On Monday, June 16, 2014 10:35:09 AM UTC-4, Patrick Moore wrote: (Yes, I do
consider the 39 on my Ram as a granny -- my small cog is a 16.)
I am curious. What size and number cogs do you run 16 - ? and I assume
that you had to assemble yourself or was is sold in that configuration
For the record, I'd prefer a 17 t outer cog (84 high) so as to bring the
middle 20 and 21 t cruising cogs outward by one place. I may just revert to
a 17-26 (or 27) 8 speed, since with just 8 I can fudge the outer.
That said: 16-17-18-19-20-21-22-24-26. Not sold in any shop.
Or, better, swap the
Which sounds fine. Alternatively can't one go to smaller rings and get a
similar effect with stock cassettes?
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Do FDs leave a footprint when you take them off your seat tube?
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Ted
No, I haven't been up Welch Creek Road. Did you see somebody there and
thought it might have been me?
On Friday, August 8, 2014 9:23:36 PM UTC-7, ted wrote:
Bill, have you been up say Welch Creek rd. off Calaveras?
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Nope. I thought you might want something smaller than a 35 gear there. As in a
reason to want lower than 35 on a road bike.
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Oh, I see. I promise that if I choose to tackle the steepest climbs in any
particular geographic area, I'll bring a low gear. If I had to grab one of
my bikes down off the hook right now and do Welch Road, I suppose I'd
choose the Hillborne which has a 23 low gear. The Bombadil has an 18
All perfectly valid and true etc. I was just pulling your leg, or poking
some fun, or whatever. Of course by all means try the 1x9 on the road bike
and have fun. It sure sounds fun.
If you ever do find your way south east of sunol, welch creek is a nice
wooded, narrow, lightly traveled, dead
Destroyed my front d on a ride just days before my solo PDX-Lost Coast-SF
tour. Kept it in the middle until i hit the climb out of Ferndale, placing
it- by hand-back to the middle guy after getting onto Hwy 1. No big deal.
On Thursday, August 7, 2014 3:14:19 PM UTC-7, Matthew J wrote:
Of
There's a MeetYourMaker ride starting/ending at White Industries this
coming Saturday at 10AM, with a tour of the plant somewhere in there. If
you can gear it up tomorrow and get there in time, there's tacos and beer
when you're done.
http://meetyourmakertour.com/rides/aug-9-2014/
Peter Adler
Perfect time to show White the 5t dingle concept...
Philip
www.biketinker.com
On Thursday, August 7, 2014 11:48:45 PM UTC-7, Peter Adler wrote:
There's a MeetYourMaker ride starting/ending at White Industries this
coming Saturday at 10AM, with a tour of the plant somewhere in there. If
you
One detail I had missed:
White Industries absolutely does make an adapter ring that allows you to
run a SRAM XX1chainring on your VBC (or ENO) arms. So, if you want to
build up a 1xwhatever, and want to use White crankarms and want wide-narrow
chainring technology, then you absolutely can do
What!? Really? Never heard or have seen one of those. Can you elaborate?
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 2:21 PM, Bill Lindsay tapebu...@gmail.com wrote:
One detail I had missed:
White Industries absolutely does make an adapter ring that allows you to
run a SRAM XX1chainring on your VBC (or ENO)
Ah I see, must be referring to this device?
http://www.singlespeed.nl/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=31products_id=1505osCsid=db29d7f9d6b8c788f8b18fcc8765ad3e
That is very cool. Though it would be a bummer to have WI cranks without
their cool rings to match.
On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at
Wow. I had no idea. Wonderful.
On Friday, August 8, 2014 2:35:26 PM UTC-5, Mark Reimer wrote:
Ah I see, must be referring to this device?
http://www.singlespeed.nl/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=31products_id=1505osCsid=db29d7f9d6b8c788f8b18fcc8765ad3e
That is very cool.
It's $50 MSRP on the White Industries pricelist, and so any LBS that orders
from White should be able to get it for you. I wonder if I could show up
at MyM and talk them out of one?
On Friday, August 8, 2014 12:50:49 PM UTC-7, Matthew J wrote:
Wow. I had no idea. Wonderful.
On
Bill, have you been up say Welch Creek rd. off Calaveras?
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To
That is too bad. With the rise of 1x8/9/10 and now 11, I think they could
really expand their customer base with a good wide-narrow option. Hopefully
they change their mind in time.
Agreed to a point. I like WI stuff. The more reasons to buy the better.
I would love to have a WI crank on
I think White Industries can afford to offer a wide/narrow chainring for
exactly the reasons you say that they can't afford to. To CNC a chainring,
they need a CNC mill, the right materials, tooling and fixturing suitable
to hold the material, and a competent CNC operator. They already have
I like the 4 tooth difference, since I have 17/21 Surly Dingle cogs on two
bikes, which gives 67.5 and 50 with 42/38 rings.
That seems low on the top end, but seems to work. I also have a 15t on the
flip side for a 76.5 gear.
That spread works for my riding, where a 2 or 3 tooth gap does not.
Tinker, I think that's brilliant. Let's ride out to Petaluma and pitch it to
them. To make a 16/21 dos freewheel, the just need to make the drivering.
Heck, we might be able to make one ourselves. otherwise you can run dual
single freewheels on a flipflop.
you can easily do 43/38 today
I think White Industries can afford to offer a wide/narrow chainring for
exactly the reasons you say that they can't afford to...
Well, I certainly hope you are right. As should be clear I am both a WI
and 1X fan. .
Still, I wonder whether it will happen. CAM is certainly not as
On that note, I wonder if it's any more likely that a third party would
make compatible wide-narrow rings. I have noticed there are at least one or
two other direct-mount wide-narrow ring manufacturers out there, making
rings for SRAM's XO/1x11 system, but I guess the demand is much higher for
For sure *if* their CNC mill is already running at full capacity, *then*
they need more capacity in order to expand their offerings and supply more
parts.
To me it's all about their perception of a need (do 1x riders really drop
their chain with our current parts?), followed by a willingness
I have a VBC crankset on my road bike. It's a 44/30. I could just
remove the front derailer and the 30T ring, and put on a bigger cassette.
Maybe borrow the Rivvy 12-34 from my Hillborne. That would give me a
1x9 with gears of: 35,42,50,57,66,74,85,91,99
That's what I'm thinking.
--
Of course I would way rather buy direct from White. Their stuff has always
been great and I'd prefer to support them directly.
I'm trying to think if anyone else makes WI compatible rings of any sort.
It could be WI has IP protection for the ring/arm interface and will not
license. Just
I could rig a 44/39 pretty easily I think, depending on BCD, and I have a 17t
WI cog. A 22t FW would give the 5 tooth difference.
We ride over to White Industries World Headquarters, I buy a 22t FW, and spin
it on while you explain the concept. Ride out to the Tin Bar, discuss it over a
pint.
Timely revisit!
Maybe others here know already but somehow I missed that Raceface now
offers a narrow wide tooth chainring that purportedly reduces chain
slipping in 1x set up. They come in 104, 110 and 130 bcd with a fair range
of tooth choices up to 44T (might go higher but that is highest
I've long entertained the idea of converting my 27-speed bike to a 1 x 9
and now that I have (successfully) built up another old frame as a
single-speed, I think I'm going to go thru with it. The steepest hills I'm
likely to ride 99.9% of the time were doable at @ 25 gear inches (26x28).
I
As far as I'm concerned, there is only one option for a 1x8/9/10/whatever
drive train, which is a wide-narrow chainring up front.
I race cross with a single 42t up front and a 12-25 in the back. The
chainring is made by Wolf Tooth Components (what a name!), though there are
many other
Fantastic, Tony! That really looks great!
In my own experiment, I did quite a few miles of trail and road where I
needed my granny on my Continental Divide trip. So much as I'd love a 1x9
set up, I'm keeping the triple (the outer ring is essential a rock guard
for me, as the chipped teeth
Mark,
Great info on the Wolf Tooth (I also love the name!). I had looked at
these rings before the WI crank fell into my lap... I might look at one of
those for my single speed although I haven't had any chain keeping issues.
I was also looking at the surly stainless rings as they have tall
Ah right, I forgot you had the WI crank. With the increasing number of
companies doing the wide-narrow rings, I'm really hoping WI will do their
own version some day.
On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 12:38 PM, Tony DeFilippo vpi...@gmail.com wrote:
Mark,
Great info on the Wolf Tooth (I also love the
I just emailed White Industries with exactly that question: whether they'd
ever offer a wide/narrow ring. It's a natural for folks like them. I'll
post if I hear back
On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 11:38:04 AM UTC-7, Mark Reimer wrote:
Ah right, I forgot you had the WI crank. With the
Yes! That looks so hot.
I was surprised at the feel of the White Industries cranks, too. They
feel stronger, straighter, truer, and more 'engaged' than any other crank
I've used. Back to back, Shimano 44t switched to WI 44t, ridden within
minutes of each other, the White cranks felt better.
I too hope that they do, even though I've had zero chain-losing issues with
my WI 1x9.
I also think they should make a road double-double in 38/42, but haven't
pinged them about it.
Philip
www.biketinker.com
On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 12:42:22 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote:
I just
They replied already, saying that they have discussed it internally, but
there is no specific plan in place at the moment.
On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 3:47:20 PM UTC-7, Philip Williamson wrote:
I too hope that they do, even though I've had zero chain-losing issues
with my WI 1x9.
I also
They replied already, saying that they have discussed it internally, but
there is no specific plan in place at the moment.
I think White's mindset is more single speed where wide/narrow does not
make a difference.
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Meant to add - WT has a few out of the ordinary compatibles, wonder if they
might be inclined to do a WI.
On Wednesday, August 6, 2014 8:31:44 PM UTC-5, Matthew J wrote:
They replied already, saying that they have discussed it internally, but
there is no specific plan in place at the
That is too bad. With the rise of 1x8/9/10 and now 11, I think they could
really expand their customer base with a good wide-narrow option. Hopefully
they change their mind in time.
On Wed, Aug 6, 2014 at 8:31 PM, Matthew J matthewj...@gmail.com wrote:
They replied already, saying that they
Philip, I definitely know what you mean and heartily second your idea for a
'Road double-double'... Wouldn't it be possible to do a wider than 4T
delta if they mirrored it in the back? Like a 34x22 and 40x16... The
options are endless, I understand why they have to focus on a limited set
of
A triumphant return to this thread... so after noodling through (with all
your assistance) my 1xN thoughts I doubled down by shortening my chain on
the existing Sugino triple and continuing to ride throughout the month of
June and July. I never missed my big or small ring and was getting
Congrats Tony! Looks good too!
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Come on now, Philip... Hatred is not part of my being; only love. I just love
my triple more than your ENO, that's all :)
Peace,
Bobby
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Yes ! I love my left hand, and I love using it :) I'd rather have a 5
speed cogset and a double or triple than one of those all right hand
systems. Better chainline, no dish wheels :)
This all-rightness is right-eousness taken to the literal ! To me, it's a
way of re-acting to make
Why not a one by 5? That's what I have on my commuter / light tourer.
On Wednesday, June 18, 2014 8:03:00 PM UTC-5, Garth wrote:
Yes ! I love my left hand, and I love using it :) I'd rather have a 5
speed cogset and a double or triple than one of those all right hand
systems. Better
White Industries' ENO or VBC cranks, ENO bash guard chainring may be the
ticket. It doesn't come in 40T though.
Wish White would make the Bash Guard equipped Eno with larger rings. Guess
most demand for the White is with the pure MTB set.
TA makes a very lovely silver bash guard (need to
Chain is probably too long, but am too lazy to fix it - D'oh, thats the
sound of my hand smacking my forehead...I never adjusted my chain length
when I made the change... chain falling off = chain to loose. Thanks
Eric! I'm going to give this a try this evening. I did make it into work
with
I don't quite understand what to me seems like a growing aversion to the
front derailleur. Virtually all of my mountain biking friends (except me)
seem to be switching to 1x10, swearing it's the greatest innovation
since... well since the front derailleur (hah!). If simplicity is what you
Bobby - I'm sure it's a fad that industry has hyped just as I'm sure that
the discussion back and forth over the past couple months on this board is
what put the idea of experimenting without FD is why I tried it.
For me the attraction is simplification, elimination of something that was
seldom
It's easier to shift across your range of gears if you have only a rear
cluster and a single ring. Whether that advantage is material depends on
the individual rider. I personally like it, though I prefer drivetrains
that are single ring + granny, an oxymoron that is not as moronic as
first might
But I seem to be hearing of more people trying to get along *without* a
front derailleur as if it's like giving up gluten or dairy (simply because
they're hearing from others there may be benefit to it). Is this more
fashion than
function? Are we being lulled by the industry into swapping
One more thing that hasn't been mentioned yet: 1x drivetrains are generally
more successful with singlespeed chainrings (assuming they are still
3/32 chain width). Stock multi gear chainrings are designed to not hold
the chain very tightly to aid shifting, esp. with indexed front shifting.
I never really thought much about this, but it makes perfect sense. Good
to know... and it explains why on two separate conversions to 1xN
derailleur drivetrains using pre-indexed chainrings, I've not ever had a
single chain drop.
Anton
ridingthecatskills.com
On Monday, June 16, 2014
I see what you mean Bobby. Maybe the next one will be people celebrating:
I've managed to survive without a rear brake! Yay!
The one time I was heavily into a 1x6 drivetrain was my college commute
bike. It was the late 1980s, and I was a poor shop mechanic. I did
everything I possibly
Here's how I see it: the front derailer question is simply a specific
expression of the quest for balance between functionality and simplicity.
We've all chosen Rivendells, and at least some of us did so because of the
benefits of steel and Grant's brilliance with geometry -- aka expressions
Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 9:26 AM, Montclair BobbyB montclairbob...@gmail.com
wrote:
But I seem to be hearing of more people trying to get along *without* a
front derailleur as if it's like giving up gluten or dairy (simply because
they're hearing from others there may be benefit to it). Is this
my best bike buddy has a quad on his Fisher MB, 18T on the small ring. He
never really uses it and claims he can't quite keep his balance with it.
On Monday, June 16, 2014 12:57:57 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
This is what we all need: http://abundantadventures.com/quads.html
In an
This is what we all need: http://abundantadventures.com/quads.html
In an effort to achieve perfect simplicity -- which in my case meant
having one bike that did everything perfectly -- I installed one of these;
this back circa 1990. Neither it nor the one bike perfect for everything
worked very
Back in 1990 my sole bike was a Columbus Supergo mountain bike for which I
had 3 wheelsets: off road, road errand, and road gofast, each with
appropriate gearing and tires. I wanted to get even simpler with just one
wheelset (but mount different tires) and run a 12-19 7, which was the
preferred
Glad you remembered about your chain length Tony ! It came to me last
night that there could be no other cause than too long of chain. If you're
only using 1 ring and a proper tensioned chain, there is no need for a
chain retaining device, unless you just want to buy something you'll never
I converted my mountain bike to a 1x9 setup and really loved it, but I
occasionally dropped the chain. I tried various retention devices and
finally went to a wide-narrow chain ring like this one.
http://www.raceface.com/components/rings/rings/single-ring-narrow-wide/
It works great, and I
I thought about you and your 1x hatred when I replaced my triple with an
ENO crank!
Worked great with the 12-25, but the 11-32 with the short chain seems to
have jacked up my derailleur. Oops. I bought another 105 rd at the Riv
garage sale, and I plan to single up the bike this weekend, but
For me, it was to make the Hillborne different from my other bikes. Also,
it was what was on my Surly Cross Check when I stripped it of parts to
build up the Hillborne. For winter in Minnesota, not having a front
derailleur is an advantage. Even with full coverage fenders, that area
gets caked
Hey Tony, if you do go 1xN, and your frame has downtube shifter braze-ons
(i.e., not just a cable stop), you can consider putting the lovely Japanese
Crane brass bell on the unused stud. The one with the spring-loaded hammer
will screw on nicely and the bell will cover the ugly bare stud.
--
I can't speak for others, but I only switched to a 1x8 after I noticed I'm
entirely OK with my 3-speed Brompton for commuting purposes. I rarely spin
out my 35x11 (Cat 6 racing, yay!) and I've not met a hill I can't climb
with my 35x32, even with a sometimes heavy load (20 pounds of Lychees,
I for one do see benefits to a FD. If you are trimming the FD often, it's
either not setup correctly or the crankset is inherently wobbly, as in
imperfect laterally . I own 5 Sugino's at the moment and they are all over
in that regard.
Using 2 or more rings, you can usually get the best
Hey Garth,
Really interesting points! I do need to look on the middle ring 'T
clearance'. The frame I'm working with is the Saluki for this question
though not the XO3. I've had 4 occurrences over 2 days of the chain
coming off the 36T middle;
1. Came off entirely, onto the BB shell
2-3.
I've run 1XNs with no throwing, but on road bikes with tight clusters where
most riding is in the middle cogs.
A quick search for chain retention calls up these, among others:
http://www.ecovelo.info/category/product-reviews/page/3/ (scroll down).
Home brew:
Over the past two years have had occasional chain drop on my 1x9 Hillborne.
Usually over a hard bump. Figure with the 12-36 in back and a long cage
derailleur, it's more likely to happen. Chain is probably too long, but am
too lazy to fix it.
Eric Platt
St. Paul, MN
On Sun, Jun 15, 2014 at
Howdy,
I had a great commuter 1x8 bike that I rode for thousands and thousands of
miles without ever dropping the chain. Eventually the components wore out, I
moved out of town, and the bike resides in my parent's basement. I believe it
was 32 chainring with an 11-34. For all practical
If you're thinking of replacing the first crank, and are willing to throw
some money at it, White Industries' ENO or VBC cranks, ENO bash guard
chainring may be the ticket. It doesn't come in 40T though.
I have a 1x8 on my Surly commuter with your #2 setup. The crank is a 110/74
triple
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