Re: The many uses of PilMCU
I've started a wiki document: http://picolisp.com/wiki/?pilMCU Will flesh it out over the next few days. - h On 2014-10-7, 4:36 PM, Christophe Gragnic wrote: Hi list ! This thread is meant to collect ideas about PilMCU. At least mine (because I need to clean them up a bit) and ideas of other PicoLispers (out of curiosity). Maybe some items will look more like questions like «is it even possible?»! (This email took me at least two weeks of careful drafting.) May this thread help Alex and George to refine their biz-plan! My ideas are all related to the language I embed in PicoLisp: http://microalg.info I dream about a small box that would interpret this language and interact in several ways with the user (output of course, but input like coding the box too, as well as typing words or other (gaming) peripherals). Now I may go in more details. I'm not saying that Alex and George may build this box, but could consider enough flexibility and connectivity for someone to be able to build this kind of project based on their project -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: The many uses of PilMCU
My apologies, should have been more verbose. Now in the wiki: KEY The left column denotes price. For instance $100x is 100 TIMES the consumer purchase price. Similarly the top column denotes efficiency or performance, as an example 5x slower means 1/5th the speed of a similar consumer device.This must be based on the context of the contents, we're not building a 3D graph. This is because people want to build a variety of devices: * 3D goggles * mobile phone * genetic testing cluster * game system * wearable The price and performance of these tasks varies as wildly as our expectations. Right now we have no idea how performant it will be or how much it will cost. This is where the wiki comes in, to outline ideas based on which bucket the idea falls into. - h On 2014-10-13, 4:53 PM, Jakob Eriksson wrote: I don't understand the leftmost column with the dollars. On 2014-10-13 22:38, Heow Goodman wrote: I've started a wiki document: http://picolisp.com/wiki/?pilMCU Will flesh it out over the next few days. - h On 2014-10-7, 4:36 PM, Christophe Gragnic wrote: Hi list ! This thread is meant to collect ideas about PilMCU. At least mine (because I need to clean them up a bit) and ideas of other PicoLispers (out of curiosity). Maybe some items will look more like questions like «is it even possible?»! (This email took me at least two weeks of careful drafting.) May this thread help Alex and George to refine their biz-plan! My ideas are all related to the language I embed in PicoLisp: http://microalg.info I dream about a small box that would interpret this language and interact in several ways with the user (output of course, but input like coding the box too, as well as typing words or other (gaming) peripherals). Now I may go in more details. I'm not saying that Alex and George may build this box, but could consider enough flexibility and connectivity for someone to be able to build this kind of project based on their project -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: The many uses of PilMCU
Hi Heow, Looks great!! Thanks and yes i agree with the the details on Fast Dev ;) Keep posted, cheers! BR, geo On Tuesday, October 14, 2014 8:49 AM, Heow Goodman li...@alphageeksinc.com wrote: My apologies, should have been more verbose. Now in the wiki: KEY The left column denotes price. For instance $100x is 100 TIMES the consumer purchase price. Similarly the top column denotes efficiency or performance, as an example 5x slower means 1/5th the speed of a similar consumer device.This must be based on the context of the contents, we're not building a 3D graph. This is because people want to build a variety of devices: * 3D goggles * mobile phone * genetic testing cluster * game system * wearable The price and performance of these tasks varies as wildly as our expectations. Right now we have no idea how performant it will be or how much it will cost. This is where the wiki comes in, to outline ideas based on which bucket the idea falls into. - h On 2014-10-13, 4:53 PM, Jakob Eriksson wrote: I don't understand the leftmost column with the dollars. On 2014-10-13 22:38, Heow Goodman wrote: I've started a wiki document: http://picolisp.com/wiki/?pilMCU Will flesh it out over the next few days. - h On 2014-10-7, 4:36 PM, Christophe Gragnic wrote: Hi list ! This thread is meant to collect ideas about PilMCU. At least mine (because I need to clean them up a bit) and ideas of other PicoLispers (out of curiosity). Maybe some items will look more like questions like «is it even possible?»! (This email took me at least two weeks of careful drafting.) May this thread help Alex and George to refine their biz-plan! My ideas are all related to the language I embed in PicoLisp: http://microalg.info I dream about a small box that would interpret this language and interact in several ways with the user (output of course, but input like coding the box too, as well as typing words or other (gaming) peripherals). Now I may go in more details. I'm not saying that Alex and George may build this box, but could consider enough flexibility and connectivity for someone to be able to build this kind of project based on their project -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: The many uses of PilMCU
Christophe Gragnic christophegrag...@gmail.com writes: Hi Christophe, This thread is meant to collect ideas about PilMCU. At least mine (because I need to clean them up a bit) and ideas of other PicoLispers (out of curiosity). Maybe some items will look more like questions like «is it even possible?»! that last sentence describes the situation very well for people who have not been in the 'embedded world' so far (like me) - they can let their imagination (about PilMCU) flow, but most likely some seasoned embedded programmer will bring them back-to-earth soon. For me the fascination about the PilMCU chip lies in the fact that, even if it might be slower or more expensive than available mass products, I can program it in PicoLisp. For others this might be a huge advantage over doing embedded programming in other environments (which they already know), for me it would allow me to try out embedded programming without having to learn all the usual related stuff, I would simply skip the painfull part and directly go to the fun part, so to say. The problem is that I don't know exactly how that fun part would look like in the end? Whats the state-of-the-art in robotics e.g.? How difficult would it be to use the PilMCU chip as the brain of an otherwise fully functional roboter(-tool-kit) - if at all possible? What about (connecting) smart home devices etc? All my ideas are application oriented, i.e. I imagine an interesting use of a chip that is programmed in PicoLisp, but these ideas can be turned down easily by saying this would be cheaper faster when simply running 64bit PicoLisp on a regular mass-product chip. So I think this thread is a good idea, and hope it helps me to make up my mind about realistic possibilities of PilMUC. -- cheers, Thorsten -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: The many uses of @
Alexander Burger a...@software-lab.de writes:
Hi Alex,
sure how to insert the table. I would like to insert the raw html so
that I don't have to recreate the table in wiki syntax (probably only
the body part?).
Hmm, that's a problem. Currently, the only way to display such data is
the pre-formatted markup, e.g.
:{
data layout
}
or point to some external HTML document with
^{http://location.org Document}
I don't have a server running.
It would be tempting to add a new markup, for direct inclusion of HTML
code, to the wiki syntax. However, this would introduce trouble, because
the automatic TeX/PDF generator can't handle it.
You could try to use 'html2text' on the HTML document, do some manual
tuning, and then include it as pre-formatted text. Can you try that?
Its the html-export of an Emacs .org file anyway, so the original file
is plain text. I'll try that.
But somehow I discovered a bug in the wiki?
when I try to make a new doc
,--
| myaccount-documents-new-Document+-new
`--
I get this message, even when I just logged in a minute ago.
I closed and re-opened my brower (conqueror) but that did not help.
strange...
,
| Timeout
|
| Es konnte keine Verbindung zur Anwendung hergestellt werden.
|
| Wahrscheinlich wurde die Wartezeit überschritten und die Anwendung beendet.
| Bitte versuchen Sie, die Anwendung neu aufzurufen.
|
| Could not connect to the current session.
|
| Probably, a timeout occurred, and the session terminated.
| Please try to re-connect to the application.
|
`
Cheers,
--
Thorsten
--
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Re: The many uses of @
Hi Thorsten,
Trying again, after waiting a few minutes, it worked.
Yeah, I've just sent a mail informing about the bugfix.
Now I inserted the (ultra-long) table into a :{} enrironment and made a
new page. Preview showed that the format of the table was ok, but the
table-size was not fitted to pagesize (no line-breaks).
Perhaps better clean it up and insert linebreaks. And perhaps some
delimiting lines.
I found that when I called 'html2text' with your original HTML-document,
as included in the mails, looks quite nice.
I saved the page anyway. Lets see how it looks like.
You don't refer to that page yet from somewhere in the Wiki?
Cheers,
- Alex
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Re: The many uses of @
Alexander Burger a...@software-lab.de writes: Hi Alex, Perhaps better clean it up and insert linebreaks. And perhaps some delimiting lines. I gave it a second try, starting with a link from the articles page, and and now everything looks fine and works without problems - as long as I'm logged in. When I log out and access the wiki, the link to my article (on the articles/essays page) is not shown as a link any more, but as text. I have no idea why - the link entry looks fine to me... Cheers, -- Thorsten -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: The many uses of @
Hi Thorsten, When I log out and access the wiki, the link to my article (on the articles/essays page) is not shown as a link any more, but as text. I have no idea why - the link entry looks fine to me... Hmm, perhaps another bug in the Wiki: The mainenance GUI doesn't enforce a folded spelling of the name, which is a unique key in the DB. I changed the internal name of your new document from AtMark to atmark, and now it works. And I also changed the GUI, to automatically 'fold' the name of a newly created document. Thanks again! Cheers, - Alex -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: The many uses of @
On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 20:29:39 +0100 Thorsten quintf...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi list, when reading Picolisp source code I often find myself a bit confused with regards to the meaning of @ in the context of the source code. Therefore I tried to make a table that summarizes all possible meanings of @ in Picolisp in one place (see attached html-file below). Please let me know what I've missed or where I misunderstood something. If you think the table is worth it, I could make a wiki-page for it, but I don't have access to the picolisp-wiki. Cheers 'text also uses @ http://software-lab.de/doc/refT.html#text It's also useful to note that in short-circuit evaluation style functions like 'and, @ always holds the result of the previously evaluated argument, as you can see in this typical PicoLisp line: (and and (@ (min @ 5) (prinl @) (gt0 (dec @)) .)) ;) -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
Re: The many uses of @
José Romero jose.cyb...@gmail.com writes: On Tue, 08 Nov 2011 21:47:04 +0100 Thorsten quintf...@googlemail.com wrote: José Romero jose.cyb...@gmail.com writes: 'text also uses @ http://software-lab.de/doc/refT.html#text It's also useful to note that in short-circuit evaluation style functions like 'and, @ always holds the result of the previously evaluated argument, as you can see in this typical PicoLisp line: (and and (@ (min @ 5) (prinl @) (gt0 (dec @)) .)) ;) ok, I added these two cases to the table (see below). Could you give a little 'walk-through' for the example line, its not that obvious (to me) how this works (but it does) ;) min, prinl, gt0 and dec are obvious. the double 'and and' and the '.' at the and are a bit strange. Where does the initial @=5 come from - because @ is initially T and T is greater than everything else? cheers Pretty silly and badly written explanation of what goes on there: I'm eval. I see a list, look inside, i see a symbol called 'and. i look at it's val. It's a number, thus a function pointer, i call it with the rest of the list unevaluated. I'm doAnd, i look at the list i was passed, i see a symbol called 'and, i evaluate it, a number came out, it's not NIL, so i shove it in @ and look at the next cadr. It's a list, i evaluate it, has a symbol called @ in it's car, that symbol resolves to a number, a pointer to doAnd, i call it with the rest of the list unchanged. I'm doAnd, i look at the list i was passed, the first argument, evaluating it results in a function call that returns 5, it's not nil, so i shove it to @ and go on. The next element is another list, a call to prinl happens, it returned 5, it's not nil, so i shove it to @ and go on. Look at the next element, a call to (gt0 (dec @)), returns 4, that is not nil, so i shove the 4 in @ and go on. Looking at the next cadr i see @ again (but i don't realize, because i don't know wether a list is circular or not), it evaluates to 4, so i shove it to @ keep going. I see (min @ 5) again. ... 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... (gt0 (dec @)) returns NIL here, so i stop evaluating and return NIL Back in the first doAnd, i see the previous call returned NIL, so i stop evaluating right there and return NIL. great, thank you - thats probably what one would call dense code. what I did not understand (or remembered) in the beginning was that symbols evaluate to their VAL, a number (the second 'and') and that a final '.' immediatly followed by a closing parenthesis indicates a circular list. a lot of things going on in one single line of code. in picolisp its really helpfull to be aware whats going on under the hood. Then I realized that it could be written with only one 'and using the right syntax (and losing part of it's rube-goldberg appeal): that looks a bit easier ... (and 5 . ((prinl @) (gt0 (dec @)) .)) let me try this one: I'm eval. I see a list, look inside, i see a symbol called 'and. i look at it's val. It's a number, thus a function pointer, i call it with the rest of the list unevaluated. I'm doAnd, i look at the number i was passed, i see a number 5, i evaluate it, a number came out, it's not NIL, so i shove it in @ and look at the next cadr. here I get stuck - this looks like a dotted pair cell, but thats a list and not an atom in the CDR? or is this list evaluated until it return an atom as an result? otherwise its clear that doAnd evaluates the circular list until NIL is returned. Cheers -- Thorsten -- UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
