direct
machine calls.
chaim
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reload itself, but without the -S and -I
commands the runtime environment is not fully reflected. And if running
under -T the enviornment is not trusted.)
Is there something there already?
chaim
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imple'.
And I can't imagine how this would work. Any statement could be interupted
with an exception, but there is no mechanism to restart.
This is just plain wrong.
chaim
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^1 means $_[1], NOT $_[0]
[snip. Last message repeated too many times.]
If you have to do that, that is a good argument to follow the 'natural'
inclination.
Again, why insist on an index when it really is closer to an ordinal when
reading the actual code.
chaim
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Cha
to the RFC.
chaim
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ally looks at the value of $@
eval { ... }
$@ !~ //;
Why not make it simpler
eval { }
$@ !~ any( ); # Damian's Superpositions.
# I keep reading Superstition :-)
chaim
--
Cha
$_ = "etc\n"; /etc$/; # true
$_ = "etc"; /etc$/; # true
In what way is this _wrong_?
Is it under /m? But then wouldn't longest match cover the situation?
And doesn't it only trigger at the end of a string? Within the string
it
don't think we want to start up a IANA.
The $@-facility, $@-id pair could be considered unique for non-core
errors.
chaim
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the message or even making the error string
localizable.
Consider allowing perl to emit error messages in French, Latin, or
Klingon without breaking the code.
chaim
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used.
PRL The semantic is enhanced as much as possible under this constaint.
PRL Additional changes to pack/unpack are listed in other proposals.
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the header or before the first line, and just after the
last or before the footer.
I must of missed it but what is the mechanism to force a page break?
And is there a way of keeping a format emission either together or
to allow them to be spread across a page break? (keep together/ widow
contr
y integers
if they are in the wrong endiness the bits get flipped properly.
un so weiter.
chaim
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me programming task a bit more straightforward.
chaim
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"JP" == John Porter [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
JP Chaim Frenkel wrote:
Removing -1 as a valid result, could be a breakage (if someone is
doing something weird with a negative result)
JP What, like using it as an index into a substr?
JP Bad Code is its own reward,
ts.
chaim
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variable(s) to watch
range = qw(name other)
footer = "$From{name} - $To{name}";
Would it be worthwhile to have a quick and dirty way of having the
formatter determine the max width and then allow the header/footer
to simply indicate left|center|right
rpolate.
Something akin to:
$x = eval "$x" while $x =~ /[$@]/;
But more intelligent.
chaim
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generator allowing reseting or extraction of the next number via rand
=item rand EXPR, RANDGEN_REF
=item rand EXPR
=item rand
chaim
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xceptional and quite common scenerios is bothersome.
chaim
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otten very confused.
chaim
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f you want to adjust for timezones just calculate the constant. Which
since you are giving it in HHMM format you might as well just calculate
directly.
So what am I missing.
chaim
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"NT" == Nathan Torkington [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
NT Chaim Frenkel writes:
Somehow I find
if (40 == ($foo = substr($bar, index($bar, 'xyz' {
}
NT I don't understand your hypothetical code. substr() returns the
NT substring of $bar from the position retutned by index, onwar
'), 20); # Returns undef
If this is too much breakage what about only if it is the argument?
$foo = "flabergasted";
$x = index($foo, 'abc');
substr($foo, $x, 20); # starts from the end
chaim
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ing in SQL.
chaim
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" valid?
Would it be possible to make push(%hash, @keys) work? Doesn't look likely
is @keys the keys, the values, or both?
chaim
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-circuiting.
yield EXPR - stop what I am doing now and give something else a
a chance to do its things. And while you are doing
that please take this EXPR from me.
chaim
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stributive?
@c = @a - @b;
@c = @a + @b;
@c = @a * @b; # cross product ?
I'm not understaning your position. I could have used such an operation
rather than rolling my own. And a module would be too heavy handed for
such a simple concept.
chaim
--
Cha
d but none whatsoever
RP for auto-newline-on-output (even if you could decide when to send it).
Use this all the time. perl -wl (or #!/usr/local/bin/perl -wl)
It autochomps and then adds back the newline on the way out. Great for
one liners, and in general when doing line at a time filter
processing.
chaim
a
regex operation, one or the other wouldn't have to be populated.)
Thoughts?
chaim
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is a block and not
an anon-hash?
chaim
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"AS" == Ariel Scolnicov [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
AS Chaim Frenkel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
yield EXPR - stop what I am doing now and give something else a
a chance to do its things. And while you are doing
that please take this EXPR from me.
AS When you put it this way, is
rk is conserved")
but one is more efficient in terms of the user's brainpower.
chaim
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rations to
avoid redoing known work. And I've used hashes simply because I have
no other 'lazy' choice. But the code becomes harder to read.
From a conceptual level, when looking at the code (not the surrounding
application) I'm no longer working with the data, but rather with a
side ef
management part. Which could probably be boiled down to
converting the hash key into a bit.
chaim
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n language design of why pop and push,
shift and unshift are in, but union and intersection are not.
chaim
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"DC" == Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
DC I *still* think it should be "unmerge"! ;-)
Hrmpf. It should be reshape.
(Which would be its own inverse and saves a keyword.)
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Knowledge, I
ll/program, but a simple 'standard'
method might be worthwhile.
use perlrc qw(:system :user);
Though the range of options and settings are probably so vast that
a single module capable of handling all scenerios would be so large
and slow that all gains would be lost just in the invocation.
chaim
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Cha
hing about the block not being a loop, I think.
chaim
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ring:
Why not spell it 'yield'?
It seems to have all the right connotations.
A sort of soft return. Gives of itself. Very polite.
chaim
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ch less
NT useful).
Then how would one get the distributed effect? An apply operator?
chaim
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extra set of parenthesis could do the flattening. (only one list
is 'visible' as the argument to the for.
chaim
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"DC" == Damian Conway [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
my_while { pred() } { # don't gimme no Tcl flac.
...
} # no semicolon needed here!
DC Just added to the RFC :-)
How would the parser handle this? Some '}' would need ';' some don't.
chaim
--
Cha
th
PS scratching this hard, but it seemed like a good direction :-( Anyone got
PS any brilliant ideas before I withdraw it?
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d an error is returned. Is there anywhere to report it?
chaim
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that's my block. For me the return takes away the thrust of the
outside scalar context.
chaim
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id perl4's and clearly I haven't run into something
that depended upon this.
I wonder how much it would hurt the -internals work.
I think I'm not alone in wanting to make the list/array dichotomy go away.
chaim
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reference to the hash named as an argument. The reference-taking:
NT * permits them to change the data structures
NT * is faster (one value, not all the key/value pairs)
What if keys were extended to operate on arrays? Then keys $foo might
be an acceptable extension.
chaim
--
Cha
pletely
TC expected.
To you perhaps. I feel that the syntactical change is unexpected.
But do you any objectsions to making this limited change? When the
EXPR of a return is a literal list, it should not have its comma
changed?
Will my proposal bleed into anything else in the language?
chaim
change. I simply want that return (I'm not sure
how to phrase this) be able to return only a scalar or an aggregate.
It should be immune from having a scalar context pushed through from
the caller and change the commas from a list seperator into the comma
operator.
chaim
--
Cha
as to have protection. If you want the variable to be shared
declare it.
SWM Example 3: Closures (Ken's example)
Aha, I get it. -internals has been assuming that one _must_ specify
the sharing. You want it to be infered.
I think that's asking for too much DWIMery.
chaim
--
Cha
(7,8,9,10) }
$x = fn(); # $x == 10
chaim
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yntax,
JSD but I like the idea. If everything become objects under-the-hood,
JSD then we could have:
JSDfor $a (@array) { print "$a is at $a-index\n"; }
JSD No, I'm not wild about that either, but it's an idea.
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Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Kn
see a possible issue
print EOF;# or 'EOF'
The following is not the end
EOF
But this one is
EOF
Though I don't really see a very good use for having trailing invisible
characters.
chaim
--
Chaim Frenkel
d if every thread has to recompile all its own modules.
SWM We could either discuss alternate approaches for RFC1, or I could
SWM submit a new RFC for a thread architecture that gives me the
SWM performance I want.
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}) = split;
}
Damian, You have coroutines/generators out there. What about a data sink?
Anything you have currently proposed that would do this neatly.
chaim
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nd.
Would having a time object that is understood by perl be sufficient?
It would smell and taste like an integer but would otherwise be
magical.
chaim
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he actual victim may not be the primal
cause.
sub foo {
my $fh = open();
... Lots more code ...
return $fh;
}
$victim = foo;
print $victim "I'm helpless";
chaim
--
Chaim Frenkel
Not a nice attitude. The failure is not close to the cause. Neither in
time or space.
If it were closer to the open, at least an intellegent message might
be displayed. Your way, nothing but.
*ARRGGHHH*, tainted data, in Foo.pl at line 37 chunk 12
(Why does that remind me of rogue?)
cha
be to have it become
# $foo=1 $baz=2 @bar=(4)
*blech*, I'm glad that you're doing the thinking.
chaim
"LW" == Larry Wall [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
LW Chaim Frenkel writes:
LW : LW P.S. I think we *could* let @foo and %bar return an object ref in scalar
LW :
rrently do in scalar context.
Isn't this an internals issue?
chaim
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s for core functions. And optional for module authors.
Then Fatal.pm and exception.pm could possibly be consolidated.
chaim
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be defered until
the first time it is called. (Unless Damian thinks that reaccessing
it each time will make more sense.)
chaim
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et the user know why.
That selects either a non-local goto or a return mechanism depending upon
context. (Dynamically within the control of a try/eval, or under pragmatic
control requesting the non-local mechanism.)
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Kn
"PS" == Peter Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
PS At 07:00 PM 8/16/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
Perhaps, throw can carry a return value?
throw {"return value"} $exception;
If there is an active try/catch context then the $exception would
be propogated, otherwise
"PS" == Peter Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
PS At 07:10 PM 8/16/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
"PS" == Peter Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
PS 1. When an exception is thrown perl looks for the enclosing try block; if
PS there is none then program death ensues.
Err
"MC" == Mark Cogan [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
is equivalent to
@a = (\$a, \$b, \$c);
rather than what you wrote.
MC Ah, so it is. I'd argue that that's broken and should be handled with map
MC or for.
Err, That's not an accident. Larry designed that in.
chaim
--
Cha
. $STDOUT should always mean one and only one file at a time.
Unless one wants to have a $DEFAULT filehandle and get rid of single
arg select.
chaim
"JSD" == Jonathan Scott Duff [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
JSD On Tue, Aug 15, 2000 at 06:53:30PM -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
What if you wan
or calculating what the instanataneous time will be will not work.
But your blurb would be a lie. How would one ensure the correct
difference to the TAI? And what would be the translation to the
system time?
What do we do with stat(), utime(), sleep(), select(), events, etc.
cha
comes out, perhaps the situation would be better.
(Now, if we add all that APL symbols ...)
Thoughts?
chaim
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program same system will break.
Pick your poison. I'd rather have cross system break. But if the
epoch were available then an adjustment could be made intellegently.
chaim
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't strip the leading whitespace.
chaim
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mm, I feel an RFC coming on
my @arr :low(-32000) :high(+32000);
my @population :low(1900) :high(2039);
$population[1923] = 323000;
How about
my @population[1900:2039];
Looks funny though.
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear
at Larry has already semi-blessed the attribute
version.
The problem with the prefix version is that that is already reserved for
my/our/local.
And constant-ness in my mind is an attribute or modifer of the value
or perhaps of the container. It has no bearing on the scoping or type
of the val
ell the author.
You are limited by what the author wrote.
chaim
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"CN" == Chris Nandor [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
CN Can we please cut down on the traffic to perl-announce, maybe make it
CN moderated? Thanks,
Perhaps, the esteemed Librarian could make the -announce a Bcc?
chaim
--
Chaim FrenkelNonlinear
ease.
$SIG{DIE} should die. Action at a distance. Global. Can't know what
other threads or modules want done here.
chaim
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OTHERFH\n";
print STDOOUT "This went to STDOUT\n";
STDOUT is _not_ the default filehandle. It is the currently selected
filehandle when perl starts.
chaim
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ue.
chaim
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others use their own epochs (MacPerl uses 1904, for
PRL example).
PRL All versions of Perl on all platforms should maintain time both
PRL internally and externally as seconds since the UNIX epoch (00:00:00 01
PRL Jan 1970 UTC).
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Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Know
one point in perl's life
defined(@arr) was false before anything was assigned to the array.
At this point this is highly frowned upon.
chaim
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hole array @a, not an iteration
MC over its elements. If I want to iterate over @a, I should have to do so
MC explicitly, with a for() or map().
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o the past : to past January 1st or July 1st, whichever is
BB closer.
Sorry, this makes no sense.
BB Leap-seconds are a PITA for generic time routines.
Why?
chaim
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hen you're not looking is dangerous.
Not unless you are coming from a math background or are an old basic
programmer, and would like to have matrix operations built in.
chaim
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s, as
part of the core, we will have to live with whatever the system
libraries give us.
(I don't want to think about Leap Seconds just yet.)
chaim
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the object, then in the class for
PS uncaught_handler.
PS I think it's cool how this process is converging :-)
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a frog $[1]"}
sub listargs { throw argsyntax, "odd arguments to listargs" }
Please do not do this.
It is a mess.
Action at a distance.
There are otherways to solve the same problem.
Why would anyone want to select a different method based upon the arguments.
The calling routine
rce-name = "new name with all other parts left alone";
$fh = open $resource-asNativeFormat()
Blech, but possible.
chaim
(Stolen parphrased but liberally from the Symbolics manual)
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Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Kn
e/stealing^wborrowing from sfio?)
chaim
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eople will still try
ASstupid floating-point math tricks to get at the suberror code, but
ASat least we'll know they didn't read the bit in the documentation
ASwhere it will specifically warn _not_ to do this.
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rtain data will not be aliased, etc, so that appropriate
JH optimisations can be done.
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invariants.
Err, how does one differentiate between a 'good' entry and a 'bad' entry.
PC Note too that we don't need to do any case based magic, we can and
PC should use polymorphism for that.
Why? Just because?
chaim
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"DS" == Dan Sugalski [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
DS At 10:58 AM 8/11/00 -0400, Chaim Frenkel wrote:
Someone on this list (TomC?) has supplied a major diatribe against const.
DS Maybe, but I don't see what's wrong with:
DS my $foo :const = 12;
DS A nice, named, lexically scope
is action-at-distance
of the worst stripe.
Its the cheap and dirty way of doing OO. Let the object determine the
calling convention for the method. I see very little reason to have
two methods with different signatures.
chaim
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Chaim FrenkelNonlinear Know
RL =head1 TITLE
PRL Rename @ARGV to @ARGS
PRL =head1 VERSION
PRLMaintainer: Nathan Wiger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PRLDate: 11 Aug 2000
PRLVersion: 1
PRLStatus: Developing
PRLMailing List: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
PRLNumber:
PRL 94
PRL Perl isn't C. Time to get over it. :-)
"NW" == Nathan Wiger [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
NW Also, how about just $@-id? Shorter and I would argue the "unique_" is
NW really redundant (id's are usually unique, hence the name
NW "identifiers").
Not really.
Consider: Chaim is an identifier. But not un
overhead.
chaim
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ines array should contain five elements.
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then:
DC non_lazy( a(), enervate(b()), c() );
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atch {
JP # handle other exceptions
JP };
JP And it would look silly to use "otherwise" there.
JP You could make it so "catch" takes a list of 0 or more exception
JP class names.
JP --
JP John Porter
--
Chaim Frenkel
{ ... }
GB else { ... }
GB }
GB }
GB continue {
GB# code always executed (ie finally)
GB }
GB And the only new keywords are for the switch statement.
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