Re: [HACKERS] pgfoundry references in docs

2012-07-04 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 4:21 PM, David E. Wheeler wrote: > On Jul 4, 2012, at 9:15 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote: > >> Not really. We have nowhere else to recommend, since we don't run a >> replacement for it. And we really don't want to get involved in >> listing all the different third party sites ou

Re: [HACKERS] pgfoundry references in docs

2012-07-04 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Jul 4, 2012, at 9:15 AM, Magnus Hagander wrote: > Not really. We have nowhere else to recommend, since we don't run a > replacement for it. And we really don't want to get involved in > listing all the different third party sites out there. (For example, > we had a reference to sourceforge.net

Re: [HACKERS] pgfoundry references in docs

2012-07-04 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Wed, Jul 4, 2012 at 9:18 AM, Albe Laurenz wrote: > Magnus Hagander wrote: >> Attached are two patches, one of which I'd like to apply. Open for >> discussion on which one. >> >> The smaller one, pgfoundry_1.diff, removes the suggestion to apply for >> new projects on pgfoundry. The reason for t

Re: [HACKERS] pgfoundry references in docs

2012-07-04 Thread Albe Laurenz
Magnus Hagander wrote: > Attached are two patches, one of which I'd like to apply. Open for > discussion on which one. > > The smaller one, pgfoundry_1.diff, removes the suggestion to apply for > new projects on pgfoundry. The reason for this being that pgfoundry > doesn't *accept* new projects an

Re: [HACKERS] pgfoundry references in docs

2012-07-04 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 10:01 PM, David E. Wheeler wrote: > On Jul 3, 2012, at 9:20 PM, Magnus Hagander wrote: > >> The smaller one, pgfoundry_1.diff, removes the suggestion to apply for >> new projects on pgfoundry. The reason for this being that pgfoundry >> doesn't *accept* new projects anymore.

Re: [HACKERS] pgfoundry references in docs

2012-07-04 Thread Magnus Hagander
On Tue, Jul 3, 2012 at 10:32 PM, Dave Page wrote: > > > On Tuesday, July 3, 2012, Peter Geoghegan wrote: >> >> On 3 July 2012 20:20, Magnus Hagander wrote: >> > The second one removes the reference to pgfoundry completely. As a >> > step in the deprecation. >> > >> > I'd prefer to apply the secon

Re: [HACKERS] pgfoundry references in docs

2012-07-03 Thread Dave Page
On Tuesday, July 3, 2012, Peter Geoghegan wrote: > On 3 July 2012 20:20, Magnus Hagander > > wrote: > > The second one removes the reference to pgfoundry completely. As a > > step in the deprecation. > > > > I'd prefer to apply the second one, but will settle for the first one > > if people object

Re: [HACKERS] pgfoundry references in docs

2012-07-03 Thread Peter Geoghegan
On 3 July 2012 20:20, Magnus Hagander wrote: > The second one removes the reference to pgfoundry completely. As a > step in the deprecation. > > I'd prefer to apply the second one, but will settle for the first one > if people object ;) I'd also prefer if you applied the second one. -- Peter Ge

Re: [HACKERS] pgfoundry references in docs

2012-07-03 Thread David E. Wheeler
On Jul 3, 2012, at 9:20 PM, Magnus Hagander wrote: > The smaller one, pgfoundry_1.diff, removes the suggestion to apply for > new projects on pgfoundry. The reason for this being that pgfoundry > doesn't *accept* new projects anymore. Should you not perhaps recommend that they go somewhere else?

[HACKERS] pgfoundry references in docs

2012-07-03 Thread Magnus Hagander
Attached are two patches, one of which I'd like to apply. Open for discussion on which one. The smaller one, pgfoundry_1.diff, removes the suggestion to apply for new projects on pgfoundry. The reason for this being that pgfoundry doesn't *accept* new projects anymore. The second one removes the

Re: [HACKERS] pgfoundry down?

2011-04-11 Thread Marc G. Fournier
Apologies ... everything should be back up and running now ... On Mon, 11 Apr 2011, Tatsuo Ishii wrote: Does anybody know what's going on? -- Tatsuo Ishii SRA OSS, Inc. Japan English: http://www.sraoss.co.jp/index_en.php Japanese: http://www.sraoss.co.jp -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list

[HACKERS] pgfoundry down?

2011-04-11 Thread Tatsuo Ishii
Does anybody know what's going on? -- Tatsuo Ishii SRA OSS, Inc. Japan English: http://www.sraoss.co.jp/index_en.php Japanese: http://www.sraoss.co.jp -- Sent via pgsql-hackers mailing list (pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription: http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgs

Re: [HACKERS] [PgFoundry] Unsigned Data Types

2008-08-17 Thread Asko Oja
I can say that we have had several times to use bigint instead because of the lack of uint type in postgres. On Sun, Aug 17, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Ryan Bradetich <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote: > On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Decibel! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> On Aug 15, 2008, at 1:00 AM, Ryan Bra

Re: [HACKERS] [PgFoundry] Unsigned Data Types

2008-08-17 Thread Ryan Bradetich
On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 10:53 AM, Decibel! <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Aug 15, 2008, at 1:00 AM, Ryan Bradetich wrote: > >> Here is the first pass at the unsigned data type I have been working on. >> >> I am planning on adding these to the September 2008 commitfest wiki page. >> The unsigned d

Re: [HACKERS] [PgFoundry] Unsigned Data Types

2008-08-16 Thread Decibel!
On Aug 15, 2008, at 1:00 AM, Ryan Bradetich wrote: Here is the first pass at the unsigned data type I have been working on. I am planning on adding these to the September 2008 commitfest wiki page. The unsigned data type is not targeted for core, but for the uint PgFoundry project. Is t

[HACKERS] [PgFoundry] Unsigned Data Types

2008-08-14 Thread Ryan Bradetich
Hello all, Here is the first pass at the unsigned data type I have been working on. I am planning on adding these to the September 2008 commitfest wiki page. The unsigned data type is not targeted for core, but for the uint PgFoundry project. The uint.c.gz file is the main source file for the ui

[HACKERS] PGFoundry down?

2006-10-28 Thread Jonah H. Harris
PGFoundry is responding with: PgFoundry Could Not Connect to Database: -- Jonah H. Harris, Software Architect | phone: 732.331.1300 EnterpriseDB Corporation| fax: 732.331.1301 33 Wood Ave S, 2nd Floor| [EMAIL PROTECTED] Iselin, New Jersey 08830| http://www.ente

[HACKERS] pgfoundry - news - is working?

2006-04-20 Thread Pavel Stehule
Hello yesterday I did one news notice on my orafunc page. But it isn't on main page yet. Why? Can someboody explain mechanism of publishing messages on pgfoundry? Regards Pavel Stehule _ Citite se osamele? Poznejte nekoho vyjmec

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-22 Thread Jim C. Nasby
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 04:26:27PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Jim C. Nasby wrote: > > >So, is there a formal project setup anywhere for the migration? ISTM > >that it would be best to create a project on either gborg or pgfoundry > >with the intention that it produce a

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-22 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Jim C. Nasby wrote: So, is there a formal project setup anywhere for the migration? ISTM that it would be best to create a project on either gborg or pgfoundry with the intention that it produce a set of code/scripts/procedures that allow for migrating projects from gborg

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-22 Thread Jim C. Nasby
On Wed, Feb 22, 2006 at 01:11:46PM -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > >Actually, it should be entirely possible to setup forwarding for > >projects as they migrate, one-by-one. AFAIK mailman will handle > >something like [EMAIL PROTECTED] being forwarded to > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Woo hoo ... a mai

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-22 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Wed, 22 Feb 2006, Jim C. Nasby wrote: On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 02:49:30PM +0700, Jeroen T. Vermeulen wrote: On Mon, February 20, 2006 11:00, Marc G. Fournier wrote: Speaking for libpqxx, my only concern with that is the mailing list. Would those have to move to different addresses--or conve

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-22 Thread Jim C. Nasby
On Mon, Feb 20, 2006 at 02:49:30PM +0700, Jeroen T. Vermeulen wrote: > On Mon, February 20, 2006 11:00, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > >> Speaking for libpqxx, my only concern with that is the mailing list. > >> Would those have to move to different addresses--or conversely, would a > >> forced migra

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-19 Thread Jeroen T. Vermeulen
On Mon, February 20, 2006 11:00, Marc G. Fournier wrote: >> Speaking for libpqxx, my only concern with that is the mailing list. >> Would those have to move to different addresses--or conversely, would a >> forced migration make it much easier to move *all* GBorg mailing lists >> to >> pgFoundry a

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-19 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Mon, 20 Feb 2006, Jeroen T. Vermeulen wrote: On Sun, February 19, 2006 05:10, Bruce Momjian wrote: I don't care what direction we go, just kill one. Speaking for libpqxx, my only concern with that is the mailing list. Would those have to move to different addresses--or conversely, would a

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-19 Thread Jeroen T. Vermeulen
On Sun, February 19, 2006 05:10, Bruce Momjian wrote: > I don't care what direction we go, just kill one. Speaking for libpqxx, my only concern with that is the mailing list. Would those have to move to different addresses--or conversely, would a forced migration make it much easier to move *all

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-19 Thread Luke Lonergan
FYI - as a positive enhancement, Greenplum donated a beefy server to host pgFoundry. - Luke On 2/18/06 10:34 AM, "Tom Lane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thomas Hallgren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Bruce Momjian wrote: >>> Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-19 Thread Thomas Hallgren
Dave Page wrote: Moving CVS is not a problem - each project has their own repo on both systems. The problem is moving all the database stuff such as the bug trackers and todo lists, for which I'm told there are no working scripts. The other one that caused me great pain when I moved psqlODBC

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-19 Thread Dave Page
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Joshua D. Drake Sent: Sun 2/19/2006 12:35 AM To: Bruce Momjian Cc: Christopher Browne; pgsql-hackers@postgresql.org Subject: Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down > This is not "get everything everyone want

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Sun, 19 Feb 2006, Thomas Hallgren wrote: Marc G. Fournier wrote: I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to pgfoundry and offered my help in the process, claiming that the CVS repository and the mailing list are what really matters. I'd be fairly upset if gborg was

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Thomas Hallgren
Marc G. Fournier wrote: I've repeatedly asked for help moving my PL/Java stuff over to pgfoundry and offered my help in the process, claiming that the CVS repository and the mailing list are what really matters. I'd be fairly upset if gborg was shut down without that happening. FTP archive

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Christopher Browne
In an attempt to throw the authorities off his trail, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ("Joshua D. Drake") transmitted: >>> >>> Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a >>> lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN. >>> *That* is about the only thing holding off mi

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Thomas Hallgren wrote: Bruce Momjian wrote: Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off. Just before shutt

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Joshua D. Drake wrote: Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN. *That* is about the only thing holding off migration for at least one project... SVN is installed on the pgFoundry

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Joshua D. Drake
Slony-I would move there fairly quickly upon availability of SVN; a lot of our folks would be pretty keen on storing things in SVN. *That* is about the only thing holding off migration for at least one project... SVN is installed on the pgFoundry server, but I think getting pgFoundry to use

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Marc G. Fournier
On Sat, 18 Feb 2006, Christopher Browne wrote: Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw when [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Dunstan) would write: If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available, SVN as well as CVS, and

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Russell Smith
Bruce Momjian wrote: Tom Lane wrote: Thomas Hallgren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Bruce Momjian wrote: Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so let's just pick a server and announce date, and

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Joshua D. Drake
This is not "get everything everyone wants before shutting down a site" time. We should move to one site, and if the new site is not to someone's liking, there is always sourceforge and other hosting sites. I do agree with Bruce here but... we need to make sure that we give everyone their d

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Bruce Momjian
Christopher Browne wrote: > Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw when [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Dunstan) > would write: > > If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with > > PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available, > > SVN as well as CVS, and a known

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Joshua D. Drake
Christopher Browne wrote: Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw when [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Dunstan) would write: If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available, SVN as well as CVS, and a known stable mai

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Christopher Browne
A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, pgman@candle.pha.pa.us (Bruce Momjian) wrote: > Tom Lane wrote: >> Thomas Hallgren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> > Bruce Momjian wrote: >> >> Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we >> >> have to conclude that any clean mi

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Christopher Browne
Centuries ago, Nostradamus foresaw when [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Andrew Dunstan) would write: > If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with > PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available, > SVN as well as CVS, and a known stable mailman release we'd be in >

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Bruce Momjian
Andrew Dunstan wrote: > If we could get to be running pgFoundry on the latest GForge, with > PHP/CGI enabled project web pages, a database per project available, SVN > as well as CVS, and a known stable mailman release we'd be in excellent > shape. > > I'd rather move forwards than back. I don

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Bruce Momjian
Tom Lane wrote: > Thomas Hallgren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Bruce Momjian wrote: > >> Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we > >> have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so > >> let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut on

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Joshua D. Drake wrote: Indeed, we haven't made any particular effort to encourage gborg projects to move. I think it's a bit premature to hold a gun to their heads. Well that is not exactly true. We have been encouraging gborg projects to move for at least a year. What we haven't done

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Joshua D. Drake
Indeed, we haven't made any particular effort to encourage gborg projects to move. I think it's a bit premature to hold a gun to their heads. Well that is not exactly true. We have been encouraging gborg projects to move for at least a year. What we haven't done is provided an easy means t

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Martijn van Oosterhout
On Sat, Feb 18, 2006 at 09:31:18AM -0500, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we > have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so > let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off. Well, first you n

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Tom Lane
Thomas Hallgren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Bruce Momjian wrote: >> Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we >> have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so >> let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off. > I've rep

Re: [HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Thomas Hallgren
Bruce Momjian wrote: Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off. Just before shutting it off, we should dump the existing projec

[HACKERS] Pgfoundry and gborg: shut one down

2006-02-18 Thread Bruce Momjian
Having run had both pgfoundary and gborg for several years, I think we have to conclude that any clean migration is never going to happen, so let's just pick a server and announce date, and shut one of them off. Just before shutting it off, we should dump the existing project information to an FTP

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-06-08 Thread Stephen Frost
* Tom Lane ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > It's essential IMHO that we provide pg_shadow and pg_group as reasonably > backward-compatible views on the new pg_roles catalog. It's not at all > negotiable that CREATE USER and CREATE GROUP have to still work in a > sane fashion --- to say otherwise is to

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-20 Thread Steve Atkins
On Fri, May 20, 2005 at 11:59:00PM +0900, Michael Glaesemann wrote: > >Right, if you classify the information coming in, you can set controls > >over who sees it. What we don't do now is any kind of classification. > > This may be a bit off-the-wall, but I recall Joel Spolsky recently > writin

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-20 Thread Michael Glaesemann
On May 20, 2005, at 11:43 PM, Bruce Momjian wrote: Andrew Dunstan wrote: Actually, when BZ sends you mail, it's acting on choices that you have made, or someone at RedHat has made for you. You have a lot of control over what it sends. You want all the email? Tell BZ and you should get it. By

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-20 Thread Bruce Momjian
Andrew Dunstan wrote: > Tom Lane said: > > Greg Stark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> Tom Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >>> What it comes down to is that a mailing list encourages many-eyes-on- > >>> one-bug synergy, whereas Bugzilla is designed to send a bug report to > >>> just one pair of

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-18 Thread Tom Lane
Stephen Frost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Say, how are you doing on that front? > Current status is- it now compiles with a few pieces still missing: > [snip] It's essential IMHO that we provide pg_shadow and pg_group as reasonably backward-compatible views on the new pg_roles catalog. It's n

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-18 Thread Stephen Frost
* Alvaro Herrera ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > I havn't actually gotten anything real into PostgreSQL *yet*, but I've > > been spending a fair bit of time on implementing support for SQL Roles > > and have had alot of help developing the approach for best implementing > > it (thanks Tom!) and help

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-18 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Josh Berkus wrote: 1) The TODO list is a bit impenetrable for new hackers wanting to get started with PostgreSQL tasks. [snip] In fact, I'd advocate a project task list for (1) (which we conveninetly have in pgFoundry) It belongs as part of the TODO list, I believe, or keeping it in sy

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-18 Thread Alvaro Herrera
On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 05:19:55PM -0400, Stephen Frost wrote: > * Lamar Owen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > On Tuesday 17 May 2005 01:41, Josh Berkus wrote: > > > > > To put it much more bluntly: PostgreSQL development (both the process > > > > > and the codebase) has one of the steepest learning

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-18 Thread Stephen Frost
* Lamar Owen ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > On Tuesday 17 May 2005 01:41, Josh Berkus wrote: > > > > To put it much more bluntly: PostgreSQL development (both the process > > > > and the codebase) has one of the steepest learning curves around, > > > You haven't looked at the OpenOffice.org code.

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-18 Thread Lamar Owen
On Tuesday 17 May 2005 01:41, Josh Berkus wrote: > > > To put it much more bluntly: PostgreSQL development (both the process > > > and the codebase) has one of the steepest learning curves around, > You haven't looked at the OpenOffice.org code. Yes, I have. Yes, it's steeper. -- Lamar Owen D

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-18 Thread Brad Nicholson
Oleg Bartunov wrote: Joshua, does RT has full support of PostgreSQL ? It support's Postgres, but it uses a dynamic query builder that is pretty brain dead. It only implements features that are cross DB compatible. It comes up with some pretty ugly queries. -- Brad Nicholson 416-673-4106 Databas

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-18 Thread Robert Treat
On Wednesday 18 May 2005 04:54, Andrew Dunstan wrote: > Meanwhile, how about the earlier suggestions related to improving the TODO > list a bit (e.g. a "beginner's list")? > I think it would be simple enough to tag certain items on the list as low hanging fruit that there is no reason not to do i

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-18 Thread Josh Berkus
People: I think maybe we're putting on the frosting without the cake here. The primary purpose of bug trackers is to help get bugs fixed. Over the last couple of days, we've had a lot of comments from major bug-fixers that a BT isn't *needed* to get bugs fixed. Let's look at tools which ad

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-18 Thread Stephen Frost
* Tom Lane ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > I think most of the real advantages of bug trackers that have been > mentioned in this thread have to do with history and searchability. > We have the raw info for that, in the pgsql-bugs and pgsql-commmitters > mail archives, and so it seems to me that this

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-18 Thread Greg Stark
Tom Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > [ shrug... ] BZ sends me email too --- for the things *it* thinks I > should know about. Right, what I'm saying is that in RT it's more flexible; you can set it up to send mail for the things *you* think people should know about. Also, BZ and most bug track

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-18 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Tom Lane said: > Greg Stark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> Tom Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >>> What it comes down to is that a mailing list encourages many-eyes-on- >>> one-bug synergy, whereas Bugzilla is designed to send a bug report to >>> just one pair of eyes, or at most a small number of

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-18 Thread Hannu Krosing
On K, 2005-05-18 at 02:23 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote: > What we do now is not to require the reporter or the developers to > classify the email traffic, and the burden is on the people looking for > specific information to find it. > > I am not suggesting we change that, but this the trade-off we

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Bruce Momjian
Tom Lane wrote: > Greg Stark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Tom Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >> What it comes down to is that a mailing list encourages many-eyes-on- > >> one-bug synergy, whereas Bugzilla is designed to send a bug report > >> to just one pair of eyes, or at most a small numb

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Oleg Bartunov
Joshua, does RT has full support of PostgreSQL ? Oleg On Tue, 17 May 2005, Joshua D. Drake wrote: discuss it, and contribute to resolving it. More often than not, a web-based interface like Bugzilla leads to a single "bug master", who does most of this work by themselves. Besides the fact we don

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Tom Lane
Greg Stark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Tom Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> What it comes down to is that a mailing list encourages many-eyes-on- >> one-bug synergy, whereas Bugzilla is designed to send a bug report >> to just one pair of eyes, or at most a small number of eyes. I haven't >>

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Greg Stark
Tom Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > What it comes down to is that a mailing list encourages many-eyes-on- > one-bug synergy, whereas Bugzilla is designed to send a bug report > to just one pair of eyes, or at most a small number of eyes. I haven't > used RT but I doubt it's fundamentally diff

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Tom Lane
Steve Atkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 12:07:14AM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: >> It's not all that easy to make a test case for bugs involving concurrent >> behavior. I'd go so far as to say that most of the seriously >> interesting bugs that I've dealt with in this project

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Steve Atkins
On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 12:07:14AM -0400, Tom Lane wrote: > Steve Atkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > The useful bug tracking systems I've used have also included QA. Any > > bug submitted doesn't get accepted without a standalone test case. > > Side note: while test cases are certainly Good

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Bruce Momjian
Tom Lane wrote: > Neil Conway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > Beyond "the core developers want to stick to email", I think there is a > > good reason that we should stick primarily to email for project > > management: Bugzilla and similar systems are "point to point", whereas a > > mailing list

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Tom Lane
Steve Atkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > The useful bug tracking systems I've used have also included QA. Any > bug submitted doesn't get accepted without a standalone test case. Side note: while test cases are certainly Good Things that make life easier for developers, so we should encourage p

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Tom Lane
Neil Conway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Beyond "the core developers want to stick to email", I think there is a > good reason that we should stick primarily to email for project > management: Bugzilla and similar systems are "point to point", whereas a > mailing list is multicast[1]. That see

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Bruce Momjian
Neil Conway wrote: > Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > You can even respond to specific messages within the thread instead of > > just a top down (one email after the other). > > Well, that seems pretty fundamental... > > >> But the point is that the current system works well; > > > > Well does it tho

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Christopher Kings-Lynne
It also seems that, once you get it up and running, any worthwhile dev management system is going to actually take less time / effort to maintain than, say, maintaining manually concocted todo lists and coordinating development via a mailing list. Call me a normaliser, but even if the maintenance c

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Neil Conway
Joshua D. Drake wrote: You can even respond to specific messages within the thread instead of just a top down (one email after the other). Well, that seems pretty fundamental... But the point is that the current system works well; Well does it though? I am not saying it is bad, well yes I am ;). T

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Joshua D. Drake
discuss it, and contribute to resolving it. More often than not, a web-based interface like Bugzilla leads to a single "bug master", who does most of this work by themselves. Besides the fact we don't have such a person, it would also mean that knowledge of bugs/patches and the discussion abou

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Neil Conway
Brendan Jurd wrote: What's the basis of this objection to a web-based dev management system? Beyond "the core developers want to stick to email", I think there is a good reason that we should stick primarily to email for project management: Bugzilla and similar systems are "point to point", where

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Russell Smith wrote: One of the things which came out of the bugtracker discussion is that anything we use must have the ability for developers to interact 100% by e-mail, as some critical developers will not use a web interface. Doesn't pgfoundry offer this? If not in 3.3, I'm sure it's

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Brendan Jurd
On 5/18/05, Joshua D. Drake <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > O.k. then I misunderstood and apologize. I think the above is > reasonable. I wouldn't think that the main developers would stop > developing to create this system, nor would I want them to take time > away from development to implement it. >

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Russell Smith
On Wed, 18 May 2005 04:31 am, Josh Berkus wrote: > Andrew, > > > Last time it came up I thought the problem was that there was not a > > consensus on *which* bugtracker to use. > > Or whether to use one.Roughly 1/3 bugzilla, 1/3 something else, and 1/3 > don't want a bugtracker. And, among

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Joshua D. Drake
This isn't something that is going to serve the person who loose all the sleep to configure and maintain it. It is something that is going to help the PostgreSQL community has a whole, to grow in a reasonably organized and hopefully less painful way. Maybe I didn't express myself properly. I d

Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry

2005-05-17 Thread Bruce Momjian
Manfred Koizar wrote: > On Mon, 16 May 2005 20:54:15 -0400 (EDT), Bruce Momjian > wrote: > >I have modifed the TODO HTML so the completed items are in italics. > > Isn't it a bit misleading to have those items on the TODO list at all? > Shouldn't there be a separate list: DONE for the next relea

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Alvaro Herrera
On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 03:30:28PM -0700, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > >I don't think Stephen was being sarcastic. Such a system would need an > >enormous bootstrap effort. Once it's in place, and having shown its > >usefulness, maybe the community would start using it. > >(Of course no one can make

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Steve Atkins
On Tue, May 17, 2005 at 06:25:16PM -0400, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 08:04:51AM +1000, Brendan Jurd wrote: > > On 5/18/05, Stephen Frost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > * Brendan Jurd ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > > In the interests of putting my money where my mouth is, I

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Stephen Frost
* Brendan Jurd ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > I'm detecting sarcasm here, but just in case you're being serious ... Yeah, for the most part I *was* being quite serious. > For such a tool to serve its intended purpose, the postgres community > needs to be, to a certain extent, agreed on and aware of

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Joshua D. Drake
I don't think Stephen was being sarcastic. Such a system would need an enormous bootstrap effort. Once it's in place, and having shown its usefulness, maybe the community would start using it. (Of course no one can make promises on that other than for himself.) Well sorry but that is ridiculous.

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Alvaro Herrera
On Wed, May 18, 2005 at 08:04:51AM +1000, Brendan Jurd wrote: > On 5/18/05, Stephen Frost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > * Brendan Jurd ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > > In the interests of putting my money where my mouth is, I would be > > > willing to enlist in the housekeeping effort for this hyp

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Brendan Jurd
On 5/18/05, Stephen Frost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > * Brendan Jurd ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > > In the interests of putting my money where my mouth is, I would be > > willing to enlist in the housekeeping effort for this hypothetical new > > system. > > If you're willing to create it, host it

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Stephen Frost
* Joshua D. Drake ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > >One of the things which came out of the bugtracker discussion is that > >anything we use must have the ability for developers to interact 100% by > >e-mail, as some critical developers will not use a web interface. > > Request Tracker (RT) can do t

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Stephen Frost
* Brendan Jurd ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > In the interests of putting my money where my mouth is, I would be > willing to enlist in the housekeeping effort for this hypothetical new > system. If you're willing to create it, host it, update it and keep it current, and feel it'd be so worthwhile t

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Brendan Jurd wrote: In the interests of putting my money where my mouth is, I would be willing to enlist in the housekeeping effort for this hypothetical new system. It's a nice offer, but honestly, my experience in the commercial world as well as in FOSS tells me that a bug tracking system wo

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Josh Berkus
Manfred, > Just imagine our marketing crew being able to say: "According to our > great bug tracking system NN serious bugs have been reported last year, > 98% of which have been fixed within three days." You're not going to win over many people on *this* list with marketing arguments. -- --J

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Manfred Koizar
On Tue, 17 May 2005 14:45:00 -0300 (ADT), "Marc G. Fournier" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Also, how many 'bugs' have we seen go through the lists that someone >hasn't jump'd on and fixed in a couple of days? Just imagine our marketing crew being able to say: "According to our great bug tracking sy

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Brendan Jurd
On 5/18/05, Tom Lane <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The Postgres project has been exceedingly successful while using email > lists as the primary means of communication/organization. I for one > am disinclined to tinker with such a fundamental aspect of the way that > the community operates. If we

Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry

2005-05-17 Thread Manfred Koizar
On Mon, 16 May 2005 20:54:15 -0400 (EDT), Bruce Momjian wrote: >I have modifed the TODO HTML so the completed items are in italics. Isn't it a bit misleading to have those items on the TODO list at all? Shouldn't there be a separate list: DONE for the next release? Servus Manfred

Re: Learning curves and such (was Re: [HACKERS] pgFoundry)

2005-05-17 Thread Andrew Dunstan
Brendan Jurd wrote: What's the basis of this objection to a web-based dev management system? Seems like web-based makes plenty of sense for a physically disparate development community like this one. Brendan, please review the past versions of this thread. For example, see here: http://groups-

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