[RBW] Re: Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

[dougP]

Load placement seems to be a major factor in whether a bike shimmies or 
not, and your experience with moving your position slightly is 
interesting.  I noticed I could induce shimmy at a specific speed coasting 
downhill while sitting bolt upright, and it would go away as soon as I 
leaned slightly forward.  When you think about it, the human head weighs 
roughly as much as a bicycle, and it's on a long lever arm.  Granted, our 
body is an automatic damping mechanism, but WE just may be the cause of our 
own shimmies.  

dougP

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 9:10:14 PM UTC-7, John Bokman wrote:
>
> I had frustrations with shimmy at low to moderate speed (10-15 MPH) while 
> sitting upright cruising along a flat road on my Sam. Couldn't figure it 
> out. Had the LBS check it out: wheels, frame alignment, etc. They found 
> nothing. Tightened the headset to offer more friction and that didn't help. 
> What did help was sliding my saddle just a fraction forward toward the 
> bottom bracket. Just a smidge. I had the saddle all the way back on the 
> rails (a Berthoud saddle, don't know how long the rails are offhand). Just 
>  a nudge forward did the trick.
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 3:34:23 PM UTC-7, Tony McG wrote:
>>
>> This bike has descended hills on SE Minnesota and NE Iowa gravel roads at 
>> over 40 mph with no problems, but I haven't had a chance to try those hills 
>> since the spacer was put in last Winter. It is the low speed without hands 
>> wobble that Bill describes that is bothering me. Since the needle bearing 
>> headset appears to be more of a band aide than a cure, I am going to hold 
>> off throwing parts at the bike until I try changing tire pressures or even 
>> swap out the Cazaderos for  a set of Schwalbe Dureme that I have laying 
>> around. Thanks again everyone!
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Joe Bernard]

It's a basic parts build, too: 9-speed LX derailers and RapidFire shifters on a 
flat bar, generic Kalloy-looking post, Sugino cranks. That bike is way 
overpriced, especially without the beautiful stock Atlantis color. 

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Ray Varella]

The Atlantis is a great bike but it was developed about 17 or 18 years ago. 
Perhaps it has seen some tweaks and improvements over the years. 
In the past 17 years Grant and the other employees and close friends have 
logged thousands of hours riding the hills and the actual Mountain. 
I grew up at the base of that mountain and rode it a lot, still do once in a 
while. 
That area is the test bed for these bicycles and everything learned by riding 
that area goes into the design of Rivendell's bikes. 
You can be certain that all those years of research have resulted in some of 
the best riding bikes Rivendell has ever designed. 
The new bikes cost less because of where they are built, I doubt there are any 
compromises. 

I'm certain that a new Riv custom will be exquisite in its execution and 
attention to detail and that is worth a lot in and of itself. 

However, for a fraction of that cost you can get a frame that is very well made 
and will ride great on trails. 

My custom Allrounder was the best handling bike on twisty mountain descents 
that I have ever ridden and I've owned dozens of really nice bikes. 

I have no doubt the Appaloosa is an evolution of that bike. 

Ray

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[dougP]

Wow!  Granted it's a retail shop (presumably with rent, utilities, 
employees, etc.) but in our little corner of the world a used Atlantis 
complete is +/- $1,500ish, depending on build & beausage.  Maybe it's just 
a super lightly used frame or one that had never been built and they came 
into it, and had the right parts to build it up.  Another grand & Rivendell 
will build you a brand new on with all new stuff.  Their price is kinda in 
no-man's land between new & used.  

Regarding the color:  I'd forgotten they'll do paint for an upcharge.  
Agree that color looks like one I've seen on customs.

dougP

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 8:41:56 PM UTC-7, Kellie wrote:
>
> Hi Doug: $2700. I think they got the frame and built it up at their shop. 
> I’m waiting for a list of components, age, and condition of the frame. 
> They”d have to come *way* down for me to buy it. 
>
> On Aug 23, 2016, at 8:36 PM, dougP  
> wrote:
>
> Kellie:
>
> It looks darker than mine BUT Rivendell has used several slightly 
> different versions of the paint.  IIRC it was just normal variation & 
> nothing intentional.  I've seen a few things in person where the color 
> looked different than the pic.
>
> You could ask them if it's a re-paint.  BTW, how much are they asking?  
> What I see has stuff blocked out, & I just gave it a quick look anyway.
>
> dougP
>
> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 8:25:38 PM UTC-7, Kellie wrote:
>>
>> You think that's NOT the regular Atlantis seafoam green? I thought it was 
>> poor lighting in the picture. I have talked with this bike store. I believe 
>> they're asking way too much for this bike, and they want to sell it as a 
>> complete only.
>>
>> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 7:40:55 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>> http://bike123.com/used_bikes/used_sbikesview.php?ID=3404
>>
>>
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[RBW] Schwalbe Big One on Appaloosa

[Ray Varella]

Is anyone running these tires on their Joe Appaloosa?

Curious to know if they fit?

Thank you,
Ray
Vallejo CA

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[RBW] Re: Covered Bridge Metric Century, Lancaster PA 8/21

[Lungimsam]

@JohnS:
I'm also here:  http://IMAGinations.zenfolio.com/p379094782/e7bb99e76

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[RBW] Re: Covered Bridge Metric Century, Lancaster PA 8/21

[Lungimsam]

@ JohnS:
I'm also 1874 on this page:  http://imaginations.zenfolio.com/p379094782

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Joe Bernard]

No, that looks like a darker metallic green I've seen on Riv Customs. Custom 
colors are an upcharge available for built-to-order production bikes, I don't 
think there's any chance that bike is the stock color. 

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[RBW] FS: shoes, speedplay frogs, clips, saddle, seatpost, tire liners, computer stuff, cleat covers, bell.

[Lungimsam]

1. Used size 44 Specialized road shoes, used, but with new inserts.- 35$
2. New in package Speedplay light action cleat covers - 8$
3. Used Velo cheapy black saddle-10$
4.a. Used black aluminum Seatpost (30.9) -15$
4.b.New Mr.Tuffy 700c ultralightweight tire liners - 10$
4.c. Used Sigma wireless computer module and magnet only (not sts)- 20$
5. Used MKS medium deep steel toe clips (one pair, used, mild scratches 
from use) - 10$
6. Bar end bell - black plastic mount and brass color dome - 10$
7.Speedplay frog pedals (one pair). spin smoothly. Young in life. 
black.chromoly. 50$
8. Sigma cycling computer bar attachment and wheel sensor - 25$

Paypal plus shipping to your zip.
Pics on request.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[drew]

The college park guy has ridiculous ideas of pricing. I've contacted him 
several times and its become clear that selling the posted bikes is just not a 
priority. 2700$ complete is not what id call a deal, but it's actually not as 
crazy as some of the prices he has quoted me. 
Early on, there was a bike I actually was willing to pay the price for but when 
I agreed to the price, he said he couldn't find the bike. I always assumed that 
it was a letting go problem. 

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[RBW] Re: FS: Windstopper tight

[Lungimsam]

Bumpin' up and trying again. Winter is coming and these are real nice! 
These are super clean and very nice quality.

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[RBW] Re: Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

[John Bokman]

I had frustrations with shimmy at low to moderate speed (10-15 MPH) while 
sitting upright cruising along a flat road on my Sam. Couldn't figure it 
out. Had the LBS check it out: wheels, frame alignment, etc. They found 
nothing. Tightened the headset to offer more friction and that didn't help. 
What did help was sliding my saddle just a fraction forward toward the 
bottom bracket. Just a smidge. I had the saddle all the way back on the 
rails (a Berthoud saddle, don't know how long the rails are offhand). Just 
 a nudge forward did the trick.



On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 3:34:23 PM UTC-7, Tony McG wrote:
>
> This bike has descended hills on SE Minnesota and NE Iowa gravel roads at 
> over 40 mph with no problems, but I haven't had a chance to try those hills 
> since the spacer was put in last Winter. It is the low speed without hands 
> wobble that Bill describes that is bothering me. Since the needle bearing 
> headset appears to be more of a band aide than a cure, I am going to hold 
> off throwing parts at the bike until I try changing tire pressures or even 
> swap out the Cazaderos for  a set of Schwalbe Dureme that I have laying 
> around. Thanks again everyone!
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Kellie Stapleton]

Hi Doug: $2700. I think they got the frame and built it up at their shop. I’m 
waiting for a list of components, age, and condition of the frame. They”d have 
to come way down for me to buy it. 
> On Aug 23, 2016, at 8:36 PM, dougP  wrote:
> 
> Kellie:
> 
> It looks darker than mine BUT Rivendell has used several slightly different 
> versions of the paint.  IIRC it was just normal variation & nothing 
> intentional.  I've seen a few things in person where the color looked 
> different than the pic.
> 
> You could ask them if it's a re-paint.  BTW, how much are they asking?  What 
> I see has stuff blocked out, & I just gave it a quick look anyway.
> 
> dougP
> 
> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 8:25:38 PM UTC-7, Kellie wrote:
> You think that's NOT the regular Atlantis seafoam green? I thought it was 
> poor lighting in the picture. I have talked with this bike store. I believe 
> they're asking way too much for this bike, and they want to sell it as a 
> complete only.
> 
> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 7:40:55 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
> http://bike123.com/used_bikes/used_sbikesview.php?ID=3404 
> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[dougP]

Kellie:

It looks darker than mine BUT Rivendell has used several slightly different 
versions of the paint.  IIRC it was just normal variation & nothing 
intentional.  I've seen a few things in person where the color looked 
different than the pic.

You could ask them if it's a re-paint.  BTW, how much are they asking?  
What I see has stuff blocked out, & I just gave it a quick look anyway.

dougP

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 8:25:38 PM UTC-7, Kellie wrote:
>
> You think that's NOT the regular Atlantis seafoam green? I thought it was 
> poor lighting in the picture. I have talked with this bike store. I believe 
> they're asking way too much for this bike, and they want to sell it as a 
> complete only.
>
> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 7:40:55 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> http://bike123.com/used_bikes/used_sbikesview.php?ID=3404
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Kellie]

You think that's NOT the regular Atlantis seafoam green? I thought it was 
poor lighting in the picture. I have talked with this bike store. I believe 
they're asking way too much for this bike, and they want to sell it as a 
complete only.

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 7:40:55 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> http://bike123.com/used_bikes/used_sbikesview.php?ID=3404

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[RBW] FS: 1994 MB-1 49cm

[Manuel Acosta]

Pre-garage sale purging.

Would love to sell it local but am willing to ship. 


https://www.flickr.com/photos/mannyacosta/albums/72157671659189260

$500

Manny

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Joe Bernard]

http://bike123.com/used_bikes/used_sbikesview.php?ID=3404

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[RBW] FS: 57cm Rivendell Romulus complete

[Esteban]

The Rivendell Ebisu

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Kellie]

What green one?

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 7:13:41 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Kellie, did you pass on that green one? I was curious if you were going to 
> be happy with that color.

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Joe Bernard]

Kellie, did you pass on that green one? I was curious if you were going to be 
happy with that color.

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Kellie]

and.. I'm still without an Atlantis, so spread the word.   BTW, I 
talked with Rivendell today, the wait for an Atlantis is 2-3 months. I'm 
holding my breathe for a used one!

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 7:00:28 PM UTC-7, Kellie wrote:
>
> I don't feel like the thread is hijacked. I enjoy hearing everyone's 
> ideas/opinions about a topic we all obviously love. "Better" is 
> qualitative, as is our experience on the bike. The whole thread has helped 
> me identify my own beliefs about the subject, and I thank you all. I hope 
> there's more to say from everyone and new contributors too. 
>
> On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 9:57:50 AM UTC-7, Kellie wrote:
>>
>> Just wondering what you guys think?  I really want an Atlantis but a new 
>> one is out of my budget.  Intended use is mostly off road like fire trails, 
>> cross country riding; NOT crazy downhill, rock gardens etc.  Since the 
>> Appaloosa is supposed to be somewhere between the Hillborne and the Hunq, 
>> I'm wondering if an Appaloosa would be an appropriate  substitute?
>>
>>  Big price difference between the two. I'm sure there is a tubing 
>> difference. But the Appaloosa has the Hunq fork so that's plenty strong. 
>> Maybe better cosmetics, detailed lugging on the Atlantis.  So you say why 
>> not get a Hunq? But if I'm going to pop for a new Hunq I might as will buy 
>> a new Atlantis. What do you think?
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Kellie]

I don't feel like the thread is hijacked. I enjoy hearing everyone's 
ideas/opinions about a topic we all obviously love. "Better" is 
qualitative, as is our experience on the bike. The whole thread has helped 
me identify my own beliefs about the subject, and I thank you all. I hope 
there's more to say from everyone and new contributors too. 

On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 9:57:50 AM UTC-7, Kellie wrote:
>
> Just wondering what you guys think?  I really want an Atlantis but a new 
> one is out of my budget.  Intended use is mostly off road like fire trails, 
> cross country riding; NOT crazy downhill, rock gardens etc.  Since the 
> Appaloosa is supposed to be somewhere between the Hillborne and the Hunq, 
> I'm wondering if an Appaloosa would be an appropriate  substitute?
>
>  Big price difference between the two. I'm sure there is a tubing 
> difference. But the Appaloosa has the Hunq fork so that's plenty strong. 
> Maybe better cosmetics, detailed lugging on the Atlantis.  So you say why 
> not get a Hunq? But if I'm going to pop for a new Hunq I might as will buy 
> a new Atlantis. What do you think?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Joe Bernard]

Yes, Christopher, and you will also usually get a "for you" qualifier from GP 
about what your "best bike" is. He knew I was pushing my finances to get my 
Appaloosa, and there's NO WAY he would have told me a more expensive model was 
my best bike. That's not who he is. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Christopher Murray]

I didn't mean to lead the discussion astray, I just wanted to share a similar 
question I had several months ago. I don't think there is any question that 
Nobilette's work is in a separate league than any production bike. I think the 
point is that the quality of the production bikes is good enough that in a 
practical(out riding) sense the difference isn't noticeable. I am neither 
informed nor knowledgable enough on lugged construction to judge when a level 
of quality has been reached above which their is no practical benefit but I 
trust that Grant is. To be fair he did say in regards to the Custom that 
"practically they won't ride better than a non- custom that fits". He did not 
say the Joe was better, though he did say it was the best bike ever. I think it 
is fair to assume that conclusion takes both quality and price into the 
equation. 

Cheers,
Chris

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Joe Bernard]

Maybe we should veer back to Kellie's questions about these two bikes. This 
thread is well and truly hijacked by us at this point. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Joe Bernard]

Well, sir, you're responding to Grant being quoted on "best Riv". As there is 
no such thing as a true custom Rivendell because they're all built to 
parameters GP prefers, I don't doubt that he may consider a production Riv just 
as good or better than a Nobilette built one. They're both his design, and he 
seems quite proud of all the folks who build them. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Steve Palincsar]

Now you are significantly narrowing the scope of "better."


On 08/23/2016 07:28 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

Nicer brazing and lugs doesn't necessarily qualify as a better bike when 
actually being ridden.



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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Joe Bernard]

If you're in RBW range there's a garage sale Saturday from 11 to 1:00. You 
could show up for that, then take a bike for a spin.

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Kellie]

Me thinks I'll go ride an Appaloosa this Sat. Maybe I'll fall in love with 
it like I did the Atlantis. I do struggle with spending that much money on 
a bike (Atlantis). That's why I began my Rivendell purchase with a 
Hillborne. Then the Hillborne went by way of my adult daughter, and I got a 
Cheviot. I would fell better thinning the herd by selling the Cheviot; 
still thinking about it.. I have the luxury of thinking as there is 
no used Atlantis available  .. yet.
On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 9:57:50 AM UTC-7, Kellie wrote:
>
> Just wondering what you guys think?  I really want an Atlantis but a new 
> one is out of my budget.  Intended use is mostly off road like fire trails, 
> cross country riding; NOT crazy downhill, rock gardens etc.  Since the 
> Appaloosa is supposed to be somewhere between the Hillborne and the Hunq, 
> I'm wondering if an Appaloosa would be an appropriate  substitute?
>
>  Big price difference between the two. I'm sure there is a tubing 
> difference. But the Appaloosa has the Hunq fork so that's plenty strong. 
> Maybe better cosmetics, detailed lugging on the Atlantis.  So you say why 
> not get a Hunq? But if I'm going to pop for a new Hunq I might as will buy 
> a new Atlantis. What do you think?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Joe Bernard]

Nicer brazing and lugs doesn't necessarily qualify as a better bike when 
actually being ridden.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Steve Palincsar]

I'm sorry, no matter how good Waterford, or Toyo or Maxway are, they 
just don't do as nice work as Nobilette.



On 08/23/2016 06:50 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:

You shouldn't doubt it. Grant doesn't design bikes based on "custom better than 
production"; he designs the bike he wants built, then finds a way to get it built 
and sold. If you wanted his idea of the perfect custom Riv, right now it would probably 
look a lot like an Appaloosa.



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[RBW] FS: 57cm Rivendell Romulus complete

[brianweee]

Hi all, selling my 57cm Rivendell Romulus for  $900 local (SF Bay area) or 
$1000 shipped.

Link with more info on the bike: http://cyclofiend.com/rbw/romulus
/romflyer/01.html 

I will be posting photos tomorrow morning when I can take photos of it. I 
think the headset could be either adjusted or may need a new headset. The 
price reflects that. 

List of components:

Nitto noodle 44cm hbar
Maroon cloth tape w/ twine finish
Nitto technomic 110 mm stem
Canecreek brake levers
Shimano/ tecktro mid reach brakes
Riv Silver down tube shifters
Tiagra front der
Dura ace rear der
Silver Sram rival crank w/ sugino 50/36 chain rings
GXP bb
Kmc chain
Shimano 9sd 11-30  cassette
EA90 wheels
Challenge strada Blanca 700x30c tires
Thompson elite seat post
Selle Italia SLR flow saddle

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Joe Bernard]

You shouldn't doubt it. Grant doesn't design bikes based on "custom better than 
production"; he designs the bike he wants built, then finds a way to get it 
built and sold. If you wanted his idea of the perfect custom Riv, right now it 
would probably look a lot like an Appaloosa. 

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[RBW] WTT: Brooks C15 Carved for C17

[Ryan Thompson]

I'm looking to trade my slightly used Brooks C15 carved for a C17.  I 
purchased this one on eBay, tried it but its just too narrow.  Would prefer 
black or slate.

Pictures, https://flic.kr/s/aHskFAgPi7

Thanks,
Ryan
Arlington, VA

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Daniel D.]

B.O.T.O.H  I've never been in the middle of a ride and thought "I should've 
bought that bike I was day dreaming about instead of this nice one that 
fits my budget more.  Then I'd really be having fun" :p

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 3:57:39 AM UTC-7, Garth wrote:
>
>
> Kellie,  But but but  but so what ?   Get what you want as 
> otherwise you'll buy something you do not, and end up selling it later 
> after you paid even more for your Atlantis as you had to buy 2 frames to 
> get the one you wanted.
>
>
>
> On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 12:57:50 PM UTC-4, Kellie wrote:
>>
>>   
>> *I really want an Atlantis *
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

['Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch]

This bike has descended hills on SE Minnesota and NE Iowa gravel roads at 
over 40 mph with no problems, but I haven't had a chance to try those hills 
since the spacer was put in last Winter. It is the low speed without hands 
wobble that Bill describes that is bothering me. Since the needle bearing 
headset appears to be more of a band aide than a cure, I am going to hold 
off throwing parts at the bike until I try changing tire pressures or even 
swap out the Cazaderos for  a set of Schwalbe Dureme that I have laying 
around. Thanks again everyone!

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Garth]

Ahahaha, sure !  "Best" for who, Riv or the customer ?  For Riv great if it 
sells(regardless of the buyer name), for the consumer great if it meets all 
you criteria(regardless of the make, model or manufacturer name), including 
tires,frame fit, position, etc. If not, not so great !



On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 12:57:50 PM UTC-4, Kellie wrote:
>
> Just wondering what you guys think?  I really want an Atlantis but a new 
> one is out of my budget.  Intended use is mostly off road like fire trails, 
> cross country riding; NOT crazy downhill, rock gardens etc.  Since the 
> Appaloosa is supposed to be somewhere between the Hillborne and the Hunq, 
> I'm wondering if an Appaloosa would be an appropriate  substitute?
>
>  Big price difference between the two. I'm sure there is a tubing 
> difference. But the Appaloosa has the Hunq fork so that's plenty strong. 
> Maybe better cosmetics, detailed lugging on the Atlantis.  So you say why 
> not get a Hunq? But if I'm going to pop for a new Hunq I might as will buy 
> a new Atlantis. What do you think?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Building bicycles in the US

[Steve Palincsar]

Yes, the guy who builds them is one of the world's best.  He also builds 
the Rene Herse customs.



On 08/23/2016 05:54 PM, Ryan Fleming wrote:

yes you do indeed...why I go for riv customs

On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 5:50:42 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:



On 08/21/2016 04:24 PM, Comotion001 wrote:
> Great article, thanks for sharing. It would be wonderful if the US
> became competitive in manufacturing bicycles.

Well, we do have among the world's best custom builders...



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Re: [RBW] Re: Building bicycles in the US

[Ryan Fleming]

yes you do indeed...why I go for riv customs

On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 5:50:42 PM UTC-5, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
>
>
> On 08/21/2016 04:24 PM, Comotion001 wrote: 
> > Great article, thanks for sharing. It would be wonderful if the US 
> > became competitive in manufacturing bicycles. 
>
> Well, we do have among the world's best custom builders... 
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Kellie]

I'm assuming the horse has the initials GP?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Steve Palincsar]

Better even than a Rivendell Custom?  I kind of doubt that...


On 08/23/2016 05:04 PM, Christopher Murray wrote:

Hello,

I was in the market for a new Rivendell and asked the person some would argue is the most 
qualified to answer which to get- Joe, Atlantis, or Custom. The response? "The Joe 
is the best bike ever."

That's pretty much straight from the horse's mouth.

Cheers,
Chris



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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Christopher Murray]

Hello,

I was in the market for a new Rivendell and asked the person some would argue 
is the most qualified to answer which to get- Joe, Atlantis, or Custom. The 
response? "The Joe is the best bike ever." 

That's pretty much straight from the horse's mouth.

Cheers, 
Chris

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Re: [RBW] Re: Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

[Steve Palincsar]

Be happy.  The "hands on the bars at 20+" version is about the most 
terrifying thing you can experience.  Car crash - not even close, 
because you're too busy to feel any emotion.  Bike crash - over in an 
instant, much too fast to feel any emotion.  Being shot at - not even 
close, it's mostly a "WFT???" of puzzlement (at least, it was for me, in 
RVN).  But with speed wobble you feel it - your emotions wash over you - 
you can see your life flashing before your eyes.



On 08/23/2016 03:48 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:

Steve pointed out:  "some
will call "shimmy" (and that in some cases, others will call "speed
wobble"

That is an important distinction.  I've never experienced the "hands 
on the bars" version and I've never experienced the "ultra-high speed 
wobble" variant where you have to be going 40mph to have it happen. 
 I've only experienced the no hands riding variant.


On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 12:33:41 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:

There are many different things that can cause a vibration that some
will call "shimmy" (and that in some cases, others will call "speed
wobble").  Some of them are various kinds of rider behavior, that
can't
properly be blamed on the bike at all.  Cases in point: shivering.
Holding on to the bars too tight.  I even recall one case (on a
mailing
list) of a guy who would smack the top tube to initiate a
vibration and
then complain if the bike shimmied.


On 08/23/2016 02:51 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
> Unfortunately, nobody knows what causes shimmy.  What I mean by
that,
> is that there is not a human being on earth that look at your
bike and
> say "your bike shimmies and here's why".  If we took 9 bikes that
> don't shimmy and 1 that does and put them in a lineup, there is no
> human that can look them over and pick out the shimmying bike.
 If we
> took a non-shimmying bike to the workshop there is no mechanic that
> can do work on it to cause it to shimmy.
>
> What we do know is that shimmy is a resonant oscillation, and
> everybody who knows anything about resonsance knows that if it is
> resonating, then everything that is important is just right in that
> oscillating mechanical system.  To stop it, you change something
that
> is important.  How do you know what's important?  Take a guess and
> start changing things.  If it helped, it was important.  If it
> doesn't, either it wasn't important or you didn't change it enough.
>
> A needlebearing headset has proven to be effective because it adds
> damping to the oscillating mechanical system.  It's still
resonating,
> but the amplitude gets scrubbed off and the self-amplifying part of
> the resonance fades away.  (for electronics geeks, damping
reduces the
> Q of the system).  The damping from a needlebearing headset is from
> friction.  A needlebearing headset does not turn as freely.
>
> Weight distribution on the bike can be quite important, and is the
> only thing you can easily make major changes to.  Some people guess
> that tire width and tire pressure can effect shimmy.  Some
speculate
> that frame stiffness and steering geometry influence whether or
not a
> bike will shimmy, but you are stuck with those things.

Well said, Bill.

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[RBW] FT: my 64 Quickbeam for your 62 Quickbeam

[Michael Williams]

Hey group,  just wondering if anyone has a 62QB that feels a little small and 
might be intterested in giving a 64QB a shot.   Mine is orange if that matters. 
  Just PM if theres any interest.   Thanks!   -Mike

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Re: [RBW] Re: Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

[Bill Lindsay]

Steve pointed out:  "some 
will call "shimmy" (and that in some cases, others will call "speed 
wobble"

That is an important distinction.  I've never experienced the "hands on the 
bars" version and I've never experienced the "ultra-high speed wobble" 
variant where you have to be going 40mph to have it happen.  I've only 
experienced the no hands riding variant. 

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 12:33:41 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> There are many different things that can cause a vibration that some 
> will call "shimmy" (and that in some cases, others will call "speed 
> wobble").  Some of them are various kinds of rider behavior, that can't 
> properly be blamed on the bike at all.  Cases in point: shivering.   
> Holding on to the bars too tight.  I even recall one case (on a mailing 
> list) of a guy who would smack the top tube to initiate a vibration and 
> then complain if the bike shimmied. 
>
>
> On 08/23/2016 02:51 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote: 
> > Unfortunately, nobody knows what causes shimmy.  What I mean by that, 
> > is that there is not a human being on earth that look at your bike and 
> > say "your bike shimmies and here's why".  If we took 9 bikes that 
> > don't shimmy and 1 that does and put them in a lineup, there is no 
> > human that can look them over and pick out the shimmying bike.  If we 
> > took a non-shimmying bike to the workshop there is no mechanic that 
> > can do work on it to cause it to shimmy. 
> > 
> > What we do know is that shimmy is a resonant oscillation, and 
> > everybody who knows anything about resonsance knows that if it is 
> > resonating, then everything that is important is just right in that 
> > oscillating mechanical system.  To stop it, you change something that 
> > is important.  How do you know what's important?  Take a guess and 
> > start changing things.  If it helped, it was important.  If it 
> > doesn't, either it wasn't important or you didn't change it enough. 
> > 
> > A needlebearing headset has proven to be effective because it adds 
> > damping to the oscillating mechanical system.  It's still resonating, 
> > but the amplitude gets scrubbed off and the self-amplifying part of 
> > the resonance fades away.  (for electronics geeks, damping reduces the 
> > Q of the system).  The damping from a needlebearing headset is from 
> > friction.  A needlebearing headset does not turn as freely. 
> > 
> > Weight distribution on the bike can be quite important, and is the 
> > only thing you can easily make major changes to.  Some people guess 
> > that tire width and tire pressure can effect shimmy.  Some speculate 
> > that frame stiffness and steering geometry influence whether or not a 
> > bike will shimmy, but you are stuck with those things. 
>
> Well said, Bill. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Wobble in my rear hub

[Ryan Fleming]

good...glad that turned out to be economical...those XT hubs are pretty 
darn rugged 

On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 3:19:35 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Hub update: Just needed an overhaul. 9 bearings were rusted and replaced. 
> $16 all said and done, though I can't pick it up on the Quickbeam and my 
> wife isn't going up there till Monday or Tuesday, so I'll be Quickbeaming 
> it for the weekend (again, a harsh, harsh punishment. Grin).
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 7:35:21 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> There is a wobble in my rear hub (original to my Hunqapillar, Spring 
>> 2012). I discovered it while inflating my rear tire for a fast curvy 
>> descent on pavement on today’s ride. Called Rivendell (once I got 
>> reception) and they said I should be fine riding it home (still with lots 
>> of fast descent to go).
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: DIY crate for the Clem

[LeahFoy]

Oh, you won't be hearing from him. He likes to read about himself over my 
shoulder, but he would never admit that he's a Rivendell convert. He still 
believes he could go back to his Target bike and it would be no big deal. He 
will ride to the park and in our neighborhood, but there is no epic bike 
adventure in his future plans. He does it for his family, folks. And for the 
little bit of attention he gets when I write goofy stories about him on the 
Internet and everyone says,  "Oh, wow, now that crate really is something!"

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Re: [RBW] Re: Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

[Steve Palincsar]

Certainly cheap enough to try.  Right there on a par with messing around 
with the bags and the load.  When you start changing things like bars 
and stems to vary rider weight distribution it starts to get more 
expensive.  (I mention those because in 1972, my P15 Paramount exhibited 
a truly terrifying speed wobble.  Sometime between then and 1976, a time 
when I messed around a lot with bars and stems, trying to get a better 
fit on a bike that was an inch and a half too small for me, I changed 
/something/ -- never did find out what -- that made the speed wobble 
stop happening. And during that time period, the only other components I 
changed were front and rear derailleurs, and nobody's ever suggested 
they play a role in speed wobble.



On 08/23/2016 03:28 PM, 'Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
This is a 61 cm Atlantis. The tire pressure looks like a good place to 
start experimenting. I have been running the Cazadero at about 30-35 
psi on the front because of our chunky gravel roads. The seatbag and 
contents probably weigh less than a pound, but I may try to see how a 
handlebar bag affects the shimmy. Thanks for your replies!


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Re: [RBW] Re: Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

[Steve Palincsar]

There are many different things that can cause a vibration that some 
will call "shimmy" (and that in some cases, others will call "speed 
wobble").  Some of them are various kinds of rider behavior, that can't 
properly be blamed on the bike at all.  Cases in point: shivering.  
Holding on to the bars too tight.  I even recall one case (on a mailing 
list) of a guy who would smack the top tube to initiate a vibration and 
then complain if the bike shimmied.



On 08/23/2016 02:51 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:
Unfortunately, nobody knows what causes shimmy.  What I mean by that, 
is that there is not a human being on earth that look at your bike and 
say "your bike shimmies and here's why".  If we took 9 bikes that 
don't shimmy and 1 that does and put them in a lineup, there is no 
human that can look them over and pick out the shimmying bike.  If we 
took a non-shimmying bike to the workshop there is no mechanic that 
can do work on it to cause it to shimmy.


What we do know is that shimmy is a resonant oscillation, and 
everybody who knows anything about resonsance knows that if it is 
resonating, then everything that is important is just right in that 
oscillating mechanical system.  To stop it, you change something that 
is important.  How do you know what's important?  Take a guess and 
start changing things.  If it helped, it was important.  If it 
doesn't, either it wasn't important or you didn't change it enough.


A needlebearing headset has proven to be effective because it adds 
damping to the oscillating mechanical system.  It's still resonating, 
but the amplitude gets scrubbed off and the self-amplifying part of 
the resonance fades away.  (for electronics geeks, damping reduces the 
Q of the system).  The damping from a needlebearing headset is from 
friction.  A needlebearing headset does not turn as freely.


Weight distribution on the bike can be quite important, and is the 
only thing you can easily make major changes to.  Some people guess 
that tire width and tire pressure can effect shimmy.  Some speculate 
that frame stiffness and steering geometry influence whether or not a 
bike will shimmy, but you are stuck with those things.


Well said, Bill.

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[RBW] Re: Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

['Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch]

This is a 61 cm Atlantis. The tire pressure looks like a good place to 
start experimenting. I have been running the Cazadero at about 30-35 psi on 
the front because of our chunky gravel roads. The seatbag and contents 
probably weigh less than a pound, but I may try to see how a handlebar bag 
affects the shimmy. Thanks for your replies!

>
>

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Re: [RBW] Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

[René Sterental]

All fair and savvy points. It all depends on how far you're willing to go
to address it.

I had the same issues and ordered a low trail fork that addressed it.
Ordering a custom fork is not expensive, especially if you don't mind
having it painted a different color than your frame.

Other simpler solutions presented can he tried first.

I cannot guarantee it will fix it for you, but it did for me.

René

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016, Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Unfortunately, nobody knows what causes shimmy.  What I mean by that, is
> that there is not a human being on earth that look at your bike and say
> "your bike shimmies and here's why".  If we took 9 bikes that don't shimmy
> and 1 that does and put them in a lineup, there is no human that can look
> them over and pick out the shimmying bike.  If we took a non-shimmying bike
> to the workshop there is no mechanic that can do work on it to cause it to
> shimmy.
>
> What we do know is that shimmy is a resonant oscillation, and everybody
> who knows anything about resonsance knows that if it is resonating, then
> everything that is important is just right in that oscillating mechanical
> system.  To stop it, you change something that is important.  How do you
> know what's important?  Take a guess and start changing things.  If it
> helped, it was important.  If it doesn't, either it wasn't important or you
> didn't change it enough.
>
> A needlebearing headset has proven to be effective because it adds damping
> to the oscillating mechanical system.  It's still resonating, but the
> amplitude gets scrubbed off and the self-amplifying part of the resonance
> fades away.  (for electronics geeks, damping reduces the Q of the system).
> The damping from a needlebearing headset is from friction.  A needlebearing
> headset does not turn as freely.
>
> Weight distribution on the bike can be quite important, and is the only
> thing you can easily make major changes to.  Some people guess that tire
> width and tire pressure can effect shimmy.  Some speculate that frame
> stiffness and steering geometry influence whether or not a bike will
> shimmy, but you are stuck with those things.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 9:02:58 AM UTC-7, Tony McG wrote:
>>
>> From the beginning: The original owner purchased it as a frameset in '99
>> because at the time, the future of the Atlantis was questionable. He built
>> the bike and never rode it because he found a Waterford that he liked
>> better. I bought it barely used a few years ago and have put a few thousand
>> miles (mostly gravel) on it. The headset would never stay tight no matter
>> how hard I dared wrench on the locknut. I took it to a LBS and they removed
>> the headset and machined the frame so that the headset would fit better. I
>> rode it for a year, and I still had problems with it loosening. I then took
>> it to another LBS and they installed a spacer (seems like the headset might
>> have bottomed out on the threads???). I now have a tight headset, but
>> I also have a shimmy when I let go of the handlebars. I used to be able
>> to ride this bike without hands at any speed, but now it wobbles, even at
>> 10 mph. I don't have any load on the bike except a small seatbag for
>> tubes/tools, and the tires are the same Soma Cazadero from last year.
>>
>> Any suggestions on what might be causing the shimmy or how to fix it?
>> Shall I replace it with a NeedleBlasteur from the Riv site and see what
>> happens?
>>
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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Scott McLain]

You and me both!

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 6:49:55 AM UTC-6, Kellie wrote:
>
> I confess, when I bought my Saluki off this list, I posted for an Atlantis 
> or Saluki. The Saluki can up first and I went with it. I already had a 
> Cheviot and needed something for longish rides on the road. I love the 
> Cheviot but it is heavy and difficult to get on a bike rack. Now I really 
> love the Saluki for my long rides. I've got it dialed in and it's super 
> comfy. But in the back of my mind I've *always* wanted that Atlantis. So 
> here I am again. Though I believe the Appaloosa would be an excellent 
> choice, and the butternut is beautiful, I think the only reason I would 
> consider another bike other than the Atlantis is money. And though money is 
> an important factor, I don't know it's the most important factor. 
> So I'm considering selling the Cheviot and *crossing my fingers a 
> used frame will become available.*
>
> On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 9:57:50 AM UTC-7, Kellie wrote:
>>
>> Just wondering what you guys think?  I really want an Atlantis but a new 
>> one is out of my budget.  Intended use is mostly off road like fire trails, 
>> cross country riding; NOT crazy downhill, rock gardens etc.  Since the 
>> Appaloosa is supposed to be somewhere between the Hillborne and the Hunq, 
>> I'm wondering if an Appaloosa would be an appropriate  substitute?
>>
>>  Big price difference between the two. I'm sure there is a tubing 
>> difference. But the Appaloosa has the Hunq fork so that's plenty strong. 
>> Maybe better cosmetics, detailed lugging on the Atlantis.  So you say why 
>> not get a Hunq? But if I'm going to pop for a new Hunq I might as will buy 
>> a new Atlantis. What do you think?
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

[Bill Lindsay]

Unfortunately, nobody knows what causes shimmy.  What I mean by that, is 
that there is not a human being on earth that look at your bike and say 
"your bike shimmies and here's why".  If we took 9 bikes that don't shimmy 
and 1 that does and put them in a lineup, there is no human that can look 
them over and pick out the shimmying bike.  If we took a non-shimmying bike 
to the workshop there is no mechanic that can do work on it to cause it to 
shimmy.  

What we do know is that shimmy is a resonant oscillation, and everybody who 
knows anything about resonsance knows that if it is resonating, then 
everything that is important is just right in that oscillating mechanical 
system.  To stop it, you change something that is important.  How do you 
know what's important?  Take a guess and start changing things.  If it 
helped, it was important.  If it doesn't, either it wasn't important or you 
didn't change it enough.  

A needlebearing headset has proven to be effective because it adds damping 
to the oscillating mechanical system.  It's still resonating, but the 
amplitude gets scrubbed off and the self-amplifying part of the resonance 
fades away.  (for electronics geeks, damping reduces the Q of the system). 
 The damping from a needlebearing headset is from friction.  A 
needlebearing headset does not turn as freely.  

Weight distribution on the bike can be quite important, and is the only 
thing you can easily make major changes to.  Some people guess that tire 
width and tire pressure can effect shimmy.  Some speculate that frame 
stiffness and steering geometry influence whether or not a bike will 
shimmy, but you are stuck with those things.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA 

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 9:02:58 AM UTC-7, Tony McG wrote:
>
> From the beginning: The original owner purchased it as a frameset in '99 
> because at the time, the future of the Atlantis was questionable. He built 
> the bike and never rode it because he found a Waterford that he liked 
> better. I bought it barely used a few years ago and have put a few thousand 
> miles (mostly gravel) on it. The headset would never stay tight no matter 
> how hard I dared wrench on the locknut. I took it to a LBS and they removed 
> the headset and machined the frame so that the headset would fit better. I 
> rode it for a year, and I still had problems with it loosening. I then took 
> it to another LBS and they installed a spacer (seems like the headset might 
> have bottomed out on the threads???). I now have a tight headset, but 
> I also have a shimmy when I let go of the handlebars. I used to be able 
> to ride this bike without hands at any speed, but now it wobbles, even at 
> 10 mph. I don't have any load on the bike except a small seatbag for 
> tubes/tools, and the tires are the same Soma Cazadero from last year.
>
> Any suggestions on what might be causing the shimmy or how to fix it? 
> Shall I replace it with a NeedleBlasteur from the Riv site and see what 
> happens?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

[Deacon Patrick]

To second this, my Hunq shimmies with too much up front (making it 
unridable on pavement, let alone single track), but handles more total 
weight amazingly well with all but a wee bit in the rear and the rest in 
the front. Others love their Hunqapillars loaded in the front, with just a 
wee bit in the back, so rider differences seem to play a part as well. Play 
with the load, how secure it is, riding technique (which necessarily 
changes with more weight), load balance front/rear and side to side, how 
far up and/or out the load is (especially on the front. Tighter and lower 
and centered/balanced side to side is more solid).

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 12:13:55 PM UTC-6, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> So it's not the bike, it's how the load was distributed.
>
> On 08/23/2016 01:30 PM, Sky Coulter wrote:
>
> Tony, 
>
> Don't know how helpful this might be but I was experiencing shimmy on my 
> 60cm saluki, I tried a number of things to fix it, including a 
> needlebearing headset (which helped i think). But the biggest change was 
> when i swapped out the cockpit from a 90mm stem to a 100mm stem. Shifting a 
> bit of my weight (240lbs) forward over the front wheel reduced the hands on 
> shimmy more than anything else.  With a load in the front basket and hands 
> off, there is still a bit of wagging from the handlebars, but more like the 
> wagging of a dog getting petted, than oone being taken outside for a walk.
>
> Sky in New west 
>
> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 9:46:05 AM UTC-7, Trenker wrote: 
>>
>>
>>
>> Last summer I was on a short bike trip thinking to myself, during that 
>> time on the bike when you have lots of time to think, that I have never 
>> been bothered by shimmy on any bike that I could remember. The same morning 
>> I kept hearing a knocking sound while pedaling or gliding at low speed, 
>> which went away when I put both hands lightly on the handlebar. I gradually 
>> figured out it was the fender knocking against the tire, and I realized 
>> that I had always experienced shimmy, but never realized it or been 
>> bothered much by it. This is on a 66 cm Toyo Atlantis with rear panniers 
>> and a front basket. The same morning I was having the prolonged impression 
>> of how much I liked this bike for touring. 
>>
>>
>> During that trip I had enough time to experiment and ponder the shimmy, 
>> and I realized that it only happened at low speed, and that at higher 
>> speeds, eg. descending on asphalt or gravel, the bike was rock solid. Which 
>> is a nice concession. 
>>
>>
>> I think shimmy can be finely tuned in or out of a bike. Going to a 
>> slightly narrower tire can improve things, as can pumping up the front tire 
>> to the same adequate pressure as the back; it isn’t written in stone that 
>> the front tire has to be at a lower pressure. 
>>
>>
>> Even the road surface can affect or initiate shimmy: it looks flat but 
>> there are subtle undulations caused by car tires; they are a lot more 
>> obvious on gravel roads, before or after intersections. 
>>
>>
>> If you are tweaking your setup to reduce shimmy, you can test it at home 
>> by standing beside the bike and rapping the side of the handlebar with the 
>> heel of your hand: you will be able to see if the vibrations focus on the 
>> front end ( shimmy ) or condense around the back end of the bike ( ideal, 
>> which I now have with a small basket on front and saddlebag tied to a small 
>> home-made rear rack.) Tomorrow morning I head out on another short trip and 
>> I’ll have plenty of time to see how I like this setup. 
>>
>>
>> I suspect that tall riders on big bikes probably always experience a 
>> certain amount of shimmy, as well as a certain amount of frame flex, but we 
>> are used to it and don’t know any different. I wonder what size your 
>> Atlantis is? 
>>
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[RBW] Re: DIY crate for the Clem

[Jon Dukeman,central Colorado]

Leah,
This has all been fun and I think he has now come full circle with his 
bike. 
My question
When will we be seeing a post from Mrs Leah's husband?
There has to be another side of this story.:)
Jon



>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Covered Bridge Metric Century, Lancaster PA 8/21

[Steve Palincsar]

On 08/23/2016 09:04 AM, JohnS wrote:
I enjoyed the ride, despite the light rain and head winds. Beautiful 
country side, most roads were quite, rolling terrain, all good! I 
would definitely do it again.
Bob and I were having a good time talking for the first half of the 
ride, but riding a fixed gear is out of sync with the rest of the 
biking world. You have to be more aggressive on the up hills and spin 
out on the down hills. I scanned through some of the photos, but 
couldn't find one of me. You would think an orange bicycle with a 
black Wald basket and olive Shop Shack would stand out more. I'll look 
some more later.


I did see a fixed gear some time after lunch, but as I recall it was a 
black bike and no Wald basket, so I don't think it was you.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

[Steve Palincsar]

So it's not the bike, it's how the load was distributed.


On 08/23/2016 01:30 PM, Sky Coulter wrote:

Tony,

Don't know how helpful this might be but I was experiencing shimmy on 
my 60cm saluki, I tried a number of things to fix it, including a 
needlebearing headset (which helped i think). But the biggest change 
was when i swapped out the cockpit from a 90mm stem to a 100mm stem. 
Shifting a bit of my weight (240lbs) forward over the front wheel 
reduced the hands on shimmy more than anything else.  With a load in 
the front basket and hands off, there is still a bit of wagging from 
the handlebars, but more like the wagging of a dog getting petted, 
than oone being taken outside for a walk.


Sky in New west

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 9:46:05 AM UTC-7, Trenker wrote:



Last summer I was on a short bike trip thinking to myself, during
that time on the bike when you have lots of time to think, that I
have never been bothered by shimmy on any bike that I could
remember. The same morning I kept hearing a knocking sound while
pedaling or gliding at low speed, which went away when I put both
hands lightly on the handlebar. I gradually figured out it was the
fender knocking against the tire, and I realized that I had always
experienced shimmy, but never realized it or been bothered much by
it. This is on a 66 cm Toyo Atlantis with rear panniers and a
front basket. The same morning I was having the prolonged
impression of how much I liked this bike for touring.


During that trip I had enough time to experiment and ponder the
shimmy, and I realized that it only happened at low speed, and
that at higher speeds, eg. descending on asphalt or gravel, the
bike was rock solid. Which is a nice concession.


I think shimmy can be finely tuned in or out of a bike. Going to a
slightly narrower tire can improve things, as can pumping up the
front tire to the same adequate pressure as the back; it isn’t
written in stone that the front tire has to be at a lower pressure.


Even the road surface can affect or initiate shimmy: it looks flat
but there are subtle undulations caused by car tires; they are a
lot more obvious on gravel roads, before or after intersections.


If you are tweaking your setup to reduce shimmy, you can test it
at home by standing beside the bike and rapping the side of the
handlebar with the heel of your hand: you will be able to see if
the vibrations focus on the front end ( shimmy ) or condense
around the back end of the bike ( ideal, which I now have with a
small basket on front and saddlebag tied to a small home-made rear
rack.) Tomorrow morning I head out on another short trip and I’ll
have plenty of time to see how I like this setup.


I suspect that tall riders on big bikes probably always experience
a certain amount of shimmy, as well as a certain amount of frame
flex, but we are used to it and don’t know any different. I wonder
what size your Atlantis is?


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Re: [RBW] The New England Elements, a Homer and an Outdoor Bike Rack

[Ryan Fleming]

Great, Jay...that sounds perfect. 

On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 11:08:49 AM UTC-5, Call Me Jay wrote:
>
> Thanks for the insight.  My Homer is safely parked inside my new 
> office---no one has raised any concerns so far.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: DIY crate for the Clem

[Ryan Fleming]

I think your husband did a really good job on his crate and he and that 
bike are stylinregards...plus I think your posts are great.  They make 
me smile !I hope you guys have many happy rides together as a family!

Best regardsRyan

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 12:22:28 AM UTC-5, LeahFoy wrote:
>
> Thanks, Ryan. Such sweet words. Are you really getting a husband-wife HHH? 
> Jealous! You'll make us a thread when you've got it, right?

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[RBW] Re: WTB: 51 Atlantis

[Kellie]

Thanks for the heads up lungisman. I'm in touch with them. 

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[RBW] Re: Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

[dougP]

Tony:

I've had a 58 cm Atlantis since '03.  With only a light load as you 
describe it never shimmied.  

My first experience with shimmy was the first time I had it loaded for a 
tour, and all of the weight was on the rear.  Others suggested getting some 
weight forward, so after that I started experimenting with loading.  
Eventually I came to the conclusion that some front bias was preferable.  

While the above doesn't seem applicable to your situation,  I suggest 
moving your rear bag load to the front.  At one point in my experiments, I 
was able to induce shimmy with only a small rear saddlebag with tools, 
tubes, etc.  A specific set of conditions was req'd as well as me sitting 
bolt upright on the bike.  Simply moving that bag (<3 lbs?) to the 
handlebars solved the problem.  Simple experiment to try.

The needle bearing headset may be beneficial but I don't recall anyone 
claiming it to be "the cure" for all shimmies.  Shimmy seems to be an 
elusive problem with lots of possible sources, so tough to ID a single 
source in a specific case.  

dougP  

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 9:02:58 AM UTC-7, Tony McG wrote:
>
> From the beginning: The original owner purchased it as a frameset in '99 
> because at the time, the future of the Atlantis was questionable. He built 
> the bike and never rode it because he found a Waterford that he liked 
> better. I bought it barely used a few years ago and have put a few thousand 
> miles (mostly gravel) on it. The headset would never stay tight no matter 
> how hard I dared wrench on the locknut. I took it to a LBS and they removed 
> the headset and machined the frame so that the headset would fit better. I 
> rode it for a year, and I still had problems with it loosening. I then took 
> it to another LBS and they installed a spacer (seems like the headset might 
> have bottomed out on the threads???). I now have a tight headset, but 
> I also have a shimmy when I let go of the handlebars. I used to be able 
> to ride this bike without hands at any speed, but now it wobbles, even at 
> 10 mph. I don't have any load on the bike except a small seatbag for 
> tubes/tools, and the tires are the same Soma Cazadero from last year.
>
> Any suggestions on what might be causing the shimmy or how to fix it? 
> Shall I replace it with a NeedleBlasteur from the Riv site and see what 
> happens?
>

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[RBW] Re: Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

[Sky Coulter]

Tony,

Don't know how helpful this might be but I was experiencing shimmy on my 
60cm saluki, I tried a number of things to fix it, including a 
needlebearing headset (which helped i think). But the biggest change was 
when i swapped out the cockpit from a 90mm stem to a 100mm stem. Shifting a 
bit of my weight (240lbs) forward over the front wheel reduced the hands on 
shimmy more than anything else.  With a load in the front basket and hands 
off, there is still a bit of wagging from the handlebars, but more like the 
wagging of a dog getting petted, than oone being taken outside for a walk.

Sky in New west 

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 9:46:05 AM UTC-7, Trenker wrote:
>
>
>
> Last summer I was on a short bike trip thinking to myself, during that 
> time on the bike when you have lots of time to think, that I have never 
> been bothered by shimmy on any bike that I could remember. The same morning 
> I kept hearing a knocking sound while pedaling or gliding at low speed, 
> which went away when I put both hands lightly on the handlebar. I gradually 
> figured out it was the fender knocking against the tire, and I realized 
> that I had always experienced shimmy, but never realized it or been 
> bothered much by it. This is on a 66 cm Toyo Atlantis with rear panniers 
> and a front basket. The same morning I was having the prolonged impression 
> of how much I liked this bike for touring. 
>
>
> During that trip I had enough time to experiment and ponder the shimmy, 
> and I realized that it only happened at low speed, and that at higher 
> speeds, eg. descending on asphalt or gravel, the bike was rock solid. Which 
> is a nice concession. 
>
>
> I think shimmy can be finely tuned in or out of a bike. Going to a 
> slightly narrower tire can improve things, as can pumping up the front tire 
> to the same adequate pressure as the back; it isn’t written in stone that 
> the front tire has to be at a lower pressure. 
>
>
> Even the road surface can affect or initiate shimmy: it looks flat but 
> there are subtle undulations caused by car tires; they are a lot more 
> obvious on gravel roads, before or after intersections. 
>
>
> If you are tweaking your setup to reduce shimmy, you can test it at home 
> by standing beside the bike and rapping the side of the handlebar with the 
> heel of your hand: you will be able to see if the vibrations focus on the 
> front end ( shimmy ) or condense around the back end of the bike ( ideal, 
> which I now have with a small basket on front and saddlebag tied to a small 
> home-made rear rack.) Tomorrow morning I head out on another short trip and 
> I’ll have plenty of time to see how I like this setup. 
>
>
> I suspect that tall riders on big bikes probably always experience a 
> certain amount of shimmy, as well as a certain amount of frame flex, but we 
> are used to it and don’t know any different. I wonder what size your 
> Atlantis is? 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Covered Bridge Metric Century, Lancaster PA 8/21

[JohnS]

Thanks for sharing, I really liked seeing all of the Amish riding bikes or 
in their buggies. 

I was scanning the pictures and I see you're smiling in picture number 2685 
in the Erb's Covered Bridge group. For those who are interested, I'm in 
picture 1782 of the Hunseeker Covered Bridge group.

JohnS


On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 12:38:13 PM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> Pics and videos. Turn the volume down.  
> https://www.flickr.com/gp/70237737@N00/Vjxj3M
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rat Trap Pass: reviews? impressions? poetic waxings?

[Jim Bronson]

Since the blurb you are commenting on is about Compass tires in
general as opposed to just RTP, let me just say that, I think they
handle just as well as anything else out there in the rain!  I've done
quite a few rainy rides on them, on warm days and cold ones.

I also get many less flats than on other light supple tires I have
tried.  The center tread is definitely thicker.

Where I would not use these tires would be any off-roading where you
might encounter sharp rocks.  The sidewall is very thin.

Jim

On Sat, Aug 20, 2016 at 11:47 AM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners
Bunch  wrote:
> I would agree with Gravel & Grind that most designers would be reluctant to
> advertise shortcomings. But I was surprised at just how contradictory this
> review was to the item description (ie, sales copy) on the Compass website.
> Your review in a nutshell: Low mileage, repeated flatting, poor wet weather
> handling, but faster. The product blurb:
>
> Compass tires are designed to offer optimum performance above all. Their
> supple casing is key to making these tires roll faster than most. It also
> absorbs vibrations and shocks better, making these tires supremely
> comfortable. The tire tread was designed to offer optimum cornering adhesion
> and precision, both in wet and dry conditions.
>
> Despite this focus on performance, Compass tires are sensible everyday
> tires. The tread is 3 mm thick in the center to last many miles, unlike
> thinner high-performance tires which are best treated as “event” tires. We
> at Compass ride our tires year-round on the road, on gravel and in the city,
> without any problems and with very, very few flats.
>
>
> Maybe there is something about the RTP that makes them different from the
> other tires in the lineup? I have heard of a few people that have reported
> lots of flats on some of the 700C, but most seem to be reporting results
> closer to the ad copy. One theory is that wider tires run with lower
> pressures are less susceptible to being pierced. I'm curious because your
> experience just seems so far from the feedback to this point. More than
> curious, since I will be running these again soon. During the initial run, I
> did not have enough mileage, nor did I ride them in rain or wet, to have an
> opinion or experience on any of the above parameters, though I liked the
> road feel.
>
>
> On Saturday, August 20, 2016 at 11:53:31 AM UTC-4, Gravel & Grind Espresso +
> Bikes wrote:
>>
>> No one is gunna claim their tires don't grip in the rain, especially if
>> they live in Seattle.  I don't think these tires have bad grip, for what
>> they are, but Paselas have way more grip, in my experience.  Paselas are
>> also slower feeling, and as the saying goes, there's no free lunch.  Gotta
>> give up something.  One just has to be aware of limitations, with any
>> equipment.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 10:10:13 PM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:
>>>
>>> Thats odd because Heine states that tge tread rubber is super grippy even
>>> in rain,iirc.
>
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[RBW] Re: Rust / Touch-up Advice

[Lungimsam]

ps- I have never done this but these are the things that come to mind. 
Don't know if Rustoleum is the best thing to use on steel.

I usually use clear nail polish on the scratches I get though.



On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 12:18:03 PM UTC-4, Eric Karnes wrote:

> Hi all-
>
>
> I wanted to get your opinion on rust / touch-up on the SimpleOne I 
> purchased a few months back. Yesterday, as I was getting ready to pull the 
> crank for some modifications, I noticed that the bottom bracket shell had 
> some significant paint loss and surface rust. It looked as though it had 
> possibly been scraped pretty badly at some point by the previous owner and 
> then been allowed to oxidize. Regardless, I removed the rust with sandpaper 
> and will finish up with some steel as soon as I can get to the hardware 
> store.
>
>
> My first question is…what does the group recommend to prevent further rust 
> in that area? I don’t really care so much about looks. It’s mostly hidden 
> from view and I think the SimpleOne (especially) looks better with the 
> marks of age. But I love this frame, ride it daily, and want to prevent any 
> more oxidation. Will basic enamel paint or nail polish hold up in an area 
> like that?
>
>
> Which brings me to my second question. I’ve also used the opportunity to 
> inspect for any further rust. I haven't pulled anything apart, but on the 
> surface everything looks pretty solid, with tone exception...the inside of 
> the steerer tube. I’m thinking I’ll just replace the actual headset (which 
> seems to have a bit rust on it as well), but what would you recommend for 
> dealing with the steerer rust?
>
>
> (Bad cell phone) photos here:
>
>
> Bottom Bracket Shell:
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/35128198@N02/29066579512/in/dateposted-public/
>
>
> Steerer:
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/35128198@N02/29138940206/in/dateposted-public/
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rust / Touch-up Advice

[Lungimsam]

Maybe it is time for a repaint? Get it done your favorite color(s) /cream 
headtube and windows? They will take care of that steerer tube rust, too, 
and you could get them to seal the steel on it with some coat of something 
while they are at it. Try Bilenky if you are on the East Coast. Everyone 
seems to refer that stuff to them out here.

If not, and you are the kind of person who likes to not cover up scratches 
with anything but clear nail polish so you can see the badges of honor, you 
could just cover the bb with a few heavy duty coats of clear nail polish 
and see how long that lasts.

Want to be more aggressive about it? Maybe a matching color spritz of 
Rustoleum exterior paint?

Or, if you have the savvy, you could primer and matching paint it as 
mentioned above.















On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 12:18:03 PM UTC-4, Eric Karnes wrote:

> Hi all-
>
>
> I wanted to get your opinion on rust / touch-up on the SimpleOne I 
> purchased a few months back. Yesterday, as I was getting ready to pull the 
> crank for some modifications, I noticed that the bottom bracket shell had 
> some significant paint loss and surface rust. It looked as though it had 
> possibly been scraped pretty badly at some point by the previous owner and 
> then been allowed to oxidize. Regardless, I removed the rust with sandpaper 
> and will finish up with some steel as soon as I can get to the hardware 
> store.
>
>
> My first question is…what does the group recommend to prevent further rust 
> in that area? I don’t really care so much about looks. It’s mostly hidden 
> from view and I think the SimpleOne (especially) looks better with the 
> marks of age. But I love this frame, ride it daily, and want to prevent any 
> more oxidation. Will basic enamel paint or nail polish hold up in an area 
> like that?
>
>
> Which brings me to my second question. I’ve also used the opportunity to 
> inspect for any further rust. I haven't pulled anything apart, but on the 
> surface everything looks pretty solid, with tone exception...the inside of 
> the steerer tube. I’m thinking I’ll just replace the actual headset (which 
> seems to have a bit rust on it as well), but what would you recommend for 
> dealing with the steerer rust?
>
>
> (Bad cell phone) photos here:
>
>
> Bottom Bracket Shell:
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/35128198@N02/29066579512/in/dateposted-public/
>
>
> Steerer:
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/35128198@N02/29138940206/in/dateposted-public/
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
> Eric
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

[Trenker]

Last summer I was on a short bike trip thinking to myself, during that time 
on the bike when you have lots of time to think, that I have never been 
bothered by shimmy on any bike that I could remember. The same morning I 
kept hearing a knocking sound while pedaling or gliding at low speed, which 
went away when I put both hands lightly on the handlebar. I gradually 
figured out it was the fender knocking against the tire, and I realized 
that I had always experienced shimmy, but never realized it or been 
bothered much by it. This is on a 66 cm Toyo Atlantis with rear panniers 
and a front basket. The same morning I was having the prolonged impression 
of how much I liked this bike for touring. 


During that trip I had enough time to experiment and ponder the shimmy, and 
I realized that it only happened at low speed, and that at higher speeds, 
eg. descending on asphalt or gravel, the bike was rock solid. Which is a 
nice concession. 


I think shimmy can be finely tuned in or out of a bike. Going to a slightly 
narrower tire can improve things, as can pumping up the front tire to the 
same adequate pressure as the back; it isn’t written in stone that the 
front tire has to be at a lower pressure. 


Even the road surface can affect or initiate shimmy: it looks flat but 
there are subtle undulations caused by car tires; they are a lot more 
obvious on gravel roads, before or after intersections. 


If you are tweaking your setup to reduce shimmy, you can test it at home by 
standing beside the bike and rapping the side of the handlebar with the 
heel of your hand: you will be able to see if the vibrations focus on the 
front end ( shimmy ) or condense around the back end of the bike ( ideal, 
which I now have with a small basket on front and saddlebag tied to a small 
home-made rear rack.) Tomorrow morning I head out on another short trip and 
I’ll have plenty of time to see how I like this setup. 


I suspect that tall riders on big bikes probably always experience a 
certain amount of shimmy, as well as a certain amount of frame flex, but we 
are used to it and don’t know any different. I wonder what size your 
Atlantis is? 

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[RBW] Re: Rust / Touch-up Advice

[drew]

id do an enamel primer on the bb shell once all the rust was removed, then 
paint to match. 

for the fork, i would remove it, flip it upside down and let it sit 24hrs 
in a bucket of metal rescue. rinse, dry, apply boeshield or framesaver. 

not that i think you need to do that. im just anal about rust. 

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[RBW] Re: Covered Bridge Metric Century, Lancaster PA 8/21

[Lungimsam]

Pics and videos. Turn the volume down. 
 https://www.flickr.com/gp/70237737@N00/Vjxj3M

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[RBW] Rust / Touch-up Advice

[Eric Karnes]

Hi all-


I wanted to get your opinion on rust / touch-up on the SimpleOne I 
purchased a few months back. Yesterday, as I was getting ready to pull the 
crank for some modifications, I noticed that the bottom bracket shell had 
some significant paint loss and surface rust. It looked as though it had 
possibly been scraped pretty badly at some point by the previous owner and 
then been allowed to oxidize. Regardless, I removed the rust with sandpaper 
and will finish up with some steel as soon as I can get to the hardware 
store.


My first question is…what does the group recommend to prevent further rust 
in that area? I don’t really care so much about looks. It’s mostly hidden 
from view and I think the SimpleOne (especially) looks better with the 
marks of age. But I love this frame, ride it daily, and want to prevent any 
more oxidation. Will basic enamel paint or nail polish hold up in an area 
like that?


Which brings me to my second question. I’ve also used the opportunity to 
inspect for any further rust. I haven't pulled anything apart, but on the 
surface everything looks pretty solid, with tone exception...the inside of 
the steerer tube. I’m thinking I’ll just replace the actual headset (which 
seems to have a bit rust on it as well), but what would you recommend for 
dealing with the steerer rust?


(Bad cell phone) photos here:


Bottom Bracket Shell:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/35128198@N02/29066579512/in/dateposted-public/


Steerer:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/35128198@N02/29138940206/in/dateposted-public/


Thanks!


Eric


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Re: [RBW] Re: Rat Trap Pass: reviews? impressions? poetic waxings?

[Bill in Roswell GA]

Thanks for sharing the link, Jan. Very informative and often entertaining 
discussion. Candid, too, but respectfully so. Nice that you're getting 
recognition for all the tire testing contributions you and crew have made 
over the years.

Quite interesting was discussion of the effect that wider tires has had on 
modern bike design. And disk brakes are allowing that envelope to expand, 
which was further discussed in a later podcast.

Good stuff!

Cheers,
Bill in Roswell, GA

On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 8:01:57 PM UTC-4, Jan Heine wrote:
>
> That is interesting stuff, but I think the idea that wider tires are a 
> disadvantage on smooth roads is a bit outdated. I wonder when this video 
> was recorded.
>
> You might also be interested in a podcast that featured Josh Poertner, 
> formerly of Zipp (now of Silca), James Huang and me, talking about the 
> latest research. I was surprised that the guys at Zipp came to the same 
> conclusions as we did at Bicycle Quarterly, only their research was top 
> secret and only available to their sponsored riders! You can listen to the 
> discussion here:
>
>
> http://cyclingtips.com/2016/08/cyclingtips-podcast-episode-9-rethinking-road-bike-tire-sizes-and-pressures/
>
> Jan Heine
> Compass Cycles
> www.compasscycle.com
>
> On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 8:31:22 AM UTC+9, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> Listen to what Keith Bontrager says about wide tires.  Not directed at 
>> you Jan.  It is at 2:35.
>>
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpxUcfZhxLk=TL7aUwq5E8PH4yMjA4MjAxNg
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 5:26 PM, Jan Heine  wrote:
>>
>>> The Rat Trap Pass use the same casings, same tread pattern, and same 
>>> tread thickness as the other tires in the Compass line. We did a lot of 
>>> testing with prototypes to make sure that you could actually use such a 
>>> supple casing on such a wide tire – nobody had ever done that before.
>>>
>>> As to tread wear, the wider the tire, the more rubber touches the road. 
>>> So the wear is spread over a larger surface, and the tire lasts longer. 
>>> It's that simple. Our tires have a somewhat thicker tread than event tires 
>>> like the Soma Grand Randonneur or the Pari-Motos. Again, we did a lot of 
>>> testing to see how thick we could make the tread rubber without slowing 
>>> down the tire significantly, so we could optimize speed and longevity.
>>>
>>> I get about 5000 miles out of a set of Babyshoe Pass tires before I 
>>> retire them. When I cut them apart to check the wear, I am always surprised 
>>> how much tread is left – I probably could have ridden them another 1-2000 
>>> miles. I haven't yet worn out a set of Rat Trap Pass, so I cannot comment 
>>> on how much longer they last.
>>>
>>> Of course, you'll find tires that last longer (harder rubber that 
>>> doesn't grip well, thicker tread that rolls slowly), but for a 
>>> high-performance tire, I am very happy with the mileages we and others get 
>>> on these tires.
>>>
>>> Jan Heine
>>> Compass Cycles
>>> www.compasscycle.com
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 21, 2016 at 1:47:26 AM UTC+9, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>>>  
>>>
 Maybe there is something about the RTP that makes them different from 
 the other tires in the lineup? 

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>>
>>

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[RBW] Toyo Atlantis Shimmy ???

['Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch]

>From the beginning: The original owner purchased it as a frameset in '99 
because at the time, the future of the Atlantis was questionable. He built 
the bike and never rode it because he found a Waterford that he liked 
better. I bought it barely used a few years ago and have put a few thousand 
miles (mostly gravel) on it. The headset would never stay tight no matter 
how hard I dared wrench on the locknut. I took it to a LBS and they removed 
the headset and machined the frame so that the headset would fit better. I 
rode it for a year, and I still had problems with it loosening. I then took 
it to another LBS and they installed a spacer (seems like the headset might 
have bottomed out on the threads???). I now have a tight headset, but 
I also have a shimmy when I let go of the handlebars. I used to be able 
to ride this bike without hands at any speed, but now it wobbles, even at 
10 mph. I don't have any load on the bike except a small seatbag for 
tubes/tools, and the tires are the same Soma Cazadero from last year.

Any suggestions on what might be causing the shimmy or how to fix it? Shall 
I replace it with a NeedleBlasteur from the Riv site and see what happens?

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[RBW] FS: Willow Chainring Tuition-Needs-to-be-paid-Sale

[David Banzer]

Doing another Willow chainring sale. I've started a new grad program - all 
proceeds pay off my tuition! Call it an investment in my education, and you 
get nice chainrings as well...

The remaining sizes I have are listed at 
http://treetop.bigcartel.com/category/willow-chainrings-c
To get the sale prices - please contact me directly and I'll send an 
invoice through Paypal.
Sale prices are:
110 bcd - 46t & larger - $15
110 bcd - 39t & smaller - $12
74 bcd - $10
130 bcd - $15
135 bcd - $15
Triplizer Rings w/ Hardware - $20

I have some ready-made bags available as well - those aren't on sale just 
yet, but shipping is a flat rate, so feel free to add one to your order.

Shipping is a flat $7 per order and will ship via USPS priority mail.
Again, contact me offlist to get the sale prices.
Thanks,
David Banzer
Chicago
treetop.bigcartel.com

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[RBW] Re: Thunder Burts are go!

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Thunder Burt!!!  I bought a set of these as an alternative to the Maxxis 
Ardents that I have currently.  The Ardents seem to be overkill 98% of the 
time for my riding...can't wait to mount the Burt.

On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 10:05:07 PM UTC-4, Tim Gavin wrote:
>
> I just finished a rambling, multi-surface ride on my '88 Schwinn KOM, shod 
> with 559 x 54 (26" x 2.1") Schwalbe Thunder Burt tires (Evo/Liteskin 
> casing).   
>
> In my experience, the TBs are a high-performance, do-almost-anything tire. 
>  They don't feel any more sluggish on the road than Schwalbe Super Motos; 
> perhaps the TBs' lighter weight counter-acts the resistance from their 
> knobbier tread.  However, the TBs are way more competent than the Motos on 
> dirt, loose gravel, and wet grass. 
>
> My route this evening included crushed lime multi-use/nature paths, with 
> plenty of erosion and soft patches to keep me on my toes. I even did a 
> couple miles of dry single track, and the TBs had excellent grip. 
>
> I also want to show off the Ruthworks frame bag I bought from listmember 
> Bill Lindsay.  The bag fits like it was custom-made for my frame--because 
> it was! My 22"ST/24"HT '88 Schwinn KOM is the same frame as the '87 
> Paramountain he had the bag made for. 
>
> I'm preparing to convert my KOM back to upright bars (Jones Cut H bars), 
> so I made sure to take a couple nice pictures of the current build. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: WTB: 51 Atlantis

[Lungimsam]

Here is a used one for sale complete from a former RBW dealer in my area. 
Mention the birthday sale if his price is too high. That is when the price is 
the year you were born. I cannot vouch for the condition of the bike. But they 
built up my Bleriot for me and were nice and did a great job. Grant knows the 
owner, too. You can yelp them for reviews.

http://bike123.com/used_bikes/used_sbikesview.php?ID=3404

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Re: [RBW] FS: Sugino Alpina 800 Compact Cranks, silver - NEW

[bo richardson]

I will take them if David s doesn't

Best wishes

Bo

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Re: [RBW] FS: Sugino Alpina 800 Compact Cranks, silver - NEW

[David Sprunger]

David H.,
Hi. I"m interested in this crankset if it is still available.
Thanks,
David S.

On Sun, Aug 21, 2016 at 3:22 PM, David Hallerman 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Rare to find nowadays, this totally new, never installed, perfect
> condition compact double Sugino Alpina 800 crankset has these features:
>
> * 170mm long
> * silver, cold-forged
> * 48/34 chainrings, ramped & pinned
> * 110BCD chainrings
> * typically takes 110mm long JIS square bottom bracket
>
> *Price = $165, plus shipping*
>
> Some pix linked below, and questions quickly answered.
>
> Dave, who says his overbuying can become your bargain
> Hudson Valley, NY
> sunwarr...@verizon.net
>
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24440195/sugino_alpina_01.jpg
>
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24440195/sugino_alpina_02.jpg
>
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24440195/sugino_alpina_03.jpg
>
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/24440195/sugino_alpina_04.jpg
>
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[RBW] Re: Covered Bridge Metric Century, Lancaster PA 8/21

[JohnS]

I enjoyed the ride, despite the light rain and head winds. Beautiful 
country side, most roads were quite, rolling terrain, all good! I would 
definitely do it again.
Bob and I were having a good time talking for the first half of the ride, 
but riding a fixed gear is out of sync with the rest of the biking world. 
You have to be more aggressive on the up hills and spin out on the down 
hills. I scanned through some of the photos, but couldn't find one of me. 
You would think an orange bicycle with a black Wald basket and olive Shop 
Shack would stand out more. I'll look some more later.

JohnS


On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 11:00:19 PM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> And don't forget, y'all. The Indian Head 100 Century ride (which Steve can 
> tell you more about) is on Labor Day.
>
> Here is my ride report from last year if you want my take on it: 
> https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/rbw-owners-bunch/indian$20head%7Csort:relevance/rbw-owners-bunch/gJPWltCIzqQ/wOtLARmNAgAJ
>

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[RBW] Re: Rat Trap Pass: reviews? impressions? poetic waxings?

[ascpgh]

The EL casing is so much more supple than most tires that my realization of 
too low of a pressure in my Stampede Pass Els was a low speed washout on 
the switchbacks of multi user ramp on a repurposed bridge, decked with 
concrete, on a sunny dry day, just as Clayton's. No "mold release" or bloom 
of tread compound liquor involved, all my fault, but these tires are so 
fantastic that I'm not surprised that I have to relearn so much of what I 
used to overlook as a given about tires.

My tire episode felt like it slipped, as Clayton described, but as soon as 
it occurred I looked down and saw that my big turn of the bars (30-35°)‚ at 
almost no forward speed twisted up the sidewalls, slack to that sort of 
force against the contact patch, and produced the wrinkles that immediately 
caused the sidewall to washout. I was just fortunate to see what happened.

Not too dissimilar to this appearance (that by horsepower, mine by a huge 
swing of the bars at low speed and an ill-advised low tire pressure):






Those Stampede Pass ELs on West Mountain, Hot Springs, National Park, AR


Andy Cheatham

Pittsburgh (Arkansas this week)


On Friday, August 19, 2016 at 12:11:00 PM UTC-4, Clayton wrote:
>
> I have been using the ultra lights with the tan sidewall. The sidewalls 
>> are translucent. Very, very light tires with a delicious ride. Supple. Sort 
>> of like riding on just an inner tube as the tire.
>>
>  
>
>> When I first installed them, the front end washed out on clean dry 
>> pavement and I wrecked. I blame the mold release on the tires combined with 
>> the pressure at 40 psi.  After the crash,  I took a long ride in the dirt 
>> to scrub the mold release off and now run the tires at 30 psi, which seems 
>> ideal. I have been a little reluctant to corner real hard (still have the 
>> road rash) but I'll head to a parking lot one of these days and see how far 
>> I can lean them. I rack the wreck up to operator error.(I knew about 
>> mold release on tires).
>>
>> If I was to purchase again, I'd get the standard, not the ultralights. 
> The standards are really light. 
>
> Beware, once you are spoiled by the ride of these tires, it will be hard 
> to take them off. 
>
> I haven't had them long enough to report on wear, but due to my wreck, I 
> am thinking they might have a harder compound, and should last longer than 
> they appear they would. 
>
> Last but not least, they look really cool. 
>
> Clayton (Bend)
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Kellie]

I confess, when I bought my Saluki off this list, I posted for an Atlantis 
or Saluki. The Saluki can up first and I went with it. I already had a 
Cheviot and needed something for longish rides on the road. I love the 
Cheviot but it is heavy and difficult to get on a bike rack. Now I really 
love the Saluki for my long rides. I've got it dialed in and it's super 
comfy. But in the back of my mind I've *always* wanted that Atlantis. So 
here I am again. Though I believe the Appaloosa would be an excellent 
choice, and the butternut is beautiful, I think the only reason I would 
consider another bike other than the Atlantis is money. And though money is 
an important factor, I don't know it's the most important factor. 
So I'm considering selling the Cheviot and *crossing my fingers a 
used frame will become available.*

On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 9:57:50 AM UTC-7, Kellie wrote:
>
> Just wondering what you guys think?  I really want an Atlantis but a new 
> one is out of my budget.  Intended use is mostly off road like fire trails, 
> cross country riding; NOT crazy downhill, rock gardens etc.  Since the 
> Appaloosa is supposed to be somewhere between the Hillborne and the Hunq, 
> I'm wondering if an Appaloosa would be an appropriate  substitute?
>
>  Big price difference between the two. I'm sure there is a tubing 
> difference. But the Appaloosa has the Hunq fork so that's plenty strong. 
> Maybe better cosmetics, detailed lugging on the Atlantis.  So you say why 
> not get a Hunq? But if I'm going to pop for a new Hunq I might as will buy 
> a new Atlantis. What do you think?
>

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[RBW] Re: Atlantis vs Appaloosa

[Garth]

Kellie,  But but but  but so what ?   Get what you want as 
otherwise you'll buy something you do not, and end up selling it later 
after you paid even more for your Atlantis as you had to buy 2 frames to 
get the one you wanted.



On Monday, August 22, 2016 at 12:57:50 PM UTC-4, Kellie wrote:
>
>   
> *I really want an Atlantis *
>

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