Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Chris Barker wrote: By the way, I've often thought of forming a company that would produce just what we've been talking about here, but with a bit of a twist: A set of Python environments for doing specialized development. Some ideas are: --A database app environment, as easy to use as FileMake

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Bob Ippolito wrote: On Feb 14, 2005, at 12:09 PM, has wrote: My preferred IDE architecture would be built on a completely component-oriented architecture. That way it can ship with the minimal components required to get started, and users can add, upgrade and remove components as and when they n

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 15, 2005, at 6:00, Michael Hudson wrote: Bob Ippolito <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: On Feb 15, 2005, at 5:48, Michael Hudson wrote: I don't know. If I did know, I'd probably have done it. It would help if Apple shipped Python with readline support enabled, for starters. I think it's a licens

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Bob Ippolito <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Feb 15, 2005, at 5:48, Michael Hudson wrote: > >> I don't know. If I did know, I'd probably have done it. It would >> help if Apple shipped Python with readline support enabled, for >> starters. > > I think it's a licensing issue, Apple is probably

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 15, 2005, at 5:48, Michael Hudson wrote: Louis Pecora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: Michael Hudson wrote: Well, I think this is a subjective judgement -- a matter of familiarity. I "play" with Python all the time. A good start is to enhance your interactive experience somewhat. Three option

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

"Chris Barker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > That would be nice, but I have even less of an idea how to get money > for hat than I do getting venture capital to start a > business. However, perhaps this is just what one poster proposed: the > PSF could fund a good cross-platform IDE. I don't thin

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Louis Pecora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > Michael Hudson wrote: > >>Well, I think this is a subjective judgement -- a matter of >>familiarity. I "play" with Python all the time. A good start is to >>enhance your interactive experience somewhat. Three options spring to >>mind: >> >> 1) Get read

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 14, 2005, at 9:21 PM, Bill Janssen wrote: If I'm going to be developing closed stuff, I might as well target a larger market than current and future Python developers :) Well, that's good. My projects are typically a mix of Python, Java, and Jython, often with a bit of C, C++, HTML, CSS and

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

> If I'm going to be developing closed stuff, I might as well > target a larger market than current and future Python developers :) Well, that's good. My projects are typically a mix of Python, Java, and Jython, often with a bit of C, C++, HTML, CSS and Javascript, all mixed together. An IDE th

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 14, 2005, at 19:47, Chris Barker wrote: Bob Ippolito wrote: I'm definitely interested in these things (more some than others), but I'm currently professionally committed to some other stuff. The real problem I'd have with this sort of business venture is doing it in a way that's compati

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

I don't want to beat this dead horse any farther into the ground, but: I'm working on a small but not toy app, one or two thousand lines in eight modules. To build and debug a module with "if __name__ == '__main__'", I can use TextWrangler's Run, or Run-with-debug if I want to get down into pdb

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 14, 2005, at 18:29, has wrote: Bob Ippolito wrote: Personally, I hope that developers See The Light and do interface building in a separate but integrated application like Xcode and Interface Builder. Exactly. Or separate, integrateable components that plug into a common base framework. Wel

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Bob Ippolito wrote: I'm definitely interested in these things (more some than others), but I'm currently professionally committed to some other stuff. The real problem I'd have with this sort of business venture is doing it in a way that's compatible with open source, but still making enough m

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Bob Ippolito wrote: Maybe because in many cases, the users are the developers and adding those 20%s together makes for some big ugly mess. I'm not sure that qualifies as an excuse; more making their bed and lying in it. :) Well the people writing these things obviously write it such that it suits

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

I don't know if this answers the question, but I've been using wxSTCs in my apps (there's no other way to display or edit text over 32k), and they seem to work just fine. One app uses an STC to load, for example, a 4.5 meg text file and do some searches on it. It's all very quick and painless.

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Troy Rollins wrote: I think that what the new user really want, more than "free", is something which provides a "raodmap to being productive." I've lost track, have you tried any of the proprietary tools? (Wing, etc.). I know I haven't. but the whole project? It is just too big, with too many lin

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Bob Ippolito wrote: Dumb question: What's wrong with wxScintilla? Doesn't SPE use it as well? What's Boa using? It's currently really slow on Mac OS X, as mentioned before. I don't like environments where I can type faster than the redraw. No idea about Boa. Boa uses wxScintilla (AKA wxSTC) al

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 14, 2005, at 4:32 PM, Wolfgang Keller wrote: Speaking of DrPython, I have an example of having it packaged in the py2app svn trunk.. but as it uses wxScintilla, it isn't really very fun to play with. Dumb question: What's wrong with wxScintilla? Doesn't SPE use it as well? What's Boa using

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

> Speaking of DrPython, I have an example of having it packaged in the > py2app svn trunk.. but as it uses wxScintilla, it isn't really very fun > to play with. Dumb question: What's wrong with wxScintilla? Doesn't SPE use it as well? What's Boa using? Best regards, Wolfgang Keller __

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

> > I know that there are open-source versions of all of these: SciPy, Dabo, > Pythoncard, Zope, etc., but they don't have the polish that you'd need > to attract the type of newbies that are at the core of this thread. > True enough. There have been no shortage of excellent thoughts and suggesti

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

> To some extent, while Guido could endorse something (which is more or > less the case with IDLE), there is no way to name something the > "official one", and even if there were, there's nothing to stop folks > from going out on their own anyway. Sure, but... > Thus is the nature of open-sour

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 14, 2005, at 3:27 PM, Chris Barker wrote: Wolfgang Keller wrote: If for each given problem one implementation was chosen as "the official one" To some extent, while Guido could endorse something (which is more or less the case with IDLE), there is no way to name something the "official on

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 14, 2005, at 3:08 PM, Wolfgang Keller wrote: I tried SPE, PythonCard, PyOxice, PyPE, eclipse and wing (under x11). Supposed to run on MacOS X: Eric3, Boa Constructor, DrPython (?), Leo (not exactly a conventional IDE) Speaking of DrPython, I have an example of having it packaged in the py2

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Wolfgang Keller wrote: If for each given problem one implementation was chosen as "the official one" To some extent, while Guido could endorse something (which is more or less the case with IDLE), there is no way to name something the "official one", and even if there were, there's nothing to st

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

> I tried SPE, PythonCard, PyOxice, PyPE, eclipse and > wing (under x11). Supposed to run on MacOS X: Eric3, Boa Constructor, DrPython (?), Leo (not exactly a conventional IDE) Maybe someday as well: BlackAdder It doesn't seem to me that there are no IDEs available for Python on MacOS X (or an

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 14, 2005, at 2:29 PM, has wrote: Bob Ippolito wrote: > MS builds software that way cos they like to get their users locked into > a perpetual upgrade cycle from which they can make money, but what's > OSS's excuse? Maybe because in many cases, the users are the developers and adding th

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Bob Ippolito wrote: > MS builds software that way cos they like to get their users locked into > a perpetual upgrade cycle from which they can make money, but what's > OSS's excuse? Maybe because in many cases, the users are the developers and adding those 20%s together makes for some big ugly m

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Louis Pecora wrote: > P.S. I have not yet had time to try out Chris Barker's packaging of > matplotlib. I hope to do that later this month, but BIG KUDOS to him > for trying to make the code available to more people. Gee thanks! As it turns out, Robert Kern is working on MacEnthon, which will sup

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 14, 2005, at 1:02 PM, Chris Barker wrote: Roger Binns wrote: My wxPython code is hand coded. I haven't found any of the design tools to be much good for non-trivial projects. For example try doing something like the wxPython demo with one of them. They also don't work well if you have cus

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Roger Binns wrote: My wxPython code is hand coded. I haven't found any of the design tools to be much good for non-trivial projects. For example try doing something like the wxPython demo with one of them. They also don't work well if you have custom widgets, which is a lot of my UI. This brings

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Robert Kern wrote: It's called "Enthon." There will be a new release (for Windows and Linux) with more stuff, like matplotlib, Soon(TM). http://www.enthought.com/downloads/downloads.htm There will be a Mac release A Little Later Than Soon(TM). http://www.scipy.org/wikis/featurerequests/MacEnthon

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Bob Ippolito wrote: Well, either the current state if Python tools is good enough or it isn't. Perhaps the threat of a new user not sticking with Python is suitable motivation for some developers, but obviously not all of them, because then Python would do everything for everyone already :) Py

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Brendan Simons wrote: TextWrangler, however, has good Python support, including cmd-r to run the present script. They've even written a parser for traceback, so when I get a runtime error, TW drops me right where I made the mistake. Handy. But does it do Python indenting correctly? This is

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Michael Hudson wrote: Well, I think this is a subjective judgement -- a matter of familiarity. I "play" with Python all the time. A good start is to enhance your interactive experience somewhat. Three options spring to mind: 1) Get readline support working. If you're still using Apple's Pyth

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 14, 2005, at 12:09 PM, has wrote: Charles Hartman wrote: So an environment (in the vernacular, not the Unix sense) is what the beginner needs -- an IDE from within which everything you need to do can be done, and not dangerously much else. But if the IDE is complete enough for this beginn

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Troy Rollins wrote: Well, I've transitioned between tools like Director, REALbasic, and Revolution, and extremely quickly moved into creating non-trivial applications. With Python, it is far less condusive to "playing" and therefore seems to hold me somewhere around the print "hello world" stage. Y

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Charles Hartman wrote: So an environment (in the vernacular, not the Unix sense) is what the beginner needs -- an IDE from within which everything you need to do can be done, and not dangerously much else. But if the IDE is complete enough for this beginner to work in, isn't it likely to be a r

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 13, 2005, at 5:00 PM, has wrote: There's a paradox at work here. What newbies need from an IDE is _very different_ to what experienced users expect from one. I don't think I agree with this. Or rather, I don't really see why it should be true. I don't think the issue is the lack of a toddl

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 13, 2005, at 6:11 PM, Hudson wrote: And that's the whole crux of the matter: Most people who come to Python aren't interested in learning IDEs, or Python, or anything else. The only thing they're interested in doing is creating cool software to do useful stuff, and every second they're ha

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 13, 2005, at 15:05, Mike Mellor wrote: On Feb 13, 2005, at 12:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 13, 2005, at 10:59 AM, Troy wrote: I for one, don't care to think of myself in the context of "begger", but more so in the context of uninitiated contributor. If developers, new to python, ha

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Louis Pecora wrote: Interesting comment. I do know that there is a lot of interest in Python in the scientific community. Some SIAM (Society for Industrial and Applied Mathematics -- BIG coverage there) conferences have had special minisymposia on using Python for numerical coding. But most

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 13, 2005, at 12:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Feb 13, 2005, at 10:59 AM, Troy wrote: I for one, don't care to think of myself in the context of "begger", but more so in the context of uninitiated contributor. If developers, new to python, have a barrier to entry, they may well walk of t

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 13, 2005, at 12:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just received 3 books on Python from Amazon. Every one of them starts with the line "this book does not teach you to program in Python, and assumes you already know how to do that." Perhaps it is just my own dumb luck, but that is the angle m

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

> software to do useful stuff, and every second they're having to sit > and learn some tedious crap before they can do that is a second > they're being kept from achieving that goal. On the other hand, I recently did a quick in-office tutorial of "order some pizza, throw one of our legacy perl sc

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Michael Hudson wrote: > [Many new developers] would > prefer to get started (at least) within the relative controlled environment of an IDE. However, it probably is a good deal less effort to explain to newcomers how to get going without an IDE thatn to write one. There's a paradox at work here.

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 13, 2005, at 14:29, Just van Rossum wrote: Bob Ippolito wrote: Another fun project is DrawBot by Just, it's a Proce55ing like program to learn about graphics. Yeah, DrawBot is really cool. Note that this is an unofficial fork that is NOT endorsed by me. In fa

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Bob Ippolito wrote: > > Another fun project is DrawBot by Just, it's a Proce55ing like > > program to learn about graphics. > > Yeah, DrawBot is really cool. Note that this is an unofficial fork that is NOT endorsed by me. In fact I have told the guy last week he

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Jon Schull wrote: Bob Ippolito wrote: Open source developers work on whatever they want or need to work on, so the particular problems you have will get solved when someone with the time, skill, and motivation to do so decides to scratch that itch. If you want to speed this proc

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Brendan Simons wrote: That was a big obstacle against many of the text editors I tried to use. TextWrangler, however, has good Python support, including cmd-r to run the present script. They've even written a parser for traceback, so when I get a runtime error, TW drops me right where I ma

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 13, 2005, at 9:23, Jon Schull wrote: Open source developers work on whatever they want or need to work on, so the particular problems you have will get solved when someone with the time, skill, and motivation to do so decides to scratch that itch. If you want to speed this process along,

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 13, 2005, at 13:19, Arthur Elsenaar wrote: On Feb 13, 2005, at 17:01, Troy Rollins wrote: Well, I've transitioned between tools like Director, REALbasic, and Revolution, and extremely quickly moved into creating non-trivial applications. With Python, it is far less condusive to "playing" and

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 13, 2005, at 17:01, Troy Rollins wrote: Well, I've transitioned between tools like Director, REALbasic, and Revolution, and extremely quickly moved into creating non-trivial applications. With Python, it is far less condusive to "playing" and therefore seems to hold me somewhere around the p

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Troy Rollins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 16:12:13 +, Michael Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Troy Rollins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: >> >> > I for one, don't care to think of myself in the context of "begger", >> > but more so in the context of uninitiated contribu

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 16:12:13 +, Michael Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Troy Rollins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > > > I for one, don't care to think of myself in the context of "begger", > > but more so in the context of uninitiated contributor. If developers, > > new to python, have a ba

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Andrew Meit <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > On Feb 13, 2005, at 10:59 AM, Troy wrote: > >> I for one, don't care to think of myself in the context of "begger", >> but more so in the context of uninitiated contributor. If developers, >> new to python, have a barrier to entry, they may well walk of to

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 13, 2005, at 10:59 AM, Troy wrote: I for one, don't care to think of myself in the context of "begger", but more so in the context of uninitiated contributor. If developers, new to python, have a barrier to entry, they may well walk of to Ruby, or Lua... etc. At some point, I'd like to be co

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Troy Rollins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > I for one, don't care to think of myself in the context of "begger", > but more so in the context of uninitiated contributor. If developers, > new to python, have a barrier to entry, they may well walk of to Ruby, > or Lua... etc. At some point, I'd like

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

> > .. beggars can't be choosers :) > > > > -bob [ comment in the context of distribution packages but it applies > > to the discussion of IDE chaos as well]. > > My comment: > > (1) In this business, beggars do choose, and they vote with their > feet. If a beginner-friendly IDE is not an inte

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

's only using IOKit, CoreFoundation, and POSIX: http://www.opensource.apple.com/darwinsource/10.3.8/IOKitTools-38/ioreg.tproj/ -bob From: Bob Ippolito <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Date: February 12, 2005 7:04:03 PM EST To: Louis Pecora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: PythonMac Subject: Re: [Pyth

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Bob Ippolito wrote: However, it would be entirely possible to build an "Enthought Python" type distribution for Mac OS X using these facilities as-is. At least one person is interested in creating such a distribution , but it's not ready y

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 12, 2005, at 6:25 PM, Louis Pecora wrote: Bob Ippolito wrote: I really like the ability to edit and just hit cmd-R to run the script. The IDE could use some updating and wart removal. Syntax coloring, better scrolling (that's damaged right now), use of scroll wheel (if present), a few ot

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On 11-Feb-05, at 6:32 PM, Lou Pecora wrote: I don't really understand how your are doing the development. You have to jump to a term window to run the script? That was a big obstacle against many of the text editors I tried to use. TextWrangler, however, has good Python support, including cm

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

import pdb ; pdb.set_trace() Use this instead: import pdb; pdb.Pdb().set_trace() It is more convenient in that you end up at the stack level you actually want to be at, rather than inside [pdb] Yes, but it is 4 more characters to type extra Pdb(). versus 'n' and return :-) Roger _

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 11, 2005, at 11:12 PM, Roger Binns wrote: import pdb ; pdb.set_trace() Use this instead: import pdb; pdb.Pdb().set_trace() It is more convenient in that you end up at the stack level you actually want to be at, rather than inside [pdb] Yes, but it is 4 more characters to type extra Pdb()

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 11, 2005, at 14:29, Bob Ippolito wrote: On Feb 11, 2005, at 12:51, Roger Binns wrote: I don't really understand how your are doing the development. You have to jump to a term window to run the script? I use xemacs as my editor. The main functionality used is the syntax colouring. It also

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 11, 2005, at 12:36, Louis Pecora wrote: Brendan Simons wrote: The IDE thread is a recurring one. Here's my experience as another Python newbie. I tried SPE, PythonCard, PyOxice, PyPE, eclipse and wing (under x11). All work, but I found that each one had enough quirks (mostly UI inconsi

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 11, 2005, at 12:51, Roger Binns wrote: I don't really understand how your are doing the development. You have to jump to a term window to run the script? I use xemacs as my editor. The main functionality used is the syntax colouring. It also has a menu bar plugin (IM-Python) that lists t

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

I don't really understand how your are doing the development. You have to jump to a term window to run the script? I use xemacs as my editor. The main functionality used is the syntax colouring. It also has a menu bar plugin (IM-Python) that lists the classes and methods in the current file and

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

Brendan Simons wrote: The IDE thread is a recurring one. Here's my experience as another Python newbie. I tried SPE, PythonCard, PyOxice, PyPE, eclipse and wing (under x11). All work, but I found that each one had enough quirks (mostly UI inconsistencies, but some are downright unstable) th

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

On Feb 9, 2005, at 10:00 PM, Brendan Simons wrote: The only thing I'm missing now is a debugger with breakpoints, call stack, and variable watches. I'll have to settle for random print statements for now. Right -- which is exactly to say, for somebody like me -- and there seem to be quite a fe

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

Actually, I know wxWidgets was designed, from the beginning, to be cross platform, specifically targeting Windows and Unix (X, originally Motif). I think that's where the "w" and "x" comes from. Yes, it was intended to be cross platform from the begining. But it was started on Windows and a lot

[Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python Newbies

The IDE thread is a recurring one. Here's my experience as another Python newbie. I tried SPE, PythonCard, PyOxice, PyPE, eclipse and wing (under x11). All work, but I found that each one had enough quirks (mostly UI inconsistencies, but some are downright unstable) that I was less producti

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

On Feb 9, 2005, at 9:36 PM, Bill Janssen wrote: You're certainly correct that none of them had the Mac as a target at the beginning. If only Apple would port Cocoa to Unix... Isn't that what they've done? Sure seems like it to me. Speaking in those terms, hasn't it *always* run on Unix? :) -bob _

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

> You're certainly correct that none of them had the Mac as a target at > the beginning. If only Apple would port Cocoa to Unix... Isn't that what they've done? Sure seems like it to me. Bill ___ Pythonmac-SIG maillist - Pythonmac-SIG@python.org ht

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

On Feb 9, 2005, at 6:28 PM, Chris Barker wrote: Just a slight clarification: Roger Binns wrote: If you look at open source graphical toolkits that support at least two platforms, you won't find any that started on the Mac. These are the ones I know of that can be used from Python and where they s

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

Just a slight clarification: Roger Binns wrote: If you look at open source graphical toolkits that support at least two platforms, you won't find any that started on the Mac. These are the ones I know of that can be used from Python and where they started. - QT (Unix) - wxWidgets (Windows) > -

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

On Feb 9, 2005, at 13:14, Chris Barker wrote: Bob Ippolito wrote: In our case, it was roughly 10x easier to hit the Mac platform first. Wow! That is a BIG ratio...really? Yeah, Cocoa already did all the view stuff and it took no time at all to lay it out in Interface Builder. The domain specific

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

Bob Ippolito wrote: In our case, it was roughly 10x easier to hit the Mac platform first. Wow! That is a BIG ratio...really? The Tkinter GUI and the PyObjC GUI share a bunch of code (as much as is reasonable). Ah, that explains it. The Tkinter GUI actually has code in it to emulate a bunch of Ma

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

Even still, given how wrong it is for NetBSD, I find it hard to assign any weight at all to what sourceforge's numbers are. http://freshmeat.net/browse/199/ Quite simply my experience has been that there is a large amount of open source for Windows, despite Microsoft's general disdain for it. I be

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

> I like portable applications, so am usually forced to write UIs > in Java Swing. But when I do use Python, I prefer PyGTK Of course, perhaps the right thing to do is use Jython with Swing. That way you get to use Python with an Apple-supported binding to Cocoa. Or perhaps IronPython on Mono wi

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

After all that, I'd like to say this: BitPim is pretty impressive, despite its dependency on DSV. Eh? DSV is one file, available as open source and is used to parse comma seperated values files (or Delimiter Seperated Values to be more generic). I can't see how that is remotely relevant. Roger _

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

On Feb 9, 2005, at 3:31 AM, Brian Lenihan wrote: After all that, I'd like to say this: BitPim is pretty impressive, despite its dependency on DSV. I have a $5.00 a month ATT plan that precludes me from enjoying any of the benefits with my personal cell phone (hate), but that does not prevent me

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

On Feb 8, 2005, at 10:50 PM, Roger Binns wrote: Yeah, exactly. There's not even twice as many Windows projects as Mac OS X projects, and far more Linux projects that Windows projects. Note that it didn't include Windows 98 or the generic Win32 category (trying to categorise a project on SourceFor

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

On Feb 9, 2005, at 1:50 AM, Roger Binns wrote: Yeah, exactly. There's not even twice as many Windows projects as Mac OS X projects, and far more Linux projects that Windows projects. Note that it didn't include Windows 98 or the generic Win32 category (trying to categorise a project on SourceForg

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

Yeah, exactly. There's not even twice as many Windows projects as Mac OS X projects, and far more Linux projects that Windows projects. Note that it didn't include Windows 98 or the generic Win32 category (trying to categorise a project on SourceForge is a real pain!) It doesn't matter how chea

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

On 8-Feb-05, at 9:07 PM, Roger Binns wrote: - QT (Unix) - GTK (Unix) - wxWidgets (Windows) - Tk (Unix) - Fltk (Unix) - Fox (Unix) Of course there are also: - Swing (Unix) - Mozilla/XUL Runner (???) - GnuStep (Unix) [This lets you use most of the OS X UI on Unix and Windows] - PyGame (Unix?)

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

On Feb 9, 2005, at 12:07 AM, Roger Binns wrote: This is a very valid point, but since when has that really mattered to people writing open source software? Windows certainly doesn't seem to have more support from the open source community than anything else. http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/t

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

This is a very valid point, but since when has that really mattered to people writing open source software? Windows certainly doesn't seem to have more support from the open source community than anything else. http://sourceforge.net/softwaremap/trove_list.php?form_cat=418 As a counter-point, de

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

> Well, whenever I have to use wxPython, that's how it feels. I > definitely recommend it over Tkinter, pyGTK, and PyQT, though. Hmmm. I like portable applications, so am usually forced to write UIs in Java Swing. But when I do use Python, I prefer PyGTK; I think the toolkit is better designed

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

On Feb 8, 2005, at 22:12, Roger Binns wrote: Mac OS X has only been around a few years and there aren't many people working on making it better (though I'm sure there are lots of people using it), so you can't really expect a best of breed solution just yet. There was, and still is to a certain

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

Probably because most of the Python world isn't developing GUI applications (though seems to be a big swing in this direction). As a counterpoint, there are approximately 30,000 downloads of wxPython for each version. wxPython is typically used by developers and the packaged apps are used by the

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

Bob Ippolito wrote: Also, Mac OS X has only been around a few years and there aren't many people working on making it better (though I'm sure there are lots of people using it), so you can't really expect a best of breed solution just yet. True, but frankly, the IDE situation is not that much b

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

On Feb 8, 2005, at 7:40 PM, Troy Rollins wrote: On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 17:59:46 -0500, Bob Ippolito <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Feb 8, 2005, at 5:46 PM, Troy Rollins wrote: cohesive toolset. There are thousands of individual parts and pieces, lots of semi-working IDEs and debuggers... Welcome to fre

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

On Tue, 8 Feb 2005 17:59:46 -0500, Bob Ippolito <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Feb 8, 2005, at 5:46 PM, Troy Rollins wrote: > > cohesive toolset. There are thousands of individual parts and pieces, > > lots of semi-working IDEs and debuggers... > > Welcome to free software? Ha. Fair enough.

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

On Feb 8, 2005, at 7:09 PM, Chris Barker wrote: Bob Ippolito wrote: 3) A GUI toolkit (wxWidgets?) I'd highly recommend PyObjC if cross-platform isn't an immediate goal. Well, if it's a goal at all, consider other options. Otherwise, Bob is right, even though I've never used it. Well if it's not an

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

Bob Ippolito wrote: Getting you, the Mac user who is familiar with scripting, up and running with - 1) Python There are a number of good books out there. I recommend "Dive Into Python" (in print or on the web) and "Learning Python" 2) An IDE and debugger (Xcode?) Don't be too dismayed by the lac

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

> I don't know if I > want to tackle this without the "security" of an environment which > includes code colorization (if not completion), a debugger, and > ideally a interactive interpreter tied in for command line testing. I use Emacs for all of this. python-mode.el works well for colorization,

Re: [Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

On Feb 8, 2005, at 5:46 PM, Troy Rollins wrote: I'm a developer who primarily works with higher level languages, and integrated tools. Director, REALbasic, Revolution. I've done plenty of advanced scripting with those tools, and am trying to move into Python for the open-source benefits, among othe

[Pythonmac-SIG] Mac User Python newbies

I'm a developer who primarily works with higher level languages, and integrated tools. Director, REALbasic, Revolution. I've done plenty of advanced scripting with those tools, and am trying to move into Python for the open-source benefits, among other things. I've just ordered several books which