Re: [PEDA] Fwd: OS bugs WAS: Problems with schematic annotate function. Linux Added.
Jason Van Dellen wrote: So, you're saying Protel 99SE works well under Win4Lin? Yes, but you still need the cab files and a Lisence. Yes, I knew that. I tried VMware a while ago and found it very bulky and slow, is that still the case? It would have to be remarkably bulky to fill up my 20 GB disk. The rpm file is just under 10 MB, which is pretty big. As for the size of all the installed files, I really don't know. This does include the documentation. As for speed, I think it runs as fast as Win2K on the native hardware, although it is a little hard to tell. A 1 GHz machine is so fast, unless you time autoroutes or something, I don't know how to accurately gauge performance. I certainly am NOT complaining, it is plenty fast enough running Protel 99SE for my needs! Jon * Tracking #: CC2FC2022F2624419B7D8086D7171D8C3F7E2A93 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fwd: OS bugs WAS: Problems with schematic annotate function. Linux Added.
As for speed, I think it runs as fast as Win2K on the native hardware, although it is a little hard to tell. A 1 GHz machine is so fast Yeah, a 1Ghz is much faster then my Dual 300. I was trying out the VMware demo a few years ago and found it slow and the price tag too high. They've probably made a lot of changes since I tried it last though. When I found win4lin1.0 and tested the demo, I found it much faster and the price tag affordable. The price at that time was only $40US compared to $400US for VMware. (Or at least that's what I remember it to be). So I went with Win4Lin and if you haven't noticed yet, I'm very happy with it. :) Jason * Tracking #: E3B9E1A8ABE67A40ABF8D27AD2360C35D6F39851 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fwd: OS bugs WAS: Problems with schematic annotate function. Linux Added.
Jason Van Dellen wrote: If I need to run Windows Apps(eg Protel), I run Win4Lin. http://www.netraverse.com/ So, you're saying Protel 99SE works well under Win4Lin? I've been running it under Win2K in a VMWare virtual machine, but if I can skip all that, it may be a lot better than running (and managing) two whole OSs. Jon * Tracking #: 519020D84E31744E9994D9092416F61ABC4095DB * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fwd: OS bugs WAS: Problems with schematic annotate function. Linux Added.
Igor Gmitrovic wrote: Don, for the same reasons I see Protel (ie Altium) starting to lose thier user base. With the ATS useless and increase in prices people will start looking elsewhere. How could they explain charging us for the ATS and then they claim to stop support for the P99SE. What do they want us to pay them for? What bugs have they fixed so far, does anyone know? Have they fixed schematic annotation? I wonder if Mr. Protel (excuse' moa, Altium) knows what's happening in the field and how much would their management care anyway. There were number of other people in this forum with the views similar to mine. If they don't change something it looks to me they are going M$ way, down. Slowly, but surely. Well, if they really believed that their user base was going to walk out on them, they'd do something in a hurry. So many companies ignore obvious signs of customer dissatisfaction for so long, however, that by the time they finally wake up, it is WAY too late! Anyone heard of a Linux based PCB CAD program? There have been a couple of starts, SourceForge has one that is a pretty decent schematic editor, but no PCB function that is worth consideration. I'm keeping an eye on it. Jon * Tracking #: 567C4A6FBA77B048A29F13D5914363A4B11B6BB0 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fwd: OS bugs WAS: Problems with schematic annotate function. Linux Added.
Anyone heard of a Linux based PCB CAD program? Cadsoft has Eagle for Linux, I've installed it and looked at it, but that was about it. I haven't made anything with it yet. But I know my last company I was with has switch to it. http://www.cadsoft.de/index.htm Jason * Tracking #: 1D206871BCC94B4BA2E57C283EDA51FF4516D055 * -- ~ Jason Van Dellen Trilogy-Net Inc. #4; 1935 - 27Ave NE Calgary, AB T2E 7E4 www.trilogy-net.com Phone (403) 219-8868 Fax (403) 219-8860 Cell (403) 815-1626 ~ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fwd: OS bugs WAS: Problems with schematic annotate function. Linux Added.
i have no love lost for Uncle Bill, but i wouldn't bet against him either i would wager that 2-3 years from now MS is as dominant as ever and that although Linux will show strong growth it will still be for gearheads and backroom operations mostly if Linux becomes a genuine threat he will just give away something that can't be refused, they've done it before Dennis Saputelli Jason Van Dellen wrote: Anyone heard of a Linux based PCB CAD program? Cadsoft has Eagle for Linux, I've installed it and looked at it, but that was about it. I haven't made anything with it yet. But I know my last company I was with has switch to it. http://www.cadsoft.de/index.htm Jason * Tracking #: 27284A75B7E8E24093E2C29DEADBEA2EE0163CC5 * -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fwd: OS bugs WAS: Problems with schematic annotate function. Linux Added.
So, you're saying Protel 99SE works well under Win4Lin? Yes, but you still need the cab files and a Lisence. After you install Win4Lin it asks for the cab files from a CD or Location. Then when you install windows under win4lin for the user you want it for - It will install from the cab files you supplied and performs the install for you. You can not change the settings or what applications you want installed. It just zips right through without stopping except when you have to punch in the Install Code for Windows. I tried VMware a while ago and found it very bulky and slow, is that still the case? Jason Jon * Tracking #: 519020D84E31744E9994D9092416F61ABC4095DB * -- ~ Jason Van Dellen Trilogy-Net Inc. #4; 1935 - 27Ave NE Calgary, AB T2E 7E4 www.trilogy-net.com Phone (403) 219-8868 Fax (403) 219-8860 Cell (403) 815-1626 ~ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fwd: OS bugs WAS: Problems with schematic annotate function. Linux Added.
I've been trying to follow this thread and I just have a few things to say. I've been running Linux on my desktops at work and at home for three years now. Linux has come a long way. I started with Red Hat 5.1 and it was fairly hard to get everything working smoothly, but once it was up, it was very solid. Now you can install Mandrake 8.2 in about 5 minutes have it auto detect your Windows install on another drive or partition, set up the master boot record (so you can choose what you want to run at boot time, Graphicly), setup up all your hardware and connect to the internet. There is nothing in Windows that I can't do in Linux. I see Microsoft as a bad habit (eg. smoking), in order to get away from it you need to quit cold Turkey and force yourself off it. If I need to create/open/save Office97/2000/XP documents I can use OpenOffice.org. If I need to run Windows Apps(eg Protel), I run Win4Lin. http://www.netraverse.com/ There is talk about Linux sales, well you can't determine the amount of users you have based on sales. Linux is OpenSource, so users can download and burn it for free. There are millions of Linux users and developers. A website called The Linux Counter was created to track Linux users. http://counter.li.org/ This doesn't show all the users but it does show an incredible growth. WalMart.com Is now selling computers with Lindows installed, and soon will have Mandrake. So you can see there is great move towards Linux. With the new Licensing policies from Microsoft, I see more and more companies and schools switching to Linux. They can't afford not to. I agree with Ivan, for someone that is new to Linux they should check out Mandrake Linux http://www.mandrakelinux.com/ As you can see I'm Linux advocate and a Protel User. Like someone said If we don't let Protel know, they will never know.. Ok I'm done now. :) Jason On Friday 05 July 2002 13:14, Tony Karavidas wrote: Ditto.. (See replies below.) -Original Message- From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 9:40 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] OS bugs WAS: Problems with schematic annotate function. See replies below. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: www.bagotronix.com - Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 05, 2002 12:16 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] OS bugs WAS: Problems with schematic annotate function. Yeah but the funny thing about that is MS is SO BIG, linux doesn't matter either. Why would MS take a 50% hit in profits to suppress 5% of lost sales to Linux? (I'm making up those numbers but I bet they are not too far off) So they loose a few customers... They wouldn't for 5%. But that 5% won't stay 5%, it will get bigger. You'll see. Sure it might get bigger, but even if it doubles it's still small. Reminds me of a cancer report on the news saying your chances of getting cancer 'xyz' if you live in 'Smalltown, USA' are twice as great. They neglect to say that your chances are 1 in 2,000,000,000 as opposed to 1 in 4,000,000,000. Sure it's twice as likely, but it's so much more likely you won't get it anyway. Linux certainly does matter to MS in the server area. Linux/Unix and Apache web server have almost as much market share (maybe more now) than MS IIS. Same thing with Altium. If YOU decide not to upgrade because Altium's s/w doesn't run Linux, so what? If we ALL decide not to upgrade, then maybe they will think seriously about Linux, but I doubt it. If we ALL decide not to, there is no maybe about it. Altium would have to change or go out of business. Of course, we won't all decide not to... I still don't know for sure. Selling upgrades to existing customer's isn't a way to grow a company. I think if we all told them to 'piss off' they'd still have a growing user base from new sales that have no knowledge of this group. They make way more money from an $8000 new sale as opposed to a $2000 upgrade. In the short term (which is where companies seem to focus) they could chance to loose 4 of us for each new customer. Of course they wouldn't have the repeated ATS money, which would hurt them in the long run. I'm sure most of this wouldn't happen anyway. I'm just babbling. The reason I don't switch to Linux (I'd like to start messing around with it soon) is because the apps I want to use don't support it. It's a catch 22. True. At this time, we use Linux only on the LAN server. If you want to start playing with Linux, get Mandrake Linux and set up a dual-boot system. Most Linux distros have a utility that can non-destructively shrink a Windows partition to make room for Linux partitions on the same drive as Windows partitions. Or, buy a 40GB drive for $90 and install Linux on it. Make
Re: [PEDA] Fwd: OS bugs WAS: Problems with schematic annotate function. Linux Added.
I agree re the move to look at Linux. Those that entertain themselves with a daily dose of the http://www.theregister.co.uk will be no doubt starting to think more along these lines. My impression of the way it is going ( for what it may or may not be worth ;-) is that Microsoft is very visibly making a direct and somewhat blind grasp at domination. Along the way it is arrogantly pushing everyone into a corner and demanding a lot of money for what, appears to be proven on a daily basis ( by the security reports), to be a rather suspect product. I think that the only thing that will come of this is that people will get their back up, as they indeed are, from Individuals and Corporations to the European Parliament. The end result is that Linux is getting one heck of a free ride. To date a number of 'alternative' products are some what 'thin', it is to be hoped that they can catch up as for all the MS bashing that takes place I still like Excel, although I could happily lose the Word2000 virus. As a Company we are now actively looking at ways of removing MS from our business equation. The harder that bill pushes, the harder that we will look elsewhere. Currently things are tolerable, however the emerging trend in their behaviour which feels like little more than common blackmail has us thinking that in the future we would be better placed by avoiding them where possible. Interesting one of our large Clients is spending money on exactly this eventuality. The wildcard is that the threat of loss of market share may push them back in their box and bring on a friendlier face ( I won't hold my breath ) Cheers Don * Tracking #: 133F7F6F53AC854893009551E19C04CA1FDD98E2 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Fwd: OS bugs WAS: Problems with schematic annotate function. Linux Added.
Don, for the same reasons I see Protel (ie Altium) starting to lose thier user base. With the ATS useless and increase in prices people will start looking elsewhere. How could they explain charging us for the ATS and then they claim to stop support for the P99SE. What do they want us to pay them for? What bugs have they fixed so far, does anyone know? Have they fixed schematic annotation? I wonder if Mr. Protel (excuse' moa, Altium) knows what's happening in the field and how much would their management care anyway. There were number of other people in this forum with the views similar to mine. If they don't change something it looks to me they are going M$ way, down. Slowly, but surely. Anyone heard of a Linux based PCB CAD program? Igor -Original Message- From: Don Ingram [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, 9 July 2002 10:03 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] Fwd: OS bugs WAS: Problems with schematic annotate function. Linux Added. I agree re the move to look at Linux. Those that entertain themselves with a daily dose of the http://www.theregister.co.uk will be no doubt starting to think more along these lines. My impression of the way it is going ( for what it may or may not be worth ;-) is that Microsoft is very visibly making a direct and somewhat blind grasp at domination. Along the way it is arrogantly pushing everyone into a corner and demanding a lot of money for what, appears to be proven on a daily basis ( by the security reports), to be a rather suspect product. I think that the only thing that will come of this is that people will get their back up, as they indeed are, from Individuals and Corporations to the European Parliament. The end result is that Linux is getting one heck of a free ride. To date a number of 'alternative' products are some what 'thin', it is to be hoped that they can catch up as for all the MS bashing that takes place I still like Excel, although I could happily lose the Word2000 virus. As a Company we are now actively looking at ways of removing MS from our business equation. The harder that bill pushes, the harder that we will look elsewhere. Currently things are tolerable, however the emerging trend in their behaviour which feels like little more than common blackmail has us thinking that in the future we would be better placed by avoiding them where possible. Interesting one of our large Clients is spending money on exactly this eventuality. The wildcard is that the threat of loss of market share may push them back in their box and bring on a friendlier face ( I won't hold my breath ) Cheers Don * Tracking #: 133F7F6F53AC854893009551E19C04CA1FDD98E2 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
