Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages

2016-10-07 Thread Derek M Jones
Peter, It's really heavily influenced by the parser being used, with a handcoded LL(1) parser you can include all sorts of fancy error processing and recovery, The parser being used influences the technical problems of getting thing to work well. I have seen bad error recover with LL and very

Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages

2016-10-06 Thread Peter Gutmann
Derek M Jones writes: >Syntax error recovery was much better back in the 1960s and 1970 because job >turn around time was so long. > >http://shape-of-code.coding-guidelines.com/2010/04/19/brief-history-of-syntax-error-recovery/ > >When PCs became available compiler error recovery got seriously wo

Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages

2016-10-06 Thread Derek M Jones
lor...@gmail.com, It has been interesting to watch the Rust community put real effort into improving the error messages generated by the compiler: Behind the bluster this is all about changing the format of the message. Format is important because consistent layout reduces confusion. Also poi

RE: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages

2016-10-06 Thread 'Steven Clarke' via PPIG Discuss
highlighting, inline errors (squiggles) etc. Steven From: ppig-discuss@googlegroups.com [mailto:ppig-discuss@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of lor...@gmail.com Sent: 06 October 2016 05:25 To: ppig-discuss@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages On Wed, Oct 5

Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages

2016-10-05 Thread Linda McIver
Hi Brett, It's awesome to find more work in this area. Your thesis sounds really interesting, please do email when it's up. I've downloaded your article and am very much looking forward to reading it. I'm really glad to hear the project is ongoing. Please keep in touch! Linda On 6 October 2016

Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages

2016-10-05 Thread lor...@gmail.com
On Wed, Oct 5, 2016 at 10:13 AM, Derek M Jones wrote: > > The only way you are going to get user oriented error messages is by > writing a front end designed for that purpose (which means ignoring > the common "how to write a compiler" advice because this is not > designed to produce meaningful m

Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages

2016-10-05 Thread Derek M Jones
Brett, My work on enhancing compiler error messages in Java has been published by *Computer As a commercial compiler writer in a past life I know that error messages rarely get much priority. Any programmer who knows what they are doing should be able to figure the first message out (close,

Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages

2016-05-19 Thread Huw Lloyd
> > > > > > *From:* ppig-discuss@googlegroups.com [mailto: > ppig-discuss@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Michael Sloan > *Sent:* 19 May 2016 01:34 > *To:* Raoul Duke > *Cc:* PPIG Discuss > *Subject:* Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages > &

RE: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages

2016-05-19 Thread Steven Clarke
] Re: Beginner friendly error messages Yup, this is a very astute observation. The deeper you are in a compilation pipeline, the further you are away from the user's input. If there isn't enough info relating the compilation back to the user's input, it is challenging to giv

Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages

2016-05-18 Thread Michael Sloan
Yup, this is a very astute observation. The deeper you are in a compilation pipeline, the further you are away from the user's input. If there isn't enough info relating the compilation back to the user's input, it is challenging to give helpful error messages. This can also be a big problem for

Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages

2016-05-18 Thread Raoul Duke
> I'm surprised this isn't a solved problem. The true state of the UX of programming (from error messages to language syntax to tooling to ui to version control, to anything and everything) is a clear indictment of the entire enterprise. Well, at least when it comes to industry. For the large part

Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages

2016-05-18 Thread Linda McIver
), Article ID > 602570, 26 pages http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2010/602570 > > > > > ------ > *From:* ppig-discuss@googlegroups.com on > behalf of Thomas Green > *Sent:* 06 April 2016 09:20 > *To:* Linda McIver > *Cc:* PPIG Discuss >

Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages

2016-05-18 Thread Linda McIver
Hi Brett, My apologies for the long delayed reply (to you and many others!). It's been a crazy few weeks. Thanks so much for the references, that's a real treasure trove. Now if you could email me the time to tackle it, all my problems will be solved. ;-) My current plan is to put it up as a hac

Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages

2016-04-06 Thread Tamara . Lopez
570, 26 pages http://dx.doi.org/10.1155/2010/602570 From: ppig-discuss@googlegroups.com on behalf of Thomas Green Sent: 06 April 2016 09:20 To: Linda McIver Cc: PPIG Discuss Subject: Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages Hi Linda, good

Re: [ppig-discuss] Re: Beginner friendly error messages

2016-04-06 Thread Thomas Green
Hi Linda, good to hear your voice. >From way back, see Ben du Boulay's paper "Fatal error in pass zero" on what not to say to novices : and Mark Eisenstadt co-authored a paper where they looked at every error report issued to a class of beginners and analysed every single one. That was in a very