[RBW] Re: Berthoud Saddles

[Drw]

I got the h2 purchased 4 days ago direct from sell anatomica. The “2” versions 
were supposed to be the fixed versions. I can’t speak to previous iterations, 
since I never owned one, but I’m definitely gonna complain about this thing. 
Beyond it being super droopy (butt on seatpost  during 1st 5 mile ride, after 
extreme retensioning out of the box) it just reeks of low quality everywhere. A 
80$ brooks might weigh a bit more, but it costs half the price and will likely 
last 15x longer. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: WT: 66cm Riv Ramboulliet for a 62-64cm Riv

[tc]

Ah!  Thanks Jimmy.

tom

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 10:18:11 PM UTC-4, Jimmy Warren wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> Yes. The Rams started with the 64 cm and then the 68 cm sizes being 
> offered. Then in the height of the golden age of Toyo Rivs, 66’s came along 
> in Rams, some QBs, and I believe even Atlanti!
>
> -Jim
>
>
> On Apr 15, 2019, at 6:55 PM, tc > wrote:
>
> Hey Sean, 
> Was the Ram made in size 66 later on?  I ask because according to the Ram 
> brochure , 
> they were made in size 64 or 68, not 66.
>
> Sheldon's Ram page  
> seems to agree.  But maybe a 66 was made in the later years that I'm not 
> aware of?
>
> Regardless, curious, we're talking less than an inch of seat tube between 
> a 64 and 66, and I'd bet the same or less diff in top tube length.  Did you 
> have the seat post already slammed down?  It'd be a shame to give up that 
> bike over less than an inch!
>
> Tom
>
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[RBW] Re: Berthoud Saddles

[Drw]

This is not about berthound saddles, but I’m a little frustrated, so excuse the 
venting. I’ve ridden brooks for years. They were all vaguely comfortable and 
exceedingly durable. After reading the bikepacking.com reviews of the new 
improved selle anatomica, I bit the bullet , hoping for better than decently 
comfortable and lighter weight. What arrived was an incredibly loose saddle 
that needed 10 + full turns of tensioning and still feels loose. An instruction 
sheet that claims they have the longest rails in the business, oh but you can’t 
use the full length of them or they might break..and A claim of high 
durability, oh but make sure you get your butt off the saddle on every bump or 
it might break. Also I ordered their heaviest duty model. How is this so hard 
to get right?

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Re: [RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Will. Yes, I've been rolling with the tektro 720's on my 26in road bike for 
a few years, been through a couple of sets of Koolstops. Steve, they do have 
the grub screw. But it's not necessary to use it.

I think there are lots of variables that makes for such a wide variety of 
opinions. The two main ones in my estimation would be brake setup and user 
expectation.

n Monday, April 15, 2019 at 8:56:05 PM UTC-4, William deRosset wrote:
> Dear Mark,
> 
> Tektro cr720's are a fine enough brake, and when set up properly, work as 
> well as any. They have the significant advantage of using orbital brake pads 
> and slotted pad holder mounts that greatly simplify setup. Just replace the 
> astonishingly bad Tektro brake blocks with Kool-Stop Salmon pads
> Also, the hardware on the brake is less-than-beautifully finished, if 
> functional. 
> 
> They punch well above their $45/bike price. Add $12 for Salmon pads up front.
> 
> If cost is no object, then the RH brakes work well in my experience. They are 
> lovely as well.
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Will
> William M deRosset
> Fort Collins CO USA

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[RBW] Big Bottle and Cage Recommendations

[Drw]

How often do you plan to get the bottle out? I’ve found the king cage to be 
extremely durable, with the only real downside being how cumbersome it is to 
remove and reattach the bottle. I use mine to hold the very last reserves of 
water, a sleeping bag, whiskey, etc...things I’ll only access once a trip. I’d 
use a VO Mojave or widefoot for regularly accessed bottleage. 

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[RBW] Big Bottle and Cage Recommendations

[J Imler]

I've used this guy for years now. Only good to say. 

https://widefoot.com/product/litercage/

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Re: [RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Drw]

This conversation will have a million opinions. The tektros, in my opinion, are 
satisfactory at best. I haven’t tried the compass ones so I won’t weigh in. I 
will say that the Shimanos seem most intuitively strong and set upable out of 
the box. I’m not a giant fan of the Paul spring adjustment things (if other 
brakes don’t need them, I’m not sure why Paul’s do) though I’ll say If you want 
extreme power and a true quick release to open the arms for fat tires, Paul 
motolites are the best. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Patrick Moore]

The technique I learned for initial adjustment of threadless systems is to
tighten the preload until the bearings just slightly bind when you do the
"swing the front wheel" manoeuvre (hoist bike with front wheel dangling
downward, gently sway bike back and forth so that the front wheel swings).
Back off until the bearings just *don't* bind, tighten stem clamp. With
this method I don't have to readjust.



On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 5:30 PM hugh flynn  wrote:

> That was the larger part of my point, yes. Time spent in this life
> adjusting threaded headsets = statistically zero. Time spent adjusting
> threadless headsets = every time I swap a stem. Neither really amounts to
> enough time to give either a second thought, but the fact remains I've set
> threadless preload many more times than I have actually used my collection
> of headset wrenches.
>
> Hugh
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 10:50 AM Patrick Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> I get it; sorry, Hugh, I misunderstood. Yes, headset adjustment is rarely
>> needed for either type once done correctly.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 8:20 AM Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>>
>>> Which is to say, headsets very seldom need to be adjusted.  Which indeed
>>> is Hugh's point: you may size time adjusting, but since you do it so
>>> infrequently in the big picture the savings are inconsequential.
>>>
>>> It's the same thing with coding: you optimize code in an inner loop,
>>> that executes a lot, not code that executes only once each time the program
>>> runs.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 4/15/19 10:12 AM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
>>> Frequency? All the threadless headsets I've owned kept their adjustment
>>> at least as well as all the threaded ones I've used; and setting pre-load
>>> is far easier than setting bearing load on a threaded system and keeping it
>>> set while tightening the locknut.
>>>
>>> Patrick: threadless systems certainly have their disadvantages --
>>> largely that it's harder to adjust bar height -- but overall they are a
>>> heck of a lot easier to adjust than threaded ones.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 9:49 PM hugh flynn  wrote:
>>>
 The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it
 is astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...

 That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency
 with which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded
 headset adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when
 changing or adjusting a quill stem.

 Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
 Newburyport, MA
 --

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Steve Palincsar
>>> Alexandria, Virginia
>>> USA
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> **
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And
>> though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the
>> hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.*
>> --- J.R.R. Tolkien
>> ---
>> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews
>> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching
>> Other professional writing services
>> Expensive! But good.
>> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
>>
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> --
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> Newburyport, MA
>
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-- 



**





*Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret 

Re: [RBW] Re: WT: 66cm Riv Ramboulliet for a 62-64cm Riv

[James Warren]

Tom,

Yes. The Rams started with the 64 cm and then the 68 cm sizes being offered. 
Then in the height of the golden age of Toyo Rivs, 66’s came along in Rams, 
some QBs, and I believe even Atlanti!

-Jim


> On Apr 15, 2019, at 6:55 PM, tc  wrote:
> 
> Hey Sean, 
> Was the Ram made in size 66 later on?  I ask because according to the Ram 
> brochure , they 
> were made in size 64 or 68, not 66.
> 
> Sheldon's Ram page  seems 
> to agree.  But maybe a 66 was made in the later years that I'm not aware of?
> 
> Regardless, curious, we're talking less than an inch of seat tube between a 
> 64 and 66, and I'd bet the same or less diff in top tube length.  Did you 
> have the seat post already slammed down?  It'd be a shame to give up that 
> bike over less than an inch!
> 
> Tom
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Steve Palincsar]

Do the Tektros use one of those grub screws to anchor the straddle cable?

On 4/15/19 8:56 PM, William deRosset wrote:

Dear Mark,

Tektro cr720's are a fine enough brake, and when set up properly, work as well 
as any. They have the significant advantage of using orbital brake pads and 
slotted pad holder mounts that greatly simplify setup. Just replace the 
astonishingly bad Tektro brake blocks with Kool-Stop Salmon pads
Also, the hardware on the brake is less-than-beautifully finished, if 
functional.

They punch well above their $45/bike price. Add $12 for Salmon pads up front.

If cost is no object, then the RH brakes work well in my experience. They are 
lovely as well.

Best Regards,

Will
William M deRosset
Fort Collins CO USA


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Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: WT: 66cm Riv Ramboulliet for a 62-64cm Riv

[tc]

Hey Sean, 
Was the Ram made in size 66 later on?  I ask because according to the Ram 
brochure , 
they were made in size 64 or 68, not 66.

Sheldon's Ram page  seems 
to agree.  But maybe a 66 was made in the later years that I'm not aware of?

Regardless, curious, we're talking less than an inch of seat tube between a 
64 and 66, and I'd bet the same or less diff in top tube length.  Did you 
have the seat post already slammed down?  It'd be a shame to give up that 
bike over less than an inch!

Tom

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[RBW] Big Bottle and Cage Recommendations

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

For those of you with experience using them, recommendations on big bottle and 
cage combinations? My current plan for the 3-hole downtube brazons at the 
cranks on GBW is King Kage's Manythings Cage and Kleen Kanteen's 64oz. 
widemouth. Anyone try this combo or a similar volume bottle on the Manythings? 
How stable is it on the jouncy bits?

With abandon,
Patrick

www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
www.CatholicHalos.org
www.DeaconPatrick.org

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Re: [RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[William deRosset]

Dear Mark,

Tektro cr720's are a fine enough brake, and when set up properly, work as well 
as any. They have the significant advantage of using orbital brake pads and 
slotted pad holder mounts that greatly simplify setup. Just replace the 
astonishingly bad Tektro brake blocks with Kool-Stop Salmon pads
Also, the hardware on the brake is less-than-beautifully finished, if 
functional. 

They punch well above their $45/bike price. Add $12 for Salmon pads up front.

If cost is no object, then the RH brakes work well in my experience. They are 
lovely as well.

Best Regards,

Will
William M deRosset
Fort Collins CO USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Steve Palincsar]

Absolutely.  I was enchanted with it from the moment I first saw it at 
the Classic Rendezvous Weekend last May.  I know Peter Weigle loves the 
Mafac cantilevers, but he's told me he was pleasantly surprised - and 
very surprised indeed because the geometry is identical - at how much 
better the Herse brakes perform than the Mafacs.  And he's someone who 
knows how to get the best out of Mafacs.


On 4/15/19 8:22 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:

Beautiful bike, Steve. Built for the RH, and vice versa.


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[RBW] Re: Berthoud Saddles

[Don Compton]

My experience with leather saddles is so different than this discussion. 
For years I was using Brooks B-17 Ti models and every one developed a hump 
that made them uncomfortable for even a short ride. I sold them all. I have 
two Berthoud saddles and have not experienced any of these problems 
mentioned. I have used Odenaufs ( recommend bt Mr. Heine) and after a 
fairly long break-in, they have remained very comfortable.

On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 5:24:45 AM UTC-7, David Wadstrup wrote:
>
> I really like Berthoud saddles.  The Mente to me is the best saddle for 
> very upright riding positions.  Mainly because I don't have to ride with 
> the nose super high like I do with the Brooks.  I also like the Aspin for 
> bikes with drop bars.  I've been wondering, though, what the 
> Soulor/Galibier is like.  It's a narrower, racier saddle.  Does anyone here 
> have any experience with this saddle?  Is it too narrow?  Noticeably less 
> comfortable than the Aspin?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

James: I appreciate strong opinions, but I think saying that wide profile 
should be "discounted" for everything unless you are, to use a derogatory term, 
doing a "reenactment" is silly. My CR720s work just fine, as do my Dia Compe 
and Mafac wide profile brakes. I would guess you'll find other folks on this 
list that have a similar experience.

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Re: [RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Beautiful bike, Steve. Built for the RH, and vice versa.

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Re: [RBW] Re: 3x9 brifter recommendations? (Sam Hillborne 62cm, Tektro r559, noodles)

[Kurt Manley]

You need to use the alternate cable routing, clamping the cable on the 
opposite side of the pinch bolt to do Campy 10 to Shimano 9

Here's a nicely written guide that helped me when I set mine up

https://www.cxmagazine.com/shimano-campagnolo-ergopower-compatibility

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 4:30:39 PM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> Don't you need Campagnolo 11 Ergo to index right with Shimano 9?
>
>
> On 4/15/19 7:27 PM, Kurt Manley wrote:
>
> I'd recommend Campy 10 speed shifters set up "Shirmego" style. They will 
> work good with noodles since they are shorter and the front shifter has 
> very good trim adjustment which is needed when you're trying to run 
> chainrings that don't match what Shimano designed into their triple setup. 
> I've been running a setup like that for years and it works great. 
>
> On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 10:11:21 AM UTC-7, Pancake wrote: 
>>
>> My friend got a Sam Hillborne and wants to swap over to brifters (since 
>> he enjoyed them so much on the last bike he rode). What 3x9 brifters would 
>> you recommend? 
>>
>> Current setup: 
>> 62cm Sam 
>> 44cm Noodle handlebars 
>> Tektro R559 brakes 
>> 3x9 gearing (Sugino triple 24/36/46 and Shimano cassette 11–34t) 
>>
>> What 3x9 compatible brifters do you recommend? 
>>
>> Alternately, should he switch everything to a 2x10 or 2x11 drivetrain and 
>> compatible brifters? Personally I only like friction with a triple setup, 
>> so switching to 2x indexed seems like a reasonable option. 
>>
>> Yes: I already tried convincing him to stick with bar ends, but he’s not 
>> budging. 
>
>
> -- 
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia 
> USA
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Last Call: Parts donations for San Diego BSC hubbahubbah tandem

[Alex Wirth- Owner, Yellow Haus Bicycles]

Thanks Carl!

John I think the Crazy Bar/Stem isn't good fit for this project but we 
certainly appreciate the thought...

Tim, I added your shifters to the spreadsheet...thank you kindly.




I'll circle back by Friday and let everyone know they can ship...talk soon!

Alex in Rochester

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[hugh flynn]

That was the larger part of my point, yes. Time spent in this life
adjusting threaded headsets = statistically zero. Time spent adjusting
threadless headsets = every time I swap a stem. Neither really amounts to
enough time to give either a second thought, but the fact remains I've set
threadless preload many more times than I have actually used my collection
of headset wrenches.

Hugh

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 10:50 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I get it; sorry, Hugh, I misunderstood. Yes, headset adjustment is rarely
> needed for either type once done correctly.
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 8:20 AM Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>
>> Which is to say, headsets very seldom need to be adjusted.  Which indeed
>> is Hugh's point: you may size time adjusting, but since you do it so
>> infrequently in the big picture the savings are inconsequential.
>>
>> It's the same thing with coding: you optimize code in an inner loop, that
>> executes a lot, not code that executes only once each time the program runs.
>>
>>
>> On 4/15/19 10:12 AM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Frequency? All the threadless headsets I've owned kept their adjustment
>> at least as well as all the threaded ones I've used; and setting pre-load
>> is far easier than setting bearing load on a threaded system and keeping it
>> set while tightening the locknut.
>>
>> Patrick: threadless systems certainly have their disadvantages -- largely
>> that it's harder to adjust bar height -- but overall they are a heck of a
>> lot easier to adjust than threaded ones.
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 9:49 PM hugh flynn  wrote:
>>
>>> The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it
>>> is astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...
>>>
>>> That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency
>>> with which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded
>>> headset adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when
>>> changing or adjusting a quill stem.
>>>
>>> Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
>>> Newburyport, MA
>>> --
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Steve Palincsar
>> Alexandria, Virginia
>> USA
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> **
>
>
>
>
>
> *Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And
> though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the
> hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.*
> --- J.R.R. Tolkien
> ---
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching
> Other professional writing services
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>
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-- 
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Newburyport, MA

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Re: [RBW] Re: 3x9 brifter recommendations? (Sam Hillborne 62cm, Tektro r559, noodles)

[Steve Palincsar]

Don't you need Campagnolo 11 Ergo to index right with Shimano 9?


On 4/15/19 7:27 PM, Kurt Manley wrote:
I'd recommend Campy 10 speed shifters set up "Shirmego" style. They 
will work good with noodles since they are shorter and the front 
shifter has very good trim adjustment which is needed when you're 
trying to run chainrings that don't match what Shimano designed into 
their triple setup. I've been running a setup like that for years and 
it works great.


On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 10:11:21 AM UTC-7, Pancake wrote:

My friend got a Sam Hillborne and wants to swap over to brifters
(since he enjoyed them so much on the last bike he rode). What 3x9
brifters would you recommend?

Current setup:
62cm Sam
44cm Noodle handlebars
Tektro R559 brakes
3x9 gearing (Sugino triple 24/36/46 and Shimano cassette 11–34t)

What 3x9 compatible brifters do you recommend?

Alternately, should he switch everything to a 2x10 or 2x11
drivetrain and compatible brifters? Personally I only like
friction with a triple setup, so switching to 2x indexed seems
like a reasonable option.

Yes: I already tried convincing him to stick with bar ends, but
he’s not budging. 




--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: 3x9 brifter recommendations? (Sam Hillborne 62cm, Tektro r559, noodles)

[Kurt Manley]

I'd recommend Campy 10 speed shifters set up "Shirmego" style. They will 
work good with noodles since they are shorter and the front shifter has 
very good trim adjustment which is needed when you're trying to run 
chainrings that don't match what Shimano designed into their triple setup. 
I've been running a setup like that for years and it works great. 

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 10:11:21 AM UTC-7, Pancake wrote:
>
> My friend got a Sam Hillborne and wants to swap over to brifters (since he 
> enjoyed them so much on the last bike he rode). What 3x9 brifters would you 
> recommend? 
>
> Current setup: 
> 62cm Sam 
> 44cm Noodle handlebars 
> Tektro R559 brakes 
> 3x9 gearing (Sugino triple 24/36/46 and Shimano cassette 11–34t) 
>
> What 3x9 compatible brifters do you recommend? 
>
> Alternately, should he switch everything to a 2x10 or 2x11 drivetrain and 
> compatible brifters? Personally I only like friction with a triple setup, 
> so switching to 2x indexed seems like a reasonable option. 
>
> Yes: I already tried convincing him to stick with bar ends, but he’s not 
> budging. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Eric Daume]

But on the other hand, I remember mountain biking back in the day, when
every crash would involve straightening out the threaded stem before I
could get back on the trail. This never happens with threadless... though
maybe in part because I crash less now than I used to.

Eric

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 6:24 PM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> You’re right—I don’t do this often. However, in 2007 when I was near the
> finish of PBP and suffering from some pretty bad numbness in my hands, it
> was *so* helpful to be able to raise the stem easily on the road. That took
> some weight off my hands and allowed me to finish the ride (although my
> hands were tingly and a bit weak for several months after).
>
> --Eric Norris
> campyonly...@me.com
> @CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)
>
> On Apr 15, 2019, at 3:22 PM, William deRosset 
> wrote:
>
> >Try changing the height of your bars on the road with a threadless stem.
> If you set it up correctly (extra length in the steerer+ extra spacers), it
> can be done ... but it will take ten times longer than with a quill stem.
>
> Dear Eric,
>
> If one is in the habit of constantly changing one's bar height without
> making corresponding changes to one's stem extension, you are correct.
>
> If one adjusts both height and reach in tandem (necessary in my
> experience), then most quill setups (which do not have removable face
> plates) are a bigger pain than playing musical removable-faceplate stems.
>
> If one more-or-less sets the handlebar position and doesn't mess with it
> (most riders I know fall into this latter bin), then this disadvantage is
> not really a significant one.
>
> My René Herse has the awkward combination of a one-off clamp-on stem and
> threaded headset, and the only time it bugs me (besides aesthetically--it
> is not an elegant engineering solution in my opinion) is about every four
> years, when I travel by air with it and have to pull the fork. I could
> freely adjust the bar height, though...
>
> Finally, how often do you actually change stem height *during a ride*
> once your fit is dialed in? My frequency is zero (since 1976).
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Will
> William M. deRosset
> Fort Collins, CO
>
>
> On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 8:11:43 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>>
>> Try changing the height of your bars on the road with a threadless stem.
>> If you set it up correctly (extra length in the steerer+ extra spacers), it
>> can be done ... but it will take ten times longer than with a quill stem.
>>
>> OTOH, it’s impossible to get a threadless stem stuck inside the steerer,
>> which has happened on several of my standard-quill bikes.
>>
>> Eric N
>> www.CampyOnly.com 
>> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com 
>> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>>
>> On Apr 14, 2019, at 8:49 PM, hugh flynn  wrote:
>>
>> The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it is
>> astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...
>>
>> That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency
>> with which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded
>> headset adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when
>> changing or adjusting a quill stem.
>>
>> Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
>> Newburyport, MA
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:07 PM Drw  wrote:
>>
>>> Yes. This is what kept me away from threadless for so long. It seemed so
>>> complicated based on descriptions. In reality it’s super simple. So much so
>>> that I questioned what I was doing the first few times. “Is the stem bolt
>>> actually holding the fork on the bike?” Still runs thru my head.
>>>
>>> --
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com.
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>> --
>> Hugh Flynn
>> Newburyport, MA
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

You’re right—I don’t do this often. However, in 2007 when I was near the finish 
of PBP and suffering from some pretty bad numbness in my hands, it was *so* 
helpful to be able to raise the stem easily on the road. That took some weight 
off my hands and allowed me to finish the ride (although my hands were tingly 
and a bit weak for several months after).

--Eric Norris
campyonly...@me.com
@CampyOnlyguy (Twitter/Instagram)

> On Apr 15, 2019, at 3:22 PM, William deRosset  wrote:
> 
> >Try changing the height of your bars on the road with a threadless stem. If 
> >you set it up correctly (extra length in the steerer+ extra spacers), it can 
> >be done ... but it will take ten times longer than with a quill stem.
> 
> Dear Eric,
> 
> If one is in the habit of constantly changing one's bar height without making 
> corresponding changes to one's stem extension, you are correct. 
> 
> If one adjusts both height and reach in tandem (necessary in my experience), 
> then most quill setups (which do not have removable face plates) are a bigger 
> pain than playing musical removable-faceplate stems.
> 
> If one more-or-less sets the handlebar position and doesn't mess with it 
> (most riders I know fall into this latter bin), then this disadvantage is not 
> really a significant one. 
> 
> My René Herse has the awkward combination of a one-off clamp-on stem and 
> threaded headset, and the only time it bugs me (besides aesthetically--it is 
> not an elegant engineering solution in my opinion) is about every four years, 
> when I travel by air with it and have to pull the fork. I could freely adjust 
> the bar height, though...
> 
> Finally, how often do you actually change stem height during a ride once your 
> fit is dialed in? My frequency is zero (since 1976).
> 
> Best Regards,
> 
> Will
> William M. deRosset
> Fort Collins, CO
>  
> 
> On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 8:11:43 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
> Try changing the height of your bars on the road with a threadless stem. If 
> you set it up correctly (extra length in the steerer+ extra spacers), it can 
> be done ... but it will take ten times longer than with a quill stem.
> 
> OTOH, it’s impossible to get a threadless stem stuck inside the steerer, 
> which has happened on several of my standard-quill bikes.
> 
> Eric N
> www.CampyOnly.com 
> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com 
> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
> 
> On Apr 14, 2019, at 8:49 PM, hugh flynn > wrote:
> 
>> The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it is 
>> astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...
>> 
>> That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency with 
>> which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded headset 
>> adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when changing or 
>> adjusting a quill stem.
>> 
>> Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
>> Newburyport, MA
>> 
>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:07 PM Drw > wrote:
>> Yes. This is what kept me away from threadless for so long. It seemed so 
>> complicated based on descriptions. In reality it’s super simple. So much so 
>> that I questioned what I was doing the first few times. “Is the stem bolt 
>> actually holding the fork on the bike?” Still runs thru my head. 
>> 
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com <>.
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>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch 
>> .
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout 
>> .
>> -- 
>> Hugh Flynn
>> Newburyport, MA
>> 
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> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[William deRosset]

>Try changing the height of your bars on the road with a threadless stem. 
If you set it up correctly (extra length in the steerer+ extra spacers), it 
can be done ... but it will take ten times longer than with a quill stem.

Dear Eric,

If one is in the habit of constantly changing one's bar height without 
making corresponding changes to one's stem extension, you are correct. 

If one adjusts both height and reach in tandem (necessary in my 
experience), then most quill setups (which do not have removable face 
plates) are a bigger pain than playing musical removable-faceplate stems.

If one more-or-less sets the handlebar position and doesn't mess with it 
(most riders I know fall into this latter bin), then this disadvantage is 
not really a significant one. 

My René Herse has the awkward combination of a one-off clamp-on stem and 
threaded headset, and the only time it bugs me (besides aesthetically--it 
is not an elegant engineering solution in my opinion) is about every four 
years, when I travel by air with it and have to pull the fork. I could 
freely adjust the bar height, though...

Finally, how often do you actually change stem height *during a ride* once 
your fit is dialed in? My frequency is zero (since 1976).

Best Regards,

Will
William M. deRosset
Fort Collins, CO
 

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 8:11:43 AM UTC-6, Eric Norris wrote:
>
> Try changing the height of your bars on the road with a threadless stem. 
> If you set it up correctly (extra length in the steerer+ extra spacers), it 
> can be done ... but it will take ten times longer than with a quill stem.
>
> OTOH, it’s impossible to get a threadless stem stuck inside the steerer, 
> which has happened on several of my standard-quill bikes.
>
> Eric N
> www.CampyOnly.com
> CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
> Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy
>
> On Apr 14, 2019, at 8:49 PM, hugh flynn > 
> wrote:
>
> The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it is 
> astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...
>
> That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency 
> with which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded 
> headset adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when 
> changing or adjusting a quill stem.
>
> Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
> Newburyport, MA
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:07 PM Drw > 
> wrote:
>
>> Yes. This is what kept me away from threadless for so long. It seemed so 
>> complicated based on descriptions. In reality it’s super simple. So much so 
>> that I questioned what I was doing the first few times. “Is the stem bolt 
>> actually holding the fork on the bike?” Still runs thru my head. 
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com .
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>> .
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>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
> -- 
> Hugh Flynn
> Newburyport, MA
>
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>

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[RBW] Re: 3x9 brifter recommendations? (Sam Hillborne 62cm, Tektro r559, noodles)

[Joe Bernard]

The chink in this plan is the cranks. The bike wasn't built to run brifters, 
and it'll be sheer dumb luck if the front shifting works. You're starting with 
a 105 derailer which will match Shimano brifters so that's a plus, but it's 
designed for a specific set of Shimano rings. Good luck! 爛

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Re: [RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Garth]

Sorry, I can't dumb it down any more. I'm out. 



On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 5:03:29 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> So because there is a different standard for bottom bracket threading to 
> British, British BB threading is no longer a standard?
>
> If you want to use the Herse brakes, distance between posts should be: 62 
> - 84 mm.  According to discussions I've seen on the forums, back in the 
> heyday of cantilever brakes on MTBs Shimano decreed that posts would be 
> 80mm apart.  Evidently in the past (perhaps even distant past) that spacing 
> had been 60.  The modern standard is 80mm, and it's said all the brakes 
> designed in the last 25 years are built for that.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Many nice Sam Hillbornes lately

[Ash]

Really good stuff!

The bash guard that comes with side/low is really my favorite.  Would be 
grate to have it in black.

Who does the powder coating for you?


On Monday, 15 April 2019 12:36:32 UTC-7, jandrews wrote:
>
> Ash the frame was originally green with gold decals 
> I had it powder coated black about 5 years ago and went decal-less for 
> most of that time until last month when I put on some over top decals.
> The bash guard is the Sugino one that comes on the wide/low.  I also had 
> it powder coated recently with some stainless Berthoud fenders.
>
>
>
> On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 3:02:29 PM UTC-4, Ash wrote:
>>
>> Looks very nice!  Did not know Sam came in that color.
>>
>> Question: which is that black bash guard?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, 15 April 2019 07:21:39 UTC-7, jandrews wrote:
>>>
>>> Picking up this old thread since I rebuilt the SH after pilfering most 
>>> parts off of it for the new Appaloosa build 
>>> Currently set up as 1x8 road and trail bike with Gravel King 700x43's.
>>> This is the very first Hillborne release from when they were green and 
>>> gold.
>>> Size 56
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_1408.jpg]
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Steve Palincsar]

So because there is a different standard for bottom bracket threading to 
British, British BB threading is no longer a standard?


If you want to use the Herse brakes, distance between posts should be: 
62 - 84 mm.  According to discussions I've seen on the forums, back in 
the heyday of cantilever brakes on MTBs Shimano decreed that posts would 
be 80mm apart.  Evidently in the past (perhaps even distant past) that 
spacing had been 60. The modern standard is 80mm, and it's said all the 
brakes designed in the last 25 years are built for that.


On 4/15/19 4:52 PM, Garth wrote:


Sorry Steve, no standard. A standard to be a standard must be 
universal, independent of brands of parts, frame or builder. British 
BB threading, that's a standard.



On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 3:41:21 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:

There is a standard, it's just that not everybody has followed
it.   Most cantilever brakes try to incorporate a lot of
adjustability to compensate for that.  Since the Herse brake is
primarily intended for custom bikes, the expectation is the
builder will adhere to the published specifications.  In that
context, it's a reasonable expectation.  Obviously that doesn't
work really well for retrofitting onto an existing frame made with
any old whimsical canti post spacing.  However, it's not too
likely you'd be putting brakes that cost that much on such a frame
in the first place.

On 4/15/19 3:21 PM, Garth wrote:

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Re: [RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Garth]

Sorry Steve, no standard. A standard to be a standard must be universal, 
independent of brands of parts, frame or builder. British BB threading, 
that's a standard. 


On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 3:41:21 PM UTC-4, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> There is a standard, it's just that not everybody has followed it.   Most 
> cantilever brakes try to incorporate a lot of adjustability to compensate 
> for that.  Since the Herse brake is primarily intended for custom bikes, 
> the expectation is the builder will adhere to the published 
> specifications.  In that context, it's a reasonable expectation.  Obviously 
> that doesn't work really well for retrofitting onto an existing frame made 
> with any old whimsical canti post spacing.  However, it's not too likely 
> you'd be putting brakes that cost that much on such a frame in the first 
> place.
> On 4/15/19 3:21 PM, Garth wrote:
>
>

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[RBW] Re: 3x9 brifter recommendations? (Sam Hillborne 62cm, Tektro r559, noodles)

[Pancake]

Interesting and good thought - I'll check with him for at least a photo of 
the bike he used before. It was ridden on a 3 day tour but before that he 
hadn't been riding at all (and didn't own a bike for many years) but he 
enjoyed it enough to want a touring sort of steel bike with drop bars ... 
the Sam sure seems right for that! We rode from Berkeley to Treasure Island 
yesterday and I think he's hooked.

His Sam came well equipped but poorly cared for (brake pad holders scraping 
the rear rim because the pads are so worn, front wheel way out of true, 
desperately needing new cables/housing, rear derailleur cable riding on the 
bottom bracket because it jumped from the guide, and more maintenance stuff 
... but the schlacked and twined bar tape healy up really well). Bike was 
$1,650 on craigslist an included:

   - 62cm Sam
   - Intelligent Design Cycles Classy dynamo wheel 
   

 
   (Shutter Precision PV-8 hub, SON T14 rim, etc)
   - IQ-X headlight , B top 
   plus tail light 
   - Rich Lesnik rear wheel Velocity Dyad, Shimano LX hub, DT swiss comp 
   spokes
   - Marks rack and a nice rear rack, maybe VO
   - Nice metal fenders (maybe VO)
   - Brooks B-17 (which may need replacement, a load of proofide and time 
   will tell)
   - Mismatched Compass and Panaracer tires (38mm)
   - Randomly a 105 front derailleur 
   - The rest seems like the standard drop bar Sam build from Riv.

I'll have him change over to the brifters and try them for a long ride 
before deciding on whether to get new bars. He really hangs out in the 
drops while riding, it's strange because I'm only in the drops when the 
wind turns me into a sail or I'm digging for some hustle to get home before 
the time I told my wife I'd be there.


On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 12:49:08 PM UTC-7, Reid Echols wrote:
>
> Were the bars on his last bike that long of a reach (those look like 
> Noodles or similar). In my experience, brifters work much better/are much 
> more comfortable with shorter reach modern bars. The Soma HWY One (and VO 
> clone of it) is one of the only games in town for that in 26.0 and silver. 
>
> Reid (currently on his 4th handlebar swap on his 64cm Sam) in Austin 
>
> On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 12:11:21 PM UTC-5, Pancake wrote:
>>
>> My friend got a Sam Hillborne and wants to swap over to brifters (since 
>> he enjoyed them so much on the last bike he rode). What 3x9 brifters would 
>> you recommend? 
>>
>> Current setup: 
>> 62cm Sam 
>> 44cm Noodle handlebars 
>> Tektro R559 brakes 
>> 3x9 gearing (Sugino triple 24/36/46 and Shimano cassette 11–34t) 
>>
>> What 3x9 compatible brifters do you recommend? 
>>
>> Alternately, should he switch everything to a 2x10 or 2x11 drivetrain and 
>> compatible brifters? Personally I only like friction with a triple setup, 
>> so switching to 2x indexed seems like a reasonable option. 
>>
>> Yes: I already tried convincing him to stick with bar ends, but he’s not 
>> budging. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Philip Williamson]

The CX-50, in addition to a fixed straddle cable has spacers for the pads. 
You measure the cantilever post spacing, measure your rim width, and 
consult a table (a PDF on the Shimano site) to choose the best pad spacer. 

I have these brakes, they work great, and I may have paid $30 for a 
bikesworth, brand new. Highly recommended, even with the black pads that 
are about due for a Koolstop upgrade. 

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA 


On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 5:52:08 AM UTC-7, Steve Palincsar wrote:
>
> I'd be very surprised indeed if the cx70 had more power than the Rene 
> Herse cantilever.  The low profile design is noted for losing power as the 
> pads get closer to the rim.
>
> Low profile cantilevers like this are very sensitive to straddle cable 
> adjustment, whereas mid-profile cantilevers like the Herse brake are 
> insensitive to it.  All the complex documentation about canti adjustment is 
> based on the low profile design's sensitivity to height of the straddle 
> cable support.  None of that is applicable to the Herse design.
>
> In both these cases, it should be noted, the straddle cable length isn't 
> adjustable per se; with the Shimano style various lengths of straddle cable 
> are available. A longer straddle cable was promised at one point for the 
> Herse brake, for special applications, but I'm not sure if it's been made 
> available yet, as I don't see such a thing listed on their web site.  
>
> As for ease of setup, the Herse brake isn't like some smooth post 
> cantilever brakes.  Yes there is one nut holding the post in place and on 
> loosening the bolt you can slide the pad in and out, rotate it and tilt 
> it.  But it's not quite like some, where undoing that one nut loosens 
> everything - vertical, toe, and all the rest.  There is no vertical 
> adjustment, and toe is set either permanently once by bending, or using a 
> notched washer.  There also is no adjustment for spring tension.
>
>
> On 4/15/19 12:59 AM, Drw wrote:
>
> Oh man, 
> Those compass ones look super nice but I’d take the setup and power of the 
> cx70/50 any day over those any day. I’m no expert mechanic but I’ve used 
> cantis that with the way the compass ones do and, for me, they are a big 
> pain. At this point I
>
>
> -- 
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia 
> USA
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Rebuilding MKS Touring Pedals

[Jeffrey Arita]

+1 regarding Patrick Moore's comments.

I have found after cleaning and regreasing the components, that the 
re-adjustment back to 'just right' can be a fair amount of 
trial-and-error.  It can be done but patience is necessary.

I have also found the following to be extremely useful to capture all of 
those darned loose ball bearings:

https://www.amazon.com/Performance-Tool-W9100-Magnetic-Pick-Up/dp/B00276MRT2/ref=sr_1_7?hvadid=17342947=c=9031212=g=1t1=b=17420540817160236484=kwd-67460143889=magnetic+telescoping+pickup+tool=1555358101=gateway=8-7

Deacon Patrick, do you also have the MKS dustcap tool?  Riv sells them

Good luck!

Jeff 

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 8:01:06 AM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I take it these are the old Touring pedal, not the more expensive and 
> cartridge bearing model ...
>
> If the pedals are dry but not gritty, one option is to shoot them full of 
> thick grease using a grease gun. Another is to set them on end and dribble 
> heavy oil, like Phi'ls, into the, and let them sit.
>
> Are these new pedals? -- ie bearings typically overtight and underlubed? 
> For years I've dribbled oil and simply ridden the bearings smooth; they 
> still last a long time without need for further intervention.
>
> The processes for disassembly and re-assembly is complicated by wee little 
> bearings and wee little cones and wee little locknuts, and locknuts on 
> rather imprecise threads so that it's rather delicate to find the bearing 
> load that doesn't become too high when tightening the locknut. Sorry, don't 
> have a video to share, but the technique is the same for all loose bearing 
> pedals, and any video on rebuilding these should suffice.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 8:50 AM 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
>> Can anyone recommend a good video for rebuilding MKS Touring pedals? 
>> Standard cone bearings. I don't think I need new bearings, just to open 
>> them up and lube. Is that as simple as remove the end cap, insert lube, 
>> replace end cap? If so, no video required. Grin.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>> www.CatholicHalos.org
>> www.DeaconPatrick.org
>>
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>>
>
>
> -- 
>
>
>
>
> **
>
>
>
>
>
> *Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And 
> though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the 
> hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.*
> --- J.R.R. Tolkien
> ---
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching
> Other professional writing services
> Expensive! But good.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Steve Palincsar]

My latest bike has Rene Herse cantilevers. The bike is a JP Weigle, and 
it is 100.000% to spec.  Alignment is perfect.  Of course, you would 
expect that.


I took this with my flip phone the other day while out test riding.  I 
haven't actually finished 100% with the build and haven't sat down to 
photograph it.


This is the bike Peter was riding last year, and in many ways it's very 
similar to the CdM bike -- only without the most extreme weight shaving 
measures.



On 4/15/19 1:15 PM, sameness wrote:
Steve, are you using the Rene Herse cantilevers? Newer or older canti 
stud spacing? Did the pads align in the middle of the slots straight 
out of the gate?


Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA


Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[David Hays]

I just put them on mine and they fit quite nicely and have nice finish to fit 
with an older bike.
Still having to fine tune the noise out of the front brake.
David Hays
Williamsville, New York

> On Apr 15, 2019, at 3:39 PM, EasyRider  wrote:
> 
> Another benefit of the Altus cantis is that they will work with older forks 
> that have narrower post spacing. The Bridgestone RB-T, for example.
> 
> On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 3:21:58 PM UTC-4, Garth wrote:
> 
>  I too find that price in no guarantees anything more than the expenditure 
> itself. For me the best canti per given frame is the one that works. Oh I 
> know how that sounds, but from the all the bikes I have/had with canti 
> brakes, no 2 are ever alike. For one there is no standard spacing vertically 
> or horizontally due to limitless frame designs and constructor sensibilities. 
> It's part of the canti "mystique" I suppose.
> For every "this whatever is best" ... I ask for just whom would that be best 
> for, and it seems best for none other than the claim itself, which is nobody 
> ! 
> 
> What's the canti best brake ?. Whaddaya got, let's try it  ! 
> 
> 
> Shimano BR-MC70's, M73x series , Suntour XC Pro and Tektro CR710 all have 
> worked well for me. The CR720 ...not so far... maybe on some other bike 
> they'll work. Kool Stop Salmon or black pads both work fine. I only use the 
> basic straddle carriers, the rest are good for taking up storage space it 
> seems.  I prefer posted pads too , especially in the front to clear the fork. 
> KS pads can easily be shortened with a pair of snips and a file. The pads 
> internal frame only goes back to the last notch in the rubber, allowing the 
> easy mod. Pads used to be centered in the 80's so clearance was never an 
> issue. I find not one thing beneficial about offset or even longer pads than 
> road sized.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up about the Altus canti James, I may get a set.  It's 
> funny how "low end" parts can be overlooked, when they're often quite fine. 
> 
> 
> 
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[RBW] Re: 3x9 brifter recommendations? (Sam Hillborne 62cm, Tektro r559, noodles)

[Reid Echols]

Were the bars on his last bike that long of a reach (those look like 
Noodles or similar). In my experience, brifters work much better/are much 
more comfortable with shorter reach modern bars. The Soma HWY One (and VO 
clone of it) is one of the only games in town for that in 26.0 and silver. 

Reid (currently on his 4th handlebar swap on his 64cm Sam) in Austin 

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 12:11:21 PM UTC-5, Pancake wrote:
>
> My friend got a Sam Hillborne and wants to swap over to brifters (since he 
> enjoyed them so much on the last bike he rode). What 3x9 brifters would you 
> recommend? 
>
> Current setup: 
> 62cm Sam 
> 44cm Noodle handlebars 
> Tektro R559 brakes 
> 3x9 gearing (Sugino triple 24/36/46 and Shimano cassette 11–34t) 
>
> What 3x9 compatible brifters do you recommend? 
>
> Alternately, should he switch everything to a 2x10 or 2x11 drivetrain and 
> compatible brifters? Personally I only like friction with a triple setup, 
> so switching to 2x indexed seems like a reasonable option. 
>
> Yes: I already tried convincing him to stick with bar ends, but he’s not 
> budging. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Steve Palincsar]

There is a standard, it's just that not everybody has followed it.   
Most cantilever brakes try to incorporate a lot of adjustability to 
compensate for that. Since the Herse brake is primarily intended for 
custom bikes, the expectation is the builder will adhere to the 
published specifications.  In that context, it's a reasonable 
expectation.  Obviously that doesn't work really well for retrofitting 
onto an existing frame made with any old whimsical canti post spacing.  
However, it's not too likely you'd be putting brakes that cost that much 
on such a frame in the first place.


On 4/15/19 3:21 PM, Garth wrote:


 I too find that price in no guarantees anything more than the 
expenditure itself. For me the best canti per given frame is the one 
that works. Oh I know how that sounds, but from the all the bikes I 
have/had with canti brakes, no 2 are ever alike. For one there is no 
standard spacing vertically or horizontally due to limitless frame 
designs and constructor sensibilities. It's part of the canti 
"mystique" I suppose.
For every "this /whatever/ is best" ... I ask for just whom would that 
be best for, and it seems best for none other than the claim itself, 
which is nobody !


What's the canti best brake ?. /Whaddaya got, let's try it  !
/
/
/
/
/
Shimano BR-MC70's, M73x series , Suntour XC Pro and Tektro CR710 all 
have worked well for me. The CR720 ...not so far... maybe on some 
other bike they'll work. Kool Stop Salmon or black pads both work 
fine. I only use the basic straddle carriers, the rest are good for 
taking up storage space it seems.  I prefer posted pads too , 
especially in the front to clear the fork. KS pads can easily be 
shortened with a pair of snips and a file. The pads internal frame 
only goes back to the last notch in the rubber, allowing the easy mod. 
Pads used to be centered in the 80's so clearance was never an issue. 
I find not one thing beneficial about offset or even longer pads than 
road sized.


Thanks for the heads up about the Altus canti James, I may get a set.  
It's funny how "low end" parts can be overlooked, when they're often 
quite fine.




--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[EasyRider]

Another benefit of the Altus cantis is that they will work with older forks 
that have narrower post spacing. The Bridgestone RB-T, for example.

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 3:21:58 PM UTC-4, Garth wrote:
>
>
>  I too find that price in no guarantees anything more than the expenditure 
> itself. For me the best canti per given frame is the one that works. Oh I 
> know how that sounds, but from the all the bikes I have/had with canti 
> brakes, no 2 are ever alike. For one there is no standard spacing 
> vertically or horizontally due to limitless frame designs and constructor 
> sensibilities. It's part of the canti "mystique" I suppose.
> For every "this *whatever* is best" ... I ask for just whom would that be 
> best for, and it seems best for none other than the claim itself, which is 
> nobody ! 
>
> What's the canti best brake ?. 
> *Whaddaya got, let's try it  ! *
>
>
> Shimano BR-MC70's, M73x series , Suntour XC Pro and Tektro CR710 all have 
> worked well for me. The CR720 ...not so far... maybe on some other bike 
> they'll work. Kool Stop Salmon or black pads both work fine. I only use the 
> basic straddle carriers, the rest are good for taking up storage space it 
> seems.  I prefer posted pads too , especially in the front to clear the 
> fork. KS pads can easily be shortened with a pair of snips and a file. The 
> pads internal frame only goes back to the last notch in the rubber, 
> allowing the easy mod. Pads used to be centered in the 80's so clearance 
> was never an issue. I find not one thing beneficial about offset or even 
> longer pads than road sized.
>
> Thanks for the heads up about the Altus canti James, I may get a set.  
> It's funny how "low end" parts can be overlooked, when they're often quite 
> fine. 
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Many nice Sam Hillbornes lately

[jandrews]

Ash the frame was originally green with gold decals 
I had it powder coated black about 5 years ago and went decal-less for most 
of that time until last month when I put on some over top decals.
The bash guard is the Sugino one that comes on the wide/low.  I also had it 
powder coated recently with some stainless Berthoud fenders.



On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 3:02:29 PM UTC-4, Ash wrote:
>
> Looks very nice!  Did not know Sam came in that color.
>
> Question: which is that black bash guard?
>
>
>
> On Monday, 15 April 2019 07:21:39 UTC-7, jandrews wrote:
>>
>> Picking up this old thread since I rebuilt the SH after pilfering most 
>> parts off of it for the new Appaloosa build 
>> Currently set up as 1x8 road and trail bike with Gravel King 700x43's.
>> This is the very first Hillborne release from when they were green and 
>> gold.
>> Size 56
>>
>> [image: IMG_1408.jpg]
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Garth]

 I too find that price in no guarantees anything more than the expenditure 
itself. For me the best canti per given frame is the one that works. Oh I 
know how that sounds, but from the all the bikes I have/had with canti 
brakes, no 2 are ever alike. For one there is no standard spacing 
vertically or horizontally due to limitless frame designs and constructor 
sensibilities. It's part of the canti "mystique" I suppose.
For every "this *whatever* is best" ... I ask for just whom would that be 
best for, and it seems best for none other than the claim itself, which is 
nobody ! 

What's the canti best brake ?. 
*Whaddaya got, let's try it  ! *


Shimano BR-MC70's, M73x series , Suntour XC Pro and Tektro CR710 all have 
worked well for me. The CR720 ...not so far... maybe on some other bike 
they'll work. Kool Stop Salmon or black pads both work fine. I only use the 
basic straddle carriers, the rest are good for taking up storage space it 
seems.  I prefer posted pads too , especially in the front to clear the 
fork. KS pads can easily be shortened with a pair of snips and a file. The 
pads internal frame only goes back to the last notch in the rubber, 
allowing the easy mod. Pads used to be centered in the 80's so clearance 
was never an issue. I find not one thing beneficial about offset or even 
longer pads than road sized.

Thanks for the heads up about the Altus canti James, I may get a set.  It's 
funny how "low end" parts can be overlooked, when they're often quite fine. 


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[RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Clayton.sf]

Another nice set of Cantis were the recent iteration Campagnolo put out. I 
believe they were made for them by Tektro.

They are the best cantis I have ever uses and I continue to have them on 2 
bikes (have used Pauls, Shimano, Empella, Mafac in the past). I don't think 
they are in production anymore but you might get lucky used.

Here the model I am referring to (not my listing or anyone I know): 
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Campagnolo-CX-cantilever-brakes-black-good-condition/254200384346?hash=item3b2f860b5a:g:RVkAAOSw1LdctCdQ

Best,
Clayton Scott
HBG, CA






On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 5:00:01 PM UTC-7, Erik Wright wrote:
>
> I'm thinking about getting canti posts brazed onto my sidepull Sam 
> Hillborne to fit a wider tire / make wide tire installation easier. Canti 
> brakes would be replacing Paul Racers.
>
> If I go this route, what are the best options out there? I figure top of 
> the line is Paul, but what's a more affordable brake? I see a lot of 
> chatter around Shimano CX70, but hear they're discontinued. Is there a 
> comparable option available now, or does it make sense to hunt down a used 
> set of CX70s? If I splurge on Neo Retros, am I gaining anything 
> functionally over other options?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Erik, Philly
>

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[RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[EasyRider]

Erik, 

If I understand you, what you want is a brake that will allow you to run 
wider tires than you have now, and remove your wheels without deflating 
your tires. Everyone has their favorite brake, but if it doesn't open up 
far enough to do those things, it won't be your favorite brake, right?

In other words, not every brake/tire combo may suit your purpose. For 
example, the Riv product page for the Dia-Compe 980s says, "Compared to the 
Shimano CX-50? The CX-50 is a less attractive brake, but works great and 
opens up further to let out a fatter tire easier--which is why we recommend 
this Dia-Compe for tires up to 45mm only."


Pete
Arlington, VA


On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 8:00:01 PM UTC-4, Erik Wright wrote

> I'm thinking about getting canti posts brazed onto my sidepull Sam 
> Hillborne to fit a wider tire / make wide tire installation easier. Canti 
> brakes would be replacing Paul Racers.
>
> If I go this route, what are the best options out there? I figure top of 
> the line is Paul, but what's a more affordable brake? I see a lot of 
> chatter around Shimano CX70, but hear they're discontinued. Is there a 
> comparable option available now, or does it make sense to hunt down a used 
> set of CX70s? If I splurge on Neo Retros, am I gaining anything 
> functionally over other options?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Erik, Philly
>

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[RBW] Re: Many nice Sam Hillbornes lately

[Ash]

Looks very nice!  Did not know Sam came in that color.

Question: which is that black bash guard?



On Monday, 15 April 2019 07:21:39 UTC-7, jandrews wrote:
>
> Picking up this old thread since I rebuilt the SH after pilfering most 
> parts off of it for the new Appaloosa build 
> Currently set up as 1x8 road and trail bike with Gravel King 700x43's.
> This is the very first Hillborne release from when they were green and 
> gold.
> Size 56
>
> [image: IMG_1408.jpg]
>
>

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[RBW] Re: 3x9 brifter recommendations? (Sam Hillborne 62cm, Tektro r559, noodles)

[lukeheller]

Yeah either will work. I've got a set of used 9speed 105 black shifters if 
you prefer. I'll sell them for $75 shipped

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 1:42:39 PM UTC-4, Pancake wrote:
>
> My initial best guess for dual control shifter/brakes are:
>
> (a) Shimano R3030 and R3000 brifters ($132 for the set)
> https://www.bikesale.com/shimanosorar30303x9-speedbrakeshiftleverset.aspx
>
> (b) Micronew (Microshift?) R9 controla ($72 for the set):
> https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DK73PHH
>
> Would these work? Any other suggestions?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Berthoud Saddles

[Jan Heine]

Regarding the different Berthoud models, their less-expensive saddles are 
not rebuildable. They are intended for OEM bikes in Europe, and they use 
rivets instead of their custom bolts. At Rene Herse Cycles, we only sell 
the fully rebuildable top-of-the-line models, which also seem to have the 
best leather.

What I love about Berthoud is how carefully they select the parts of the 
hide to make the tops, whereas most makers simply cut as many tops out of a 
hide as possible. Leather is a natural product, and the knowledge of how to 
orient the saddle tops on the hide so that they don't stretch or become 
lopsided is a well-guarded secret. It has been handed down by generations 
of leatherworkers from the old Idéale factory, who then helped Berthoud set 
up their saddle production more than a decade ago after the original Idéale 
production ceased.

Jan Heine
Rene Herse Cycles
Reborn in the Cascade Mountains
www.renehersecycles.com

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[RBW] Re: Berthoud Saddles

[Jan Heine]

James,

Thank you for the additional information.

I believe Proofide contains neatsfoot oil, which breaks down the leather 
fibers. We don't recommend it, because it tends to do what you describe: 
Suddenly softens the leather and then has it break down completely. I 
haven't used Proofide, so I don't know whether it affects the leather of 
Brooks saddles (which tends to be harder) than the higher-quality leather 
of the Berthoud saddles differently.

We sell Obenauf's Leather Preservative instead, which just conditions and 
waterproofs the leather without softening it.

Jan Heine
Rene Herse Cycles
Reborn in the Cascade Mountains
www.renehersecycles.com

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[RBW] Re: 3x9 brifter recommendations? (Sam Hillborne 62cm, Tektro r559, noodles)

[Pancake]

My initial best guess for dual control shifter/brakes are:

(a) Shimano R3030 and R3000 brifters ($132 for the set)
https://www.bikesale.com/shimanosorar30303x9-speedbrakeshiftleverset.aspx

(b) Micronew (Microshift?) R9 controla ($72 for the set):
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07DK73PHH

Would these work? Any other suggestions?

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[RBW] Re: fs: 50cm rivendell cheviot - orange - $2000

[Igor]

better photo
https://photos.app.goo.gl/pWQrr7ra54kbiWNs6
no rack or basket

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[RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[sameness]

Steve, are you using the Rene Herse cantilevers? Newer or older canti stud 
spacing? Did the pads align in the middle of the slots straight out of the 
gate?

Jeff Hagedorn
Los Angeles, CA USA

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[RBW] What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Ian A]

Economically/practically speaking:-

V brakes will probably offer the best stopping power, ease of set up and value. 
 Depending on what levers you use and if long pull would present an option. 
Deore level V's etc.

I have CR720 cantis on a couple of bikes and am pleased with them. Kool Stop 
pads help a lot.

IanA

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[RBW] Cleaning an older Baggins saddle bag

[ADH]

My older Baggins canvas and leather saddle bag, circa 2008, is in great 
shape but it's gotten a bit musty and dirty over the years. I want to clean 
it. Anyone know of a good method. I think the leather will be fine with a 
little Lexol. I've read up on dealing with mildew on fabric and there are 
different methods using lemon juice and salt or rubbing alcohol or oxy type 
cleaners. I'm looking for something that will clean the fabric without 
ruining the leather. Thanks

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[RBW] Re: Last Call: Parts donations for San Diego BSC hubbahubbah tandem

[tuolumne bikes]

Added some parts to list, please let me know where to send them. They are 
used, so I won't be offended if someone has new to contribute. I don't have 
the adapter bracket from the brake--needed it for the new brake. Thanks, 
Carl 

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[RBW] Re: A visit to Sea Otter with my Appaloosa

[tuolumne bikes]

Have contemplated a scaled down event for the less conventional bike world--the 
Be Odder Classic. The guy on the Schwinn would fit right in.

Carl, Columbia,CA

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[RBW] fs: 50cm rivendell cheviot - orange - $2000

[Igor]

Selling a 50cm Rivendell Cheviot.

Nitto Pearl 9 stem, I think, maybe it's the 10.
North Road bars
3x8 Sugino crankset
Shimano Sora FD, maybe it's Claris
Shimano Altus RD
Soma GR tires
Velocity hubs, Atlas rims
Women's B67S

Pedals are some sort of silver platforms

https://photos.app.goo.gl/2K7nHvXgHxXfh4UL9

Fenders are silver MKS.
It'd be a pain to ship this hence *I* don't want to and that is why price 
is $2000. I will have my local shop box it all up. If you are local to 
Michigan area and want to come pick it up, great.

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[RBW] Re: Berthoud Saddles

[James / Analog Cycles]

My experience as a retailer has been that asking manufacturers why their 
stuff is falling apart is rarely fruitful.  You mainly get denials, and 
statements like 'that's the first I've heard of it.'  I've seen this across 
frames, lights, saddles, rims, the list goes on.  I won't name names, but 
it's a common BS reaction.  In one particular case, I contacted a big 
company about carbon frames that were developing a creak in the bottom 
bracket.  They told me it was the first they'd heard of it, and told me to 
shim it with a beer can.  (press fit BB)  About a month later, the company 
was making pressfit BB's with a slightly bigger OD, so they wouldn't 
creak.  They made them in a few sizes, so as your frame wore out, you could 
stuff a bigger one in there.  An expensive beer can shim.  Anyway, I don't 
typically bother to ask a maker why something is failing.  I just stop 
using it.  And I would trade the saddle for a Brooks, if someone's wore 
out.  This was when I co-owned Gravel & Grind, so that was about 2-3 years 
ago when I was selling these.  Again, if you are using one and like it, 
great, keep at it!  I've tried every leather saddle out there, and although 
I really like many of the Berthoud features and the comfort, I'm sticking 
with Brooks.  

-James

On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 12:06:13 PM UTC-4, David Wadstrup wrote:
>
> That’s very frustrating and sad to hear. I wonder whether this is 
> something new-ish. I have 3 of their saddles and haven’t had this 
> experience. But mine were all purchased around 2015. May I ask if your 
> experiences were more recent than this?  Maybe it’s some sort of new 
> treatment of the leather. I’d, too, be interested in hearing what Berthoud 
> customer service had to say about it. 
>
> Thank you for sharing this info! 

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[RBW] Re: Berthoud Saddles

[James / Analog Cycles]

The saddles were all treated with proofide, which seems to work pretty well 
on brooks saddles.  My understanding it's a leather preservative, not a 
leather conditioner.  Pencil eraser sized glob on the bottom, one time, 
then small treatments on the top as needed.  

Regarding a bad batch, I suppose it's possible.  I've seen it with tubes.  
The leather looked great, super thick, minimal flaws. 

I'm glad so many people who have the saddles are having good luck.  I want 
Brooks to have competition!  Maybe Jan will send me another Berthoud to try 
out, ha!  

As a side note, FWIW, anytime I have written to Rene Herse/Compass to ask 
about a warranty issue, they have always hooked it up.  

-james

On Tuesday, April 9, 2019 at 8:24:45 AM UTC-4, David Wadstrup wrote:
>
> I really like Berthoud saddles.  The Mente to me is the best saddle for 
> very upright riding positions.  Mainly because I don't have to ride with 
> the nose super high like I do with the Brooks.  I also like the Aspin for 
> bikes with drop bars.  I've been wondering, though, what the 
> Soulor/Galibier is like.  It's a narrower, racier saddle.  Does anyone here 
> have any experience with this saddle?  Is it too narrow?  Noticeably less 
> comfortable than the Aspin?
>

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[RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Marc Irwin]

I've been really happy with the Velo Orange Gran Cru Zeste. 

  
I've been using them for nearly 5 years and both the stopping power and 
modulation is great.


Marc

On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 8:00:01 PM UTC-4, Erik Wright wrote:
>
> I'm thinking about getting canti posts brazed onto my sidepull Sam 
> Hillborne to fit a wider tire / make wide tire installation easier. Canti 
> brakes would be replacing Paul Racers.
>
> If I go this route, what are the best options out there? I figure top of 
> the line is Paul, but what's a more affordable brake? I see a lot of 
> chatter around Shimano CX70, but hear they're discontinued. Is there a 
> comparable option available now, or does it make sense to hunt down a used 
> set of CX70s? If I splurge on Neo Retros, am I gaining anything 
> functionally over other options?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Erik, Philly
>

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[RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[James / Analog Cycles]

I'll go out on a limb and commit heresy here.  The best current available 
Canti is a Shimano Altus or Alivio set up with Kool Stop Salmon Pads.  
They're ugly, they're tough, they're harder to adjust than a CX50, but they 
work really well and they last forever.  If you wanna get all retro, just 
get some old low profile XT brakes.  Wide profile canti's do not produce as 
much mechanical advantage / power at the rim, and so unless you wanna buy 
your brakes based on looks alone, they should be discounted.  The best 
Canti brake ever made was the Paul Stoplite, more powerful than either 
current Paul Canti.  

IRD Cafams, Paul Neo Retros, Mafac cantis, they all look great.  I love the 
way they look.  But if you just want a brake to shut up and work and be 
strong, get the Alivios!   I'd second the CX50's as the next best thing, 
after a pad swap.  Even flexy center mount center pull Racer brakes have 
more power than the wide profile design.  I switched between the two and 
was stoked by how much better the Racer felt, which is odd, given the 
flexier nature of the mounting system.  

-james

On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 8:00:01 PM UTC-4, Erik Wright wrote:
>
> I'm thinking about getting canti posts brazed onto my sidepull Sam 
> Hillborne to fit a wider tire / make wide tire installation easier. Canti 
> brakes would be replacing Paul Racers.
>
> If I go this route, what are the best options out there? I figure top of 
> the line is Paul, but what's a more affordable brake? I see a lot of 
> chatter around Shimano CX70, but hear they're discontinued. Is there a 
> comparable option available now, or does it make sense to hunt down a used 
> set of CX70s? If I splurge on Neo Retros, am I gaining anything 
> functionally over other options?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Erik, Philly
>

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Re: [RBW] Rebuilding MKS Touring Pedals

[Patrick Moore]

Here you go: one Yank and one Brit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJZexlVuH7M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5kLy97u3OI

Regreasing and adjusting Shimano cartridge bearing pedals is so much easier!

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 9:00 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I take it these are the old Touring pedal, not the more expensive and
> cartridge bearing model ...
>
> If the pedals are dry but not gritty, one option is to shoot them full of
> thick grease using a grease gun. Another is to set them on end and dribble
> heavy oil, like Phi'ls, into the, and let them sit.
>
> Are these new pedals? -- ie bearings typically overtight and underlubed?
> For years I've dribbled oil and simply ridden the bearings smooth; they
> still last a long time without need for further intervention.
>
> The processes for disassembly and re-assembly is complicated by wee little
> bearings and wee little cones and wee little locknuts, and locknuts on
> rather imprecise threads so that it's rather delicate to find the bearing
> load that doesn't become too high when tightening the locknut. Sorry, don't
> have a video to share, but the technique is the same for all loose bearing
> pedals, and any video on rebuilding these should suffice.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 8:50 AM 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Can anyone recommend a good video for rebuilding MKS Touring pedals?
>> Standard cone bearings. I don't think I need new bearings, just to open
>> them up and lube. Is that as simple as remove the end cap, insert lube,
>> replace end cap? If so, no video required. Grin.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
>> www.CatholicHalos.org
>> www.DeaconPatrick.org
>>
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>>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
>
> **
>
>
>
>
>
> *Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And
> though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the
> hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.*
> --- J.R.R. Tolkien
> ---
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching
> Other professional writing services
> Expensive! But good.
> http://www.resumespecialties.com/
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
>
>

-- 



**





*Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And
though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the
hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.*
--- J.R.R. Tolkien
---
Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching
Other professional writing services
Expensive! But good.
http://www.resumespecialties.com/
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique

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Re: [RBW] Rebuilding MKS Touring Pedals

[Patrick Moore]

I take it these are the old Touring pedal, not the more expensive and
cartridge bearing model ...

If the pedals are dry but not gritty, one option is to shoot them full of
thick grease using a grease gun. Another is to set them on end and dribble
heavy oil, like Phi'ls, into the, and let them sit.

Are these new pedals? -- ie bearings typically overtight and underlubed?
For years I've dribbled oil and simply ridden the bearings smooth; they
still last a long time without need for further intervention.

The processes for disassembly and re-assembly is complicated by wee little
bearings and wee little cones and wee little locknuts, and locknuts on
rather imprecise threads so that it's rather delicate to find the bearing
load that doesn't become too high when tightening the locknut. Sorry, don't
have a video to share, but the technique is the same for all loose bearing
pedals, and any video on rebuilding these should suffice.


On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 8:50 AM 'Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Can anyone recommend a good video for rebuilding MKS Touring pedals?
> Standard cone bearings. I don't think I need new bearings, just to open
> them up and lube. Is that as simple as remove the end cap, insert lube,
> replace end cap? If so, no video required. Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
> www.CatholicHalos.org
> www.DeaconPatrick.org
>
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--- J.R.R. Tolkien
---
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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[George Schick]

One thing I found out the hard way about these threadless jobs - if you buy 
one that's cheap, you may also wind up with one that's low quality making 
it difficult, if not impossible, to adjust properly. I had a MTB that came 
with a threadless that was constantly loose all the time, no matter how 
carefully I tried to adjust it.  I finally removed the stem and took some 
careful measurements of everything with a digital caliper.  Turned out that 
the part of the stem that clamped around the steering tube was imperfectly 
made so that the bottom edges that sit on top of the headset bearing 
cartridge wouldn't line up evenly when tightened, therefore allowing the 
fork to wobble.  I replaced that stem with a higher quality (Ritchey) and 
everything has been perfectly smooth ever since.

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 9:12:22 AM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Frequency? All the threadless headsets I've owned kept their adjustment at 
> least as well as all the threaded ones I've used; and setting pre-load is 
> far easier than setting bearing load on a threaded system and keeping it 
> set while tightening the locknut.
>
> Patrick: threadless systems certainly have their disadvantages -- largely 
> that it's harder to adjust bar height -- but overall they are a heck of a 
> lot easier to adjust than threaded ones.
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 9:49 PM hugh flynn  > wrote:
>
>> The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it is 
>> astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...
>>
>> That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency 
>> with which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded 
>> headset adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when 
>> changing or adjusting a quill stem.
>>
>> Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
>> Newburyport, MA
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:07 PM Drw > 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yes. This is what kept me away from threadless for so long. It seemed so 
>>> complicated based on descriptions. In reality it’s super simple. So much so 
>>> that I questioned what I was doing the first few times. “Is the stem bolt 
>>> actually holding the fork on the bike?” Still runs thru my head. 
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com .
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>>>
>> -- 
>> Hugh Flynn
>> Newburyport, MA
>>
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>
>
> -- 
>
>
>
>
> **
>
>
>
>
>
> *Still 'round the corner there may waitA new road or a secret gate,And 
> though we pass them by today,Tomorrow we may come this wayAnd take the 
> hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.*
> --- J.R.R. Tolkien
> ---
> Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews
> By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching
> Other professional writing services
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> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
>
>

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[RBW] Rebuilding MKS Touring Pedals

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Can anyone recommend a good video for rebuilding MKS Touring pedals? Standard 
cone bearings. I don't think I need new bearings, just to open them up and 
lube. Is that as simple as remove the end cap, insert lube, replace end cap? If 
so, no video required. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

www.MindYourHeadCoop.org
www.CatholicHalos.org
www.DeaconPatrick.org

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Patrick Moore]

I get it; sorry, Hugh, I misunderstood. Yes, headset adjustment is rarely
needed for either type once done correctly.

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 8:20 AM Steve Palincsar  wrote:

> Which is to say, headsets very seldom need to be adjusted.  Which indeed
> is Hugh's point: you may size time adjusting, but since you do it so
> infrequently in the big picture the savings are inconsequential.
>
> It's the same thing with coding: you optimize code in an inner loop, that
> executes a lot, not code that executes only once each time the program runs.
>
>
> On 4/15/19 10:12 AM, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Frequency? All the threadless headsets I've owned kept their adjustment at
> least as well as all the threaded ones I've used; and setting pre-load is
> far easier than setting bearing load on a threaded system and keeping it
> set while tightening the locknut.
>
> Patrick: threadless systems certainly have their disadvantages -- largely
> that it's harder to adjust bar height -- but overall they are a heck of a
> lot easier to adjust than threaded ones.
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 9:49 PM hugh flynn  wrote:
>
>> The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it is
>> astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...
>>
>> That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency
>> with which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded
>> headset adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when
>> changing or adjusting a quill stem.
>>
>> Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
>> Newburyport, MA
>> --
>>
>
>
> --
> Steve Palincsar
> Alexandria, Virginia
> USA
>
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hidden paths that runTowards the Moon or to the Sun.*
--- J.R.R. Tolkien
---
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Re: [RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Steve Palincsar]

On 4/15/19 9:53 AM, Dave Grossman wrote:

Hey Erik,

You are going to get a million opinions but Pauls are really easier 
than all other canti's to setup.  The mechanism they use to control 
spring tension is just so easy to adjust. I also think getting some 
good Kool Stop pads makes a huge difference.




No adjustment required and no mechanism for adjustment because none is 
required beats Paul's system every time.


Image result for rene herse cantilever brake


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Jonathan K.]

I haven't used the pricier cantilevers from Rene Herse or Paul, so I can't 
compare to those, but I did install a new set of CX50s on my Sam. They work 
great. I had been running a set of Avid V brakes, and switched solely 
because I wanted to use different set of levers that worked better with my 
Albastache bars. The CX50s were easy to set up and stop every bit as well 
as the v brakes they replaced. They have a much better feel at the lever, 
though, compared to the v brakes. 

It is my understanding that the only difference between the CX50 and CX70 
are the color and the included pad holder on the CX70. So, you could 
essentially turn the 50 into a 70 by purchasing a pad holder after the 
original pads wear out.

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Re: [RBW] Medium Saddlesack Side Pockets

[John McBurney]

I looked at it today and think 2 tubes in boxes would fit fine. I’ll try to
take a picture and sent that after work.

John

On Mon, Apr 15, 2019 at 1:22 AM 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> John
>
> Yes, 700x32 size tube.  Sorry about neglecting to mention tube size
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Sunday, April 14, 2019 at 8:55:57 PM UTC-4, John McBurney wrote:
>>
>> I’ll check but I’m pretty sure. The side pockets are big. What size tube?
>> 700x32?
>>
>> John
>>
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Steve Palincsar]

On 4/15/19 10:11 AM, 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
Try changing the height of your bars on the road with a threadless 
stem. If you set it up correctly (extra length in the steerer+ extra 
spacers), it can be done ... but it will take ten times longer than 
with a quill stem.



Yes, and it'll require a headset adjustment too.




OTOH, it’s impossible to get a threadless stem stuck inside the 
steerer, which has happened on several of my standard-quill bikes.



Trade-offs.  Life is full of trade-offs.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Steve Palincsar]

Which is to say, headsets very seldom need to be adjusted.  Which indeed 
is Hugh's point: you may size time adjusting, but since you do it so 
infrequently in the big picture the savings are inconsequential.


It's the same thing with coding: you optimize code in an inner loop, 
that executes a lot, not code that executes only once each time the 
program runs.



On 4/15/19 10:12 AM, Patrick Moore wrote:
Frequency? All the threadless headsets I've owned kept their 
adjustment at least as well as all the threaded ones I've used; and 
setting pre-load is far easier than setting bearing load on a threaded 
system and keeping it set while tightening the locknut.


Patrick: threadless systems certainly have their disadvantages -- 
largely that it's harder to adjust bar height -- but overall they are 
a heck of a lot easier to adjust than threaded ones.


On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 9:49 PM hugh flynn > wrote:


The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great
that it is astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...

That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the
frequency with which one has to do it. For all the claimed
complexity of threaded headset adjustmemt, one doesn't have to
fiddle with headset preload when changing or adjusting a quill stem.

Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
Newburyport, MA
-- 





--
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Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Patrick Moore]

Frequency? All the threadless headsets I've owned kept their adjustment at
least as well as all the threaded ones I've used; and setting pre-load is
far easier than setting bearing load on a threaded system and keeping it
set while tightening the locknut.

Patrick: threadless systems certainly have their disadvantages -- largely
that it's harder to adjust bar height -- but overall they are a heck of a
lot easier to adjust than threaded ones.

On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 9:49 PM hugh flynn  wrote:

> The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it is
> astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...
>
> That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency
> with which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded
> headset adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when
> changing or adjusting a quill stem.
>
> Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
> Newburyport, MA
>
> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:07 PM Drw  wrote:
>
>> Yes. This is what kept me away from threadless for so long. It seemed so
>> complicated based on descriptions. In reality it’s super simple. So much so
>> that I questioned what I was doing the first few times. “Is the stem bolt
>> actually holding the fork on the bike?” Still runs thru my head.
>>
>> --
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> --
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> Newburyport, MA
>
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---
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Re: [RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Try changing the height of your bars on the road with a threadless stem. If you 
set it up correctly (extra length in the steerer+ extra spacers), it can be 
done ... but it will take ten times longer than with a quill stem.

OTOH, it’s impossible to get a threadless stem stuck inside the steerer, which 
has happened on several of my standard-quill bikes.

Eric N
www.CampyOnly.com
CampyOnlyGuy.blogspot.com
Twitter: @CampyOnlyGuy

> On Apr 14, 2019, at 8:49 PM, hugh flynn  wrote:
> 
> The ease of adjustment for threadless stems is indeed so great that it is 
> astounding how hard it can be to describe properly...
> 
> That said, the gains offered by simplicity are offset by the frequency with 
> which one has to do it. For all the claimed complexity of threaded headset 
> adjustmemt, one doesn't have to fiddle with headset preload when changing or 
> adjusting a quill stem.
> 
> Hugh "net gain is null" Flynn
> Newburyport, MA
> 
>> On Sun, Apr 14, 2019 at 11:07 PM Drw  wrote:
>> Yes. This is what kept me away from threadless for so long. It seemed so 
>> complicated based on descriptions. In reality it’s super simple. So much so 
>> that I questioned what I was doing the first few times. “Is the stem bolt 
>> actually holding the fork on the bike?” Still runs thru my head. 
>> 
>> -- 
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> -- 
> Hugh Flynn
> Newburyport, MA
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Re: [RBW] What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Patrick Moore]

I'm curious about others' opinions about the IRD Cafam/Cafam2. I've used a
fair number of cantis, have never been able to set them up well with drop
levers myself (a deficiency shared by some of the local shops I've used; so
perhaps the fault lies in some of the designs), but the best brakes I can
remember using were the IRDs set up by Rivendell staff with salmon Kool
Stop pads on my Sam Hillborne. For power, modulation, and feel, these were
near perfect -- and I have used many types and brands of brakes.

I seem to recall that adjusting pads on these IRDs was no more difficult
than XT or Dia Compe cantis of the ealy 90s.

Opinions?

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[RBW] Re: What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Dave Grossman]

Hey Erik,

You are going to get a million opinions but Pauls are really easier than 
all other canti's to setup.  The mechanism they use to control spring 
tension is just so easy to adjust.  I also think getting some good Kool 
Stop pads makes a huge difference.

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[RBW] Re: bike swap find

[Wally Estrella]

If a volunteer snapped it up on Friday night it still should be on the sold 
list.  It was listed @ 56 and asking $1055.  Hopefully the seller will 
throw it on CL or eBay.  Or it'll find its way to this group and be posted 
for sale.

On Monday, April 15, 2019 at 8:30:24 AM UTC-4, Christopher Cote wrote:
>
> Wow! I'm glad I wasn't there, as it looks close to my size, and I do not 
> need a single speed, but wow. I pulled up the sold list for the swap, and I 
> don't see it listed. I wonder if it didn't sell, or got snapped up by a 
> volunteer. Hmm...
>
> Chris
>

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Re: [RBW] What're the best cantilever brakes out there?

[Steve Palincsar]

I'd be very surprised indeed if the cx70 had more power than the Rene 
Herse cantilever.  The low profile design is noted for losing power as 
the pads get closer to the rim.


Low profile cantilevers like this are very sensitive to straddle cable 
adjustment, whereas mid-profile cantilevers like the Herse brake are 
insensitive to it.  All the complex documentation about canti adjustment 
is based on the low profile design's sensitivity to height of the 
straddle cable support.  None of that is applicable to the Herse design.


In both these cases, it should be noted, the straddle cable length isn't 
adjustable per se; with the Shimano style various lengths of straddle 
cable are available. A longer straddle cable was promised at one point 
for the Herse brake, for special applications, but I'm not sure if it's 
been made available yet, as I don't see such a thing listed on their web 
site.


As for ease of setup, the Herse brake isn't like some smooth post 
cantilever brakes.  Yes there is one nut holding the post in place and 
on loosening the bolt you can slide the pad in and out, rotate it and 
tilt it.  But it's not quite like some, where undoing that one nut 
loosens everything - vertical, toe, and all the rest. There is no 
vertical adjustment, and toe is set either permanently once by bending, 
or using a notched washer.  There also is no adjustment for spring tension.



On 4/15/19 12:59 AM, Drw wrote:

Oh man,
Those compass ones look super nice but I’d take the setup and power of the 
cx70/50 any day over those any day. I’m no expert mechanic but I’ve used cantis 
that with the way the compass ones do and, for me, they are a big pain. At this 
point I


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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[RBW] bike swap find

[Christopher Cote]

Wow! I'm glad I wasn't there, as it looks close to my size, and I do not need a 
single speed, but wow. I pulled up the sold list for the swap, and I don't see 
it listed. I wonder if it didn't sell, or got snapped up by a volunteer. Hmm...

Chris

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[RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

['Tom M' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Great video; thanks for the link.
Tom
Alexandira, VA

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[RBW] Re: Threadless Headset Questions

[Garth]

DP, this video may assist you. The fellow named WheeliePete from YT has a 
way of explaining the whole threadless system in an easy to understand 
fashion, complete with hand drawn blueprint of "how it works".   This is 
what I do appreciate about YT, the guys who post how-to videos in easily 
understandable manners.  Reminds me of my brother, a former military and 
airline flight mechanic who can simplify literally anything, as really 
everything is basically doohickeys we play around with. Adults give them 
important names and such and make them "big deals" for gain, kids call know 
them as toys and just play with them for the fun of fun ! 


   I've never had a threadless HS, and after watching this it's like, "oh, 
that was simple".   Threaded HS are also simple in their own way. Using 
lock nuts wasn't the only way . American Classic once made their Trilock HS 
that used a threaded collet and a 2.5mm wrench to adjust it. It was 
wonderfully simple but aluminum was not a good choice for the collet as it 
would crack over time. 

>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LTCthtmjD0


  

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