[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
They killed Kennedy too, along with Mob and the Cubans, decided
to cut their losses. And Elvis. And Marylin Monroe. And they have
their eye on YOU, Louis! --jks
Oh come now. CIA activity in the overthrow of states the U.S.
dislikes is fairly well established.
At 19:32 10/10/00 -0400,
Burford:
The difference between Burford (as he calls me) and Proyect, is that
Proyect seems deliberately to avoid the concrete analysis of the internal
causes that led to the fall of the Milsevic regime, in favour of repeating
only half correctly that the external
Charles Brown wrote:
CB: I thought it was disturbing a few years ago when the Labor Party Prime
Minister ( President ? ) of Israel was assassinated for his peace efforts by
a rightwing student, and then in the election the majority of the voters put
the Likud Party leader in. That seemed to be a
I have realized that I did not comment _which_ were the "national
tasks" I was referring to. I will profit by Ken Hanly's posting on
the strategies of IMF so I can make it clear. I will do some editing,
just in order to explain this issue. I will adapt the "strategy for
Ecuador" to a
En relación a [PEN-L:2978] RE: Re: Memory History: Herman Mel,
el 10 Oct 00, a las 20:05, Lisa Ian Murray dijo:
Nestor,
Do you mean this to say that nationalism is still desirable as a form
of cultural defense against the Americanization of everything?
Ian
I am a socialist, I don't
The problem with Lexis-Nexis is that they use the word "privatization" in
the orthodox meaning of that word in this age of neoliberalism. I was not
using it in that way. Instead, I was referring to the common practice of
insiders in a government (friends of the Pres.) who are able to slice off
BLS DAILY REPORT, TUESDAY, OCTOBER 10, 2000
__Excluding temporary factors, payroll employment growth in the U.S. economy
wavered only slightly in September from its more moderate pattern of recent
months. Payrolls outside of agriculture expanded by 252,000 in September,
but some of the
ng.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/11/00 02:01AM
Therefore, I conclude that the _dominant
ideological reflex_ of American leftists is to appoint themselves as
the police, prosecutor, judge, executioner of peoples who
unfortunately live in countries under America's Official Enemies
while excusing
CB: "Perhaps I should find some Henry James short story with the theme of
American as innocents victimized in jaded old Europe. I can't remember the
name of the one I am thinking of. I think someone dies of scarlet fever
that they catch while visiting the Roman Collesium or something like that.
I guess I am part of the stupid left that is blinkered by imperialist propaganda. I
don't see see how the ratio of state ownership in the former Yugoslavia is deeply
relevant to socialism or whether the regime was worth defending; I am aware that it
was high, but it was as high or higher in
Justin:
I guess I am part of the stupid left that is blinkered by imperialist
propaganda. I don't see see how the ratio of state ownership in the former
Yugoslavia is deeply relevant to socialism or whether the regime was worth
defending; I am aware that it was high, but it was as high or higher
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/11/00 11:52AM
Lou P:
The ratio of state ownership is deeply relevant. It helps to provide a job.
Jobs are necessary for life. With privatization, you get unemployment. With
unemployment you get begging, starvation, prostitution and despair. Very
important questions to
Louis:
We just disagree about the importance of state ownership in the abstract. I support
the welfare provisions you describe, of course, but they are possible under social
democratic capitalism, and state ownership does not guarantee them either. However,
this is a very deep philosophical
Louis wrote:
The ratio of state ownership is deeply relevant. It helps to provide a
job. Jobs are necessary for life. With privatization, you get
unemployment. With unemployment you get begging, starvation, prostitution
and despair. Very important questions to the working class, which is the
At 09:13 AM 10/11/00 -0400, you wrote:
The problem with Lexis-Nexis is that they use the word "privatization" in
the orthodox meaning of that word in this age of neoliberalism. I was not
using it in that way. Instead, I was referring to the common practice of
insiders in a government (friends
Justin wrote:
I do not blame the destruction of Yugoslavia solely on the Milosovic
regime, any more than I blame the destruction of the USSR on the Yeltsin
regime. In both case,there was a conspiracy among nationalist demagogues
(Slobo, Tujdman, etc.) who saw more for themselves in being
Justin:
We just disagree about the importance of state ownership in the abstract. I
support the welfare provisions you describe, of course, but they are
possible under social democratic capitalism, and state ownership does not
guarantee them either. However, this is a very deep philosophical
Jim Devine:
Do you believe that state ownership automatically creates a job? It's not
true in Algeria, for example, where the state ownership of the oil industry
coexists with high unemployment (one factor that has encouraged the Islamic
movement against the government there). Also, even in
Jim Devine:
hell to preserve that power. Second, there's the specific kind of
corruption I was talking about, the use of collectively-owned assets for
private gain. Now, I don't know the facts of the matter, but Milosevic's
colleagues have been accused regularly of exactly that.
Of course
Charles Brown wrote:
CPUSA had a theory of American exceptionalism in the 1930's:
Americanism is 20th Century Socialism ( or maybe the other way
around).
Speaking of the CPUSA, does anyone besides me read the People's
Weekly World? For the last month or two, the paper's been little more
On Tue, 10 Oct 2000, Mikalac Norman S NSSC wrote:
assuming the statements below are based on hard facts, how to get ahold of
these historical per capita GDP data in one or two places for as many
countries as possible as far back as possible?
The OECD has done country surveys for most of
Louis,
RE
... CP'er Nathaniel West.
West was in the CP? It makes sense to me, but who
has said this?
Eric
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 10/11/00 12:58PM
Charles Brown wrote:
CPUSA had a theory of American exceptionalism in the 1930's:
Americanism is 20th Century Socialism ( or maybe the other way
around).
Speaking of the CPUSA, does anyone besides me read the People's
Weekly World? For the last month or
At 10:23 AM 10/11/00 -0700, you wrote:
Louis,
RE
... CP'er Nathaniel West.
West was in the CP? It makes sense to me, but who
has said this?
Eric
Although West's novels were not specifically anticapitalist, he was deeply
involved with the party and its cultural affairs. For instance, he was
Candor and Web
Once, Broadway news and gossip was limited to the newspaper columns of a
boldfaced few. But the Internet has made Walter Winchells of us all.
BY JEREMY GERARD
"A theater insider informed me last night that Rob Marshall was doing more
than 'adding an extra pair of eyes' to
Louis Proyect wrote:
Actually, all of the greatest American literature seems to be wrapped
around this dialectic in one fashion or another. Huck Finn suffers a "loss
of innocence" when he abets a runaway slave. Dos Passos' USA trilogy
examines the fate of numerous characters who forsake
I agree that welfare state capitalism was not on the agenda in the ex-bloc states, but
that does not mean that state ownership that is basically welfdarist is socialist any
more than social democracy is socialist.
In a message dated Wed, 11 Oct 2000 12:33:40 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Louis
[was: Re: [PEN-L:3001] Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Memory History:
Herman Melville's _Benito Cereno_ (was Re: Yugoslavia to fSU and Chile)]
I wrote: Do you believe that state ownership automatically creates [full
employment]? It's not true in Algeria, for example, where the state
ownership of the
This is nothing new. They've been doing it since 1936. --jks
In a message dated Wed, 11 Oct 2000 1:00:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Doug Henwood
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Charles Brown wrote:
CPUSA had a theory of American exceptionalism in the 1930's:
Americanism is 20th Century Socialism
This discussion is getting very repetitive, so I shortened it.
I wrote:
More importantly, I don't see why anyone has to choose between Brezhnev and
Putin. Why can't we reject both?
Louis responds:
Because postcapitalist economies function like trade unions--they offer
working people
En relación a [PEN-L:3000] Re: Memory History: Herman Melvill,
el 11 Oct 00, a las 12:28, Louis Proyect dijo:
I would only add to their excellent article that social democracy is
only possible in imperialist countries. In Costa Rica, the one place
it occurred in the Third World, market
En relación a [PEN-L:3010] What lies in store for Yugoslavia,
el 11 Oct 00, a las 15:21, Louis Proyect dijo:
Report: E. Europe Kids Impoverished
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 2:39 p.m. ET
LONDON (AP) -- At least 50 million children in eastern Europe and the
former Soviet Union
En relación a [PEN-L:3010] What lies in store for Yugoslavia,
el 11 Oct 00, a las 15:21, Louis Proyect dijo:
Report: E. Europe Kids Impoverished
I forgot: remember that old line by Marx, that each social system had
its own population laws? OK, here you have a full scaled experiment
on
Sam Pawlett wrote:
Apart from Marx and Engels, one of the only economists with a deep sense
of the tragic nature of the human condition is Amartya Sen whose stoic
acceptance of the tragic nature of the lives of the poorest under
capitalism render him a modern Marcus Aurelius or Senaca.
Jim Devine:
Not all of them do. Look at Pol Pot's Democratic Kampuchea, which replaced
one ravage for another. No matter how many the Khmer Rouge killed, it's
more than in the average capitalist country.
No socialist revolution here.
Is this the only choice? what about if the TDU were to
At 06:22 PM 10/11/00 -0300, you wrote:
Well, this may presumably be because these countries have been thrown
into the Third World. I guess it will be a great discovery for many
that, yes, white, clear eyed, fair haired, European people can become
"Third World". Probably one of the few good
Be careful, Larry Summers will conclude that this a good "revealed
preference" calculation for the economic value of life in Argentina and then
apply it to pollution control issues. Afterall, aren't financial markets
suppose to be efficient?
-Original Message-
From: Nestor Miguel
I wrote:
Not all of them do. Look at Pol Pot's Democratic Kampuchea, which replaced
one ravage for another. No matter how many the Khmer Rouge killed, it's
more than in the average capitalist country.
Louis writes:
No socialist revolution here.
why not? it sure seems to fit the standard
Note how their model seems to suggest that the earthquake may have
actually increased the GDP. Who needs military spending?
On the Macroeconomic Impact of the August 1999 Earthquake in
Turkey: a First Assessment.
|KW| ENVIRONMENT;MACROECONOMICS
|AU| Selcuk, F.;Yeldan, E.
|AD| Egypt;
Ah yes, the disaster multiplier. It's done wonders in the US coastal
communities and wherever floods strike along major rivers...
Ian
Note how their model seems to suggest that the earthquake may have
actually increased the GDP. Who needs military spending?
On the Macroeconomic Impact
Jim Devine:
why not? it sure seems to fit the standard definition: peasants take power
(under the leadership of a party that is organized along "Leninist" lines,
i.e., as a top-down hierarchy of the sort that became popular under Stalin)
and the state takes over the means of production.
full article http://www.iht.com/IHT/TODAY/THU/IN/revenge.2.html
Paris, Thursday, October 12, 2000
Across Yugoslavia, the Once-Powerful Get the 'Milosevic Treatment'
By R. Jeffrey Smith and Peter Finn Washington Post Service
BELGRADE - It is not often that low-level employees in large
I agree that state or rather some type of collective ownership is a
necessary but not a sufficient condition for socialism. Among the positive
features of state ownership not mentioned are:
i) profits are not distributed to private capital but to the state for
collective use.
ii) state
Listening to Gore and Bush talk about foreign affairs sent me right to
the remote to tune in the baseball game. What disgustingly blatant
imperialism. What both say is that the US has the right to do whatever
it pleases, wherever it pleses, whenever it pleases, all the while
nouting the most
The Lawrence Journal-World (Lawrence, Kansas) October 9, 2000
'Oz' author sought Indian holocaust:
Baum penned 'wonderful' book, plus editorials advocating genocide
By Tim Carpenter
L. Frank Baum's fairy tale about a Kansas girl swept by a tornado to a
magical world of munchkins and
Justin:
The regime drove the worker control that was once the glory of
Yugoslav socialism into the dust. It properly drew the hatred of the
Serbian people--the Montenegrins too. I am sure that they will be in
for an unpleasant surprise with the new order, but at this point
they are going
En relación a [PEN-L:3022] Re: Re: What lies in store for Yugos,
el 11 Oct 00, a las 14:50, Jim Devine dijo:
hey, there are a lot of Irish Catholics in the North of Ireland who
feel that they're treated like "Third Worlders," just as Irish
immigrants were when they came to the US in the
En relación a [PEN-L:3023] RE: Re: What lies in store for Yugos,
el 11 Oct 00, a las 17:53, Brown, Martin (NCI) dijo:
Be careful, Larry Summers will conclude that this a good "revealed
preference" calculation for the economic value of life in Argentina
and then apply it to pollution control
In a message dated 10/11/00 6:08:25 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
It seems to me a clear case of bad socialism (though it shouldn't be used
to say anything about socialism in general).
I can't remember any details, but Michael Vickery had a discussion of this
topic
Capitalist gremlins at work. The last sentence should read that production
based upon need or social policy rather than private profit becomes less and
less etc..
CHeers, Ken Hanly
- Original Message -
From: Ken Hanly [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, October
In a message dated 10/11/00 10:19:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The problem is that "the choice" was not theirs. The bombings
economic sanctions, even aside from lesser forms of attacks and
propaganda, have shaped the nature of "the choice" made by a large
From all the comments towards the end of this piece, by Baum defenders,
perhaps the idea that Baum was ironical in following Jonathan Swift's article
recommending cannabalism of Irish babies seems a stretch. Surely some of
Baum's defenders would have made that case if it were credible. Still,
I read this an obscure journal. I knew that many of the early
sociologists were writing in response to Marx, is as the neoclassical
economists were.
Manski, Charles F. 2000. "Economic Analysis of Social Interactions."
Journal of Economic Perspectives,
14: 3 (Summer): pp. 115-36.
"Charles Camic
Leo Casey wrote:
One of the facets of Morrison's work which is so relevant here is that she
understands, in a way that Yoshie clearly fails to understand, how much
African-American memories and history are woven into the very weft and woof
of the fabric of American memories and history, how much
Justin:
In a message dated 10/11/00 10:19:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The problem is that "the choice" was not theirs. The bombings
economic sanctions, even aside from lesser forms of attacks and
propaganda, have shaped the nature of "the choice" made by a large
October 12, 2000
http://www.nytimes.com/2000/10/12/politics/12LEND.html
Senators Propose Global Version of C-Span
By THE NEW YORK TIMES
WASHINGTON, Oct. 11 Two senators proposed setting up a global equivalent
of C-Span, the public affairs cable channel, as a way of dismantling what
they
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Comments on the Milosevic Ouster, etc.
By Noam
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