[PEDA] BGA Design
Has anyone designed a fine pitch BGA, ~400pin, in Protel99SE? If so, what issues or difficulties did you encounter? Could it be done? My concern is with Protel's ability and ease of use in developing a large SMT design with BGAs, multiple via types, Via shapes, Paste mask aperatures. ie. how manufacturable the final result would be, how effective the use of design rules are Regards, Colin Weber Posted from Association web site by: Colin Weber * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BGA Design
I did, the defines are no problem. The BGA wizzard is fine with these definitions. You can define multiple via types, paste or solder mask extendions and apertures as you like it. I only would discourage you to try to use the Protel autorouter on a design like this. You need microvias and buried vias with fpBGAs. You can define these in Protel, but the autorouter knows only one standard via type. Either route the board manually or use something like SPECCTRA. Regards, Gisbert Auge Website Visitor [EMAIL PROTECTED] on 02.05.2001 22:38:01 Please respond to Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] cc: Subject: [PEDA] BGA Design Has anyone designed a fine pitch BGA, ~400pin, in Protel99SE? If so, what issues or difficulties did you encounter? Could it be done? My concern is with Protel's ability and ease of use in developing a large SMT design with BGAs, multiple via types, Via shapes, Paste mask aperatures. ie. how manufacturable the final result would be, how effective the use of design rules are Regards, Colin Weber Posted from Association web site by: Colin Weber * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BGA Design
-Original Message- From: Emanuel Zimmermann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] I agree with you except in using the Protel/Specctra combination! Or did you manage to export/import blind/burieds or all these fine design rule settings to/from Specctra? I failed and would be very interested in a way to solve this problem. Emanual, To get spectra to see your blind and burrried vias: Set up protel drill layers in the layer stack manager Set up via sizes and type under rules then seed a couple blind and burried vias outside of your design. Spectra will recognize them Mike Reagan EDSI Frederick MD * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BGA Design
Emanuel, some of the design rules export ok, others don't. Vias do, as for my experience. They don't translate back to Protel without problem, though, so you have to check and apply some glpbal changes to them after reimport, before you can do manual changes or ERC. So, I agree, it takes some pages of .do-file to write to be successful. But, when talking about SPECCTRA, did you find an alternative similarly mighty? I would appreciate to find one, as we need to upgrade our SPECCTRA license just now and their prices are extreme. Regards, Gisbert * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BGA Design
Gisbert, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, when talking about SPECCTRA, did you find an alternative similarly mighty? I would appreciate to find one, as we need to upgrade our SPECCTRA license just now and their prices are extreme. No, last time I was looking round for something similar was in the early 2000, so maybe there's something new on the market now. At this time I toyed with an evaluation copy of Specctra to eventually upgrade our old Specctra that is only a basic license (no ADV, DFM, HYB and FST). The main intention was to be able to autoroute blind/buried and to reduce manual work for fulfilling high speed and DFM rules. Mainly price and failing in exporting/importing blind/burieds has let us stay with our old basic Specctra. Michael, Thanks for the hint for exporting blind/burieds, maybe I have to do the evaluation again. Regards, Emanuel * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BGA Design
Emanuel, I use Protel, here is the forum email address http://groups.yahoo.com/group/protel-users/files/protelfaq.html If you can find out anything you need from layout problems to bug's. You will also get a faster response to your question then if you went to Protel directly. As for the set up for doing a ball grid in Protel, Do your fan out in the library and place the vias as well (if you plan to use the auto router, sometimes the tracks you lock have a tendency to move) Protel has a hard time with arcs as well. As for Spectra there are a few problems with importing the design when you have blind and buried vias. The forum archive can help you on that. If you use a lot of design rules have a lot of memory handy Protel will chew it up like a sumo wrestler at an all you can eat buffet. If you have any questions you can e-mail me and I will try to help all I can, but your best bet is to jump on the forum. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ted T -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 3:06 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] BGA Design Emanuel, some of the design rules export ok, others don't. Vias do, as for my experience. They don't translate back to Protel without problem, though, so you have to check and apply some glpbal changes to them after reimport, before you can do manual changes or ERC. So, I agree, it takes some pages of .do-file to write to be successful. But, when talking about SPECCTRA, did you find an alternative similarly mighty? I would appreciate to find one, as we need to upgrade our SPECCTRA license just now and their prices are extreme. Regards, Gisbert * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BGA Design
Sorry to everyone I thought this post came from another forum the IPC tech net. Hey it's FRI day Ted T -Original Message- From: Ted Tontis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 9:26 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] BGA Design Emanuel, I use Protel, here is the forum email address http://groups.yahoo.com/group/protel-users/files/protelfaq.html If you can find out anything you need from layout problems to bug's. You will also get a faster response to your question then if you went to Protel directly. As for the set up for doing a ball grid in Protel, Do your fan out in the library and place the vias as well (if you plan to use the auto router, sometimes the tracks you lock have a tendency to move) Protel has a hard time with arcs as well. As for Spectra there are a few problems with importing the design when you have blind and buried vias. The forum archive can help you on that. If you use a lot of design rules have a lot of memory handy Protel will chew it up like a sumo wrestler at an all you can eat buffet. If you have any questions you can e-mail me and I will try to help all I can, but your best bet is to jump on the forum. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ted T -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 3:06 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] BGA Design Emanuel, some of the design rules export ok, others don't. Vias do, as for my experience. They don't translate back to Protel without problem, though, so you have to check and apply some glpbal changes to them after reimport, before you can do manual changes or ERC. So, I agree, it takes some pages of .do-file to write to be successful. But, when talking about SPECCTRA, did you find an alternative similarly mighty? I would appreciate to find one, as we need to upgrade our SPECCTRA license just now and their prices are extreme. Regards, Gisbert * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BGA Design
What about Protel recently acquiring Tasking for 38 mill., or the recent partnership with P-CAD 2001 That will put a dent in you're pocket. Ted -Original Message- From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, May 04, 2001 3:56 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] BGA Design At 09:06 AM 5/4/01 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But, when talking about SPECCTRA, did you find an alternative similarly mighty? I would appreciate to find one, as we need to upgrade our SPECCTRA license just now and their prices are extreme. How about Protel a few months from now? The rumor is that Protel will soon be issuing a service pack with a major autorouter overhaul. A Protel employee indicated to me that he had used it and it was comparable to Specctra. Now, this is *rumor.* My memory might be bad, the employee might be exaggerating. But I think any Protel licensee who is now considering Specctra should be aware of the possibility that this rumor is true. After all, the price is right. If it does come out as a service pack, it's free to existing licensees. It might explain the coming price rise. An improved router would definitely be worth $2K more. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax P.O. Box 690 El Verano, CA 95433 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BGA Design
At 04:02 PM 5/4/01 -0500, Ted Tontis wrote: What about [...] the recent partnership with P-CAD 2001 [] Actually, if you go to buy a Protel license now, in the U.S. you order it from Accel Technologies. That's full circle from a dozen years ago. (It's not a partnership, Protel now owns Accel; I think it's 100%). [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax P.O. Box 690 El Verano, CA 95433 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] BGA Design
At 09:53 AM 5/7/01 +0100, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear Mr. Lomax, that would be good news, but is there any chance in getting this a little more precise? That's up to Protel. For all I know they could be upset that someone spilled the beans. Or they could be glad that a little information is getting out without committing them to anything specific. I haven't seen the new router. We'll know when it's in prerelease, I assume. That could happen any time. Or they might decide to make the router part of the coming upgrade, which would be a change from the leaked intention, and some of us would not be happy about it. It's up to them. I am doing a board just now which will be routed in 2 weeks or so, and we are at this moment in the process of deciding whether to spend another $20,000 for upgrading our elderly SPECCTRA license to V.10 with most available options. If I new some more details about the features of the new Protel router version, this would help a lot. Most important: Will the autorouter follow the PCB design rules (it ignores most of the rules in the up-to-date version)? Will it support autorouting of blind and buried vias, a must in dense fpBGA designs? Indications were that the router would follow design rules. Will it follow *all* of them? My guess is that they will miss some. But it will be much better than now. Will it handle blind/buried vias? We can hope so, but I don't recall if that was mentioned. I'd suggest not making a $20,000 decision based on a single board. I'd think you can get someone with the latest and greatest Specctra to route it for you for peanuts, comparatively. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax P.O. Box 690 El Verano, CA 95433 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
