Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Jan Miksovsky]

Thanks to everyone who participated in the call. (Special thanks to those 
calling from Tokyo!)

Minutes for the meeting are at 
https://www.w3.org/2016/04/05-webapps-minutes.html 
.

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Anne van Kesteren]

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 6:55 PM, Xiaoqian Wu  wrote:
> I’m unfamiliar with WebEx. If Chaals or someone wants to make a strong push
> to use that, please set up the call and send out instructions for joining.

FYI: we're using Hangouts. If anyone cannot join please tell us on IRC
(#webapps, W3C IRC).


-- 
https://annevankesteren.nl/

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Xiaoqian Wu]

> On 6 Apr 2016, at 12:29 AM, Jan Miksovsky  wrote:
> 
> I’m unfamiliar with WebEx. If Chaals or someone wants to make a strong push 
> to use that, please set up the call and send out instructions for joining.

We’ve scheduled a WebEx call for this Telecon, in case you will need it.

-
Web Components
Tuesday, April 5, 2016
10:00 am  |  Pacific Daylight Time (San Francisco, GMT-07:00)  |  2 hrs
 
Join WebEx meeting
Link: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m6515c79ee5dca2d7b6fd3a07a4dd160a
Meeting number: 643 198 155
Meeting password:   webplatform
 
Join by phone
+1-617-324- US Toll Number
Access code: 643 198 155
Mobile Auto Dial:+1-617-324-,,,643198155#

--

Please feel free to use Google Hangouts if that works better for most of you. 
Have fun.

-xiaoqian

> 
> Baring that, I propose the default meeting location is on Google Hangouts: 
> https://hangouts.google.com/call/rwiluf6hlbhkzf4566hq4biedye 
> . If we go 
> ahead with Hangouts and Chaals can’t join, I’ll volunteer to act as scribe, 
> at least for the beginning.
> 
> I’m on the IRC channel gave (irc://irc.w3.org/#public-webapps 
> ) if anyone wants to discuss pre-call 
> logistics.
> 
> As a reminder: the proposed agenda for the meeting is to go through the 
> “needs consensus” items posted at 
> https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22needs+consensus%22
>  
> .
>  It sounds like it would be good to resolve pending Shadow DOM issues before 
> tackling Custom Elements issues.

RE: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Domenic Denicola]

From: Jan Miksovsky [mailto:jan@component.kitchen] 

> As a reminder: the proposed agenda for the meeting is to go through the 
> “needs consensus” items posted at 
> https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues?q=is:issue+is:open+label:"needs+consensus;.
>  It sounds like it would be good to resolve pending Shadow DOM issues before 
> tackling Custom Elements issues.

I spent some time organizing these "needs consensus" issues into a 
category/priority list. Let's try to go in this order (which interleaves SD and 
CE):

## Definitely needs discussion

* [SD] https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/308: should we use `display: 
contents`
* [CE] https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/417: caching vs. late 
binding of lifecycle callbacks

## Discussion would be good; still contentious/tricky

* [SD] https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/477: 
`document.currentScript` censoring
* [SD] https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/355: use CSS containment 
features by default
* [CE] https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/186: integrating callback 
invocation with IDL and editing operations

## New feature proposals

* [CE] https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/468: provide a mechanism for 
adding default/"UA" styles to a custom element
* [SD] https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/288: `slotchange` event

## Discussion would be good, but there's likely a default consensus based on 
GitHub discussions so far

* [SD] https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/59: parse `` like 
``
* [Both] https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/449: restrict to secure 
contexts
* [CE] https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/474: define order for 
attributeChangedCallback invocations

## Bikeshedding; probably does not need telecom time

* [SD] https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/451: rename getAssignedNodes 
and assignedSlot
* [CE] https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues/434: rename "custom tag" and 
"type extension"

See you all in a few!

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Jan Miksovsky]

I’m unfamiliar with WebEx. If Chaals or someone wants to make a strong push to 
use that, please set up the call and send out instructions for joining.

Baring that, I propose the default meeting location is on Google Hangouts: 
https://hangouts.google.com/call/rwiluf6hlbhkzf4566hq4biedye 
. If we go ahead 
with Hangouts and Chaals can’t join, I’ll volunteer to act as scribe, at least 
for the beginning.

I’m on the IRC channel gave (irc://irc.w3.org/#public-webapps 
) if anyone wants to discuss pre-call 
logistics.

As a reminder: the proposed agenda for the meeting is to go through the “needs 
consensus” items posted at 
https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22needs+consensus%22
 
.
 It sounds like it would be good to resolve pending Shadow DOM issues before 
tackling Custom Elements issues.

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Michael[tm] Smith]

Anne van Kesteren , 2016-04-05 07:10 +0200:
> Archived-At: 
> 
> 
> On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 12:19 AM, Jan Miksovsky  wrote:
> > I have no idea how to settle this question. If everyone else is happy using 
> > WebEx, and someone else can set up the video call, I certainly don’t have a 
> > problem with that. (My only issue would be if the meeting was restricted to 
> > voice only.)
> 
> Does WebEx even support video?

It does

> In any event, per
> https://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/InstallingWebEx this would require
> Java, which is a major security risk, and it seems the fallback is
> audio-only.

FWIW, there is an Android client (including video support). That is what I
use personally, though the only thing I use it for is it get the webex
system to call me back to dial me in to the conference on audio. After I
get that audio connection I then just shut down the client.

> So it seems better to use Hangouts or some such.

Yeah, if everybody can agree to that it may work out a lot better.

But another option is to use a WebRTC service like https://appear.in/ which
work well enough these days with up to 8 video connections going at once.

  —Mike

-- 
Michael[tm] Smith https://people.w3.org/mike


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Anne van Kesteren]

On Tue, Apr 5, 2016 at 12:19 AM, Jan Miksovsky  wrote:
> I have no idea how to settle this question. If everyone else is happy using 
> WebEx, and someone else can set up the video call, I certainly don’t have a 
> problem with that. (My only issue would be if the meeting was restricted to 
> voice only.)

Does WebEx even support video? In any event, per
https://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/InstallingWebEx this would require
Java, which is a major security risk, and it seems the fallback is
audio-only. So it seems better to use Hangouts or some such.


-- 
https://annevankesteren.nl/

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Jan Miksovsky]

I never use WebEx, and had proposed Google Hangouts only because I thought it 
was ubiquitous (and free).

I have no idea how to settle this question. If everyone else is happy using 
WebEx, and someone else can set up the video call, I certainly don’t have a 
problem with that. (My only issue would be if the meeting was restricted to 
voice only.)

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Jan Miksovsky]

It looks like the best date/time for everyone is this coming Tuesday, April 5, 
10:00 am – 12:00 pm PDT.

Thanks for everyone who participated in the poll. I was not able to find a time 
when everyone could join, but it appears that we have representation from 
Apple, Google, and Mozilla, so I think we’re in good shape.

The Google Hangout for the event will be 
https://hangouts.google.com/call/rwiluf6hlbhkzf4566hq4biedye.

Chaals: Thanks for the reminder about minutes. I can help out with some of the 
scribe duties; if you’re able to make the call, you and I could trade off that 
role. I can’t remember the IRC channel we used for past F2F meetings; please 
share. If memory serves, there are also some conventions for flagging action 
items, etc. — can you point me at some summary of those? (Alternatively: With 
Google Hangouts, if it’s better to use Hangouts’ own chat system, we could use 
that instead.)

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Chaals McCathie Nevile]

On Thu, 31 Mar 2016 13:45:16 +0200, Chaals McCathie Nevile  
 wrote:


On Wed, 30 Mar 2016 23:24:59 +0200, Jan Miksovsky  
 wrote:


It sounds like there’s general interest in making this happen, so I  
went ahead and set up a Doodle poll for this:  
http://doodle.com/poll/z7qvrafbxw4zyit9.


(Chaals: I just noticed you offered to do that as well, but since I’d  
already set it up, I thought I’d sent it out. Hope that’s okay.)


(It's better than OK, I'm glad you did it - thank you

cheers)

If everyone could indicate their availability by, say, this Friday,  
4/1, we can see what time works best for everyone.


I assumed the timezone was Pacific. Please put it into surveys.

I don't consider myself critical or even especially important to this  
discussion. But I think it is important that it gets minuted to the point  
where those who want to know what justifies a given approach can find that.


cheers

Chaals


--
Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
 cha...@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Chaals McCathie Nevile]

On Wed, 30 Mar 2016 23:24:59 +0200, Jan Miksovsky   
wrote:


It sounds like there’s general interest in making this happen, so I went  
ahead and set up a Doodle poll for this:  
http://doodle.com/poll/z7qvrafbxw4zyit9.


(Chaals: I just noticed you offered to do that as well, but since I’d  
already set it up, I thought I’d sent it out. Hope that’s okay.)


(It's better than OK, I'm glad you did it - thank you

cheers)

If everyone could indicate their availability by, say, this Friday, 4/1,  
we can see what time works best for everyone.


–Jan



--
Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
 cha...@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Anne van Kesteren]

On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 11:24 PM, Jan Miksovsky  wrote:
> If everyone could indicate their availability by, say, this Friday, 4/1, we 
> can see what time works best for everyone.

Done, I've assumed that the time was California time, meaning I'm
"available" daily 7-9PM Zurich time.


-- 
https://annevankesteren.nl/

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Jan Miksovsky]

It sounds like there’s general interest in making this happen, so I went ahead 
and set up a Doodle poll for this: http://doodle.com/poll/z7qvrafbxw4zyit9.

(Chaals: I just noticed you offered to do that as well, but since I’d already 
set it up, I thought I’d sent it out. Hope that’s okay.)

If everyone could indicate their availability by, say, this Friday, 4/1, we can 
see what time works best for everyone.

–Jan

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Anne van Kesteren]

On Wed, Mar 23, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Ryosuke Niwa  wrote:
>> On Mar 23, 2016, at 6:04 AM, Chaals McCathie Nevile  
>> wrote:
>> I'll attend from Europe. Is there a preferred day, and how long do you 
>> anticipate this being?
>
> I think the first or the second week of April would be good.  We just need to 
> go through each issue and make sure we're on the same page so I'd expect it 
> to be 1-2 hours.

I'm not sure I'm able to attend, but I've been going through all the
issues several times now and adding what I think needs doing (or
resolving it when possible). The issues that are currently blocking
specification work are marked as "needs consensus":

https://github.com/w3c/webcomponents/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22needs+consensus%22

It would be great if folks could get to those sooner than later.


-- 
https://annevankesteren.nl/

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Ryosuke Niwa]

> On Mar 23, 2016, at 6:04 AM, Chaals McCathie Nevile  
> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 04:17:07 +0100, Hayato Ito  wrote:
> 
>> Either option is okay to me. I'll attend the meeting from Tokyo.
> 
> I'll attend from Europe. Is there a preferred day, and how long do you 
> anticipate this being?

I think the first or the second week of April would be good.  We just need to 
go through each issue and make sure we're on the same page so I'd expect it to 
be 1-2 hours.

> Should we be trying to set up a day or so face to face as well? (And while 
> we're at it, do people expect to go to TPAC and want to meet there?)

I think meeting at TPAC makes sense.  I'm not certain if there's enough 
interests for F2F between April and TPAC but I'm happy to attend if someone 
were to organize one.

- R. Niwa

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Chaals McCathie Nevile]

On Tue, 22 Mar 2016 04:17:07 +0100, Hayato Ito  wrote:


Either option is okay to me. I'll attend the meeting from Tokyo.


I'll attend from Europe. Is there a preferred day, and how long do you  
anticipate this being?


Should we be trying to set up a day or so face to face as well? (And while  
we're at it, do people expect to go to TPAC and want to meet there?)


I'm happy to set up e.g. a Doodle.


On Mar 21, 2016 3:17 PM, "Ryosuke Niwa"  wrote:
>
> For people participating from Tokyo and Europe, would you prefer >  
having it in early morning or late evening?


> If so, we can schedule it at UTC 3PM, which is 8AM in bay area, >  
midnight in Tokyo, and 5AM in Europe.


Actually it's 5PM in Europe - much nicer ;)


> Another option is at UTC 7AM, which is 11PM in bay area, 3PM in Tokyo,
and 8AM in Europe.


cheers

Chaals

--
Charles McCathie Nevile - web standards - CTO Office, Yandex
 cha...@yandex-team.ru - - - Find more at http://yandex.com

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Hayato Ito]

Either option is okay to me. I'll attend the meeting from Tokyo.

On Tue, Mar 22, 2016 at 11:36 AM Brian Kardell  wrote:

>
> On Mar 21, 2016 3:17 PM, "Ryosuke Niwa"  wrote:
> >
> > For people participating from Tokyo and Europe, would you prefer having
> it in early morning or late evening?
> >
> > Because Bay Area, Tokyo, and Europe are almost uniformly distributed
> across the timezone, our time slots are limited:
> >
> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20160405=900=248=268
> >
> > Do people from Tokyo can participate in the meeting around midnight?
> >
> > If so, we can schedule it at UTC 3PM, which is 8AM in bay area, midnight
> in Tokyo, and 5AM in Europe.
> >
> > Another option is at UTC 7AM, which is 11PM in bay area, 3PM in Tokyo,
> and 8AM in Europe.
> >
> > - R. Niwa
> >
>
> I can afford to attend remotely! :)
>

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Brian Kardell]

On Mar 21, 2016 3:17 PM, "Ryosuke Niwa"  wrote:
>
> For people participating from Tokyo and Europe, would you prefer having
it in early morning or late evening?
>
> Because Bay Area, Tokyo, and Europe are almost uniformly distributed
across the timezone, our time slots are limited:
>
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20160405=900=248=268
>
> Do people from Tokyo can participate in the meeting around midnight?
>
> If so, we can schedule it at UTC 3PM, which is 8AM in bay area, midnight
in Tokyo, and 5AM in Europe.
>
> Another option is at UTC 7AM, which is 11PM in bay area, 3PM in Tokyo,
and 8AM in Europe.
>
> - R. Niwa
>

I can afford to attend remotely! :)

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Ryosuke Niwa]

For people participating from Tokyo and Europe, would you prefer having it in 
early morning or late evening?

Because Bay Area, Tokyo, and Europe are almost uniformly distributed across the 
timezone, our time slots are limited:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20160405=900=248=268
 


Do people from Tokyo can participate in the meeting around midnight?

If so, we can schedule it at UTC 3PM, which is 8AM in bay area, midnight in 
Tokyo, and 5AM in Europe.

Another option is at UTC 7AM, which is 11PM in bay area, 3PM in Tokyo, and 8AM 
in Europe.

- R. Niwa

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Takayoshi Kochi]

I will join remotely via webex.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 7:08 PM, Léonie Watson  wrote:

> For a telecon, we can create a WebEx instance if that would be useful? Let
> me know the date/time (UTC), and we'll get it sorted.
>
> For an F2F, we'll need to post notice of the date/venue at least eight
> weeks
> in advance [1]. Let me know the date(s)/venue, and we can do that too.
>
> Léonie.
> [1]
> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2016JanMar/0043.html
>
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: rn...@apple.com [mailto:rn...@apple.com]
> > Sent: 14 March 2016 23:56
> > To: t...@tink.uk; Chaals McCathie Nevile 
> > Cc: public-webapps 
> > Subject: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > We've been making a good progress on shadow DOM and custom elements
> > API but there seems to be a lot of open questions still.  I've asked a
> couple of
> > people involved in the discussion, and there seems to be an interest for
> > having another tele-conference or an in-person meeting.
> >
> > Can we schedule one in the second week of April (April 4th through 8th)?
> >
> > - R. Niwa
>
>
>
>


-- 
Takayoshi Kochi

RE: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Léonie Watson]

For a telecon, we can create a WebEx instance if that would be useful? Let
me know the date/time (UTC), and we'll get it sorted.

For an F2F, we'll need to post notice of the date/venue at least eight weeks
in advance [1]. Let me know the date(s)/venue, and we can do that too.

Léonie.
[1] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2016JanMar/0043.html


> -Original Message-
> From: rn...@apple.com [mailto:rn...@apple.com]
> Sent: 14 March 2016 23:56
> To: t...@tink.uk; Chaals McCathie Nevile 
> Cc: public-webapps 
> Subject: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> We've been making a good progress on shadow DOM and custom elements
> API but there seems to be a lot of open questions still.  I've asked a
couple of
> people involved in the discussion, and there seems to be an interest for
> having another tele-conference or an in-person meeting.
> 
> Can we schedule one in the second week of April (April 4th through 8th)?
> 
> - R. Niwa

RE: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Léonie Watson]

Would a meeting at TPAC be useful too? It’s 19 to 23 september, in Lisbon 
Portugal.

 

We need to request meeting space by the end of this month. So if so, let us 
know how much time you think you’ll need, and roughly how many people you think 
might attend.

 

Thanks.

Léonie.

From: Dimitri Glazkov [mailto:dglaz...@google.com] 
Sent: 15 March 2016 04:30
To: Ryosuke Niwa 
Cc: Léonie Watson ; Chaals McCathie Nevile 
; public-webapps 
Subject: Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

 

I am game, per usual.

 

:DG<

 

On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:55 PM, Ryosuke Niwa  > wrote:

Hi all,

We've been making a good progress on shadow DOM and custom elements API but 
there seems to be a lot of open questions still.  I've asked a couple of people 
involved in the discussion, and there seems to be an interest for having 
another tele-conference or an in-person meeting.

Can we schedule one in the second week of April (April 4th through 8th)?

- R. Niwa



 

Re: Telecon / meeting on first week of April for Web Components

[Hayato Ito]

Though I'm afraid that I can not attend the in-person meeting in April, I
can join remotely, per unusual.

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 1:35 PM Dimitri Glazkov  wrote:

> I am game, per usual.
>
> :DG<
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2016 at 4:55 PM, Ryosuke Niwa  wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We've been making a good progress on shadow DOM and custom elements API
>> but there seems to be a lot of open questions still.  I've asked a couple
>> of people involved in the discussion, and there seems to be an interest for
>> having another tele-conference or an in-person meeting.
>>
>> Can we schedule one in the second week of April (April 4th through 8th)?
>>
>> - R. Niwa
>>
>>
>>
>