Mike Johnston wrote:
Webster's Second
I found this brief little web-soundbite about Webster's Second. It lays out
the story fairly well:
http://www.inu.org/bieyi/cruises/webster.htm
Great info!
I've been saving this post to be answered, but haven't got around to
it for some reason.
Keith Whaley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't think I have room in my little house for a proper reference
work, as they are huge and take up a lot of space.
Aren't they available on CD-ROM or DVD? I think you can get the OED on
CD-ROM, at least.
--
Mark Roberts
Photography and writing
On Sat, 25 Jan 2003 06:15:30 -0800, Keith Whaley wrote:
I don't think I have room in my little house for a proper reference
work, as they are huge and take up a lot of space.
There used to be a compact version of the OED. It was one volume with
very thin paper. The print was so small it came
Mark Roberts wrote:
Keith Whaley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I don't think I have room in my little house for a proper reference
work, as they are huge and take up a lot of space.
Aren't they available on CD-ROM or DVD? I think you can get the OED on
CD-ROM, at least.
Considering the
Doug Franklin wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jan 2003 06:15:30 -0800, Keith Whaley wrote:
I don't think I have room in my little house for a proper reference
work, as they are huge and take up a lot of space.
There used to be a compact version of the OED. It was one volume with
very thin paper.
On Sat, 25 Jan 2003 09:24:23 -0800, Keith Whaley wrote:
There used to be a compact version of the OED. It was one volume with
very thin paper. The print was so small it came with a magnifier so
you could actually read it.
Sheeet, man, I do that NOW! g
:-)
Seriously, though, here are
-
From: Doug Brewer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
There are some usages that I find distracting. However, I consider it far
more important that the members of the list who do not have
-
From: William Robb [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 7:37 PM
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
- Original Message -
From: Treena
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
If we're going to use the phrase mass destruction
Whaley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 4:55 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
It occurred to me a number of years ago, that if a non-native speaker
depends on the written word to help him 'learn' the language, good luck!
Unless it's a news
Graywolf, Keith,
Note that in certain contexts, linguists and grammarians distinguish
between standard written English and spoken English almost as
though they are two different dialects. Does that happen in other
languages as well?
-- Glenn
I think Shakespeare invented a couple of dozen words. There's no
problem
with a language evolving. Otherwise, we'd all still be talking like the
King James Bible.
Yeah, but Shakespeare was Shakespeare. (That is, whoever he was. g) That
doesn't necessarily excuse bureaucrats using impact
24, 2003 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
Graywolf, Keith,
Note that in certain contexts, linguists and grammarians distinguish
between standard written English and spoken English almost as
though they are two different dialects. Does that happen in other
Brisbane, Australia
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, January 25, 2003 1:56 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
Graywolf, Keith,
Note that in certain contexts, linguists and grammarians distinguish
In a message dated 1/23/2003 1:40:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I once worked with an advertising director who was like this. She was
responsible for writing house ads, but as a writer she was beyond bad--she
was _awful_. She couldn't punctuate, her word choice was
...Now you know why they're called a Whinge of Journalists ;-)
Also, I'm so sorry about this, but I'm about to ramp up into schoolmaster
mode. I do this every now and then, and I *know* it's obnoxious. I'm fully
aware that *most* of you are smarter and better educated than I am and just
as
Hi,
Thursday, January 23, 2003, 2:12:00 AM, you wrote:
Impossibly complex and long winded sentences, e.g., an entire paragraph
that's one sentence. This rarely happens in spoken English, but is the
bane of written English.
that's because in spoken language there are no sentences or
Hi,
Thursday, January 23, 2003, 12:33:14 AM, you wrote:
Split is a bad way to have one's infinitives, all right. And while I may
split infinitives with Yankee abandon, at least we know the difference
between a comma and a period. Have you noticed that your countrymen are
preferring commas
Hi,
Thursday, January 23, 2003, 12:58:33 AM, you wrote:
You do know why American split infinities, don't you? It's because Fowler*
actually approved of the practice--he thought it was pedantic to disallow it
categorically. We promptly stopped teaching grammar in grammar schools and
have been
Anybody got any other favorites?
Yeah, now you mention it. When people write:
'My bad.'
...My bad . what? It's an incomplete sentence and a non-sequitur,
surely?
Like me writing:
My big.
;-)
Cotty
Oh, swipe me! He paints with light!
Hi,
Thursday, January 23, 2003, 3:11:23 AM, you wrote:
Tried to send this earlier, but was having mail problems.
Who the hell coined the word preventative? I always thought it should be
preventive
yeah! Somebody ought to imeddiately draught some sort of law to
preventate those sort's of
Hi,
Mike J wrote:
The researchers finally determined that the same lack of judgment ability
that actually made you _bad_ at the skill to begin with was actually the
same deficiency that made you unable to see yourself clearly.
this describes virtually every exponent of management that
I've
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Not everyone is going to love the written word. Some of us just
view it as a means to an end. That's just a fact of life.
Sure, but it's not black and white. You've actually put your finger
right on it when you say the written word is a means to an end.
When you
, technical terms and words which are not in the computer's
dictionary.
That's my rant done...
Rob
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 23 January 2003 08:32
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
In a message
January 2003 03:20
To: 'Pentax-Discuss'
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
Mike Johnston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
LESS is an amount or volume word. FEWER is a number word.
Mike is correct. In English, less modifies a mass noun
(like Jell-o); fewer modifies a count noun
Very strange, Ann. I think writing in caps was popularized by the
original Apple//, which wrote only in caps. Thus some of the first
bulletin boards and e-mail letters were in caps. (Remember when we sent
e-mail by dialing someone's home modem with a long telecommunication
script, then uploading
In Great Britain, company names are considered plural, so they are
combined with plural verbs. In America we frequently use a singular verb
with a company name, then combine it with a plural pronoun. Pentax has
the resources to develop a DSLR. They will probably release it this
spring. I'm sorry,
Correcting the editor (laugh), Enormously serious attempt!
This is something I really wanted to do for a time. Correcting an
editor I just got back a manuscript from an editor... who which
what well
Dear Sir, You keep coming away from the subject by referring to
linguists when in fact
- Original Message -
From: Peter Alling
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
Weapons of mass destruction.
Since, mass can be neither created or destroyed?
No.
William Robb
I have been seeing this a lot in truck driving school. Some of the
instructors are real back seat drivers, they correct you before you do
anything. Some are a bit better, they correct you while you are doing
something. The one I had yesterday let you drive the truck. He did not
comment on
Certainly one of the reasons I didn't feel too sad when I left AOL,
was getting rid of that inane, grating You've got MAIL!
Curse you, AOL!
They, more than anyone else, will be responsible for generations of
kids who won't know how to use the word got.
keith
Paul Stenquist wrote:
Language is
23, 2003 4:03 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
Hi,
Thursday, January 23, 2003, 12:58:33 AM, you wrote:
You do know why American split infinities, don't you? It's because
Fowler*
actually approved of the practice--he thought it was pedantic to
disallow it
categorically
What, you don't like baby talk, Cotty?
Ciao,
Graywolf
http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto
- Original Message -
From: Cotty [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Pentax List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 4:26 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
Anybody got
Ann Sanfedele wrote:
[...]
Recently I received an email from someone on ebay who hope I could find a
particular item for her.
She wrote the entire email in CAPS. She was - um - about my age and on AOL.
So I try to help
by saying it is considered shouting to type in CAPS. She then
Peter Alling wrote:
Since, mass can be neither created or destroyed?
A mass of people can...
keith
At 08:47 PM 1/23/2003 -0600, you wrote:
On Thursday 23 January 2003 12:53 am, Mike Johnston wrote:
Anybody got any other favorites?
Weapons of mass destruction.
William Robb
corrects someone's writing
publicly is insensitive, impolite, or deliberately obnoxious.
Ciao,
Graywolf
http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto
- Original Message -
From: Doug Brewer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious
-Original Message-
From: T Rittenhouse [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
I would also suggest that anyone who seriously corrects
someone's writing
publicly is insensitive, impolite, or deliberately obnoxious.
It's the same when correcting someone during conversation. I suspect
that's why
My comments one screen down, please...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 1/23/2003 1:40:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I once worked with an advertising director who was like this. She was
responsible for writing house ads, but as a writer she was
Hi, Paul.
In Great Britain, company names are considered plural, so they are
combined with plural verbs.
...which to me seems illogical. ;-)
In America we frequently use a singular verb with a company name,
then combine it with a plural pronoun. Pentax has the resources
to develop a DSLR.
Heck, Doug, most of the folks from non-English speaking countries
here on the list write English better than most of us from English
speaking countries. I suspect that is because they learned formal
English before they learned colloquial English.
I believe that this is often true.
I would
I think I would call that insensitive. But, then what do I know. g
Ciao,
Graywolf
http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto
- Original Message -
From: Fred [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:06 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
On Thursday 23 January 2003 04:18 pm, Dan Scott wrote:
course al the writer meant I have the answer. I need another
lens. Got is a curse.
Paul
Thanks Paul. I think I've got it now.
That is classic g
--
Ken Archer Canine Photography
San Antonio, Texas
Business Is Going To The Dogs
fighting with bows and arrows, and sharp, pointy sticks.
- Original Message -
From: Dan Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
On Friday, January 24, 2003, at 06:25 AM, William Robb wrote
Dan Scott noted:
I certainly enjoy reading all the 'commentates' on the subject—back
formation grows strange fruit.
Then you might also be amused to note that boxen shows up about
as often as boxes as the plural of box in the hackish dialect.
And Vaxen is used way more often than Vaxes. We
For some reason, I never new what a thorn was. Now I know it was a
Runic letter, representing the sound th.
Well, an English letter (as well as being in some Scandanavian
alphabets currently) ... I'm not sure whether it also showed up
in Runic or not (I'll have to check).
And you're welcome!
Peter Alling wrote:
I always prefer As if I cared, it's short and to the point.
Regardsing caring - I just remembered a gaff a friend told me about.
Someone in the business of,
I believe, loan brokering, had this line on imprinted on the bottom of their
stationery: Tell someone who cares.
- Original Message -
From: Keith Whaley
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
Peter Alling wrote:
Since, mass can be neither created or destroyed?
A mass of people can...
The mass will still exist, only the form will be altered.
William Robb
Hi Graywolf,
on 23 Jan 03 you wrote in pentax.list:
Heck, Doug, most of the folks from non-English speaking countries here on
the list write English better than most of us from English speaking
countries. I suspect that is because they learned formal English before they
learned colloquial
- Original Message -
From: Treena
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
If we're going to use the phrase mass destruction, and I suppose we are
since it seems to be officially sanctioned by the UN, how much does it
have
to destroy to qualify as being of mass destruction
William Robb wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Treena
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
If we're going to use the phrase mass destruction, and I suppose we are
since it seems to be officially sanctioned by the UN, how much does it
have to destroy to qualify
Do we =really= need to start up another guns/weapons/geopolitical
penis-measuring debate?
I would vote no.
At 01:05 PM 1/23/03, you wrote:
William Robb wrote:
What is the time span needed for something to be called a weapon of mass
destruction (if we are going to put the term into the
Uggg! I left out the 'k.'
The word was supposed to be 'knew.'
Might as well been Gnu!
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For some reason, I never new what a thorn was. Now I know it was a
Runic letter, representing the sound th.
Well, an English letter (as well as being in some Scandanavian
Well, no, I'd really rather not get into one here. I just HATE to let
folks get away with throwing facts around like that, without being
called upon to... etc. Okay, okay. Sorry.
I'll back off and not mention it again. I'll try, Doug, honest!
keith
Doug Brewer wrote:
Do we =really= need
knows you were only supposed to wear a bit of blue paint.
Ciao,
Graywolf
http://pages.prodigy.net/graywolfphoto
- Original Message -
From: Treena [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
If we're
It depends on which you prefer. ;-)
On Thursday 23 January 2003 08:22 pm, Ann Sanfedele wrote:
This goes for some idiomatic expressions that mean quite different
things across boarders and oceans. Getting knocked-up in Great
Britian vs. USA, for instance. g
--
Ken Archer Canine
- Original Message -
From: Keith Whaley
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
I suppose you can support that hazy assumption?
http://www.cadu.org.uk/malchooprs.htm
Paragraphs 13 14 are particularly interesting.
http://www.iacenter.org/depleted/metal_leftbooks.htm
Hi,
Thursday, January 23, 2003, 2:25:24 PM, you wrote:
And then, there are those who use to in place of too while criticizing
others grammar. (Sorry, I couldn't resist).
tooché!
Bob
(wouldn't that be others' grammar?...g)
I haven't even read one yet, but I thank you for that list.
I WILL read 'em I'll get back to you.
keith whaley
William Robb wrote:
- Original Message -
From: Keith Whaley
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
I suppose you can support that hazy assumption?
http
Then, those features are mis-named.
Your car or computer is notifying you of an event that's already happened,
not warning you. They aren't warnings, and shouldn't be called such, imho.
OTOH, the oil light in a car warns that the oil pressure is low, and that
if the matter isn't looked into,
On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:59:23 -0500, Ann Sanfedele wrote:
Peter Alling wrote:
I always prefer As if I cared, it's short and to the point.
I believe, loan brokering, had this line on imprinted on the bottom of their
stationery: Tell someone who cares.
My preference is DILLIGAF.
TTYL, DougF
Brigham [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 9:14 PM
Subject: RE: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
This is stoopid!
Yes the 'ad-writer' needed their copy reviewed - because it was being
used publicly.
Grammar on the PDML does not matter unless we fail
On Thursday 23 January 2003 08:22 pm, Ann Sanfedele wrote:
This goes for some idiomatic expressions that mean quite different
things across boarders and oceans. Getting knocked-up in Great
Britain vs. USA, for instance. g
Then there is the generational differences in idiomatic expression.
Dan Scott wrote:
Got is a curse.
Paul
Thanks Paul. I think I've got it now.
By God, I think Dan's got it! He's got it!
Paul
Ann Sanfedele wrote:
.
Someone in the business of,
I believe, loan brokering, had this line on imprinted on the bottom of their
stationery: Tell someone who cares.
That made my day, Ann. ROFLOL!
-
From: Doug Brewer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 24, 2003 12:00 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
There are some usages that I find distracting. However, I consider it far
more important that the members of the list who do not have a Master's
Also, I'm so sorry about this, but I'm about to ramp up into schoolmaster
mode. I do this every now and then, and I *know* it's obnoxious. I'm fully
aware that *most* of you are smarter and better educated than I am and just
as capable and accomplished in your own fields as I am in mine. But the
Dare I ask? What the hell brought THAT on?
Mike Johnston wrote:
Also, I'm so sorry about this, but I'm about to ramp up into schoolmaster
mode. I do this every now and then, and I *know* it's obnoxious. I'm fully
aware that *most* of you are smarter and better educated than I am and just
as
Hi,
Wednesday, January 22, 2003, 11:15:09 PM, you wrote:
Dare I ask? What the hell brought THAT on?
probably:
simple, if two lenses are equally corrected, the one with less
elements will be better.
Bob (similarly tooth-grated despite background as linguist, especially about
Bob (similarly tooth-grated despite background as linguist, especially about
split-infinitives, a particular habit of our transatlantic cousins)
Split is a bad way to have one's infinitives, all right. And while I may
split infinitives with Yankee abandon, at least we know the difference
Mike, you need a better dictionary.
Definitions 8 9 are not positional. OVER a hundred years is fine.
See definition 3 for LESS.
Ah, yes, well, dictionaries have been going to hell ever since that damned
liberal subversive Webster's Third came out. AHED is actually one of the
better ones,
Yeah, Mike I know what you mean when you say that Nodoby (sic) ever get
(sic) these things right...
However, I recall someone posting once that we shouldn't correct other
folks' grammar and spelling on the list, since for many, English is not
their first language. You can't always be sure
My pet peeve is people who use the phrase begs the question when
they don't know what it means (they think it means raises the
question).
A couple of pet peeves:
one of the only (it's either the only or one of the few)
that for who, as in the woman that was doing her nails or the
salesman
Ok, time for my mini-rant.
On Wed, 22 Jan 2003, Mike Johnston wrote:
You can have less water in a bucket, less brains in your head, and you could
care less.
Why do people always use I could care less to indicate that they don't
care at all? If they could care less than they currently do,
BTW: Shouldn't it have been What the hell brought on THAT? grin
(Insert Winston Churchill quotation here.)
Mark,
You do know why American split infinities, don't you? It's because Fowler*
actually approved of the practice--he thought it was pedantic to disallow it
categorically. We promptly
Sorry. In Webster's Second College Edition (1970) OVER, prep: #11 -
during; through [over the past ten years].
BR
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I doubt very much that Webster's Second (of sainted memory) would approve of
In business for over 25 years (which phrase I happened to just read on the
BH
- Original Message -
From: Mike Johnston [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 23, 2003 10:53 AM
Subject: Re: OT: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
My pet peeve is people who use the phrase begs the question when
they don't know what it means (they think it means
In a message dated 1/22/2003 5:51:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You may return to your regular programming...sorry again.
(Most of the time,
I'm really getting pretty good at holding my tongue.)
--Mike
Good thing, since my grammar and sentence structure often
On Thu, 23 Jan 2003 11:30:01 +1000, jcoyle wrote:
If I sat down and thought about it, I could probably go on all day!
To, too, and two.
Their, there, and they're.
Dangling prepositions.
Subject/verb agreement.
Improper pronoun choice (me instead of I, etc.).
Word misuse, a la Mike's rant.
that's [...]
Add improper use of contractions to your list. Example: that's.
Gotta keep grist in the mill. Intentionally or not. :-)
TTYL, DougF KG4LMZ
Gotta ain't right neither g.
Ed
_
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN
: Obnoxious Sonofabitch Copyeditor
Webster's Second
I found this brief little web-soundbite about Webster's Second. It lays
out
the story fairly well:
http://www.inu.org/bieyi/cruises/webster.htm
--Mike
Mike Johnston [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
LESS is an amount or volume word. FEWER is a number word.
Mike is correct. In English, less modifies a mass noun (like Jell-o);
fewer modifies a count noun. A word is a count noun if it can be
preceded by a or an.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Language is like a river. It wears a bit here and there and changes its
course. What was correct yesterday may seem unwieldy tomorrow. Yet, I
must admit that some contemporary usage bothers me. Chief among these is
I've got. I've got the answer. I've got to get another lens. When of
course al
Weapons of mass destruction.
now, this is a good one !!!
On Wednesday, January 22, 2003, at 06:46 PM, Mike Johnston wrote:
Mike, you need a better dictionary.
Definitions 8 9 are not positional. OVER a hundred years is fine.
See definition 3 for LESS.
Ah, yes, well, dictionaries have been going to hell ever since that
damned
liberal
Mike Johnston wrote:
My pet peeve is people who use the phrase begs the question when
they don't know what it means (they think it means raises the
question).
A couple of pet peeves:
one of the only (it's either the only or one of the few)
(snp)
Anybody got any other favorites?
On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 20:51:43 -0600, Ed Matthew wrote:
Gotta ain't right neither g.
Yeah, well, what can I say. I'm a slacker. :-)
TTYL, DougF KG4LMZ
On Wed, 22 Jan 2003 23:51:14 -0500, Ann Sanfedele wrote:
Scary, eh?
Some people are born without a brain, others have it removed later. :-)
TTYL, DougF KG4LMZ
ok - how about phrases like I literally could not believe my eyes! Or, as
a significant variation on the theme, I literally died when I saw that!
Most often if not always the speaker/writer intends virtual when they say
literal.
I just had to advantage this thread to get that off my chest.
stan
Doug Franklin [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Their, there, and they're.
...and the belief some seem to hold that the poor apostrophe is a
character used to warn the reader that he's about to observe the
letter s at the end of a word.
Here's a cute little quotation I came across a few years ago:
In a message dated 1/23/2003 1:40:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Well, anyway. There are always going to be people around who claim that
basic correctness in verbal expression is just an annoying distraction that
we would all gratefully dispense with if we could just
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