more about what you hate so much.
On 10/20/2017 10:55 AM, Dave Crozier wrote:
> "Knock, knock."
> "Who's there?"
> very long pause
> "Java."
BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHA!
[excessive quoting removed by server]
On 2017-10-20 11:20, Stephen Russell wrote:
I heard it had used VFP's FLUSH function pretty effectively. lol
-
It did park VFP in its tracks.
I know that visual Studio got better each version presented to the
public.
Not only the M$ bits but the secondary tool vendors who
On 10/20/2017 10:55 AM, Dave Crozier wrote:
"Knock, knock."
"Who's there?"
very long pause
"Java."
BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHA!
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On Fri, Oct 20, 2017 at 9:38 AM, <
mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com> wrote:
> On 2017-10-20 04:39, Alan Bourke wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 19 Oct 2017, at 08:14 PM, Stephen Russell wrote:
>>
>>> I did get a chuckle out of that. Since that time VFP has had how many
>>> upgrades?
>>>
>>>
>> it
com>
Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.
On 2017-10-19 16:45, Bill Anderson wrote:
>>> Ah, the DotNet boom/bust timeframe. Remember when M$ was putting
>>> .Net
> behind EVERYTHING!?!?!?! Office.Net, VS.Net, Toilet.Net, <<
>
>
On 2017-10-19 16:45, Bill Anderson wrote:
Ah, the DotNet boom/bust timeframe. Remember when M$ was putting
.Net
behind EVERYTHING!?!?!?! Office.Net, VS.Net, Toilet.Net, <<
Yeah, I wanted someone to put out a Cardfile.NET so that MSFT would
promote
it as "revolutionary"...
ROFL!!
On 2017-10-20 04:39, Alan Bourke wrote:
On Thu, 19 Oct 2017, at 08:14 PM, Stephen Russell wrote:
I did get a chuckle out of that. Since that time VFP has had how many
upgrades?
it could have done with a lot more upgrades.
I heard it had used VFP's FLUSH function pretty effectively. lol
On 2017-10-19 15:34, Ted Roche wrote:
On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Stephen Russell
wrote:
I did get a chuckle out of that. Since that time VFP has had how many
upgrades?
No need. Unlike DotNet, VF
IN! lol
On Thu, 19 Oct 2017, at 08:14 PM, Stephen Russell wrote:
> I did get a chuckle out of that. Since that time VFP has had how many
> upgrades?
>
it could have done with a lot more upgrades.
--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
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On 10/19/2017 3:51 PM, Eric Selje wrote:
Toilet.Net was actually pretty nice.
I thought that was the ONLY .Net they released...
:)
-Charlie
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Toilet.Net was actually pretty nice.
On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Ted Roche wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Stephen Russell
> wrote:
> > I did get a chuckle out of that. Since that time VFP has had how many
> > upgrades?
> >
>
> No
On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 3:14 PM, Stephen Russell wrote:
> I did get a chuckle out of that. Since that time VFP has had how many
> upgrades?
>
No need. Unlike DotNet, VFP is a stable and mature product ;)
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I did get a chuckle out of that. Since that time VFP has had how many
upgrades?
On Thu, Oct 19, 2017 at 12:38 PM, <
mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com> wrote:
> On 2017-10-19 12:03, Bill Anderson wrote:
>
>> Michael,
>>
>> I'm pretty sure it was at our December 2000 LA Fox meeting.
On 2017-10-19 12:03, Bill Anderson wrote:
Michael,
I'm pretty sure it was at our December 2000 LA Fox meeting.
Ah, the DotNet boom/bust timeframe. Remember when M$ was putting .Net
behind EVERYTHING!?!?!?! Office.Net, VS.Net, Toilet.Net,
Michael,
I'm pretty sure it was at our December 2000 LA Fox meeting.
Bill Anderson
On Wed, Oct 18, 2017 at 12:17 PM, <
mbsoftwaresoluti...@mbsoftwaresolutions.com> wrote:
> On 2017-10-05 13:25, Bill Anderson wrote:
>
>> Kevin,
>>
>> At our user group we were told by a Microsoft representative
On 2017-10-06 08:52, Eric Selje wrote:
Ok, I haven't had my coffee yet. It moves the forms to HTML, not
Javascript. My bad.
Wasn't that the idea with Microsoft's "Save as HTML" option in the VFP
IDE? LOL
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On 2017-10-05 13:25, Bill Anderson wrote:
Kevin,
At our user group we were told by a Microsoft representative (well
known to
the Fox community) that Dell was throwing away all their internal
applications **sight unseen** to rewrite them in the beta version of
.NET
1.0.
I wonder how that
On 2017-10-04 11:01, Stephen Russell wrote:
This is the 2017 .NET Conference Keynote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yecu4g5JYB8
So glad it's not MonkeyBoy dancing around like an idiot. M$ under this
new boss seems much better than the Ballmer years.
Thierry,
You are correct. It is too theoretical I let my Christmas wish list get the
better of me.
On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 1:33 AM, Thierry Nivelet
wrote:
> Well, all this is too theoritical for me to contribute in any useful way.
>
> All I know is the level of
Alan,
For my tastes I find both Lianja and XSharp a little expensive, however it
might well be justified as they need to run a business and develop a
product.
On Tue, Oct 10, 2017 at 12:10 AM, Alan Bourke
wrote:
> If anyone is just looking for VFP syntax in a more
In the case of Google I think this was an honest to God look at the tech
and the decision that it was better than Dart (Google's own version). I
have to say it is a very impressive language, because it accommodates both
strong and weak typing. So you can do things like import jQuery and get
code
Well, all this is too theoritical for me to contribute in any useful way.
All I know is the level of difficulty to properly parse a language; eg.
VFP, we did some parsing for FAA; very difficult to make it structured,
maintainable and reliable on the whole spread of cases. Transpiling
would
If anyone is just looking for VFP syntax in a more modern paradigm,
Lianja and XSharp are right there.
--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
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Interesting discussion thanks for your input.
In my opinion, we have stagnated because the evolution of the community
requires a roadmap that provides something that the old path could not do.
Tech has moved on. I appreciate Chen's work but in my mind the future of
coding is in a combination of
Le 09/10/2017 à 12:57, Paul Hemans a écrit :
The VFP community which is now quite small
Rather than small, I would say that the number of leaders is small,
mainly because -- in my eyes -- the 'elite' of the community is
reluctant to renew itself, and accept new members, new ideas, new ways
to
Hi Paul,
Good news, if Googles enters the dance, Typescript is on good tracks to
become a standard; good job Microsoft, there must have been a lot of
negotiations behind the scene.
However, I saw quite a bunch of open source projects in the JavaScript
world that were frozen because the
Being open source means that in theory yes, but the open source world is
littered with half-finished, unpatched and abandoned projects because
the developers wanted the new shiny or some financial reward.
--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
Hi Thierry,
I think you are looking at Typescript from the perspective of the VFP
community which is now quite small, and for us to support it would be a
huge challenge. However, if MS abandoned Typescript, it would be no problem
because Typescript is now an official language at Google.
Speaking
Le 07/10/2017 à 22:29, Paul Hemans a écrit :
But even if they decided to stop it someone could pick up the code and go
on. With VFP we were simply stuffed. 'Open source' means the source is
available.
Well, theorically true, very difficult practically.
As I mentioned earlier, all major
leafe.com] On Behalf Of Ed Leafe
Sent: 08 October 2017 17:59
To: ProFox Mailing List <profox@leafe.com>
Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.
On Oct 7, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Paul Hemans <paul_hem...@laberg.com.au> wrote:
> Ed, with Typescript the code is released und
On Oct 7, 2017, at 3:34 PM, Paul Hemans wrote:
> Ed, with Typescript the code is released under the Apache license so I
> don't see copyright as a problem.
That's certainly true, but my concern is that there is one company with its own
needs running the show. Sure,
Le 07/10/2017 à 22:29, Paul Hemans a écrit :
But even if they decided to stop it someone could pick up the code and go
on. With VFP we were simply stuffed. 'Open source' means the source is
available.
Will answer with details tomorrow
BTW: How did you figure out that the top 10 were from MS,
Ed, with Typescript the code is released under the Apache license so I
don't see copyright as a problem.
On Sat, Oct 7, 2017 at 2:20 PM, Ed Leafe wrote:
> On Oct 6, 2017, at 4:37 PM, Paul Hemans wrote:
>
> > Being open source guarantees that it can be
But even if they decided to stop it someone could pick up the code and go
on. With VFP we were simply stuffed. 'Open source' means the source is
available.
BTW: How did you figure out that the top 10 were from MS, 1 has a gmail
account and another seems to be from facebook.
On Sat, Oct 7, 2017
The top 10 contributers being from MS
(https://github.com/Microsoft/TypeScript/graphs/contributors), if they
decide to stop the project, no one will be able to continue. More a
marketing trick than real 'open source'. To me, 'open source' means that
many devs from various horizon is able to
On Oct 6, 2017, at 4:37 PM, Paul Hemans wrote:
> Being open source guarantees that it can be forked and that we don't end up
> in the dead end that VFP became. But there are other options for strongly
> typed JS available. It is just that being associated with MS means
On Oct 6, 2017, at 4:50 PM, Paul H. Tarver wrote:
> I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure Microsoft "forked" Foxpro
> developers.
Amen to that, brother!
-- Ed Leafe
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-Original Message-
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hemans
Sent: Saturday, 7 October 2017 9:37 AM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.
"I don't know about you, but I'm pretty sure Microsoft &q
day, October 06, 2017 4:38 PM
> To: profoxt...@leafe.com
> Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.
>
> Being open source guarantees that it can be forked and that we don't end
> up in the dead end that VFP became. But there are other options for
> strongly type
nt: Friday, October 06, 2017 4:38 PM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.
Being open source guarantees that it can be forked and that we don't end up in
the dead end that VFP became. But there are other options for strongly typed JS
available. It is just
Being open source guarantees that it can be forked and that we don't end up
in the dead end that VFP became. But there are other options for strongly
typed JS available. It is just that being associated with MS means that it
has stronger support, whereas other open source projects can simply dry
developed and promoted by Microsoft, and widely considered as part of
the MS ecosystem even if it's technically open source.
perceptions weigh more than facts, I can testify.
Thierry Nivelet
FoxInCloud
Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud
http://foxincloud.com/
Le 06/10/2017 à 16:55,
fe.com] On Behalf Of Thierry
Nivelet
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2017 2:00 AM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.
To me the value is not so much in VFP, but in the intelligence accumulated
(capitalized) into the software along the years, what finance peopl
On Fri, 6 Oct 2017, at 03:14 PM, Thierry Nivelet wrote:
> Typescript is Microsoft;
It's also open source, and only one of a range of similar tools.
--
Alan Bourke
alanpbourke (at) fastmail (dot) fm
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Typescript is Microsoft;
Microsoft used to impose *de facto standards* in the 90's, no more
chance any time soon.
Thierry Nivelet
FoxInCloud
Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud
http://foxincloud.com/
Le 06/10/2017 à 16:03, Alan Bourke a écrit :
On Fri, 6 Oct 2017, at 12:08 AM, Paul
On Fri, 6 Oct 2017, at 12:08 AM, Paul Hemans wrote:
> I think everyone should be aware that Anders Hejlsberg (Turbo Pascal,
> Delphi and C#) is now on Typescript. This speaks volumes.
It's certainly welcome that things like TypeScript are gaining
widespread acceptance and providing a way to
eme amount of business logic in
the
app and the task is mammoth.
-Original Message-
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of
Kevin
Cully
Sent: Friday, 6 October 2017 6:44 AM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.
I worked
d. 30M+ wasted. Back to using VFP for now. Not suggesting
>> it
>> > can't be done but in this case an extreme amount of business logic in
>> the
>> > app and the task is mammoth.
>> >
>> > -Original Message-
>> > From: P
sting it
> > can't be done but in this case an extreme amount of business logic in the
> > app and the task is mammoth.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of
> Kevin
> > Cully
> > Sent:
I'm convinced that although Vista had serious issues, the perception that Vista
was terrible was made worse because of the major changes to the UI. Nobody
likes change and inertia being what it is, our nature is to resist any attempt
to make us change.
And yes I am including myself in that
I have seen a few potential projects that the replacement had to be
identical to the former product, only on a new platform. Instead of making
an app that fit the platform first and doing what is needed as well.
On Fri, Oct 6, 2017 at 4:39 AM, Alan Bourke wrote:
> On
On Thu, 5 Oct 2017, at 10:42 PM, Darren wrote:
> I know of a bank that spent upwards of 30M trying to port a VFP app, that
> had been developed over 15+ years with a group of developers, to .NET -
> all got dumped. 30M+ wasted
None of these are a necessarily a .NET problem though, you can point
Thierry, I think you are onto something, though my perspective is not so
much on the interface but rather the business rules. That is where I see
the intangibles. Foxers have accumulated a library of business domain
knowledge and some are now retiring. All that knowledge is going to be lost.
What
Kevin
Cully
Sent: Friday, 6 October 2017 6:44 AM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.
I worked for a company that produced Real Estate software for the
commercial side of things. We had a national client that said they were
leaving our product to de
To me the value is not so much in VFP, but in the intelligence
accumulated (capitalized) into the software along the years, what
finance people call 'intangible'. That's where the value really is, as
we've written this back in 2010 (http://foxincloud.com/why.php).
Balmer betting on a 'savior'
Reminds me of all the COBOL programmers who got rehired to fix code that had
never been replaced prior to Y2K.
Hang in to your VFP y'all, they are going to keep needing us for a while. Maybe
until Y3K :)
Paul
Sent from my iPhone
> On Oct 5, 2017, at 10:31 PM,
On 2017-10-05 15:43, Kevin Cully wrote:
I worked for a company that produced Real Estate software for the
commercial side of things. We had a national client that said they
were leaving our product to develop a new .NET solution with another
company.
They returned after 1.5 years and after
On 2017-10-05 13:25, Bill Anderson wrote:
Kevin,
At our user group we were told by a Microsoft representative (well
known to
the Fox community) that Dell was throwing away all their internal
applications **sight unseen** to rewrite them in the beta version of
.NET
1.0.
I wonder how that
k, but ultimately in all the languages I have looked at so far, there
>> comes a point where I throw my hands up and give up because I can do what I
>> need to in VFP so much faster and easier.
>>
>> Xojo keeps popping up on my radar and I keep wondering if I should give it
I can confirm this situation. I wrote a very complex, custom management system
with VFP back office which synced to a Java based public web system sitting on
top of a FirebirdSQL database.
After 15 years with at least 6 different programmers trying to re-write my
system they are still using
ehalf Of Kevin
> Cully
> Sent: Friday, 6 October 2017 6:44 AM
> To: profoxt...@leafe.com
> Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.
>
> I worked for a company that produced Real Estate software for the
> commercial side of things. We had a national client that said t
in the app and the task is
mammoth.
-Original Message-
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Cully
Sent: Friday, 6 October 2017 6:44 AM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.
I worked for a company that produced Real
..@tpcqpc.com
-Original Message-
From: ProfoxTech [mailto:profoxtech-boun...@leafe.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Cully
Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2017 11:58 AM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.
Hello Paul,
My consulting business didn't focus on
I heard a similar story for a web rewrite of a VFP app into .net. Back to
square 1 after spending $5M.
Thierry Nivelet
http://foxincloud.com/
Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud
> Le 5 oct. 2017 à 21:43, Kevin Cully a écrit :
>
> I worked for a company
Well, I often read from experts that rewriting a s/w using new techs was a
piece of cake compared to maintaining old clumsy legacy stuff… your story
sounds like a counter example.
Thierry Nivelet
http://foxincloud.com/
Give your VFP app a second life in the cloud
> Le 5 oct. 2017 à 21:43,
I worked for a company that produced Real Estate software for the
commercial side of things. We had a national client that said they were
leaving our product to develop a new .NET solution with another company.
They returned after 1.5 years and after spending $2.1M. They started
asking us
October 05, 2017 11:58 AM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.
Hello Paul,
My consulting business didn't focus on creating desktop apps for resale. There
are a lot of Xojo developers that do however. I was focusing on developing
custom software
Kevin,
At our user group we were told by a Microsoft representative (well known to
the Fox community) that Dell was throwing away all their internal
applications **sight unseen** to rewrite them in the beta version of .NET
1.0.
I wonder how that turned out?
Bill Anderson
>>For 20 years now,
Hello Paul,
My consulting business didn't focus on creating desktop apps for
resale. There are a lot of Xojo developers that do however. I was
focusing on developing custom software for small and medium businesses
and Xojo is an excellent tool to rapidly develop solutions for the business.
On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 11:01 AM, Stephen Russell wrote:
> It has morphed from the .NET you all hated so much 15 years ago. They show
> working in Chrome and not Bing.
>
It wasn't that I *HATED* DotNet, but I was disappointed in how MS
treated FoxPro and developers, and
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.
XOJO doesn't support Android development yet. Xamarin does which is write once
and portable class libraries allow you to reuse a lot of your base.
On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:45 AM, Kevin Cully <
XOJO doesn't support Android development yet. Xamarin does which is write
once and portable class libraries allow you to reuse a lot of your base.
On Thu, Oct 5, 2017 at 8:45 AM, Kevin Cully
wrote:
> For 20 years now, Microsoft has been telling me that I've been
8:46 AM
To: profoxt...@leafe.com
Subject: Re: [NF] learn more about what you hate so much.
For 20 years now, Microsoft has been telling me that I've been developing with
an inferior tool and that .NET is better. Is it ready now?
I think I'll stick with Foxpro and now Xojo for developing
For 20 years now, Microsoft has been telling me that I've been
developing with an inferior tool and that .NET is better. Is it ready now?
I think I'll stick with Foxpro and now Xojo for developing business
solutions.
I don't hate .NET. I'm just going to continue to ignore it.
On
This is the 2017 .NET Conference Keynote
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yecu4g5JYB8
It has morphed from the .NET you all hated so much 15 years ago. They show
working in Chrome and not Bing.
the beginning goes over NuGet if you are unfamiliar with posting packages
to it.
--
Stephen Russell
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