[RBW] Re: New ROADEO

[Brian Campbell]

I have a Waterford AHH and A Nobilette Legolas. The Legolas simply 
fantastic.


On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 10:20:46 PM UTC-5, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> When I got my Nobilette Legolas, I asked myself "why don't they have Nobi 
> build the Roadeo also?"  I don't think Waterford has historically treated 
> Rivendell all that well, and I try to avoid Waterford Rivendells for that 
> reason, purely spite.  I'll seriously think about upgrading my Waterford 
> Roadeo to a Nobilette Roadeo.  Let me know if you are dying for a 59.  I'd 
> pay $1000 for the karma upgrade, so $1800 shipped for my Waterford Roadeo 
> frame fork and chris king headset.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:04:03 PM UTC-8, Jock Dewey wrote:
>>
>> Hey, Y'all:
>>
>> Pic of new Nobilette ROADEO on the site, with RH crankset and RH tires. 
>> So there ya go!
>>
>> All good, right?
>>
>> Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: New ROADEO

[Bill Lindsay]

When I got my Nobilette Legolas, I asked myself "why don't they have Nobi 
build the Roadeo also?"  I don't think Waterford has historically treated 
Rivendell all that well, and I try to avoid Waterford Rivendells for that 
reason, purely spite.  I'll seriously think about upgrading my Waterford 
Roadeo to a Nobilette Roadeo.  Let me know if you are dying for a 59.  I'd 
pay $1000 for the karma upgrade, so $1800 shipped for my Waterford Roadeo 
frame fork and chris king headset.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:04:03 PM UTC-8, Jock Dewey wrote:
>
> Hey, Y'all:
>
> Pic of new Nobilette ROADEO on the site, with RH crankset and RH tires. So 
> there ya go!
>
> All good, right?
>
> Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>

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Re: [RBW] FS Medium Olive Sackville Saddlesack

[tom horton]

john, I think it is sold, but if not you’ll be first on the list.  thanks for 
the interest.  tom horton



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[RBW] New ROADEO

[Eamon Nordquist]

That bike is the business. Love it with the Rene Herse tires and crank. Only 
thing I’d add if it was mine is a dynohub. I can’t afford any bike right now, 
but that’s a good price for a Mark Nobilette made bike.

Eamon
Seattle 

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Re: [RBW] Re: daily post ur riv

[Patrick Moore]

Nice! I know my '92 would not take tires so wide. Substituting cantis for
the calipers was the right thing to do for 1993.

I don't get "squirmy." Can you elaborate? My 1992 handled like an
unexceptional road bike; decent, but not outstanding; and of course, with
57 mm max reach calipers, it wouldn't take more than a 35 mm or so tire;
which of course meant that it wasn't so great, either, in our sandy dirt
roads. I've since had 3 26" wheel custom Riv Roads, and those don't feel
"squirmy" either in any meaning of that word that I can think of.

I did my own modest PB for speed over 30 miles on my hot rodded '92,
tricked out with Topline Superlight 48/38/28 triple, almost straight block
12-19 7 speed, purple anodized Sun M14A lightweight rims, and Specialized
26 X 1 Turbos,* drop bar Grip Shift, and X-1 pedals.

After I got my first 26" Riv Road in 1995, I converted the XO to commuting
duties with 35 mm (32 actual; + fenders) Tioga City Slickers, a 26.4 Giro
d'Italia crammed into a 25.4 Tioga TBone stem, a rear rack, and two (2)
heavy Nightrider Cyclops battery-powered halogen lights (poor night vision)
that alltogether must have weighed 6 lb. I sold it once I got the 1999 Road
and turned the 1995 into a commuter.

*These were actually very nice tires except for their width -- nice,
supple, fast, and I never got a pinch flat, even at 80/90 (I'm 170-175) and
even withh 35 lb loads in back after I installed a rear rack; and I rode
over some bad pavement, too.

On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 4:42 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:

>
>
> On Thursday, 9 January 2020 08:47:14 UTC-8, Paul Clifton wrote:
>>
>> Jason, is that XO-1 swoopy or carvy or whatever?
>>
>
> I would say no, the XO-1 doesn't swoop / carve, it rides much more like a
> traditional road bike - except extra squirmy due to the small rotational
> inertia.  It has its own balance, and is fun to ride, but lacks the refined
> feeling of a modern Riv. It IS quick though! Would be my go-to for faster
> paced club rides, if I did that sort of thing.
>
> Here's one of today's commute, 21km each way taking this route but it's
> lovely. Today was a rare clear day, but frosty (just a degree or two below
> freezing)
>
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> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] FS Medium Olive Sackville Saddlesack

[John Rinker]

Hey Tom. I’m interested. Not sure how to PM here. Cheers. 

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[RBW] Re: New ROADEO

[Clayton.sf]

Love the tires. Not a fan of the cranks at all.

Clayton Scott
SF, CA

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:04:03 PM UTC-8, Jock Dewey wrote:
>
> Hey, Y'all:
>
> Pic of new Nobilette ROADEO on the site, with RH crankset and RH tires. So 
> there ya go!
>
> All good, right?
>
> Jock Dewey / Athens, GA
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Leah Peterson]

Yes, Bill, I agree there is something to the feeling of whatever you rode last 
was “right.” You’re also right that it’s nice to let your bikes serve purposes 
instead of making them all alike. You would not believe how hard it was (is?) 
to get this through my skull.

I am paring down to be Two-Bike-Leah and just need to know which bikes to sell. 
I was planning on getting the new model Cheviot and selling the Clementine and 
the Betz, but I need to see how looonnnggg the new Chev will be. If it’s too 
Clem-like, I may not purchase one. But I do love a Rivendell mixte. Especially 
if I can get RED.

Sent from my iPad

> On Jan 9, 2020, at 3:43 PM, Bill Schairer  wrote:
> 
> Leah,
> I rotate riding between about 4 bikes on a fairly regular basis.  They all 
> feel a bit different.  The last one I’ve been riding on a regular basis is 
> usually the one I think I like best when I switch to another until the next 
> one becomes the most regular at which point it becomes my favorite.
> 
> Interesting, to me anyways, my 1982 Trek 720 has a longer wheelbase than my 
> 2014? Atlantis.  Longer wheelbases aren’t necessarily a new thing I guess.  I 
> think they both may feel “swoopy” compared to my others but it is not a 
> feeling I particularly like.  Without a doubt, of the 4 bikes, it is the one 
> with the shortest wheelbase that feels the most rock solid.  The bike just 
> seems to know where I want to go and there it goes without effort so, I think 
> there is a whole lot more going on than wheelbase when it comes to these 
> things.  It was this discussion that got me out measuring.  It has never 
> actually been something I paid a whole lot of attention to.
> 
> I have also come to realize that which tires I’m riding can have a rather 
> dramatic effect on the handling.  I have noticed this the most on the 
> Atlantis.
> 
> At any rate, I enjoy changing it up and having a “new” feel.  I’ve also tried 
> to make each bike have its own main purpose.  After having been really a one 
> bike guy for most of my life, this has been a lot of fun and admittedly 
> indulgent. Maybe something to give you a different perspective on the whole 
> thing?
> 
> Bill S
> 
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[RBW] New ROADEO

[Jock Dewey]

Hey, Y'all:

Pic of new Nobilette ROADEO on the site, with RH crankset and RH tires. So 
there ya go!

All good, right?

Jock Dewey / Athens, GA

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Bill Schairer]

Leah,
I rotate riding between about 4 bikes on a fairly regular basis.  They all feel 
a bit different.  The last one I’ve been riding on a regular basis is usually 
the one I think I like best when I switch to another until the next one becomes 
the most regular at which point it becomes my favorite.

Interesting, to me anyways, my 1982 Trek 720 has a longer wheelbase than my 
2014? Atlantis.  Longer wheelbases aren’t necessarily a new thing I guess.  I 
think they both may feel “swoopy” compared to my others but it is not a feeling 
I particularly like.  Without a doubt, of the 4 bikes, it is the one with the 
shortest wheelbase that feels the most rock solid.  The bike just seems to know 
where I want to go and there it goes without effort so, I think there is a 
whole lot more going on than wheelbase when it comes to these things.  It was 
this discussion that got me out measuring.  It has never actually been 
something I paid a whole lot of attention to.

I have also come to realize that which tires I’m riding can have a rather 
dramatic effect on the handling.  I have noticed this the most on the Atlantis.

At any rate, I enjoy changing it up and having a “new” feel.  I’ve also tried 
to make each bike have its own main purpose.  After having been really a one 
bike guy for most of my life, this has been a lot of fun and admittedly 
indulgent. Maybe something to give you a different perspective on the whole 
thing?

Bill S

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Swift Zeitgeist Saddle Bag, Nitto Rear Racks

[Andre Rosario]

Update: all items have been sold. Thanks to everyone.

Jed, for future reference, as far as I can tell the two racks are functionally 
very similar, and the big read is only very  slightly bigger, so I don’t see 
any reason why it wouldn’t work on a frame with 26” wheels. Both are very stout 
and designed to accommodate all manner of panniers. Others on here have lots of 
experience with them, so maybe they’ll have more to add.

Best luck and happy trails.

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[RBW] Re: 1/1/20 Blahg

[BSWP]

I also enjoyed the new years day blahg... rambling, informative, 
entertaining. I think I need some new fidget gadgets on my desk...

I have two bikes right now, QuickBeam (shift by loosening two 15mm nuts and 
sliding the axle or flopping the wheel) and LongLow (friction-mode Shimano 
105 barends to a fine six-speed freewheel and front triple). For me, 
friction shifting keeps me in tune with the bike, which I like. The rubbing 
front der or rumbling rear cogs tell me I need to nudge the lever just a 
wee bit more, and I appreciate the communication. But that's me, the 
connection with the components is part of the ride, and part of why I ride.

Now, on the new frame, still waiting to be built, I have a Rohloff rear 
hub, so it's going to be a purely indexed shifter, the big collar to turn. 
Thinking to mount it on the stem... there will be learning involved, and I 
look forward to that, too.

- Andrew, Berkeley

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[RBW] WTB - Nitto lugged Seat post 27.2 for my Quickbeam

[Jason Braaten]

Anyone selling a Nitto Lugged steatpost, 27.2?  Need On for my Quickbeam. 
 Message me if selling.
Thanks!!

Jason Braaten
Brick, NJ

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[RBW] Re: Velocity Quill experiences?

[Adam Leibow]

I am using the quill rims on my 2018 canti sam. the rims are great looking 
and i dont worry about them ever. the wheelset rides wonderfully. would 
recommend but probably wouldnt exceed a 48mm tire on it. in my eyes this is 
a slightly beefed road rim.  

On Friday, January 3, 2020 at 6:50:04 PM UTC-8, tc wrote:
>
> I now have a 62 MIT Atlantis frame.  I'm gonna order a new Rich-built 
> wheelset for it.  Velocity Quill?  Cliffhanger?  
>
> I'm leaning toward Quill because they fit a wider range of tires, esp. 
> narrower ones in case I want to go crazy and fender it.  Also, Quills are 
> lighter by a pound, seem to be strong enough (I'm not gonna tour with heavy 
> loads).  Jan's article, "Myth 18: Wide Tires Need Wide Rims 
> " 
> started me on this path.  A chart in that article says a 21mm inside width 
> (what the Quill has) should be able to handle a 64mm ((!) tire ... though 
> Velocity recommends up to 47...which seems very conservative to me.  I'm 
> running Dyads and 2.1 Nano's on my Toyo Atlantis...super combination.  
>
> I won't be putting a 64 tire on a Quill, but will think strongly about the 
> 55 Antelope Hills.  Also have some 29x2 G-One Speeds to consider.
>
> Anyone have any experience with Quills?
>
> Thanks,
> Tom
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Steve Cole]

Matt,

No doubt your height affects the feeling of any bike you ride.  I was a tad 
surprised at your statement  that 61 and 62 cm frames fit you.  My surprise 
is related to my recent experience purchasing an MIT Atlantis.  I already 
own both a Homer (59 cm) and a Simpleton (58 cm) and thought, naturally, 
that the 59 cm MIT Atlantis would be perfect, especially since I love 
virtually everything about my Homer.  In a word, I was WRONG.  With the 
more stretched out geometry of the MIT Atlantis and the greater angle of 
the top tube, It turns out I had erred when I purchased a 59 cm Atlantis 
(from a fellow lister who cry kindly returned by payment before I received 
the frame).  I would note that I love the look of the 59 cm MIT Atlantis 
with its arched double top tube.  Alas, a slightly less beautiful 55 cm 
(700c), which I am assured is spot on for size, is being built up for me. 
 I can't wait to get it, ride it and see whether I no longer look to my 
Homer as my daily driver.  Good luck.

Steve Cole
Arlington, VA

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 2:39:03 PM UTC-7, Matt Dreher wrote:
>
> Fair, I was a bit rushed writing that. I think it's a sort of a modern 
> vernacular thing, using 'you' where one should really be using 'one.' This 
> should make it clearer.
>
> *I don't buy the line that wheelbase doesn't affect handling 
> significantly. I have an 90s road bike with 41cm stays that's exhausting to 
> spend a long while on. The handling feels significantly more confident to 
> me on that bike. I know that one can take the same lines but taking the 
> same line on the long-stayed bike requires a good bit more lean than the 
> other. It makes me a lot more hesitant to take corners as quickly on loose 
> surfaces. Of course once I've lost traction it's easier to control and 
> recover from skids with long chainstays but I'd rather not lose traction in 
> the first place.*
>
>
> Something I've considered that may be coloring my perceptions: my height. 
> I'm 6'5", proportioned just so that 61 to 62cm frames are what fits me 
> right. Leaning further when one is tall must necessarily put more lateral 
> force on the tire, right? It seems that there's just more at stake when 
> your center of mass is further from the ground. Long wheelbases mean that 
> you necessarily must lean further. Maybe the confidence I feel on the SWB 
> bike is just a matter of not having to dig as far into my reserve of grip?
>
> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 1:42:11 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Hey Matt! I got confused in your middle paragraph. Too many pronouns that 
>> seem reversed of what I thought you were saying for me to follow. Would you 
>> mind clarifying please?
>>
>> I've not heard anyone say wheelbase doesn't affect handling, 
>> significantly or otherwise. The entire experience I've had with longer 
>> wheel base is significantly better handling. It DOES require adjustment and 
>> different lines. There may be a learning curve, but a sharp lad could 
>> easily suss that out and not need to slow down, and likely go yet faster if 
>> desired. Grin.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 12:25:24 PM UTC-7, Matt Dreher wrote:
>>>
>>> I finally concluded that the chainstays on my 61 Roadini are just a hair 
>>> too long at 46cm. I'm not opposed to longer chainstays, it's just that it 
>>> would be nice if there were a Rivendell option other than the Roadeo that 
>>> had slightly more traditional road geometry. If they had capped it at 44cm 
>>> for the large sizes or specced horizontal dropouts to allow a bit of 
>>> adjustability I probably wouldn't have a real issue with it. 
>>>
>>> I don't buy the line that wheelbase doesn't affect handling 
>>> significantly. I have an 90s road bike with 41cm stays that's exhausting to 
>>> spend a long while on. The handling feels significantly more confident to 
>>> me on that bike. I know that you can take the same lines but taking the 
>>> same line on the long-stayed bike requires a good bit more lean than the 
>>> other. It makes me a lot more hesitant to take corners as quickly on loose 
>>> surfaces. Of course once you've lost traction it's easier to control and 
>>> recover from skids with long chainstays but I'd rather not lose traction in 
>>> the first place, you know?
>>>
>>> As someone who adjusts their bars below the saddle I'm also not really 
>>> representative of the typical Rivendell rider, though. I suppose that at 
>>> this point complaining about no shorter-chainstay'd Rivendells is like 
>>> complaining that Cervelo doesn't have a steel option any more. Both 
>>> companies once had the option for it but the type of riders they're 
>>> intended for necessarily led them away from that.
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Patrick Moore]

Do let us know how the Black Mountain compares to the Roadini.

On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 2:50 PM Matt Dreher <99m...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Whoops, didn't see this before the reply went through.
>
> Yes, chainstays aren't the whole story. Front end geometry is a big deal
> for sure but in turns above 20mph where the wheel is deflected less I think
> the other elements of the geometry start to make themselves known. Not
> scientific, just a certain feeling I get,
>
> Well, here'll be an interesting experiment. I'm currently building up a
> 43cm Black Mtn. Monstercross. As you can see from bikeinsights here
> 
> it has 43cm stays, 17mm higher bottom bracket, but a pretty similar
> front-end geometry with slightly higher trail. I'll be migrating the
> wheelset from my Roadini so it'll be as neutral a comparison as one can
> really get without making a whole new frame.
>
> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 3:36:08 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> Matt: First, this is a question, not a contradiction
>>
>> I don't doubt that significantly lengthening chainstays affects ride, but
>> do a couple of cm in the stays affect steering as much as you say? I ask
>> because I've had several (6 -- I keep updating this number; at least 6 )
>> bikes with 44-45 cm stays, and many others with 42-43 cm stays, and at
>> least as far as my memories go, I don't recall that all the longer stayed
>> bikes were slower to turn than all of the shorter stayed bikes; or that all
>> the shorter stayed bikes were faster than all the etc etc. In fact, some of
>> the longer stayed bikes turned more quickly -- "felt more nimble" -- while
>> at least 1 of the short-stayed bikes (and, come to think of it, this one
>> may have had 40 or 39 cm stays -- old Schwinn Tempon; could cram a 25mm
>> tire in there only after taking a gentle hammer to the st bridge) handled
>> very sweetly; better, or at least more to my taste, than 2 of those with
>> 44/45 stays, and some with 42 cm stays handled more sedately than others
>> with the longer stays.
>>
>> Comparing all of these bikes in memory (well, not entirely in memory,
>> since I still have 2 of the 44/45s), their handling is all over the place,
>> so cs length is apparently not a sole determining factor in overall
>> handling experience. Other factors in my own experience are wheel diameter,
>> head angle, wheel weight, and tire width.
>>
>> Funny: I owned a first edition Sam Hill, and that did indeed exhibit the
>> "swoopy" feel that someone else described, but IMO, too much so, in that,
>> while it "carved a turn" so very nicely, once it was in the turn, it was
>> hard to adjust your line -- a quality that I did not like, as exhibited on
>> that bike. OTOH, one reason I didn't like the Herse was that it *didn't*
>> "carve a turn" as much as I like; it felt vague in turns. My 2 remaining
>> custom Roads give me, at least, exactly the balance between "natural" turn
>> in and "ease of adjustment." My first custom Road was *very slightly*
>> too twitchy. All these Roads use light, small 24" to 25" diameter wheels
>> (559 or 571, 24 3/4" with the 559 X 28 Elk Passes).
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 12:25 PM Matt Dreher <99m...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I finally concluded that the chainstays on my 61 Roadini are just a hair
>>> too long at 46cm. I'm not opposed to longer chainstays, it's just that it
>>> would be nice if there were a Rivendell option other than the Roadeo that
>>> had slightly more traditional road geometry. If they had capped it at 44cm
>>> for the large sizes or specced horizontal dropouts to allow a bit of
>>> adjustability I probably wouldn't have a real issue with it.
>>>
>>> I don't buy the line that wheelbase doesn't affect handling
>>> significantly. I have an 90s road bike with 41cm stays that's exhausting to
>>> spend a long while on. The handling feels significantly more confident to
>>> me on that bike. I know that you can take the same lines but taking the
>>> same line on the long-stayed bike requires a good bit more lean than the
>>> other. It makes me a lot more hesitant to take corners as quickly on loose
>>> surfaces. Of course once you've lost traction it's easier to control and
>>> recover from skids with long chainstays but I'd rather not lose traction in
>>> the first place, you know?
>>>
>>> As someone who adjusts their bars below the saddle I'm also not really
>>> representative of the typical Rivendell rider, though. I suppose that at
>>> this point complaining about no shorter-chainstay'd Rivendells is like
>>> complaining that Cervelo doesn't have a steel option any more. Both
>>> companies once had the option for it but the type of riders they're
>>> intended for necessarily led them away from that.
>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop 

Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Matt Dreher]

Whoops, didn't see this before the reply went through.

Yes, chainstays aren't the whole story. Front end geometry is a big deal 
for sure but in turns above 20mph where the wheel is deflected less I think 
the other elements of the geometry start to make themselves known. Not 
scientific, just a certain feeling I get,

Well, here'll be an interesting experiment. I'm currently building up a 
43cm Black Mtn. Monstercross. As you can see from bikeinsights here 

 
it has 43cm stays, 17mm higher bottom bracket, but a pretty similar 
front-end geometry with slightly higher trail. I'll be migrating the 
wheelset from my Roadini so it'll be as neutral a comparison as one can 
really get without making a whole new frame.

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 3:36:08 PM UTC-6, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Matt: First, this is a question, not a contradiction
>
> I don't doubt that significantly lengthening chainstays affects ride, but 
> do a couple of cm in the stays affect steering as much as you say? I ask 
> because I've had several (6 -- I keep updating this number; at least 6 ) 
> bikes with 44-45 cm stays, and many others with 42-43 cm stays, and at 
> least as far as my memories go, I don't recall that all the longer stayed 
> bikes were slower to turn than all of the shorter stayed bikes; or that all 
> the shorter stayed bikes were faster than all the etc etc. In fact, some of 
> the longer stayed bikes turned more quickly -- "felt more nimble" -- while 
> at least 1 of the short-stayed bikes (and, come to think of it, this one 
> may have had 40 or 39 cm stays -- old Schwinn Tempon; could cram a 25mm 
> tire in there only after taking a gentle hammer to the st bridge) handled 
> very sweetly; better, or at least more to my taste, than 2 of those with 
> 44/45 stays, and some with 42 cm stays handled more sedately than others 
> with the longer stays.
>
> Comparing all of these bikes in memory (well, not entirely in memory, 
> since I still have 2 of the 44/45s), their handling is all over the place, 
> so cs length is apparently not a sole determining factor in overall 
> handling experience. Other factors in my own experience are wheel diameter, 
> head angle, wheel weight, and tire width.
>
> Funny: I owned a first edition Sam Hill, and that did indeed exhibit the 
> "swoopy" feel that someone else described, but IMO, too much so, in that, 
> while it "carved a turn" so very nicely, once it was in the turn, it was 
> hard to adjust your line -- a quality that I did not like, as exhibited on 
> that bike. OTOH, one reason I didn't like the Herse was that it *didn't* 
> "carve a turn" as much as I like; it felt vague in turns. My 2 remaining 
> custom Roads give me, at least, exactly the balance between "natural" turn 
> in and "ease of adjustment." My first custom Road was *very slightly* too 
> twitchy. All these Roads use light, small 24" to 25" diameter wheels (559 
> or 571, 24 3/4" with the 559 X 28 Elk Passes).
>
> On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 12:25 PM Matt Dreher <99m...@gmail.com 
> > wrote:
>
>> I finally concluded that the chainstays on my 61 Roadini are just a hair 
>> too long at 46cm. I'm not opposed to longer chainstays, it's just that it 
>> would be nice if there were a Rivendell option other than the Roadeo that 
>> had slightly more traditional road geometry. If they had capped it at 44cm 
>> for the large sizes or specced horizontal dropouts to allow a bit of 
>> adjustability I probably wouldn't have a real issue with it. 
>>
>> I don't buy the line that wheelbase doesn't affect handling 
>> significantly. I have an 90s road bike with 41cm stays that's exhausting to 
>> spend a long while on. The handling feels significantly more confident to 
>> me on that bike. I know that you can take the same lines but taking the 
>> same line on the long-stayed bike requires a good bit more lean than the 
>> other. It makes me a lot more hesitant to take corners as quickly on loose 
>> surfaces. Of course once you've lost traction it's easier to control and 
>> recover from skids with long chainstays but I'd rather not lose traction in 
>> the first place, you know?
>>
>> As someone who adjusts their bars below the saddle I'm also not really 
>> representative of the typical Rivendell rider, though. I suppose that at 
>> this point complaining about no shorter-chainstay'd Rivendells is like 
>> complaining that Cervelo doesn't have a steel option any more. Both 
>> companies once had the option for it but the type of riders they're 
>> intended for necessarily led them away from that.
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com .
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> 

[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Matt Dreher]

Fair, I was a bit rushed writing that. I think it's a sort of a modern 
vernacular thing, using 'you' where one should really be using 'one.' This 
should make it clearer.

*I don't buy the line that wheelbase doesn't affect handling significantly. 
I have an 90s road bike with 41cm stays that's exhausting to spend a long 
while on. The handling feels significantly more confident to me on that 
bike. I know that one can take the same lines but taking the same line on 
the long-stayed bike requires a good bit more lean than the other. It makes 
me a lot more hesitant to take corners as quickly on loose surfaces. Of 
course once I've lost traction it's easier to control and recover from 
skids with long chainstays but I'd rather not lose traction in the first 
place.*


Something I've considered that may be coloring my perceptions: my height. 
I'm 6'5", proportioned just so that 61 to 62cm frames are what fits me 
right. Leaning further when one is tall must necessarily put more lateral 
force on the tire, right? It seems that there's just more at stake when 
your center of mass is further from the ground. Long wheelbases mean that 
you necessarily must lean further. Maybe the confidence I feel on the SWB 
bike is just a matter of not having to dig as far into my reserve of grip?

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 1:42:11 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Hey Matt! I got confused in your middle paragraph. Too many pronouns that 
> seem reversed of what I thought you were saying for me to follow. Would you 
> mind clarifying please?
>
> I've not heard anyone say wheelbase doesn't affect handling, significantly 
> or otherwise. The entire experience I've had with longer wheel base is 
> significantly better handling. It DOES require adjustment and different 
> lines. There may be a learning curve, but a sharp lad could easily suss 
> that out and not need to slow down, and likely go yet faster if desired. 
> Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 12:25:24 PM UTC-7, Matt Dreher wrote:
>>
>> I finally concluded that the chainstays on my 61 Roadini are just a hair 
>> too long at 46cm. I'm not opposed to longer chainstays, it's just that it 
>> would be nice if there were a Rivendell option other than the Roadeo that 
>> had slightly more traditional road geometry. If they had capped it at 44cm 
>> for the large sizes or specced horizontal dropouts to allow a bit of 
>> adjustability I probably wouldn't have a real issue with it. 
>>
>> I don't buy the line that wheelbase doesn't affect handling 
>> significantly. I have an 90s road bike with 41cm stays that's exhausting to 
>> spend a long while on. The handling feels significantly more confident to 
>> me on that bike. I know that you can take the same lines but taking the 
>> same line on the long-stayed bike requires a good bit more lean than the 
>> other. It makes me a lot more hesitant to take corners as quickly on loose 
>> surfaces. Of course once you've lost traction it's easier to control and 
>> recover from skids with long chainstays but I'd rather not lose traction in 
>> the first place, you know?
>>
>> As someone who adjusts their bars below the saddle I'm also not really 
>> representative of the typical Rivendell rider, though. I suppose that at 
>> this point complaining about no shorter-chainstay'd Rivendells is like 
>> complaining that Cervelo doesn't have a steel option any more. Both 
>> companies once had the option for it but the type of riders they're 
>> intended for necessarily led them away from that.
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[lconley]

Actually, the long wheelbases started earlier, at least as early the 
"Mystery Bike". My Mystery Bike / Protopaloosa, is spookily similar in 
geometry (minus the diagatube and tentacles) to my forthcoming custom.

Laing

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 4:12:30 PM UTC-5, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Well, I’ve been thinking. We’ve generated a LOT of good discussion here, 
> and it has been most informative. I’ve sifted through the posts again, and 
> I think the initial question remains. 
>
> Rivendell began lengthening wheelbases and chainstays with the Clems. I’d 
> agree that was an improvement. My Clementine rides better than my Betty 
> Foy, so I’m going to agree with the longer design. The question I still 
> have is: Now that the LWB models are further lengthened, what improvements 
> can we appreciate in our new bikes? 
>
> Mark Roland - you might be our best hope here. When your 2019 52 Clem L is 
> built, you’ll have it to compare to the 2015 OC. Also, what is taking so 
> long? How can you treat us this way? We need answers. MY CLOTHES ARE GOING 
> OUT OF STYLE OVER HERE MARK HURRY UP. 
> ***
>  
>
> I’ve put nearly all of my January miles on my Clem L, so today I decided 
> to see what my old bikes feel like. I took the Clementine out first. And I 
> liked it. It rode very nicely, just like I remembered, only now...the front 
> end (I cannot call it a cockpit as it’s not an airplane) feels cramped. Not 
> uncomfortably so, and I’m sure I’d get used to it again if that was my only 
> bike. My rear was closer to being over the pedals. Hmmm...I’m not sure how 
> I feel about that. Still, a comfortable bike, but is it as perfect as I 
> once said? 
>
> Next, I tried the Betty. That was unfair because something is rubbing on 
> that bike and heaven knows what it is - I certainly don’t - so it was 
> aggravating and I parked it. The Betty was quite light, even with a rear 
> rack - that was definitely discernible. 
>
> Finally, the Clem L. It felt good. I should have a wider saddle on that 
> bike (the other two have wider Brooks and are more comfortable but less 
> beautiful) but it otherwise was comfortable and easy to steer. I didn’t 
> feel cramped in it, nor did I feel stretched out. Did I get used to the 
> bike? Who knows. Did I make improvements that forced the bike into 
> compliance with my body? I don’t know. I have no photographer to show you 
> how the bikes fit until after the boys get home; I’ll have them see what 
> they can do. 
>
> Lastly, a lesson in leaving well enough alone. I could hear a little noise 
> in the rear fender; the noise was irksome to me because I like a bike to be 
> quiet. Fiddling around with the rear tire and fender, it looked to me like 
> I could fix the noise if I could just adjust this bolt over here. I was 
> pleased because it required a hex key and I am an ardent fan and user of 
> hex keys. You’ll be interested to know that the fender now makes ten times 
> more noise as it is infringing on the tire and I, naturally, cannot get it 
> back the way it was. 
>
> And so it goes, 
> Leah 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Patrick Moore]

Matt: First, this is a question, not a contradiction

I don't doubt that significantly lengthening chainstays affects ride, but
do a couple of cm in the stays affect steering as much as you say? I ask
because I've had several (6 -- I keep updating this number; at least 6 )
bikes with 44-45 cm stays, and many others with 42-43 cm stays, and at
least as far as my memories go, I don't recall that all the longer stayed
bikes were slower to turn than all of the shorter stayed bikes; or that all
the shorter stayed bikes were faster than all the etc etc. In fact, some of
the longer stayed bikes turned more quickly -- "felt more nimble" -- while
at least 1 of the short-stayed bikes (and, come to think of it, this one
may have had 40 or 39 cm stays -- old Schwinn Tempon; could cram a 25mm
tire in there only after taking a gentle hammer to the st bridge) handled
very sweetly; better, or at least more to my taste, than 2 of those with
44/45 stays, and some with 42 cm stays handled more sedately than others
with the longer stays.

Comparing all of these bikes in memory (well, not entirely in memory, since
I still have 2 of the 44/45s), their handling is all over the place, so cs
length is apparently not a sole determining factor in overall handling
experience. Other factors in my own experience are wheel diameter, head
angle, wheel weight, and tire width.

Funny: I owned a first edition Sam Hill, and that did indeed exhibit the
"swoopy" feel that someone else described, but IMO, too much so, in that,
while it "carved a turn" so very nicely, once it was in the turn, it was
hard to adjust your line -- a quality that I did not like, as exhibited on
that bike. OTOH, one reason I didn't like the Herse was that it *didn't*
"carve a turn" as much as I like; it felt vague in turns. My 2 remaining
custom Roads give me, at least, exactly the balance between "natural" turn
in and "ease of adjustment." My first custom Road was *very slightly* too
twitchy. All these Roads use light, small 24" to 25" diameter wheels (559
or 571, 24 3/4" with the 559 X 28 Elk Passes).

On Thu, Jan 9, 2020 at 12:25 PM Matt Dreher <99m...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I finally concluded that the chainstays on my 61 Roadini are just a hair
> too long at 46cm. I'm not opposed to longer chainstays, it's just that it
> would be nice if there were a Rivendell option other than the Roadeo that
> had slightly more traditional road geometry. If they had capped it at 44cm
> for the large sizes or specced horizontal dropouts to allow a bit of
> adjustability I probably wouldn't have a real issue with it.
>
> I don't buy the line that wheelbase doesn't affect handling significantly.
> I have an 90s road bike with 41cm stays that's exhausting to spend a long
> while on. The handling feels significantly more confident to me on that
> bike. I know that you can take the same lines but taking the same line on
> the long-stayed bike requires a good bit more lean than the other. It makes
> me a lot more hesitant to take corners as quickly on loose surfaces. Of
> course once you've lost traction it's easier to control and recover from
> skids with long chainstays but I'd rather not lose traction in the first
> place, you know?
>
> As someone who adjusts their bars below the saddle I'm also not really
> representative of the typical Rivendell rider, though. I suppose that at
> this point complaining about no shorter-chainstay'd Rivendells is like
> complaining that Cervelo doesn't have a steel option any more. Both
> companies once had the option for it but the type of riders they're
> intended for necessarily led them away from that.
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/dff29408-57da-4688-b22a-46425cc1d3b1%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!]

Well, I’ve been thinking. We’ve generated a LOT of good discussion here, and it 
has been most informative. I’ve sifted through the posts again, and I think the 
initial question remains.

Rivendell began lengthening wheelbases and chainstays with the Clems. I’d agree 
that was an improvement. My Clementine rides better than my Betty Foy, so I’m 
going to agree with the longer design. The question I still have is: Now that 
the LWB models are further lengthened, what improvements can we appreciate in 
our new bikes? 

Mark Roland - you might be our best hope here. When your 2019 52 Clem L is 
built, you’ll have it to compare to the 2015 OC. Also, what is taking so long? 
How can you treat us this way? We need answers. MY CLOTHES ARE GOING OUT OF 
STYLE OVER HERE MARK HURRY UP.
***
I’ve put nearly all of my January miles on my Clem L, so today I decided to see 
what my old bikes feel like. I took the Clementine out first. And I liked it. 
It rode very nicely, just like I remembered, only now...the front end (I cannot 
call it a cockpit as it’s not an airplane) feels cramped. Not uncomfortably so, 
and I’m sure I’d get used to it again if that was my only bike. My rear was 
closer to being over the pedals. Hmmm...I’m not sure how I feel about that. 
Still, a comfortable bike, but is it as perfect as I once said?

Next, I tried the Betty. That was unfair because something is rubbing on that 
bike and heaven knows what it is - I certainly don’t - so it was aggravating 
and I parked it. The Betty was quite light, even with a rear rack - that was 
definitely discernible. 

Finally, the Clem L. It felt good. I should have a wider saddle on that bike 
(the other two have wider Brooks and are more comfortable but less beautiful) 
but it otherwise was comfortable and easy to steer. I didn’t feel cramped in 
it, nor did I feel stretched out. Did I get used to the bike? Who knows. Did I 
make improvements that forced the bike into compliance with my body? I don’t 
know. I have no photographer to show you how the bikes fit until after the boys 
get home; I’ll have them see what they can do. 

Lastly, a lesson in leaving well enough alone. I could hear a little noise in 
the rear fender; the noise was irksome to me because I like a bike to be quiet. 
Fiddling around with the rear tire and fender, it looked to me like I could fix 
the noise if I could just adjust this bolt over here. I was pleased because it 
required a hex key and I am an ardent fan and user of hex keys. You’ll be 
interested to know that the fender now makes ten times more noise as it is 
infringing on the tire and I, naturally, cannot get it back the way it was. 

And so it goes,
Leah

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[RBW] Re: How & when & why did you find Rivendell? What was your first bike or part from them?

[eddietheflay]

about 20 years ago i stumbled onto the forum sponsored by Serotta Bicycle 
Company. via that virtual method, I was introduced to Dr. Douglas Brooks. 
He had the strongest opinions, the most convincing reasons for having those 
opinions, and a giant and every changing collection of bikes = only the 
most gorgeous of bikes. DBRK as he was known online loved Rivendell and 
Grant Peterson. I ride big bikes for two reasons: 1. i am old and not very 
flexible and 2. because DBRK and GP convinced me that it just made sense.

Since that time I have owned two orange Rabouillets, two gorgeous blue 
Bleriots, and one green coupled Rambouillet. I have mostly moved on to all 
fast pavement bikes but my fit is still based on DBRK and GP.

https://www.glo.com/preview/teachers/dr-douglas-brooks?utm_source=google_medium=cpc_campaign=1656894644_content=6025643_term=kwd-591110618803=CjwKCAiAu9vwBRAEEiwAzvjq-5FAx4tgFD3yQIOsVnzlcas5t5gWJn7Xu8KRljvt7ZVdlA3cTVnViBoCu3cQAvD_BwE

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 9:52:28 AM UTC-8, Pancake wrote:
>
> Leah's discussion about long wheel base led to a lot of interesting 
> discussions about how people found Rivendell. I'd like to know:
>
>- How you first found out about Rivendell?
>- What caused you to actually get your first Rivendell frame or 
>component (or something Riv inspired) ... and what was that first buy?
>- And could you add a photo of that first?
>
> Personally, I was overweight and looking to make my biking more 
> comfortable back in 2004 in Berkeley. Searching online led me to look at 
> Brooks saddles and sweptback handlebars and ultimately to Rivendell to buy 
> some steel Albatross bars ... which I still use today! On a student budget, 
> I attached them to a Jamis Coda Sport (steel frame) with beefed up wheels 
> from The Missing Link bike co-op. Then about 2 years ago my friend Ronnie 
> gave me a Cheviot frame to build up as a distraction while waiting to 
> adopt. The moment I finished building the bike, as I was attaching the 
> pedals my wife pulled into the garage, jumped out of the car and with tears 
> and a huge smile and told me to get plane tickets to Kansas because our 
> daughter was about to be born! Now our daughter is almost 2 years old and I 
> have the Cheviot, a Sam Hillborne, and the same friend is lending me a 
> Rosco Baby frame until that we built a couple weeks ago for front kid seat 
> rides. 
>
> When Grant met my daughter, he noticed the "Baby Muggle On Board" sticker 
> on our car window ... he was rightfully concerned that we didn't know if 
> she was a muggle or not!
>
> Ride on,
> Abe
>
> Some pics of my other Rivendell bikes (and the Rosco Baby with those 
> original Albatross bars) here - https://imgur.com/a/wWgiDmh
>
> [image: IMG_4021.jpg]
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS 55cm Orange Cheviot

[Stanley Withouski]

Long shot but still available? DM if so

On Tuesday, October 1, 2019 at 5:13:56 PM UTC-7, Bill Ruprecht wrote:
>
> A divorce is forcing me to sell a couple bikes. The first is a Pumpkin 
> Cheviot. Size 55. Complete except for Saddle
>
> Built with standard Rivendell components including:
>
> Velocity  650B X36 Wheelset.
> Schwalbe Marathon tires
> Sugino XD2 triple crank size 170
> 9 speed 11-32 cassette
> Shimano Deore rear derailer
> Shimano claris front derailer
> Nitto Albatross bars
> Cork grips
> Nitto Tallux stem
> Tektro R559 brakes
> Shimano MTB silver levers
> seatpost
>
> Ridden less than 100miles
>
> Asking $2000 plus shipping  via bike flights and pkging unless you can 
> pick up in New Hampshire
> more pics available on request
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hey Matt! I got confused in your middle paragraph. Too many pronouns that 
seem reversed of what I thought you were saying for me to follow. Would you 
mind clarifying please?

I've not heard anyone say wheelbase doesn't affect handling, significantly 
or otherwise. The entire experience I've had with longer wheel base is 
significantly better handling. It DOES require adjustment and different 
lines. There may be a learning curve, but a sharp lad could easily suss 
that out and not need to slow down, and likely go yet faster if desired. 
Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 12:25:24 PM UTC-7, Matt Dreher wrote:
>
> I finally concluded that the chainstays on my 61 Roadini are just a hair 
> too long at 46cm. I'm not opposed to longer chainstays, it's just that it 
> would be nice if there were a Rivendell option other than the Roadeo that 
> had slightly more traditional road geometry. If they had capped it at 44cm 
> for the large sizes or specced horizontal dropouts to allow a bit of 
> adjustability I probably wouldn't have a real issue with it. 
>
> I don't buy the line that wheelbase doesn't affect handling significantly. 
> I have an 90s road bike with 41cm stays that's exhausting to spend a long 
> while on. The handling feels significantly more confident to me on that 
> bike. I know that you can take the same lines but taking the same line on 
> the long-stayed bike requires a good bit more lean than the other. It makes 
> me a lot more hesitant to take corners as quickly on loose surfaces. Of 
> course once you've lost traction it's easier to control and recover from 
> skids with long chainstays but I'd rather not lose traction in the first 
> place, you know?
>
> As someone who adjusts their bars below the saddle I'm also not really 
> representative of the typical Rivendell rider, though. I suppose that at 
> this point complaining about no shorter-chainstay'd Rivendells is like 
> complaining that Cervelo doesn't have a steel option any more. Both 
> companies once had the option for it but the type of riders they're 
> intended for necessarily led them away from that.
>

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[RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Matt Dreher]

I finally concluded that the chainstays on my 61 Roadini are just a hair 
too long at 46cm. I'm not opposed to longer chainstays, it's just that it 
would be nice if there were a Rivendell option other than the Roadeo that 
had slightly more traditional road geometry. If they had capped it at 44cm 
for the large sizes or specced horizontal dropouts to allow a bit of 
adjustability I probably wouldn't have a real issue with it. 

I don't buy the line that wheelbase doesn't affect handling significantly. 
I have an 90s road bike with 41cm stays that's exhausting to spend a long 
while on. The handling feels significantly more confident to me on that 
bike. I know that you can take the same lines but taking the same line on 
the long-stayed bike requires a good bit more lean than the other. It makes 
me a lot more hesitant to take corners as quickly on loose surfaces. Of 
course once you've lost traction it's easier to control and recover from 
skids with long chainstays but I'd rather not lose traction in the first 
place, you know?

As someone who adjusts their bars below the saddle I'm also not really 
representative of the typical Rivendell rider, though. I suppose that at 
this point complaining about no shorter-chainstay'd Rivendells is like 
complaining that Cervelo doesn't have a steel option any more. Both 
companies once had the option for it but the type of riders they're 
intended for necessarily led them away from that.

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[RBW] Re: WTB: 55cm Cheviot

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Congratulations, Stanley! Off the cuff suggestion: kids grow up, even when 
you have more than 3 or 4, and a time will come when you may well want a 
bike that can go off pavement with abandon, in which case the buy it now, 
ride it forever nature of the hillibike is brilliant! Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 12:13:37 PM UTC-7, Stanley Withouski wrote:
>
> New dad here & looking to make it official with my first step-thru ;)
>
> Located in SF - up for bay area pickup or shipping. Also, prefer 
> frame/form but also open to completes if it's not totally different than 
> what I have in mind.
>
> Cheers
> Stan
> (619) three zero two - 0181
>
> p.s. soft spot for Riv Orange colorway 
>
> p.s.s. also, I am aware of the new Hilly bike but seeing as this bike will 
> be carrying a kid, it will be on nice paved roads 90% of the time so don't 
> need the extra tire size that the Hilly bikes require.  
>

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[RBW] WTB: 55cm Cheviot

[Stanley Withouski]

New dad here & looking to make it official with my first step-thru ;)

Located in SF - up for bay area pickup or shipping. Also, prefer frame/form 
but also open to completes if it's not totally different than what I have 
in mind.

Cheers
Stan
(619) three zero two - 0181

p.s. soft spot for Riv Orange colorway 

p.s.s. also, I am aware of the new Hilly bike but seeing as this bike will 
be carrying a kid, it will be on nice paved roads 90% of the time so don't 
need the extra tire size that the Hilly bikes require.  

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[RBW] Re: FS: Closet purge! Filson Barbour Woolrich Holubar Rockmount Pendleton Giro Shimano...

['jinxed' via RBW Owners Bunch]

What's left, additions, and PRICE DROPS!

*SPD Shoes* - The first two were worn exactly one time. I have foot issues 
and these just did not work. I wear a 9 in almost everything, these fit 
fine.

GIRO Rumble Size 44 - $45 - *$40*
Shimano SH-MT34B Size 43 - $30 - *$25*

LAKE LX140 winter boots Size 11.5-12 46 New in the box - *$50 *(These are 
WAY too big for me, I mistakingly sized up too far)

*Shirts:*

Rockmount Ranchwear short sleeve Size 15.5 - $15 - *$10*
Fits loose small, more like medium. Light material. Cool diamond snaps. MUSA

*Vests:*

Filson Type 8 game vest Size 40 - $50 - *$45*
Had this one for a LOOONG time. Well worn, small holes and stains and 
fading. Far too big on me now, but will probably outlast me. MUSA

Triumph thermal vest - Size Medium - $30 -* $25*
Made for under the moto jacket. As new. Too big for me, fits like a 40

*Jackets:*

Filson Tin Cloth Cruiser short jacket Size Small - $200 - *$180*
This actually fits me great, but I have a waxed cotton trucker I prefer. 
MUSA

Barbour International A7 trials jacket - Size 38c - $200 - *$180*
These fit pretty baggy. More like a 40. Consequently I replaced it with a 
34! and it's my favorite jacket. Made in England

Woolrich Shirt/Jacket? Size Medium - $40 - *$35*
Really nice wool blend, thick heavy material. I used it as an overcoat. 
Boxy fit more like large. MUSA

Holubar vintage shell Size Small - $40 - *$35*
WOW. I wore this hiking in the 80s. It's showing some wear on the cuffs, 
but still super solid. One of the beefiest zippers I have ever seen. Fits 
like a medium. MUSA

Northface shell Size medium - $25 - *$20*
Fine shape. Fits true. Not what I would call a rain jacket, but used it for 
light sprinkles while riding. Just too big on me now.

Tourmaster Lawndale leather motorcycle jacket Size XS 38 - $200 - *$180*
As new motorcycle jacket. True to size. Nice 3/4 length. Added shoulder and 
elbow armor. Has pocket for back armor.

Gap Field jacket Size S - $30 - *$25*
New. Fits me great, just not my thing. Has a hood in the collar.

*BAG:*

Swift Industries / Ultraromance Fabios Chest - Small - Olive cordura $225 - 
*$200*
Excellent condition, very slight marks on bottom where it rested on my rear 
rack. Has ACW and TSBC patches sewn on outer flap.

*WATCH:*

Seiko SARB033 automatic watch. $350 - *$325*
All boxes, papers, links included. 8 out of 10 condition, small hairlines 
on bracelet. Crystal perfect, excellent performance.

*ART:*

RAD Cru Jones bike / Helltrack diorama. *$200*
Handmade and or customized by me. Started with mini BMX bike, completely 
repainted and created the extras. Fence made and hand painted.

LaVazza Demitasse painting. *$40*
5x7 Acrylic painting for your coffee nook, office, or bedside table 
depending on your level of commitment.

*PICTURE GALLERY* 


If you need a specific measurement or something, let me know. Happy to run 
out the tape.
US sales only please. Paypal Preferred.

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[RBW] WTB - Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass Tires

[Friend]

Used or new, one or a pair.  I'm located in VA.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Joe Bernard]

"Worth mentioning that that sounds like my sport bike, a Boulder All Road 650b 
true low trail skinny tubes and all. It's pretty short. Diving is how I 
describe it going into turns. It also carves good. Not swoopy though. Hmm."

It also sounds like the Crust Lightning Bolt low-trail bike I had. Not my 
thing, it was twitchy and unstable and weird and I couldn't talk myself into 
putting up with it. I lost a lot of money on that learning curve...

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Paul Clifton]

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 2:42:47 AM UTC-6, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I did ride Japanese bikes that were short and twitchy and dived instantly 
> into turns and you could change lines 5 times whether you wanted to or not.
>

Worth mentioning that that sounds like my sport bike, a Boulder All Road 
650b true low trail skinny tubes and all. It's pretty short. Diving is how 
I describe it going into turns. It also carves good. Not swoopy though. Hmm.

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[RBW] Re: FS - PaIr WTB Nano 700x40 - near new

[stoker]

Sold

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Paul Clifton]

It's good to hear the Sam carves like that. I've only ridden a drop bar Riv 
(Sam in 2011 or 12) around the shop a couple times. It was the first time I 
rode a Riv and the handling was noticeably fantastic immediately.

I wonder what you'd get if you took a Sam, lengthened the top tube a lot, 
and put a long stem with swept back bars on it. That's got me thinking that 
carving might be swooping, but when you are bent forward, instead of 
sitting more upright?

Let's get some photos of countersteering on various Rivs. I'll try to snap 
one when I have some fooling around time.

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 9:35:30 AM UTC-6, Jason Fuller wrote:
>
> What Paul describes as swoopy is probably the same thing I've described to 
> myself and maybe others as Rivendells (or, at at least the two I have) as 
> carving when cornering. And I expect it's because the rider is so well 
> balanced between front and back wheels with a Riv frame. Length is probably 
> the secondary input

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Paul Clifton]

Joe, I think you're right on about the stability and how it relates to 
motorcycles. My dad's motorcycle skill books went really  deep into 
countersteering and pushing on the bars. I also think that because bikes 
are smaller and the human is the motor, there is more to swoopiness than 
the bike's tendency to return to straight.

Like Jason is saying, it probably has to do with balancing weight between 
the front and back wheel, and I think also balance of steering input force 
with the bike's tendency for stability. Then there are speed, traction, and 
tire deflection things going on, so fatter softer tires may also increase 
swoopiness, which is another thing Riv has kinda always done before it was 
cool.

I do see long bikes as a logical progression of the Riv riding aesthetic. I 
also think that the Gus is probably prophetic, but I haven't ridden one. If 
we lived in a bikey world, the Baby Bike would be a game changer. I really 
need to find a 52 Clem to ride around. Maybe the Clem nails it for 90% of 
everything. The other 10% are special cases, like big rocks or small kids.

I put the long stem back on the Baby Bike last night. I'm gonna think about 
it more while I ride errands today.

Paul

On Thursday, January 9, 2020 at 3:01:09 AM UTC-6, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> And to double-down on my observation, this stability and predictability in 
> steering is why I always like Rivs more than other bikes (and I've owned a 
> bunch of others). It's not just wheelbase or chainstay length, I know 
> there's some other can of numbers Grant juggles then sprinkles the magic 
> equation onto the tubes. Even more than the looks, the lugs, the 
> parts..what I love above all about Rivbikes is they go where I point them 
> and don't second guess me. It's comforting. 

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[RBW] Re: WTB: Handlebar bag

[Pat Smith]

Check out this posting over at the 650b 
listserv: https://groups.google.com/d/msg/650b/Jrs-JG5n11U/KTbke3c2CAAJ

Tall Acorn Rando Bag for $150 shipped like new condition. I'd be all over 
it if I didn't just spend way too much money on other things.

Patrick in DC

On Wednesday, January 8, 2020 at 12:15:58 PM UTC-5, Sean Hipkin wrote:
>
> Hi all, I'm on the hunt for a tall handlebar bag. Something like a Large 
> Gilles Berthoug. Thanks so much!
>
> Sean
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Jason Fuller]

What Paul describes as swoopy is probably the same thing I've described to 
myself and maybe others as Rivendells (or, at at least the two I have) as 
carving when cornering. And I expect it's because the rider is so well balanced 
between front and back wheels with a Riv frame. Length is probably the 
secondary input

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[RBW] Re: long shot: looking to test ride a 60cm Cheviot in the DC area

[Paul Richardson]

>
> per will, via joe, I believe all we know at this point is that it will be 
> "more 
>> rad" 
>> 
>>
>
paul

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[RBW] Re: Velocity Quill experiences?

['Tony McG' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I have Velocity Quill on my Toyo Atlantis with 700x50 Soma Cazadero tires; 
the rims are awesome, but the tire/frame clearance it tight. I chose the 
Quill over the A23 because they were tubeless compatible and their wider 
inside width.  Our Salsa Powderkeg tandem has a Cliffhanger with dynamo on 
the front, and I will replace the Stan's rim on the back with a Cliffhanger 
as soon as I decide which hub I want to use. I'm leaning towards Hadley.

I'm not a weight weenie, but I can't imagine a better place to increase 
bicycle performance (besides the human motor) than wheels/tires.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Garth]

FWIW, bike stems are as short as zero mm for bmx riders. There are also 
30+mm mtb stems which would require a quill adapter and shims, which is no 
big deal, and there are 2 short quill stems that also require shims. The 
zero Wright stem appears non-available. 

https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/us/en/chromag-ranger-v2-stem/rp-prod146454

https://www.analogcycles.com/product/analog-wright-stem/

https://crustbikes.com/products/nitto-26-0-bj-stem/

There's also reversing the above stems or any + rise stem. there is 
something in RivReader #42 about it too ... 
http://www.cyclofiend.com/Images/pdf/RR42_web.pdf



All this said  everything is alright Leah and this could never 
stated too much  as It's Life Itself ! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Joe Bernard]

And to double-down on my observation, this stability and predictability in 
steering is why I always like Rivs more than other bikes (and I've owned a 
bunch of others). It's not just wheelbase or chainstay length, I know there's 
some other can of numbers Grant juggles then sprinkles the magic equation onto 
the tubes. Even more than the looks, the lugs, the parts..what I love above all 
about Rivbikes is they go where I point them and don't second guess me. It's 
comforting. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Can we talk about long wheelbases?

[Joe Bernard]

I used to be heavy into the motorcycles, and Ducatis of the era (late-'70s to 
mid-'80s) were visibly longer than Japanese sportbikes and had a reputation for 
slow steering. What the magazine testers meant by "slow" was you had to really 
push (countersteer) on the bar to get the bike leaned into a corner, then it 
would track like on rails in one sweeping arc with always that sense of the bar 
pushing back against your palm like it wanted to stand up straight again. 

I never rode one, but I did ride Japanese bikes that were short and twitchy and 
dived instantly into turns and you could change lines 5 times whether you 
wanted to or not. It was fun, but could wear you out in short order because the 
bike was always dancing..there was no sense of stability, of the bike staying 
in one spot long enough for you to check a mirror. 

I think Grant designs that Ducati-like stability into Rivs, and it's more 
pronounced in the longer ones. You get that sense that you're "in" the bike and 
carving through a turn, not "on" it with the thing moving all over the place. I 
believe this is what you mean by swoopy and I like it, too. 

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