[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

> > The Instagram team behind the Cinder project may be interested to > review Mark's work before it's merged into Python development branch. > A design PEP would be more convenient than reviewing an concrete > implementation. I can't speak for others on the Cinder team, but I would definitely

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

Hi, The gilectomy was mentioned earlier in the thread. This project was created by a core dev who had the permission to push directly his work into the development branch, but it was done on a work. Another optimization project example was my experimental "FAT Python" project. The main idea was

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

I've gotten some questions privately about my responses on this topic and so I wanted to take the opportunity to clarify a couple of things. First, I totally support the technical work that Guido, Eric, and Mark have planned. This whole line of questions is not meant to act as stop energy for

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On Wed, May 26, 2021 at 4:23 AM Mark Shannon wrote: > Hi Brett, > > On 26/05/2021 3:56 am, Brett Cannon wrote: > > > > > > On Tue., May 25, 2021, 12:58 Guido van Rossum, > > wrote: > > > > On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 12:34 PM Brett Cannon >

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

Hi Brett, On 26/05/2021 3:56 am, Brett Cannon wrote: On Tue., May 25, 2021, 12:58 Guido van Rossum, > wrote: On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 12:34 PM Brett Cannon mailto:br...@python.org>> wrote: I personally think it should be a Standards Track PEP. This PEP

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 7:56 PM Brett Cannon wrote: > > On Tue., May 25, 2021, 12:58 Guido van Rossum, wrote: > >> [...] >> Or do you think the "Standards Track" PEP should just codify general >> agreement that we're going to implement a specializing adaptive >> interpreter, with the level of

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On Tue., May 25, 2021, 12:58 Guido van Rossum, wrote: > On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 12:34 PM Brett Cannon wrote: > >> >> I personally think it should be a Standards Track PEP. This PEP isn't >> documenting some detail like PEP 13 or some release schedule, but is >> instead proposing a rather major

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

To potentially help provide a little bit of additional detail around our approach I've spent some time writing up our internal details of the shadow byte code implementation, and landed that in our Cinder repo here:

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 1:50 PM Łukasz Langa wrote: > > On 25 May 2021, at 21:57, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 12:34 PM Brett Cannon wrote: > >> >> I personally think it should be a Standards Track PEP. This PEP isn't >> documenting some detail like PEP 13 or some

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

> On 25 May 2021, at 21:57, Guido van Rossum wrote: > > On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 12:34 PM Brett Cannon > wrote: > > I personally think it should be a Standards Track PEP. This PEP isn't > documenting some detail like PEP 13 or some release schedule, but is instead >

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On Tue, May 25, 2021 at 12:34 PM Brett Cannon wrote: > > I personally think it should be a Standards Track PEP. This PEP isn't > documenting some detail like PEP 13 or some release schedule, but is > instead proposing a rather major change to the interpreter which a lot of > us will need to

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 1:38 AM Mark Shannon wrote: > Hi Terry, > > On 13/05/2021 8:20 am, Terry Reedy wrote: > > On 5/12/2021 1:40 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: > > > >> This is an informational PEP about a key part of our plan to improve > >> CPython performance for 3.11 and beyond. > > > > What is

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

Christopher Barker writes: > I find this whole conversation confusing -- does anyone really think a > substantial performance boost to cPython is not a "good thing"? > [PyPy, Numba, Cython] are why Python is very useful today -- but > none of them make the case that making cPython run faster

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

I find this whole conversation confusing -- does anyone really think a substantial performance boost to cPython is not a "good thing"? Worth the work? Maybe not, but it seems that Mark, Guido, and MS think it is -- more power to them! Anyway: potential 10% or 20% speedups in Python I believe

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

Oscar Benjamin writes: > The break even point where both implementations take equal time is > around about 5% density. What that means is that for a 1000 x 1000 > matrix with 10% of elements nonzero it is faster to ask flint to > construct an enormous dense matrix and perform a huge number of

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On 5/20/2021 10:49 AM, Oscar Benjamin wrote: On Thu, 20 May 2021 at 04:58, Terry Reedy wrote: I believe the ratio for the sort of numerical computing getting bogus complaints is sometimes more like 95% of *time* in compiled C and only, say, 5% of *time* in the Python interpreter. So even if

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On Thu, 20 May 2021 at 04:58, Terry Reedy wrote: > > On 5/13/2021 4:18 AM, Mark Shannon wrote: > > > If a program does 95% of its work in a C++ library and 5% in Python, it > > can easily spend the majority of its time in Python because CPython is a > > lot slower than C++ (in general). > > I

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On 5/13/2021 4:18 AM, Mark Shannon wrote: Hi Terry, On 13/05/2021 5:32 am, Terry Reedy wrote: On 5/12/2021 1:40 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: This is an informational PEP about a key part of our plan to improve CPython performance for 3.11 and beyond. As always, comments and suggestions are

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On Tue, May 18, 2021 at 8:51 PM Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: > > Steve Holden writes: > > On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 11:07 PM Steven D'Aprano > > wrote: > > > > > Steve > > > (one of the other ones) > > > > > > > We are all other Steves! > > +1 > > There were five Steves (and one Stephanie)

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

Steve Holden writes: > On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 11:07 PM Steven D'Aprano > wrote: > > > Steve > > (one of the other ones) > > > > We are all other Steves! +1 There were five Steves (and one Stephanie) in my 6th grade class (of 27). "Steve, move that " became an idiom -- Other

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

The related code that generates this bytecode https://www.credosystemz.com/training-in-chennai/best-python-training-in-chennai/ ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 11:07 PM Steven D'Aprano wrote: > Steve > (one of the other ones) > We are all other Steves! ___ Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-le...@python.org

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

> > > 3. Another example: I'm working right now on a feature to step into a > > method. To do that right now my approach is: > > - Compute the function call names and bytecode offsets in a given > > frame. > > - When a frame is called (during a frame.f_trace call), check the > > parent

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

Hi Fabio, On 13/05/2021 7:11 pm, Fabio Zadrozny wrote: Em qua., 12 de mai. de 2021 às 14:45, Mark Shannon > escreveu: Hi everyone, I would like to present PEP 659. This is an informational PEP about a key part of our plan to improve CPython

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 08:44:04AM -0700, Christopher Barker wrote: > I suggest we keep it really simple, and name the implementation. > > Building on Steve Holden’s suggestion: > > There is broad interest in improving the performance of the cPython > runtime. (Interpreter?) +1 As excellent as

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 03:20:31AM -0400, Terry Reedy wrote: > What is the purpose of this PEP? It seems in part to be like a > Standards Track PEP in that it proposes a new (revised) implementation > idea for the CPython bycode interpreter. Do you not intend this to not > constitute

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

Mark Shannon writes: > On 13/05/2021 5:32 am, Terry Reedy wrote: > > The claim that starts the Motivation section, "Python is widely > > acknowledged as slow.", has multiple problems. > How would you rephrase it, bearing in mind that needs to be short? We can make CPython run

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

Em qua., 12 de mai. de 2021 às 14:45, Mark Shannon escreveu: > Hi everyone, > > I would like to present PEP 659. > > This is an informational PEP about a key part of our plan to improve > CPython performance for 3.11 and beyond. > > For those of you aware of the recent releases of Cinder and

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

I suggest we keep it really simple, and name the implementation. Building on Steve Holden’s suggestion: There is broad interest in improving the performance of the cPython runtime. (Interpreter?) -CHB -- Christopher Barker, PhD (Chris) Python Language Consulting - Teaching - Scientific

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 09:18:27AM +0100, Mark Shannon wrote: > Since, faster == less energy for the same amount of work, making CPython > faster will reduce the amount of CO2 produced to do that work and > hopefully make it less of a concern. Work expands to fill the time available: if Python

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On Thu, May 13, 2021 at 9:18 AM Mark Shannon wrote: > Hi Terry, > > On 13/05/2021 5:32 am, Terry Reedy wrote: > > On 5/12/2021 1:40 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: > > > >> This is an informational PEP about a key part of our plan to improve > >> CPython performance for 3.11 and beyond. > > > >> As

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On Wed, May 12, 2021 at 10:48 AM Mark Shannon wrote: > ... > For those of you aware of the recent releases of Cinder and Pyston, > PEP 659 might look similar. > It is similar, but I believe PEP 659 offers better interpreter > performance and is more suitable to a collaborative, open-source >

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

Hi Terry, On 13/05/2021 8:20 am, Terry Reedy wrote: On 5/12/2021 1:40 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: This is an informational PEP about a key part of our plan to improve CPython performance for 3.11 and beyond. What is the purpose of this PEP?  It seems in part to be like a Standards Track PEP in

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On Thu, 13 May 2021 at 09:23, Mark Shannon wrote: > > Hi Terry, > > On 13/05/2021 5:32 am, Terry Reedy wrote: > > On 5/12/2021 1:40 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: > > > >> This is an informational PEP about a key part of our plan to improve > >> CPython performance for 3.11 and beyond. > > > >> As

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

Hi Terry, On 13/05/2021 5:32 am, Terry Reedy wrote: On 5/12/2021 1:40 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: This is an informational PEP about a key part of our plan to improve CPython performance for 3.11 and beyond. As always, comments and suggestions are welcome. The claim that starts the

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On 5/12/2021 1:40 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: This is an informational PEP about a key part of our plan to improve CPython performance for 3.11 and beyond. What is the purpose of this PEP? It seems in part to be like a Standards Track PEP in that it proposes a new (revised) implementation idea

[Python-Dev] Re: PEP 659: Specializing Adaptive Interpreter

On 5/12/2021 1:40 PM, Mark Shannon wrote: This is an informational PEP about a key part of our plan to improve CPython performance for 3.11 and beyond. As always, comments and suggestions are welcome. The claim that starts the Motivation section, "Python is widely acknowledged as slow.",