Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion
Not to be misled by my email I actually work in Australia, as does the contractor who worked on this conversion. From memory the job was to bring Protel libraries and netlist from Protel hierarchical schematics into Mentor Expedition (formally Veribest) and place then route the design. The completed design was then to be converted back into Protel. The forward translation went very well. We haven't received the translation back into ProtelSE as yet. The idea was to evaluate Veribest and it's router for our large designs. Protel just seems to be taking us too long on these jobs for our time-to-market needs. The design was mixed analog, digital and HV, and physically quite large. The original quote for this job was around AUD$7.5k I think this crept up to $10k by the time we made the usual last minute mods. Remember though, this was for the layout, route and translation. The contractor quoted something in the order of $1 to 1.5k for the translation component only. Fortunately for us the contractor I used has the forward translator already. We used his services to test this translator just as much as the Veribest package. He has to purchase the backwards translator before we can go back. It will probably be a couple of weeks before we translate back. I'll keep you posted. At the end of the day I feel we are still best off doing our own layout. We didn't seem to save any time with that. The routing still appears to be where the time can be cut. I have evaluated Specctra as best able within Cadences eval. license. It certainly appears to offer another solution and I dare say we'll try that next. If your reading this, I haven't forgotten your services there Mike. Regards, Colin Weber Varian Australia Pty Ltd At 09:28 AM 16/08/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Hi All, > >Thanks for all the responses. >Colin what did your contractor charge for the conversion? >Please let me know if the "back to Protel" conversion goes as well as >the to Allegro conversion. >Also RSI's web site says it handles Protel 2.8,V3 and V4 it's just hard >to justify the price. > > >Regards, >Jim McGrath >CAD Connections, Inc. > >Colin Weber wrote: > > > I have used the extract command of Allegro and it works well. From memory, > > It has > > more options than just the text interface it present the user with. You can > > drive it > > without the interface. I found converting the data it presented (using AWK > > at the time) > > still took some time to do. The way libraries are managed presented > problems. > > This may be something to be aware of when wanting to match libraries in > Protel, > > if using this method. > > > > The contractor I had translate a Protel PCB into Veribest/Mentor using the > > RSI tool > > said the conversion from Protel went well and had little rework to make the > > translation > > complete. However, going back to Protel is where he was skeptical and > hasn't as > > yet tried. If you'd like I'll keep you posted when he gets around to trying > > this. > > > > I have also realised that at the time of posting my last email you would be > > using > > a late version of Cadence as the older ones had Y2K issues. > > > > At 05:31 PM 15/08/2001 -0400, you wrote: > > >The problem may not be just limited to protel ascii 2.8 limitations. > > > > > >There are a few homebrew options but some may seem more impractical than > > >others > > > > > > > > >5) purchase said package in (4) or get that company to provide you with > > >following: > > > > > >there is an extract utility (I forget the name of itcds_extract??? > > >allegro_extract???) that comes with the Cadence tools that will directly > > >read the binary brd file and give you a text file of the extracted > > >primitives... A PERL script could make breakfast out of that and > convert it > > >to protel ascii > > > > > >the extract utility uses a text file to describe what kind of > information to > > >extract from the brd file and then generates said output text file... > > > > > >6) use router solutions inc. > > > > > > > > >Allegro is super powerful while protel's UI is far superior and makes > boards > > >a joy > > >-chris > > > > Regards, > > > > Colin Weber * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion
The conversion back into allegro would be interesting on text file basis I would write it into a clip file language format and then generate a script (*.scr) file to put testpoints back in (if there are test points) But other than that, since it has been a while since I have touched allegro, and am fuzzy on its other back door import capabilities (I suppose one could bring it back in with a wire file or somesuch as seen from Specctra)... -chris -Original Message- From: Jim McGrath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 16, 2001 12:29 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion Hi All, Thanks for all the responses. Colin what did your contractor charge for the conversion? Please let me know if the "back to Protel" conversion goes as well as the to Allegro conversion. Also RSI's web site says it handles Protel 2.8,V3 and V4 it's just hard to justify the price. Regards, Jim McGrath CAD Connections, Inc. Colin Weber wrote: > I have used the extract command of Allegro and it works well. From memory, > It has > more options than just the text interface it present the user with. You can > drive it > without the interface. I found converting the data it presented (using AWK > at the time) > still took some time to do. The way libraries are managed presented problems. > This may be something to be aware of when wanting to match libraries in Protel, > if using this method. > > The contractor I had translate a Protel PCB into Veribest/Mentor using the > RSI tool > said the conversion from Protel went well and had little rework to make the > translation > complete. However, going back to Protel is where he was skeptical and hasn't as > yet tried. If you'd like I'll keep you posted when he gets around to trying > this. > > I have also realised that at the time of posting my last email you would be > using > a late version of Cadence as the older ones had Y2K issues. > > At 05:31 PM 15/08/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >The problem may not be just limited to protel ascii 2.8 limitations. > > > >There are a few homebrew options but some may seem more impractical than > >others > > > > > >5) purchase said package in (4) or get that company to provide you with > >following: > > > >there is an extract utility (I forget the name of itcds_extract??? > >allegro_extract???) that comes with the Cadence tools that will directly > >read the binary brd file and give you a text file of the extracted > >primitives... A PERL script could make breakfast out of that and convert it > >to protel ascii > > > >the extract utility uses a text file to describe what kind of information to > >extract from the brd file and then generates said output text file... > > > >6) use router solutions inc. > > > > > >Allegro is super powerful while protel's UI is far superior and makes boards > >a joy > >-chris > > Regards, > > Colin Weber * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion
Hi All, Thanks for all the responses. Colin what did your contractor charge for the conversion? Please let me know if the "back to Protel" conversion goes as well as the to Allegro conversion. Also RSI's web site says it handles Protel 2.8,V3 and V4 it's just hard to justify the price. Regards, Jim McGrath CAD Connections, Inc. Colin Weber wrote: > I have used the extract command of Allegro and it works well. From memory, > It has > more options than just the text interface it present the user with. You can > drive it > without the interface. I found converting the data it presented (using AWK > at the time) > still took some time to do. The way libraries are managed presented problems. > This may be something to be aware of when wanting to match libraries in Protel, > if using this method. > > The contractor I had translate a Protel PCB into Veribest/Mentor using the > RSI tool > said the conversion from Protel went well and had little rework to make the > translation > complete. However, going back to Protel is where he was skeptical and hasn't as > yet tried. If you'd like I'll keep you posted when he gets around to trying > this. > > I have also realised that at the time of posting my last email you would be > using > a late version of Cadence as the older ones had Y2K issues. > > At 05:31 PM 15/08/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >The problem may not be just limited to protel ascii 2.8 limitations. > > > >There are a few homebrew options but some may seem more impractical than > >others > > > > > >5) purchase said package in (4) or get that company to provide you with > >following: > > > >there is an extract utility (I forget the name of itcds_extract??? > >allegro_extract???) that comes with the Cadence tools that will directly > >read the binary brd file and give you a text file of the extracted > >primitives... A PERL script could make breakfast out of that and convert it > >to protel ascii > > > >the extract utility uses a text file to describe what kind of information to > >extract from the brd file and then generates said output text file... > > > >6) use router solutions inc. > > > > > >Allegro is super powerful while protel's UI is far superior and makes boards > >a joy > >-chris > > Regards, > > Colin Weber * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion
All, If someone can send me the Alegro file format I will modify my CadSTAR converter to also convert Alegro in to Protel. Rgds Steve F >From: "Jim McGrath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion >Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:47:27 -0700 > >Bob, > >I don't know what Allegro goes for but the converter I researched was >$11,400 to go both ways. Ouch! > >Jim McGrath >CAD Connections Inc. > >Bob Jones wrote: > > > Hi Jim, > > I guess nobody cares about your Allegro problems > > What's cheaper the converter or Allegro? > > > > Bob Jones > > Digitized Technologies > > 2 Summit Road > > P.O.Box 7284 > > Prospect, CT. 06712-1541 > > Tel: 203-758-6312 > > Fax: 203-758-3338 > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Notice: This message is intended solely for the person to whom it > > is addressed. Unintended recipients will be legally responsible for > > unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or distribution. If you have > > received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately > > by replying to this message. Then delete this message from your > > system. Thank you. > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Jim McGrath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 1:37 PM > > Subject: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I have a request from a customer to take in their Alegro PCB files and > > > modify/finish work that has been started in house. I am aware of > > > Router Solutions but have been told it converts to 2.8. Does anybody > > > have practical experience as to the completeness of the conversion > > > and weaknesses/strengths of the conversion? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Jim McGrath > > > CAD Connections, Inc. > > > _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion
Yes, please keep posted... I still occasionally work for a service bureau that uses Allegro/Mentor/Valor/SpecctraQuest/CCT (even though I really am an EE that writes software for a living rather than lay out boards for a living)... yes, some of these "scripts" can take some time to write... especially if it not a throw away script and needs to be used by others... I wrote the netlist translator in about 5~10 minutes in straight PERL (then spiffed it up for others to use for another 10~20 minutes). But now PERL has an object oriented extension to which objectified reusability may contribute to less time to write some (almost application class) proper code to do some of the more mundane bi-directional munging... Since I do not own Allegro, if someone gave me a simple extract file of a simple multi layer board and an example protel ascii version of the same, then I should be able to write a bi-dir mungifier... Of course a recursive decent parser generated by lex/yacc type grammar rules could make the work even faster! oddly enough, a module of such does exist for PERL... caveat programmor... Cheers, -chris -Original Message- From: Colin Weber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:07 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion I have used the extract command of Allegro and it works well. From memory, It has more options than just the text interface it present the user with. You can drive it without the interface. I found converting the data it presented (using AWK at the time) still took some time to do. The way libraries are managed presented problems. This may be something to be aware of when wanting to match libraries in Protel, if using this method. The contractor I had translate a Protel PCB into Veribest/Mentor using the RSI tool said the conversion from Protel went well and had little rework to make the translation complete. However, going back to Protel is where he was skeptical and hasn't as yet tried. If you'd like I'll keep you posted when he gets around to trying this. I have also realised that at the time of posting my last email you would be using a late version of Cadence as the older ones had Y2K issues. At 05:31 PM 15/08/2001 -0400, you wrote: >The problem may not be just limited to protel ascii 2.8 limitations. > >There are a few homebrew options but some may seem more impractical than >others > > >5) purchase said package in (4) or get that company to provide you with >following: > >there is an extract utility (I forget the name of itcds_extract??? >allegro_extract???) that comes with the Cadence tools that will directly >read the binary brd file and give you a text file of the extracted >primitives... A PERL script could make breakfast out of that and convert it >to protel ascii > >the extract utility uses a text file to describe what kind of information to >extract from the brd file and then generates said output text file... > >6) use router solutions inc. > > >Allegro is super powerful while protel's UI is far superior and makes boards >a joy >-chris Regards, Colin Weber * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion
> and saved them. Not that it would have done me any good. We did keep the > original > design files and stored them in the company fire proof safe. BUT, some > idiot decided > to clean up the safe and through them out, along with other vital stuff!!! Well then, put it someplace safe from the pointy-haired boss! Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: "Colin Weber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion > Ivan, > > I totally agree with your comments. Looking back I wish I'd created ASCII > versions > and saved them. Not that it would have done me any good. We did keep the > original > design files and stored them in the company fire proof safe. BUT, some > idiot decided > to clean up the safe and through them out, along with other vital stuff!!! > Ironically it > turned out to be someone high up the food chain, so nothing was done about it. > > I did have a few other things against me. The licenses ran on Unix and the old > workstations were becoming hard (read, expensive to a new share driven company) > to maintain. The licenses also expired in Dec 1999. Why don't we own > software we > pay over $180k for? > > > > At 06:18 PM 15/08/2001 -0400, you wrote: > >I have a few thoughts on file conversions that might be of help. Of course, > >this probably won't help you with your problem now. But going forward into > >the future, it might. > > > >Rule #1: NEVER get rid of your old CAD program software. Keep the original > >media and make a backup copy every 2-4 years or so. This goes for the OS it > >runs on, too. > > > >Rule #2: If someone wants to clean house and get rid of old software, see > >rule #1. If your company leases vault space, you might consider putting > >software in it to prevent it being thrown out. > > > >Rule #3: Save some non-native format versions of your CAD files. For > >example, a Protel SCH should be saved also as a ASCII file, a DXF, and a > >PDF. That way you can at least print a fresh copy when the old ones have > >been worn out or lost. > > > >Rule #4: For any current (still shipping) designs that you may want to > >revise, bring your CAD data forward into the latest > >Protel version. But DO NOT delete your old Protel version CAD files. > > > >Rule #5: Make new archival copies of CAD data every 2-4 years on whatever > >the current media is (yesterday floppies, today CD-R, tomorrow who knows?). > > > >Rule #6: Keep a PC that is capable of running those old CAD programs should > >you need to resort to one. This is easy now since the PC is still king, but > >when the X86 architecture is left behind, you're going to need that old > >dinosaur PC. > > > >This week I am going through my old designs (some of which date back to > >1989) and bringing them forward. It would be much more difficult if I > >didn't still have those old CAD programs. I tried that eCapture thing to > >bring Orcad files forward to Orcad DSN format, but never could get it to > >work. It was easier to use SDT3 itself to make SRC libs to import into > >Protel v3.X. Then I saved it in Protel 3.X format and imported it into > >Protel 99SE. Some cleanup was required, but the results were pretty good. > >Why did Protel not put the ability to import Orcad SDT3 schematics in 99SE; > >it was in 3.X? > > > >Every gizmo you ever design will be a legacy item some day. So, keep all > >your Protel versions! And other CAD program versions! > > > >Best regards, > >Ivan Baggett > >Bagotronix Inc. > >website: www.bagotronix.com > > > > > >- Original Message - > >From: "Colin Weber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 5:41 PM > >Subject: Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > What version of Allegro are you trying to convert from? > > > > > > The reason I ask is that we have files in version 8.x from 6 years ago. > > > When I investigated > > > converting these to Protel it didn't appear possible. Cadence themselves > > > could only bring > > > our old version files into their latest version be iterating through every > > > version of software they > > > produced since version 8, one at a time, all separate installations. > > > Needless to say t
Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion
Ivan, I totally agree with your comments. Looking back I wish I'd created ASCII versions and saved them. Not that it would have done me any good. We did keep the original design files and stored them in the company fire proof safe. BUT, some idiot decided to clean up the safe and through them out, along with other vital stuff!!! Ironically it turned out to be someone high up the food chain, so nothing was done about it. I did have a few other things against me. The licenses ran on Unix and the old workstations were becoming hard (read, expensive to a new share driven company) to maintain. The licenses also expired in Dec 1999. Why don't we own software we pay over $180k for? At 06:18 PM 15/08/2001 -0400, you wrote: >I have a few thoughts on file conversions that might be of help. Of course, >this probably won't help you with your problem now. But going forward into >the future, it might. > >Rule #1: NEVER get rid of your old CAD program software. Keep the original >media and make a backup copy every 2-4 years or so. This goes for the OS it >runs on, too. > >Rule #2: If someone wants to clean house and get rid of old software, see >rule #1. If your company leases vault space, you might consider putting >software in it to prevent it being thrown out. > >Rule #3: Save some non-native format versions of your CAD files. For >example, a Protel SCH should be saved also as a ASCII file, a DXF, and a >PDF. That way you can at least print a fresh copy when the old ones have >been worn out or lost. > >Rule #4: For any current (still shipping) designs that you may want to >revise, bring your CAD data forward into the latest >Protel version. But DO NOT delete your old Protel version CAD files. > >Rule #5: Make new archival copies of CAD data every 2-4 years on whatever >the current media is (yesterday floppies, today CD-R, tomorrow who knows?). > >Rule #6: Keep a PC that is capable of running those old CAD programs should >you need to resort to one. This is easy now since the PC is still king, but >when the X86 architecture is left behind, you're going to need that old >dinosaur PC. > >This week I am going through my old designs (some of which date back to >1989) and bringing them forward. It would be much more difficult if I >didn't still have those old CAD programs. I tried that eCapture thing to >bring Orcad files forward to Orcad DSN format, but never could get it to >work. It was easier to use SDT3 itself to make SRC libs to import into >Protel v3.X. Then I saved it in Protel 3.X format and imported it into >Protel 99SE. Some cleanup was required, but the results were pretty good. >Why did Protel not put the ability to import Orcad SDT3 schematics in 99SE; >it was in 3.X? > >Every gizmo you ever design will be a legacy item some day. So, keep all >your Protel versions! And other CAD program versions! > >Best regards, >Ivan Baggett >Bagotronix Inc. >website: www.bagotronix.com > > >----- Original Message - >From: "Colin Weber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 5:41 PM >Subject: Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion > > > > Folks, > > > > What version of Allegro are you trying to convert from? > > > > The reason I ask is that we have files in version 8.x from 6 years ago. > > When I investigated > > converting these to Protel it didn't appear possible. Cadence themselves > > could only bring > > our old version files into their latest version be iterating through every > > version of software they > > produced since version 8, one at a time, all separate installations. > > Needless to say that also > > required a great deal of sucking up and money to accomplish. > > > > We now have a contractor manually convert any old files we need to rework, > > depending > > upon the level of changes. Other than that all the legacy files are kept >in > > CAM350 as > > Gerbers. We did keep the netlists which makes the checking easier when > > redrawing the > > schematics into Protel. > > > > To summarise, from our investigations, apart from the converter you >mention > > below, I am > > not aware of any other solutions. Version 2.8 of Protel is the only >version > > RSI seem to > > support. We have a design from Veribest/Mentor RSI have a translator for, > > and it too is > > for version 2.8. > > > > > > At 02:47 PM 15/08/2001 -0700, you wrote: > > >Bob, > > > > > >I don't know what Allegro goes for but the converter I researched was > > >$11,400 to go both ways
Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion
I have a few thoughts on file conversions that might be of help. Of course, this probably won't help you with your problem now. But going forward into the future, it might. Rule #1: NEVER get rid of your old CAD program software. Keep the original media and make a backup copy every 2-4 years or so. This goes for the OS it runs on, too. Rule #2: If someone wants to clean house and get rid of old software, see rule #1. If your company leases vault space, you might consider putting software in it to prevent it being thrown out. Rule #3: Save some non-native format versions of your CAD files. For example, a Protel SCH should be saved also as a ASCII file, a DXF, and a PDF. That way you can at least print a fresh copy when the old ones have been worn out or lost. Rule #4: For any current (still shipping) designs that you may want to revise, bring your CAD data forward into the latest Protel version. But DO NOT delete your old Protel version CAD files. Rule #5: Make new archival copies of CAD data every 2-4 years on whatever the current media is (yesterday floppies, today CD-R, tomorrow who knows?). Rule #6: Keep a PC that is capable of running those old CAD programs should you need to resort to one. This is easy now since the PC is still king, but when the X86 architecture is left behind, you're going to need that old dinosaur PC. This week I am going through my old designs (some of which date back to 1989) and bringing them forward. It would be much more difficult if I didn't still have those old CAD programs. I tried that eCapture thing to bring Orcad files forward to Orcad DSN format, but never could get it to work. It was easier to use SDT3 itself to make SRC libs to import into Protel v3.X. Then I saved it in Protel 3.X format and imported it into Protel 99SE. Some cleanup was required, but the results were pretty good. Why did Protel not put the ability to import Orcad SDT3 schematics in 99SE; it was in 3.X? Every gizmo you ever design will be a legacy item some day. So, keep all your Protel versions! And other CAD program versions! Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: "Colin Weber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 5:41 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion > Folks, > > What version of Allegro are you trying to convert from? > > The reason I ask is that we have files in version 8.x from 6 years ago. > When I investigated > converting these to Protel it didn't appear possible. Cadence themselves > could only bring > our old version files into their latest version be iterating through every > version of software they > produced since version 8, one at a time, all separate installations. > Needless to say that also > required a great deal of sucking up and money to accomplish. > > We now have a contractor manually convert any old files we need to rework, > depending > upon the level of changes. Other than that all the legacy files are kept in > CAM350 as > Gerbers. We did keep the netlists which makes the checking easier when > redrawing the > schematics into Protel. > > To summarise, from our investigations, apart from the converter you mention > below, I am > not aware of any other solutions. Version 2.8 of Protel is the only version > RSI seem to > support. We have a design from Veribest/Mentor RSI have a translator for, > and it too is > for version 2.8. > > > At 02:47 PM 15/08/2001 -0700, you wrote: > >Bob, > > > >I don't know what Allegro goes for but the converter I researched was > >$11,400 to go both ways. Ouch! > > > >Jim McGrath > >CAD Connections Inc. > > > >Bob Jones wrote: > > > > > Hi Jim, > > > I guess nobody cares about your Allegro problems > > > What's cheaper the converter or Allegro? > > > > > > Bob Jones > > > Digitized Technologies > > > 2 Summit Road > > > P.O.Box 7284 > > > Prospect, CT. 06712-1541 > > > Tel: 203-758-6312 > > > Fax: 203-758-3338 > > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Notice: This message is intended solely for the person to whom it > > > is addressed. Unintended recipients will be legally responsible for > > > unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or distribution. If you have > > > received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately > > > by replying to this message. Then delete this message from your > > > system. Thank you. > > > > > > - Original Message - > > > From: "Jim McGrath" <[EMAIL PROTE
Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion
I have used the extract command of Allegro and it works well. From memory, It has more options than just the text interface it present the user with. You can drive it without the interface. I found converting the data it presented (using AWK at the time) still took some time to do. The way libraries are managed presented problems. This may be something to be aware of when wanting to match libraries in Protel, if using this method. The contractor I had translate a Protel PCB into Veribest/Mentor using the RSI tool said the conversion from Protel went well and had little rework to make the translation complete. However, going back to Protel is where he was skeptical and hasn't as yet tried. If you'd like I'll keep you posted when he gets around to trying this. I have also realised that at the time of posting my last email you would be using a late version of Cadence as the older ones had Y2K issues. At 05:31 PM 15/08/2001 -0400, you wrote: >The problem may not be just limited to protel ascii 2.8 limitations. > >There are a few homebrew options but some may seem more impractical than >others > > >5) purchase said package in (4) or get that company to provide you with >following: > >there is an extract utility (I forget the name of itcds_extract??? >allegro_extract???) that comes with the Cadence tools that will directly >read the binary brd file and give you a text file of the extracted >primitives... A PERL script could make breakfast out of that and convert it >to protel ascii > >the extract utility uses a text file to describe what kind of information to >extract from the brd file and then generates said output text file... > >6) use router solutions inc. > > >Allegro is super powerful while protel's UI is far superior and makes boards >a joy >-chris Regards, Colin Weber * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion
Folks, What version of Allegro are you trying to convert from? The reason I ask is that we have files in version 8.x from 6 years ago. When I investigated converting these to Protel it didn't appear possible. Cadence themselves could only bring our old version files into their latest version be iterating through every version of software they produced since version 8, one at a time, all separate installations. Needless to say that also required a great deal of sucking up and money to accomplish. We now have a contractor manually convert any old files we need to rework, depending upon the level of changes. Other than that all the legacy files are kept in CAM350 as Gerbers. We did keep the netlists which makes the checking easier when redrawing the schematics into Protel. To summarise, from our investigations, apart from the converter you mention below, I am not aware of any other solutions. Version 2.8 of Protel is the only version RSI seem to support. We have a design from Veribest/Mentor RSI have a translator for, and it too is for version 2.8. At 02:47 PM 15/08/2001 -0700, you wrote: >Bob, > >I don't know what Allegro goes for but the converter I researched was >$11,400 to go both ways. Ouch! > >Jim McGrath >CAD Connections Inc. > >Bob Jones wrote: > > > Hi Jim, > > I guess nobody cares about your Allegro problems > > What's cheaper the converter or Allegro? > > > > Bob Jones > > Digitized Technologies > > 2 Summit Road > > P.O.Box 7284 > > Prospect, CT. 06712-1541 > > Tel: 203-758-6312 > > Fax: 203-758-3338 > > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Notice: This message is intended solely for the person to whom it > > is addressed. Unintended recipients will be legally responsible for > > unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or distribution. If you have > > received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately > > by replying to this message. Then delete this message from your > > system. Thank you. > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Jim McGrath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 1:37 PM > > Subject: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > I have a request from a customer to take in their Alegro PCB files and > > > modify/finish work that has been started in house. I am aware of > > > Router Solutions but have been told it converts to 2.8. Does anybody > > > have practical experience as to the completeness of the conversion > > > and weaknesses/strengths of the conversion? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Jim McGrath > > > CAD Connections, Inc. > > > Regards, Colin Weber * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion
The problem may not be just limited to protel ascii 2.8 limitations. There are a few homebrew options but some may seem more impractical than others 1) get a clip file of the allegro board write a clip file parser that handles the recursive LISP like structure of clip language.. NOTE: clip files usually do not transfer test points (I had to learn that one the hard way and write a PERL script to extract and offset multiple test points into a clip'ed cut and paste multichannel board to fix that)... 2) export the board to CCT/Specctra router (allegro v.13 and v.14 make this easier in File menu)... export wires etc. Also will need to export pick and place and make sure origins are same between allegro lib and protel lib. (or write quickie PERL *.dsn file LISP like parser into ASCII for protel)... (the netlist info and primitive stuff is in there) 3) generate allegro artwork... import gerbers into protel... maybe use pick and place as well... key here is that libraries have to match... I dunno if the IPC netlisting features will help here or not... plus last I knew Cadence's IPC netlister had a few bugs... you can also use a netlist exported from a net_out in Allegro, but you will need a converter (I used to have a protel-to-allegro netlist munger written in PERL, but I can't find it... but it wouldn't be too hard to write one going the other way in PERL) or you could do the munging with search and replaces in Word or some such... then maybe (re)generate/compare netlist from copper... perhaps you would group pad primitives into components from the gerbers and make pick and place library matching moot (usually a *.dsn would have the primitive boundaries in it) 4) I'm going from a couple of years ago memory... Don't quote me Buy Cadence's Design Studio (?)... it was on sale for a while (If I recall) for $4k to $5k USD (much cheaper than protel)... from what I undertand, it contains OrCad, Specctra (limited to 6 layers... at a time ;-), and Allegro... I think it was supposed to be Cadence's answer to shrink wrapped EDA software There must be a conversion path from that to Protel (some more convenient than others)... there may need to be some data massaging but since most of cadence's things are text file based, it is easier especially with PERL and knowing a good PERL programmer If you have the Allegro *.brd file... it should convert it to the necessary text as below... 5) purchase said package in (4) or get that company to provide you with following: there is an extract utility (I forget the name of itcds_extract??? allegro_extract???) that comes with the Cadence tools that will directly read the binary brd file and give you a text file of the extracted primitives... A PERL script could make breakfast out of that and convert it to protel ascii the extract utility uses a text file to describe what kind of information to extract from the brd file and then generates said output text file... 6) use router solutions inc. Allegro is super powerful while protel's UI is far superior and makes boards a joy -chris -Original Message- From: Jim McGrath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 5:47 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion Bob, I don't know what Allegro goes for but the converter I researched was $11,400 to go both ways. Ouch! Jim McGrath CAD Connections Inc. Bob Jones wrote: > Hi Jim, > I guess nobody cares about your Allegro problems > What's cheaper the converter or Allegro? > > Bob Jones > Digitized Technologies > 2 Summit Road > P.O.Box 7284 > Prospect, CT. 06712-1541 > Tel: 203-758-6312 > Fax: 203-758-3338 > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Notice: This message is intended solely for the person to whom it > is addressed. Unintended recipients will be legally responsible for > unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or distribution. If you have > received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately > by replying to this message. Then delete this message from your > system. Thank you. > > - Original Message - > From: "Jim McGrath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 1:37 PM > Subject: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion > > > Hi All, > > > > I have a request from a customer to take in their Alegro PCB files and > > modify/finish work that has been started in house. I am aware of > > Router Solutions but have been told it converts to 2.8. Does anybody > > have practical experience as to the completeness of the conversion > > and weaknesses/strengths of the conversion? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim McGrath > > CAD Connections, Inc. > >
Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion
Bob, I don't know what Allegro goes for but the converter I researched was $11,400 to go both ways. Ouch! Jim McGrath CAD Connections Inc. Bob Jones wrote: > Hi Jim, > I guess nobody cares about your Allegro problems > What's cheaper the converter or Allegro? > > Bob Jones > Digitized Technologies > 2 Summit Road > P.O.Box 7284 > Prospect, CT. 06712-1541 > Tel: 203-758-6312 > Fax: 203-758-3338 > email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Notice: This message is intended solely for the person to whom it > is addressed. Unintended recipients will be legally responsible for > unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or distribution. If you have > received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately > by replying to this message. Then delete this message from your > system. Thank you. > > - Original Message - > From: "Jim McGrath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 1:37 PM > Subject: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion > > > Hi All, > > > > I have a request from a customer to take in their Alegro PCB files and > > modify/finish work that has been started in house. I am aware of > > Router Solutions but have been told it converts to 2.8. Does anybody > > have practical experience as to the completeness of the conversion > > and weaknesses/strengths of the conversion? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Jim McGrath > > CAD Connections, Inc. > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion
Hi Jim, I guess nobody cares about your Allegro problems What's cheaper the converter or Allegro? Bob Jones Digitized Technologies 2 Summit Road P.O.Box 7284 Prospect, CT. 06712-1541 Tel: 203-758-6312 Fax: 203-758-3338 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Notice: This message is intended solely for the person to whom it is addressed. Unintended recipients will be legally responsible for unauthorized use, disclosure, copying or distribution. If you have received this message in error, please notify the sender immediately by replying to this message. Then delete this message from your system. Thank you. - Original Message - From: "Jim McGrath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2001 1:37 PM Subject: [PEDA] Alegro Conversion > Hi All, > > I have a request from a customer to take in their Alegro PCB files and > modify/finish work that has been started in house. I am aware of > Router Solutions but have been told it converts to 2.8. Does anybody > have practical experience as to the completeness of the conversion > and weaknesses/strengths of the conversion? > > Thanks, > > Jim McGrath > CAD Connections, Inc. > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
