ch less
NT useful).
Then how would one get the distributed effect? An apply operator?
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
"DC" == Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
DC I *still* think it should be "unmerge"! ;-)
Hrmpf. It should be reshape.
(Which would be its own inverse and saves a keyword.)
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, I
used.
PRL The semantic is enhanced as much as possible under this constaint.
PRL Additional changes to pack/unpack are listed in other proposals.
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
otten very confused.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
f you want to adjust for timezones just calculate the constant. Which
since you are giving it in HHMM format you might as well just calculate
directly.
So what am I missing.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL
et the user know why.
That selects either a non-local goto or a return mechanism depending upon
context. (Dynamically within the control of a try/eval, or under pragmatic
control requesting the non-local mechanism.)
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Kn
"PS" == Peter Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
PS At 07:00 PM 8/16/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
Perhaps, throw can carry a return value?
throw {"return value"} $exception;
If there is an active try/catch context then the $exception would
be propogated, otherwise
"PS" == Peter Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
PS At 07:10 PM 8/16/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
"PS" == Peter Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
PS 1. When an exception is thrown perl looks for the enclosing try block; if
PS there is none then program death ensues.
Err
s for core functions. And optional for module authors.
Then Fatal.pm and exception.pm could possibly be consolidated.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
he actual victim may not be the primal
cause.
sub foo {
my $fh = open();
... Lots more code ...
return $fh;
}
$victim = foo;
print $victim "I'm helpless";
chaim
--
Chaim Frenkel
Not a nice attitude. The failure is not close to the cause. Neither in
time or space.
If it were closer to the open, at least an intellegent message might
be displayed. Your way, nothing but.
*ARRGGHHH*, tainted data, in Foo.pl at line 37 chunk 12
(Why does that remind me of rogue?)
cha
overhead.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
the object, then in the class for
PS uncaught_handler.
PS I think it's cool how this process is converging :-)
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
ease.
$SIG{DIE} should die. Action at a distance. Global. Can't know what
other threads or modules want done here.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
d if every thread has to recompile all its own modules.
SWM We could either discuss alternate approaches for RFC1, or I could
SWM submit a new RFC for a thread architecture that gives me the
SWM performance I want.
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL
yntax,
JSD but I like the idea. If everything become objects under-the-hood,
JSD then we could have:
JSDfor $a (@array) { print "$a is at $a-index\n"; }
JSD No, I'm not wild about that either, but it's an idea.
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Kn
(7,8,9,10) }
$x = fn(); # $x == 10
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
change. I simply want that return (I'm not sure
how to phrase this) be able to return only a scalar or an aggregate.
It should be immune from having a scalar context pushed through from
the caller and change the commas from a list seperator into the comma
operator.
chaim
--
Cha
as to have protection. If you want the variable to be shared
declare it.
SWM Example 3: Closures (Ken's example)
Aha, I get it. -internals has been assuming that one _must_ specify
the sharing. You want it to be infered.
I think that's asking for too much DWIMery.
chaim
--
Cha
pletely
TC expected.
To you perhaps. I feel that the syntactical change is unexpected.
But do you any objectsions to making this limited change? When the
EXPR of a return is a literal list, it should not have its comma
changed?
Will my proposal bleed into anything else in the language?
chaim
that's my block. For me the return takes away the thrust of the
outside scalar context.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
id perl4's and clearly I haven't run into something
that depended upon this.
I wonder how much it would hurt the -internals work.
I think I'm not alone in wanting to make the list/array dichotomy go away.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL
imple'.
And I can't imagine how this would work. Any statement could be interupted
with an exception, but there is no mechanism to restart.
This is just plain wrong.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, I
"JE" == Jon Ericson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
@foo = lazy grep
while( @foo ) { ... }
JE What does lazy grep do? How does this apply?
lazy would set the rest of arguments to be lazily evaluated. An iterator
that would call the function until the results are exhusted.
chaim
Please adjust that. My concern was for the parsing of some arbitrary
complex expression.
Hmm, I'll offer this as an alternative { hairy expression }
Then the parser can switch to block, and then discover it has to switch
the previously assumed less than into a oper
ines array should contain five elements.
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
rce-name = "new name with all other parts left alone";
$fh = open $resource-asNativeFormat()
Blech, but possible.
chaim
(Stolen parphrased but liberally from the Symbolics manual)
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Kn
e/stealing^wborrowing from sfio?)
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
d an error is returned. Is there anywhere to report it?
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
$_ = "etc\n"; /etc$/; # true
$_ = "etc"; /etc$/; # true
In what way is this _wrong_?
Is it under /m? But then wouldn't longest match cover the situation?
And doesn't it only trigger at the end of a string? Within the string
it
a frog $[1]"}
sub listargs { throw argsyntax, "odd arguments to listargs" }
Please do not do this.
It is a mess.
Action at a distance.
There are otherways to solve the same problem.
Why would anyone want to select a different method based upon the arguments.
The calling routine
be defered until
the first time it is called. (Unless Damian thinks that reaccessing
it each time will make more sense.)
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
to the RFC.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
^1 means $_[1], NOT $_[0]
[snip. Last message repeated too many times.]
If you have to do that, that is a good argument to follow the 'natural'
inclination.
Again, why insist on an index when it really is closer to an ordinal when
reading the actual code.
chaim
--
Cha
interface.
Architecture Layers that aren't native could be ported so that useful
modules could be easily used (for some value of easily).
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
And how about
continuations, generators and co-routines.
chaim
"CF" == Chaim Frenkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
CF Magic words.
CF Iterators
CF Reduce (e.g. $x = reduce { sum } @list;
CF Case/Switch
CF Make some of the unaddressable into first cla
"PC" == Piers Cawley [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
PC Chaim Frenkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And how about
continuations, generators and co-routines.
PC Now those'd be nice if they could be added without slowing down the
PC rest of perl.
(I didn't mention implementation)
I'd con
nly trying to follow along here; I'm also reading all
LW the books on computer languaes I can get my hands on--not just to look
LW for ideas to steal, but also to remind myself of the mindset Perl was
LW designed to escape.
Stolen any ideas from APL or J?
How about ICON?
chaim
--
Cha
S allowing continue on the outer sub block...
Because the pre, post, invariants should only be executed, if and only
if, the user requests it.
Further, they are _not_ part of the sub, they are an external contract
between the caller and the callee.
chaim
--
Cha
t to print to the default
BCW filehandle, (which is also implicit, I might add.)
No.
chaim
(Walks away shaking head, in wonder and amazement.)
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
his module, load that module, load the other
NT module'). Your criteria for moving to a module can't simply be
NT whether it's a system call or not, you must use something that takes
NT into account the hindrance and the payoff.
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Know
"GB" == Graham Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
GB On Tue, Aug 01, 2000 at 07:41:59PM -0700, Randal L. Schwartz wrote:
"Chaim" == Chaim Frenkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Chaim It's the overloading of the ',' operator.
Just like the overloading of the @ARRAY_NAME opera
"RLS" == Randal L Schwartz [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
"Chaim" == Chaim Frenkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Chaim It's the overloading of the ',' operator.
RLS Just like the overloading of the @ARRAY_NAME operator or the
RLS getpwuid() operator. Perhaps you are back to mere
is comment to claim that there would be no shared no
variables.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
ould catch the return value?
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
ter.
Just remember, Larry's dislike of making untainting easy.
I'd rather not have multiple characters. A option hash or even a longer
namespace would be more readable.
$Perl::Warnings{undef} = 1;
$Perl::Tainting = 1;
chaim
--
Chaim Frenkel
PRL The CS types may love it, but I'm a programmer and I don't.
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
SDhide() # I kinda like this one :-)
JSDshelve()# probably too loaded
JSDstow() # Just sit right back and you'll hear a tale ...
JSDbury() # Oh my god! They've killed Kenny!
JSD I've changed my mind; my personal favorite is now "hide"
olean context though!
DC Damian
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
eneral way of short-circuiting out of a grep
JH (and other list iterating funcs, if it makes sense...) We may
JH need both success and failure short-circuits? It's a pity 'last'
JH already has semantics there, not to mention return...
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear
s, turning on strict by default, or some of the other fundemental
operational changes are against the feel of perl. Not these additional
operations.
Anyway, keep in your hand.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL
etc., etc.
I vaguely recall that Larry was against this.
(I can't recall if it was ICON itself or the failure model, but then I
may very well mis-recall it.)
What would the failure model give us. (I read the ICON book a long
time ago.) Wouldn't it be a major departure from PERL as PERL.
chaim
s warning when this behaviour is used."
I think the point is to remove all deprecations. So adding a few seems
to be counter-productive. I think what is in the language on day 1
should be there for the long haul.
No excess baggage when leave on our journey.
cha
ical terms, but at
s least it means that sublists have some consistentcy in their charters
s and timelines, and that they all report back to the same place
s (-language).
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL
ve leanred)
MD from Perl 5, it's that this sort of global state variable is a
MD terrible idea regardless of what its name is.
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
his would help avoid the proliferation of uses. And let perl find the
right use. The only need for use would then be to customize the behavior.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
nt block. Whether we still set the
DS taint status on a scalar could depend on the -T switch, so data would still
DS be tainted in a no taint block.
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
n a module is installed
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
To invoke a
PRL coroutine, you write data to or read data from it.
PRL$y = |foo;
PRLprint |$x "hello, world\n";
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
ble to add a hint hook to the module (or the vtbl) that
would help optimization and the compiler.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
occurence
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
to zero, the two operands should be compared using the equivalent
PRL stringwise comparison operator.
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
' and '|'.)
Are you proposing that usage of numeric comparisons _will not_ change
the 'type' of the arguments?
(This should be an internals issue, but in perl5 it is a user visible
effect. RFC anyone?)
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMA
e ignoring the underlying false assumptions,
BL does not seem right.
BL What if you encounter a display device that correctly displays Hebrew
BL text from right to left?
BL --
BL Bart.
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL
nify perl reserved identifiers
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
print "$textvar\n";
EM Ever so much easier to read and write, prints the arg and appends \n.
EM Thank-You for consideration, great ideas I'm seeing here!
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
let you do this, or at
DS least a part of it for one or three ops, with a module. I think it might
DS be better to wait until the plain way's in and then embellish it later.
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL
ely returns the last reduction value
PRL (i.e. Cundef on the first reduction call, $_[0] otherwise)
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
"DS" == Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
DS At 01:33 PM 8/9/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
I don't think it will be a half million objects.
Let's take stat (and all the other long list returns). The underlying
implementation object could be a packed structure psuedoha
ontrary
LW notwithstanding.
LW Seems like all we're discussing now is how much those independent
LW documents should be independent (where the code itself is considered
LW one of the documents).
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL
fined $_[1] ? $_[0] + $_[1]
: defined $[0] ? $_[0] : $_[1] }
Pretty ugly.
And for the N case, it gets even uglier. So reduce should be able
to supply the next N-1 defined() values.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL
of
DS C. Nyah!")
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
next_token
or
$line = $TDIN;
$line = s/frobitz/knob/g;
$token = Perl::Lexer-push($line);
We can get real dirty here.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
e opposite
eval{}, to make it evaluate the arguments immediately.)
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
then:
DC non_lazy( a(), enervate(b()), c() );
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
atch {
JP # handle other exceptions
JP };
JP And it would look silly to use "otherwise" there.
JP You could make it so "catch" takes a list of 0 or more exception
JP class names.
JP --
JP John Porter
--
Chaim Frenkel
{ ... }
GB else { ... }
GB }
GB }
GB continue {
GB# code always executed (ie finally)
GB }
GB And the only new keywords are for the switch statement.
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL
E.g. let Net/FTP.pm post its debug
BT flag into $main::Net::FTP::Debug, and the list of exception classes
BT requested of Fatal.pm could be posted into @main::Fatal.
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
"GB" == Graham Barr [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
GB On Thu, Aug 10, 2000 at 04:34:50PM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
Nice.
The continue clause, I assume would re-raise an uncaught exception.
But, a big but. How does the 'else' clause indicate that the exception
was ha
foo's have the
same prototype? (Consider the singular foo case.)
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
ns -- Ckey and Cvalue -- to access the components of a pair.
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
eople will still try
ASstupid floating-point math tricks to get at the suberror code, but
ASat least we'll know they didn't read the bit in the documentation
ASwhere it will specifically warn _not_ to do this.
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, I
rtain data will not be aliased, etc, so that appropriate
JH optimisations can be done.
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
invariants.
Err, how does one differentiate between a 'good' entry and a 'bad' entry.
PC Note too that we don't need to do any case based magic, we can and
PC should use polymorphism for that.
Why? Just because?
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, I
"DS" == Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
DS At 10:58 AM 8/11/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
Someone on this list (TomC?) has supplied a major diatribe against const.
DS Maybe, but I don't see what's wrong with:
DS my $foo :const = 12;
DS A nice, named, lexically scope
is action-at-distance
of the worst stripe.
Its the cheap and dirty way of doing OO. Let the object determine the
calling convention for the method. I see very little reason to have
two methods with different signatures.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Know
RL =head1 TITLE
PRL Rename @ARGV to @ARGS
PRL =head1 VERSION
PRLMaintainer: Nathan Wiger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PRLDate: 11 Aug 2000
PRLVersion: 1
PRLStatus: Developing
PRLMailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PRLNumber:
PRL 94
PRL Perl isn't C. Time to get over it. :-)
"NW" == Nathan Wiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
NW Also, how about just $@-id? Shorter and I would argue the "unique_" is
NW really redundant (id's are usually unique, hence the name
NW "identifiers").
Not really.
Consider: Chaim is an identifier. But not un
OTHERFH\n";
print STDOOUT "This went to STDOUT\n";
STDOUT is _not_ the default filehandle. It is the currently selected
filehandle when perl starts.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
ue.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
others use their own epochs (MacPerl uses 1904, for
PRL example).
PRL All versions of Perl on all platforms should maintain time both
PRL internally and externally as seconds since the UNIX epoch (00:00:00 01
PRL Jan 1970 UTC).
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Know
one point in perl's life
defined(@arr) was false before anything was assigned to the array.
At this point this is highly frowned upon.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
hole array @a, not an iteration
MC over its elements. If I want to iterate over @a, I should have to do so
MC explicitly, with a for() or map().
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
o the past : to past January 1st or July 1st, whichever is
BB closer.
Sorry, this makes no sense.
BB Leap-seconds are a PITA for generic time routines.
Why?
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL
hen you're not looking is dangerous.
Not unless you are coming from a math background or are an old basic
programmer, and would like to have matrix operations built in.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL
"MC" == Mark Cogan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
is equivalent to
@a = (\$a, \$b, \$c);
rather than what you wrote.
MC Ah, so it is. I'd argue that that's broken and should be handled with map
MC or for.
Err, That's not an accident. Larry designed that in.
chaim
--
Cha
. $STDOUT should always mean one and only one file at a time.
Unless one wants to have a $DEFAULT filehandle and get rid of single
arg select.
chaim
"JSD" == Jonathan Scott Duff [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
JSD On Tue, Aug 15, 2000 at 06:53:30PM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
What if you wan
or calculating what the instanataneous time will be will not work.
But your blurb would be a lie. How would one ensure the correct
difference to the TAI? And what would be the translation to the
system time?
What do we do with stat(), utime(), sleep(), select(), events, etc.
cha
comes out, perhaps the situation would be better.
(Now, if we add all that APL symbols ...)
Thoughts?
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] +1-718-236-0183
program same system will break.
Pick your poison. I'd rather have cross system break. But if the
epoch were available then an adjustment could be made intellegently.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
1 - 100 of 147 matches
Mail list logo
