Merlin,
Not completely. HS is in much better shape than win32 was when it was
pulled from 7.4...the build system wasn't even in place yet nor any of
the major challenges solved (like fork/exec).
HS is working very well (Simon's ongoing work aside). I am pretty
confident based on my personal
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 2:36 PM, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote:
All,
So, some feedback to make this decision more difficult:
Users: care about HS more than anything else in the world. I'm convinced
that if we took a staw poll, 80% of our users would be in favor of waiting
for HS.
All,
1) having the last CF on Nov. 1 was a mistake. That put us square in the
path of the US Christian holidays during the critical integration phase ..
which means we haven't really had 3 months of integration, we've had *two*.
Actually, I'm thinking about this again, and made a mistake
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com writes:
So, some feedback to make this decision more difficult:
Users: care about HS more than anything else in the world.
I don't think this is correct. There are certainly a lot of users who
would like an in-core replication solution, but HS by itself is not
Merlin Moncure mmonc...@gmail.com writes:
HS is working very well (Simon's ongoing work aside). I am pretty
confident based on my personal testing that it would represent the
project well if committed today.
I think a lot of people weren't aware there was anybody testing this patch
other
On 1/26/09, Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com wrote:
All,
1) having the last CF on Nov. 1 was a mistake. That put us square in the
path of the US Christian holidays during the critical integration phase
..
which means we haven't really had 3 months of integration, we've had
*two*.
Actually,
On 1/26/09, Gregory Stark st...@enterprisedb.com wrote:
Merlin Moncure mmonc...@gmail.com writes:
HS is working very well (Simon's ongoing work aside). I am pretty
confident based on my personal testing that it would represent the
project well if committed today.
I think a lot of
Gregory Stark st...@enterprisedb.com writes:
Here's a thought experiment. If it was committable *today* would we be
willing to go with it and plan to release with it? Assume that it
would *still* mean a longer beta process, so it would still mean
releasing in, say April instead of February or
On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 20:12 +, Gregory Stark wrote:
Merlin Moncure mmonc...@gmail.com writes:
HS is working very well (Simon's ongoing work aside). I am pretty
confident based on my personal testing that it would represent the
project well if committed today.
I think a lot of
Tom Lane wrote:
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com writes:
So, some feedback to make this decision more difficult:
Users: care about HS more than anything else in the world.
I don't think this is correct. There are certainly a lot of users who
would like an in-core replication solution, but HS
On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 15:47 -0500, Merlin Moncure wrote:
I'd also like to see Simon and or
Heikki make a strong statement on where things stand _right now_ (not
in two weeks) :-)
Well, we just found 2 bugs over the weekend, one of which is a
regression from refactoring.
The second bug is
On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 15:49 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
The problem is that it's not ready and no one is very sure about when
it will be.
With respect, I've done more than any other developer has done to give
you and the community full information on the patch as it develops. I'm
sorry you don't
Josh Berkus wrote:
All,
So, some feedback to make this decision more difficult:
Users: care about HS more than anything else in the world. I'm
convinced that if we took a staw poll, 80% of our users would be in
favor of waiting for HS. This one feature will make more of a
difference in
On Monday 26 January 2009 2:12:02 pm Tom Lane wrote:
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com writes:
So, some feedback to make this decision more difficult:
Users: care about HS more than anything else in the world.
I don't think this is correct. There are certainly a lot of users who
would like
On 1/26/09 4:28 PM, Joshua Brindle met...@manicmethod.com wrote:
Tom Lane wrote:
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com writes:
snip
SE-Linux: this patch has effectively been in development for 2 years
ourside the core process before putting it in; the forked SEPostgres is
in use in production.
Gregory Stark wrote:
I think a lot of people weren't aware there was anybody testing this patch
other than Simon and Heikki -- I wasn't until just today. I wonder how many
more people are trying it out?
I've been running the patch (I think since Jan 5) on a couple dev instances
that were
Gregory Stark wrote:
I think a lot of people weren't aware there was anybody testing this patch
...I wonder how many more people are trying it out?
I think I have an idea to improve this aspect for future commit fests.
For a long time at each of my workplaces I've been running a development
Ron Mayer rm...@cheapcomplexdevices.com writes:
I realize in the current system (emailed patches), this would be a horrible
pain to maintain such a branch; but perhaps some of the burden could be
pushed down to the patch submitters (asking them to merge their own changes
into this merged
* Tom Lane (t...@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote:
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com writes:
Users: care about HS more than anything else in the world.
I don't think this is correct. There are certainly a lot of users who
would like an in-core replication solution, but HS by itself is not that
--- you
Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net writes:
* Tom Lane (t...@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote:
The problem, in words of one syllable, is that we are not sure we want
it. Do you see a user community clamoring for SEPostgres, or a hacker
community that is willing or able to maintain it?
No, it doesn't have
Tom Lane wrote:
The problem, in words of one syllable, is that we are not sure we want
it. Do you see a user community clamoring for SEPostgres, or a hacker
This is a chicken-and-egg type of problem.
Security-conscious users, applications, hackers, and customers will
flock towards whichever
On Monday 26 January 2009 6:31:48 pm Ron Mayer wrote:
Tom Lane wrote:
[...snip...]
The second problem is that we're not sure it's really the right thing,
because we have no one who is competent to review the design from a
security standpoint. But unless we get past the first problem the
On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 19:21 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
Then why has *nobody* stepped up to review the design, much less the
whole patch? The plain truth is that no one appears to care enough to
expend any real effort. But this patch is far too large and invasive
to accept on the basis that only
Ron Mayer rm...@cheapcomplexdevices.com writes:
Tom Lane wrote:
The second problem is that we're not sure it's really the right thing,
because we have no one who is competent to review the design from a
security standpoint.
Are we underestimating Kaigai Kohei?
Perhaps he walks on water, but
Tom Lane wrote:
Ron Mayer rm...@cheapcomplexdevices.com writes:
Are we underestimating Kaigai Kohei?
Perhaps he walks on water, but still I'd like to have more than one
person who has confidence that this design and implementation are correct.
Totally fair. I know I'm totally unqualified to
* Ron Mayer (rm...@cheapcomplexdevices.com) wrote:
What's the right way for us to ask them? No doubt there are some,
but how do we expect them to find join our email list? If we
wanted more feedback would it make sense for someone who can speak
for the project to call them and ask if they'd
Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com writes:
On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 19:21 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
Then why has *nobody* stepped up to review the design, much less the
whole patch?
It was only today that I saw an announcement go out to our announce list
to try and get people to pop their
On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 20:27 -0500, Stephen Frost wrote:
* Ron Mayer (rm...@cheapcomplexdevices.com) wrote:
What's the right way for us to ask them? No doubt there are some,
but how do we expect them to find join our email list? If we
wanted more feedback would it make sense for someone
Tom Lane wrote:
Hmm, you think selinux people read pgsql-announce? But seriously,
we *have* been trying to get people's attention for this patch, both
inside and outside the postgres community, for well over a year now.
The lack of response has been depressing and (IMHO) telling. Nowhere
* Ron Mayer (rm...@cheapcomplexdevices.com) wrote:
Tom Lane wrote:
Hmm, you think selinux people read pgsql-announce? But seriously,
we *have* been trying to get people's attention for this patch, both
inside and outside the postgres community, for well over a year now.
The lack of
On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 20:28 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com writes:
On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 19:21 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
Then why has *nobody* stepped up to review the design, much less the
whole patch?
It was only today that I saw an announcement go out to
Tom Lane wrote:
Ron Mayer rm...@cheapcomplexdevices.com writes:
Tom Lane wrote:
The second problem is that we're not sure it's really the right thing,
because we have no one who is competent to review the design from a
security standpoint.
Are we underestimating Kaigai Kohei?
Perhaps he
Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net writes:
* Ron Mayer (rm...@cheapcomplexdevices.com) wrote:
Ah! Then yes, that does say something about the lack of interest.
It wasn't obvious to me that people were reaching out beyond these lists.
Where were we reaching outside the postgres community..?
Tom Lane wrote:
Stephen Frost sfr...@snowman.net writes:
* Tom Lane (t...@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote:
The problem, in words of one syllable, is that we are not sure we want
it. Do you see a user community clamoring for SEPostgres, or a hacker
community that is willing or able to maintain it?
Jaime Casanova wrote:
SE-Linux: this patch has effectively been in development for 2 years
ourside the core process before putting it in; the forked SEPostgres is in
use in production. KaiGai has been available for 20 hours a week (or more)
to troubleshoot issues and change APIs. I really
* Tom Lane (t...@sss.pgh.pa.us) wrote:
Well, I've been trying to get Red Hat to interest their NSA contacts in
it, and Bruce and Josh B have been making efforts via EDB and Sun that
I don't have details about, but nothing much has come of any of that.
It's certainly frustrating to hear that
Joshua Brindle wrote:
While we haven't been able to analyze the patches directly to
determine whether the security goals are indeed being met we
have had much discussion and eventually community agreement on
the security model being implemented. This happened years ago
and has since been
Tom Lane wrote:
Ron Mayer rm...@cheapcomplexdevices.com writes:
Tom Lane wrote:
The second problem is that we're not sure it's really the right thing,
because we have no one who is competent to review the design from a
security standpoint.
Are we underestimating Kaigai Kohei?
Perhaps he
On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 12:30 +0900, KaiGai Kohei wrote:
BTW, I have not walked on water yet.
I have but I always end up wet. :)
Joshua D. Drake
Thanks,
--
PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdr...@jabber.postgresql.org
Consulting, Development, Support, Training
503-667-4564 -
Stark; Simon Riggs; Bruce Momjian; Bernd
Helmle; Peter Eisentraut; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 8.4 release planning
On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 12:30 +0900, KaiGai Kohei wrote:
BTW, I have not walked on water yet.
I have but I always end up wet. :)
I find
. Harris; Gregory Stark; Simon Riggs; Bruce Momjian; Bernd
Helmle; Peter Eisentraut; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [HACKERS] 8.4 release planning
On Tue, 2009-01-27 at 12:30 +0900, KaiGai Kohei wrote:
BTW, I have not walked on water yet.
I have but I always end up wet. :)
I find
Joshua Brindle met...@manicmethod.com writes:
http://marc.info/?l=selinuxm=115762285013528w=2
Is the original discussion thread for the security model used in the
sepostgresql work. Hopefully you'll see some of the evidence you speak of
there.
Thanks for the link. I took a look through
OK, time for me to chime in.
I think the outstanding commit-fest items can be broken down into four
sections:
o Log streaming
o Hot standby
o SE-PostgreSQL
o Others
I think we all agree that log streaming is not ready for 8.4, and that
delaying for this
All,
FWIW, I'll comment that what we're seeing here is nothing new. We have:
--One invasive patch which everybody (myself included) procrastinated on
reviewing even though we got it early, and:
--One must have big complex patch which arrived very late in the
development cycle.
These are
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com writes:
FWIW, I'll comment that what we're seeing here is nothing new.
Certainly the Hot Standby situation is the same old song, different verse.
(I'm personally of the opinion that the project has usually been better
served when we decided not to postpone a
On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 23:39 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com writes:
FWIW, I'll comment that what we're seeing here is nothing new.
Meanwhile it's emerging that the selinux people don't feel qualified to
review it either. I'm not quite sure what to do about that. But
SEPostgres seems qualitatively different to me, though. I think PG
people have avoided reviewing it because (a) they weren't interested in
it and (b) they knew they were unqualified to review it.
I think that you are off-base here. As I've pointed out previously,
nobody was ever ASSIGNED to
Robert,
The reviewing that happened during this CommitFest did not happen on
the basis of who was interested in which patches. There was a bit of
that, but for the most part people reviewed the patches that they were
asked to review. I assumed (am I the only one?) that the REASON why
we were
The reviewing that happened during this CommitFest did not happen on
the basis of who was interested in which patches. There was a bit of
that, but for the most part people reviewed the patches that they were
asked to review. I assumed (am I the only one?) that the REASON why
we were not
2009/1/27 Joshua D. Drake j...@commandprompt.com:
On Mon, 2009-01-26 at 23:39 -0500, Tom Lane wrote:
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com writes:
FWIW, I'll comment that what we're seeing here is nothing new.
Meanwhile it's emerging that the selinux people don't feel qualified to
review it either.
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Gregory Stark st...@enterprisedb.com wrote:
I realize in the current system (emailed patches), this would be a horrible
pain to maintain such a branch; but perhaps some of the burden could be
pushed down to the patch submitters (asking them to merge their own
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Pavel Stehule pavel.steh...@gmail.com wrote:
so it could be released. 8.5 should be implemented in shorted
cycle - only one commitfest, that is enough (+3 month) for well
completing SE and replication patches.
we tried this before (8.2 to 8.3 i think), the
2009/1/27 Jaime Casanova jcasa...@systemguards.com.ec:
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Pavel Stehule pavel.steh...@gmail.com
wrote:
so it could be released. 8.5 should be implemented in shorted
cycle - only one commitfest, that is enough (+3 month) for well
completing SE and replication
Pavel Stehule wrote:
2009/1/27 Jaime Casanova jcasa...@systemguards.com.ec:
On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 12:40 AM, Pavel Stehule pavel.steh...@gmail.com wrote:
so it could be released. 8.5 should be implemented in shorted
cycle - only one commitfest, that is enough (+3 month) for well
completing SE
Sorry for long description.
Tom Lane wrote:
Joshua Brindle met...@manicmethod.com writes:
http://marc.info/?l=selinuxm=115762285013528w=2
Is the original discussion thread for the security model used in the
sepostgresql work. Hopefully you'll see some of the evidence you speak of
there.
Bruce Momjian wrote:
OK, time for me to chime in.
I think the outstanding commit-fest items can be broken down into four
sections:
o Log streaming
o Hot standby
o SE-PostgreSQL
o Others
- snip -
SE-PostgreSQL has been in steady development for a year so
Josh Berkus j...@agliodbs.com writes:
The idea behind having new reviewers take on all the small patches, was,
of course, to give the main committers more time with patches like
SEPostgres. It worked with other stuff (like Windowing and CTE).
Huh? There were certainly non-committer
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