam, Lumumba, Kwame and many others. 
Their flame continues. What about the flame of these comrades and martyrs.

So in the light 

Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

[Linda Ndebele]

Indeed not in our name! We had enough of neo-liberal tendencies. We are 
repositioning PAC to be a true vanguard of our people, No one will dare stop us!

Izwe lethu!

Linda Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "matome" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:06:16 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

Comrade Lion,

I agree entirely with the essence of your email. You are right to implore us 
away from trifles; to focus us on the challenge of leading our people to 
battle. 

One of the reasons mediocrity has managed to take control of the party, and to 
divert it from its historical radical line is by beating our advanced and 
revolutionary cadres into despondency. The strategy of these mediocres is to 
pile up the pressure of frustration against our competent cadres until only 
them are left to scavenge on the party, squeezing its soul while using only the 
name of the party but rejecting all its principles. Once they have beaten all 
of us into frustration, they run amok with the party, stamping their line of 
apology and suit and tie modicum as the defining thrust of the party. They then 
label everyone who dare question why they have turned the PAC into a 
kind-hearted sweet goat instead of retaining its historical mandate as a war 
machinery for our people. They label any talk of revolution as ridiculous and 
call some of us as being 'too much'. Too much for what ? Yes we must be too 
much and beyond to fight the regime that is killing, stealing and destroying 
everything. They want us to be civil and reasonable against a regime that is 
shooting our people and starving a vast majority. That is why they call us too 
much. 

This apologists have in fact taken over the party although they represent 
everything against the party. We have to be forthright and targeted in the 
assault of this line for it is as good as having the regime running our party. 
They gate-keep for the regime, stopping us from declaring a war against a 
regime that is blood thirsty and blood sucking !

We have shared thoughts on the thrust of a program of action, and that has to 
be pursued with or without them. What has become apparent though is that we 
cannot assign the execution of this revolutionary bloody program to them 
bacause they don't believe in it. They believe in administration instead of 
believing in its collapse through mass action, armed uprising, street fights et 
cetera.

We must lose all manner of tolerance towards this group because it is not PAC 
whatsoever. It is a negation of the many martyrs who died for us. 

Only this line is correct, the line of a Program of Action. We have said it 
over and over again, and since some of them ara incapable of hearing or seeing 
just like the belligerence of the regime, we must this time ram it into their 
heads by whatever means necessary.

We cannot be delayed to engage the regime. The workers are ready, the students 
are ready, the poor masses are ready ! Only these socalled leaders of 'ours' 
are not ready and prefer a gentleman 's talk. Not in our name !!!

Izwe Lethu

Matome Mashao

Sent from my BlackBerry®

-Original Message-
From: "AUBREY NGWATLE" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 19:49:06 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

On Mon, 27 Oct 2014 15:29:22 +0200 "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi"
 wrote

> M'Afrika Percy
> 
> In as much one wishes to answer your question, the failure to answer is
> carried within your own question because of the following anormalies that
> occurred, without being dragged and drawn into internal feuding details,
what
> is confronting us is the forward movement of the PAC. Hence, we posit before
> all members that it is imminent that PAC branches and members denounce
anyone
> advocating Anti-Unity, secondly we urge all PAC branches and members to
unite
> on the basis of a Programme of Action for the Seizure of State Political
> Power to Advance and Establish the Africanist Socialist Democracy! Hence we
> urge and appeal with all PAC Branches and members to organise inclusive
> regional and provincial conferences as we engage the three (3) feuding NECs
> to unite on the basis of Programme of Action!  
>
> Rena Ga Re Nyake Ditshele, Re Nyaka Revolution!
> 
> Shnago Lashu
> Nkrumah Raymond Kgaudi   
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> percy motswaledi Sent: 27 October 2014 03:09 PM
> To: payco@googlegroups.com; Mphiri Masoga
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme
> 
> Good Day MoAfrika Linda
> 
> its Lion of Azania Here
> Mr Mphiri Masoga is attacking you in pu

Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

[Linda Ndebele]

Cde Mphiri,

My apologies for responding late. I have been driving for the last 4 hours and 
could not respond in time to your enquiries.

I wrote the communique as the co-convener of the meeting and former President 
of PAYCO who is really concerned about the state of the party.

We are committed party members who want the PAC to re-establish its original 
mandate, of being a revolutionary socialist movement, that seeks to overturn 
the current capitalist society and create an Africanist Socialist democracy. We 
are not outside the party at all.

Currently we have 3 feuding NEC's, "Letlapa's NEC", "Mphethi's NEC" and 
"Narious-Mbinda NEC". We don't believe this situation is good for the party 
hence this intervention.

We are party members, if our party is under attack we would not ask anyone's 
permission to defend it. We have a duty to defend the legacy of PAC pioneers 
and the future of African people.

We are revolutionary Pan Africanist and members of the PAC who have led party 
structures at different level. We are cadres who believe party members must be 
rallied and mobilized around a Programme of Action as opposed to personalities 
and factions.

We shall have many engagements with party members through social networks, 
communique's, visits in different branches, regions, provinces and other 
national gatherings. We shall be everywhere where PAC is discussed to ensure 
that the agenda is programme of action, seizure of state power and Unification 
of Africa not personalities and factional agendas.

We want to lead a revolt not to assimilate to the parliamentary nonsense that 
different factions are fighting over.

PAC needs to lead real revolution not tokenism.

Hope you will find this in order.

Linda Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Mphiri Masoga" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 09:59:02 
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme


Good Morning Linda 

Who are the former Presidents who attended the meeting & where were the current 
Presidents and what is the Status of the so called former Presidents of that 
meeting?

As far as I can recall most or many of the so called Former Presidents left the 
organisation and or are operating outside party fold.   

What do you call your group former Presidents or another so called "faction" or 
grouping?

 Can you also identify the NEC groupings you mentioned in your correspondence, 
on what capacity are you writing   
kind Regards, 

Mphiri Masoga 
SACWU PTA
Tel : 012 320 6472
Fax : 012 320 2179
Fax2Email: 0862254254
Cell : 0731822656

-Original Message-
From: "Linda Ndebele" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 27 Oct 2014 08:06:09 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

Revolutionary greetings,
 
To all PAC members and structures:
 
After much pain and disappointments caused by the three purported NEC 
groupings, a meeting was held in Johannesburg over the whole of this past 
Saturday, 25 October 2014, to consider options available to correct and 
radicalize the PAC which has of late been on an apologetic liberal path. We 
resolved on a Final Push to intervene and bring solutions to the party 's 
faction-based and leadership capacity challenges. The meeting widens in scope 
at our next meeting scheduled for the end of November 2014. The Saturday 
meeting was high-powered, decisive and candid, attended by former Payco 
Presidents, Former PASMA Presidents, as well as leading PAC figures. Key 
resolutions taken include the following:
 
1.    To denounce all three feuding NEC groups
2.    To form ourselves as a Programme of Action Team for an 
Africanist Socialist Democracy
3.    To form a mediation team to engage and pursue the three 
feuding factions
4.    Call for the convening of an All Inclusive Conference (open 
to all party members) administered by an independent team with an objective to 
consolidate party unity and to adopt a National Programme of Action for seizure 
of state political power and establishment of an Africanist Socialist Democracy
5.    To call for the three purported NEC’s to report and account 
in a national Conference
6.    Mobilise and Engage party members, branches and veterans
   
 
In conclusion, we make this call to all our cadres and all PAC members to join 
us on a path to re-build and re-organise the Party-PAC on a radical 
revolutionary Program of Action. Our definitive focus is the aggressive 
resolution of our problems using the Program of Action as the principal means. 
It is a call not to be missed !!
 
Linda K Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-- 
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Sending your posti

[PAYCO] Revolutionary Pan Africanist Programme

[Linda Ndebele]

Revolutionary greetings,
 
To all PAC members and structures:
 
After much pain and disappointments caused by the three purported NEC 
groupings, a meeting was held in Johannesburg over the whole of this past 
Saturday, 25 October 2014, to consider options available to correct and 
radicalize the PAC which has of late been on an apologetic liberal path. We 
resolved on a Final Push to intervene and bring solutions to the party 's 
faction-based and leadership capacity challenges. The meeting widens in scope 
at our next meeting scheduled for the end of November 2014. The Saturday 
meeting was high-powered, decisive and candid, attended by former Payco 
Presidents, Former PASMA Presidents, as well as leading PAC figures. Key 
resolutions taken include the following:
 
1.    To denounce all three feuding NEC groups
2.    To form ourselves as a Programme of Action Team for an 
Africanist Socialist Democracy
3.    To form a mediation team to engage and pursue the three 
feuding factions
4.    Call for the convening of an All Inclusive Conference (open 
to all party members) administered by an independent team with an objective to 
consolidate party unity and to adopt a National Programme of Action for seizure 
of state political power and establishment of an Africanist Socialist Democracy
5.    To call for the three purported NEC’s to report and account 
in a national Conference
6.    Mobilise and Engage party members, branches and veterans
   
 
In conclusion, we make this call to all our cadres and all PAC members to join 
us on a path to re-build and re-organise the Party-PAC on a radical 
revolutionary Program of Action. Our definitive focus is the aggressive 
resolution of our problems using the Program of Action as the principal means. 
It is a call not to be missed !!
 
Linda K Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

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Re: [PAYCO] Statement of Position - Program of Action

[Linda Ndebele]

Cde Matome,

I wish to express my gratitude to the continous rationale manner you approach 
challenges facing our party and our revolutionary task. Indeed I agree with you 
that we have to make a choice between Revolting or conforming to the system. 
Making such a choice is critical to know who are with the masses of our people 
(revolt route) or those with the system (conforming route).

I wish to state where I stand. I stand for revolt. I know the implications of 
taking this route to me personally, professionally, financially and 
politically. I know that one stands to loose his life, be unpopular, growth 
professionally, financial difficulties and political isolation within the party 
and outside the party. I have considered all these consequences of this 
decision but despite and inspite of these I prefer to stand with the masses of 
my people. I stand for revolt and martyrdom.

I have gone through the position statement of the Programme of Action and agree 
wholeheartedly with it. I will share some of my contributions with the main 
contents of the programme of action. I strongly believe we need to embark on 
serious cadreship development if we have to succeed with mass mobilization and 
produce quality leaders to lead our people into revolutionary action.

Count me in therefore on revolt cadre.

Izwe lethu!

Linda Kwame Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "matome" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2014 20:26:57 
To: ; 'Michael Muendane'; 'Mbulelo 
Raymond'
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: ; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 

Subject: [PAYCO] Statement of Position - Program of Action

Dear Comrades,

Find herewith attached the thrust of a revolutionary program (in development). 
It is our view that the choice facing us today is between - Revolt and Conform. 
We must choose one, and so is the PAC. The choice is indeed less about 
'factions' or 'personalities' but about 'ROCO' - Revolt or Conform.

I have made my choice and I think the time has come for all of us to make our 
choices known so that we should not waste each other 's time in case we are on 
different agenda routes. It is better to engage in inner party struggle with 
comrades with whom a foundational outlook is shared than engage in wastage. 
Time is of the essence. Let's declare our colours. 

Please read the attached and let us unchain each other to pursue what we each 
believe than keep each other in a chained adulterous relationship. 

We cannot hurt in perpetuity unless we are part of the perpetrators. We must 
make a call - Revolt or Conform !

Matome Mashao


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[PAYCO] Our generation failed by a generation that has made its mark!

[Linda Ndebele]

Comrades,

Today had a conversation with my close comrades in my Region (Majuba Region). 
These are passionate comrades who possess rare talents and skills in terms of 
mass mobilization, resource mobilization and are hardcore politicians. They 
live, breath and dream politics. PAC is blessed to have such selfless and 
fearless cadres. Its unfortunate that their talents are currently not nurtured 
and nourished to replenish and make PAC a force to be reckoned with.

In our conversation we were deliberating on the state of the PAC and the role 
of our generation in the PAC and in the broader struggle of African 
emancipation. In our conversation we agreed on the following as challenges 
facing our challenge:
1. Our generation is waging battles of a generation that has made its mark in 
history. (All factions are led and formed around elements who can boast about 
some achievements as activists, exiles or as military people at some point in 
the struggle)
2. Our generation has not been given space to make its mark or make its 
blunders. (Leadership of the party is kept away by those of the generation that 
has made its mark).
3. Our generation stands to go down in history as the most useless generation 
that never made a mark in the struggle to liberate our people.

We concluded that we will not allow this to continue. We want to play our 
historic duty in the liberation struggle of our people and continent. We will 
do this within the PAC but if PAC cannot assist us to do so we will go out and 
make our mark elsewhere.

We are driven by a desire to make our mark in history.

Izwe lethu!

Linda Kwame Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2014 08:05:02 
To: 'Michael Muendane'; 'Mbulelo 
Raymond'
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: ; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; 
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; ; ; 
<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; ; 
; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
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Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

Izwe lethu 

 

Thanks Bra Mike, “Anyone can change. Love yourself, love one another, unite and 
you shall be a strong Party”

 

Izwe lethu

Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi

I Choose no-one, however all PAC members as comrades in struggle for the 
African Emancipation!

 

From: Michael Muendane [mailto:m...@soultalk.co.za] 
Sent: 11 September 2014 10:13 PM
To: 'Mbulelo Raymond'; 'Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi'
Cc: po...@yahoo.com; tyamza...@yahoo.com; phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; 
joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; jntab...@gmail.com; 
paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; celenjabulo...@gmail.com; tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; 
znyam...@gmail.com; rammymfulw...@gmail.com; i...@bataufc.com; 
moshemahlom...@gmail.com; bennet_j...@yahoo.com; bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; 
digashuma...@gmail.com; phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; monyanepin...@gmail.com; 
ad...@pac.org.za; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; dud...@webmail.co.za; 
lea...@hotmail.com; malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; vu...@telkomsa.net; 
richardma...@yahoo.com; ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; mnd...@yahoo.com; 
mop...@pac.org.za; mvakalijust...@gmail.com; dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; 
tnta...@webmail.co.za; aplamv...@gmail.com; njabulo.m...@gmail.com; 
river.mla...@telkomsa.net; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; goqwana.san...@gmail.com; 
billiard.s...@gmail.com; linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; 
kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; pacmogalec...@gmail.com; 
isaa...@diplomat-global.com; bulanng...@gmail.com; vemahla...@gmail.com; 
0825164...@vodamail.co.za; nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; lucasmmol...@gmail.com; 
payco@googlegroups.com; takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; 
pacaza...@webmail.co.za; pac.nc...@gmail.com; pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; 
hlubi.so...@gmail.com; mphothobej...@yahoo.com; mbuyigan...@yahoo.com; 
dumisani...@gmail.com; p...@vodamail.co.za; nnyq...@gmail.com; s...@pac.org.za; 
sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; wgaj...@gmail.com; mapulankoan...@gmail.com; 
mokoen...@workmail.co.za; mbind...@gmail.com; mphah...@eskom.co.za
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

 

There is one stubborn truth that most people do not realise and it is this:

 

“You cannot give anybody something that you do not have. You must have it 
first. If you do not have love, you can never give love to anybody. Likewise, 
when you give a positive a label ( description or attribute) to someone else, 
it means you also possess that attribute. When you attribute or ascribe a 
certain negative trait, attribute, quality or tendency to another person, you 
do that because you possess that trait, attribute, quality or tendency 
yourself, otherwise how would you recognise it in others?”

 

Anyone can change. Love yourself, love one another, unite and you shall be a 
strong Party.

 

Izwe lethu.

 

 

Ngila Muendane.

 

From: Mbulelo Raymond [mailto:mrfihl...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, September 11

Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

[Linda Ndebele]

Comrades,

Can we elavate the level of discourse to focus on broader party building issues 
as opposed to narrow individual interests, personalities and factional 
positions.

To a certain extent you reach a point of embarrassment when you follow the line 
of debate. Its even worse when its done by seasoned party cadres whom we have 
utmost respect and expect nothing other than guidance and decisive leadership.

I humbly request cadres.

Izwe lethu!

Linda Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "'Mawethu Sidzamba' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress" 

Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2014 22:59:52 
To: ; ; 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 

Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

Greetings Cdes

We have to accept and realise from all our points of conviction that the same 
area of convergence will be our first victory.
Speculations and insecurities about the intentions of one or the other are 
probably our biggest obstacle.

Open palm salute!

On Tue, 9/9/14, Nkrumah Raymond KGAGUDI  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference
 To: mbuyigan...@yahoo.com, mnd...@yahoo.com, payco@googlegroups.com
 Cc: kutie.thondl...@gmail.com, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za, mrfihl...@gmail.com, 
linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za, ad...@pac.org.za, wgaj...@gmail.com, 
rammymfulw...@gmail.com, richardma...@yahoo.com, river.mla...@telkomsa.net, 
ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za, takalaniligeg...@gmail.com, 
tumimod...@hotmail.co.za, tyamza...@yahoo.com, tnta...@webmail.co.za, 
isaa...@diplomat-global.com, i...@bataufc.com, lea...@hotmail.com, 
phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com, p...@vodamail.co.za, paccapeme...@webmail.co.za, 
pasmapresid...@gmail.com, pactshwanereg...@gmail.com, pacmogalec...@gmail.com, 
pac.nc...@gmail.com, phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za, pacaza...@webmail.co.za, 
s...@pac.org.za, sbusiso.x...@gmail.com, dud...@webmail.co.za, 
digashuma...@gmail.com, dmalo...@klerksdorp.org, goqwana.san...@gmail.com, 
hlubi.so...@gmail.com, joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com, jntab...@gmail.com, 
0825164...@vodamail.co.za, lucasmmol...@gmail.com, znyam...@gmail.com, 
billiard.s...@gmail.com,
 bulanng...@gmail.com, bennet_j...@yahoo.com, bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com, 
ndhlo...@pac.org.za, nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com, nnyq...@gmail.com, 
m...@soultalk.co.za, mapulankoan...@gmail.com, mvakalijust...@gmail.com, 
mbind...@gmail.com, mphah...@eskom.co.za, malingeplaat...@yahoo.com, 
mphothobej...@yahoo.com, mokoen...@workmail.co.za, moshemahlom...@gmail.com, 
monyanepin...@gmail.com, mop...@pac.org.za, po...@yahoo.com, 
celenjabulo...@gmail.com, njabulo.m...@gmail.com, vu...@telkomsa.net, 
dumisani...@gmail.com
 Date: Tuesday, September 9, 2014, 6:34 PM
 
 Izwe lethu
 
 Once more, this debate further confirms that the September
 National Conference will not resolve the deepened level of
 feuding within the PAC, it will however worsen the situation
 and things cam be irreversible or untenable. For long in the
 PAC, PAC members and branches have being victims of two
 tongued characters!
 
 For example, PAC branches and members across all regions are
 highly divided and some are hiding their subjective
 interests using, statements such as this NEC member or that
 NEC has failed and did this or that! I strongly believe that
 in as much as Cde Letlapa, Cde Mpethi and Cde Moloto, might
 have made serious political blunders/errors, they cannot be
 made to be 100% liable for the entire divisions and feuding
 thus factionalism in the PAC. 
 
 Another example, there is a PAC PEC Member in Mpumalanga
 organising non-members to complete forms and increase
 numbers for the September National Conference, are we going
 to blame the put this corrupt activities on either Moloto
 NEC Grouping for this while exanorating and calling the very
 same Mpumalanga PEC member a comrade. 
 
 There are many examples, we can use to show that deeply, the
 PAC branches and members particularly comrades who are at
 the forefront of everything to be directly responsible and
 are hypocrites. 
 
 We have imprisoned former APLA combatants, no action is
 taken to demand the release of Incarcerated APLA combatants.
 Surely comrades, neither Cde Letlapa nor Cde Mpethi nor Cde
 Moloto is stopping your branches and members to picket and
 organise mass protests demanding the immediate release of
 all the unprisoned APLA conrades. None of the two existing
 APLAMVA NECs have been seen in action demanding tye release
 of these comrades, but today APLAMVA NEC comrades have a
 moral ground to point finger and identify failers of the PAC
 NEC Members. I find the extent of most comrades as being
 hypocrits, as shocking and also this explains the de

[PAYCO] Re: focused practical action

[Linda Ndebele]

Comrades,

The only way of making this work is to commit and honour promises we make. If 
we schedule a meeting, everyone who said will attend must be there and spend 
the duration of the meeting. Its hightime we make PAC priority. We must stop 
this thing of making promises and send apologies on an eleventh hour.

The process plan with clear milestones has to be in place to ensure that we 
achieve what we seek to achieve.

This might look insignificant but its these small things that have been setting 
PAC aback.

Izwe lethu! 

Linda
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: sndam...@pac-cape.org.za
Date: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 12:45:03 
To: 
Cc: Mbuyiselo Kantso; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
'Mapula Nkoana'; 'david 
mabitsela'; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; 
Subject: Re: focused practical action

 

from our side in the Western Cape, the majority branches has mandated
the PEC to do the work. I will ensure that they (PEC) communicate with
all PECs (that include the parallel structures). On your side please
talk to your RECs/PECs to be supportive and come on board. 

As Cde Kgagudi said that initial meeting of all these leaders must
decide on the Mediation Team and Plan of Action. 

Myself (Ndamane), Kgagudi, Ndebele, Gantsu, Fihla let us assist this
process to ensure it does rollout and all relevant interest groups and
structures are on board. 

iAfrika 

On 2014-09-05 12:18, Linda Ndebele wrote: 

> Comrades,
> 
> The critical question now is who will bell the cat? Who will convene the 
> mediation team? Who should form part of mediation team? How would the whole 
> exercise be financed? How do we get buy-in from all factions?
> 
> Linda 
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! 
> -
> 
> FROM: sndam...@pac-cape.org.za 
> DATE: Fri, 05 Sep 2014 11:37:33 +0200 
> TO: Mbuyiselo Kantso 
> CC: ; ; 
> ; ; ; 
> ; ; 
> ; ; ; 
> ; ; ; 
> 'Mapula Nkoana'; 'david 
> mabitsela'; ; 
> ; ; 
> ; ; ; 
> ; ; ; 
> ; ; ; 
> ; ; ; 
> ; ; 
> ; ; 'sandla 
> goqwana'; ;
; ; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 'Alton 
Mphethi' 
> SUBJECT: Re: focused practical action 
> 
> Comrade Mbuyi, 
> 
> I do understand the Constitutionality as Cde Moloto is saying the PAC is due 
> for Annual National Conference but the reality dictates otherwise; 
> 
> * September 2013 there was a Birchwood PAC Conference, the NEC introduced to 
> delegates co-opted NEC members to name the few for the position of National 
> Chairperson: Cde Raymond Fihla; Deputy President: Cde Ngila Muendane and 
> others
> * the Conference rejected these appointments and resolved that Cde Mphethi is 
> affirmed as President having resolved that Cde Mphahlele did not appeal his 
> expulsion following internal processes; and further resolved that those NEC 
> members who sided with Cde Mphahlele be invited back to the NEC, then Cde 
> Mphethi reshuffle NEC and appoint 5 members based on their expertise into the 
> NEC as per the Constitution.
> * the NEC did not invite the other NEC members, Mphethi did not reshuffle NEC 
> instead he reinstated those appointments that were rejected by the Conference 
> using the resolution that allowed him to appoint 5 members into the NEC based 
> on their expertise
> * _fast-forward to 2014_: Cde Moloto wrote a communique complaining of NEC 
> members [deprtmental secretariat] doing nothing; the legal costs, office 
> rentals, staff payments are on his pocket
> * Cdes Narius and Mphethi have a disagreement over the R200 000 Election 
> Registration Fee that was paid back by the IEC
> * Cde Mphethi went to his Deputy Muendane over this disagreement
> * Cde Narius wrote to Cde Muendane telling him he is NO-LONGER A DEPUTY 
> PRESIDENT because he was appointed wrongly not following Conference 
> resolutions, [what is interesting here is that Moloto did not write to Fihla 
> telling him the same]
> * In July Cde Moloto wrote a communique saying the NEC is below 30% quorum
> * All those co-option that were made by Cde Mphethi disappeared ONLY two 
> remained Fihla & Muendane _{though Muendane was told he was appointed 
> wrongly}_, Mphethi co-opted Pasika Nontshiza as Acting National Organizer and 
> Cde Mapule Nkoana as Acting Finance Secretary - - - NEC had problem with the 
> appointments especially with Notshiza, that did not sit well with Mphethi
> * 26 - 27 July there was an extended NEC meeting where Cde Mphethi invoked 
> Decree 3 times keep on reversing it,
> * 30 July Mphethi invoke a Decree
> * letters are flying in all directions from Mphethi & Narius - justifying a 
> Decree and dismissing a Decree; suspending each other at the end Mphethi 
> claim that Narius is exp

Re: [PAYCO] RE: focused practical action

[Linda Ndebele]

ch Region/ Province there 
must be people who will take the responsibility to ensure this work is done. At 
the National level there must be an all-inclusive meeting of leaders from all 
provinces to engage on best possible roadmap to save the organization.

Having agreed on the Roadmap, then a All-inclusive Pan Africanist 
Conference/Convention, then Annual National Conference of PAC (focus on 
Policies, Program of Action, etc), then an electing PAC Annual National 
Conference (Congress). . .this can be rollout over the period of 12 - 18 months.

*   all-inclusive meeting of leaders from all provinces 
  - Sept 2014
*   All-inclusive Pan Africanist Conference/Convention  
- Dec  2014
*   Annual National Conference of PAC (Policies, Program of Action, etc)
- June 2015
*   electing PAC Annual National Conference (Congress)  
 - Dec  2015 

This can only work if we can be practical . . .

iAfrika

From: "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi" 

M’Afrika

 

Comrade Linda, Comrade  and Comrade Charge-in and all, from words to action, 
are comrades willing to mobilise fellow comrades-branches and form part of an 
open and inclusive meeting to consider all options including those proposed by 
Cde Linda?  We must bring into one pot all initiatives to create one common 
action plan to salvage the PAC!

 

The disintegration of PAC must be arrested!

 

Shango lashu

NKrumah

 

On 2014-09-04 11:18, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za wrote:

Inkathazo abaselulawulweni bathi ayikho ingxaki . . .noba izibonakalela nje !

The two calls you mentioned are supported by many of us . . .what is needed 
though is to ensure that this call is endorsed and supported by our structures 
where we belong and those structures has to be open about that. . .Let our 
structures in our branches, regions and provinces come out to officially 
pronounce and demand that to be done.

It is our duty in all our regions to mobilize structures into this call and 
those structures can take a particular stance . . .in doing so we ought to 
understand that not everyone nor every structure will agree, it is the 
challenge that we have to deal with to ensure that the majority of structures 
in our regions buys into this call then that can be the official branch, 
regional and provincial position supported by the majority branches.

Anything less than the majority support for this call is the prolonged chaos as 
we see. . .

The mobilization of structures into this call needs leadership, we need to give 
that leadership on the ground otherwise lets forget we will forever talk with 
no progress.

iAfrika

 

 

On 2014-09-04 10:54, Linda Ndebele wrote:

Greetings comrades,
Indeed our belovered movement is in crisis. The challenge is that we are in a 
denial mode. Those who are in control of levers of power hold a view that all 
is in order because they are in power and it will augur negatively if they 
accept that the party is getting weaker each day under their guard. Those who 
are outside of power, we hold a view that the party is in crisis, we don't 
blame ourselves but those in power. In isizulu we say "Inkombankombane, lowo 
nalowo uvikela ihlo lakhe".
What makes one not to see the light at the end of the tunnel, is that out of 
all these discussions we hardly find a convergence point in terms of the 
wayforward. Neither side presents any concrete plan and steps to rescue the 
party from the quagmire it finds itself. There has been two interesting calls 
made that have not been entertained to this end. 1. The holding of an 
all-inclusive Conference (whose aim would be to reconcile different factions, 
look at the state of the party and devise strategies and decisions that can 
resuscitate the PAC) 2. The call for a National Programme of Action (whose 
purpose would be to marshal our efforts and gear PAC for state power).
I am quite certain comrades that hailing insults to each other and refusing to 
take collective responsibility to the current state of the party will not help 
our movement anyhow but will continue to discourage and demoralize our die-hard 
members and drive in droves young supporters to EFF and other political parties.
Leaders who must take PAC forward are those who are prepared to take ownership 
to the mess PAC find itself and invite all to assist in cleaning up our 
movement. We need leaders who would be hands-on, selfless and who can rise 
above the problem.
I believe PAC can be rescued only if we accept that we are in crisis, we all 
contributed to it and we need everybody's shoulder on the deck to get our 
movement out of this mess.
Izwe lethu!
Linda Kwame Ndebele 

Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

From: "'Mbuyiselo Kantso' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress" 


Sender: payco@googlegroups.com

[PAYCO] Re: focused practical action

[Linda Ndebele]

> 4. They must organise a PAC conference not a convention just to avoid a 
> gathering with no constitutional status and then members can propose for an 
> earlier elective congress knowing that there is no longer an NEC left.. 
> 
> 5. To address Cde. Fihla's concerns on the how part it is our duty to tell 
> those whom we identify with closely as elected in Butterworth to assist the 
> process as we see it. 
> 
> 6. It is unavoidable that the reports of the President and the Secretary 
> General are likely to raise party problems and challenges like discipline, 
> parallels, lack of programmes and whatever will be presented must be accepted 
> except for aspects which maybe divisive. 
> 
> 7. Then we can establish a congress preparatory committee that will deal with 
> all administrative matters needed for a successful congress. 
> 
> Lastly my view is that when we finalise find a consensus beyond these pity 
> issues then we must try hard to encourage a constructive engagement on future 
> leadership and if we lucky there must a consensus on at least key important 
> positions that requires a highly matured future leadership. 
> 
> Izwe Lethu 
> 
> On Thursday, September 4, 2014 5:32 PM, "sndam...@pac-cape.org.za" 
>  wrote: 
> 
> Comrades, 
> 
> Let us organize our branches and they must identify positively with the 
> possible corrective measures to save the PAC. In each Region/ Province there 
> must be people who will take the responsibility to ensure this work is done. 
> At the National level there must be an all-inclusive meeting of leaders from 
> all provinces to engage on best possible roadmap to save the organization. 
> 
> Having agreed on the Roadmap, then a All-inclusive Pan Africanist 
> Conference/Convention, then Annual National Conference of PAC (focus on 
> Policies, Program of Action, etc), then an electing PAC Annual National 
> Conference (Congress). . .this can be rollout over the period of 12 - 18 
> months. 
> 
> * all-inclusive meeting of leaders from all provinces - SEPT 2014
> * All-inclusive Pan Africanist Conference/Convention - DEC  2014
> * Annual National Conference of PAC (Policies, Program of Action, etc) - JUNE 
> 2015
> * electing PAC Annual National Conference (Congress) - DEC  2015 
> 
> This can only work if we can be practical . . . 
> 
> iAfrika 
> 
> FROM: "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi"  
> 
> M'Afrika 
> 
> Comrade Linda, Comrade and Comrade Charge-in and all, from words to action, 
> are comrades willing to mobilise fellow comrades-branches and form part of an 
> open and inclusive meeting to consider all options including those proposed 
> by Cde Linda? We must bring into one pot all initiatives to create one common 
> action plan to salvage the PAC! 
> 
> The disintegration of PAC must be arrested! 
> 
> Shango lashu 
> 
> NKrumah 
> 
> On 2014-09-04 11:18, sndam...@pac-cape.org.za wrote: 
> 
> Inkathazo abaselulawulweni bathi ayikho ingxaki . . .noba izibonakalela nje ! 
> 
> The two calls you mentioned are supported by many of us . . .what is needed 
> though is to ensure that this call is endorsed and supported by our 
> structures where we belong and those structures has to be open about that. . 
> .Let our structures in our branches, regions and provinces come out to 
> officially pronounce and demand that to be done. 
> 
> It is our duty in all our regions to mobilize structures into this call and 
> those structures can take a particular stance . . .in doing so we ought to 
> understand that not everyone nor every structure will agree, it is the 
> challenge that we have to deal with to ensure that the majority of structures 
> in our regions buys into this call then that can be the official branch, 
> regional and provincial position supported by the majority branches. 
> 
> Anything less than the majority support for this call is the prolonged chaos 
> as we see. . . 
> 
> The mobilization of structures into this call needs leadership, we need to 
> give that leadership on the ground otherwise lets forget we will forever talk 
> with no progress. 
> 
> iAfrika 
> 
> On 2014-09-04 10:54, Linda Ndebele wrote: 
> Greetings comrades,
> Indeed our belovered movement is in crisis. The challenge is that we are in a 
> denial mode. Those who are in control of levers of power hold a view that all 
> is in order because they are in power and it will augur negatively if they 
> accept that the party is getting weaker each day under their guard. Those who 
> are outside of power, we hold a view that the party is in crisis, we don't 
> blame ourselves but those in power. In isizulu we say "Inkombankombane, lowo 
> nalowo 

Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

[Linda Ndebele]

Any initiative aimed at getting PAC right has to be supported. I am in and will 
lobby other comrades and branches to do the same.

Izwe lethu!
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 16:00:10 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: 'Kutie Thondlana'; ; 
'mrfihla08'; ; 'Admin @ 
Pac'; 'Wandisile Gajana'; 'eddie 
mfulwane'; ; 'Johnson 
Mlambo'; ; 
; 'Tumediso Modise'; 
'Xola Tyamzashe'; ; 
; 'Alton Mphethi'; 
; 'phillip Dhlamini'; 
; 'Cape'; 
; 'PAC TSHWANE'; 'PAC 
Mogale city PAC'; ; 'Phumzile 
Nomnga'; ; 'Narius 
Moloto'; 'Smoll Zondo'; 'Sbusiso 
Xaba'; ; 'Lehlogonolo 
Digashu'; 
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

M’Afrika

 

Comrade Linda, Comrade  and Comrade Charge-in and all, from words to action, 
are comrades willing to mobilise fellow comrades-branches and form part of an 
open and inclusive meeting to consider all options including those proposed by 
Cde Linda?  We must bring into one pot all initiatives to create one common 
action plan to salvage the PAC!

 

The disintegration of PAC must be arrested!

 

Shango lashu

NKrumah

 

From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Linda 
Ndebele
Sent: 04 September 2014 03:31 PM
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; mrfihla08; 
linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; Admin @ Pac; Wandisile Gajana; eddie mfulwane; 
richardma...@yahoo.com; Johnson Mlambo; ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; 
takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; Tumediso Modise; Xola Tyamzashe; 
tnta...@webmail.co.za; isaa...@diplomat-global.com; Alton Mphethi; 
lea...@hotmail.com; phillip Dhlamini; p...@vodamail.co.za; Cape; 
pasmapresid...@gmail.com; PAC TSHWANE; PAC Mogale city PAC; 
pac.nc...@gmail.com; Phumzile Nomnga; pacaza...@webmail.co.za; Narius Moloto; 
Smoll Zondo; Sbusiso Xaba; dud...@webmail.co.za; Lehlogonolo Digashu; 
dmalo...@klerksdorp.org
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

 

Comrades,

The levels of factionalism in our party makes one doubt any possibility of 
getting the party right. The level of engagement is below par and mainly 
focuses on attacking personalities. I maintain my view that our engagements 
lacks practical steps towards resolving the myriad of problems facing our PAC. 
The absence of substantive intellectual engagements "battle of ideas" drives us 
to identify with those who can articulate better or who can buy us "fish & 
chips" without reading nor understanding the purpose of their actions.

Comrades, we must indicate some of us that we want to make our historical input 
in our lifetime in the struggle to emancipate our people and Africa from all 
kinds of oppression. We can't wait forever for PAC to get right, its either we 
make an effort to cleanse it Now or we pursue the ideals of PAC elsewhere. Time 
comrades waits no man. We cannot continue to be patient with this madness.

Some people probably are happy to be part of a small and insignificant PAC, we 
are not. We know the potential of the PAC. PAC with its ideology and its 
policies can overrun any political party in this country. We need a mass-based 
PAC,militant and revolutionary.

We need to revitalize PAC and its urgent. I am convinced that the following can 
lead PAC to find itself:

1. Intervention of party veterans and stalwarts (facilitate mediation and 
reconciliation between feuding factions) We were prepared to reconcile with 
boers, why not with our own?
2. Withdrawal of all suspensions and expulsions (token of peace and unity)
3. Place moratorium on expulsion of councillors and MP's
4. Amalgamation of component structures (get rid of parallel structures)
5. Convening of a All inclusive National Conference (purpose to unite the party 
and develop a National Programme of Action for the party)
6. Establishment of an all-inclusive Interim NEC (whose mandate will be to 
organize an elective Congress, Audit Branches and Regions, represent the party 
nationally and host the National Congress within 9 months)

We need to be practical with this and get things done. Efforts have been 
initiated by comrades like Matome Mashao, Nkrumah, Raymond Fihla and the late 
General Siyaya, late Cde Makhanda, Johnson Mlambo, Jaki Seroke and Cunningham 
Ngcukana. Let's build on those efforts and get PAC going. 

Izwe lethu!

Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

  _  

From: Tongogara Ndima  

Sender: payco@googlegroups.com 

Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 14:27:26 +0200

To: payco@googlegroups.com 
<mailto:payco@googlegroups.com%3cpa...@googlegroups.com> 


ReplyTo: payco@googlegroups.com 

Cc: Kutie Thondlana; sndam...

Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

[Linda Ndebele]

Comrades,

The levels of factionalism in our party makes one doubt any possibility of 
getting the party right. The level of engagement is below par and mainly 
focuses on attacking personalities. I maintain my view that our engagements 
lacks practical steps towards resolving the myriad of problems facing our PAC. 
The absence of substantive intellectual engagements "battle of ideas" drives us 
to identify with those who can articulate better or who can buy us "fish & 
chips" without reading nor understanding the purpose of their actions.

Comrades, we must indicate some of us that we want to make our historical input 
in our lifetime in the struggle to emancipate our people and Africa from all 
kinds of oppression. We can't wait forever for PAC to get right, its either we 
make an effort to cleanse it Now or we pursue the ideals of PAC elsewhere. Time 
comrades waits no man. We cannot continue to be patient with this madness.

Some people probably are happy to be part of a small and insignificant PAC, we 
are not. We know the potential of the PAC. PAC with its ideology and its 
policies can overrun any political party in this country. We need a mass-based 
PAC,militant and revolutionary.

We need to revitalize PAC and its urgent. I am convinced that the following can 
lead PAC to find itself:

1. Intervention of party veterans and stalwarts (facilitate mediation and 
reconciliation between feuding factions) We were prepared to reconcile with 
boers, why not with our own?
2. Withdrawal of all suspensions and expulsions (token of peace and unity)
3. Place moratorium on expulsion of councillors and MP's
4. Amalgamation of component structures (get rid of parallel structures)
5. Convening of a All inclusive National Conference (purpose to unite the party 
and develop a National Programme of Action for the party)
6. Establishment of an all-inclusive Interim NEC (whose mandate will be to 
organize an elective Congress, Audit Branches and Regions, represent the party 
nationally and host the National Congress within 9 months)

We need to be practical with this and get things done. Efforts have been 
initiated by comrades like Matome Mashao, Nkrumah, Raymond Fihla and the late 
General Siyaya, late Cde Makhanda, Johnson Mlambo, Jaki Seroke and Cunningham 
Ngcukana. Let's build on those efforts and get PAC going. 

Izwe lethu!


Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Tongogara Ndima 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2014 14:27:26 
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: Kutie Thondlana; 
sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; 
mrfihla08; ; Admin @ 
Pac; Wandisile Gajana; eddie 
mfulwane; 
richardma...@yahoo.com; Johnson 
Mlambo; ; 
takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; Tumediso 
Modise; Xola Tyamzashe; 
; ; Alton 
Mphethi; ; phillip 
Dhlamini; p...@vodamail.co.za; 
Cape; 
pasmapresid...@gmail.com; PAC 
TSHWANE; PAC Mogale city 
PAC; pac.nc...@gmail.com; 
Phumzile Nomnga; 
pacaza...@webmail.co.za; Narius 
Moloto; Smoll Zondo; Sbusiso 
Xaba; dud...@webmail.co.za; 
Lehlogonolo Digashu; ; sandla 
goqwana; Solly Hlubi; 
joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; sindi 
mbele; L Lekgwathi<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; Lucas 
Mmola; Zola Nyamela; Billiard 
Seth; bulanng...@gmail.com; 
; ; 
ndhlo...@pac.org.za; Nakaphala 
Bauba; nnyq...@gmail.com; Michael 
Muendane; Mapula Nkoana; justice 
mvakali; L.R. Mbinda; Mohlomphegi 
Mphahlele; Malinge Plaatjie; 
; Albert Mokoena; Moshe 
Mahlomola; Pinkie Monyane; 
mop...@pac.org.za; Ndade Mxunya; 
po...@yahoo.com; 
celenjabulo...@gmail.com; ; 
Dumisani Zwane; Vusi .Mahlangu
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

Comrade Zondo

Your statement makes sense but you are dishonest. Cde Moloto has been
paying for yourself and Eddie Mfulwane to attend NEC meetings and support
his positions as far back as 11 May 2013. Your PAYCO is not driving any PAC
Programmes among the youths in the country buts has been a voting cattle
for Moloto NEC Grouping. Some of your youths members like Eddie Mfulwane,
Justice Digashu and others are paid by Moloto to do what Moloto seeks
from PAYCO. PYACO has no provincial, regional structures across the country
with only handful few branches.

We know radical and revolutionary AZANYU

As PAYCO you have no youth programmes to mobilise and challenge the
dominance of the ANCYL, DA Youth Organisation is doing far much better.
Remember, PASMA collapsed under your leadership with Eddie Mfulwane, now
PAYCO will be written off! PAC with all its mistakes and weaknesses, we
used to pride ourselves about militant and revolutionary AZANYU, PASO and
PASMA leadership and membership which was ideologically sound and
politically sharp but today PAYCO has become a shame.

You are leading PAYCO and a small pocket size trade union? All this is just
a money making scheme, typical of lumpens.

Withdraw yourself from being scrop-lappie of some moneyed people in PAC and
focus on uniting and building PAYCO. 

Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

[Linda Ndebele]

Greetings comrades,

Indeed our belovered movement is in crisis. The challenge is that we are in a 
denial mode. Those who are in control of levers of power hold a view that all 
is in order because they are in power and it will augur negatively if they 
accept that the party is getting weaker each day under their guard. Those who 
are outside of power, we hold a view that the party is in crisis, we don't 
blame ourselves but those in power. In isizulu we say "Inkombankombane, lowo 
nalowo uvikela ihlo lakhe".

What makes one not to see the light at the end of the tunnel, is that out of 
all these discussions we hardly find a convergence point in terms of the 
wayforward. Neither side presents any concrete plan and steps to rescue the 
party from the quagmire it finds itself. There has been two interesting calls 
made that have not been entertained to this end. 1. The holding of an 
all-inclusive Conference (whose aim would be to reconcile different factions, 
look at the state of the party and devise strategies and decisions that can 
resuscitate the PAC) 2. The call for a National Programme of Action (whose 
purpose would be to marshal our efforts and gear PAC for state power).

I am quite certain comrades that hailing insults to each other and refusing to 
take collective responsibility to the current state of the party will not help 
our movement anyhow but will continue to discourage and demoralize our die-hard 
members and drive in droves young supporters to EFF and other political parties.

Leaders who must take PAC forward are those who are prepared to take ownership 
to the mess PAC find itself and invite all to assist in cleaning up our 
movement. We need leaders who would be hands-on, selfless and who can rise 
above the problem.

I believe PAC can be rescued only if we accept that we are in crisis, we all 
contributed to it and we need everybody's shoulder on the deck to get our 
movement out of this mess.

Izwe lethu!

Linda Kwame Ndebele 
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "'Mbuyiselo Kantso' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress" 

Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2014 23:41:17 
To: payco@googlegroups.com; 
linda.ndeb...@newcastle.gov.za; 
ad...@pac.org.za; wgaj...@gmail.com; 
rammymfulw...@gmail.com; 
richardma...@yahoo.com; 
river.mla...@telkomsa.net; 
ramotw...@maruleng.gov.za; 
takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; 
tumimod...@hotmail.co.za; 
tyamza...@yahoo.com; 
tnta...@webmail.co.za; 
isaa...@diplomat-global.com; 
i...@bataufc.com; lea...@hotmail.com; 
phillipdhlam...@yahoo.com; 
p...@vodamail.co.za; 
paccapeme...@webmail.co.za; 
pasmapresid...@gmail.com; 
pactshwanereg...@gmail.com; 
pacmogalec...@gmail.com; 
pac.nc...@gmail.com; 
phumzilenom...@hotmail.co.za; 
pacaza...@webmail.co.za; 
s...@pac.org.za; smollzo...@gmail.com; 
sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; 
sbusiso.x...@gmail.com; 
dud...@webmail.co.za; 
digashuma...@gmail.com; 
dmalo...@klerksdorp.org; 
goqwana.san...@gmail.com; 
hlubi.so...@gmail.com; 
joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; 
jntab...@gmail.com; 
kutie.thondl...@gmail.com; 'L 
Lekgwathi'<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; 
lucasmmol...@gmail.com; 
znyam...@gmail.com; 
billiard.s...@gmail.com; 
bulanng...@gmail.com; 
bennet_j...@yahoo.com; 
bulelanim1...@nokiamail.com; 
ndhlo...@pac.org.za; 'Nakaphala 
Bauba'; nnyq...@gmail.com; 
m...@soultalk.co.za; 
mapulankoan...@gmail.com; 
mvakalijust...@gmail.com; 
mbind...@gmail.com; 
mrfihl...@gmail.com; 
mphah...@eskom.co.za; 
malingeplaat...@yahoo.com; 
mphothobej...@yahoo.com; 
mokoen...@workmail.co.za; 
moshemahlom...@gmail.com; 
monyanepin...@gmail.com; 
mop...@pac.org.za; mnd...@yahoo.com; 
po...@yahoo.com; 
celenjabulo...@gmail.com; 
njabulo.m...@gmail.com; 
vu...@telkomsa.net; 
dumisani...@gmail.com
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] FW: attack on party annual conference

Morning Cde. Raymond
 
I think it is now clear that up and above the feuding NEC you have an 
individual in the form of an S.G who thinks he wilds a wisdom above all others. 
By the way you are talking about a so called board room or office bound NEC 
which operates somewhere in a building in Joburg which can hardly pull one 
revolutionary programme. In terms of the history of the PAC you maybe sitting 
with an SG who has performed worse than any other S.G at any given. 
 
The SG went to several media houses claiming the PAC is ready to govern and the 
elections results suggest something else. Any revolutionary leader must be a 
person whom when time calls for serious introspection and checks and balances 
he does so to assist the party not his/her self righteousness 
attitude/mentality. Relying only on a conference which will have bussed and 
ghost branches wont assist the party in anyway. Take the Birchwood Conference I 
am told there were bussed delegates who never participated in discussions and 
some were drinking alcohol as they were there for an outing.
 
 For me arguing endlessly with

Re: [PAYCO] Clause 14 (b) has to be scrapped

[Linda Ndebele]

Cde Nkrumah,

I am conscious of that and accept wholehearted what you are saying. The 
challenge is that reaching the ideal is very complex. We have been working for 
years to drum in those realities but people just behave like lunatics.

To build PAC we need to build it on collective wisdom and authority. Decisions 
must be that of the NEC not those of the President. Clause 14 (b) elevates an 
individual over and above the collective. Whether the situation was normal or 
not, I would have called for 14 (b) to be repealed. Its in sharp conflict with 
the principle of democratic centralism.

The material conditions that necessitated clause 14 (b) no longer exist 
therefore must go.

Izwe lethu!


Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2014 14:56:00 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: ; ; 'MoAfrica wa 
Azania'; 'Keith Moyce'; 'Malinge 
Plaatjie'; 'Lucas 
Masemola'; ; 'karabo 
mokgojwa'; ; 'Solly 
Hlubi'; ; 'KHOISAN 
SONTI'; 'Cape'; 'Siyabulela 
Ndamane'; 'Babalwa Malawu'; 
; ; ; 
; ; 'kgothatso 
sithole'; ; 
; 'sindi mbele'; 'tsatsawani 
chauke'; ; 'Dimakatso 
Moletsane'; 'Maciej Radzio'; 
'Excellent Rikhotso'; 'SELLO IRVIN 
LESABANE'; ; 
; 'Vusi Mahlangu'; 'Mbulelo 
Raymond'
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Clause 14 (b) has to be scrapped

Izwe lethu M'Afrika

14 (b) is a microcosm of the deep ideological and organisational problem
facing the party, therefore scrapping 14 (b) is not necessarily a solution.
The core problem is mainly the character and form of leadership as a party
we have from national to regional including branch level, and the reversal
of this perspective is that leadership has become a reflection of the
quality membership of PAC today! The beauty of roses reflect both the type
of the plant and roots including soil! If the roots can't penetrate the soil
to absorb desired nutrients then one should not expect colourful roses! 


To resolve the leadership problem in the medium to long term, we must
qualitatively improve and grow the party membership!  To change the
government by ballot or bullet, you must win the masses over politically
through mass work and constant political education! The same logic applies
internally to the party!

Kind regards
Nkrumah

-Original Message-
From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
Linda Ndebele
Sent: 29 August 2014 02:44 PM
To: payco@googlegroups.com; 'Mbulelo Raymond'
Cc: d...@pac.org.za; bulanng...@gmail.com; 'MoAfrica wa Azania'; 'Keith
Moyce'; 'Malinge Plaatjie'; 'Lucas Masemola'; m...@pac.org.za; 'karabo
mokgojwa'; pasmapresid...@gmail.com; 'Solly Hlubi';
danielmamony...@gmail.com; 'KHOISAN SONTI'; 'Cape'; 'Siyabulela Ndamane';
'Babalwa Malawu'; nol...@nactu.org.za; zun...@tut.ac.za;
legalu...@sacwu.co.za; manaopane7...@nokiamail.com; clementmar...@yahoo.com;
'kgothatso sithole'; gemoanako...@webmail.co.za; nnyq...@gmail.com; 'sindi
mbele'; 'tsatsawani chauke'; zozoj...@yahoo.com; 'Dimakatso Moletsane';
'Maciej Radzio'; 'Mofihli Likotsi'; 'Excellent Rikhotso'; 'SELLO IRVIN
LESABANE'
Subject: [PAYCO] Clause 14 (b) has to be scrapped

Greetings!

One of the things I will be lobbying for is the scrapping of Clause 14 (b)
in the PAC constitution. This Clause has complicated the state of the party.
It has been abused and manipulated to destroy the party.

What's your take comrades.

Izwe lethu!


Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:01:35
To: ; 'Mbulelo Raymond'
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: ; ; 'MoAfrica wa
Azania'; 'Keith Moyce';
'Malinge Plaatjie'; 'Lucas
Masemola'; ; 'karabo
mokgojwa'; ; 'Solly
Hlubi'; ; 'KHOISAN
SONTI'; 'Cape';
'Siyabulela Ndamane'; 'Babalwa
Malawu'; ; ;
; ;
; 'kgothatso sithole';
; ; 'sindi
mbele'; 'tsatsawani chauke';
; 'Dimakatso Moletsane';
'Maciej Radzio'; 'Mofihli Likotsi';
'Excellent Rikhotso'; 'SELLO IRVIN
LESABANE'
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Need for serious introspection: What to do to advance
the struggle?

Comrade Linda

The five (5) questions you raised haunts many within the party amidst the
silence. Hopes about the party continues to be dashed and short lived by
persisting misfortunes that overwhelms the party and i

[PAYCO] Clause 14 (b) has to be scrapped

[Linda Ndebele]

Greetings!

One of the things I will be lobbying for is the scrapping of Clause 14 (b) in 
the PAC constitution. This Clause has complicated the state of the party. It 
has been abused and manipulated to destroy the party.

What's your take comrades.

Izwe lethu!


Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:01:35 
To: ; 'Mbulelo Raymond'
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: ; ; 'MoAfrica wa 
Azania'; 'Keith Moyce'; 'Malinge 
Plaatjie'; 'Lucas 
Masemola'; ; 'karabo 
mokgojwa'; ; 'Solly 
Hlubi'; ; 'KHOISAN 
SONTI'; 'Cape'; 'Siyabulela 
Ndamane'; 'Babalwa Malawu'; 
; ; ; 
; ; 'kgothatso 
sithole'; ; 
; 'sindi mbele'; 'tsatsawani 
chauke'; ; 'Dimakatso 
Moletsane'; 'Maciej Radzio'; 
'Mofihli Likotsi'; 'Excellent 
Rikhotso'; 'SELLO IRVIN 
LESABANE'
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Need for serious introspection: What to do to advance the 
struggle?

Comrade Linda

The five (5) questions you raised haunts many within the party amidst the
silence. Hopes about the party continues to be dashed and short lived by
persisting misfortunes that overwhelms the party and its membership.
However, one political reality is that the party is faced with a two line
ideological struggle, one political thought seeks to re-organise the PAC
along Marxist-Leninist traditions to assume and advance a mass based
revolutionary programme rooted on socialist principles which places the
African Workers as the only motive force to overthrow the capitalist and
white supremacist system, that's has assumed a neo-colonial character.  

The other second political thought and practice is the one which seeks to
subject the PAC into the current neo-liberal agenda, whereat the PAC serves
as an extension and part of the neo-colonial system on the ground that the
"freedom" fought for had been achieved and there is an African Government
that must be supported. 

Sadly, the PAC today is led by proponents of the second political thought,
hence in the Y-Analysis made by Cde Mashoa, he has has avidly pointed that "
Many of our young comrades and the so-called middle class, are held hostage
by this money group. It provides them crumbs enough to survive and to keep
them tools for their cause." It is the money'ed group which we opted to
describe and define as a comprador bourgeoisie which has successfully
captured the PAC and it remains directly responsible for its current state
of political and organisational disintegration aiming to destroy and kill
from PAC's organisational practices the existence and presence of
revolutionary practices. The ideological decay and the political rot thus
organisational disintegration has unfortunately being cascaded to across all
party structures including component structures, hence parallel structures.
Equally, the very same comprador bourgeoisie are redefining the PAC to
become an African nationalist capitalist political formation which will
argue good governance slogan as is the case with other neo-liberal political
parties. 

Constitutionally PAC has no NEC! Thus no-one and no group can claim to be
constitutionally a PAC NEC!

All the conferences organised by the now two feuding NEC groupings, namely
Moloto's NEC grouping is organising September 2014 Conference while Mpthi
NEC Grouping is organising December 2014 Conference, these conferences aims
at consolidating factional group's interests than forging principled unity
of PAC members and branches, hence our view that PAC branches and members
should denounce such events and starts on building principled party unity
starting from branch level to inclusive regional and provincial conferences.


We must accept that PAC members had been successfully turned against each,
in a manner never seen before! 

This occurrences was bound to occur, we have however underestimated its
actual capacity of political and ideological destruction. They have achieved
in less 24 months, what CIA, MOSSAD, MI0 and other instruments of
imperialism combined failed to achieve, that is, total destruction of PAC! 

I suggest, if you will agree that your five questions, be subjected to an
in-depth analysis and deliberations, for in these questions resides only
primary question "What Is To Be Done? 

Above all the comprador bourgeoisie leading the three feuding NEC groupings
will not subject themselves to any form of democratic centralism, they do
not seek an orderly and normal PAC! PAC branches and 

Shango lashu
Nkrumah

-Original Message-
From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
Linda Ndebele
Sent: 24 August 2014 08:08 PM
To: payco@googlegroups.com; Mbulelo Raymond
Cc: d...@p

[PAYCO] Need for serious introspection: What to do to advance the struggle?

[Linda Ndebele]

Revolutionary greetings!

Comrades one is confronted by serious personal questions as to the role one 
should play in the struggle in view of the current state of the PAC in response 
to the country's political statues quo.

The state of the party continues to cripples our contribution and role in the 
struggle to emancipate our people. We are unable to use our talents, skills, 
intellectual capital and passion for politics for the benefit of our cause.

The leadership wrangles in the party has frustrated us the youth in terms of 
growth and being nurtured for leadership. We have been seen and described as a 
threat to those in leadership as opposed to be a resource in the PAC.

Party structures are faced with serious challenges. Factionalism and divisions 
have been inculcated and are unable to add value to the growth of the PAC and 
its footprint in the Azania's polical landscape.

Comrades I am one of those comrades who would be doing a serious introspection 
to find myself and to define his way forward. I will be confronting the 
following questions:

1. Is the PAC the only vehicle to lead our people to emancipation?
2. Is the PAC in the state to contest power in our lifetime?
3. Are leadership wrangles in the party possible to resolve anytime soon?
4. Is there a room for the youth in the party to lead the party anytime soon?
5. Can one find political home outside PAC without betraying the glorious 
history of PAC, its founding leaders and the cause it was established for?

Indeed the next few weeks would be difficult one as one have to take a decision 
that might lead one to leave the party I have served for over 20 years. 
Comrades we joined PAC for what it stands for not for fun. We are not just 
enticed by the name PAC. My support for PAC cannot be just like supporting a 
soccer team.

I will appreciate guidance from you dear comrades.

Izwe lethu!

Linda Ndebele 
--Original Message--
To: payco@googlegroups.com
To: Mbulelo Raymond
Cc: d...@pac.org.za
Cc: bulanng...@gmail.com
Cc: MoAfrica wa Azania
Cc: Keith Moyce
Cc: Malinge Plaatjie
Cc: Lucas Masemola
Cc: m...@pac.org.za
Cc: karabo mokgojwa
Cc: pasmapresid...@gmail.com
Cc: Solly Hlubi
Cc: danielmamony...@gmail.com
Cc: KHOISAN SONTI
Cc: Cape
Cc: Siyabulela Ndamane
Cc: Babalwa Malawu
Cc: nol...@nactu.org.za
Cc: zun...@tut.ac.za
Cc: legalu...@sacwu.co.za
Cc: manaopane7...@nokiamail.com
Cc: clementmar...@yahoo.com
Cc: kgothatso sithole
Cc: gemoanako...@webmail.co.za
Cc: nnyq...@gmail.com
Cc: sindi mbele
Cc: tsatsawani chauke
Cc: zozoj...@yahoo.com
Cc: Dimakatso Moletsane
Cc: Maciej Radzio
Cc: Mofihli Likotsi
Cc: Excellent Rikhotso
Cc: SELLO IRVIN LESABANE
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] The Y Road
Sent: Aug 22, 2014 19:41

Greetings cde Matome,

Wish to acknowledge and appreciate your efforts in repositioning and rebuilding 
our movement. We have witnessed your selfless efforts crisscrossing the country 
in an attempt to develop the Programme of Action.

Some of us are convinced that we have no other option but taking Left. We 
cannot lead our people to emancipation if we follow ANC/DA neo-liberal agenda, 
the right path of Y.

We need to reposition ourselves and PAC if we have to succeed in this difficult 
route we seek to endevour.

Rest assured son of the soil we are with you all the way.

Izwe lethu!

Linda 

--Original Message--
From: matome
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
To: payco@googlegroups.com
To: Mbulelo Raymond
Cc: d...@pac.org.za
Cc: bulanng...@gmail.com
Cc: MoAfrica wa Azania
Cc: Keith Moyce
Cc: Malinge Plaatjie
Cc: Lucas Masemola
Cc: m...@pac.org.za
Cc: karabo mokgojwa
Cc: pasmapresid...@gmail.com
Cc: Solly Hlubi
Cc: danielmamony...@gmail.com
Cc: KHOISAN SONTI
Cc: Cape
Cc: Siyabulela Ndamane
Cc: Babalwa Malawu
Cc: nol...@nactu.org.za
Cc: zun...@tut.ac.za
Cc: legalu...@sacwu.co.za
Cc: manaopane7...@nokiamail.com
Cc: clementmar...@yahoo.com
Cc: kgothatso sithole
Cc: gemoanako...@webmail.co.za
Cc: nnyq...@gmail.com
Cc: sindi mbele
Cc: tsatsawani chauke
Cc: zozoj...@yahoo.com
Cc: Dimakatso Moletsane
Cc: Maciej Radzio
Cc: Mofihli Likotsi
Cc: Excellent Rikhotso
Cc: SELLO IRVIN LESABANE
ReplyTo: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] The Y Road
Sent: Aug 22, 2014 18:14

Attention: Members and Supporters of the PACAugust 2014
Re:The Y Road - Which way to go?
During the month of July I extended an invitation to our cadres, leaders, 
members and supporters for an effort at constructing a revolutionary program of 
action in leading our people to a bloody engagement with the system and then to 
prosperity.
I now wish to share the lessons picked along the way so far in executing this 
work. You will see from the update below that the extent of the rot and the 
challenges ahead cannot be resolved through simple answers.  You will also see 
for yourself from this brief that the suggestion that the party is teetering on 
the brink of total collapse is not without justification, let alone the 
suggestion that the party is distant from 

Re: [PAYCO] The Y Road

[Linda Ndebele]

resent 
whether big or small, whether revolutionary or not.

The other path is the left of the Y road. This road is riddled with potholes. 
Its defining character and form is a bloody engagement with the system. It 
entails a direct confrontation of the system, the ruling elite and all their 
institutions. On this path many will die, many will be tortured and 
incarcerated, many will starve, and the country will go ablaze. Comfort will be 
lost and hardship will be the order of the day. Assassinations will rule, the 
oppressive laws will be undermined. The sky will turn pale, oxygen polluted by 
the fire power of both the enemy and the people. Many of us will not live to 
see the end victory. But victory is certain, however long it will take. This is 
the path of honor and service to our people. It is a revolution.

I have made my choice. It is the left of the Y Road that I want to take. It is 
the left of the Y Road that informs the Program of Action I am putting forward 
for consideration by our members and cadres alike. Our mission is the abolition 
of a system of deceit and robbery. A system that is based on the suffocation of 
the many by the few.  It is a path that must restore an African as a standing 
and confident participant in the community of nations.  It is a path that can 
and must abolish class subjugation and a class mode of operation in our 
society.  This path must supersede our fears and organizational trappings.
Like all revolutions, this path has no guarantees, except a guarantee of honor 
in life or death.
I decided, following my visit and travels to share this so that there is no 
ambiguity on what the intentions are, and the line of march.
This will also help everybody when inter-phasing with our program of action to 
understand our premise and outlook.
I again, wish to sincerely thank you, for your contributions in whatever form, 
and do hereby invite all of us to join the left of the Y Road.
The IOTA Program is the way!!
Matome Mashao - 084 709 2285









Sent from my BlackBerry(R)

-Original Message-
From: "'Mawethu Sidzamba' via Pan Africanist Youth Congress" 

Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 02:42:54 
To: Mbulelo Raymond; 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: ; ; MoAfrica wa 
Azania; Keith Moyce; Malinge 
Plaatjie; Lucas Masemola; 
m...@pac.org.za; karabo mokgojwa; 
pasmapresid...@gmail.com; Solly 
Hlubi; 
danielmamony...@gmail.com; KHOISAN 
SONTI; Cape; Siyabulela 
Ndamane; ; Babalwa 
Malawu; nol...@nactu.org.za; 
zun...@tut.ac.za; 
legalu...@sacwu.co.za; ; 
clementmar...@yahoo.com; kgothatso 
sithole; 
gemoanako...@webmail.co.za; 
nnyq...@gmail.com; sindi mbele; 
tsatsawani chauke; ; Dimakatso 
Moletsane; Maciej Radzio; Mofihli 
Likotsi; Excellent Rikhotso; 
SELLO IRVIN LESABANE
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Re: blame game same as pretending to be normal is not 
helping

Cde Linda

We heed your call and we have done everything possible to air views on this 
forum,brilliant suggestions were made, some discussions went well and some not 
,some are ignored understandably because there is nothing that actually binds 
everyone to participate,motivation is another story.

There is also hardly a time where we reflect on an event of recency where we 
could all or most of us be located at the same time and this has become our 
sole "meeting point" to either vent,gloat,cheerlead one another almost to a 
state of monotony.We always fancifully speak,which we should, of a programme of 
action which seeks to unite the movement and whose timing is always on an 
uncertain future date.

While an exchange of ideas is key and welcome, theorising is not all we can 
offer.


On Thu, 8/21/14, Linda Ndebele  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Re: blame game same as pretending to be normal is not 
helping
 To: "Mbulelo Raymond" 
 Cc: d...@pac.org.za, bulanng...@gmail.com, "MoAfrica wa Azania" 
, "Keith Moyce" , "Malinge 
Plaatjie" , "Lucas Masemola" 
, "m...@pac.org.za" , "karabo 
mokgojwa" , "pasmapresid...@gmail.com" 
, "Solly Hlubi" , 
"danielmamony...@gmail.com" , "KHOISAN SONTI" 
, "Cape" , "Siyabulela 
Ndamane" , payco@googlegroups.com, "Babalwa Malawu" 
, "nol...@nactu.org.za" , 
"zun...@tut.ac.za" , "legalu...@sacwu.co.za" 
, manaopane7...@nokiamail.com, "clementmar...@yahoo.com" 
, "kgothatso sithole" , 
"gemoanako...@webmail.co.za" ,
 "nnyq...@gmail.com" , "sindi mbele" , 
"tsatsawani chauke" , zozoj...@yahoo.com, "Dimakatso 
Moletsane" , "Maciej Radzio" , 
"Mofihli Likotsi" , "Excellent Rikhotso" 
, "SELLO IRVIN LESABANE" 
 Date: Thursday, August 21, 2014, 10:34 AM
 
 Comrades,
 My observation is that we are loosing hope in t

Re: [PAYCO] Re: blame game same as pretending to be normal is not helping

[Linda Ndebele]

Comrades, 

My observation is that we are loosing hope in the PAC and in efforts to 
resuscitate it. I hardly see any engagement and possible strategies to get the 
party right. Little engagement has come forth to interrogate submissions made 
by cde's Matome Mashao, Nkrumah Kgagudi, Siya Ndamane and cde Ndima.

We can't comrades give up on this gigantic movement. History will judge us 
harshly if we don't play our role in getting our movement right in our forward 
march to liberate our land and our people.

Asingapheli amandla dear comrades.

Izwe lethu!

Kwame Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Mbulelo Raymond 
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 18:08:34 
To: 
Cc: ; ; MoAfrica wa 
Azania; Keith Moyce; Malinge 
Plaatjie; Lucas Masemola; 
m...@pac.org.za; karabo mokgojwa; 
pasmapresid...@gmail.com; Solly 
Hlubi; 
danielmamony...@gmail.com; KHOISAN 
SONTI; Cape; Siyabulela 
Ndamane; ; Babalwa 
Malawu; nol...@nactu.org.za; 
zun...@tut.ac.za; 
legalu...@sacwu.co.za; ; 
clementmar...@yahoo.com; kgothatso 
sithole; 
gemoanako...@webmail.co.za; 
nnyq...@gmail.com; sindi mbele; 
tsatsawani chauke; ; Dimakatso 
Moletsane; Maciej Radzio; Mofihli 
Likotsi; Excellent Rikhotso; 
SELLO IRVIN LESABANE; Lucas Mmola
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Re: blame game same as pretending to be normal is not 
helping

Sone of the soil, these questions you are raising are fundamental. I wish
the distribution could be wide enough to reach every PAC member. These are
questions that must be asked and answered in every PAC gathering, whether
at branch, regional, provincial and national levels.

Thank you poqo

Fihla
On 18 Aug 2014 4:45 PM, "Linda Ndebele"  wrote:

> Greetings comrades,
>
> The critical questions we must all respond to, is how do we get PAC right?
> How do we collectively own up to our contribution to the current state of
> the party? How do we unite PAC before uniting with EFF and other leftist
> parties? How do we rebuild the image of PAC and its structures? How do we
> make PAC relevant to our people? How do we eradicate factionalism without
> destroying this party? How do we utilize the cream of leadership we have
> produced over the years for the benefit of the party? How do we make
> parliamentary and councillor seats work for the party not against the
> party? How do we develop a uniting national Programme of Action? How do we
> utilize our diverse talents to harness our party? How do we get out of the
> leadership struggle maze? How do we position ourselves for state power? How
> do we propose to sell our policy positions to the masses of our people? How
> do we propose to be a vanguard of our people in their protestes and
> demonstrations against government? How do we plan to proactively deal with
> bread and butter issues confronting our people? How do we plan to partner
> with the trade union movement in their daily struggles? How do we reconcile
> differing factions within the party?
>
> These are some of the challenges I believe we must begin to speak to if we
> are really serious about rebuilding PAC.
>
> I am inviting robust debate in this regard.
>
> Izwe lethu!
>
> Kwame
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
> --
> *From: * Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
> *Sender: * payco@googlegroups.com
> *Date: *Sat, 9 Aug 2014 18:00:41 +0200
> *To: *Siyabulela Ndamane
> *ReplyTo: * payco@googlegroups.com
> *Cc: *MoAfrica wa Azania; tsatsawani chauke<
> tkchauke.cha...@gmail.com>; d...@pac.org.za;
> bulanng...@gmail.com; Mofihli Likotsi<
> urf@gmail.com>; Keith Moyce; KHOISAN SONTI<
> khoi.so...@gmail.com>; Solly Hlubi; Lucas Mmola<
> lucasmmol...@gmail.com>; m...@pac.org.za; <
> zozoj...@yahoo.com>; kgothatso sithole;
> pasmapresid...@gmail.com;
> danielmamony...@gmail.com; SELLO IRVIN
> LESABANE; Dimakatso Moletsane<
> bafana.phu...@hotmail.com>; sindi mbele;
> nol...@nactu.org.za; Malinge Plaatjie<
> malingeplaat...@yahoo.com>; karabo mokgojwa;
> legalu...@sacwu.co.za; zun...@tut.ac.za<
> zun...@tut.ac.za>; Cape; <
> manaopane7...@nokiamail.com>; clementmar...@yahoo.com<
> clementmar...@yahoo.com>; Excellent Rikhotso;
> nnyq...@gmail.com; gemoanako...@webmail.co.za<
> gemoanako...@webmail.co.za>; Mbulelo Raymond;
> Babalwa Malawu; Lucas Masemola<
> masemola.b...@gmail.com>; Maciej Radzio; Mapula Nkoana<
> mapulankoan...@gmail.com>; joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com<
> joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com>; celenjabulo...@gmail.com<
> celenjabulo...@gmail.com>; Sbusiso Xaba;
> Mangaliso Mdhlela; np...@mweb.co.za<
> np...@mweb.co.za>; Mohlomphegi Mphahlele;
> p...@vodamail.co.za; Dumisani Zwane<
> dumisani...@gmail.com>; 

Re: [PAYCO] Re: blame game same as pretending to be normal is not helping

[Linda Ndebele]

Greetings comrades,

The critical questions we must all respond to, is how do we get PAC right? How 
do we collectively own up to our contribution to the current state of the 
party? How do we unite PAC before uniting with EFF and other leftist parties? 
How do we rebuild the image of PAC and its structures? How do we make PAC 
relevant to our people? How do we eradicate factionalism without destroying 
this party? How do we utilize the cream of leadership we have produced over the 
years for the benefit of the party? How do we make parliamentary and councillor 
seats work for the party not against the party? How do we develop a uniting 
national Programme of Action? How do we utilize our diverse talents to harness 
our party? How do we get out of the leadership struggle maze? How do we 
position ourselves for state power? How do we propose to sell our policy 
positions to the masses of our people? How do we propose to be a vanguard of 
our people in their protestes and demonstrations against government? How do we 
plan to proactively deal with bread and butter issues confronting our people? 
How do we plan to partner with the trade union movement in their daily 
struggles? How do we reconcile differing factions within the party?

These are some of the challenges I believe we must begin to speak to if we are 
really serious about rebuilding PAC.

I am inviting robust debate in this regard.

Izwe lethu!

Kwame
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2014 18:00:41 
To: Siyabulela Ndamane
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: MoAfrica wa Azania; tsatsawani 
chauke; d...@pac.org.za; 
bulanng...@gmail.com; Mofihli Likotsi; 
Keith Moyce; KHOISAN SONTI; Solly 
Hlubi; Lucas Mmola; 
m...@pac.org.za; ; kgothatso 
sithole; 
pasmapresid...@gmail.com; 
danielmamony...@gmail.com; SELLO IRVIN 
LESABANE; Dimakatso Moletsane; 
sindi mbele; nol...@nactu.org.za; 
Malinge Plaatjie; karabo 
mokgojwa; legalu...@sacwu.co.za; 
zun...@tut.ac.za; Cape; 
; 
clementmar...@yahoo.com; Excellent 
Rikhotso; nnyq...@gmail.com; 
gemoanako...@webmail.co.za; Mbulelo 
Raymond; Babalwa Malawu; Lucas 
Masemola; Maciej Radzio; Mapula 
Nkoana; 
joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; 
celenjabulo...@gmail.com; Sbusiso 
Xaba; Mangaliso Mdhlela; 
np...@mweb.co.za; Mohlomphegi Mphahlele; 
p...@vodamail.co.za; Dumisani 
Zwane; ; Lehlogonolo 
Digashu; Dr. Motsoko 
Pheko; Dumisani 
Mkhwente; headoff...@sacwu.org.za; 
; Mphiri Masoga; 
nyalu...@live.co.za; 
mose...@sacwu.co.za; zweli cele; 
Nkosinathi Mngoma; Albert 
Mokoena; Metja Ledwaba; 
ki...@pac.org.za; ; 
isa...@diplomatsa.co.za; ; 
Vusumuzi Silaule; 
frambo...@gmail.com; Tebogo Masipa; 
Narius Moloto; ; 
bc...@netactive.co.za; ; 
nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; Ndade 
Mxunya; Michael Muendane; 
; 
pasma.gaut...@gmail.com; ; 
le...@pac.org.za; nufbw...@wbs.co.za; 
Tebogo Sekele; Ali Maphalala; 
Billiard Seth; Smoll Zondo; Zola 
Nyamela; ms...@webmail.co.za; pac 
gauteng; ; jabu 
mkhwanazi<8302jabumkhwan...@gmail.com>; Malesela 
Mogashwa; MXOLISI MAISELA; 
sandla goqwana; Sbu Fire; 
mphahlel...@amcu.co.za; Tumediso 
Modise; 
fortune.speng...@gmail.com; 
richardma...@yahoo.com; 
mop...@pac.org.za; Lindo Thando; Tume 
Molomo; ; Edward 
Thobejane; 
miles.ndl...@yahoo.com; BONOLO 
TSHEGO; L Lekgwathi<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; Thabo 
cyril Zwane; Moshe Mahlomola; L.R. 
Mbinda; ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; 
Innocentia Mamaila; Pinkie 
Monyane; ; 
pac.nc...@gmail.com; ; Jabulani 
Mothopeng; Wandisile Gajana; Xola 
Tyamzashe; 
pacaza...@webmail.co.za; INNOCENT 
FRIDAY; 
takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; Sbongiseni 
Ayanda; phillip Dhlamini; 
; dud...@webmail.co.za; 
Madosky Obama; ; 
ic...@telkomsa.net; Obakeng 
Jacobs; 
brian.gam...@unioinlife.co.za; Fumanile 
Ben; Vusi .Mahlangu; sduduzo 
andiswa; Xola Tyamzashe; 
po...@yahoo.com; ifm10...@iscor.com; PAC 
TSHWANE; butheyane mary 
serunye; ; Admin @ 
Pac; tumelo tele; 
p...@npswu.org.co.za; 
hlatshwayonhlakanipho; 
patrick.khum...@ekurhuleni.gov.za; Lejoni 
John Kekana; 
generalsecret...@mwasa.org.za; 
gabula.j...@webmail.com; Alton 
Mphethi; hoteli...@iburst.co.za; 
ad...@fedcraw.org.za; Nhlanhla Fortune 
Xaba; mafub...@hotmail.com; david 
mabitsela; 
inqubelaphambili.tradeun...@gmail.com; 
Mohlomphegi Mphahlele; MOALOHANE SOLOMON 
NTSUSENG; eddie mfulwane; 
Johnson Mlambo; PAC Mogale city 
PAC; ndhlo...@pac.org.za; 
Phumzile Nomnga; Willy 
Fokane; ; 
esei...@fedcraw.org.za; 
nombule...@webmail.com; justice 
mvakali
Subject: [PAYCO] Re: blame game same as pretending to be normal is not helping

M'Afrika Siya

There are no neutral PAC members and PAC members not supporting the two
feuding, now three feuding NEC groupings can't be defined as neutral.

We have maintained that the an inclusive PAC conference composed of all PAC
Branches and members is crucial to resolve the prevailing political and
organisational parallysis.

The entire Butterworth elected

Re: [PAYCO] MPETHI PRESIDENTIAL DECREE AND THREE PAC NEC SPLITS

[Linda Ndebele]

This is what they call dejavu. PAC is stucked in a maze.

That clause 14.2 must be removed in the PAC constitution.

This adds to the disappointment one already has

Linda Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Tongogara Ndima 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 11:53:50 
To: justice mvakali; Admin @ Pac; 
Narius Moloto; d...@pac.org.za; 
bulanng...@gmail.com; ; 
Mohlomphegi Mphahlele; 
nakaphala.ba...@gmail.com; Mapula 
Nkoana; 
joseph.maqhek...@sasol.com; 
takalaniligeg...@gmail.com; 
richardma...@yahoo.com; L.R. 
Mbinda; Wandisile Gajana; L 
Lekgwathi<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; eddie mfulwane; 
Smoll Zondo; phillip Dhlamini; 
; Mbulelo Raymond; 
dud...@webmail.co.za; Billiard 
Seth; ; sindi 
mbele; p...@vodamail.co.za; sandla 
goqwana; Tumediso Modise; 
m...@pac.org.za; 
miles.ndl...@yahoo.com; 
ndhlo...@pac.org.za; ; 
; ; ; 
; Michael Muendane; 
sndam...@pac-cape.org.za; ; 
; Babalwa Malawu; 
payco@googlegroups.com; ; 
ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; Nkrumah Raymond 
Kgagudi; PAC Mogale city PAC; 
; pac gauteng; Ndade 
Mxunya; MOALOHANE SOLOMON NTSUSENG; 
Albert Mokoena; MoAfrica wa 
Azania; Malinge Plaatjie; 
; ; Lucas 
Masemola; ; 
; Alton Mphethi; david 
mabitsela; 
isa...@diplomatsa.co.za; Mohlomphegi 
Mphahlele; Cape; Mangaliso 
Mdhlela; Maciej Radzio; Johnson 
Mlambo; Xola Tyamzashe; 
Phumzile Nomnga; 
po...@yahoo.com; PAC TSHWANE; 
pacaza...@webmail.co.za; 
pasmapresid...@gmail.com; 
pac.nc...@gmail.com; 
patrick.khum...@ekurhuleni.gov.za; Sbusiso 
Xaba; Lehlogonolo Digashu; Dr. 
Motsoko Pheko; Tebogo 
Sekele; frambo...@gmail.com; Tebogo 
Masipa; Solly Hlubi; Keith 
Moyce; Lucas Mmola; Zola 
Nyamela; le...@pac.org.za; 
ki...@pac.org.za; 
celenjabulo...@gmail.com; 
bc...@netactive.co.za; 
nyalu...@live.co.za; nnyq...@gmail.com; 
nombule...@webmail.com; 
nol...@nactu.org.za; Pinkie 
Monyane; Moshe Mahlomola; 
ms...@webmail.co.za; mop...@pac.org.za; 
mafub...@hotmail.com; Mphiri Masoga; 
esei...@fedcraw.org.za; Edward 
Thobejane; ifm10...@iscor.com; 
Malesela Mogashwa; 
ic...@telkomsa.net; 
inqubelaphambili.tradeun...@gmail.com; 
p...@npswu.org.co.za; 
ad...@fedcraw.org.za; 
generalsecret...@mwasa.org.za; 
hoteli...@iburst.co.za; 
headoff...@sacwu.org.za; 
legalu...@sacwu.co.za; 
brian.gam...@unioinlife.co.za; 
nufbw...@wbs.co.za; np...@mweb.co.za; 
mose...@sacwu.co.za; 
mphahlel...@amcu.co.za; sduduzo 
andiswa; Sbongiseni Ayanda; Ali 
Maphalala; butheyane mary 
serunye; BONOLO TSHEGO; 
Thabo cyril Zwane; tsatsawani 
chauke; zweli cele; 
clementmar...@yahoo.com; Dumisani 
Mkhwente; 
danielmamony...@gmail.com; Dimakatso 
Moletsane; Excellent 
Rikhotso; Fumanile Ben; 
INNOCENT FRIDAY; Nhlanhla Fortune Xaba; 
Sbu Fire; Willy Fokane; 
fortune.speng...@gmail.com; 
gabula.j...@webmail.com; 
gemoanako...@webmail.co.za; 
hlatshwayonhlakanipho; Innocentia 
Mamaila; SELLO IRVIN LESABANE; jabu 
mkhwanazi<8302jabumkhwan...@gmail.com>; Jabulani 
Mothopeng; Lejoni John Kekana; 
Obakeng Jacobs; karabo 
mokgojwa; KHOISAN SONTI; kgothatso 
sithole; Lindo Thando; 
Metja Ledwaba; MXOLISI MAISELA; 
Nkosinathi Mngoma; Madosky 
Obama; 
pasma.gaut...@gmail.com; Tume 
Molomo; tumelo tele; Mofihli 
Likotsi; Vusi .Mahlangu; Vusumuzi 
Silaule; Xola Tyamzashe; 
zun...@tut.ac.za; Dumisani Zwane
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] MPETHI PRESIDENTIAL DECREE AND THREE PAC NEC SPLITS

Izwe lethu M'Afrika

We have learnt once more that Mpethi-Moloto NEC Group has split into two
fighting groupings to an extent PAC "President" Mpethi has evoked clause
14b Decree with effect from the 30th July 2014. But it seems that some
members siding with Moloto are opposing the Mpethi NEC Grouping and  if
true this week at High Court Moloto NEC grouping will be trying to render
the Mpethi evoking the Decree to be unconstitutional and illegal.

Going back to 2013, on the 11 May 2013 PAC Congress elected NEC at
Butterworth was split into two groupings:-

   -   One led by Cde Moloto supported by Cde Mpethi and other 12 NEC
   members which co-opted or appointed Mike Muendane, Don MAttera, Phillip
   Dhlamini and Joseph Maqhekeni into their NEC Group;
   - Another one which met on eth 18th May 2013 led byCde Mphahlele
   supported also by almost 14 NEC Members
   - There are three or two NEC members who distanced themselves from both
   two feuding NEC;
   - Parallel structures were formed and PAC members were turned against
   each and encouraged to counter-organise each other ever since 2013 May 11
   and 18 meetings;

While PAC Branches and Members raised the call for party unity, after the
May National and Provincial Elections Poor performance where PAC got just
an estimated 38 000 - 39 000 votes;

   - Its has been reported that Cde Moloto unilaterally removed Cde Mpethi
   as the sole Parliamentary representative and replace Cde Mpthei by his
   close ally Cde Bennet Joko; When we asked Members of the NEC none of the
   were 

[PAYCO] Fw: The plight of the people of Palestine

[Linda Ndebele]

Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Linda Ndebele 
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2014 07:34:17 
To: kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za; Nkrumah Raymond 
Kgagudi (nrkgag...@gmail.com)
Subject: The plight of the people of Palestine

Comrades,

Pleas assist to circulate this to media houses and social networks. We can't 
afford to continue being silent on such important events in history and 
geo-global politics.

Izwe lethu!

Linda K Ndebele
Mobile: 0720682881
Tel: 0343283423

My final prayer:
O my body, make of me always a man who questions!"
Franz Fanon



This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the 
individual(s) to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are 
solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of Newcastle 
Municipality. If you are not the intended recipient, be advised that you have 
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Media release on Palestine.docx
Description: Media release on Palestine.docx

[PAYCO] Re: LAND REFORM

[Linda Ndebele]

Joni,

I get your point, but we must learn to come to a realization that those who 
choose to accept party leadership consciously and unconsciously accept 
criticism that comes with it. We can't treat those in leadership as demi-gods 
whose actions cannot be challenged. Can tell you with certainty that such 
thinking is unscientific and does not follow pan africanist tradition. 
Leadership must always strive for excellence and as members of the movement we 
should dare not accept mediocre.

An impression should never be created that we just write criticism here and are 
not involved on party building processes on the ground. Rest assured son of the 
soil we are involve in recruiting members, building structures, propaganda 
work, representing the party on different platforms, campaigning for the party 
and financing party programmes (from transporting party members and supporters 
to events, purchasing flags, books and t-shirts to name but a few). These 
efforts become futile when the centre cannot hold and support them.

This notion of dismissing arguments by saying people must engage on grassroot 
issues is silly, who must concern himself with national issues? What if you 
embark on a radical and militant programme that can result to people being 
arrested, injured and killed? Who will intervene and protect you from vultures 
if the centre cannot hold and cannot support your initiatives? Some of us we 
don't theorize about these things, we have led land invasions and violent 
protests and know the consequences that come with it. To survive the wrath that 
come with such revolutionary initiatives requires a strong and militant 
National Leadership that will take ownership of the programme and its 
consequences not dismiss you as criminal elements.

In the letter and spirit of the letter written by cde Matome Mashao, its 
important that we all take the blame for the state in which the party finds 
itself including those who are in leadership. We must collectively craft a 
solution to rescue PAC out of this quagmire. As much as we appreciate the 
successes made under this leadership, we must not be blind to its failures in 
order to correct them in our march to take state power.

Izwe lethu!

Linda Kwame Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: lamzi...@gmail.com
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 17:23:05 
To: ; Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi; 
'Tongogara Ndima'
Reply-To: lamzi...@gmail.com
Cc: ; 'Admin @ Pac'; 'DSG @ 
PAC'; 'Narius Moloto'; 'Mzwandile 
Montjane'; 'LEBOGANG GODFREY 
NGWATLE'; 'Tshwane PAC 
Region'; 'Vusi Mahlangu'; 
'Siphiwe Nofuma'; 'Apa 
Pooe'; 'Michael Muendane'; 
'Gantsu'; ; 
; 'Ike Mafole'; 'Mohlomphegi 
Mphahlele'; 'Mbulelo Raymond'; 
; 'Sbusiso Xaba'; 'Sam 
Ditshego'; ; 'Nakaphala 
Bauba'; ; 'Pinkie 
Monyane'; 'Johnson Mlambo'; 
'Khosi Maqetuka'; ; 'justice 
mvakali'; ; 'Alton 
Mphethi'; 'david mabitsela'
Subject: Re: LAND REFORM

Aluta

Forcelami to keep on criticizing leadership won't help while ourselves on the 
ground we don't do anything,  EFF had its own programs that lead them to what 
they have and we can't as an organization keep blaming everyone whose leading 
PAC.

We need programs that will seek to address this system which can seriously be 
engaged in a planned and systematic way for the speedy reduction and eventual 
elimination of mass poverty, unemployment, exploitation of workers, women and 
child abuse, commodified education, Land, corruption, injustice and rural 
neglect. 

This are kind of programs we need embark into and stop this petty politic an 
cheap political scores. I'm a student at TUT we struggle a lot to find help 
from PAC due to this petty programs, we get we get expelled and victimized 
yearly.  We need protection but how would we get it if the party is divided 
like this Ma joni this should stop I'm glad I'm saying this to senior cadres of 
the Movement. If PASMA tried to win election on campus level with Zero budget 
what make PAC fail? Is because of power conflict. 

Ma joni kaSobukwe is time for us to be reunited and push the vision of 
Mangaliso Sobukwe and we need equally to revise da party discipline and 
maintain it in a highest order.

Kindly regards 
PASMA ground Soldier   

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-Original Message-
From: "Linda Ndebele" 
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 10:37:02 
To: Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi; 'Dumisani 
Mkhwente'; 'Tongogara Ndima'
Reply-To: kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za
Cc: ; 'Admin @ Pac'; 'DSG @ 
PAC'; 'Narius Moloto'; 'Mzwandile 
Montjane'; 'LEBOGANG GODFREY 
NGWATLE'; 'Tshwane PAC 
Region'; 'V

[PAYCO] Re: LAND REFORM

[Linda Ndebele]

Comrades in arms,

As much as I share sentiments advanced against the approach of cde Ndima in 
relation to the document submitted here by cde Siya Ndamane for our indulgence 
and response, but I am not impressed by the dismissive attitude to the 
pertinent issues he raises. I am one person who does not like a person who 
debates out of context, but the question that comes to mind is, is really cde 
Ndima out of context?

I firmly believe that if the centre cannot hold indeed things will fall apart. 
The experience of EFF has confirmed my long held view that with a coherent, 
focused, militant and hands-on National Leadership we can turn things around 
and inspire action from both our members and the masses of our people. EFF in 
KZN has no structures but it was able to ganner votes and support from the 
masses of our people based on the strong presence of its National Leadership. 
For us to successfully sell and win the hearts of our people we need a 
leadership that will inspire action and an action oriented Programme of Action.

I believe we need a multi-proned strategy to deal with PAC challenges but 
primarily to that should be to get the centre right. 

I am currently working on the response on the proposals as per submitted by cde 
Siya and believe all of us must make our submissions in this regard but at the 
same time focus on the primary objective to get the centre right. We need a 
militant and vocal leadership that will articulate the positions we would 
formulate in response to these proposals. It would be futile to produce the 
most crafted revolutionary policy position and have no leaders to articulate 
them.

I agree though with all comrades that in our pursuit to get the centre right we 
should not be factional and destructive. We need everybody on the deck to build 
a militant PAC ready to usurp state power.

Your robust engagement in this regard would be welcomed.

Izwe lethu!

Linda Kwame Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi" 
Date: Wed, 2 Jul 2014 09:48:28 
To: 'Dumisani Mkhwente'; 'Tongogara 
Ndima'
Cc: ; 'Admin @ Pac'; 'DSG @ 
PAC'; 'Narius Moloto'; 'Mzwandile 
Montjane'; 'LEBOGANG GODFREY 
NGWATLE'; ; 'Tshwane PAC 
Region'; 'Vusi Mahlangu'; 
'Siphiwe Nofuma'; 'Apa 
Pooe'; 'Michael Muendane'; 
'Gantsu'; ; 
; 'Ike Mafole'; 'Mohlomphegi 
Mphahlele'; 'Mbulelo Raymond'; 
; 'Sbusiso Xaba'; 'Sam 
Ditshego'; ; 'Nakaphala 
Bauba'; ; 'Pinkie 
Monyane'; 'Johnson Mlambo'; 
'Khosi Maqetuka'; ; 'justice 
mvakali'; ; 'Alton 
Mphethi'; 'david mabitsela'; 
; ; ; 
'Mohlomphegi Mphahlele'; 'Mapula 
Nkoana'; 'Mangaliso 
Mdhlela'; 'L.R. Mbinda'; 'L 
Lekgwathi'<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; 'wandisile gajana'; 
'eddie mfulwane'; 'Smoll Zondo'; 
'phillip Dhlamini'; ; 
'Billiard Seth'; 'Maciej Radzio'; 
'Xola Tyamzashe'; 'Tumediso 
Modise'; ; 'Phumzile 
Nomnga'; ; 
; ; 
; ; 
; 'Lehlogonolo 
Digashu'; 'Dr. Motsoko 
Pheko'; 'Tebogo 
Sekele'; ; 'sandla 
goqwana'; 'Tebogo Masipa'; 'Solly 
Hlubi'; 'sindi mbele'; 'Keith 
Moyce'; 'Lucas Mmola'; 'Zola 
Nyamela'; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 'Moshe 
Mahlomola'; ; 
; ; 'Mphiri 
Masoga'; 'Ndade Mxunya'; 'Malinge 
Plaatjie'; 'Albert 
Mokoena'; ; 'Edward 
Thobejane'; ; 'Malesela 
Mogashwa'; ; 
; ; 
; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; ; 
; ; 'sduduzo 
andiswa'; 'Sbongiseni Ayanda'; 'Ali 
Maphalala'; 'butheyane mary 
serunye'; 'BONOLO TSHEGO'; 
'Thabo cyril Zwane'; 'tsatsawani 
chauke'; 'zweli cele'; 
; ; 'Dimakatso 
Moletsane'; 'Excellent 
Rikhotso'; 'Fumanile 
Ben'; 'INNOCENT FRIDAY'; 'Nhlanhla 
Fortune Xaba'; 'Sbu Fire'; 'Willy 
Fokane'; ; 
; ; 
'hlatshwayonhlakanipho'; 'Innocentia 
Mamaila'; 'SELLO IRVIN LESABANE'; 
'jabu mkhwanazi'<8302jabumkhwan...@gmail.com>; 'Jabulani 
Mothopeng'; 'Lejoni John Kekana'; 
'Obakeng Jacobs'; 'karabo 
mokgojwa'; 'KHOISAN SONTI'; 
'kgothatso sithole'; 'Lindo 
Thando'; 'Metja Ledwaba'; 'MXOLISI 
MAISELA'; 'Nkosinathi 
Mngoma'; 'Madosky Obama'; 
; 'Tume Molomo'; 'tumelo 
tele'; 'Mofihli Likotsi'; 'Vusumuzi 
Silaule'; 'Xola Tyamzashe'; 
; ; 'Dumisani 
Zwane'; ; 'Horatio 
Motjuwadi'; 'Jaki Seroke'; 
; 'Mpumelelo Rulumente'; 'PASMA 
Gauteng'; 'Advocate K Sizani'; 
'Zamikhaya Gxabe'; 'Jabu Makhanya'; 
'Narius Moloto'; 'Kutie 
Thondlana'; ; 'Zukisa 
Mxesibe'; ; 
; ; 'Azi 
Mnandi'; 'Luyanda Gwina'; 'Joseph 
Thloloe'; 'Jerry Vakasha'; 'Ray 
Johnson'; 'Julian 
Mohlala'; 'Kindo Makhanda'; 
'Khethamabala Sithole'; 'Baliwinile 
Kwankwa'; 'KK Kekana'; 'Kgomotso 
Matsebe'; 'Lesomepedi 
Boshego'; ; 'Lifu 
Nhlapo'; 'APLAMVA LIMPOMPO'; 
'APLAMVA Eastern Cape'; 'APLAMVA FREE 
STATE'; 'APLAMVA MPUMALANGA'; 
'APLAMVA NORTHWEST'; 'APLAMVA WESTERN 
CAPE'; 
Subject: RE: LAND REFORM

Izwe lethu M'Afrika 

While one does not negate the essence advanced by Cde Ndima, we must note that 
the attempt by Cde Ndamane requires attention and once more it brings to many 
of us the basic reason that PAC as a political party in politics, to create 
public opinion and presence in bourgeoisie democracy and bod

Re: [PAYCO] Muendane

[Linda Ndebele]

I agree wholeheartedly, we should never be apologetic or try to be moderate 
where the land question is concerned. The very basis of our struggle for 
liberation was on reclaiming our land at any cost. We can't betray the mandate 
given to us by our ancestors and posterity just to sound reasonable and 
broad-minded.

Our cry remains Izwe Lethu!

Kwame
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "jabumakha...@yahoo.com" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2014 18:17:14 
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Muendane

I disagree with Mike   Muendane's sentiments on Zimbabwean land issue. There is 
nothing wrong on the Zanu-Pf 's handling of land programme in that country. I 
would like to advise him to revisit the  1980 Lancaster House agreement which 
authorized indigeneous Zimbabweans to reposses their land after 20 years also 
compelling the British government to compensate white settlers. After 20 years, 
the former British prime minister, Tony  Blair refused to recognize the 
Lancaster House agreement and thereafter his Western allies plotted with him to 
 unilaterally stage economic sabotage through sanctions against Zimbabwe. 
People must  condemn unlawful sanctions wich were aimed at staging coup d' etat 
against Zanu-Pf.   My opinion is that the Lancaster House deal  was also a 
liberal approach because it gave settlers more time to plot against indigeneous 
Zimbabweans. 

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Re: [PAYCO] Pseudo PAYCO National Conference seats Saturday 21 September 2013.

[linda ndebele]

Cde Ndima,

One of the things I detest most is factionalism and creation of parallel 
structures. To avoid creation of parallel structures despite the fact the 
Newcastle PAYCO Congress was not properly constituted and having resolved as 
NEC that we were adjourning Conference, when comrades rejected such such a 
decision and resolved to elect a new leadership we resolved not to challenge 
such a decision as we could have not allow PAYCO to be divided at our watch.

For the sake of unity, progress and harmony in the functioning of PAYCO and PAC 
we surrendered power gracefully. Those who know how resilient we are for what 
we believe in were amazed how we gave in that easily. We did it for the sake of 
the party. We had to take ownership of the organisational and admistrative 
failours that led to the collapse of the Newcastle Congress.

I wish we can take your advise and convene such a meeting but the challenge is 
that the motherbody itself is behind these shenanigans. Culture of Personality 
Cult has found root in the PAC and in its component structures particularly the 
youth section.  
Linda Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Tongogara Ndima 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 10:16:03 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Pseudo PAYCO National Conference seats Saturday 21
 September 2013.

COmrade Mandyoli, PAC Youths must stop acting like idiots, Letlapa and
Narius are using these youths against each other. Smoll Zondo group is on
the side of Moloto while Pitso is on the side of Letlapa. It also seems
like some of these young leaders like Zondo and Pitso they are also
enjoying this fighting game and they call a revolution. It is a pity, after
two years they would have done fokol for PAC and the youth of this country!
The only solution is PAC Youths must convene under one roof and resolve
their differences and unite, comrade like Mashao, Mbara and Linda as former
PAYCO leaders should take the responsibility to unite and give political
direction to these lost souls

Zwe lethu
Ndima


On Wed, Sep 18, 2013 at 3:28 PM, Sinethemba Mandyoli <
sinethemba.mandy...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Just for interest sake how many branches, regions, and provinces are going
> to this congress? Where and when was the communique distributed to branches?
>
> ** **
>
> Lastly which options have you visited in ensuring that this parallel
> structure is being intercepted before it’s formed? A court interdict would
> be the solution (if you were Letlapa) for now but we need to engage as
> youth without the influence of the elders. If the GaMatlala constitution is
> reinstated there should have been a provision that when it was thrown to
> the dustbin by Mphahlele anything he did between Fort hare and Butterworth
> was null and void. The reinstatement of the constitution would have come
> with conditions, and seemingly we were too quick to rejoice about the
> return of the constitution not knowing that this guy never got back the
> members he chased away from our beloved movement.   
>
> ** **
>
> It is so interesting that the elders are the ones that perpetuate the
> parallel structures. I am not interested in the merits and demerits of the
> factions involved but on bringing the solution. I want us to convince each
> other and decide whether the meeting in Limpopo is constitutional as per
> the constitution of PAYCO which we never abandoned like the PACYL did after
> Fort Hare congress. 
>
> ** **
>
> If what happened in Durban was not constitutional as per the claims of
> Wandi and others, I think only provinces that were there can raise that. I
> was personally not in Durban but my branch and provinces were there and we
> had to swallow a bitter pill for the benefit of taking the party forward.
> The decisions taken in Durban are binding to me until the next properly
> constituted congress or conference of PAYCO. The office of the organizer
> (Wandi Montjane) was instrumental in the formation of parallel structures
> within APLAMVA, I had warned many that the next stop was to be PAYCO (that
> is happening now), tomorrow it will be PASMA. The same people that force an
> unconstitutional PAYCO conference used to say PAYCO is ROYCO and today it
> is a fashion for them to be called PAYCO Coordinators.
>
>  
>
> ** **
>
> I ask myself what is there to gain in all this confusion for elderly
> people like Mr. Montjane and others. What can we do to eliminate this
> cancer of factionalism and parallel structures? 
>
> ** **
>
> --
> --
> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com
>
> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
> You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco
>
> Visit our 

Re: [PAYCO] LAND DISCUSSION SABC 2

[linda ndebele]

I meant NUM
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "linda ndebele" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 07:52:48 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] LAND DISCUSSION SABC 2

Greetings, 

Indeed cde Ndima Nactu has to explain this. I was shocked to hear that BCAWU 
had entered into an agreement. This will have devastating effects, why BCAWU 
will rush to agreement before NUMSA which is known to be compromised due to its 
relations with the employers and government.

This notion of avoiding strikes is liberal and compromises workers.

Let's get an explanation, we are raising these questions running a risk of 
being labelled all kinds of names and being told that BCAWU or NACTU has no 
obligation to respond to us as we don't form part of its structures.

If NACTU is to play any meaningful role in the struggle of the working class it 
should shed yellow unions characteristics and adapt a militant approach.

Izwe lethu!

Linda Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Tongogara Ndima 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 09:35:59 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: ; Sbusiso Xaba; Albert 
Mokoena; L Lekgwathi<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; 
Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi; ; 
g...@bcawu.co.za; Jabu Makhanya; 
Thulani Khumalo; ; Tumediso 
Modise; 
aplamvanatio...@gmail.com; Horatio 
Motjuwadi; Jaki Seroke; 
g...@nactu.org.za; PASMA Gauteng; 
Advocate K Sizani; Zamikhaya Gxabe; 
twa...@pac.org.za; Zukisa Mxesibe; 
ptob...@yahoo.com; 
anwar.ad...@capetown.gov.za; 
ckoms...@yahoo.com; Azi Mnandi; Luyanda 
Gwina; Johnson Mlambo; Malinge 
Plaatjie; Joseph Thloloe; Jerry 
Vakasha; Ray Johnson; 
Julian Mohlala; Kindo 
Makhanda; Khethamabala 
Sithole; Baliwinile Kwankwa; 
KK Kekana; Kgomotso Matsebe; 
brian.gam...@doves.co.za; Kutie 
Thondlana; 
dumisani...@gmail.com; 
ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; Vusi8 .; 
Lesomepedi Boshego; 
ju-...@webmail.co.za; 
lifu.nhl...@gmail.com; 
rakwe...@yahoo.com; 
apap...@webmail.co.za; 
a...@joburg.org.za; 
angwa...@webmail.co.za; 
pmatheb...@webmail.co.za; Pule 
Maqekoane; Letlapa Mphahlele; Mphiri 
Masoga; ntonith...@gmail.com; 
mpumele...@gmail.com; Malesela 
Mogashwa; 
ndimatongog...@gmail.com; 
hoteli...@iburst.co.za
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] LAND DISCUSSION SABC 2

Izwe lethu M'Afrika



Comrade Masoga and BCAWU comrades please clarify this statement, some of us
are worried because it seems NACTU and its affiliates have become yellow
trade union not fighting exploitation of workers.

The National Union of Mineworkers (NUM) has yet again scored a major
victory in the construction sector, persuading employers through a three
week long hard-hitting strike action to accede to further increases. The
construction companies had earlier entered into a wage agreement with the
Building, Construction and Allied Workers Union (BCAWU) for an increase of
between 8 and 10% which the NUM rejected. The construction companies as
represented by the South African Federation of Civil Engineering
Contractors (SAFCEC) yesterday acceded to the NUM ‘s demands and granted
the workers increments of up to 12%, ending the three week long strike
action that halted major power built programmes. “This is a major victory
for us. Our members stood firm and we congratulate them for the firmness”
says Isaac Ntshangase, the NUM ‘s Construction Sector Coordinator. “Workers
were able to see who is fooling whom and joined the NUM massively from
BCAWU” he says.

And can you also explain if NACTU and all its affiliates will support and
campaign workers to vote PAC next year elections!



Izwe

Ndima



On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Mphiri Masoga  wrote:

>
> Check Dedoorens land issue discussion.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Mphiri Masoga
> SACWU
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Mphiri Masoga" 
> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 19:40:06
> To: ; Sbusiso Xaba; Albert Mokoena<
> mokoen...@workmail.co.za>; <0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; Nkrumah Raymond
> Kgagudi; ; g...@bcawu.co.za<
> g...@bcawu.co.za>; Jabu Makhanya; Thulani Khumalo<
> tkhumal...@yahoo.com>; payco@googlegroups.com; <
> pactshw...@googlegroup.co.>
> Reply-To: mphi...@gmail.com
> Subject: Fw: REGISTER at our nearest IEC...
>
>
> REGISTER at our nearest IEC offices! It is your right to vote
> #2014Elections! Please register and vote PAC! SMS YES for PAC to contact or
> visit you in your area.
>
> Can we attempt and Register with all networks to fund raise for 2014
> elections.
>
> Those with good IT skills can you come on board and assist?
>
> I have learned from Vhararists who send it to my wife.
>
> We can also send sms'es to all NACTU Affiliates, Friends, Neighbours & all
> we know.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Mphiri Mas

Re: [PAYCO] LAND DISCUSSION SABC 2

[linda ndebele]

Greetings, 

Indeed cde Ndima Nactu has to explain this. I was shocked to hear that BCAWU 
had entered into an agreement. This will have devastating effects, why BCAWU 
will rush to agreement before NUMSA which is known to be compromised due to its 
relations with the employers and government.

This notion of avoiding strikes is liberal and compromises workers.

Let's get an explanation, we are raising these questions running a risk of 
being labelled all kinds of names and being told that BCAWU or NACTU has no 
obligation to respond to us as we don't form part of its structures.

If NACTU is to play any meaningful role in the struggle of the working class it 
should shed yellow unions characteristics and adapt a militant approach.

Izwe lethu!

Linda Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Tongogara Ndima 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2013 09:35:59 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Cc: ; Sbusiso Xaba; Albert 
Mokoena; L Lekgwathi<0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; 
Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi; ; 
g...@bcawu.co.za; Jabu Makhanya; 
Thulani Khumalo; ; Tumediso 
Modise; 
aplamvanatio...@gmail.com; Horatio 
Motjuwadi; Jaki Seroke; 
g...@nactu.org.za; PASMA Gauteng; 
Advocate K Sizani; Zamikhaya Gxabe; 
twa...@pac.org.za; Zukisa Mxesibe; 
ptob...@yahoo.com; 
anwar.ad...@capetown.gov.za; 
ckoms...@yahoo.com; Azi Mnandi; Luyanda 
Gwina; Johnson Mlambo; Malinge 
Plaatjie; Joseph Thloloe; Jerry 
Vakasha; Ray Johnson; 
Julian Mohlala; Kindo 
Makhanda; Khethamabala 
Sithole; Baliwinile Kwankwa; 
KK Kekana; Kgomotso Matsebe; 
brian.gam...@doves.co.za; Kutie 
Thondlana; 
dumisani...@gmail.com; 
ntsiemohl...@gmail.com; Vusi8 .; 
Lesomepedi Boshego; 
ju-...@webmail.co.za; 
lifu.nhl...@gmail.com; 
rakwe...@yahoo.com; 
apap...@webmail.co.za; 
a...@joburg.org.za; 
angwa...@webmail.co.za; 
pmatheb...@webmail.co.za; Pule 
Maqekoane; Letlapa Mphahlele; Mphiri 
Masoga; ntonith...@gmail.com; 
mpumele...@gmail.com; Malesela 
Mogashwa; 
ndimatongog...@gmail.com; 
hoteli...@iburst.co.za
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] LAND DISCUSSION SABC 2

Izwe lethu M'Afrika



Comrade Masoga and BCAWU comrades please clarify this statement, some of us
are worried because it seems NACTU and its affiliates have become yellow
trade union not fighting exploitation of workers.

The National Union of Mineworkers (NUM) has yet again scored a major
victory in the construction sector, persuading employers through a three
week long hard-hitting strike action to accede to further increases. The
construction companies had earlier entered into a wage agreement with the
Building, Construction and Allied Workers Union (BCAWU) for an increase of
between 8 and 10% which the NUM rejected. The construction companies as
represented by the South African Federation of Civil Engineering
Contractors (SAFCEC) yesterday acceded to the NUM ‘s demands and granted
the workers increments of up to 12%, ending the three week long strike
action that halted major power built programmes. “This is a major victory
for us. Our members stood firm and we congratulate them for the firmness”
says Isaac Ntshangase, the NUM ‘s Construction Sector Coordinator. “Workers
were able to see who is fooling whom and joined the NUM massively from
BCAWU” he says.

And can you also explain if NACTU and all its affiliates will support and
campaign workers to vote PAC next year elections!



Izwe

Ndima



On Thu, Sep 19, 2013 at 9:50 PM, Mphiri Masoga  wrote:

>
> Check Dedoorens land issue discussion.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Mphiri Masoga
> SACWU
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Mphiri Masoga" 
> Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 19:40:06
> To: ; Sbusiso Xaba; Albert Mokoena<
> mokoen...@workmail.co.za>; <0825164...@vodamail.co.za>; Nkrumah Raymond
> Kgagudi; ; g...@bcawu.co.za<
> g...@bcawu.co.za>; Jabu Makhanya; Thulani Khumalo<
> tkhumal...@yahoo.com>; payco@googlegroups.com; <
> pactshw...@googlegroup.co.>
> Reply-To: mphi...@gmail.com
> Subject: Fw: REGISTER at our nearest IEC...
>
>
> REGISTER at our nearest IEC offices! It is your right to vote
> #2014Elections! Please register and vote PAC! SMS YES for PAC to contact or
> visit you in your area.
>
> Can we attempt and Register with all networks to fund raise for 2014
> elections.
>
> Those with good IT skills can you come on board and assist?
>
> I have learned from Vhararists who send it to my wife.
>
> We can also send sms'es to all NACTU Affiliates, Friends, Neighbours & all
> we know.
>
> Kind Regards
>
> Mphiri Masoga
> SACWU
>
> --
> --
> Sending your posting to payco@googlegroups.com
>
> Unsubscribe by sending an email to payco-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>
> You can also visit http://groups.google.com/group/payco
>
> Visit our website at www.mayihlome.wordp

Re: [PAYCO] Role of youth in policy development

[linda ndebele]

Cde Matome,

Thanks for the response. I stand for militant approach and believe strongly 
that movements on the Left can never cease power from the ANC through the 
current status quo and moderate approach. I stand for the latter, overthrowal 
of the current system.

I agree with you that the reference point has to be totally different from that 
of 1959 noting that the material conditions have changed as well. We have tried 
unsuccessfully to argue this point in all PAC fora's(following our resolve that 
we shall attend and engage everywhere where PAC name is discussed) that we need 
to craft and adopt a new National Programme of Action that will define our 
vision and strategic direction going forward. We even went far by crafting IOTA 
programme of action and tried on many occasions to push the PAC to adopt it as 
its programme of action only to be opposed by those at somepoint we identified 
as progressive forces in the movement.

I therefore believe we still have to define the revolutionary framework that 
will mold and inform our policy positions going forward.

It would be rubbishing PAC and its legacy to push the former which seeks to 
improve the current system, we aren't reformist.

I believe as the youth we can play a pivotal role in ensuring that PAC adopts a 
revolutionary path that seeks to overthrow the current and in ensuring that 
policy development follows this path.

I understand revolutionary change to mean upsetting the current system, 
dismantling its pillars and replacing it with a new radical system that will 
bring true salvation for our people. That's what I stand for and the policy 
development I talk about revolves around this point of view.

I pause.

Izwe Lethu!

Linda Ndebele



Yours a socialist revolution
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Matome Mashao" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2013 08:11:15 
To: payco@googlegroups.com; Mduduzi 
Sibeko
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Role of youth in policy development

Comrade Linda, your invite-call is noted. 

I fully hear you on the need to maintain strong policy positions. The question
is always what the point of reference is. In the case of the 1959 generation
their point of reference was confrontation with the system and Pan Africanism
in general.

Our point of reference now can either be the prevailing system or the
overthrow of the system altogether. The former would seek to introduce policy
positions that will improve the system and that enhance the current system to
be somewhat responsive, while the latter would be the eradication of the
current system with policies concomitant with this frame of mind.

If what you are inviting us to do relates to the former, I am unavailable for
such a task for I can do it better as a civil servant if I decide to join Govt
work. However if you depart from the latter I take the challenge and applaud
you. The dilemma is always that the PAC for many years now has been on a
vacillation path, and actually the greatest disabler of Sobukwe 's dream. The
right thing, surely not the only, is for the PAC to adopt a framework of
overthrow and then everybody amongst us can get down to policy development
informed thereby. 

I am personally not available for any PAC activity that seeks to strengthen
the system, either overt or convert. If this is the path I decided to find
other things to do than engage in pleasantries of membership and sloganeering.
If we decide we are on an overthrow path, like the masses are doing on their
own, I am game any day and I will risk my all !

So I take your challenge with the caveat above.

Viva PAC

Matome Mashao
 









On Wed, 18 Sep 2013 16:39:16 + Mduduzi Sibeko 
wrote

> Cde Ndebele
> 
> Your writing is enlivening our Africanist spirit.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> linda ndebele Sent: 18 September 2013 08:58 AM
> To: payco@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [PAYCO] Role of youth in policy development
> 
> Cde Jaki, Sibeko, Nkrumah, Mashao, Xaba and Mmbara
> 
> I have been visiting PAC 1959 Manifesto which is a framework from which all
> PAC policy positions are drawn. I have been marveling on the precise
analysis
> of the material conditions by PAC intellectual pioneers then. What crossed
my
> mind is that these guys were at our age when they developed that
> revolutionary document. 
>
> I have looked through certain policy documents of the party in areas like
> economy, land and education and hold a view that the socialist outlook of
the
> PAC is lacking or not properly and practically articulated. 
>
> I also remember the days where PAC had a Research Unit led by cde Mlomo and
> Jaki Seroke. PAC by then could present coherent positions on different
> issues. 
>
> The

[PAYCO] Role of youth in policy development

[linda ndebele]

Cde Jaki, Sibeko, Nkrumah, Mashao, Xaba and Mmbara

I have been visiting PAC 1959 Manifesto which is a framework from which all PAC 
policy positions are drawn. I have been marveling on the precise analysis of 
the material conditions by PAC intellectual pioneers then. What crossed my mind 
is that these guys were at our age when they developed that revolutionary 
document.

I have looked through certain policy documents of the party in areas like 
economy, land and education and hold a view that the socialist outlook of the 
PAC is lacking or not properly and practically articulated.

I also remember the days where PAC had a Research Unit led by cde Mlomo and 
Jaki Seroke. PAC by then could present coherent positions on different issues.

The issue here is that from the generation of PAC founding fathers to the 
generation of Jaki there has been some level of youth participation in policy 
development hence PAC projected a militant outlook in the political arena of 
Azania.

I am afraid our generation seems to be stucked on factional issues and little 
on policy development in the party. The most revolutionary document ever to be 
produced by PAC youth was PAYCO IOTA Programme of Action under the leadership 
of cde Matome Mashao as President and Sbu Xaba as Secretary General. I hold a 
view that as PAC youth we have been extremely lazy in policy research, policy 
studies and developing critical writing in respect to policy issues.

I also hold a view that PAC has not developed processes to involve youth in 
policy development therefore there's no continuity and proper initiation of 
future policy makers to the art of policy making. This has detrimental effects 
in the PAC quest to cease state power.

Cde Jaki, how can we change this and how can we play a role in the Research 
Unit of the PAC?

Hope this will spark the necessary discussion on the role of youth in policy 
development in the PAC.

Linda Ndebele
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Re: [PAYCO]

[linda ndebele]

Revolutionary greetings,

Cde Sibeko I think the response given by cde Nkrumah is in line with my 
understanding. I read an account of events by Raboroko myself if I'm not 
mistaken on Ntante Ntlodibe's book "Here's the tree". I envy your child for 
having such an important name.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Mduduzi Sibeko 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Sun, 15 Sep 2013 15:10:50 
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] 


Cdes Nkrumah, Ndebele,Seroke and all africanists

My two year old boy's name is Azania. Everywhere I go, people ask, why name a 
child  Azania. My wife has become indignant, chiefly because she can't give a 
coherent explanation and a meaning. I am unfazed and believe I chose a name 
which all loyal Africanists would like to name their children with. Do you have 
a historical account on how and when the PAC adopted the name, and how did this 
influence the black consciousness movements in the late 60's and early 70's  to 
adopt it. I saw some video clips of the seventies people chanting the slogan 
'one Azania, one nation"



kind regards
Mduduzi Sibeko
Distribution Customer Service Coordinator

[cid:image001.png@01CEB235.4C79E1F0]
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<>

Re: [PAYCO] Thami on the Freedom Charter SA FM now

[linda ndebele]

Just hate opportunist like him. That man does not want to work. He should find 
a job for change and stop living by chances.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Hulisani Mmbara " 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 2013 09:21:19 
To: PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Thami on the Freedom Charter SA FM now

Pathetic 
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Re: [PAYCO]

[linda ndebele]

Never felt that embarrassed in my entire life. Even a mere member who joined 
PAC last year could represent much better than that. The fact that he's 
president, the face of the party, kills me bigtime.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Xola" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:54:29 
To: PAYCO
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO]

Ashraf even refused to read sms's forwarded to the show by people because, he 
said: "all of them said the same thing." Unzima lomthwalo... 

With friends like the 'PAC president' surely the PAC needs no enemies... 
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: lphany...@gmail.com
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:47:45 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO]

@ linda hahahahaha

Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-Original Message-
From: "linda ndebele" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2013 12:42:19 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] 

Revolutionary greetings!

Yesterday I was forced for the first time in my life to switch off SAFM during 
an interview where PAC was discussed. It was an interview of the PAC President 
Letlapa Mphahlele on Ashraf Garda's show.

It was out of embarrassment and sheer disgust on the conduct of the President. 
He could not represent the shining intellectual legacy of the PAC and its 
founding members. He struggled to tell the presenter how it feels to be PAC 
President. He went on to present himself as a poor man who lives in a poor flat 
in Hilbrow, traveling on a bus to parliament and keeping the same friends he 
had before going to parliament. No sound person will be inspired by such a 
leader.

He could not tell Ashraf what his ordinary day as PAC President except pleading 
poverty. Never been that embarrassed in front of my colleagues and friends.

Indeed with such leaders we are an embarrassment to the glorious history of our 
founding fathers and surely PAC need no enemies.

What annoyed me most is when he said sometimes he even forgets that he's PAC 
President. 

Just tell me how this man can inspire the nation when cannot inspire a die-hard 
PAC member?

I was indeed devastated and can't hold my anger and disgust.

Kwame Ndebele
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[PAYCO]

[linda ndebele]

Revolutionary greetings!

Yesterday I was forced for the first time in my life to switch off SAFM during 
an interview where PAC was discussed. It was an interview of the PAC President 
Letlapa Mphahlele on Ashraf Garda's show.

It was out of embarrassment and sheer disgust on the conduct of the President. 
He could not represent the shining intellectual legacy of the PAC and its 
founding members. He struggled to tell the presenter how it feels to be PAC 
President. He went on to present himself as a poor man who lives in a poor flat 
in Hilbrow, traveling on a bus to parliament and keeping the same friends he 
had before going to parliament. No sound person will be inspired by such a 
leader.

He could not tell Ashraf what his ordinary day as PAC President except pleading 
poverty. Never been that embarrassed in front of my colleagues and friends.

Indeed with such leaders we are an embarrassment to the glorious history of our 
founding fathers and surely PAC need no enemies.

What annoyed me most is when he said sometimes he even forgets that he's PAC 
President. 

Just tell me how this man can inspire the nation when cannot inspire a die-hard 
PAC member?

I was indeed devastated and can't hold my anger and disgust.

Kwame Ndebele
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[PAYCO] Employment opportunities: Sales Agents

[Linda Ndebele]

Greetings,

A friend urgently need sales representatives based in Durban and
Pietermaritzburg. They should have their own car. The basic salary excluding
commission is between R7 500 - R9 500.

Please furnish me your details @0720682881 to connect you with the person.

Thanks

Linda Ndebele 


South Africas premier free email service - www.webmail.co.za 

For super low premiums, click here.
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Re: [PAYCO] Hostile attitude towards socialism/communism is enchored on sheer ignorance!

[linda ndebele]

Cde Vusi & Phanyeko,

The vicious attacks directed to those of us who are marxist-leninist places a 
challenge on us to educate party members on socialism/ communism. Exchanging 
insults with them will not help our cause rather we should engage them, expose 
their ignorance and assist them by imparting necessary knowledge and exchanging 
marxist-leninist material with them.

The attack on PAC members who believe in communism/ scientific socialism is 
unfounded. These attacks found root because those of us who are socialist/ 
communist did not challenge these misconceptions collectively precisely because 
we are fragmented. We have an obligation to protect the heart and soul of our 
movement from petty capitalist. 

We should intervene and assist unsuspecting members who have been made to 
believe that Pan Africanism is anti-communism/ scientific socialism. We should 
distribute books, articles and quotes by marxist leninist. We should lead 
debates in the party and establish book and debating clubs. That's what 
Africanist did in the ANC to counter liberal tendencies in the 50's.

PAC and PASMA constitutions are unequivocal that they identify with scientific 
socialism. Those who believe in free market system and other liberal ideologies 
must find home elsewhere not in PAC, PAYCO and PASMA.

Yours for a classless society.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: lphany...@gmail.com
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 22:13:38 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Hostile attitude towards socialism/communism is enchored
 on sheer ignorance!

I'm touched by this Post especially from Cde Linda, I think its high time in 
the next coming conference of payco to rubber stamp our position and having a 
solid way forward...

Yours for a socialist state Azania
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-Original Message-
From: "linda ndebele" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2013 13:47:20 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Hostile attitude towards socialism/communism is enchored on
 sheer ignorance!

Revolutionary greetings!

When we took over office in PAYCO we resolved to revitalise the socialist 
aspects of the PAC that had been tarnished completely. A mere mention of 
socialism or marxist leninism invited an avalanche of hostile attack from PAC 
members. Those who purported to be socialist were described as communist, 
anti-pan africanism and other such labels. PAC leadership also did not project 
PAC as a socialist party which allowed the SACP to dominate and monopolize the 
Left.

We have had an opportunity to engage with highly placed and respected party 
leaders who proudly proclaim to be anti-socialism and defend free market 
system. This if tolerated will make PAC not different from the ANC.

PAC founding fathers defined PAC as a socialist party and entrenched it in its 
founding documents and aims and objectives. PAC cannot claim to be a broad 
church as its founding fathers chose the class they pursue its interest.

The real point is that my analysis of those Africanist who are opposed to 
socialism or marxist leninism, the majority of them have no idea as to what 
animal is it. A majority base their arguments on hearsays without reading a 
single book by Marx, Angels, Lenin, Trosky, Nkrumah, Chairman Mao to name but a 
few.

My question to Africanist is , are we really educated on Communism/ socialism? 
Have we read comprehensively the written material on marxist leninism? Can we 
theoretically compete with the SACP psdeo-communist on socialism and its 
implementation?

I am afraid comrades I hold a view that "some amongst us" reject 
socialism/communism without substance. In my view you cannot claim to be 
politically conscious having not explored the writings of Marx, angels, lenin, 
Mao, Nkrumah, Fanon to name but a few. 

PAC Disciplinary Code defines ignorance as an offense. It further emphasizes 
reading, reading and reading. It seems in our party ignorance is now tolerated 
which is an act that is in conflict with PAC Disciplinary Code.

Yours for a classless society.

Kwame Ndebele
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[PAYCO] Hostile attitude towards socialism/communism is enchored on sheer ignorance!

[linda ndebele]

Revolutionary greetings!

When we took over office in PAYCO we resolved to revitalise the socialist 
aspects of the PAC that had been tarnished completely. A mere mention of 
socialism or marxist leninism invited an avalanche of hostile attack from PAC 
members. Those who purported to be socialist were described as communist, 
anti-pan africanism and other such labels. PAC leadership also did not project 
PAC as a socialist party which allowed the SACP to dominate and monopolize the 
Left.

We have had an opportunity to engage with highly placed and respected party 
leaders who proudly proclaim to be anti-socialism and defend free market 
system. This if tolerated will make PAC not different from the ANC.

PAC founding fathers defined PAC as a socialist party and entrenched it in its 
founding documents and aims and objectives. PAC cannot claim to be a broad 
church as its founding fathers chose the class they pursue its interest.

The real point is that my analysis of those Africanist who are opposed to 
socialism or marxist leninism, the majority of them have no idea as to what 
animal is it. A majority base their arguments on hearsays without reading a 
single book by Marx, Angels, Lenin, Trosky, Nkrumah, Chairman Mao to name but a 
few.

My question to Africanist is , are we really educated on Communism/ socialism? 
Have we read comprehensively the written material on marxist leninism? Can we 
theoretically compete with the SACP psdeo-communist on socialism and its 
implementation?

I am afraid comrades I hold a view that "some amongst us" reject 
socialism/communism without substance. In my view you cannot claim to be 
politically conscious having not explored the writings of Marx, angels, lenin, 
Mao, Nkrumah, Fanon to name but a few. 

PAC Disciplinary Code defines ignorance as an offense. It further emphasizes 
reading, reading and reading. It seems in our party ignorance is now tolerated 
which is an act that is in conflict with PAC Disciplinary Code.

Yours for a classless society.

Kwame Ndebele
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Re: [PAYCO] Fwd: RE: Mkhwananzi Documents by Prof SR Shabalala

[linda ndebele]

Greetings,

I share the sentiments of Prof Shabalala infact they represent the collective 
dismay of PAC members in KZN. As much as one agrees with the view held by cde 
Moloto that the family is within its right to decide as to where to bury their 
loved one but this view does not apply to those who have dedicated their entire 
lives to the struggle.

If this view is entrenched we would arrive in a funeral of a comrade and we 
would be told there would be no political speeches or worse the entire affair 
be handled by ANC or DA. Families must be made aware that we have equally the 
same claim to the comrade as they have if not more.

Families must not be allowed to do as they please when the comrade is not there 
to dictate what should happen with his/her burial.

PAC should not be apologetic at all on these issues. Mkhwanazi's constituency 
has been deprived an opportunity to bury and give farewell to their leader of 
decades.

Farewell Ndonga!

Kwame Ndebele
PAYCO President
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-Original Message-
From: "Narius Moloto" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2013 11:03:50 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Fwd: RE: Mkhwananzi Documents by Prof SR Shabalala

In the end it is the family which decide where they want the funeral to take
place.the frustrations and unhappiness is fully understood.but the family
decisions must be respected.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Regards,

 

Narius Moloto

General Secretary

BCAWU

Tel: 011 333 0881

Fax: 086 520 0413

E-mail:   g...@bcawu.co.za

 



 

From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
vusie
Sent: 04 January 2013 04:17 PM
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Fwd: RE: Mkhwananzi Documents by Prof SR Shabalala

 






Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1


 Original Message 
Subject: RE: Mkhwananzi Documents by Prof SR Shabalala
From: Dedanizizwe Shabalala 
To:
vu...@telkomsa.net,phindilex...@yahoo.com,mwnar...@mweb.com,lauretta.ngcobo@
gmail.com,luyand...@gmail.com,desta...@lantic.net,sizan...@mweb.co.za,pasika
nontsh...@yahoo.com
CC: 





Please find attached the documents written by Prof. SR Shabalala for your
reading. 

 

Regards

 

Mr. D Shabalala

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<>

Re: [PAYCO] Myth of PAC branches

[linda ndebele]

Greetings SG,

Your response is appreciated, although in my view you are taking a ostrich 
approach in looking at this issue hoping that this will dissipate on its own, 
this will not assist the organization.

I and PAYCO were among the overwhelming party members of the party who called 
for the return of 2000 PAC constitution and constitutionality in our party. We 
know quite well that PAC basic structure is a branch. To us the call for return 
to constitutionality was not just a call for compliance, we wanted our actions, 
conduct and organization to be founded and embedded not only on constitutional 
provisions but principles as well.

The argument here is that at this juncture PAC does not have branches 
established as per the constitution and duties assigned to branches. Branches 
exist for elections and party Congresses. Branches are not involved in the day 
to day challenges of communities it exist in. PAC branches hardly have plans of 
action to direct their activities and political programmes.

I maintain a view that the whole concept of branches has not been tested its 
relevance and effectiveness. In order to arrest the cancer of fly-by-night 
branches proper measures have to be put in place to examine the effectiveness 
of branches, legitimacy and actual head count of the so called members.

At this juncture leaders in the PAC are parachuted to leadership using 
fly-by-night branches. Elements who are known to be anti-party unity and who 
have done absolutely nothing with regard to party building continue to lead the 
party, ofcourse this was inherited by this leadership, the only worry is that 
instead of eliminating it, it is perfecting it.

To me the concept members in good standing is just but one element of the big 
lie.
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-Original Message-
From: "Narius Moloto" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2013 10:53:14 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Myth of PAC branches

The constitution of the pac govern the organisation of the party.the basic
structure of the organisation of the pac is the local branch.if things were
not done in terms of the pac constitution such practices were wrong and
should not be condoned.everybody called for the return to constitutionality
of the running of the party because without it we have chaose and anarchy.it
is not a myth to be a member of the party in goodstanding and to belong to a
local branch,this is infact a show of commitment to the party.this argument
is very unfortunate.members of the party need not to have fear as long as
they comply with the party constitution.

It must however be made clear that only party members from party branches in
good standing shall take part in the business of the pac.this are the
disciplined members of our party.everyone has an opportunity to go and
organise a local branch and experience how it is like to do party work.party
members have a duty to do party work amongst the masses,this is what shapes
party members,cadres and leaders alike.talkshop with no practical work for
the party breeds oppotunism,people who accend to leadership positions
without having done nothing to build the party.






Regards,

Narius Moloto
General Secretary
BCAWU
Tel: 011 333 0881
Fax: 086 520 0413
E-mail: g...@bcawu.co.za



-Original Message-
From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
linda ndebele
Sent: 02 January 2013 08:14 PM
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Myth of PAC branches

Greetings,

One feels obliged to venture an issue evaded by our best writers and cream
of our leaders for the fear of being declared as non-members and branch
less. I find this argument of PAC branches disingenuous and founded on a big
lie. As far as I am concerned PAC has no fully fledged branches, if any they
make less than 20% of the total PAC membership, there's no audit report to
refute this fact.

I joined PAC in 1993, from Newcastle Branch, Madadeni. The branch was fully
affiliated in the National and Provincial structures. The branch had over
200 members. The branch was active with a fully operational BEC that met
weekly and General meeting once monthly and the best organiser ever cde
Vusumuzi Dlamini. The branch had a plan of action and had activities that
kept members busy. The branch successfully staged 3 Bredell type land
invasions which resulted to all persons who were party to the land invasions
being allocated permanent sites with electricity, sanitation and running
water. This was done without the support of either National or Provincial
structures of the party. The branch was able to host national party events,
visit of Jeff Masemola, Cde Makwetu during 1994 elections, 2000 elections,
Dr Pheko and other events. The point I am driving home is that branches are
expected to be there to be visible and work in improving lives in
communities they exist in. I have traveled far and wide

[PAYCO] Myth of PAC branches

[linda ndebele]

Greetings,

One feels obliged to venture an issue evaded by our best writers and cream of 
our leaders for the fear of being declared as non-members and branch less. I 
find this argument of PAC branches disingenuous and founded on a big lie. As 
far as I am concerned PAC has no fully fledged branches, if any they make less 
than 20% of the total PAC membership, there's no audit report to refute this 
fact.

I joined PAC in 1993, from Newcastle Branch, Madadeni. The branch was fully 
affiliated in the National and Provincial structures. The branch had over 200 
members. The branch was active with a fully operational BEC that met weekly and 
General meeting once monthly and the best organiser ever cde Vusumuzi Dlamini. 
The branch had a plan of action and had activities that kept members busy. The 
branch successfully staged 3 Bredell type land invasions which resulted to all 
persons who were party to the land invasions being allocated permanent sites 
with electricity, sanitation and running water. This was done without the 
support of either National or Provincial structures of the party. The branch 
was able to host national party events, visit of Jeff Masemola, Cde Makwetu 
during 1994 elections, 2000 elections, Dr Pheko and other events. The point I 
am driving home is that branches are expected to be there to be visible and 
work in improving lives in communities they exist in. I have traveled far and 
wide, to this day I still find it hard to find branches of the Newcastle branch 
calibre.

In the PAC branches are for election purposes, both inter-party elections and 
parliamentaly & municipal elections. Branches are full of members "members", 
people who are absolutely ignorant on PAC aims and objectives, engaging them on 
policy would be an insult to their intelligence. PAC branches don't exist in 
between Congresses. Communities suffer all kinds of difficulties without any 
support from PAC branches, infact during this period they are non existent but 
come elections or congress you'll be told of a branch existing in the area.

These fly-by-night branches are created merely for congresses and elections. 
Mainly they are a brainchild of opportunist who have aspirations of being 
parliamentarians and councillors nothing to do with party building and changing 
the plight of the African people.

The concept of the branch has to be reviewed and test its relevance. The 
existence of fly-by-night branches has robbed our party best brains who cannot 
belong in any branch due to material conditions of the areas they reside on. 
PAC has not taken these issues into consideration.

PAC was banned in 1960 when it had not established itself branches. PAC 
successes were mainly scored by industrious leaders and organisers of the time. 
The concept of branches is not tried and tested in the PAC hence leaders like 
Zeph Mothopeng emphasised cells as the most important element in the growth and 
activities of the party.

Will elaborate further in due course.

Kwame Ndebele
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Re: [PAYCO] Fwd: Fw: PAC Joburg will join the march

[linda ndebele]

We would not allow NGO's to define our policy positions. These NGO's are funded 
and propagate corporate agenda. PAC is not for sale. Why the so called action 
must benefit NGO's not PAC.

We are all involved in community activism but we don't see a need to blow our 
own trumpet, but that has nothing to do with policy position.

Policy positions of the PAC cannot be defined by western funded NGO's but by 
the material conditions of our people
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-Original Message-
From: "Cape " 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2012 08:09:53 
To: ; Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Fwd: Fw: PAC Joburg will join the march

Well said cde Ray, we cannot wait for the policy formulation before we act,
our primary duty as Pan Africanist is to participate to all community
structures and redirect them towards the pan africanist ideas. I have been
watchinng cdes criticised those who are in action but they do nothing. How so
wish that PAYCO can call an urgent congress, so that they can have series
policy formulation. It is my first time when you call yourself leadership but
you criticised those are in action. Whenthis forum was establish was to share
great ideas not critic the progress of others. 

Sello please go and rally masses and challenge the current system while other
are sitting back and watching progress. In na high tone note we are willing to
listen to the leadership of PAYCO, if they aligned themselves with the masses,
specificaly the youth of the PAC. The best solution is to call a Congress.

I remain Pan Africanist

-
On Wed, 7 Nov 2012 19:10:24 +0200 Nkrumah Raymond Kgagudi wrote

 Comrades 

 An attempt to defeat an advance which seeks to pursue a tactical line using
an argument that PAC or PAYCO has no policy on green energy or enegry
generation fails to appreciate a tactital position that can be attained. The
reason PAC and PAYCO continue to be unknown, is as a result of such fear
driven methods in some cases it public phobia methods whereat leaders and
members resort usage of lack of policy as the basis to justify inaction or
none-action. Surely with brains at the disposal of Payco this can be used as
a process to formulate a policy statement and campaigns worth to be
considered at the next PAYCO congress. 

 Arguments advanced by Cde Lindi and Cde Sello surely do hold water thus
comrades should aim towards convergence of ideas, as Mao said let the 1000
flowers blossom and thousand schools of thought contend, we cannot afford not
to act, and we cannot afford to sharpen contradictions and raise hostilities
among ourselves as comrades. 

 I can only urge comrades to sieze the space and exploit it advancing a
tactical line and also use this occurance to formulate an energy generation
and water policy statement and campiagn on energy generation border-left: 1px
#ccc solid; padding-left: 1ex;">Comrade lack of party/payco policy on energy
is creating a vacuum in
propagatin' our position. I wil suggest to those cadres who have been
invited to ask themselves question what will payco achieve in this
regard? As i don't believe that payco should partake in this march
we've nothing to gain.

On 11/6/12, linda ndebele  wrote:
> There's no policy position I know on this issue in the PAC. When you
partake
> as PAYCO or PAC it should be founded on policy position of the party, when
> we represent the party in different platforms in reality we advance party
> policy position not ourselves and our individual views. We need to look at
> the pros & cons of the issue not mere excitement. Mandela made the decision
> to stop nuclear proliferation in SA out of excitement and to please the
> outside world, the consequences had devastating effects to the poor and
> working class in the form of exorbitant electricity prices and billions
> wasted maintaining nuclear infrastructure that no longer service society.
>
> I believe PAC government with its industrial strategy founded on
> fast-tracking economic emancipation and massive industrialization we cannot
> afford to dismiss nuclear energy completely. Of course we should also make
> radical steps to move to environmentally friendly renewable energy but we
> can't perform miracles, western powers who are major polluters must lead
the
> way, they can't have it both ways, proponents of renewable energy and keep
> nuclear energy. Africa's pollution is less than 1%, for me these campaigns
> are misplaced they must target western polluters.
>
> Let's look these issues from the correct political context informed by our
> socioeconomic challenges and standing in world politics.
>
> Linda
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
>
> -Original Message-
&g

Re: [PAYCO] Fwd: Fw: PAC Joburg will join the march

[linda ndebele]

Nobody challenges members freedom of association as long as its not in conflict 
with party position. When we joined PAC we were accepting also that our 
individual views are subordinate to that of PAC.

Policy positions remain cardinal in this unnecessary debate. One raised a 
concern on the basis that the comrade was making a call that PAC members must 
participate on this campaign and when he further elaborated he indicated that 
this call was made in the name of PAC and PAYCO. Then if its done in the name 
of PAC we'll definately object as the call is not founded on party policy 
position.

Comrades are more than welcome to participate and lead NGO's in their 
individual being and there will be no objection whatsoever.

Lack of policy does not give members a license to do as they please and 
pronounce on issues outside proper constitutional structures. Doing that will 
be feeding anarchy and urinating on organizational discipline.

Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: SOSO MASHILOANE 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 22:06:03 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Fwd: Fw: PAC Joburg will join the march

 
In regardless of party position we remain activist in different constituent 
groups as individuals. No one could claim that he or she started being an 
activist after joining the party. Therefore I appeal to our comrades  that, if 
its a good cause worth fighting for join and make a different in your own 
community, Don`t wait for party positions as our party lack proper structures 
or platform to shape its own policy. However members must distanced themselves 
in representing the party without a mandate or party position.
 
Edwin Soso 

--- On Tue, 11/6/12, Bongani Keith  wrote:


From: Bongani Keith 
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Fwd: Fw: PAC Joburg will join the march
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 6, 2012, 9:10 PM


Comrade lack of party/payco policy on energy is creating a vacuum in
propagatin' our position. I wil suggest to those cadres who have been
invited to ask themselves question what will payco achieve  in this
regard? As i don't believe that payco should partake in this march
we've nothing to gain.

On 11/6/12, linda ndebele  wrote:
> There's no policy position I know on this issue in the PAC. When you partake
> as PAYCO or PAC it should be founded on policy position of the party, when
> we represent the party in different platforms in reality we advance party
> policy position not ourselves and our individual views. We need to look at
> the pros & cons of the issue not mere excitement. Mandela made the decision
> to stop nuclear proliferation in SA out of excitement and to please the
> outside world, the consequences had devastating effects to the poor and
> working class in the form of exorbitant electricity prices and billions
> wasted maintaining nuclear infrastructure that no longer service society.
>
> I believe PAC government with its industrial strategy founded on
> fast-tracking economic emancipation and massive industrialization we cannot
> afford to dismiss nuclear energy completely. Of course we should also make
> radical steps to move to environmentally friendly renewable energy but we
> can't perform miracles, western powers who are major polluters must lead the
> way, they can't have it both ways, proponents of renewable energy and keep
> nuclear energy. Africa's pollution is less than 1%, for me these campaigns
> are misplaced they must target western polluters.
>
> Let's look these issues from the correct political context informed by our
> socioeconomic challenges and standing in world politics.
>
> Linda
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: sello  Tladi 
> Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:47:15
> To: 
> Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Fwd: Fw: PAC Joburg will join the march
>
> Izwe Lethu!
> Comrade President,Iam expecting you as my political Principal to be more
> informed around the
> issues of Green politics  Renewable energy a.We are not opposed to
> industrial development however we are opposed to the use of nuclear energy
> hence there are environmental friendly  alternatives that could be
> used,Green Renewable Energy and solar are the alternative.We cannot allow
> the corporates and Western countries continue to use Nuclear energy that is
> polluting our  environment and putting the lives of the working class at
> risk.The law of money making doesn't care for the laws of nature.
>
> Cde President should we keep quite when the Developed Capitalist countries
> are exporting the ecological crisis to Africa,by dumping toxic waste and
> 

Re: [PAYCO] Fwd: Fw: PAC Joburg will join the march

[linda ndebele]

PAC/PAYCO cannot be subservient to NGO's Agenda's, we must lead NGO's not the 
other way around. We must refuse to be an extension of NGO's.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Bongani Keith 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 21:10:11 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Fwd: Fw: PAC Joburg will join the march

Comrade lack of party/payco policy on energy is creating a vacuum in
propagatin' our position. I wil suggest to those cadres who have been
invited to ask themselves question what will payco achieve  in this
regard? As i don't believe that payco should partake in this march
we've nothing to gain.

On 11/6/12, linda ndebele  wrote:
> There's no policy position I know on this issue in the PAC. When you partake
> as PAYCO or PAC it should be founded on policy position of the party, when
> we represent the party in different platforms in reality we advance party
> policy position not ourselves and our individual views. We need to look at
> the pros & cons of the issue not mere excitement. Mandela made the decision
> to stop nuclear proliferation in SA out of excitement and to please the
> outside world, the consequences had devastating effects to the poor and
> working class in the form of exorbitant electricity prices and billions
> wasted maintaining nuclear infrastructure that no longer service society.
>
> I believe PAC government with its industrial strategy founded on
> fast-tracking economic emancipation and massive industrialization we cannot
> afford to dismiss nuclear energy completely. Of course we should also make
> radical steps to move to environmentally friendly renewable energy but we
> can't perform miracles, western powers who are major polluters must lead the
> way, they can't have it both ways, proponents of renewable energy and keep
> nuclear energy. Africa's pollution is less than 1%, for me these campaigns
> are misplaced they must target western polluters.
>
> Let's look these issues from the correct political context informed by our
> socioeconomic challenges and standing in world politics.
>
> Linda
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: sello  Tladi 
> Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
> Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2012 14:47:15
> To: 
> Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Fwd: Fw: PAC Joburg will join the march
>
> Izwe Lethu!
> Comrade President,Iam expecting you as my political Principal to be more
> informed around the
> issues of Green politics  Renewable energy a.We are not opposed to
> industrial development however we are opposed to the use of nuclear energy
> hence there are environmental friendly  alternatives that could be
> used,Green Renewable Energy and solar are the alternative.We cannot allow
> the corporates and Western countries continue to use Nuclear energy that is
> polluting our  environment and putting the lives of the working class at
> risk.The law of money making doesn't care for the laws of nature.
>
> Cde President should we keep quite when the Developed Capitalist countries
> are exporting the ecological crisis to Africa,by dumping toxic waste and
> establishing the most environmentally destructive industries in Africa.
>
> I will continue to PUSH this campaigns,as I sit in the Green Energy Forum
> on my capacity as PAYCO NEC Member and Community activist.There are future
> workshops planned to empower our constituencies around Green Politics
> (Environment/Energy).I
> Comrades around Soweto please contact me for transport.
>
> Sello Tladi
> PAYCO(NEC Member and National Spokesperson)
> 083 859 1654
>
> On Sun, Nov 4, 2012 at 1:56 AM, linda ndebele
> wrote:
>
>> **
>> PAC would join the march on what basis? Is it a principled policy
>> position
>> or NGO opportunistic position?
>>
>> From a developing country that needs urgent boost on industrialization
>> and
>> massive need of energy resources, nuclear remains an important option.
>>
>> We just cannot join a bandwagon of western countries who are developed
>> and
>> used the very cheap nuclear energy to get where they are today.
>> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
>> --
>> *From: * sello Tladi 
>> *Sender: * payco@googlegroups.com
>> *Date: *Sun, 4 Nov 2012 01:38:14 -0800
>> *To: *
>> *ReplyTo: * payco@googlegroups.com
>> *Subject: *[PAYCO] Fwd: Fw: PAC Joburg will join the march
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- On *Sun, 11/4/12, lehlohonol

Re: [PAYCO]

[linda ndebele]

Greetings,

On reflecting on your criticism of PAYCO I have come to this conclusion, "Some 
would go to the extremes to defend madness and crisis in the party." 

Kwame Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Tongogara Ndima 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 09:22:54 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO]

Comrade Linda Ndebele

How better and different is PAYCO under your leadership? Your PAYCO NEC is
full of cowards who want to fight political organisational battles in
facebook and paycogoogle! Do not claim easy victories son of the soil and
tell no lies! PAYCO is useless and non-existent component structure. You
fail to attend PAC NEC meetings and confront Letlapa Mphahlele head on,
this also imply that you as the PAYCO President or Comrade Lucky Khoza
should attend PAC National Working Committee meetings to defend the party
line and constitution. Days of Azanyu have come and gone, now there is
PAYCO under your leadership, you are not only hypocrites but just the same
like Mphahlele Letlapa, PAYCO has no branches, no regions and no provincial
structures which are politically active. Julius Malema with GG
(failed) Woodwork subject in high school developed a programme for youth
mobilisation and ANCYL has become a mouthpiece of the African youth?  PAYCO
NEC cannot even organise a national conference or national congress what a
shame mafrika.

I know you will hate me for this but we will continue drinking beer
together!

Izwe lethu
Ndima

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Mduduzi Sibeko wrote:

>  Cde’s  Seroke and Ndebele
>
> The survival of the PAC in this century is largely depended on how it is
> able to prove its relevance to the general polity of this country. As a
> foot soldier of this movement from the 90’s, I remember, prior to 1994, we
> succeeded in indoctrinating the masses the ideology of Pan Africanism. To
> retrospect, places such as Tembisa had more than 5 branches of PAC, this is
> just to mention one area. The East rand ,in particular, was replete with
> PAC structures, even though, it was not to the strides which the
> charterists had made. Today, I can still see the walls inscribed with PAC’s
> slogans in places such as Katlehong and elsewhere. What was the story
> behind such strides ?. in my mind, I posit that it was our
> non-collaborationist stance during the negotiations era with a concomitant
> of withstanding neo-colonialism of the ANC. The belligerence of APLA
>  against the settler regime should be accorded a credit. With our poor
> electoral showing of 1.2 % in 1994, which was far below the forecast of our
> detractors, who had believed that we would clinch a negligible margin of 5
> %, we degenerated far lesser than that. I remember the NEC( just before the
> elections in 1994) contemplating a legal action against the Star newspaper
> for publishing such a gloomy forecast for the PAC. If the total of 240 000
> people who voted the PAC were file and rank members, why did the PAC not
> retain such member and expand thereof. instead, the poignant reality was
> that in successive elections the number plummeted until it reached its
> nadir of less than 60.000 voters. The disquieting thing is that PAC has
> been plagued with nefarious schism which has never healed to this present
> day. Suffice to say that we have produced splitter opportunistic
> organizations such as ID, PAM and APC. I refer them as such because it
> appears that they were formed merely to benefit their founders with state’s
> accruals, such as seats in parliament. On the other hand, one may argue and
> say: these organizations were spawned due to incurable melancholy of the
> PAC. In some places, you can conclude that the PAC never existed. In
> Daveyton ,for example, we have a place named after Stanly Mokgoba, sadly,
> most people who inhabit this place today do not know if there is an
> organization called PAC. How do we then realign the PAC and the masses.
> Remember, we would boast ‘ the PAC are the people, and the people are PAC’
> .how do we claim such people back ? We have allowed the ANCYL to fill the
> vacuum and steal our thunder by its  feigned revolutionary antics to the
> ANC. The situation within the ANC and its youth league is somewhat redolent
> with the 1949 programme of action. I know most of us are reluctant to admit
> this reality. The fact that from 1994, the political independence has not
> liberated the downtrodden masses, our people are still living in squalor,
> 80 % of our wealth is still in the white minority and they still own 13 %
> of the land. Why don’t we rise to this occasion. In the 1930’s after the
> great depression, in Europe, the  fascist and Nazis were astute to seize
> power from the weaknesses of the system at the time. 

[PAYCO] PAYCO needs a vibrant PAC to succeed.

[linda ndebele]

Greetings,

I have been honoured to lead PAYCO as President since November 2009 up to date. 
It was a very interesting assignment yet very frustrating at certain instances 
and always financially straining. As indicated previously I shall be handing 
over leadership to new, young and vibrant leaders in the seating of the next 
Congress. I wish to state categorically clear that I have no intention of 
leading PAYCO beyond my term. The position of the President is therefore 
available for contestation.

I believe PAYCO is an intergral part of PAC and PAC problems are bound to 
condemn PAYCO. A vibrant PAC is a launching pad for a vibrant PAYCO. Our 
success as PAYCO will always be intertwined with that of the PAC hence we have 
fought fearlessly and tirelessly for the heart and soul of the PAC.

I will further elaborate on the challenges that faced PAYCO and why we were 
unable to be vibrant as we wished and planned.

Yours for a classless society

Kwame Ndebele
PAYCO President
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "linda ndebele" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2012 05:50:31 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO]

Criticism noted.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Tongogara Ndima 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 09:22:54 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO]

Comrade Linda Ndebele

How better and different is PAYCO under your leadership? Your PAYCO NEC is
full of cowards who want to fight political organisational battles in
facebook and paycogoogle! Do not claim easy victories son of the soil and
tell no lies! PAYCO is useless and non-existent component structure. You
fail to attend PAC NEC meetings and confront Letlapa Mphahlele head on,
this also imply that you as the PAYCO President or Comrade Lucky Khoza
should attend PAC National Working Committee meetings to defend the party
line and constitution. Days of Azanyu have come and gone, now there is
PAYCO under your leadership, you are not only hypocrites but just the same
like Mphahlele Letlapa, PAYCO has no branches, no regions and no provincial
structures which are politically active. Julius Malema with GG
(failed) Woodwork subject in high school developed a programme for youth
mobilisation and ANCYL has become a mouthpiece of the African youth?  PAYCO
NEC cannot even organise a national conference or national congress what a
shame mafrika.

I know you will hate me for this but we will continue drinking beer
together!

Izwe lethu
Ndima

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Mduduzi Sibeko wrote:

>  Cde’s  Seroke and Ndebele
>
> The survival of the PAC in this century is largely depended on how it is
> able to prove its relevance to the general polity of this country. As a
> foot soldier of this movement from the 90’s, I remember, prior to 1994, we
> succeeded in indoctrinating the masses the ideology of Pan Africanism. To
> retrospect, places such as Tembisa had more than 5 branches of PAC, this is
> just to mention one area. The East rand ,in particular, was replete with
> PAC structures, even though, it was not to the strides which the
> charterists had made. Today, I can still see the walls inscribed with PAC’s
> slogans in places such as Katlehong and elsewhere. What was the story
> behind such strides ?. in my mind, I posit that it was our
> non-collaborationist stance during the negotiations era with a concomitant
> of withstanding neo-colonialism of the ANC. The belligerence of APLA
>  against the settler regime should be accorded a credit. With our poor
> electoral showing of 1.2 % in 1994, which was far below the forecast of our
> detractors, who had believed that we would clinch a negligible margin of 5
> %, we degenerated far lesser than that. I remember the NEC( just before the
> elections in 1994) contemplating a legal action against the Star newspaper
> for publishing such a gloomy forecast for the PAC. If the total of 240 000
> people who voted the PAC were file and rank members, why did the PAC not
> retain such member and expand thereof. instead, the poignant reality was
> that in successive elections the number plummeted until it reached its
> nadir of less than 60.000 voters. The disquieting thing is that PAC has
> been plagued with nefarious schism which has never healed to this present
> day. Suffice to say that we have produced splitter opportunistic
> organizations such as ID, PAM and APC. I refer them as such because it
> appears that they were formed merely to benefit their founders with state’s
> accruals, such as seats in parliament. On the other hand, one may argue and
> say: these organizations were spawned due to incurable melancholy of the
> PAC. In some places, you can conclude that the PAC never existed. In
> Dave

Re: [PAYCO]

[linda ndebele]

Criticism noted.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Tongogara Ndima 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2012 09:22:54 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO]

Comrade Linda Ndebele

How better and different is PAYCO under your leadership? Your PAYCO NEC is
full of cowards who want to fight political organisational battles in
facebook and paycogoogle! Do not claim easy victories son of the soil and
tell no lies! PAYCO is useless and non-existent component structure. You
fail to attend PAC NEC meetings and confront Letlapa Mphahlele head on,
this also imply that you as the PAYCO President or Comrade Lucky Khoza
should attend PAC National Working Committee meetings to defend the party
line and constitution. Days of Azanyu have come and gone, now there is
PAYCO under your leadership, you are not only hypocrites but just the same
like Mphahlele Letlapa, PAYCO has no branches, no regions and no provincial
structures which are politically active. Julius Malema with GG
(failed) Woodwork subject in high school developed a programme for youth
mobilisation and ANCYL has become a mouthpiece of the African youth?  PAYCO
NEC cannot even organise a national conference or national congress what a
shame mafrika.

I know you will hate me for this but we will continue drinking beer
together!

Izwe lethu
Ndima

On Wed, Oct 3, 2012 at 8:36 PM, Mduduzi Sibeko wrote:

>  Cde’s  Seroke and Ndebele
>
> The survival of the PAC in this century is largely depended on how it is
> able to prove its relevance to the general polity of this country. As a
> foot soldier of this movement from the 90’s, I remember, prior to 1994, we
> succeeded in indoctrinating the masses the ideology of Pan Africanism. To
> retrospect, places such as Tembisa had more than 5 branches of PAC, this is
> just to mention one area. The East rand ,in particular, was replete with
> PAC structures, even though, it was not to the strides which the
> charterists had made. Today, I can still see the walls inscribed with PAC’s
> slogans in places such as Katlehong and elsewhere. What was the story
> behind such strides ?. in my mind, I posit that it was our
> non-collaborationist stance during the negotiations era with a concomitant
> of withstanding neo-colonialism of the ANC. The belligerence of APLA
>  against the settler regime should be accorded a credit. With our poor
> electoral showing of 1.2 % in 1994, which was far below the forecast of our
> detractors, who had believed that we would clinch a negligible margin of 5
> %, we degenerated far lesser than that. I remember the NEC( just before the
> elections in 1994) contemplating a legal action against the Star newspaper
> for publishing such a gloomy forecast for the PAC. If the total of 240 000
> people who voted the PAC were file and rank members, why did the PAC not
> retain such member and expand thereof. instead, the poignant reality was
> that in successive elections the number plummeted until it reached its
> nadir of less than 60.000 voters. The disquieting thing is that PAC has
> been plagued with nefarious schism which has never healed to this present
> day. Suffice to say that we have produced splitter opportunistic
> organizations such as ID, PAM and APC. I refer them as such because it
> appears that they were formed merely to benefit their founders with state’s
> accruals, such as seats in parliament. On the other hand, one may argue and
> say: these organizations were spawned due to incurable melancholy of the
> PAC. In some places, you can conclude that the PAC never existed. In
> Daveyton ,for example, we have a place named after Stanly Mokgoba, sadly,
> most people who inhabit this place today do not know if there is an
> organization called PAC. How do we then realign the PAC and the masses.
> Remember, we would boast ‘ the PAC are the people, and the people are PAC’
> .how do we claim such people back ? We have allowed the ANCYL to fill the
> vacuum and steal our thunder by its  feigned revolutionary antics to the
> ANC. The situation within the ANC and its youth league is somewhat redolent
> with the 1949 programme of action. I know most of us are reluctant to admit
> this reality. The fact that from 1994, the political independence has not
> liberated the downtrodden masses, our people are still living in squalor,
> 80 % of our wealth is still in the white minority and they still own 13 %
> of the land. Why don’t we rise to this occasion. In the 1930’s after the
> great depression, in Europe, the  fascist and Nazis were astute to seize
> power from the weaknesses of the system at the time. to regress to my
> introduction, how relevant are we to our polity ?.I  believe that the
> rivalry within our own ranks has done more damage than in any organization

Re: [PAYCO]

[linda ndebele]

Cde Mduduzi,

Your observation is spot-on. Zuma has been on a mission to erase and undermine 
the role of PAC and its founding leaders in the liberation struggle. He has 
gone a step further by using any platform he gets to mock and undermine PAC and 
its representatives. He has tried to rewrite history of Sharpeville Massacre 
and that of June 16 without any success. He remains bitterly opposed to the PAC 
to this very end.

Having said the above, I remain convinced that as members of the PAC and 
leaders we are responsible for this embarrassment that is continuously suffered 
by the PAC at the hands of charterist. Indeed nobody will defend the glorious 
and great history of the PAC other than its members and leaders. I am reminded 
of a story once told by Nkrumah " That a man was reading his son a bedtime 
story about a fierce fight between man and the lion, after he had finished 
reading, the son asked " Dad, isn't true that the lion is the king of the 
jungle?", the father replied "Yes my son", the boy continued, "but why every 
story you relate in a war between a Lion and Man, Man always emerge a victor 
however vicious the Lion may fight?". Perplexed, the man was quiet for a while 
and then said " you know my son that story will always end like that as long as 
the lion cannot read and write". The moral of the story is that the ANC will 
always write history to its favour and PAC should not expect pittance from the 
ANC. The PAC, its Members and Leaders must rise to the occasion, write our 
history, tell our story and defend our legacy. We should honour our leaders and 
bestow honour to them. Our turn is coming to rename our towns and cities after 
our revolutionary leaders. This will happen when we take-over state power.

We should never expect ANC to give us glory on a silver platter, we must fight 
for it, but most importantly we must fight for state power. As PAC members and 
leaders we have not been vociferous in defending our history, achievements and 
legacy. Despite our academic achievements and intellectual prowess we continue 
to fail to tell the real PAC story and history.

That's my take on your input.

Kwame Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Mduduzi Sibeko 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2012 15:26:21 
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] 

Good day Seroke and Ndebele

The other day, I asked a question about ANC if it could tell the history about 
the PAC. I was watching a video clip from YouTube, when Jacob Zuma mocked  
Letlapa Mphahlele. He said " I have never come across an instance when the PAC 
honors its heroes" this was a response from an statement which Letlapa had made 
the previous day in parliament that the ANC does not honor  PAC heroes. 
Mphahlele cited the operation vila peri which was fought in Mozambique under 
the command of General Kondlo in the seventies. " if there was any war which 
was fought in another country, it is the duty of the PAC to tell people, unless 
one is staying in another country, Azania" said Zuma.  Since 1994, no ANC 
president has ridiculed the PAC than Jacob Zuma. But I see that the PAC, like 
in exile years, does not have a rebuttal machinery to offset such humiliating a 
scorn. The PAC is only visible on the limelight namely on events such as 
Sharpeville day or June 16.it is disquieting when we see the PAC as a dormant 
movement. One writer in this circulation referred to PAC people as cadres on 
wheelchairs. Why are those in the leadership of the PAC failing to put the PAC 
where it should be ? I am worried, it seems that we are gradually moving 
towards extinction, despite having a history. De Klerk one said " the PAC is 
the most dangerous movement in this country". The PAC, then, was astute, it 
responded in the media by saying  it was concerned about the liberation of the 
African people.




This email and any accompanying attachments may contain confidential and 
proprietary information. This information is private and protected by law and, 
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this entire communication immediately and are notified that any disclosure, 
copying or distribution of or taking any action based on this information is 
prohibited. 

Emails cannot be guaranteed to be secure or free of errors or viruses. The 
sender does not accept any liability or responsibility for any interception, 
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or interference with any of the information contained in this email or for its 
incorrect delivery or non-delivery for whatsoever reason or for its effect on 
any electronic device of the recipient. Views and opinions expressed or implied 
in this email are those of the sender unless clearly stated as being that of 
Rand Water. If verification of this email or any attachment is required, please 
requ

Re: [PAYCO]

[linda ndebele]

Greetings,

I concur comrade Mmbara, in my view as PAC we should cease begging ANC to 
hounor our leaders, we are the best people who can honour our leaders best. 
Let's work hard to take over state power and get a chance to change names and 
honour our leaders.

We can't allow ANC government to apoliticize our leaders and in the process 
undermine PAC's role in the liberation struggle. 

The fact is that ANC is in power and will ensure that it remains there. It will 
not give glory to PAC voluntarily and on a silver platter. 

Like any ruling party, ANC is writing history to favour itself but nobody else, 
the same would and should be done by PAC once in power. We would remove ANC 
leaders names and replace them with PAC leaders names.

Izwe lethu!


Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Dzumbu Mmbara 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2012 08:57:16 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [PAYCO]



Cdes

We should marvel less when the enemy rewards one of us, especially our heroes 
and veterans. The only reason the ANC would honor any of our leaders, in life 
or death,  is if it realizes that the publicity and the impact in society's 
consciousness generated from such a stunt will not benefit our movement 
anything. In its own intelligence, the ANC is operating with the notion that we 
are paralyzed to the point that our historical advantage and the great works of 
our leaders cannot redeem us even if celebrated by the state, hence the 
publicity that some of our heroes like Mothopeng has been getting on SABC . 
Hence if you read that article you will note that this honor is for Sobukwe not 
PAC and the PAC is not afforded any space in it regardless of the fact that 
Sobukwe gave up his personal life, prestige and leadership in the League for 
the PAC.

Izwe Lethu!

Dzumbu

" If I'm following a general,
and he's leading me into a battle, and the enemy tends to give him rewards,
or awards, I get suspicious of him. Especially if he gets a peace award before
the war is over"  Malcolm X

From: msib...@randwater.co.za
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] 
Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2012 10:01:08 +









At least the penny has dropped for the ANC government. See the attachment. I 
hope most of you comrades are up to date with this development.
See the attachment.
http://www.thenewage.co.za/55740-1016-53-Sobukwe_family_grateful_for_his_hometown_honour
 
 
 
 
kind regards
Mduduzi Sibeko
Admin/finance


T +27-11-724-9281

C +27-71-101-2595

F +27-11-900-1929 
F 086-754-2176

E  msib...@randwater.co.za

www.randwater.co.za
 
 
 

This email and any accompanying attachments may contain confidential and 
proprietary information. This information is private and protected by law and, 
accordingly, if you are not the intended recipient, you are requested to delete 
this entire communication immediately and are notified that any disclosure, 
copying or distribution of or taking any action based on this information is 
prohibited. 



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incorrect delivery or non-delivery for whatsoever reason or for its effect on 
any electronic device of the recipient. Views and opinions expressed or implied 
in this email are those of the sender unless clearly stated as being that of 
Rand Water. If verification of this email or any attachment is required, please 
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Re: [PAYCO] PAC Leadership Manifesto

[linda ndebele]

Probably its worth asking who nominated cde Sbu for president which 
necessitated that he accepts nomination and forgo his previous position against 
Congress?
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Nkrumah Kgagudi" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 16:44:01 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] PAC Leadership Manifesto

Comrade Xaba

 

I thought you were part of those who rejected and denounced the July 2012
congress on the basis that PAC is not ready for an elective congress and
that focus should be setting up a process to formulate a party political
programme as primary and a necessary act that precedes and dictates
subsequent activities such as identification of leadership and organisation!

 

What made you to change heart? Do you believe that if the July 2012 congress
proceeds, those who will emerge will bring a lasting solution for PAC? 

 

And that the current PAC 'regime' will voluntarily relinquish position of
authority and all of a sudden the spirit of democracy will prevail?   

 

Why not focus in systematic building and re-organisation of the PAC from the
bottom-up? If there are stronger and politically clear branches, no self
serving individuals will ascend into leadership positions without
endorsement of branches? 

 

Are you not falling into the same vicious circle that has led to political
and organisational stagnation of PAC?

 

Lastly, your PAC Leadership Manifesto is interesting, the second paragraph
states that "Our major focus is to foster principled party unity, ." maybe
the comrade can share and explain as to what constitutes a "principled party
unity?" and how will that principled party unity be achieved? What has been
the Comrade's contribution in past to foster that principled  unity within
PAC including its component structures?

 

Secondly, you envisage  "To build a strong PAC institutional capability to
confront injustices, install revolutionary values and sustain Africanist
Socialist Democracy", what constitutes revolutionary values and how can the
PAC "sustain Africanist Socialist Democracy" whilst PAC is not in political
power? And by an Africanist Socialist Democracy you refer to what and what
context?

 

Thirdly, you advanced a view that "Africanist Manifesto remains an up to
date revolutionary platform to guide the African revolution", the Pan
Africanist Manifesto was adopted in 1959, in 1958 Africa had eight (8)
independent African countries, it is now fifty three (53) years since 1959,
there is no longer classic colonialism and there are 53/54 independent
states in Africa, how can a 1959 perspective remain relevant after 53 years?

 

 

I hope you will not find my inquiry rhetorical.  

 

Regards

 

Nkrumah 

 

From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
Sbusiso Xaba
Sent: 06 July 2012 08:17 PM
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] PAC Leadership Manifesto

 

 

On 6 July 2012 18:55, Hulisani Mmbara  wrote:

I came across this 'manifesto' on facebook.

"I accepted nomination for position of PAC President. I pledge to this
commitment."- Sbusiso Xaba

PAC Leadership Manifesto

By Sbusiso Xaba

Preamble

Our major focus is to foster principled party unity, reconcile party members
and create space for members to excel in the service of African people. We
will collectively provide guidance on resolving the current constitutional
crisis. We appreciate that PAC strength lies in its ideology and the
application of democratic centralism should be based on enforceable
decision-making model, which is capable of eliminate unmanaged conflict and
power abuse with the PAC.

Vision

To build a strong PAC institutional capability to confront injustices,
install revolutionary values and sustain Africanist Socialist Democracy.  

Key pillars of PAC program of action

Accelerate PAC cadre development and political education (Pan Africanism,
strategy and tactics).

Develop PAC campaigning capacity in various areas

Sovereignty, reparation, economic self-determination and Africanist
Socialist production 

Holistic life quality to foster the Africanist personality (education,
health and housing).

Nation building (organising African nation scattered across the world).

Develop PAC regulations (internal policies) that guide decision-making and
foster party unity such as:

PAC Cadre Deployment Regulation (Selection, Monitoring and Evaluation)

PAC Delegation of Authority Regulation (what structure make which decision)

PAC Investment Regulation (where and how the party invests)

Develop institutional capacity (strong administrative machinery). Separate
institutional governance, bureaucratic and technocratic functions of the
party

Elect leadership to focus on institutional (corporate) governance of party.

Appoint professional staff to run day-to-day administration machinery of
party.

Appoint professional staff to conduct technocrat work 

Re: [PAYCO] PAC Leadership Manifesto

[linda ndebele]

Interesting, its no longer about leadership collective. This campaign seeks to 
legitimize Letlapa and his flawed processes.


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-Original Message-
From: Sbusiso Xaba 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 20:17:21 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] PAC Leadership Manifesto

On 6 July 2012 18:55, Hulisani Mmbara  wrote:

> I came across this 'manifesto' on facebook.
>
> "I accepted nomination for position of PAC President. I pledge to this
> commitment."- Sbusiso Xaba
>
> PAC Leadership Manifesto
>
> By Sbusiso Xaba
>
> Preamble
>
> Our major focus is to foster principled party unity, reconcile party
> members and create space for members to excel in the service of African
> people. We will collectively provide guidance on resolving the current
> constitutional crisis. We appreciate that PAC strength lies in its ideology
> and the application of democratic centralism should be based on enforceable
> decision-making model, which is capable of eliminate unmanaged conflict and
> power abuse with the PAC.
>
> Vision
>
> To build a strong PAC institutional capability to confront injustices,
> install revolutionary values and sustain Africanist Socialist Democracy.
>
> Key pillars of PAC program of action
>
> Accelerate PAC cadre development and political education (Pan Africanism,
> strategy and tactics).
>
> Develop PAC campaigning capacity in various areas
>
> Sovereignty, reparation, economic self-determination and Africanist
> Socialist production
>
> Holistic life quality to foster the Africanist personality (education,
> health and housing).
>
> Nation building (organising African nation scattered across the world).
>
> Develop PAC regulations (internal policies) that guide decision-making and
> foster party unity such as:
>
> PAC Cadre Deployment Regulation (Selection, Monitoring and Evaluation)
>
> PAC Delegation of Authority Regulation (what structure make which decision)
>
> PAC Investment Regulation (where and how the party invests)
>
> Develop institutional capacity (strong administrative machinery). Separate
> institutional governance, bureaucratic and technocratic functions of the
> party
>
> Elect leadership to focus on institutional (corporate) governance of party.
>
> Appoint professional staff to run day-to-day administration machinery of
> party.
>
> Appoint professional staff to conduct technocrat work of the party such as
> preliminary policy research.
>
> Cooperation and systematic coordination of membership participation in
> social movement. This creates capacity for the party to deliver alternative
> channels for basic services.
>
> Deliberate financial support of component structures to organise in
> mandated social sector.
>
> Offensive component structure (students, labour and women)
>
> Defensive component structure (youth and military veteran)
>
> Conclusion
>
> The miserable, poverty stricken, war mongers and disease riddled Europe
> destroyed African sovereignty. European society further built its
> capitalism trance on the foundation of African blood, African labour and
> African land resources. This low culture society is determined to
> perpetuate these injustices through various schemes of neo-colonialism
> therefore revolution is a necessity for African people.
>
> It is the responsibility of African people to develop mechanisms and
> institutions for their total liberation. PAC is the institution for the
> implementation of the revolution, which is a well planned and immaculately
> executed series of events that is design to bring fundamental social change
> and alteration in power relations. It is my firm believe that there can
> never be a sustainable revolution without a revolutionary party, a
> revolutionary party without revolutionary program, a revolutionary program
> without revolutionary leadership and revolutionary leadership without
> revolutionary theory. Africanist Manifesto remains an up to date
> revolutionary platform to guide the African revolution.
>
>
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
>
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>
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>

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Re: [PAYCO] Re: Fw: Are you a delegate in national...

[linda ndebele]

Cde Eddie,

I personally don't buy the myth and lie continuously perpetuated by some PAC 
"members" that they come from branches and sound structures. I have been in the 
PAC for the better part of my life and have traveled the length and breadth of 
this country and have not seen these "super branches" people always claim to 
belong to.

I am therefore not impressed nor intimidated by such claims. I can tell you 
with certainty that the so called PAC branches people boast about is nothing 
but voting cattles that only exist towards Elective Congresses.

PAC members in the spirit of party building must cease to lie to themselves 
about branches that don't exist. 

Izwe lethu!

Kwame Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Eddie Mfulwane 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2012 12:01:33 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Re: Fw: Are you a delegate in national...

Izwe Lethu fellow africanists.

I took this decision to join in this google group, sober from any personal 
attacks, character assassination or self praise or anything similar to 
tendencies that have found home in many of us particularly participants of 
this group. A majority of us in this group constitute a great man power to 
rebuilding and reshaping this organisation that we claim to love so much 
"the PAC", but our energies are misguided...

I would like to make it clear to all, that in respect of the component 
structure that I am a leader of (PASMA). I'am not articulating a PASMA 
position or PASMA NEC position, but rather my views as a leader of 
Ga-rankuwa (ward 32) PAC Branch. I would like to articulate the following 
without fear or favour of any member of the this group, PAC or not as 
others were members of the PAC or, leaders of its component structures 
still trying to locate themselves into PAC branches with no success till 
today.

 Firstly  if there is anyone who still needs to be taught or prepared to 
learn the PAC Program of Action, and that person is claiming to be a member 
of the PAC.then as a party we still have to apply the principle of each 
one teach one. The each one teach one principle has always been derailed by 
those who see themselves as fountains of knowledge or who always want to 
lead not to be led.. yet history has consistently proved to the masses that 
these are just commentators who just (comment,criticize and condemn) 
without any activity that is adding value to our revolution.with 
special reference to those who are branch-less.

Africanists, I see a number of you are very vocal and active here on the 
net hence we  followed you to your area of speciality if not competence as 
this is the only place many exist politically. Members of the PAC lets 
learn to adopt the culture of belonging to branches and structures so as to 
avoid individual ideas finding expression in PAC matters, worse is those 
who are not belonging to branches or any structure... they don't deserve to 
say a word around PAC matters. 

My friendly advice to those who are currently in leadership positions of 
PAC component structures..we first belong to PAC branches then be 
active in its component structures not the other way around. As component 
structures where are we? what's our role/ vision?? and how different are we 
from the leaders we criticize how effective are we in serving the 
constituencies we are leading if there is any???

Lets take a political mirror and spend time looking at it before we throw 
insults at others.. hey m'afrika Linda what happened in the Free State 
program??? 

I would like to appeal to all strategic forces that lets avoid discussing 
sensitive party issues on platforms of this nature as they expose our 
affairs to non PAC people whom up to this far their intentions are not 
known to the organisation...Lets air our views in correct PAC platforms to 
can register progress if that's our intentions. People must stop taking 
advantage of the mistakes of the Letlapa regime and turn them into their 
scope of operation.

High Moral!!   
On Sunday, July 1, 2012 10:45:17 PM UTC+2, Hulisani Mmbara wrote:
>
>
> -- SMS -- 
> From: +278200701103488 
> Received: Jul 1, 2012 21:49 
> Subject: Are you a delegate in national... 
>
> Are you a delegate in national congress in Butterworth? My branch vote 4 
> Sbusiso Xaba to be PAC President. We request support your branch. More info 
> 0825164664. 
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you! 
>
>

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Re: [PAYCO] Fw: Are you a delegate in national...

[linda ndebele]

PAC people can be shallow sometimes. This sms is out of order. We reject the 
July so called congress and shall reject all of its outcomes including the 
leadership to arise from it
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Motlatsi Mogoiwa 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2012 01:22:02 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Fw: Are you a delegate in national...

joni i received that sms last night. 

--- On Mon, 7/2/12, tembelani xundu  wrote:


From: tembelani xundu 
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Fw: Are you a delegate in national...
To: "payco@googlegroups.com" 
Date: Monday, July 2, 2012, 9:08 AM






Son of the Soil I would be saying you are joking if I did not know the extent 
to which we are in trouble. My honest view is that this is a clear reflection 
that we are not yet serious about the PAC AND THE AZANIAN PEOPLE. I hope this 
does not succeed but if it does we will just go along just like we seem to be 
doing with Letlapa. Comrade Sbu must still develop within the leadership of the 
PAC not as s president, GS, Organiser or so if we are serious.
 
Tembelani Xundu 

- Original Message -
From: Hulisani Mmbara 
To: PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP 
Cc: 
Sent: Sunday, July 1, 2012 10:45 PM
Subject: [PAYCO] Fw: Are you a delegate in national...


-- SMS --
From: +278200701103488
Received: Jul 1, 2012 21:49
Subject: Are you a delegate in national...

Are you a delegate in national congress in Butterworth? My branch vote 4 
Sbusiso Xaba to be PAC President. We request support your branch. More info 
0825164664.
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Re: [PAYCO]

[linda ndebele]

Revolutionary greetings!

Comrade Sibeko, its true that the ANCYL has taken over our programmes and its 
running with it. We acknowledge that as PAC youth we might not be vocal about 
the land question which might have enabled the ANCYL to be uncontested 
proponents of land repossession without compensation.

This might have been caused by the conscious decision taken by the current 
PAYCO leadership to focus more on the socialist aspects of the PAC as we have 
observed an overemaphasis on the land question at the expense of the socialist 
outlook of our party. In our view PAC had been reduced to one-issue party, land 
question. This view denied PAC to propagate other policy and ideological 
standings of the party.

Probably this decision forced us to emphasize socialist perspective of our 
party at the expense of the core issues, like the land question. In our view 
the reclamation of the land was an uncontested PAC issue and PAC leaders like 
Dr Pheko were continuously presenting this core issue, we felt better to pursue 
and entrench the socialist line in the party, media and in the public.

When the issue was taken over by the ANCYL we maintained our policy position, 
but to avoid the risk of being reactionary we did not ridicule them at public 
platforms for the fear of being misrepresented.

Let's acknowlegde that weakness and hope that the lessons learned will be taken 
to heart by the new leadership to take over both PAC and PAYCO. It is critical 
for PAC to balance its policy positions to present a broad view of PAC policy 
positions.

We remain convinced on PAC land policy position and will stop at nothing to 
propagate it. We remain convinced that land should be expropriated without any 
compensation to the thieves who currently possess it.

Also we don't enjoy the media attention that the youth of the ruling party 
enjoys. Ofcourse we were to be on the back-foot noting the controversial 
position ANCYL had taken against its principles founded in the Freedom Charter 
and Property clause, theirs was controversial and of public interests noting 
the radical break away from ANC tradition and policy positions.

Thanks a lot for reminding us our mandate.

Kwame Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Mduduzi Sibeko 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:52:54 
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] 


Cde Ndebele, Seroke

The reactionary ANCYL has undercut our  historical programs. The restoration of 
our land from the colonial settlers. PAC youth formations have never been 
forthright in articulating this position, there is a lull in the PAC  and its 
structural components on the land question . This worries me a lot.

kind regards
Mduduzi Sibeko
Admin/finance
[Description: cid:image001.jpg@01CD276E.55683170]
T +27-11-724-9281
C +27-71-101-2595
F +27-11-900-1929
F 086-754-2176
E  msib...@randwater.co.za
www.randwater.co.za



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Re: [PAYCO] LINE UP FORTHCOMING JULY CONGRESS

[linda ndebele]

Greetings comrades,

We tried our best to avoid engaging on the line up for what is termed 
"forthcoming July Congress" as the so called line up involves names of comrades 
we respect and whom we tout to form part of the leadership collective to take 
PAC to state power. As PAYCO we remain firm that the July gathering should not 
and could not be a Congress.

In all the platforms we have participated in, where PAC was discussed, a 
conclusive position has always been to turn the July Gathering into a 
Conference. We hold a view that all progressive forces holds this position. As 
a matter of principle we cannot be seen shifting from this position.

As much as PAYCO we believe in some of the leaders touted on the line up but as 
a matter of principle we stand opposed to this line up as it gives an 
impression to the unsuspecting that we accept the July "Congress" as a 
legitimate PAC Elective Congress. We cannot continue to commit the same 
mistakes we have committed previously non stop. We must this time around break 
this vicious cycle.

We call upon the comrades mentioned on the line up to make pronouncements on 
their stand to clear the air and give direction.

We must try our best to eradicate factional tendencies if we want to build one 
monolethic PAC that is poised to take state power within a decade.

We call for unity of purpose.

Kwame Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Mavela Mavela 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 30 May 2012 10:14:38 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] LINE UP FORTHCOMING JULY CONGRESS

Other so called African are operating like aids virus with the movement and
would love to see it dying the natural death. To build an organization you
have to serve, suffer and sacrifice. We are not playing mumbles any more
and the time has arrived for us to giraffe against the charterist agent and
fumigate charterist employees.

Maybe others are feeling proud of under-perfoming movement but I am not.

How many influentuial Africanist should leave this majestic movement before
we can  ressurrect from political grave?

How many with membership cards and let alone T-shirts?

I Pause
*Mavela "Agitator"*[?]

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 10:19 PM, Attwell Kwankwa wrote:

> Son of the soil, would you really take out time and disseminate this joke
> called our leadership line-up? Makungapucwa apha.
>
>
> --- On *Mon, 5/28/12, Xola * wrote:
>
>
> From: Xola 
>
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] LINE UP FORTHCOMING JULY CONGRESS
> To: "PAYCO" 
> Date: Monday, May 28, 2012, 7:47 PM
>
>
> So Carl Zimbiri does exist after all?
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "linda ndebele" 
> http://us.mc1114.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kwamendeb...@webmail.co.za>
> >
> Sender: 
> payco@googlegroups.com<http://us.mc1114.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=payco@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 16:42:33
> To: 
> http://us.mc1114.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=payco@googlegroups.com>
> >
> Reply-To: 
> payco@googlegroups.com<http://us.mc1114.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=payco@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [PAYCO] LINE UP FORTHCOMING JULY CONGRESS
>
> For interest sake force, why you state provinces after the name of a
> comrade?
> Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mphiri masoga 
> http://us.mc1114.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mphi...@gmail.com>
> >
> Sender: 
> payco@googlegroups.com<http://us.mc1114.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=payco@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 17:31:59
> To: 
> http://us.mc1114.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=payco@googlegroups.com>
> >
> Reply-To: 
> payco@googlegroups.com<http://us.mc1114.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=payco@googlegroups.com>
> Subject: [PAYCO] LINE UP FORTHCOMING JULY CONGRESS
>
> Revolutionary Greeting
>
> In the name of the Mighty PAC of Azania, Robert Mangaliso Sobukwe,
> Jeff Masemola, "Uncle" Zeph Mothopeng & all mattyrs of our Struggle.
>
> Given the current Party Status and the need to engage robustly we in
> the Azanian Combat, firmly believe that the following should Lead the
> PAC of Azania to Revolution. We have observed with sadness and sorrrow
> hor the DA and the Chaterists make a mochery of the Giant Movement of
> the African People.
>
>
> 1. President - Sibusiso Xaba (Gauteng Province)
>
>
> 2. Deputy President - Mphethi (Mpumalanga)
>
>
>
> 3. Secretary General - Lulamile Ntonzima (Western Cape)
>
>
>
> 4. Deputy Secretary General - Andiswa Mjali (Eastern Cape)
>
>
>
> 5. Secretary For Finance 

Re: [PAYCO] LINE UP FORTHCOMING JULY CONGRESS

[linda ndebele]

For interest sake force, why you state provinces after the name of a comrade?
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Mphiri masoga 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Mon, 28 May 2012 17:31:59 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] LINE UP FORTHCOMING JULY CONGRESS

Revolutionary Greeting

In the name of the Mighty PAC of Azania, Robert Mangaliso Sobukwe,
Jeff Masemola, "Uncle" Zeph Mothopeng & all mattyrs of our Struggle.

Given the current Party Status and the need to engage robustly we in
the Azanian Combat, firmly believe that the following should Lead the
PAC of Azania to Revolution. We have observed with sadness and sorrrow
hor the DA and the Chaterists make a mochery of the Giant Movement of
the African People.


1. President - Sibusiso Xaba (Gauteng Province)


2. Deputy President - Mphethi (Mpumalanga)



3. Secretary General - Lulamile Ntonzima (Western Cape)



4. Deputy Secretary General - Andiswa Mjali (Eastern Cape)



5. Secretary For Finance - Phillip Dlamini (PD) (Gauteng Province)



6. National Organiser - Ligege (Limpopo)



7. National Chairperson - Luthando Mbinda (Eastern Cape)






MaAfrika I conclude by saying IZWE LETHU!




Carl Zimbiri
PAC Activist

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Re: [PAYCO] Twin-Challenge for the PAC post 1994

[linda ndebele]

Greetings dear Pan Africanist,

Great take cde Mmbara and Mashao, I want to confirm the reality that you've 
spoken about regarding comrades employed by parastatals and government. If you 
work for government and you support PAC you can't enjoy a right to express your 
differences with the ruling party. Any slight difference even if its on 
professional grounds is perceived as anti-ruling party.

We are often threatened with suspensions and dismissals for disagreeing with 
the ruling party. Your freedom of Expression and Association are impeded with 
impunity.

If you don't adhere to the demands and whims of the ruling party you won't be 
promoted or short listed for senior positions even if you possess necessary 
skills, qualifications and competences.

The above challenges and more not mentioned make it impossible to believe that 
you can produce a militant leader who works for government to lead PAC to state 
power. I agree wholeheartedly that if we want to lead a militant PAC to state 
power and to radically challenge the ruling party we must be full-time in PAC 
business.

Izwe Lethu!

Kwame 
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-Original Message-
From: mmas...@webmail.co.za
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 10:52:17 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Twin-Challenge for the PAC post 1994

I suppose your first paragraph is a microcosm of what our combat should entail. 
The rule is simple, if you are not prepared to die for it you simply can't have 
it. Contemporary history is abound with living testimonials to this line of 
thought. And indeed because the task of overthrowing capital and its handlers, 
national lackeys, is bound to be tough and most likely blood spilling, we must 
not allow peace-infested individuals to be at the helm of our vehicle for 
change - PAC. 

Here is another point I made before which I wish to reiterate. Let us face it, 
crude. How possible is it for a government, parastatal or capital employed 
person to lead a rise against the ruling party and the obtaining system? The 
answer is pretty easy to fathom. It is near impossible to expect that a person 
would stand against his employer or master unless they have decided to let go.

In my view anyone wanting to serve in the national leadership of the party 
can't be employed by any of these institutions. Other means of employ or 
survival will have to be explored. Our lives and everything must depend on the 
PAC getting it right with the African masses. It can't be a case of if the PAC 
works am fine and if it doesnt I will go and serve the ANC structures in my 
job. With this set up we will be expecting a fear struck person, almost on 
guard all the time to protect a job, to do or say something to risk that noble 
job.

I have had comrades who could not issue any adverse statements against govt 
simply because it has consequences for them. And they are right. The sacrifices 
that need to be made by especially those who aspire to lead, is to dedicate 
their full being and future to the party. PAC is not a job, it is a calling and 
a job only in that sense! They must know that even their natural desire for 
good life is linked to the party and will come true only when they have set the 
party right with the masses. Personally this is what I want to hear amongst 
others, from anybody wanting to replace the current incumbents at the helm of 
the party. 

It cannot be a reaffirmation of the status quo, it has to be a complete change 
of the party s way of doing things, and then a complete new society, founded on 
Pan Africanist ideals. All these must complement our review of the history and 
personality of whosoever wishes to take up the role of a commander in chief of 
the party and possibly the country. People who are prepared for"asazi iyo zala 
nkomoni" as Sobukwe said. People who are ready to operate in uncertainty 
including whether or not they will be alive still when victory is attained.

Izwe Lethu ! IAfrika!

Matome Mashao


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-Original Message-
From: "Hulisani Mmbara " 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Sat, 26 May 2012 09:47:24 
To: PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Twin-Challenge for the PAC post 1994

Thanks comrade Mashao for the input, it has depth and context. 

I still say only those who are prepared to die for the cause of our people 
should lead. And I mean die as in "the biological disintegration of body, soul 
and spirit" and the body becomes lifeless. Lack of commitment to die for the 
cause is lack of commitment to the cause itself. 

Indeed leadership must informed by a programme of action, without which the 
leadership question is reduced to just another fashion parade about who is 
better between me and the next person. Such a contest  has no ideological 
content, no intended plan of action to make the political line of the party a 
gui

Re: [PAYCO] Interview

[linda ndebele]

I am glad I did not encourage friends and collegues to listen as I often do 
when pan africanist speakers are on air. I and my party were going to suffer a 
huge embarrasment. PAC is known of intellectually and grounded members and 
leaders.

PAC public speakers are becoming a PR disaster on a continuous basis. What an 
insult to revolutionary party.

I
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-Original Message-
From: mmas...@webmail.co.za
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 14:00:02 
To: 
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Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Interview

I am in full agreement that a rare opportunity such as today was could have 
been exploited differently. These in the end are manifestations that the centre 
does not hold. In this regard while I note the 20 minutes radio performance by 
comrade Mlambo, my issue resides with the centre that has no hold. This is the 
real issue and less the old man, bar he indeed could have carried himself much 
better.

Until the centre is fixed, and in this case I am not referring to articulate 
verby English oration nor form display; am talking the centre substance wise!!

The task is on hand and many of you have offered suggestions. It is time we 
move to execution.

Matome

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-Original Message-
From: mllolw...@gmail.com
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Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 13:23:59 
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Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Interview

Maybe in future ma-afrika the work of publicity should be handled by pub depart 
dept or prepared by. Them
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-Original Message-
From: "linda ndebele" 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 13:00:50 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Interview

Greetings,

The old man wasted such a valueable airtime. He was there to give praises to 
his friends and read their CV's.

He really failed the party today.
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-Original Message-
From: a...@joburg.org.za
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 14:47:09 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Interview



I think he is missing Themba Godi.



Ali Khangela Hlongwane
Chief Curator: Museum Africa

121 Bree Street
Newtown
2001

Box 517
Newtown
Tel:(011) 833 5624
Fax:(011)833 5636
Cell: 082 4639869
a...@joburg.org.za
http//joburg.org.za/culture/museums-galleries
(This letter was sent electronically and is therefore not signed)




Sebenzile Mlaza 
Sent by: payco@googlegroups.com
05/17/2012 02:32 PM
Please respond to payco

 
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Subject:RE: [PAYCO] Interview


Comrades,
 
To be quite frank with you comrades, Mlambo is clearly campaigning for 
Stanley Mogoba...
 
From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
mllolw...@gmail.com
Sent: 17 May 2012 01:51
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Interview
 
Mlambo could have done better,ill prepared and unprofessional(being late)
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone.

From: a...@joburg.org.za 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com 
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 13:48:24 +0200
To: 
ReplyTo: payco@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Interview
 


 




This was terrible. The comrade was late for the interview. Clearly he did 
not prepare and what did he say 



Ali Khangela Hlongwane
Chief Curator: Museum Africa

121 Bree Street
Newtown
2001

Box 517
Newtown
Tel:(011) 833 5624
Fax:(011)833 5636
Cell: 082 4639869
a...@joburg.org.za
http//joburg.org.za/culture/museums-galleries
(This letter was sent electronically and is therefore not signed)


 


 



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Re: [PAYCO] Interview

[linda ndebele]

Greetings,

The old man wasted such a valueable airtime. He was there to give praises to 
his friends and read their CV's.

He really failed the party today.
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: a...@joburg.org.za
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 14:47:09 
To: 
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Interview



I think he is missing Themba Godi.



Ali Khangela Hlongwane
Chief Curator: Museum Africa

121 Bree Street
Newtown
2001

Box 517
Newtown
Tel:(011) 833 5624
Fax:(011)833 5636
Cell: 082 4639869
a...@joburg.org.za
http//joburg.org.za/culture/museums-galleries
(This letter was sent electronically and is therefore not signed)




Sebenzile Mlaza 
Sent by: payco@googlegroups.com
05/17/2012 02:32 PM
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Subject:RE: [PAYCO] Interview


Comrades,
 
To be quite frank with you comrades, Mlambo is clearly campaigning for 
Stanley Mogoba...
 
From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
mllolw...@gmail.com
Sent: 17 May 2012 01:51
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Interview
 
Mlambo could have done better,ill prepared and unprofessional(being late)
Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone.

From: a...@joburg.org.za 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com 
Date: Thu, 17 May 2012 13:48:24 +0200
To: 
ReplyTo: payco@googlegroups.com 
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Interview
 


 




This was terrible. The comrade was late for the interview. Clearly he did 
not prepare and what did he say 



Ali Khangela Hlongwane
Chief Curator: Museum Africa

121 Bree Street
Newtown
2001

Box 517
Newtown
Tel:(011) 833 5624
Fax:(011)833 5636
Cell: 082 4639869
a...@joburg.org.za
http//joburg.org.za/culture/museums-galleries
(This letter was sent electronically and is therefore not signed)


 


 



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Re: [PAYCO] The PAC is ready for a National Congress

[linda ndebele]

Mr Moloto,

PAYCO concurs with all progressive forces that hold a view that PAC of Azania 
is not ready for National Congress/ Special Congress. PAC Congresses have been 
reduced to nothing but elective gatherings nothing more nothing less. It has 
also been reduced to a gathering that unfairly favours those who hold the 
administrative machinery of the party at that particular moment hence probably 
you are eager to Go for Special Elective Congress as you fall in that category 
at this given moment. To you its not about the party but yourselves.

Progressive forces want to open a new chapter in the history of our party. We 
want to comply with PAC constitutional provisions to the letter. We want to 
turn Conferences  and party Congresses in being platforms that play a critical 
role in policy formulation, cementing unity and defining the party's programme 
of action or line of march.

Your eyes and insight (if you have any) are blinded by your ambition, greed and 
factional tendencies to the reality that the party is not ready for an Elective 
Congress.  We warned those who were desperate like you on the road to Alice 
fiasco, they never listened as their personal ambition was bigger than the 
party and its unity.

The following are some of the reasons that informs a view that "PAC is not 
ready for Special Elective Congress":

1.PAC has been under decree since 2007(meaning state of crisis)
2.PAC has no branches in good standing as per 2000 Constitution as a result of 
the above
3.PAC has no administrative capacity to produce membership cards(except for 
factions and voting cows), audit authenticity of branches and manage processes 
leading to Congress.
4.Constitutional provisions have not been satisfied.
5.Congress organization is not a two-man show (Mphahlele and Mudini) but NEC 
responsibility.

I find it strange and odd for somebody who claims to lead and know PAC to 
continue to utter words that are foreign and unwelcome in the PAC. You claim 
the real owners of PAC are branches what a load of rubbish, you expect such 
utterances from a layman who has no idea what PAC is. PAC founding fathers 
regarded themselves as servants serving the nation and the continent and 
regarded PAC as the property and revolutionary vehicle of the African people. 
John Nyathi Pokela put is better when he says "PAC is the African People and 
African People are PAC". It is this misconception that gives individuals 
impunity to mess up PAC because they hold a wrong view that they own PAC 
therefore have a right to mess up its vision, glorious history, legacy and its 
prospects for a brighter future.

I am quite certain you have no idea what we talk about when we call for 
Programme of Action, had you known you'll not be embarrassing yourself on this 
platform debating against the all-inclusive PAC National Conference. Also for 
the fact that for the last 6 years your leader and yourselves have led our 
party without a programme of action speaks volumes.

Any sound thinking person will prefer to work with PAC "political analyst" than 
busing ANC/COPE and DA "voting cows" to PAC Congresses to dictate the fate of 
PAC.

Let me pose.

Linda Kwame Ndebele
PAYCO President
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Date: Fri, 04 May 2012 14:46:48 
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Subject: Re: [PAYCO] The PAC is ready for a National Congress

On Wed, 2 May 2012 16:00:19 +0200 "Narius Moloto" wrote

 Comrades 

 It must be clear comrades no one stands against unity, in fact I personally
attended many unity meetings called by different people in the past and for
sure will do so in the future should it become necessary. However to suggest
that PAC is not ready for the congress is wrong. 

 Congress is an important forum for branches of the PAC, the rightful owners
of the PAC to decide its fate. Outside the branches and the structures of the
PAC is a matter of opinions and views, which if not shared by the PAC
structures more very little or nothing at all. There is a guarantee that a
conference, convention or any form of gathering would necessarily result in
unity, it is a feeling from comrades who may be right but also maybe wrong.
It is wrong to idolise untested views.  

 We had conferences and conventions in the past, why PAC is still divided if
those forums worked? 

 It is not going to be and event to unite the PAC but a process. You can
(tm)t unite political analysts, but party members under a programme of
action. The best way of uniting PAC members is through a programme of action.
Unity in action is the best form of unity, otherwise we are wasting our time.
If you talk unity with people who cannot organise a party branch you simply
waste your time, such unity will take you nowhere. You can write nice things
about unity and revolution but they remain good and admirable writings
without and organisation they won (tm)t be 

Re: [PAYCO] Thoughts on the leadership challenge in the party

[linda ndebele]

Cde Mmbara,

Powerful introspection. This message is indeed thought provoking. It 
distinguishes between revolutionary and reactionary work. Every revolutionary 
of our generation must make an introspection and make a decisive stance.

Thanks comrade Mmbara for reminding us our historic duty to the revolution.

Izwe lethu!

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-Original Message-
From: "Hulisani Mmbara " 
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Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2012 13:13:05 
To: PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] Thoughts on the leadership challenge in the party

Dear Comrades,

Many efforts have been made to reposition the PAC, especially dealing with the 
leadership question. One such effort is the PAC Indaba held in Orlando 
yesterday, which also doubled as the 53rd Anniversary celebrations of the 
formation of the party. Tremendous work has been done and continues. In this 
regard, efforts of party members should be commended. 

As we go about resolving the leadership crisis in the party, we must also ask 
the fundamental question which is at the heart of regression in the party, that 
is the lack of ideological clarity, strategy, vision and a programme of action. 
What is to be done after removing what we both believe is the stumbling block 
at this juncture? Is the current stumbling block the only cause of regression 
in the party? 

I would venture to say there are many causes of regression in the party which 
is why the party has been in this sorry state of affairs for decades. But post 
1994 the challenges became even greater with the advent of parliament and many 
government employment opportunities which came with the promise of clover and 
comfort which many within the ranks of the liberation movement were deprived 
for decades. This promise also included the hope for many to spend time with 
friends, family and loved ones in 'peace' without being hounded by forces of 
repression. This era, even though heralded as ushering in freedom, also 
introduced a break with the noble culture of service and sacrifice within the 
ranks of the liberation movement. For a party like ours which was falling 
behind events, this period was bound to spell more doom. The fact that the 
party was tailing behind others was worse enough to create more chaos in the 
party hence the vicious circle we find ourselves in. Instead of leadership 
taking a calm posture to chart a wayforward, positioning the party to play a 
leading role and direct the liberation struggle, the tailing game won the day 
and remain the winner to-date. 

We need to pause and stop tailing behind and reacting to ANC agenda. We will 
not be victors in the ANC agenda. What is our agenda as a party at this 
historical epoch? We must set our own terms to pave the path to our ideological 
destiny. The stage set by the ANC will never take us there. What do we plan to 
do for the people of Azania, our oppressed women, the toiling workers, the poor 
masses of our land, Africa and the rest of the oppressed world? What is our 
vision? Where do we want to take our people? How do we want to create our 
version of a just society - an africanist socialist democracy? How do we want 
to free our people from landlessness, hunger, poverty, capitalist exploitation, 
cultural subjugation, illiteracy and ignorance? These are the questions which 
must seize our moments. 

The ANC is going and it will go, no doubt about. Very few governments last more 
than 50 years, for example. Those than do, engage in  robust cultural 
revolution and political education to highten the consciousness of the people. 
The question is who will finally bring down the ANC and take Azania forward? 
Will it be the PAC? Even if the PAC takes over, how long will that last? Power 
can only be consolidated and maintained when there is a forward looking dynamic 
programme under the stewardship of a disciplined revolutionary leadership. 
Selflessness and commitment to the people is key in this regard. If we don't 
firmly restore a culture of selfless leadership what will become of the 
africanist socialist democratic state and its ideals? Will we leave up to this 
noble task as a party? 

Needless to say, we need selflessness and sacrifice first to lead our people to 
freedom before we can dream of taking charge and we need same to maintain the 
africanist socialist democratic state. There is no struggle anywhere in history 
which was won without sacrifice on the part of leadership. I'm yet to see a 
struggle won without leadership sacrifices. If truth be told there will never 
be such. We can obfuscate and romanticize about this but nothing beats the 
truth. 

Are we selfless? Are we prepared to die,  to go to prison or leave our families 
for the sake of our people? The truth is that this is the price we will have to 
pay. There are no other road for a genuine leadership of people struggles. How 
long will we procrasti

Re: [PAYCO]

[linda ndebele]

For me it makes no sense other than political expediency for the YCL to cry 
foul play and present itself as a champion of the indigenous African people 
when the settler leader Pieter Mulder makes an insulting statement on the 
indigenous African people noting that the Communist Party of South Africa were 
the authors of the Freedom Charter that gave white settlers full ownership of 
our land. It is also worth noting that SACP leaders were architects of the 
CODESA & World Trade Centre processes that legitimized the stealing of our land 
and its entrenchment through "property clause" in the 1996 Constitution of the 
Republic.

Neither the ANC nor the SACP have any right to pretend to be fighting the cause 
of the indigenous people on the question of land or any other issue relating to 
total emancipation of the African people, they lost that right in 1955 with the 
adoption of Freedom Charter in Kliptown.

Ofcourse in the absence of a genuine leftist party in Azania  wolves will 
assume the vacuum and exploit it to their advantage.

 If SACP is really communist, then its the worst representative of communism. 
When Mbeki implemented neo-liberal policies, key players in that program and 
his cabinet were the very so communist, Jeff Hadebe, Membathisi Mdladlane, 
Nqakula to name but a few. The so called South African Communists are loyal to 
capitalism and its neo-liberal policies than socialism.

It is important also not to misrepresent PAC founding fathers as 
anti-communism. PAC basic document and speeches by Sobukwe are succinct on this 
issue and should be captured and quoted and such to avoid misinterpretation and 
giving unnecessary credit to SACP liberals.

Kwame

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Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [PAYCO]


A quick response to your concerns: Anyone who has not read or came across the 
rubric (the framing of the discourse) on why the Pan Africans rejected the 
Muscovite communism will always assume - as the press has always done - that 
the PAC and its associates are against the ideals of a new society where 
exploitation is eliminated.  In the book, Pan Africanism or Communism, the 
experience of being treated in the same downgrading racial terms as the 
colonialists by the communist international is criticised and rejected in toto. 
 The Chinese also broke ranks with the "comintern" on more or less the same 
grounds.  In Southern Africa, the interpretation of the national question by 
the Communist Party of SA was not genuine - they refused to name the problem 
and took to obfuscating terms such as "colonialism of a special type"  and even 
asked white workers to unite against the miners recruited in Mozambique, Malawi 
and the hinterlands of occupied Azania who were indigenous to the land. That is 
why Oom Gqobs referred to the pseudo-communists as quacks, as in false doctors. 
 A wrong diagnosis and a wrong prescription. This explanation helps to 
understand why in the PAC Basic Documents we refute the concept of 
totalitarianism and instead agree to democracy where the majority rules and 
basic freedom are accorded all citizens.  The Soviet Union collapsed after 
seventy years because they chased the arms race, had a Kremlin-controlled state 
harassing and suppressing the views of its own people, applied bad practices 
and corruption in economic and foreign affairs policies, and exploited to the 
hilt its satellites in east Europe and in countries such as Angola and 
Mozambique in Southern Africa.  They relied on propaganda to sustain 
themselves.  In reality they suffered food shortages and a myriad of other 
challenges which led to stagnation of the economy and the final collapse.   A 
close analysis will show that the Soviet Union practised state capitalism.  The 
state traded on behalf of its citizens and suppressed initiatives by farmers 
collectives, business forums, worker-led innovations, and other free thinking 
patriots.  The rich were party aristocrats and the masses suffered.  That is 
not socialism.  The principles of socialism are to generate wealth and 
redistribute it to benefit the majority who worked for it.  Socialism is not 
poverty or it is not intended to glorify the poor in their parlous state.  In 
fact, it promotes hard work and honest trading and the need for each to apply 
themselves according to their ability in the creation of a national economy.  
It also encourages creativity and innovation to modernise and reform for 
collective progress.  What failed in the Soviet Union is the dictatorship of 
the state.  Contrast this with the Peoples Republic of China where the 
Communist Party has developed socialism with Chinese characteristics.  Ever 
since Mao met with US president Nixon in 1972, the Communist party leadership 
went on and enhanced their understanding of socialism, and 

Re: [PAYCO] Fw: DECREE

[linda ndebele]

Greetings comrades,

The absurdity of this Decree is that it is invoked outside the parameters and 
limitations of the constitution. There is no crisis in the party except 
Mphahlele and co. The source of crisis cannot simultaneously be the source of 
stability and solution.

The critical point is that Letlapa is no longer PAC President therefore has no 
legal right as per 2000 constitution to lead PAC or declare a decree. His term 
of office expired in September 2009.

The measures taken towards the seating of the June Congress are factionalist, 
divisive and absurd to say the least. The appointment of the very individuals 
who failed to get the administrative and organizational systems to work 
properly is nothing but rewarding incompetence and pushing a divisive factional 
agenda. The very comrades appointed failed to convened an inclusive PAC 
congress hence the three judgements.

Letlapa, Mudihni and co are hopeless cases and cannot work for unity, they 
thrive on anarchy and divisions.

We need an inclusive Congress Organizing body that shall be tasked with issuing 
of membership cards, launching branches, verification of branches and issuing 
of delegate and observer status and other congress logistics.

In the meanwhile it is important to explore the question of Administrators to 
handle day to day party affairs until Congress decides on a new leadership 
collective.

 Izwe lethu!

Kwame Ndebele
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: "Hulisani Mmbara " 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 17:23:33 
To: PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO] Fw: DECREE

Cde. Mdu

We all strife for a united PAC but the unity must be under pinned by principle, 
common vision and a programme of action to rebuild the party and position it as 
a contender for state power in our political space (locally, continentally and 
internationally).

Our unity as members of an organisation, who are brought together by ideology 
and a constitution, should be consistent with the purpose of our existence. 

My experience of at least the past 5 years have taught and shown me that 
Letlapa takes PAC members for granted and is not interested in unity even if it 
is causeless unity . To say for granted its actually an understatement - he has 
no regard for PAC members. That is why he does anything he want, anytime time 
he want with our precious PAC. I equate his treatment of PAC members to someone 
who urinate on his parent's grave.  

The first time he abused the power to invoke a decree he had no good reasons 
for doing so. His raping of the constitution in Alice and creating of parallel 
structures was not in the interest of the party. He did not even follow the 
nullified constitution. Since 2008 the PAC has never had an annual conference. 
How can a party with an important task as the PAC exist without meeting from 
the bottom to the top and reviewing its programmes, policies, strategy and 
tactics? This is high treason. If it was in the army, the perpetrator would be 
deserving of execution. His latest decree is also not in the interest of the 
party. He is not authourised to do all this. He never had the power to dissolve 
the NEC, not in terms of the 2000 constitution.

Needless to say dissolving the NEC is also a dissolution of all members of the 
NEC including President.  The way the Alice congress was constituted was not in 
accordance with the constitution and so is the congress scheduled for June. You 
cannot convene a congress when a constitution is suspended. 

It is up to PAC members to foster unity within the ranks of the party and 
sometimes you foster unity by flushing out divisive elements. I don't think 
that the latest move by Letlapa  will lay any basis for unity. We can only hope 
to achieve unity if we put an end to Letlapa's anarchy not by becoming part of 
it. What Letlapa has been doing for the past 5 years is nothing but anarchy, 
absolute anarchy. I hate devoting time focusing on an individual instead of 
discussing real issues (programmes, policies, strategy, tactics) that take the 
party forward. Izwelethu! 
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Mduduzi Sibeko 
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 15:55:31 
To: 
Subject: RE: [PAYCO] Fw: DECREE

Cde Mmbara:

I hope this is the beginning of unity within the PAC. I sincerely hope that 
that the new leadership will be endorsed by all structures. I hope, we will 
never hear two dissenting voices from the PAC.

-Original Message-
From: payco@googlegroups.com [mailto:payco@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of 
Hulisani Mmbara 
Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 3:30 PM
To: PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP PAYCO GOOGLE GROUP 
Subject: [PAYCO] Fw: DECREE

Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: sndam...@pac-cape.org.za
Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2012 12:07:2

Re: [PAYCO]

[linda ndebele]

Cde Mdu & Mavela

Your call dear comrades would be heeded.

I think people have a variety of reasons why they've been not participating on 
this platform.

I also appeal to all PAYCO members to start participating as well.

Izwe Lethu!
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: mmav...@gmail.com
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 15:27:38 
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [PAYCO]

Greetings Comrade Mdu

I hope this email finds you in excellent condition.

I regret to agree with you that comrades were reduced to 
counter-revolutionaries/ sellout/ ideologically disoriented if not political 
bankrupt  when they were independently contributing with constructive criticism.

These above accusations have demoralized some politically matured. And aspiring 
comrades. I am a leading example of those dismantled comrades.

I hope you guyz have realized the impact of those storming insults on our 
comrades.

I am an Africanist and no amount of tenders can convert me to charterist 
agendas.  

Izwe Lethu! I- Afrika 
Sent via my BlackBerry from Vodacom - let your email find you!

-Original Message-
From: Mduduzi Sibeko 
Sender: payco@googlegroups.com
Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2011 14:13:53 
To: payco@googlegroups.com
Reply-To: payco@googlegroups.com
Subject: [PAYCO] 

Dear Comrades

Why are we silent in this discussion group. When this group started, we had 
some sort of vociferous discussions. I appeal let us return and discuss issues.


kind regards
Mduduzi Sibeko
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<>

Re: [PAYCO] Mandela

[Linda Ndebele]

Izwe Lethu!

Yesterday was the worst day of my life. I had to fight and denounce people I
respected and once admired for supporting and heroworshipping Mandela.
Ofcourse the worst damage was done on kids who were told all kinds of lies by
their parents, media, teachers and church leaders about that not so great
Mandela. I personally boycotted radio, TV and newspapers yesterday, but a lot
of our people especially youth I am certain were bombarded with that nonsense
the whole day yesterday. I also understand that in certain Municipalities
ratepayers money was spent on T-Shirts designed specifically for the day.

The media serves our opprssors therefore cannot expect them to support or
broadcast anything that rejects the Mandela myth. About two years ago on his
91 birthday I and my fellow comrade wrote an open letter to him raising a
number of concerns about him, his misrepresentation of history (in his Long
Walk to Freedom) and his behavior and conduct, guess what it was not
published by any paper except our own newsletter Mayihlome. The Media is not
interested to facts or justice.

In my view the only best option is to tell the story of our leaders, our
movement and that of our people to our youth and kids using any form of
medium that can enable us to dispel these lies that are consistently told by
our oppressors that we owe our freedom to one man only " Super Mandela". This
lousy propaganda was once practiced by the Inkatha in KZN and we were forced
to regard Inkatha as Ubuntu and Buthelezi as our Messiah. We were subjected
to study a subject called Ubuntu/Botho and it was nothing but praise singing
Buthelezi and Inkatha. Guess what it never worked. I'm quite content that
this ANC/ Mandela lie would never succeed. Only the short sighted can vow for
its success. Truth and justice would always prevail. I prefer to be despised
by the world and the living rather than being scorned by the dead, history
and posterity.

Mr Mandela Sir, History is still to make its verdict on your case. I rest my
case

Izwe Lethu!

Kwame Ndebele

On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 10:26:44 +0200 Mzu Cabanga wrote

 Greetings noble sons and daughters of the soil,

It is an honour once again today to get this chance to communicate with you
my brothers.
I think yesterday as angry as we are there devil still prevailed and I think
we actually need to do something.
Yesterday an estimated number of 12 million students sang for the worlds
greatest traitor and the media was lapping it.
One thing that concerns me is that not all these students sang out of their
will but were forced by their teachers to sing or be punished.
This is indoctrination at its highest my fellow Afrikans and I think if we
let this continue we will be carrying water with a bottomless bucket.
It has been proven that it is hard for a child to erase something they have
been taught since primary school, they can even go against their parents for
such a thing.
This is not the only aspect of the indoctrination as we know that students
will also be asked to write essays about Mandela and should they write
something which goes against the dominant views they will get lesser marks
than those who will praise Mandela.
If we think we need to conscietise people about the real struggle that will
emancipate black people of Afrika then such minor things are a huge obstacle
for our cause and we simply can't neglect it.
I think the PAC is better placed to counter this brainwashing scheme that is
currently taking over the media and is currently occupying our childrens
minds.
I propose maAfrika if the are Africans who are serving in the education
departement to issue a statement or call a press conference testifying to how
the manner was conducted and also the right of the children to think
independantly that was deprived.
The PAC will never grow if this madness continues and only Afrikans can stop
it.
I urge all of you to consider this and take it forward to the leadership of
the organisation maAfrika, it is crucial for us to unplug our masses from
this mind control strategy.

Izwelethu!

-- 
Thank you
Mzulungile Cabanga

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