Re: New Group proposed: subs (was Re: named parameters)

2000-08-04 Thread skud
On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 01:36:02AM -0400, Uri Guttman wrote: it looks like typechecking and named params should fork off into a subs subgroup. all of you with an itch to write an rfc, here is your chance. Anyone want to put their hand up as a chair of such a sublist? Damian's got the closest

Re: RFC 16 (v1) Keep default Perl free of constraints su

2000-08-04 Thread Ariel Scolnicov
I eighth this (or whatever). Perhaps, though, in addition to adding a zillion new command-line switches, Perl could check the name of the executable? funperl -pe 's/foo/bar/' - vs. - #!/usr/local/bin/bdperl # (-w, `use strict', etc. implied) Rationale: The one thing a one-liner

Re: RFC: lexical variables made default (revised)

2000-08-04 Thread Ariel Scolnicov
Nathan Wiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: You've taken the wrong approach. If you're writing a big program then there should be *no* default scope. Any variable access is an error unless that variable was my()ed or our()ed. That's basically what 'strict' gives us. Fair enough. I've

RFC: Rename local() operator

2000-08-04 Thread J. David Blackstone
Since no one else has taken this up, I'll start an initial draft. =head1 TITLE Rename the Clocal operator =head1 VERSION Maintainer: J. David Blackstone [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 4 Aug 2000 Version: 1 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Number: not yet assigned =head1 ABSTRACT The

Re: RFC: type inference

2000-08-04 Thread Ken Fox
Chaim Frenkel wrote: The Bytecode representation should be mutable and contain enough iformation for type/data flow analysis. What do you mean by "mutable"? Wouldn't the dataflow analysis for a given bytecode be immutable? Or do you mean the implementation should be hackable? (Do you think

Re: RFC: Rename local() operator

2000-08-04 Thread skud
Please do not send your RFCs to both perl6-rfc and perl6-$working_group. The RFC librarian will automatically forward your RFC with a number on it, which is kinda neater. K. -- Kirrily Robert -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://netizen.com.au/ Open Source development, consulting and solutions Level

Re: Recording what we decided *not* to do, and why

2000-08-04 Thread Johan Vromans
John Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But a standardized macro facility would be nice. Although -- wouldn't it have to parse perl? Or else have a wholly distinct grammar? Several macro processors exist and are easily available. I do not see the need to duplicate (parts of) their

Re: Recording what we decided *not* to do, and why

2000-08-04 Thread Johan Vromans
Tom Christiansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: While a function style or quoted form comment might seem clever, and even Perlish due to its syntax, it doesn't help the author of the code/comments readily distinguish them. What good are comments if you can't find them when you need them?

Re: New Group proposed: subs (was Re: named parameters)

2000-08-04 Thread Hildo Biersma
Damian Conway wrote: One of my many RFCs will include a proposal for a $SELF variable along those lines. Before it's too late - please, don't impose either '$self' or '$this', but make this a per-module choice. I deal with people of both these religions... Hildo

Re: switch/case (c) vs. case (pascal)

2000-08-04 Thread Damian Conway
Please, please, *PLEASE* read through Damian's fine paper on this entire matter before rendering judgment. URL? http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/TPC/2000/switch/paper.txt Damian

Re: try/catch (Was: Re: RFC: Modify open() and opendir() to return handles)

2000-08-04 Thread Hildo Biersma
Johan Vromans wrote: You missed the point. If you need 6+ lines of code for each elementary error check, this is what is going to happen (and it _does_ happen in almost every Java program I've seen): try { open file while read a record process its contents

Re: New Group proposed: subs (was Re: named parameters)

2000-08-04 Thread Andy Wardley
Before it's too late - please, don't impose either '$self' or '$this', but make this a per-module choice. I deal with people of both these religions... What about '$me'? It ties in nicely with 'my' (although perhaps for the wrong reasons), it's half as much typing as 'self' or 'this' and

Re: New Group proposed: subs (was Re: named parameters)

2000-08-04 Thread Damian Conway
What about '$me'? It ties in nicely with 'my' (although perhaps for the wrong reasons), it's half as much typing as 'self' or 'this' and we get to annoy both sets of religious zealots at once. :-)= You took the words right out of my...err...fingers! Although, of course, it will

Re: switch/case (c) vs. case (pascal)

2000-08-04 Thread Tom Hughes
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED], Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Please, please, *PLEASE* read through Damian's fine paper on this entire matter before rendering judgment. URL? http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~damian/TPC/2000/switch/paper.txt Very interesting. I look forward to

Re: Reduce [was: Re: Random items (old p5p issues)]

2000-08-04 Thread Martyn Pearce
On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 08:16:17AM +1000, Jeremy Howard wrote: Martyn J. Pearce wrote: ... what I would like to discuss adding to the language is 1) a means to signal an early exit to the iterator, 2) a means to tell we're at the end of a list without having to evaluate the list length

Re: The Conway list

2000-08-04 Thread Randal L. Schwartz
"skud" == skud [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: skud My $DEITY, someone sedate this man before he drowns us all in skud Perl RFCs! K. From the subject line, I thought it was another mailing list for me to send in a subscription request! -- Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc.

Re: RFC: lexical variables made default

2000-08-04 Thread Piers Cawley
Tom Christiansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Perl's similarity to English is one of the things that makes it Fun. OTOH, being fun (which I admit it is) is one of the reasons many people don't want to think Perl is a serious language. So what? Well said.

Re: RFC: lexical variables made default

2000-08-04 Thread Piers Cawley
Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Perl's similarity to English is one of the things that makes it Fun. OTOH, being fun (which I admit it is) is one of the reasons many people don't want to think Perl is a serious language. Not saying we should eliminate all

Re: perl 6 requirements

2000-08-04 Thread Piers Cawley
Tom Christiansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: True, but maybe a lower precedance keword is needed like we did or || and . I think someone suggested "then" print $string1, $string2, "\n" then return 3 if $cond; then again, maybe not. Why not just piss everybody off? return 3

Re: RFC: Filehandle type-defining punctuation

2000-08-04 Thread Tom Christiansen
Some related issues: 1) Did Larry or did he not mention something about dealing with indirect object more cleanly? Maybe clarify this just a little. I don't think I was present for this discussion. That's just the indirect object slot ambuiguity annoyance. See the OO chapter in

Re: RFC: Filehandle type-defining punctuation

2000-08-04 Thread Tom Christiansen
How often does the return value from chomp or chop get used? The confusion would cleared up considerably, I think, if they didn't return a value. Seldom, I think--albeit sufficiently often that you might want the perl526 translator to have any such found be converted to some kind of

Re: Recording what we decided *not* to do, and why

2000-08-04 Thread Tom Christiansen
Several macro processors exist and are easily available. I do not see the need to duplicate (parts of) their functionality in perl. Personally, I'd even trow out -P. Well, possibly, but especially if a cpp-like source filter module is included standard. --tom

Re: RFC: Filehandle type-defining punctuation

2000-08-04 Thread Piers Cawley
Tom Christiansen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: But that, precisely, was my point: Arrays *and* hashes. If there is more than one plural whatzitz, then why can't there be more than one singular whatzitz? (and don't say, "because plural *means* more than one" :-). If having a filehandle

Re: RFC: Drop distinction between user-defined and built-in functions

2000-08-04 Thread Tom Christiansen
Johan Vromans [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: =head1 ABSTRACT Perl distinguishes named operators and functions. For Perl6, this disctinction can be dropped. Will this then work? sub foo { my $func = shift; $func(@_); } foo(\print, "foo"); foo("print", "foo");

Re: RFC stuff

2000-08-04 Thread Piers Cawley
Nathan Torkington [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Tom Christiansen writes: What is the purpose of ghettoizing everying cohering topic? Making us subscribe to infinite lists to wear us down? Yes. If you really care about the topic, you'll join the list. If you don't care, stay off the

Re: RFC: lexical variables made default

2000-08-04 Thread Bart Lateur
On Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:48:17 -0400, John Porter wrote: OTOH, being fun (which I admit it is) is one of the reasons many people don't want to think Perl is a serious language. I don't agree. The problem is somewhere else, namely the problem that Ilya Z. brought up: the fact that there is no

Re: RFC 17 (v1) Organization and Rationalization of Perl

2000-08-04 Thread Bryan C . Warnock
On Fri, 04 Aug 2000, Peter Scott wrote: The punctuation versions do at least have the merit of i18n :-) I don't see any "use French" scripts out there yet... I had a tentative 'use Arabic;' module, but couldn't figure out how they'd say "setuid". (Plus, my Arabic skills have drastically

Re: RFC: lexical variables made default

2000-08-04 Thread Tom Christiansen
The descriptions in perlfunc etc. are not 100% complete. Then send a patch. There are some features that are still not documented. Therefore, it is not possible to mathematically prove that a largish program is correct. Your "therefore" is misplaced or misguided. Formal proof systems of

Re: Life without eval

2000-08-04 Thread Tom Christiansen
Hello! I am thinking about the perl compiler, and I thought if somebody avoid using the "eval $scalar", the compiled code (perl to C compiled code) may not contain a full perl interpreter. If it is the case, we must say to any module developer: Don't use "eval $scalar"! This

Re: RFC 17 (v1) Organization and Rationalization of Perl

2000-08-04 Thread Ted Ashton
Thus it was written in the epistle of Tom Christiansen, If we were selecting dubious features to shoot (and I think we are), then the fact that $^F and $ are the same is one I'd kill--by zapping the latter, too. I'm afraid I couldn't argue very convincingly against it, though I'd be truly

Re: RFC 2 (v1) Request For New Pragma: Implicit

2000-08-04 Thread Bart Lateur
On 03 Aug 2000 22:23:08 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote: What would be the method to _avoid_ emitting something? What would be the result of open(Foo, "Bar")# Prints FILEHANDLE=0xdeadbeef $x++; # Prints 3 Exactly. I can think of even more cases: * What do

Re: Perl as Pascal (was Re: RFC 16 (v1) Keep default Perl free of constraints su)

2000-08-04 Thread Tad McClellan
On Thu, Aug 03, 2000 at 10:33:21PM -0700, Peter Scott wrote: A constant topic of discussion is how to make Perl more accessible and friendly to the the newcomer, And we will get a chance to discuss that very thing right here, (I already think we 're going to need a sub-list for that

Re: RFC: Filehandle type-defining punctuation

2000-08-04 Thread Ted Ashton
Thus it was written in the epistle of Tom Christiansen, How often does the return value from chomp or chop get used? The confusion would cleared up considerably, I think, if they didn't return a value. Seldom, I think--albeit sufficiently often that you might want the perl526 translator to

New sublist: perl6-language-subs

2000-08-04 Thread skud
Ask, can we please have this one too? List name: perl6-language-subs Chairs: Tim Jenness [EMAIL PROTECTED] Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] (if he wants it) Charter:Draft, discuss, and revise RFCs relating to subroutines in Perl 6, eg named

Re: RFC 17 (v1) Organization and Rationalization of Perl

2000-08-04 Thread Ted Ashton
Thus it was written in the epistle of Tom Christiansen, Has having $ and its riends caused trouble for you? Only embarrassment at explaining it. While I only use one ^Form (and I suspect that that is true of most programmers), I still remember the thrill at discovering that the one ^Form

RFC 18 (v1) Immediate subroutines

2000-08-04 Thread Perl6 RFC Librarian
=head1 TITLE Immediate subroutines =head1 VERSION Maintainer: Jean-Louis Leroy Date: 04 Aug 2000 Version: 1 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Number: 18 =head1 ABSTRACT This very simple construct, inspired by the Forth language, makes the parser extensible by Perl code, providing

RFC 20 (v1) Overloadable and ||

2000-08-04 Thread Perl6 RFC Librarian
=head1 TITLE Overloadable and || =head1 VERSION Maintainer: Jean-Louis Leroy Date: 04 Aug 2000 Version: 1 Mailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Number: 20 =head1 ABSTRACT It should be possible to overload and ||, for this has very legitimate uses. =head1 DISCUSSION The reason often

Thoughts on list volume and sublists

2000-08-04 Thread skud
I was having a think about the volume of discussion on -language and whether it's workable. From my point of view, I'd prefer that it was about half as busy, maybe even less. Fifty posts a day I could easily cope with and spend time thinking about; a hundred and fifty, or two hundred and fifty,

Proposed sublist: errors

2000-08-04 Thread skud
I propose a sublist "perl6-language-errors" to cover the following topics: - exceptions - $! and $? - any other error handling topics, as seen from a language viewpoint If you wish to say yes/no to this proposal, please email me privately. If you have detailed comment, please post on-list.

Re: try/catch (Was: Re: RFC: Modify open() and opendir() to return handles)

2000-08-04 Thread Nathan Wiger
Thats just because IO::Socket is done wrong Maybe we should address this? If we're keeping syscalls just because a possible replacement module is just written wrong, we should fix this. I don't like giving up low-level control either, but imagine something like this: $port = shift ||

Proposed sublist: flowcontrol

2000-08-04 Thread skud
I propose a sublist, perl6-language-flowcontrol, to discuss the following: - case/switch - uri's looping stuff - anything else related to flow control, from a language perspective Let me know what you think or if you're interested in chairing this group (uri? sounds like your kind of thing?)

Re: RFC 16 (v1) Keep default Perl free of constraints su

2000-08-04 Thread Nathan Wiger
IME, I find it more dangerous to do behind-the-scenes hand holding than to simply teach them the hows and whys of the "right way." Exactly. The key word above is "encourage". You're not really encouraging anything - you're now having the language mandate particular constructs, without

Re: RFC 21 (v1) Replace Cwantarray with a generic Cwa

2000-08-04 Thread skud
This one should be discussed on -subs as well, please. K. -- Kirrily Robert -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://netizen.com.au/ Open Source development, consulting and solutions Level 10, 500 Collins St, Melbourne VIC 3000 Phone: +61 3 9614 0949 Fax: +61 3 9614 0948 Mobile: +61 410 664 994

Re: try/catch (Was: Re: RFC: Modify open() and opendir() to return handles)

2000-08-04 Thread Nathan Wiger
Tom Christiansen wrote: Thats just because IO::Socket is done wrong Maybe we should address this? If we're keeping syscalls just because a possible replacement module is just written wrong, we should fix this. Why would we ever remove a syscall!?!? Sorry, wrong verbage. I meant "the

Re: try/catch (Was: Re: RFC: Modify open() and opendir() to return handles)

2000-08-04 Thread Tom Christiansen
Tom Christiansen wrote: Thats just because IO::Socket is done wrong Maybe we should address this? If we're keeping syscalls just because a possible replacement module is just written wrong, we should fix this. Why would we ever remove a syscall!?!? Sorry, wrong verbage. I meant "the

Re: proto-rfc. Elements of @_ should be read-only.

2000-08-04 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 08:20 AM 8/4/00 -0400, John Tobey wrote: Ken Fox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: John Tobey wrote: The Perl 5 (and older) behavior may preclude some optimizations. I can't think of any optimizations @_ assignment precludes. If we don't analyze dataflow to figure out if a sub modifies its

Re: proto-rfc. Elements of @_ should be read-only.

2000-08-04 Thread Tom Christiansen
At 12:47 AM 8/4/00 -0400, Ken Fox wrote: John Tobey wrote: The Perl 5 (and older) behavior may preclude some optimizations. I can't think of any optimizations @_ assignment precludes. If we don't analyze dataflow to figure out if a sub modifies its args, then we just assume it will. If we

Re: proto-rfc. Elements of @_ should be read-only.

2000-08-04 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 09:10 AM 8/4/00 -0600, Tom Christiansen wrote: At 12:47 AM 8/4/00 -0400, Ken Fox wrote: John Tobey wrote: The Perl 5 (and older) behavior may preclude some optimizations. I can't think of any optimizations @_ assignment precludes. If we don't analyze dataflow to figure out if a sub

Re: try/catch (Was: Re: RFC: Modify open() and opendir() to return handles)

2000-08-04 Thread Nathan Torkington
Tom Christiansen writes: Maybe we should address this? If we're keeping syscalls just because a possible replacement module is just written wrong, we should fix this. Why would we ever remove a syscall!?!? I vote for migration to a module. If you're going to use the long-winded form of

Re: try/catch (Was: Re: RFC: Modify open() and opendir() to return handles)

2000-08-04 Thread Tom Christiansen
Why would we ever remove a syscall!?!? I vote for migration to a module. And sysopen and fcntl and waitpid and ioctl

RE: switch/case (c) vs. case (pascal)

2000-08-04 Thread Ala Qumsieh
Tom Hughes wrote: Is there any difference, besides the default fall through of the C switch statement? I believe Pascal's case statement allows only one statement to be executed for each case. This is, IMHO, a pain in the ass. Personally, I prefer to see something more like C's switch, but I

Re: RFC 18 (v1) Immediate subroutines

2000-08-04 Thread Michael Mathews
=head1 EXAMPLES # multiline comments sub comment { return ''; } use immediate 'comment'; sub foo { # ... comment { this is a multiline comment; the call to comment is executed at parse time and returns an empty string that replaces the whole call in the parse stream }; } I

Re: RFC: Rename local() operator

2000-08-04 Thread Jonathan Scott Duff
On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 01:37:09AM -0500, J. David Blackstone wrote: =head1 IMPLEMENTATION Csave If I had my druthers, save() would be it. -Scott -- Jonathan Scott Duff [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: RFC 19 (v1) Rename the Clocal operator

2000-08-04 Thread Glenn Linderman
Instead of "local", how about... reuse redef our_temp Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote: =head1 TITLE Rename the Clocal operator -- Glenn = There are two kinds of people, those who finish what they start, and so on... -- Robert Byrne NetZero Free

Re: RFC: lexical variables made default

2000-08-04 Thread John Porter
Bart Lateur wrote: On Thu, 3 Aug 2000 10:48:17 -0400, John Porter wrote: OTOH, being fun (which I admit it is) is one of the reasons many people don't want to think Perl is a serious language. I don't agree. The problem is somewhere else, namely the problem that Ilya Z. brought up: the

Re: try/catch (Was: Re: RFC: Modify open() and opendir() to return handles)

2000-08-04 Thread Steve Simmons
On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 09:10:38AM +0200, Johan Vromans wrote: You missed the point. If you need 6+ lines of code for each elementary error check, this is what is going to happen . . . You're correct, but that's not what I was suggesting. The magic words are `for each elementary error

Re: RFC 22 (v1) Builtin switch statement

2000-08-04 Thread Graham Barr
On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 02:59:06PM -, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote: Howeverm it Iis possible to cause a Ccase statement to "fall-through". If a Cnext is executed within a Ccase block, control is immediately transferred to the statement following the Ccase block. For example:

Re: RFC 18 (v1) Immediate subroutines

2000-08-04 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 02:45 PM 8/4/00 +, Perl6 RFC Librarian wrote: =head1 TITLE Immediate subroutines This does complicate the job of the parser/lexer rather considerably. While not a reason to not do it, if we're going to do this we should do it with significant force and flexibility that we don't need to

Re: RFC 28 (v1) Perl should stay Perl.

2000-08-04 Thread Simon Cozens
On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 09:05:38AM -0700, Nathan Wiger wrote: Suggestion: Can we manually renumber this "RFC 0"? This should be the first one at the top of the list, not buried somewhere within. my($.02). We *shouldn't* need to spell this out for people. It really, really terrifies me that we

Re: Life without eval

2000-08-04 Thread Simon Cozens
On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 12:24:01PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote: At 02:31 PM 8/4/00 +0200, dLux wrote: My suggestion is: declare "eval $scalar" as a bad guy. It's not just string eval. It's also do FILE and require. Which you need at runtime, even in compiled code, to run external

Re: proto-rfc. Elements of @_ should be read-only.

2000-08-04 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 05:16 PM 8/4/00 +0100, Piers Cawley wrote: Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Indirect calls might not be a problem, depending on how much flow analysis we can do in the optimizer. While that won't be much in the on-the-fly-compile version (a 10s runtime with a 50s compile time's not

Re: RFC 18 (v1) Immediate subroutines

2000-08-04 Thread skud
[ Cc'd back to -language, hope you don't mind ] On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 09:08:18PM +0200, Jean-Louis Leroy wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Please take discussion on this RFC to the forthcoming -subs sublist. Really. Just hold off for a little while until the list is up. Should be really

Re: RFC 28 (v1) Perl should stay Perl.

2000-08-04 Thread skud
Hear, hear! -- Kirrily Robert -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- http://netizen.com.au/ Open Source development, consulting and solutions Level 10, 500 Collins St, Melbourne VIC 3000 Phone: +61 3 9614 0949 Fax: +61 3 9614 0948 Mobile: +61 410 664 994

Re: RFC: Drop distinction between user-defined and built-in functions

2000-08-04 Thread Tom Christiansen
Gisle Aas wrote: foo(\print, "foo"); I think it's critical that built-ins be reference-takeable, just like user-defineds. But they [dw]on't work right. sub CORE::push { push(@_); $fn = \CORE::push; $fn-(@some_array, now, some, list); --tom

Re: RFC 28 (v1) Perl should stay Perl.

2000-08-04 Thread John Porter
Simon Cozens [EMAIL PROTECTED]: =item Functional Programming Just because Perl has a Cmap operator, this doesn't make it a functional programming language. Perl has always been squarely procedural, It has also been roundly object-oriented and rectangularly functional, at least since

Re: Recording what we decided *not* to do, and why

2000-08-04 Thread Tom Christiansen
I don't much care for m4; it's not so much better than cpp to be worth the notice. *Strongly* disagree. --tom

Re: RFC: Drop distinction between user-defined and built-in functions

2000-08-04 Thread Tom Christiansen
Tom Christiansen wrote: I think it's critical that built-ins be reference-takeable, just like user-defineds. But they [dw]on't work right. Um -- why not? Why can't we make then work right in perl6? As my example demonstrated, it's because there's no run-time application of content

Re: RFC: Drop distinction between user-defined and built-in functions

2000-08-04 Thread Tom Christiansen
As my example demonstrated, it's because there's no run-time application of content coercion templates. And I don't think s/ent/ext/

Re: Life without eval

2000-08-04 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 01:30 AM 8/5/00 +0900, Simon Cozens wrote: On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 12:24:01PM -0400, Dan Sugalski wrote: At 02:31 PM 8/4/00 +0200, dLux wrote: My suggestion is: declare "eval $scalar" as a bad guy. It's not just string eval. It's also do FILE and require. Which you need at runtime,

Re: RFC 18 (v1) Immediate subroutines

2000-08-04 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 02:42 AM 8/5/00 +1000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [ Cc'd back to -language, hope you don't mind ] On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 09:08:18PM +0200, Jean-Louis Leroy wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Please take discussion on this RFC to the forthcoming -subs sublist. Really. Just hold off for a

Re: Recording what we decided *not* to do, and why

2000-08-04 Thread John Porter
Tom Christiansen wrote: I don't much care for m4; it's not so much better than cpp to be worth the notice. *Strongly* disagree. O.k., what I really meant was, When they're both incapable of doing the sorts of things I want a macro language to do, does it matter that one is gobs more

Proto-RFC: A Standard Always-Live Preprocessor

2000-08-04 Thread John Porter
Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: Perl. :-) Isn't this what source filters is all about? There's something to be said for there being a standard, always-on preprocessor, the way C has cpp. While -P makes available a nice usable preprocessor for perl, not much code uses it, because not many

Re: RFC 2 (v1) Request For New Pragma: Implicit

2000-08-04 Thread Tim Jenness
On Fri, 4 Aug 2000, Bart Lateur wrote: I think it's a bad idea. I would rather do it as the C64 did: use a very short function name as an alternative to "print". P "This gets printed!", "\n", "Yeah!\n"; Just like perldl already allows(but that's an intereactive shell so we try

Re: RFC 18 (v1) Immediate subroutines

2000-08-04 Thread skud
If it's a language thing (as your mailing list field in your RFC indicates) then it should be on -subs. If it's a precompiler thing then, um, doesn't that fall under internals? Nope. Internals implements (and possibly says "You want us to do *what*!?!?"), language designs. Get us a design and

Re: Proposed sublist: flowcontrol

2000-08-04 Thread skud
On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 01:07:07PM -0400, Uri Guttman wrote: i like perl6-language-flow better. Yeah, so do I. I did wonder whether maybe it wasn't clear enough, though. s - case/switch try/catch Any thoguhts on the errors sublist? should this be there, or in -flow, or what? /me takes 1

Re: Stackable ties

2000-08-04 Thread Robin Berjon
At 16:24 03/08/2000 -0700, Peter Scott wrote: Is it at all possible to define interfaces for tie-ing that would facilitate stacking? Do we care? I think we should care, notably for tied handles. It would be very useful to be able to pipe ties easily. -- robin b. Always remember you're

Re: New Group proposed: subs (was Re: named parameters)

2000-08-04 Thread Kyle R . Burton
One of my many RFCs will include a proposal for a $SELF variable along those lines. Why not allow for the choice of the name of self, perhaps through a pragma? use self = 'self'; use self = 'this'; or something along those lines -- since it's currently up to the devleoper anyway. Somethign

Re: Proto-RFC: A Standard Always-Live Preprocessor

2000-08-04 Thread Dan Sugalski
At 01:23 PM 8/4/00 -0400, John Porter wrote: Jonathan Scott Duff wrote: Perl. :-) Isn't this what source filters is all about? There's something to be said for there being a standard, always-on preprocessor, the way C has cpp. While -P makes available a nice usable preprocessor for

Re: RFC 29 (v1) unlink() should be left alone

2000-08-04 Thread Nathan Wiger
I say this as a Unix weenie, albeit a Unix *user* rather than a Unix *programmer*. I'm quite used to navigating the Unix filesystem but, having never braved Unix systems programming, had no conceptual link between deleting/"rm"ing files, and the term "unlink". It tooks me quite a bit of

Re: New Group proposed: subs (was Re: named parameters)

2000-08-04 Thread Damian Conway
One of my many RFCs will include a proposal for a $SELF variable along those lines. Why not allow for the choice of the name of self, perhaps through a pragma? use self = 'self'; use self = 'this'; or something along those lines -- since it's currently up

Re: Proposed sublist: flowcontrol

2000-08-04 Thread Damian Conway
i think damian's influence on perl6 is our real triple top secret weapon. This realization has hit me on the head really hard. My prediction is that Perl6 will have to be dual-credited. I doubt it: Lucifer doesn't get a by-line on the Bible. There's only one Larry.

Re: RFC 24 (v1) Semi-finite (lazy) lists

2000-08-04 Thread Damian Conway
From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sat Aug 5 04:36:31 2000 Received: from ALPHA8.CC.MONASH.EDU.AU (alpha8.cc.monash.edu.au [130.194.1.8]) by indy05.csse.monash.edu.au (8.8.8/8.8.8) with ESMTP id EAA20410 for [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Sat, 5 Aug 2000 04:36:31 +1000 (EST) Received: from

Re: PDL-P: Re: Reduce [was: Re: Random items (old p5p issues)]

2000-08-04 Thread Karl Glazebrook
OK I will raise to the bait I think it's a bit unfair to say that PDL people have failed to 'bite', there was quite a bit of discussion on our list after your post. Also some concern about how much of perl6 is vapourware. I am game to take part in discussions. It has always been apparent to

Re: RFC 28 (v1) Perl should stay Perl.

2000-08-04 Thread Chaim Frenkel
I'm not quite buying into this. There are some things that are just easier with this style of thinking. Its a higher level construct. Akin to telling your interior decorator that you'd like the furniture to match the wallpaper. You've left out all the details but the decorator can easily see

Re: RFC 24 (v1) Semi-finite (lazy) lists

2000-08-04 Thread Ted Ashton
Thus it was written in the epistle of Damian Conway, I have an RFC coming on that :-) I think Skud asked the wrong questiong :-). Would you please submit a comprehensive of the topics on which you are not about to produce an RFC. That will allow others to focus their work. Thank you very

RE: RFC 22 (v1) Builtin switch statement

2000-08-04 Thread Damian Conway
Could a way be found to control the flow so that the next case (not always the one next in the order of the statment) could be executed? For example you have cases 1-10. You want all odd cases to also execute case 9 and the even cases to also execute case 10. So in case 3 you

Re: RFC 28 (v1) Perl should stay Perl.

2000-08-04 Thread Jonathan Scott Duff
"PRL" == Perl6 RFC Librarian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: PRL =item Functional Programming PRL Just because Perl has a Cmap operator, this doesn't make it a PRL functional programming language. Perl has always been squarely PRL procedural, and so things like Creduce and Ccurry and other

Re: PDL-P: Re: Reduce [was: Re: Random items (old p5p issues)]

2000-08-04 Thread Karl Glazebrook
Also on the issue of loop unrolling and efficient looping. PDL has what we call 'threading'. This allows a C-level function to specify the dimensionality of the arguments it accepts. For example a function addtoline() which hyptheticaly adds a constant to a row vector might have a 'signature'

Re: RFC 22 (v1) Builtin switch statement

2000-08-04 Thread Jonathan Scott Duff
On Sat, Aug 05, 2000 at 05:09:28AM +1000, Damian Conway wrote: Not necessary. switch ($val) { case 3 { print "three"; goto odds } case 4 { print "three"; goto evens } And "goto" could be spelt "next" too? That would make sense to me, but

RE: RFC 29 (v1) unlink() should be left alone

2000-08-04 Thread Myers, Dirk
Ariel Scolnicov: It so happens that remove() is standard C (library) for removing a file. It therefore makes sense to use *that* name, if any change is made. IMHO, it's poorly named (though using remove() at least has the virtue of not conflicting with/overloading the existing "delete").

RE: RFC 22 (v1) Builtin switch statement

2000-08-04 Thread Lipscomb, Al
Not a bad solution, at least for the example I put forth. I like the ability to have the specific as well as the general in the case statement ('2' and '__%2 != 0'). Thanks. Could a way be found to control the flow so that the next case (not always the one next in the order of the

RE: RFC 29 (v1) unlink() should be left alone

2000-08-04 Thread Fisher Mark
5. Other operating systems/ file systems have, or could have hypothetically, the same operation. I.e. just because NTFS doesn't have multiple links now (or does it?) doesn't mean it won't in the future. NTFS does support hard links right out of the box, although the first

Re: PDL-P: Re: Reduce [was: Re: Random items (old p5p issues)]

2000-08-04 Thread Tim Jenness
On Fri, 4 Aug 2000, Tuomas Lukka wrote: On 4 Aug 2000, Ariel Scolnicov wrote: Well, first of all, 10:100, 30:200 is not the same: in Perl it comes out as 10..100, 30..200 10, 11, ... , 100, 30, 31, .., 200 Additionally, generically it would not necessarily

Problems with perl6-rfc address??

2000-08-04 Thread Nathan Wiger
Sorry for the broadcast, but anyone else having problems with perl6-rfc? I sent two separate RFC's in from separate mail servers but haven't seen anything happen with them. It's been a good hour, too. Thanks, Nate

Re: RFC 22 (v1) Builtin switch statement

2000-08-04 Thread Damian Conway
Does "goto odds" mean start evaluating all cases after the "odds:" label? Meaning that the below is equivalent to the above? I think this is what the original poster was asking; if not, I'd like to ask it! That's exactly what it means. switch ($val) {

Re: RFC 25 (v1) Multiway comparisons

2000-08-04 Thread Glenn Linderman
Great idea! (Don't accuse me of apathetic lurking!) I suspect it already has a different meaning, based on operator precedence rules, left to right evaluation, etc., but I strongly doubt there is much use of it in that manner, and would encourage this redefinition to be used instead. Perl6 RFC

Re: RFC 29 (v1) unlink() should be left alone

2000-08-04 Thread Spider Boardman
On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 16:33:41 -0700, Damien Neil wrote (in part): Damien On Fri, Aug 04, 2000 at 04:39:24PM -0400, Spider Boardman Damien wrote: The C (POSIX.1) remove() function is NOT just unlink() in drag. Damien Not everywhere, at least: Damien REMOVE(3) FreeBSD Library Functions Manual

Re: RFC 29 (v1) unlink() should be left alone

2000-08-04 Thread Tom Christiansen
Gosh, just unlink() leave it as it is. --tom

Re: RFC 29 (v1) unlink() should be left alone

2000-08-04 Thread Tim Jenness
On Fri, 4 Aug 2000, Damien Neil wrote: My opinion on the unlink()/remove() debate: Ignoring our history is foolish. Why suddenly transform every Perl program that uses unlink(), which has been valid for over a decade, into one using an outmoded and deprecated construct? unlink() is, in my

Re: RFC 17 (v1) Organization and Rationalization of Perl

2000-08-04 Thread William Setzer
Perl6 RFC Librarian [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : : =head2 Disadvantages : : Literally none have been broached on the various Cperl6 mailing lists. Potential disadvantage, depending on implementation: The loss of distinctiveness. Right now, when one sees a $linenoise variable, they notice its

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