Re: [PEDA] Mentor Board Station Netlister
> -Original Message- > From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, September 15, 2003 11:58 PM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Mentor Board Station Netlister > > > At 12:48 AM 9/14/2003, John A. Ross wrote: > >Like most of the netlisters in 99SE and DXP they are well > out of sync > >with the latest versions of other vendors tools :-( > > This is, of course, pretty normal for inter-tool data > formats. If tool A > goes to a new revision or level and introduces a new file > format, and tool > B at the same time or not long after introduces the ability > to reproduce > tool A's data formats, these are not likely to match the > latest version. > However, the good news is that almost always a CAD vendor > provides the > ability to import and use older versions of their files. > > Sometimes the ability to provide an older format is > sufficient enough that > there is little pressure to provide the latest versions Point taken, But what about the tools that make database (and netlist format) changes between versions? But I missed perhaps a valuable comment. Some of the netlisters do not actually produce a suitable format for the netlist target tools at all (direct readable format anyway), which includes DXP/nVisage. Considering nVisage is pitched as a capture tool that's pretty poor. They provide 'convenient', for Protel at least, split file outputs such as a .net and a .prt file, which need a fair amount of post processing to use at all (merge files, add headers and so on). However, I know already that in DXP these issues are being taken seriously, at least on a 'by popular demand' type basis. So perhaps there is hope for proper support, for at least the mainstream vendors tools as well, in the near future. Best Regards John A. Ross RSD Communications Ltd 8 BorrowMeadow Road Springkerse Industrial Estate Stirling, Scotland FK7 7UW Tel +44 [0]1786 450572 Ext 225 (Office) Tel +44 [0]1786 450572 Ext 248 (Lab) Fax +44 [0]1786 474653 GSM +44 [0]7831 373727 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW http://www.rsd.tv == * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Mentor Board Station Netlister
At 12:48 AM 9/14/2003, John A. Ross wrote: Like most of the netlisters in 99SE and DXP they are well out of sync with the latest versions of other vendors tools :-( This is, of course, pretty normal for inter-tool data formats. If tool A goes to a new revision or level and introduces a new file format, and tool B at the same time or not long after introduces the ability to reproduce tool A's data formats, these are not likely to match the latest version. However, the good news is that almost always a CAD vendor provides the ability to import and use older versions of their files. Sometimes the ability to provide an older format is sufficient enough that there is little pressure to provide the latest versions * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Mentor Board Station Netlister
Jami You could be right. On MG Support Net I looked up the last releases of SP & patches etc and saw BS referenced to EN2002 but have also found it under WG2002 releases. Board Station (BS) Patch Notification for EN2002 PCB Browser Spac 2 2003/04/09 Board Station (BS) Patch Notification for EN2002 Board Station to ICX Interface Spac 1 2002/12/23 Expedition PCB Patch Notification for WG2002 Expedition PCB Spac 3a 2003/08/22 mg33755 Expedition PCB Patch Notification for WG2002 PCB Browser Spac 3 2003/08/04 mg33756 Expedition PCB Patch Notification for WG2002 PCB Planner SPac 3 2003/08/04 So BS I assumed was EN2002 and Expedition was WG2002. But I also just found a Bi-Dir Lib & PCB interface for Expedition/PowerPCB there as well and I know I can get my netlist into PPCB so perhaps I have some more possibilities there. I will email Mentor support now, we will see how responsive they are, (they might call me as I know their VAR at least monitors this list :-) ). Hopefully I can find out at least if it uses a netlist and what format it should be. My $$$ I pay MG support for is actually for Pads products Thanks John > -Original Message- > From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 6:06 AM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Cc: JaMi Smith > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Mentor Board Station Netlister > > > John, > > Forgive me, but I am lost as to the meaning of "EN2002". > > Is it somehow related to their (Mentor Graphics) current > Expedition Series? > > If so, it may be that you are better off looking for a > "Cadnetix" netlist generator, or even a "VeriBest" netlist > generator, since the current Expedition has decended from > Cadnetix thru VeriBest, and is actually unrelated to the > former Board Station. > > JaMi > > - Original Message - > From: "John A. Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 9:48 PM > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Mentor Board Station Netlister > > > > Thanks Jami > > > > The end application is EN2002 version but 99SE seems only to have a > > MGBS V6 netlister. > > > > Like most of the netlisters in 99SE and DXP they are well > out of sync > > with the latest versions of other vendors tools :-( > > > > There is currently no PCB file, only the SCH project from another > > design which will be reused as it is a proven block. > > > > I do not mind writing a utility to create any macros or > otherwise to > > merge the 99SE outputs to some kind of readable format if it is not > > too involved. (and from what I read below there might not be a > > separate netlist file anyway). > > > > My Spanish colleagues will be back on Monday so I will ask if an > > intermediate file exists and get a copy of one. > > > > An alternative route I have not tried yet is CAM350, but I cannot > > access that until Tuesday. I believe I can create a protel PCB with > > just a netlist imported (delete parts after load), export as PCAD > > ASCII, save in CAM350 and then export as Mentor format > file. Hopefully > > my friend has licensed these options! > > > > Long way for a short path, but I did not expect it to be easy. > > > > Best Regards > > > > John A. Ross > > > > ~ ~ ~ > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Mentor Board Station Netlister
John, Forgive me, but I am lost as to the meaning of "EN2002". Is it somehow related to their (Mentor Graphics) current Expedition Series? If so, it may be that you are better off looking for a "Cadnetix" netlist generator, or even a "VeriBest" netlist generator, since the current Expedition has decended from Cadnetix thru VeriBest, and is actually unrelated to the former Board Station. JaMi - Original Message - From: "John A. Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'Protel EDA Forum'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 9:48 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] Mentor Board Station Netlister > Thanks Jami > > The end application is EN2002 version but 99SE seems only to have a MGBS > V6 netlister. > > Like most of the netlisters in 99SE and DXP they are well out of sync > with the latest versions of other vendors tools :-( > > There is currently no PCB file, only the SCH project from another design > which will be reused as it is a proven block. > > I do not mind writing a utility to create any macros or otherwise to > merge the 99SE outputs to some kind of readable format if it is not too > involved. (and from what I read below there might not be a separate > netlist file anyway). > > My Spanish colleagues will be back on Monday so I will ask if an > intermediate file exists and get a copy of one. > > An alternative route I have not tried yet is CAM350, but I cannot access > that until Tuesday. I believe I can create a protel PCB with just a > netlist imported (delete parts after load), export as PCAD ASCII, save > in CAM350 and then export as Mentor format file. Hopefully my friend has > licensed these options! > > Long way for a short path, but I did not expect it to be easy. > > Best Regards > > John A. Ross > ~ ~ ~ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Mentor Board Station Netlister
Thanks Jami The end application is EN2002 version but 99SE seems only to have a MGBS V6 netlister. Like most of the netlisters in 99SE and DXP they are well out of sync with the latest versions of other vendors tools :-( There is currently no PCB file, only the SCH project from another design which will be reused as it is a proven block. I do not mind writing a utility to create any macros or otherwise to merge the 99SE outputs to some kind of readable format if it is not too involved. (and from what I read below there might not be a separate netlist file anyway). My Spanish colleagues will be back on Monday so I will ask if an intermediate file exists and get a copy of one. An alternative route I have not tried yet is CAM350, but I cannot access that until Tuesday. I believe I can create a protel PCB with just a netlist imported (delete parts after load), export as PCAD ASCII, save in CAM350 and then export as Mentor format file. Hopefully my friend has licensed these options! Long way for a short path, but I did not expect it to be easy. Best Regards John A. Ross RSD Communications Ltd 8 BorrowMeadow Road Springkerse Industrial Estate Stirling, Scotland FK7 7UW Tel +44 [0]1786 450572 Ext 225 (Office) Tel +44 [0]1786 450572 Ext 248 (Lab) Fax +44 [0]1786 474653 GSM +44 [0]7831 373727 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW http://www.rsd.tv == > -Original Message- > From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2003 4:30 AM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Cc: JaMi Smith > Subject: Re: [PEDA] Mentor Board Station Netlister > > > John, > > I have no direct experience with the "netlister" that you speak of. > > I have not used Mentor Graphics Board Station Version 6 (or > are you referring to something else being "V6") since the > last time I was "on lab" at JPL in 1989, and while I did > write a couple of interesting little Utilities that did a > couple of different things to the "wires" file (or possibly > it was called the "routes" file instead (?)), such as > "rotate" the "routes" (routed traces) for the board (so the > entire board could be rotated 90, 180, or 270 degrees), since > in Board Station 6, (or at least 6.2) only an unrouted board > could be rotated (it would not allow you to rotate the board > along with placed traces). My solution to this limitation was > to copy the "wires" file, and then delete it, and then rotate > the unrouted board by the amount that you wanted to rotate > it, and then rotate the "traces" in the "wires" file using my > little Utility, and then copy back the rotated traces in the > rotated "wires" file into the design directory, and walla! - > instant rotated board with traces intact. Another thing I > wrote a Utility to do, was to move selected layers in an > already routed board down in the stackup a specified number > of layers, so that a certain number of additional layers > could be added in the center of the board. This too was > accomplished by manipulating the "wires" file. > > If I remember correctly, Board Station 6 ran on an Apollo > platform (at least the ones that we used at JPL did), and I > had to copy the "wires" file over to a PC via the network, > and then copy the "wires" file off onto a diskette, and then > take it home and work my magic on it on my own PC at home, > and then copy it back to a diskette and then go back across > the network. > > Unfortunately, I never did any playing around with the netlist. > > And I can't remember if there ever actually was an > intermediate (seperate) netlist file involved in the > processing of a schematic. > > If there is an intermediate (separate) netlist file, it will > show you the required format, and you might be able to do a > quickie examination for compatability to the output from the > Protel "formatter(?)" to the format required for Board Station 6. > > However, if such an intermediate (separate) file is not used, > one thing that I do remember about Board Station 6, was that > every single operation or keyboard entry, generated a > corresponding entry in a "script file" that was about 37 and > a half miles long, that accounted for each and every minute > operation that would ever be performed, and the one thing > that was unique about this "script file", was that if you > ever lost or corrupted your design files for any reason, you > could completely recreate them from scratch simply by > "executing" the "script file" (or relevant portion thereof) > from scratch. >
Re: [PEDA] Mentor Board Station Netlister
John, I have no direct experience with the "netlister" that you speak of. I have not used Mentor Graphics Board Station Version 6 (or are you referring to something else being "V6") since the last time I was "on lab" at JPL in 1989, and while I did write a couple of interesting little Utilities that did a couple of different things to the "wires" file (or possibly it was called the "routes" file instead (?)), such as "rotate" the "routes" (routed traces) for the board (so the entire board could be rotated 90, 180, or 270 degrees), since in Board Station 6, (or at least 6.2) only an unrouted board could be rotated (it would not allow you to rotate the board along with placed traces). My solution to this limitation was to copy the "wires" file, and then delete it, and then rotate the unrouted board by the amount that you wanted to rotate it, and then rotate the "traces" in the "wires" file using my little Utility, and then copy back the rotated traces in the rotated "wires" file into the design directory, and walla! - instant rotated board with traces intact. Another thing I wrote a Utility to do, was to move selected layers in an already routed board down in the stackup a specified number of layers, so that a certain number of additional layers could be added in the center of the board. This too was accomplished by manipulating the "wires" file. If I remember correctly, Board Station 6 ran on an Apollo platform (at least the ones that we used at JPL did), and I had to copy the "wires" file over to a PC via the network, and then copy the "wires" file off onto a diskette, and then take it home and work my magic on it on my own PC at home, and then copy it back to a diskette and then go back across the network. Unfortunately, I never did any playing around with the netlist. And I can't remember if there ever actually was an intermediate (seperate) netlist file involved in the processing of a schematic. If there is an intermediate (separate) netlist file, it will show you the required format, and you might be able to do a quickie examination for compatability to the output from the Protel "formatter(?)" to the format required for Board Station 6. However, if such an intermediate (separate) file is not used, one thing that I do remember about Board Station 6, was that every single operation or keyboard entry, generated a corresponding entry in a "script file" that was about 37 and a half miles long, that accounted for each and every minute operation that would ever be performed, and the one thing that was unique about this "script file", was that if you ever lost or corrupted your design files for any reason, you could completely recreate them from scratch simply by "executing" the "script file" (or relevant portion thereof) from scratch. Ok, so what this means practically, is that minimally you should be able to determine the format of a netlist by simply looking at either a netlist file, or if that is not directly available, by looking at the "script file" that results by compiling a schematic (or associating it, or whatever it was that we did to it (it has only been a short eon and a half ago since I did any of this, and the cells in that corner of the brain are a little oxidized)), and seeing how that compares with what is generated by the Protel "formatter(?)". Anyway, I believe that in the worst case, you would only have to make a netlist look like a script file to be able to "execute it" and enter it into Board Station 6. You might want to run this by your guy with Board Station 6 and see what he has to say about all of this. But now if you wanted to take your gerbers and generate a "wires"file of traces . . . Just kidding . . . JaMi - Original Message - From: "John A. Ross [Design]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Protel EDA Forum" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 6:44 AM Subject: [PEDA] Mentor Board Station Netlister Due to time constraints I need to issue one of our partner companies with a netlist rather than a completed board. They use MG Board station as their layout tool. Has anyone used the Board station V6 netlister in 99SE successfully? Or can offer any advice on re-formatting or combining the files generated by 99SE? I have already searched on MG Support Net for information on the netlist format for EN2002 but cannot find it (unless it is hidden in some other manual) Thanks Best Regards John A. Ross RSD Communications Ltd 8 BorrowMeadow Road Springkerse Industrial Estate Stirling, Scotland FK7 7UW Tel +44 [0]1786 450572 Ext 225 (Office) Tel +44 [0]1786 450572 Ext 248 (Lab) Fax +44 [0]1786 474653 GSM +44 [0]7831 373727 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] WWW http://www.rsd.tv == * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
