Re: [PEDA] Questions about upgrading to 99SE
At 10:55 AM 3/23/01 -0500, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: >Yes, the upgrade was PRICEY$$$. But I have been using PCB 2.8 and SCH 3.2 >since 1996, so it was time to upgrade. And I saved a lot of money by not >upgrading each incremental release since then. Some money, perhaps, but not a lot of money, and more likely no money was saved at all. Protel stands out among CAD companies in not punishing users for not keeping current with maintenance. Instead, Protel has no maintenance charge, but does charge for upgrades which amounts to something similar. But it is not the same. Protel issues service packs without charge, whereas with other companies, no maintenance, no bug fixes. The upgrade from 2.8 to 99SE is currently $2995. Let's suppose that Mr. Bagget had kept current. He would have paid to go from 2.8 to version 3, from version 3 to 98, and from 98 to 99-99SE. The Protel 99 upgrade was originally announced at $995. I don't know what the others were, but I would guess it was perhaps $995 for each. So the current upgrade is the same price except for, of course, it is paid now rather than earlier; the difference is thus only the value of money. I'm not going to go through the whole calculation, but for maybe $20 per month, Mr. Bagget could have had all the improvements for that whole period, and he could still have used 2.8 whenever he really preferred it. > The real reason I decided to >upgrade was to stop having to create a part footprint every time I wanted to >use a SMT chip. The PCB libs in 2.8 didn't have much in the way of JEDEC >SMT footprints. So, for example, he could have obtained parts in more recent libraries, placed them on a PCB, and then taken the PCB back to 2.8, which later versions will write. The upshot of this is that if you really want to save money, buy each upgrade, if not when it comes out, then when Protel announces that the price is going to go up if you don't buy now. But it would not be a bad idea at all to simply buy upgrades at first announcement. I waited perhaps 6 months to get Protel 99, and I saved $300 by doing that, because I bought it on a special offer. $50 per month. Not enough, really. I know users who went immediately to Protel 99 and were immediately pleased. Sure, there were problems. But there were also improvements that were worthwhile to them. I upgraded to 99SE at the $695 offer because I knew that 99 was going to get better and I would be eventually buying it anyway. The signal integrity tools hooked me, as I recall. But I did not actually start using 99 for quite a few months; in fact, I think my first real operations in 99 were prerelease 99SE. Another reason to immediately upgrade on new release is that it helps Protel. When Protel receives more upgrade fees, and it receives them sooner, it has more resources to provide better upgrades. Other CAD programs charge perhaps 15% per year for maintenance. (Sometimes more, but the industry seems to be settling on 15%). That would be $900 per year for Protel 99SE. I don't know what the coming upgrade will cost, but I would guess $995. That boils down to something like $40 per month. I'd suggest budgeting that amount. It's really very, very small compared to the value of the upgrades. >Also, another reason I upgraded all around (W2K, 99SE) is that I can't >afford to let my skills and knowledge base become obsolete. Right. I did fine with Tango. At least that is what I thought. I could do complex split planes, etc. The only thing I could not do was blind vias, and I hadn't needed them. Actually, however, my business was slowly dying and I was being held back in ways that were not visible to me at the time. I tolerated slow DRCs, glacial performance with large boards, etc. I had no idea what it would be like to manually route gridless without having to worry about clearance violations, I didn't even know that such a thing was possible. I know that quite a few users bought version 3 and were unhappy with it, and because version 3 was the introduction of the Client-Server architecture, the basis for everything after that, the impression lingered that the upgrades were more trouble than they were worth. I'm not going to argue about version 3; I never used it, and I know some other users who liked version 3 right from the start; I suspect that differences in user system configurations made it seem terribly buggy to some and just fine for others. But I know that somewhere around SP2 for Protel 98, most 2.8 users started surrendering to the future. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax P.O. Box 690 El Verano, CA 95433 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [PEDA] Questions about upgrading to 99SE
On 10:55 AM 3/23/01 -0500, Bagotronix Tech Support said: > > Remember to install SP6 as soon as you load the program. > >Thanks for that tip. I probably would have overlooked it. Yeah...Like I did...(pissed me off too, I'm usually pretty thorough in sys-config efforts, to the point of neurosis) regards, aj 2.2 S E C O N D D R O P T O W E R Andrew J JenkinsElectrical Engineer National Center for Microgravity Research NASA-Glenn Research Center MS 45-1 21000 Brookpark Rd, Cleveland OH 44135 (216) 433-5001 fax:433-3793 [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Questions about upgrading to 99SE
> Congratulations on the new computer! Just for curiosity's sake, how much > RAM did you get installed? (By now, you know what I think on the subj...) I haven't decided between 512MB or 1GB yet, but I probably will go with 1GB, since I won't be able to upgrade it 2 years from now (PC133 SDRAM will be obsolete by then). > I'm glad you're able to afford the upgrades. I think you'll be pleasantly > surprised overall, once you're over the (modest) learning curve from v3 > (assuming 3 was like 2.8) to the new way of doing things that P9x presents > to the user. Yes, the upgrade was PRICEY$$$. But I have been using PCB 2.8 and SCH 3.2 since 1996, so it was time to upgrade. And I saved a lot of money by not upgrading each incremental release since then. The real reason I decided to upgrade was to stop having to create a part footprint every time I wanted to use a SMT chip. The PCB libs in 2.8 didn't have much in the way of JEDEC SMT footprints. Also, another reason I upgraded all around (W2K, 99SE) is that I can't afford to let my skills and knowledge base become obsolete. After all, that's one thing I like about the EE profession: there's always something new coming around. I never did understand the mentality that some engineers have of wanting to do the same thing in the same way for their entire career. My philosophy is to learn new stuff, keep the best of the old stuff, and ditch the rest. A lot of the custom designs I do involve recreating old-style PC architectures for embedded applications using new hardware! Sounds insane, but people really do not want to rewrite their hard-won application software. So I still have every PC I've ever bought, keeping the old ones for legacy reference platforms. And I still have every DOS and Windows version since 3.0, and now Linux, and soon W2K. > Remember to install SP6 as soon as you load the program. That way you'll > avoid the pitfalls that it remedies (and remember, Protel's service packs > are inclusive, ie, they include all previous service packs for a given > product, so there's no need to install sp1,sp2, etc...) Thanks for that tip. I probably would have overlooked it. Best regards, Ivan Baggett Bagotronix Inc. website: http://www.bagotronix.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Questions about upgrading to 99SE
At 12:13 PM 3/22/01 -0500, Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: >My question is: do I have to install the old Protel software on my new PC >before I install the 99SE upgrade? No. The 99SE distribution CD is a complete stand-alone product. Then download and install SP6, and you will be running the latest and greatest. Until the next SP; we were given some hints of goodies to come. (Actually, we were given more than hints, but I was asked not to spoil the surprise, so let's just say that I am looking forward to SP7 very much). [EMAIL PROTECTED] Abdulrahman Lomax P.O. Box 690 El Verano, CA 95433 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Questions about upgrading to 99SE
Re: [PEDA] Questions about upgrading to 99SE
Ivan, Can you list what you have in the new system, which mother board interests me. Also which OS did you go for. Darren * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Questions about upgrading to 99SE
No you do not. They are as far as I know stand alone products. B__But I would sure go to the web and get sp6. Fixes a lot of bugs and some things sp2 does not do right. If sp6 gives you fits drop back to sp5. Means you will have to go and get that also. Have fun. I mean work hard. At 12:13 PM 3/22/2001 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, all: > >I have purchased the upgrade to Protel 99SE. It has been sitting in the box >for about 3 months now, waiting for my new computer hardware to arrive. The >old computer (circa 1996 Dell) can't run 99SE. Not enough RAM (64MB, can't >add more). > >I decided to go with a dual P-III PC133 (screw Rambus and their lawyers) >system, instead of the Athlon DDR I was considering. The reasons: >1) I have been told that dual CPU systems are "smoother" than single CPU >systems. >2) I have heard of compatibility problems between DDR memory modules and >systems. Until they get the kinks worked out of DDR, I don't want to >experiment. After all, this is to be a WORK machine, not a play machine. > >My question is: do I have to install the old Protel software on my new PC >before I install the 99SE upgrade? I hope not; I would rather not "pollute" >the new machine with old DLLs, etc. from the old software. > >Hopefully, by this time next week, I will be joining the rest of you in the >W2K/99SE realm. > >Best regards, >Ivan Baggett >Bagotronix Inc. >website: http://www.bagotronix.com > Rusty Garfield Development Technician IV Sugar Land Product Center (281) 285-7611 (voice) (281) 285-7619 (fax) [EMAIL PROTECTED] (e-mail) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Questions about upgrading to 99SE
Hi Ivan, I am no expert but I really can't see any reason to have an older version installed. On that thought they would have ship an older version with every new sale. P99SE must install on it's own, it's only logical. I think most of the list members must be at the PCB West conference, it has been awfully quiet the last few days. My personal opinion would be to still install P98 or whatever you were using previous. I would like having it there just to confirm correct databases should any question show up upon import into P99SE. Sincerely, Brad Velander Lead PCB Design Norsat International Inc. #100 - 4401 Still Creek Dr., Burnaby, B.C., Canada. V5C6G9. voice: (604) 292-9089 (direct line) fax:(604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] www: www.norsat.com > -Original Message- > From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:14 AM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: [PEDA] Questions about upgrading to 99SE > > > Hello, all: > > I have purchased the upgrade to Protel 99SE. It has been > sitting in the box > for about 3 months now, waiting for my new computer hardware > to arrive. The > old computer (circa 1996 Dell) can't run 99SE. Not enough > RAM (64MB, can't > add more). > > I decided to go with a dual P-III PC133 (screw Rambus and > their lawyers) > system, instead of the Athlon DDR I was considering. The reasons: > 1) I have been told that dual CPU systems are "smoother" > than single CPU > systems. > 2) I have heard of compatibility problems between DDR memory > modules and > systems. Until they get the kinks worked out of DDR, I don't want to > experiment. After all, this is to be a WORK machine, not a > play machine. > > My question is: do I have to install the old Protel software > on my new PC > before I install the 99SE upgrade? I hope not; I would > rather not "pollute" > the new machine with old DLLs, etc. from the old software. > > Hopefully, by this time next week, I will be joining the rest > of you in the > W2K/99SE realm. > > Best regards, > Ivan Baggett > Bagotronix Inc. > website: http://www.bagotronix.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Questions about upgrading to 99SE
I *think* the word "upgrade" in Protel-speak only refers to pricing. I have never seen a Protel app check for an older version (like Microsoft does) You should be fine installing it on a virgin drive. Tony > -Original Message- > From: Bagotronix Tech Support [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 9:14 AM > To: Protel EDA Forum > Subject: [PEDA] Questions about upgrading to 99SE > > > Hello, all: > > I have purchased the upgrade to Protel 99SE. It has been sitting > in the box > for about 3 months now, waiting for my new computer hardware to > arrive. The > old computer (circa 1996 Dell) can't run 99SE. Not enough RAM > (64MB, can't > add more). > > I decided to go with a dual P-III PC133 (screw Rambus and their lawyers) > system, instead of the Athlon DDR I was considering. The reasons: > 1) I have been told that dual CPU systems are "smoother" than single CPU > systems. > 2) I have heard of compatibility problems between DDR memory modules and > systems. Until they get the kinks worked out of DDR, I don't want to > experiment. After all, this is to be a WORK machine, not a play machine. > > My question is: do I have to install the old Protel software on my new PC > before I install the 99SE upgrade? I hope not; I would rather > not "pollute" > the new machine with old DLLs, etc. from the old software. > > Hopefully, by this time next week, I will be joining the rest of > you in the > W2K/99SE realm. > > Best regards, > Ivan Baggett > Bagotronix Inc. > website: http://www.bagotronix.com > > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Questions about upgrading to 99SE
On 12:13 PM 22/03/2001 -0500, Bagotronix Tech Support said: >My question is: do I have to install the old Protel software on my new PC >before I install the 99SE upgrade? No. Ian * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Questions about upgrading to 99SE
Hi Ivan, No, you do not need to install the old software to install Protel99SE. You will use only your existing license authorization number(s), unless you have been provided with a new license for the upgrade software. Regards, Harry Selfridge Encore Engineering Services and Products At 12:13 PM 3/22/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, all: >--snip >My question is: do I have to install the old Protel software on my new PC >before I install the 99SE upgrade? I hope not; I would rather not "pollute" >the new machine with old DLLs, etc. from the old software. > >Hopefully, by this time next week, I will be joining the rest of you in the >W2K/99SE realm. > >Best regards, >Ivan Baggett >Bagotronix Inc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Questions about upgrading to 99SE
On 12:13 PM 3/22/01 -0500, Bagotronix Tech Support said: >Hello, all: > >I have purchased the upgrade to Protel 99SE. It has been sitting in the box >for about 3 months now, waiting for my new computer hardware to arrive. Congratulations on the new computer! Just for curiosity's sake, how much RAM did you get installed? (By now, you know what I think on the subj...) >My question is: do I have to install the old Protel software on my new PC >before I install the 99SE upgrade? I hope not; I would rather not "pollute" >the new machine with old DLLs, etc. from the old software. I believe that P99SE is a stand-alone installation, unlike incremental "upgrade" versions which look for preceding versions as an authorization step. The keycodes serve that purpose... I'm glad you're able to afford the upgrades. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised overall, once you're over the (modest) learning curve from v3 (assuming 3 was like 2.8) to the new way of doing things that P9x presents to the user. Remember to install SP6 as soon as you load the program. That way you'll avoid the pitfalls that it remedies (and remember, Protel's service packs are inclusive, ie, they include all previous service packs for a given product, so there's no need to install sp1,sp2, etc...) regards, 2.2 S E C O N D D R O P T O W E R Andrew J JenkinsElectrical Engineer National Center for Microgravity Research NASA-Glenn Research Center MS 45-1 21000 Brookpark Rd, Cleveland OH 44135 (216) 433-5001 fax:433-3793 [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Questions about upgrading to 99SE
if your old software is P98 then I am pretty sure you do not need to install P98 before 99SE that having been said you may find it handy to do it anyway, if you just want to peek at a legacy design, it is faster to use 98 the programs live in different realms also I would copy the 98 libs to a new directory for use with and updating in 99 also my suggestion since you are going to 99 is to embrace the DDB single file method (as opposed to 'windows file system') reason: "in for a penny, in for a pound" it works pretty nicely and does make life easier albeit somewhat slower (loading times) Dennis Saputelli Bagotronix Tech Support wrote: > > Hello, all: > > I have purchased the upgrade to Protel 99SE. It has been sitting in the box > for about 3 months now, waiting for my new computer hardware to arrive. The > old computer (circa 1996 Dell) can't run 99SE. Not enough RAM (64MB, can't > add more). > > I decided to go with a dual P-III PC133 (screw Rambus and their lawyers) > system, instead of the Athlon DDR I was considering. The reasons: > 1) I have been told that dual CPU systems are "smoother" than single CPU > systems. > 2) I have heard of compatibility problems between DDR memory modules and > systems. Until they get the kinks worked out of DDR, I don't want to > experiment. After all, this is to be a WORK machine, not a play machine. > > My question is: do I have to install the old Protel software on my new PC > before I install the 99SE upgrade? I hope not; I would rather not "pollute" > the new machine with old DLLs, etc. from the old software. > > Hopefully, by this time next week, I will be joining the rest of you in the > W2K/99SE realm. > > Best regards, > Ivan Baggett > Bagotronix Inc. > website: http://www.bagotronix.com -- ___ www.integratedcontrolsinc.comIntegrated Controls, Inc. tel: 415-647-04802851 21st Street fax: 415-647-3003San Francisco, CA 94110 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To join or leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/subscrib.html * - or email - * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?body=leave%20proteledaforum * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
