Re: [HACKERS] cvs postgres doesn't compile with libreadline 4.2

2001-04-14 Thread Tom Lane

andrea gelmini [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 debian unstable, i386.
 upgrade libreadline 4.2
 postgres doesn't compile.

Seems strange.  Did you re-run PG's configure after installing libreadline?
Are you sure that the include (.h) files found by configure match the
library (.a or .so) file?

regards, tom lane

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[HACKERS] Upgrade complete ... all went smooth ...

2001-04-14 Thread The Hermit Hacker


Just as an FYI for those considering the shift ... I just upgraded all of
my databases over to v7.1 from v7.0.3 and it was smooth as silk.  The only
problems were having to compile and load a few modules from contrib that
some of my clients were using ...

Took about an hour and a half to do 100 databases ..

Very impressive ...

Marc G. Fournier   ICQ#7615664   IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org


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Re: [HACKERS] cvs postgres doesn't compile with libreadline 4.2

2001-04-14 Thread Peter Eisentraut

andrea gelmini writes:

 debian unstable, i386.
 upgrade libreadline 4.2
 postgres doesn't compile.

It seems there were some incompatible changes in readline 4.2.  Use
version 4.1 until we have a fix.

-- 
Peter Eisentraut  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://yi.org/peter-e/


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Re: [HACKERS] pg_dump ordering problem (rc4)

2001-04-14 Thread Philip Warner

 
 A possible kluge answer is to make pg_dump's OID-ordering of views
 depend on the OID of the view rule rather than the view relation.
 I am not sure if that would break any cases that work now, however.
 
 
 This seems good to me; it should be based on the 'oid of the view', and
 AFAICT, the rule OID should be it. Should I do this?

The view oid is certainly better than the base relation oid.


Since I'm in pg_dump at the moment, I'll make the change...


Having now looked at pg_dump more closely, I'm not at all sure I want to
make the change directly in pg_dump. The reason is that I am trying to move
version-specific stuff from pg_dump, and I currently get a view definition
by doing 'select pg_getviewdef(name)' (rather than looking up the rule etc).

Would people mind me adding a 'pg_getviewoid(name)' for pg_dump's use?
(especially since 7.1 now seems to be out...)






Philip Warner| __---_
Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd.   |/   -  \
(A.B.N. 75 008 659 498)  |  /(@)   __---_
Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81 | _  \
Fax: (+61) 0500 83 82 82 | ___ |
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Re: [HACKERS] pg_dump ordering problem (rc4)

2001-04-14 Thread Tom Lane

Philip Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Having now looked at pg_dump more closely, I'm not at all sure I want to
 make the change directly in pg_dump. The reason is that I am trying to move
 version-specific stuff from pg_dump, and I currently get a view definition
 by doing 'select pg_getviewdef(name)' (rather than looking up the rule etc).

 Would people mind me adding a 'pg_getviewoid(name)' for pg_dump's use?

While that would be a clean solution, it would mean that the problem
will remain until 7.2, because you don't get to assume another initdb
until 7.2.  I don't think we want to wait that long; I want to see a fix
of some kind in 7.1.1.

A possible compromise is to do a direct lookup of the OID in 7.1.*
with plans to replace it with some backend-side solution in 7.2 and
beyond.

regards, tom lane

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Re: [HACKERS] pg_dump ordering problem (rc4)

2001-04-14 Thread Philip Warner

At 03:53 14/04/01 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:

 Would people mind me adding a 'pg_getviewoid(name)' for pg_dump's use?

While that would be a clean solution, it would mean that the problem
will remain until 7.2, because you don't get to assume another initdb
until 7.2.  I don't think we want to wait that long; I want to see a fix
of some kind in 7.1.1.

A possible compromise is to do a direct lookup of the OID in 7.1.*
with plans to replace it with some backend-side solution in 7.2 and
beyond.


I don't suppose we can change the pg_views view without an initdb?

If so, a better solution would be to add a 'view_oid' column. Otherwise,
I'll have to kludge pg_dump.



Philip Warner| __---_
Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd.   |/   -  \
(A.B.N. 75 008 659 498)  |  /(@)   __---_
Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81 | _  \
Fax: (+61) 0500 83 82 82 | ___ |
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[HACKERS] Re: Possible explanation for readline configuration problems

2001-04-14 Thread Peter Eisentraut

Tom Lane writes:

 We've gotten several different reports lately of peculiar compilation
 errors and warnings involving readline in 7.1.  They look like configure
 is actively doing the wrong thing --- for example, how could we see
 reports like this:

 tab-complete.c:734: `filename_completion_function' undeclared (first use in this 
function)
 tab-complete.c:734: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
 tab-complete.c:734: for each function it appears in.)

 when the code makes a point of providing a declaration for
 filename_completion_function if configure didn't see it in the headers?

Because

(a) the readline dudes changed the type of filename_completion_function in
version 4.2 from

  extern char *filename_completion_function __P((char *, int));

to

  extern char *filename_completion_function __P((const char *, int));

and

(b) the readline dudes commented out (#if 0) the declaration of
filename_completion_function in the header in favour of the new
rl_filename_completion_function (but left the symbol in the library).

Other symbols were treated similarly, leading to implicit declarations
with ints.

Needless to say, the readline developers deserve to be shot for doing this
in a minor release.

-- 
Peter Eisentraut  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://yi.org/peter-e/


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Re: [HACKERS] pg_dump ordering problem (rc4)

2001-04-14 Thread Philip Warner

At 18:29 14/04/01 +1000, Philip Warner wrote:

I don't suppose we can change the pg_views view without an initdb?


Having now looked at the source, I realize that initdb is where this view
is defined. However, is there any reason that we can not change this
definition when upgrading to 7.1.1? 

The embargo on initdb is, I think, primarily related to avoiding
export/import of databases - is that right? If so, then doing
non-destructive changes to things like system views does not seem too evil
(in this case an update of a row of pg_rewrite and the addition of an attr
to pg_views, I think).

Am I missing something here? ISTM that the more higher level definitions we
have (eg. functions returning multiple rows, DEFINITION SCHEMAs etc), the
more we may need to allow changes to be made of things that are
*customarily* defined in initdb.



Philip Warner| __---_
Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd.   |/   -  \
(A.B.N. 75 008 659 498)  |  /(@)   __---_
Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81 | _  \
Fax: (+61) 0500 83 82 82 | ___ |
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 |----
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Re: [HACKERS] pg_dump, formats blobs

2001-04-14 Thread Philip Warner

At 04:10 14/04/01 +0200, Mathijs Brands wrote:

Sorry about the false alarm. I was convinced restoring blobs
didn't work correctly.


The tar problem is now fixed in CVS.



Philip Warner| __---_
Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd.   |/   -  \
(A.B.N. 75 008 659 498)  |  /(@)   __---_
Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81 | _  \
Fax: (+61) 0500 83 82 82 | ___ |
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 |----
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Re: [HACKERS] pg_dump ordering problem (rc4)

2001-04-14 Thread Philip Warner

At 17:34 13/04/01 -0400, Tom Lane wrote:

A possible kluge answer is to make pg_dump's OID-ordering of views
depend on the OID of the view rule rather than the view relation.
I am not sure if that would break any cases that work now, however.


Fixed in CVS.


Philip Warner| __---_
Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd.   |/   -  \
(A.B.N. 75 008 659 498)  |  /(@)   __---_
Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81 | _  \
Fax: (+61) 0500 83 82 82 | ___ |
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 |----
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[HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread Thomas Lockhart

 I haven't addressed that as yet.  Is it safe to assume that -ffast-math
 should be Considered Harmful in the RPM_OPT_FLAGS?  Is -ffast-math
 _ever_ a Good Thing for our routines?  I can easily enough strip out
 -ffast-math from the flags for all cases (xarg -n 1 grep -v
 ffast-math|xargs is your friend).

I believe that there is no room for -ffast-math in PostgreSQL. The
compiler man page says that the option allows the compiler to generate
code which does not conform to IEEE math standards, and istm that we
might consider that as affecting our predictability and portability. The
man page also warns against using -ffast-math and -O together, but I
can't tell if that is a warning to users or a "note to myself" for the
compiler maintainers.

 While I don't plan on following the Mandrake Way WRT repackaging our
 tarball with bzip2, the source RPM should use whatever compression for
 the man pages that the buildrootpolicy for that distribution supplies.

Certainly so for the tarball. However the tarballs are delivered is how
we should use them imho. Why is it an issue for the man pages? They are
uncompressed in our source tarball (? haven't checked) and if we have
them uncompressed in the RPM build area then they get compressed by RPM
somewhere between installation and RPM packaging, right?

  How are you planning on packaging the hardcopy docs? They are not yet
  available, but will be Real Soon Now :(
 In the postgresql-docs subpackage, along with the SGML source.  The html
 built docs made from the SGML source is still going into the main
 tarball, as they are nice and browseable in their standard location.
 If I release a -1 RPM without the hardcopy, I can release a -2 with

Great.

 There's also a question about the Python client -- it would be good if
 someone who has downloaded one of the RC RPM's could test that, as I'm
 not a snake charmer. :-)

Not sure about the python stuff, and I don't recall doing anything in
the past on that topic.

 Also, I need either a standard way to build the java stuff (meaning my
 own JDK that is reasonably standard by consensus -- kaffe ships with
 RedHat 7.0 -- isthat an acceptable JDK-substitute?) or someone needs to
 package 7.1 JDBC jars for my packaging pleasure.  I'm running low enough
 on disk space on my devel machines (one of which is a notebook) to make
 my own JDK a second choice.

In the past I have found that kaffe did not handle enough java code for
my needs, but that was not for the JDBC driver. I am currently using
jikes for my projects, and it produces *nice* code in my experience.

 - Thomas

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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread Lamar Owen

Thomas Lockhart wrote:
 I believe that there is no room for -ffast-math in PostgreSQL. The

I have placed code in the spec to strip out ffast-math from the CFLAGS.
I have not as yet followed Peter's advice on exporting CFLAGS and
leaving COPT -- but that's not to say that I won't.
 
  While I don't plan on following the Mandrake Way WRT repackaging our
  tarball with bzip2, the source RPM should use whatever compression for
  the man pages that the buildrootpolicy for that distribution supplies.
 
 Certainly so for the tarball. However the tarballs are delivered is how
 we should use them imho.

Exactly.

 them uncompressed in the RPM build area then they get compressed by RPM
 somewhere between installation and RPM packaging, right?

Right.  Each distributor can use its own buildrootpolicy -- which
handles man page compression, executable stripping, and the like. Not an
issue -- but Mandrake historically bzip2's them.
 
 Not sure about the python stuff, and I don't recall doing anything in
 the past on that topic.

I thought you did up the current build way ... but I could be mistaken. 
I need to see if the python interface makefile Does the Right Thing now
WRT RPM_BUILD_ROOT/DESTDIR processing.  The main make stuff now acts
sanely inthe presence of RPM_BUILD_ROOT -- well, except the perl
interface, but that's a special case.
 
 In the past I have found that kaffe did not handle enough java code for
 my needs, but that was not for the JDBC driver. I am currently using
 jikes for my projects, and it produces *nice* code in my experience.

Jikes is open source, right?  I know it is available for Red Hat (ships
with it on one of the applications CD's,IIRC.) How does a Jikes-built
JDBC sound to people?  Ormaybe I don't understand the Java Way well
enough to decide. Gotta learn it a little
--
Lamar Owen
WGCR Internet Radio
1 Peter 4:11

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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread Trond Eivind Glomsrød

Lamar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  In the past I have found that kaffe did not handle enough java code for
  my needs, but that was not for the JDBC driver. I am currently using
  jikes for my projects, and it produces *nice* code in my experience.
 
 Jikes is open source, right?  I know it is available for Red Hat (ships
 with it on one of the applications CD's,IIRC.) How does a Jikes-built
 JDBC sound to people?  Ormaybe I don't understand the Java Way well
 enough to decide. Gotta learn it a little

Jikes is an excellent compiler, but it needs a set of classes to
compile against from a JDK.

-- 
Trond Eivind Glomsrd
Red Hat, Inc.

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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread Bruce Momjian

Do we need to start thinking about an RPM mailing list?  Seems there is
lots of traffic.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian|  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive, |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.|  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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Re: [HACKERS] pg_dump ordering problem (rc4)

2001-04-14 Thread Tom Lane

Philip Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I don't suppose we can change the pg_views view without an initdb?

No, not very readily.

Even assuming that we were willing to require dbadmins to run a script
during upgrade (which I wouldn't want to do unless forced to it), it's
not that easy to fix all the occurrences of a system view.  Remember
there will be a separate copy in each database, including template0
which you can't even get to.  On top of which, DROP VIEW/CREATE VIEW
wouldn't work because the view would then have the wrong OID, and would
look like a user-created object to pg_dump.  You'd have to manually
manipulate tuples in pg_class, pg_attribute, pg_rewrite, etc.

Kluging pg_dump is a *lot* cleaner.

I agree with the idea of adding the rule OID as a new column of pg_views
for 7.2, however.

regards, tom lane

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Re: [HACKERS] Re: Possible explanation for readline configuration problems

2001-04-14 Thread Tom Lane

Peter Eisentraut [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 (b) the readline dudes commented out (#if 0) the declaration of
 filename_completion_function in the header in favour of the new
 rl_filename_completion_function (but left the symbol in the library).

The "#if 0" silliness is not what's confusing configure however,
because what it's grepping is preprocessor output; it will not see the
commented-out declaration of filename_completion_function.  What it
*does* see is the declaration of rl_filename_completion_function, and
because of the lack of defense against partial-word matches, mistakes
that for filename_completion_function.  Our code would actually work if
AC_EGREP_HEADER weren't so nonrobust about what it will take as a match.

 Needless to say, the readline developers deserve to be shot for doing this
 in a minor release.

I don't suppose our life would be any simpler if they'd called it 5.0
instead of 4.2, though.  Visions of mayhem aside, we ought to try to
persuade our code to work cleanly with 4.2 as well as earlier releases.
Do you have time to work on that for 7.1.1 (ie, end of the month or so)?

regards, tom lane

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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread The Hermit Hacker


If someone wants to come up with an idea for name, i think that the whole
Win camp could be seperated also ...

pgsql-windows and pgsql-rpm ?

as far as newsgroups are concerned, they would both fall under ports:

comp.databases.postgresql.ports.linux.rpm
comp.databases.postgresql.ports.windows

I'm willing to create, as long as ppl are willing to use *shrug*

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:

 Do we need to start thinking about an RPM mailing list?  Seems there is
 lots of traffic.

 --
   Bruce Momjian|  http://candle.pha.pa.us
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  (610) 853-3000
   +  If your life is a hard drive, |  830 Blythe Avenue
   +  Christ can be your backup.|  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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Systems Administrator @ hub.org
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[HACKERS] Name - number ...

2001-04-14 Thread The Hermit Hacker


77 databases in data/base directory ... all number'd ...

select * from pg_database;

doesn't give me the reference to which directory is which database ... so
what table do we need to join on to get this information?

thanks ...

Marc G. Fournier   ICQ#7615664   IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org


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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread Lamar Owen

The Hermit Hacker wrote:
 If someone wants to come up with an idea for name, i think that the whole
 Win camp could be seperated also ...
 
 pgsql-windows and pgsql-rpm ?
 
 as far as newsgroups are concerned, they would both fall under ports:

If that's what you want to do.  Although, I'd recommend pgsql-cygwin,
lest someone erroneously think we directly support Win32.
--
Lamar Owen
WGCR Internet Radio
1 Peter 4:11

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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread Tom Lane

The Hermit Hacker [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 If someone wants to come up with an idea for name, i think that the whole
 Win camp could be seperated also ...

 pgsql-windows and pgsql-rpm ?

A windows list seems like a good idea.  But I'm not sure that a separate
list for RPMs is a good idea.  In the first place, it's fuzzy: is it
to be used just for RPM packaging discussion, or is it going to draw
off --- for example --- all bug reports from people who happen to have
installed from RPM instead of source?  I suppose the former is intended,
but it's not going to be clear to people.  I think we've already got too
many lists with fuzzy boundaries.  In the second place, the RPM
packaging discussion is quite sporadic; I think the traffic would be nil
except at times when Lamar is working on new RPMs.

regards, tom lane

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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread The Hermit Hacker

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Tom Lane wrote:

 The Hermit Hacker [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  If someone wants to come up with an idea for name, i think that the whole
  Win camp could be seperated also ...

  pgsql-windows and pgsql-rpm ?

 A windows list seems like a good idea.  But I'm not sure that a
 separate list for RPMs is a good idea.  In the first place, it's
 fuzzy: is it to be used just for RPM packaging discussion, or is it
 going to draw off --- for example --- all bug reports from people who
 happen to have installed from RPM instead of source?  I suppose the
 former is intended, but it's not going to be clear to people.  I think
 we've already got too many lists with fuzzy boundaries.  In the second
 place, the RPM packaging discussion is quite sporadic; I think the
 traffic would be nil except at times when Lamar is working on new
 RPMs.

That's why I wasn't sure how to classify the RPM one ...

I like Lamar's suggestion of pgsql-cygwin though ... sound reasonable?



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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread Peter Eisentraut

Bruce Momjian writes:

 Do we need to start thinking about an RPM mailing list?  Seems there is
 lots of traffic.

The traffic naturally peaks around release time, and this time especially
because yours truly messed up the whole build system that the packagers
were so careful to work around.  I trust that in a few weeks we'll enter a
new quiet period.  My vote is that technical packaging discussions should
go on -hackers just like a makefile discussion.

-- 
Peter Eisentraut  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://yi.org/peter-e/


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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread Bruce Momjian

 Bruce Momjian writes:
 
  Do we need to start thinking about an RPM mailing list?  Seems there is
  lots of traffic.
 
 The traffic naturally peaks around release time, and this time especially
 because yours truly messed up the whole build system that the packagers
 were so careful to work around.  I trust that in a few weeks we'll enter a
 new quiet period.  My vote is that technical packaging discussions should
 go on -hackers just like a makefile discussion.
 

OK, it was just an idea.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian|  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive, |  830 Blythe Avenue
  +  Christ can be your backup.|  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026

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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread The Hermit Hacker

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Peter Eisentraut wrote:

 Bruce Momjian writes:

  Do we need to start thinking about an RPM mailing list?  Seems there is
  lots of traffic.

 The traffic naturally peaks around release time, and this time
 especially because yours truly messed up the whole build system that
 the packagers were so careful to work around.  I trust that in a few
 weeks we'll enter a new quiet period.  My vote is that technical
 packaging discussions should go on -hackers just like a makefile
 discussion.

Why not a "pgsql-build", or something like that, list?  Where build/make
file discussions can take place?  Vs server issues?  I'd really like to
find some way of reducing traffic on -hackers like we did with -interfaces
... if we can come up with a good list for it ...

pgsql-build (or a better name?) could be for RPM discussions, just as easy
as Makefile/Configure discussions ...



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[HACKERS] 7.1 RPMS...

2001-04-14 Thread Chris Bowlby


Where are the 7.1 rpms downloadable from? (even the RC based ones)?

 Chris Bowlby,
 -
 Web Developer @ Hub.org.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 www.hub.org
 1-902-542-3657
 -


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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread Tom Lane

The Hermit Hacker [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I like Lamar's suggestion of pgsql-cygwin though ... sound reasonable?

Yes, that's probably better than pgsql-windows ...

regards, tom lane

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Re: [HACKERS] Name - number ...

2001-04-14 Thread Bruce Momjian

 
 d'oh, should  have extended my query ...
 
 select oid,* from pg_database;
 
 gives the directory name ...
 

Interesting to not that reffilenode is for tables, but oid is for
databases.  I hadn't realized that distinction until you asked.  You
can't rename databases, so the oid is OK for this.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian|  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  (610) 853-3000
  +  If your life is a hard drive, |  830 Blythe Avenue
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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread Peter Eisentraut

The Hermit Hacker writes:

 I like Lamar's suggestion of pgsql-cygwin though ... sound reasonable?

We have pgsql-ports, which isn't seeing too much traffic as it is.  Seems
like the cygwin people hang out there anyway.

-- 
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Re: [HACKERS] Name - number ...

2001-04-14 Thread Bruce Momjian

 
 77 databases in data/base directory ... all number'd ...
 
 select * from pg_database;
 
 doesn't give me the reference to which directory is which database ... so
 what table do we need to join on to get this information?
 
 thanks ...

Info is in pg_class.relfilenode.  Now the big question is where do
database names go.  My guess is pg_database.oid.

-- 
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  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  (610) 853-3000
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Re: [HACKERS] Name - number ...

2001-04-14 Thread The Hermit Hacker


d'oh, should  have extended my query ...

select oid,* from pg_database;

gives the directory name ...

thanks :)


On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Bruce Momjian wrote:

 
  77 databases in data/base directory ... all number'd ...
 
  select * from pg_database;
 
  doesn't give me the reference to which directory is which database ... so
  what table do we need to join on to get this information?
 
  thanks ...

 Info is in pg_class.relfilenode.  Now the big question is where do
 database names go.  My guess is pg_database.oid.

 --
   Bruce Momjian|  http://candle.pha.pa.us
   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  (610) 853-3000
   +  If your life is a hard drive, |  830 Blythe Avenue
   +  Christ can be your backup.|  Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026


Marc G. Fournier   ICQ#7615664   IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org


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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread Vince Vielhaber

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

 On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Peter Eisentraut wrote:

  Bruce Momjian writes:
 
   Do we need to start thinking about an RPM mailing list?  Seems there is
   lots of traffic.
 
  The traffic naturally peaks around release time, and this time
  especially because yours truly messed up the whole build system that
  the packagers were so careful to work around.  I trust that in a few
  weeks we'll enter a new quiet period.  My vote is that technical
  packaging discussions should go on -hackers just like a makefile
  discussion.

 Why not a "pgsql-build", or something like that, list?  Where build/make
 file discussions can take place?  Vs server issues?  I'd really like to
 find some way of reducing traffic on -hackers like we did with -interfaces
 ... if we can come up with a good list for it ...

 pgsql-build (or a better name?) could be for RPM discussions, just as easy
 as Makefile/Configure discussions ...

How 'bout pgsql-hackers-rpm.  Because the make/config stuff can impact
so many different parts of PostgreSQL, that stuff should probably remain
on hackers.

Vince.
-- 
==
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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread The Hermit Hacker

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Peter Eisentraut wrote:

 The Hermit Hacker writes:

  I like Lamar's suggestion of pgsql-cygwin though ... sound reasonable?

 We have pgsql-ports, which isn't seeing too much traffic as it is.  Seems
 like the cygwin people hang out there anyway.

Ya, well, there is alot of traffic on -hackers that should probably be
over there anyway *shrug*



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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread The Hermit Hacker

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Tom Lane wrote:

 The Hermit Hacker [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  I like Lamar's suggestion of pgsql-cygwin though ... sound reasonable?

 Yes, that's probably better than pgsql-windows ...

Done ...



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Re: [HACKERS] Name - number ...

2001-04-14 Thread Tom Lane

The Hermit Hacker [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 77 databases in data/base directory ... all number'd ...

 select * from pg_database;

 doesn't give me the reference to which directory is which database ... so
 what table do we need to join on to get this information?

select oid, datname from pg_database;

I think Bruce did a contrib utility to keep track of this, too.

regards, tom lane

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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread Bruce Momjian

 The Hermit Hacker [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  I like Lamar's suggestion of pgsql-cygwin though ... sound reasonable?
 
 Yes, that's probably better than pgsql-windows ...

But then again, the comment this is more properly done on ports makes
sense.


-- 
  Bruce Momjian|  http://candle.pha.pa.us
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]   |  (610) 853-3000
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[HACKERS] alter database without shutting down !?

2001-04-14 Thread Sergio A. Kessler

first, congratulations to all for the 7.1 release, good work.

second, I've found (some years ago to be honest) that pgsql can ALTER
TABLE while the table is widely available for all users...

this strike me as pretty bad/dangerous/confusing/messy (even from the
POV of implementation)

should I supposed to do something like: 
ALTER DATABASE CLOSE
or
ALTER DATABASE SHUTDOWN [options]  (simil oracle)

before doing changes to the definition of tables ?

someone can say this is a feature, don't think so, even then I 
think that ALTER TABLE DROP COLUMN could be implemented a *lot*
more easily with this method.

(and requiring this operation to enter DDL sound very logical)

regards,
sergio

_
Lo probaste?
Correo gratis y para toda la vida en http://correo.yahoo.com.ar

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Re: NetBSD Bad address failure (was Re: [HACKERS] Third call for platform testing)

2001-04-14 Thread Tom Ivar Helbekkmo

Tom Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  I think this is indisputably a bug in (some versions of) NetBSD.
 
 I forgot to mention a possible contributing factor: the files involved
 were NFS-mounted, in the case I was looking at.  So this may be an NFS
 problem more than a NetBSD problem.  Anyone want to try the given test
 case on NFS-mounted files on other systems?

I can verify, that with NetBSD-current on sparc, your test code works
the way you want it to on local disk, but fails (in the way you've
observed), if the target file is on an NFS-mounted file system.

-tih
-- 
The basic difference is this: hackers build things, crackers break them.

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Re: NetBSD Bad address failure (was Re: [HACKERS] Third call for platform testing)

2001-04-14 Thread Tom Lane

Tom Ivar Helbekkmo [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 I can verify, that with NetBSD-current on sparc, your test code works
 the way you want it to on local disk, but fails (in the way you've
 observed), if the target file is on an NFS-mounted file system.

FWIW, the test program succeeds (no error) using HPUX 10.20 and a couple
different Linux flavors as either client or server.  So I'm still
thinking that it's NetBSD-specific.  It would be useful to try it on
some other BSD derivatives though ...

regards, tom lane

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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread Peter Eisentraut

The Hermit Hacker writes:

 If someone wants to come up with an idea for name, i think that the whole
 Win camp could be seperated also ...

 pgsql-windows and pgsql-rpm ?

There seem to be a lot of Linux users, too.  How about a new mailing list?

-- 
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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread Lamar Owen

Peter Eisentraut wrote:
 The traffic naturally peaks around release time, and this time especially
 because yours truly messed up the whole build system that the packagers
 were so careful to work around.

Now, Peter.  The build, IMHO, is much better than before -- if anything,
the fact that we had to change as much as we did shows that the previous
build system, no offense intended to anyone who worked on it :-), wasn't
'packaging friendly.'  I ripped out more special treatment than I had to
put in.  The less code in the spec, the better the spec (and the better
the package).

Now I just have to get the Python build version-agnostic and using the
regular build -- even if I have to dink with the makefiles myself. I
think the perl build, due to its two-stage needs, will remain the
special case that it is.

  I trust that in a few weeks we'll enter a
 new quiet period.  My vote is that technical packaging discussions should
 go on -hackers just like a makefile discussion.

I tend to agree -- but at the same time I'm easy to get along with in
that regard.  Packaging envelopes the whole program -- I must see the
forest that the -hackers group has built out of trees.  And I have to
know some details of the trees occasionally.  I'm sure Oliver would
agree.

And, to let everyone know, I'm having a blast doing this. And I'm glad
my work schedule eased up some in the last month so I could put some
time to this task.
--
Lamar Owen
WGCR Internet Radio
1 Peter 4:11

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[HACKERS] Hey guys, check this out.

2001-04-14 Thread Lamar Owen

http://www.crn.com/Sections/Fast_Forward/fast_forward.asp?ArticleID=25670

Marc will be pleased to note that the PostgreSQL project came out of the
FreeBSD project, and is Great Bridge's database.  Gotta love
journalistic license.
--
Lamar Owen
WGCR Internet Radio
1 Peter 4:11

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Re: [HACKERS] Hey guys, check this out.

2001-04-14 Thread Dominic J. Eidson

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Lamar Owen wrote:

 http://www.crn.com/Sections/Fast_Forward/fast_forward.asp?ArticleID=25670
 
 Marc will be pleased to note that the PostgreSQL project came out of the
 FreeBSD project, and is Great Bridge's database.  Gotta love
 journalistic license.

Oh, and 7.1's due to ship at the end of June... *cough* Somebody should
forward Marc's announcement from last night to them.


-- 
Dominic J. Eidson
"Baruk Khazad! Khazad ai-menu!" - Gimli
---
http://www.the-infinite.org/  http://www.the-infinite.org/~dominic/


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Re: [HACKERS] Hey guys, check this out.

2001-04-14 Thread The Hermit Hacker


there is little, to nothing, factual about that whole article ...

"Great Bridge essentially gives away its open-source database application
at little cost..."

- thannk god I can get it completely for free, eh?

"Great Bridge executives say their licensing costs for the software..."

- someone want to tell me when they started charging licensing
  costs?

"...nearly 25 years ago"

- I thought it was around '85?  That's only 15 years ...

"Version 7.1, due to ship at the end of June..."

- should I pull what we've released? *raised eyebrow*

"...is the marketing and channel arm for PostgreSQL"

- they are?

I wonder, is Great Bridge going to step up and correct the *several*
mis-conceptions that have been touted in their name?  There were alot of
quotes from GB in there, so I wonder ... ?

On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Lamar Owen wrote:

 http://www.crn.com/Sections/Fast_Forward/fast_forward.asp?ArticleID=25670

 Marc will be pleased to note that the PostgreSQL project came out of the
 FreeBSD project, and is Great Bridge's database.  Gotta love
 journalistic license.
 --
 Lamar Owen
 WGCR Internet Radio
 1 Peter 4:11

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[HACKERS] pg_dump compatibility with 7.0

2001-04-14 Thread Philip Warner


I've been messing around with a 7.0 compatible dump for 7.1, and it looks
good so far (at least I can dump  restore my local DBs and, to some
extent, the regression DB, including BLOBs).

It is a mixture of 7.1 and 7.0 features, in the sense that it is basically
the 7.1 pg_dump but with 7.0 SQL/methods where necessary. As a result it
dumps in OID order etc but has the 7.0 type formatting for 7.0 databases.
It also uses pg_views to get the view definition, and, at least on 7.0.2,
the view was mildly broken so the regression DB does not dump properly.

I'd be interested in feedback etc, if people don't mind. The patch (against
CVS) can be found at:

ftp://ftp.rhyme.com.au/pub/postgresql/pg_dump/pg_dump_1504_patch.gz

At the moment it has no idea what do do with aggregates (is there
anything?), and it assumes 'proisstrict' on functions.




Philip Warner| __---_
Albatross Consulting Pty. Ltd.   |/   -  \
(A.B.N. 75 008 659 498)  |  /(@)   __---_
Tel: (+61) 0500 83 82 81 | _  \
Fax: (+61) 0500 83 82 82 | ___ |
Http://www.rhyme.com.au  |/   \|
 |----
PGP key available upon request,  |  /
and from pgp5.ai.mit.edu:11371   |/

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Re: [HACKERS] Hey guys, check this out.

2001-04-14 Thread Vince Vielhaber


I rarely sign a note as the webmaster, I like to keep a low profile.
I just sent the witch a note and made it a point to let her know who
I am - and BCCd Marc.  He can cross post it if he wishes.  I also sent
it to the editor of that rag.

Vince.



On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:


 there is little, to nothing, factual about that whole article ...

 "Great Bridge essentially gives away its open-source database application
 at little cost..."

   - thannk god I can get it completely for free, eh?

 "Great Bridge executives say their licensing costs for the software..."

   - someone want to tell me when they started charging licensing
 costs?

 "...nearly 25 years ago"

   - I thought it was around '85?  That's only 15 years ...

 "Version 7.1, due to ship at the end of June..."

   - should I pull what we've released? *raised eyebrow*

 "...is the marketing and channel arm for PostgreSQL"

   - they are?

 I wonder, is Great Bridge going to step up and correct the *several*
 mis-conceptions that have been touted in their name?  There were alot of
 quotes from GB in there, so I wonder ... ?

 On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Lamar Owen wrote:

  http://www.crn.com/Sections/Fast_Forward/fast_forward.asp?ArticleID=25670
 
  Marc will be pleased to note that the PostgreSQL project came out of the
  FreeBSD project, and is Great Bridge's database.  Gotta love
  journalistic license.
  --
  Lamar Owen
  WGCR Internet Radio
  1 Peter 4:11
 
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 Systems Administrator @ hub.org
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==
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Re: [HACKERS] Hey guys, check this out.

2001-04-14 Thread The Hermit Hacker


okay, I didn't get a copy of it ... :(

On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, Vince Vielhaber wrote:


 I rarely sign a note as the webmaster, I like to keep a low profile.
 I just sent the witch a note and made it a point to let her know who
 I am - and BCCd Marc.  He can cross post it if he wishes.  I also sent
 it to the editor of that rag.

 Vince.



 On Sun, 15 Apr 2001, The Hermit Hacker wrote:

 
  there is little, to nothing, factual about that whole article ...
 
  "Great Bridge essentially gives away its open-source database application
  at little cost..."
 
  - thannk god I can get it completely for free, eh?
 
  "Great Bridge executives say their licensing costs for the software..."
 
  - someone want to tell me when they started charging licensing
costs?
 
  "...nearly 25 years ago"
 
  - I thought it was around '85?  That's only 15 years ...
 
  "Version 7.1, due to ship at the end of June..."
 
  - should I pull what we've released? *raised eyebrow*
 
  "...is the marketing and channel arm for PostgreSQL"
 
  - they are?
 
  I wonder, is Great Bridge going to step up and correct the *several*
  mis-conceptions that have been touted in their name?  There were alot of
  quotes from GB in there, so I wonder ... ?
 
  On Sat, 14 Apr 2001, Lamar Owen wrote:
 
   http://www.crn.com/Sections/Fast_Forward/fast_forward.asp?ArticleID=25670
  
   Marc will be pleased to note that the PostgreSQL project came out of the
   FreeBSD project, and is Great Bridge's database.  Gotta love
   journalistic license.
   --
   Lamar Owen
   WGCR Internet Radio
   1 Peter 4:11
  
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  Marc G. Fournier   ICQ#7615664   IRC Nick: Scrappy
  Systems Administrator @ hub.org
  primary: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
 
 
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 ==
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Re: [HACKERS] pg_dump compatibility with 7.0

2001-04-14 Thread Tom Lane

Philip Warner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 At the moment it has no idea what do do with aggregates (is there
 anything?), and it assumes 'proisstrict' on functions.

I'll take the blame for the aggregate issue ;-).

SFUNC1/STYPE1/INITCOND1 in 7.0 equate to SFUNC/STYPE/INITCOND in 7.1.
There is no 7.1 equivalent to 7.0's SFUNC2/STYPE2/INITCOND2 --- those
have to be saved/restored separately if you are dumping a 7.0 database
with intentions of restoring it to 7.0.  On the other hand, if you are
dumping 7.0 with an eye to restoring to 7.1, you could just as well
raise an error if those fields are nonnull.

Assuming 'proisstrict' for a 7.0 function seems reasonable.

regards, tom lane

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[HACKERS] Fast Forward (fwd)

2001-04-14 Thread Vince Vielhaber


Here's my response to the inaccurate article cmp produced.  After
chatting with Marc I decided to post it myself.

Since I know Ned reads this list, I formally request that he also
insists PUBLICALLY that cmp correct their inaccuracies.  I'm rather
disappointed (for lack of a more descriptive word) that Bruce has not
already done so.

Vince.
-- 
==
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 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
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-- Forwarded message --
Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:30:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Vince Vielhaber [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Fast Forward


Where do you get your info?  Do you just make it up?  PostgreSQL is
not a product of Great Bridge and never has been.  It's 100% independant.
Is Linux a keyword you figure you can use to draw readers?  Won't take
long before folks determine you're full of it.  The PostgreSQL team takes
great pride (not to be confused with great bridge) in ensuring that the
work we do runs on ALL platforms; be it Mac's OSX, FreeBSD 4.3, or even
Windows 2000.  So why do you figure this is a Great Bridge product?  Why
do you figure it's Linux only?  What is it with you writers lately?  Are
you getting lazy and simply using Linux as a quick out for a paycheck?

I rarely (if ever) sign my name as a member of the PostgreSQL team, but
this time I'm making an exception 'cuze you crossed the line.  I also
very rarely get involved in this politlcal crap, but you've crossed
the line on that as well.  The ENTIRE PostgreSQL team awaits your
WRITTEN apology as does every support organisation listed on the website.

Vince Vielhaber - Webmaster for PostgreSQL.org







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Re: [HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread Thomas Lockhart

  In the past I have found that kaffe did not handle enough java code for
  my needs, but that was not for the JDBC driver. I am currently using
  jikes for my projects, and it produces *nice* code in my experience.
 Jikes is open source, right?  I know it is available for Red Hat (ships
 with it on one of the applications CD's,IIRC.) How does a Jikes-built
 JDBC sound to people?  Ormaybe I don't understand the Java Way well
 enough to decide. Gotta learn it a little

For the RPM, you should be able to build JDBC with whatever compiler
produces reliable, quality code. jikes is one good candidate imho.

Not sure if the configure info for JDBC looks for choices of compiler,
or if you can specify the compiler for the build. I can look into it,
but am not sure how one interacts with ant (we are using ant to do the
Java build now, right??) or if ant handles it already.

 - Thomas

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[HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMs

2001-04-14 Thread Thomas Lockhart

 Do we need to start thinking about an RPM mailing list?  Seems there is
 lots of traffic.

The delete key is your friend. So is procmail, if you just can't stand
to see the letters "R", "P", and "M" too close together ;)

I'm not a big fan of the trend to fork off a mailing list anytime more
than a few messages on a single topic come through. The synergy and
cross-pollination that we get by having us all see various topics wrt
development far outweigh the minor annoyance to some on having to delete
topics they don't find interesting.

As an example, RPM building is only a part of the general packaging of
PostgreSQL, but it illustrates issues which anyone touching
configuration or Makefiles should be aware of. So forcing "those Linux
people" onto some specialty list weakens the knowledge base we all could
draw from.

All imho of course...

  - Thomas

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[HACKERS] Re: 7.1 RPMS...

2001-04-14 Thread Thomas Lockhart

 Where are the 7.1 rpms downloadable from? (even the RC based ones)?

ftp://ftp.postgresql.org/pub/dev/...

or

ftp://ftp.postgresql.org/pub/binary/...

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[HACKERS] Thankyou!

2001-04-14 Thread Vince Vielhaber


Tom and Peter,

After looking at and thinking about the direction of the PostgreSQL
project and the release of 7.1, I wanted to personally thank the both
of you for your hard work and contributions to the project which without
your efforts there might not only not be a 7.1, PostgreSQL might not be
where it is at all.  Knowing the both of you as I've been fortunate of,
I know you're both rather modest but nonetheless are still deserving of my
heartfelt thanks.

Sincerely,
Vince.
-- 
==
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSHemail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.pop4.net
 56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
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==




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