to
*EXCEPTION_HANDLER:
multi cont (Exception::Control::Redo) {
body.goto(*$current_binding_tuple);
}
multi cont (Exception::Control::Next) {
...
}
--
() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED
if 'use fatal' is
optional, though.
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not have enough policy on event handling. The
only level which really knows how to behave under any event
(hopefully ;-) is the user.
Just some thoughts ...
Good post!
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.
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.
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On Mon, Sep 26, 2005 at 17:40:52 +0100, Piers Cawley wrote:
Luke Palmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On 9/25/05, Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I propose a new model - each exception has a continuation that
allows it to be unfatalized.
I think we've already talked about something
tend to confuse these ;-)
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;-)
The thread asks whether disabling strong and compile-time-angry type
ineferencing should ever be disabled, since we have much better
allomorphism-oriented support for typing and introspection.
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/survey2005-summary.html
It mentions both that there are active areas of research on how to
make these better, and that GHC messages both suck and don't suck at
the same time.
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on a case by case basis for the purpose of enhancing
readability.
On top of that there is the fact that perl 5 people come to expect
that ($foo) means (.$foo), except that the first version is
easier to read.
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,
which will then continue into the failed open.
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to
propagate out of the fatalized block.
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On Sun, Sep 25, 2005 at 18:11:22 +0300, Yuval Kogman wrote:
In order to support continuable exception generators, here is a
style guide for exception values, and an observation on what
exceptions should support at the language level:
And more...
* Exception strings are for humans
Humans need
the last CATCH block that was relevant, in this case
the only one. This one finds the continuation to * 3 etc in the
exception object, and effectively augments the result of
infix:/(1, 0) to be 9 instead of an undefined value.
I hope this makes things clear.
--
() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED
rigid type
semantics for that block? If so, how is this defined?
On the other side of the spectrum, is there any situation where type
safety is ever a bad thing, if it's inferred, and flexible?
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of the Localizable role, and it would return a Str.
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. My claim is
that just as you know the kind of error it is when you explicitly
catch it for the purpose of reporting, you have the same knowlege
when you are fixing.
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by
inferrencing?
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shouldn't make too easy?
It should be made very easy - this encourages reuse of calling code,
not only callee code.
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it should even without the parens... isn't the sigil
enough to make it clear? is just like $ in this respect
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bufferred unless the programmer specifically requested
otherwise sounds a lot like perl 5 and $| ;-)
I think that Perl 6 needs more than this to be smarter about IO
buffering, but I'm not sure I want it to be.
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to readability
These are two advantages that the construct has over wrapping the
code in a new sub.
(I'd actually prefer something like:
Your example is only WRT data composition... I was actually doing
conditional side effects.
--
() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
On Wed, Sep 21, 2005 at 09:54:33 -0400, Mark Reed wrote:
Watch the attributions, please. I didn't write the above text - Juerd did.
Sorry, I must have gotten confused when I was snipping
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, or synonyms for the control
structure naming?
BTW, I expect readability to be optimal with 1-2 lines of pre/post,
and 1-5 lines of middle. Any observations?
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() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
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... ;
if ($bool) {
pre
}
mid
if ($bool) {
post
}
2: if the middle part does something that changes the value of the
expression $condition then the new construct again has a different meaning.
Err, that's the point
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() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
On Tue, Sep 20, 2005 at 14:31:07 -0400, Mark Reed wrote:
On 2005-09-20 14:23, Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, Sep 20, 2005 at 18:19:42 +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2: if the middle part does something that changes the value of the
expression $condition then the new
to part the list and iterate the two
result sets asynchronously. With a push model you give your handler
results as they come in, and it gobbles them up in the background as
it sees fit (chunked, as fast as possible, with a delay loop...
whatever).
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() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418
On Tue, Sep 13, 2005 at 02:08:47 +0300, Yuval Kogman wrote:
A proof of concept is available here:
and has been updated here:
http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/perl5/Blondie/
There's a bit of documentation, and the code is split up into files
and ever so slightly refactored
). This is highly dependant
on the capabilities of the runtime.
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On Mon, Sep 12, 2005 at 13:15:33 +0300, Yuval Kogman wrote:
To make things safe, when the prelude is bug fixed and the runtime
is not yet updated, the cryptographic hash of the function changed,
so it is no longer equal to the native one based on the way they are
paired.
It should be noted
On Mon, Sep 12, 2005 at 13:15:33 +0300, Yuval Kogman wrote:
The circularity issue was not made clear in the email or the
diagram. Here is what I meant:
The prelude operators are mutually recursive at some point, and
completely pure. An pathetic example:
multi infix:- (Int $x, Int $y
A proof of concept is available here:
http://svn.openfoundry.org/pugs/docs/notes/circular_prelude_stuff.pl
And logs where I explain the guts to Luke are availble here:
http://colabti.de/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6?date=2005-09-12,Monsel=785#l1413
--
() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED
On Mon, Sep 12, 2005 at 13:27:21 -0600, Luke Palmer wrote:
On 9/12/05, Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi,
Hi. These are superficial thoughts, before I've had time to really
think about the Big Picture.
2. each block of code has a cryptographic digest, which is the hash
= map { pop @params } 1 .. $?SELF.arity;
$?SELF.bind_params(@bound_params);
}
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calls infix:* on
# it's operand, somehow... What happens?
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On Thu, Sep 01, 2005 at 17:12:51 +, Luke Palmer wrote:
On 9/1/05, Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 13:43:57 -0600, Luke Palmer wrote:
Uh yeah, I think that's what I was saying. To clarify:
sub foo (prefix:+) { 1 == 2 }# 1 and 2 in numeric
On Sat, Sep 03, 2005 at 11:45:33 +0300, Yuval Kogman wrote a lot.
I'd like to summarize:
* if operators are not special than they are defined in perl 6
(maybe)
* if operators are defined in terms of other operators, then
overriding an operator may interfere
variant has arity.
I'd say it 'fail's.
To get the arity you must tell it which variant yyou mean, either by
providing enough of the prototype, eg
foo(Any).arity vs foo(Any, Any).arity
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() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
/\ kung foo master
... I meant
that.
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On Fri, Sep 02, 2005 at 09:24:52 +0200, Juerd wrote:
sub foo (@bar) { ... }
foo $aref;
Here $aref is dereferenced because of the Array context. The scalar
can't do this by itself, of course.
my @bar := $aref;
--
() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl
printed
Luke
Furthermore, even if:
sub infix:== ($x, $y) { +$x == +$y }
sub foo (prefix:+) { 1 == 2 }
foo(say); # nothing printed
but if
sub foo (*prefix:+) { 1 == 2 }
then what?
--
() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 04:56:25 -0600, Luke Palmer wrote:
(That is, lexically binding prefix:+ does not change things in
numeric context; only when there's actually a + in front of them)
Unless you override prefix:+ ?
sub foo (prefix:+) { +1 }
--
() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED
. But that is an implementation issue.
Conceptually I like to define the semantics of Perl6 in terms of type
and dispatch.
I thought so too, but then i was informed that both assignment and
method call dispatch are not operators.
--
() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
/\ kung foo
a broken record, i think not
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that s/eqv/==/;, but everyone hates that.
I fully agree that the number of standard Comparers should be kept
small---that is close to three, not counting ~~ as a Comparer but
as (the only) Matcher.
I'm glad that you guys think so too =)
--
() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl
On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 15:12:44 +0200, TSa wrote:
HaloO,
Yuval Kogman wrote:
On Mon, Aug 29, 2005 at 13:12:37 +0200, TSa wrote:
Sorry, I believe everything is an operator---or actually operators
are Code subtypes with syntactic sugar. But some operators are usually
not dispatched because
yadda ?
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{
$index_x{ $thing.x_value }.insert($thing);
$index_y{ $thing.y_value }.insert($thing);
$index_z{ $thing.z_value }.insert($thing);
}
which makes the 'x_value' etc calls much more obvious, and thus good
for readability.
--
() Yuval Kogman
);
but this doesn't really scale:
my ( $val1, $val2, $val3, $val4 ) =
foo(bar 1, 2, 3, 4 , baz)
we have soome variants:
1, 3
1, 4
2, 3
2, 4
but the return of which pair goes into which value?
--
() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED
).
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On Sun, Aug 28, 2005 at 05:18:42 -0400, David Storrs wrote:
On Aug 28, 2005, at 5:12 AM, Yuval Kogman wrote:
On Sun, Aug 28, 2005 at 05:02:25 -0400, David Storrs wrote:
nested_call.wrap(), maybe?
It's not 100% the same thing... Wrapping is for wrapping only. This
applies to super methods
On Sun, Aug 28, 2005 at 05:02:25 -0400, David Storrs wrote:
nested_call.wrap(), maybe?
It's not 100% the same thing... Wrapping is for wrapping only. This
applies to super methods, delegate methods, and so forth.
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reply:
http://colabti.de/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6?date=2005-08-28,Sunsel=281#l460
Bottom line: the aim is to change the meaning.
--
() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
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as a parameter or returned from a call, and the
boundry is not marked 'is rw', then the list doesn't have the same
nested containers anymore. I think that furthermore, even if it's
optimized to not duplicate read only containers that were flattenned
into it, they are still not the same id.
--
() Yuval
]) := foo();
for this I think we need an easier solution... Perhaps flattenning
foo instead of adding a slurp, or making yadda yadda in lvalue throw
it's arguments away silently:
my ($foo, $bar, ...) := foo();
--
() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
to do that you could say:
pop @bar; @foo's last elem still exist
$bar[0]; # @foo's first elem *is* changed
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, and
then the array is fused back together into one contiguous structure.
I would expect it to delete.
* What happens if the array becomes tied (or was already)?
Tying is like binding to IType-new, so i think all ties are lost.
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this:
foo(named(my $x = :foobah));
foo(pair(my $x = :foobah));
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On Thu, Aug 25, 2005 at 11:16:56 -, David Formosa (aka ? the Platypus)
wrote:
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:13:03 +0300, Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[...]
perl6 creates a new instance of the perl compiler (presumably an
object). The compiler will only compile the actual file
SomeModule's runtime symbols into
it, to ensure that no other version of SomeModule can affect
foo.pl's emitted code. This can be a recursive or non recursive
process.
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.
if [1,2,3].snap eqv [1,2,3].snap { say true } else { say false }
I think the opposite is better, make snapshotting by default, and
mutable value equality false by saying
[1, 2, 3] eqv [1, 2, 3] :always # or :forever
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() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl
for symbols, including constantness, return
values, and so forth).
PHEW, THAT WAS LONG.
Sorry!
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//= ...;
}
}
Which is just as much headache that we had to do in perl 5.
Also, lazifying semantics are consistent with
sub infix:|| ($left, $right is delayed) {
$left ?? $left :: ** $right; # can you steamroll a scalar?
}
--
() Yuval Kogman
) {
@l op @r
}
op.add_mmd_variant(apply_to_arrays.assuming(op);
}
for (infix:~~ infix:==) extend_comparators;
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?
my augmented = comparator; # a copy
Prelude::extend_comparators(augmented);
augmented($a, $b);
}
And have your interface wrap around this behavior.
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() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
/\ kung foo master: /me
if you call it in undifferentiated scalar
context:
$x = $y || lazy { z() }
Yes, I didn't think about that... This is lazyness stacking though,
I think.
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() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
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On Tue, Aug 23, 2005 at 10:28:01 -0700, Larry Wall wrote:
On Tue, Aug 23, 2005 at 06:19:33PM +0300, Yuval Kogman wrote:
: 10 == 10; # dispatches to Str, due to better match
Nope, that will continue to coerce to numeric comparison. The design
team did in fact consider pure equivalence
of the implementation, so I'm not worried
either way. If you're interested I can dig up a chat log where
autrijus and I argue over this a bit.
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(Acme::Don't, anyone?) is
obund to pop up, and then it'll be just inconsistent.
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On Sun, Aug 21, 2005 at 12:11:17 +, Ingo Blechschmidt wrote:
Hi,
Yuval Kogman nothingmuch at woobling.org writes:
But we should note that some backends don't generate meaningful
ASTs, simply because they don't convert PIL - target language
AST - target language, but PIL - target
function is applied regardless of type (resulting in coercion or
a fatal error).
--
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is whether we want to serialize, and
what parts we would like to serialize when we do.
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. That little bit is this ability:
my @args = (1, 2, 3, foo = 'bar');
baz([EMAIL PROTECTED]); # $foo gets argument 'bar'
To be honest, I don't see how that is a feature, this strengthens my
support for demagicalizing.
--
() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
$object : ;
But I think that kinda sucks for
new Dog; # uh, didn't you mean 'new Dog:;'?
And I personally never ever liked it in in signatures.
I would much rather see it go away, frankly, and let the issues be
resolved by simplifying the OOP system. *cough*, *cough*.
--
() Yuval
, and the moment things
get closed (no more MMD alternatives are possible), if your
dispatches don't have any MMD candiates it's just as much a type
error as a normal sub with a bad type.
--
() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
/\ kung foo master: *shu*rik*en*sh*u*rik*en
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 12:24:40 +, Ingo Blechschmidt wrote:
Hi,
Yuval Kogman nothingmuch at woobling.org writes:
So now that the skeptics can see why this is important, on the
design side I'd like to ask for ideas on how the code serialization
looks...
sub
that this will be the case any time
in the forseeable future, but it's runtime and GC dependant, and
there are other solutions, this is just one.
--
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to post order happen
before the class's finalizer).
I'm not sure that replacing the GC is going to be easy, I expect
thats going to involve heavy magic.
If the runtime has an interface where it allows you to replace the
GC with some pluggable GCs it supports, then why not?
--
() Yuval Kogman
),
# and apply it to the invocant, returning a float
}
There, no ambiguity.
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,
$credit_card_expiration,
$credit_card_holder_name
) {
}
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and the browser is clear
and distinct, and calls between the two are done by
explicitly invoking one runtime from the other
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, if it didn't say it needed
# timely destruction
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On Mon, Aug 15, 2005 at 15:59:34 +0100, Adrian Howard wrote:
On 15 Aug 2005, at 13:17, Yuval Kogman wrote:
I'm not sure what you're proposing here. A separate arena for
stuff you want to allocate and not be moved by the GC? How would
I tell the compiler?
You won't, the language glue
() {
$*RUNTIME.Memory.GarbageCollector.dispose($*RUNTIME,
:recursive(1));
}
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the path it was opened
with, it's mode, it's position in a seekable file, it's modes, and
the only thing which is truely unserializable is the file descriptor
itself. The object could be semi-useful under unsafe serialization
if the user wants that.
--
() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418
But maybe that's worth being dehuffmanized like that...
Haskell has !! :
sub infix:!! (Pair $x, 0) { $x.key }
sub infix:!! (Pair $x, Int $index) { $x.value !! ($index - 1) }
--
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/\ kung foo master: /me supports the ASCII Ribbon
, and then everything is
cleaned up in the background.
--
() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
/\ kung foo master: /me beats up some cheese: neeyah!
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the syntax is different
Anywho, I like your proposal, but i'd like some even fresher ideas
into pack and unpack, so i'm just trying to kick the thread
around...
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() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
/\ kung foo master: /me kicks %s on the nose: neeyah
my @a is Array of (Item is GC::timely);
and containers themselves without respect to their contained:
my @a is Array is GC::timely
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() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
/\ kung foo master: /me dodges cabbages like macalypse log N: neeyah
in the dom, we
# can get it, and it doesn't matter if we're running on
# javascript or parrot embedded in mozilla
}
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() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
/\ kung foo master: /me groks YAML like the grasshopper: neeyah
...
Pair
Junction
int, str, ...
where any of these can also 'do' Junctive.
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() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
/\ kung foo master: /me tips over a cow: neeyah!!
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written one Just Works™ in the face of atomic { }.
Does that seem relevant to the point you were making?
Yes =)
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() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
/\ kung foo master: /methinks long and hard, and runs away: neeyah!!!
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On Mon, Jul 18, 2005 at 15:16:16 +1200, Sam Vilain wrote:
Yuval Kogman wrote:
everyone gets to choose, and another thing I have in mind is the
Transactional role...
DBI::Handle does Transactional;
To the STM rollbacker and type checker thingy this means that any IO
performed by DBI
.
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() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
/\ kung foo master: /methinks long and hard, and runs away: neeyah!!!
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in p6 seems to be going.
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() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
/\ kung foo master: /me tips over a cow: neeyah!!
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On Fri, Jul 15, 2005 at 10:01:43 +0800, Autrijus Tang wrote:
On Fri, Jul 15, 2005 at 02:38:22AM +0300, Yuval Kogman wrote:
As I see it == is the generic comparison, and 'eq' is == with
coercing parameters (in Haskell it'd be
eq :: (Show a) = a - a - Bool or so... Isn't that lovely
On Thu, Jul 14, 2005 at 18:06:24 -0700, Dave Whipp wrote:
Yuval Kogman wrote:
- optimizers stack on top of each other
- the output of each one is executable
- optimizers work in a coroutine, and are preemptable
- optimizers are small
- optimizers operate
for the post being
so chaotic.
Ciao!
[1] http://lambda.org/
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() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
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explicit types I'd like DBI to be able to leverage these, too.
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() Yuval Kogman [EMAIL PROTECTED] 0xEBD27418 perl hacker
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