Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE

2002-08-11 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax

At 03:44 PM 8/9/2002 -0700, Brad Velander wrote:
Abd ul-Rahman,
 Could you please elaborate on why you find it difficult to copy a
polygon to another layer?

temporary amnesia. :-) Thanks to Brad from me for reminding me.




* Tracking #: 5B38503CEC9DC14C9B9ACFED2BF68BD3EB17FB4D
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Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE

2002-08-11 Thread Brad Velander

 No problem guy,
   you know that we all have different ways of doing things so I was looking
to learn which method didn't work and out of it maybe something else.

Sincerely,
Brad Velander

-Original Message-
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
To: Protel EDA Forum
Sent: 11/08/2002 9:59 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE

At 03:44 PM 8/9/2002 -0700, Brad Velander wrote:
Abd ul-Rahman,
 Could you please elaborate on why you find it difficult to
copy a
polygon to another layer?

temporary amnesia. :-) Thanks to Brad from me for reminding me.


* Tracking #: 360318F7ACE0C3428727214A16CE4218ECFAD1BF
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[PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE

2002-08-09 Thread Katinka Mills

Hi all,

Quick Q,

I have a 2 layer PCB with top and bottom ground planes (like to balance up
my copper) how do I hilight dead copper, I do not want to remove it, just
need to see it so I can add vias to make it not dead :o)

Should be easy, but the help menu has no topic on dead copper (does not even
find the word dead ?? )

Regards,

Kat.

**
K.A.Q. Electronics.
Electronic and Software Engineering.
Perth, Western Australia.
Ph +61 (0) 419 923 731
**



* Tracking #: ACB1799E047E80499CA7990312B01378BD77700C
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Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE

2002-08-09 Thread Dennis Saputelli

select connected copper
Dennis Saputelli

Katinka Mills wrote:
 
 Hi all,
 
 Quick Q,
 
 I have a 2 layer PCB with top and bottom ground planes (like to balance up
 my copper) how do I hilight dead copper, I do not want to remove it, just
 need to see it so I can add vias to make it not dead :o)
 
 Should be easy, but the help menu has no topic on dead copper (does not even
 find the word dead ?? )
 
 Regards,
 
 Kat.
 
 **
 K.A.Q. Electronics.
 Electronic and Software Engineering.
 Perth, Western Australia.
 Ph +61 (0) 419 923 731
 **
 
 
 * Tracking #: ACB1799E047E80499CA7990312B01378BD77700C
 *
 

-- 
___
www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc.
   tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street  
  fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110

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Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE

2002-08-09 Thread Tony Karavidas

Do an Edit-Select-ConnectedCopper and you'll get a highlighted poly
plane for everything that IS connected. It will be obvious what IS NOT
connected and you can populate that with stitching vias or pads.

Tony


-Original Message-
From: Katinka Mills [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 9:42 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE


Hi all,

Quick Q,

I have a 2 layer PCB with top and bottom ground planes (like to balance
up my copper) how do I hilight dead copper, I do not want to remove it,
just need to see it so I can add vias to make it not dead :o)

Should be easy, but the help menu has no topic on dead copper (does not
even find the word dead ?? )

Regards,

Kat.

**
K.A.Q. Electronics.
Electronic and Software Engineering.
Perth, Western Australia.
Ph +61 (0) 419 923 731
**



* Tracking #: ACB1799E047E80499CA7990312B01378BD77700C
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Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE

2002-08-09 Thread David VanHorn

At 12:41 AM 8/10/2002 +0800, Katinka Mills wrote:
Hi all,

Quick Q,

I have a 2 layer PCB with top and bottom ground planes (like to balance up
my copper) how do I hilight dead copper, I do not want to remove it, just
need to see it so I can add vias to make it not dead :o)

Should be easy, but the help menu has no topic on dead copper (does not even
find the word dead ?? )

isolated copper?

I'm surprised that it generates isolated copper. I can't think of a good 
reason to do that..



* Tracking #: 6CBA8AFABF308645B4F4718F27AFD3FD2CCE213F
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Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE

2002-08-09 Thread Brad Velander

Tony,
that will only select copper connected to the single net that you
click on. You would have to individually click every net on the board to
highlight all copper other than the dead copper.

I did a quick test trying to globally select all copper that was no
net, it failed miserably. It was actually selecting copper that was
assigned to other nets. Don't know why but I didn't reply to Kat because my
test had failed trying to globally select no net copper. I had two pieces
of copper that were intentionally set to no net, my global selection
selected 5 pieces of copper, three were on another net. I think it is one of
those Protel features.

Sincerely,
Brad Velander.

Lead PCB Designer
Norsat International Inc.
Microwave Products
Tel   (604) 292-9089 (direct line)
Fax  (604) 292-9010
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.norsat.com


-Original Message-
From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 10:07 AM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE


Do an Edit-Select-ConnectedCopper and you'll get a highlighted poly
plane for everything that IS connected. It will be obvious what IS NOT
connected and you can populate that with stitching vias or pads.

Tony




* Tracking #: 9E286F365DB17543BFF96E0C042EFFA80ACA1686
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Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE

2002-08-09 Thread Brian Sherer

Deselect Remove Dead Copper on Polygon Pour Setup Dialog box.
Repour Polygon(s).

Brian

At 12:10 PM 8/9/02 -0500, you wrote:
At 12:41 AM 8/10/2002 +0800, Katinka Mills wrote:
Hi all,

Quick Q,

I have a 2 layer PCB with top and bottom ground planes (like to balance up
my copper) how do I hilight dead copper, I do not want to remove it, just
need to see it so I can add vias to make it not dead :o)

Should be easy, but the help menu has no topic on dead copper (does not even
find the word dead ?? )

isolated copper?

I'm surprised that it generates isolated copper. I can't think of a good 
reason to do that..



* Tracking #: 6CBA8AFABF308645B4F4718F27AFD3FD2CCE213F
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Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE

2002-08-09 Thread Brad Velander

A solution that just came to mind after re-reading the original post.

Generate your polygon with remove dead copper checked. After pouring select
the polygon and copy it to another layer without repouring. Regenerate the
original copper pour with remove dead copper unchecked. Turn on the two
layers with the polygons, use the original copied polygon as a mask to show
you the dead copper polygons. Repeat for other board layer and then delete
copied polygons when completed. You could use transparent layer viewing to
advantage with this method.

Sincerely,
Brad Velander.

Lead PCB Designer
Norsat International Inc.
Microwave Products
Tel   (604) 292-9089 (direct line)
Fax  (604) 292-9010
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.norsat.com


-Original Message-
From: David VanHorn [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 10:10 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum; Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE


At 12:41 AM 8/10/2002 +0800, Katinka Mills wrote:
Hi all,

Quick Q,

I have a 2 layer PCB with top and bottom ground planes (like to balance up
my copper) how do I hilight dead copper, I do not want to remove it, just
need to see it so I can add vias to make it not dead :o)

Should be easy, but the help menu has no topic on dead copper (does not
even
find the word dead ?? )

isolated copper?

I'm surprised that it generates isolated copper. I can't think of a good 
reason to do that..



* Tracking #: 297607521AC609468A67BE4F93A1BC5DEA558BAE
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Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE

2002-08-09 Thread Tony Karavidas

Yeah, I guess I was assuming the net connected to her power polygon has
a 'majority' of it connected.  

If she does what I indicated, it will be obvious what parts of her
polygon pour (which is a outer layer ground plane) are not actually
connected. It will also be obvious if two or more large sections are not
connected to each other (but a DRC should point that out quickly too) 

Tony


-Original Message-
From: Brad Velander [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 10:29 AM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE


Tony,
that will only select copper connected to the single net that
you click on. You would have to individually click every net on the
board to highlight all copper other than the dead copper.

I did a quick test trying to globally select all copper that was
no net, it failed miserably. It was actually selecting copper that was
assigned to other nets. Don't know why but I didn't reply to Kat because
my test had failed trying to globally select no net copper. I had two
pieces of copper that were intentionally set to no net, my global
selection selected 5 pieces of copper, three were on another net. I
think it is one of those Protel features.

Sincerely,
Brad Velander.

Lead PCB Designer
Norsat International Inc.
Microwave Products
Tel   (604) 292-9089 (direct line)
Fax  (604) 292-9010
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.norsat.com


-Original Message-
From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 10:07 AM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE


Do an Edit-Select-ConnectedCopper and you'll get a highlighted poly
plane for everything that IS connected. It will be obvious what IS NOT
connected and you can populate that with stitching vias or pads.

Tony




* Tracking #: 9E286F365DB17543BFF96E0C042EFFA80ACA1686
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Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE

2002-08-09 Thread Katinka Mills

First off thanks to all who responded :o)

 -Original Message-
 From: Brad Velander [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Saturday, 10 August 2002 1:29 AM
 To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
 Subject: Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE


 Tony,
   that will only select copper connected to the single net that you
 click on. You would have to individually click every net on the board to
 highlight all copper other than the dead copper.

   I did a quick test trying to globally select all copper that was no
 net, it failed miserably. It was actually selecting copper that was
 assigned to other nets. Don't know why but I didn't reply to Kat
 because my
 test had failed trying to globally select no net copper. I had
 two pieces
 of copper that were intentionally set to no net, my global selection
 selected 5 pieces of copper, three were on another net. I think
 it is one of
 those Protel features.

 Sincerely,
 Brad Velander.

 Lead PCB Designer
 Norsat International Inc.
 Microwave Products
 Tel   (604) 292-9089 (direct line)
 Fax  (604) 292-9010
 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 http://www.norsat.com


Hmmm another feature ;o)

OK all here is how i did it, and it worked for me YMMV I selected all copper
connected on the top layer, switched to botom and did the same, then placed
vias on each dead section, rebuilt top and botom planes seperately, and kept
repeating till I was happy I had the best coverage posible :o)

Thanks all once again :o)

I am off to bed it is 2:04am lol


Regards,

Kat.

**
K.A.Q. Electronics.
Electronic and Software Engineering.
Perth, Western Australia.
Ph +61 (0) 419 923 731
**

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Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE

2002-08-09 Thread Brad Velander

Tony,
if you read my message following this one that you replied to, you
will realize that I had misread the original message. Your method would
probably work as an inversion to the original request, highlighting the
connected polygon.

Sincerely,
Brad Velander.

Lead PCB Designer
Norsat International Inc.
Microwave Products
Tel   (604) 292-9089 (direct line)
Fax  (604) 292-9010
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.norsat.com


-Original Message-
From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 11:02 AM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE


Yeah, I guess I was assuming the net connected to her power polygon has
a 'majority' of it connected.  

If she does what I indicated, it will be obvious what parts of her
polygon pour (which is a outer layer ground plane) are not actually
connected. It will also be obvious if two or more large sections are not
connected to each other (but a DRC should point that out quickly too) 

Tony




* Tracking #: B43F029E68221540AECE9E243F69BAF7DD9B5BEA
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Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE

2002-08-09 Thread Brad Velander

Yeah Abd ul-Rahman,
I had thought of that as a possibility, just hadn't had time to test
that possibility.

Sincerely,
Brad Velander.

Lead PCB Designer
Norsat International Inc.
Microwave Products
Tel   (604) 292-9089 (direct line)
Fax  (604) 292-9010
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.norsat.com


-Original Message-
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 1:54 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE


It's a known bug, at leat I think it has been reported before. I don't 
recall all the details. It may be related to the bug that Mr. Velander has 
reported in the bug database (in the filespace for 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]), regarding polygon pours and no-net entities.



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Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE

2002-08-09 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax

At 12:41 AM 8/10/2002 +0800, Katinka Mills wrote:
I have a 2 layer PCB with top and bottom ground planes (like to balance up
my copper) how do I hilight dead copper, I do not want to remove it, just
need to see it so I can add vias to make it not dead :o)

As has been noted, there is a remove dead copper option in the polygon pour 
dialog. However, Ms. Mills does not want to remove said copper, but to 
connect it. I do this regularly.

It has been suggested to use select connected copper to highlite what is 
connected, thus leaving the unconnected polygon copper standing out like a 
sore thumb.

Unfortunately, select connected copper does not function where 
connections are made through vias to a power plane. However, connections 
made through a physical layer are selected by this command, so if this is a 
simple 2-layer board, it will work. A workaround would be to create an 
extra temporary inner layer and pour the entirely layer with the net in 
question. But that is probably more trouble than it is worth.

The job might be done, I think, a number of different ways.

I might simply examine the area of the polygon, wiht dead copper removed, 
for spots large enough to drop a via. This is easy to do with a via 
floating on the cursor and on-line DRC active. This is how I do it.

Note that the via, while it is floating, will show violations (if on-line 
DRC), but those will disappear if it is popped down onto a netted object 
(vias and pads generally take on the net of objects which they contact 
while being placed, if the placement does not create a short.)

If, while the via is floating, one hits TAB and assigns the pour net to the 
via, it will only show real violations, i.e., to other nets, perhaps on 
another layer.

(violating track on other layers will display under these conditions, 
making it fairly easy to find spaces that do not violate.)

Polygon primitives, while still associated with the polygon, are *not* 
assigned any net, which you can find by unlocking the polygon primitives so 
that they can be individually edited; rather the polygon as a whole carries 
the net. So in this respect, dead copper track and connected track are the 
same. Exploding the polygon with Tools/Convert assigns the net to all the 
polygon tracks, including any dead copper.

Normally, global edits can be done on no-net track to highlight it, but, 
as mentioned, all polygon track is no-net; Protel thus locks it out from 
global edits, just as it locks out polygon track from other global edits 
(for example, a global edit with width scope matching the polygon pour width).

However, I just discovered that if I unlock the primitives of a polygon, 
and double-click on one track, and then do a global edit on the track with 
net scope, all polygon track is highlighted, as well as all non-polygon 
no-net track. (Remember, all polygon track is no net, even if the polygon 
has a net.)

One might think that this could be used to copy all polygon track to 
another layer, but, n: selected polygon track is not placed on the 
clipboard by Edit/Copy/Click.

However, it is not difficult to copy a polygon to a mech layer (be sure to 
have dead copper removal turned off, or you will have a famous Protel 
Invisible Polygon, a general nuisance). Then one repours the original 
polygon with dead copper removed. In this way dead copper regions can be 
contrasted with connected ones. But normally this is not necessary, it is 
quite simple to look for empty regions within the area of a pour, as I 
mentioned above.

Select Net does *not* select polygons belonging to the net. Some of this 
behavior could really be classified as a bug, rather than as merely a 
missing feature.

There should be a check box in the polygon dialog allowing selected of the 
polygon. Instead more convoluted ways may be necessary in order to select a 
polygon for copy. Polygons will pick up (Leftclick-Drag), a fact that is 
more of a nuisance than a feature.

However, the Query Manager allows the selection of polygons by various 
criteria; but such a polygon cannot be copied to another layer without 
repouring it. If it is repoured, it takes on the shapes appropropriate to 
that layer. Furses, coiled again!

I do not find it easy to copy a polygon to another layer, keeping it poured 
exactly as it was originally poured, without also copying other stuff. It 
would probably be necessary to explode the polygon, I have not explored 
what happens, for example when selected polygon primitives are exploded.





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Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE

2002-08-09 Thread Brad Velander

Abd ul-Rahman,
Could you please elaborate on why you find it difficult to copy a
polygon to another layer? I can do it without any effort whatsoever. I knew
I had done it in the past. However what I had forgotten and just
rediscovered is that the polygon does not change layer colour until you
repour it which is one of things that you would not want to do in this
instance. So you would have the unchanged polygon on another layer but it
would look as though it is on the old layer colour-wise.

To copy the polygon I used the Shift-Click selection process,
Ctrl-Insert to copy, change layer to a mech layer, use Edit Paste special
with paste on current layer checked, click where you want it. When it asks
to repour the polygon, click no.

The rest of the process is:
Once it is pasted on the layer that you want it on, first deselect
all to clear all prior selections.
Then edit the copied polygon properties to unlock the primitives,
DON'T REPOUR.
Use Select Connected Copper on the copied polygon primitives.
Edit one polygon track and globally change the layer of all selected
polygon tracks using selection Same, deselect all.
You now have a copy of your precise polygon on a mech layer in the
correct colour for the mechanical layer you copied it to.
During the global edit of the copied polygon primitives you can also
change their net or other characteristics if that did anything for you.

Once you know the steps, you could copy the poured polygon to a mech
or other layer without changing it's shape in approx. 10 seconds flat.

Sincerely,
Brad Velander.

Lead PCB Designer
Norsat International Inc.
Microwave Products
Tel   (604) 292-9089 (direct line)
Fax  (604) 292-9010
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.norsat.com


-Original Message-
From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 2:53 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum; Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Highlighting dead copper on P99SE


SNIP
I do not find it easy to copy a polygon to another layer, keeping it poured 
exactly as it was originally poured, without also copying other stuff. It 
would probably be necessary to explode the polygon, I have not explored 
what happens, for example when selected polygon primitives are exploded.
SNIP


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