Re: [RBW] Rivendell children's bike

[Patrick Moore]

You've convinced me that hand brakes aren't hard for beginning children
cyclists; I suppose if a child is old enough and coordinated enough to
backpedal to stop he or she can grab a lever.

One advantage of coaster brakes is that they're generally set and forget.
As long as the chain is not hugely loose they'll work as well as day 1
after months and even years of neglect. Calipers, OTOH: most parents will
buy Target or Costco children's bikes. I've spent much time making the
calipers or V brakes or cantilevers on inexpensive bikes work minimally
well; just did that a few weeks ago for the front brake on the bike
belonging to the 11 year old son of a friend; the brake was -- again --
useless. The rear was not much better but at least it didn't get worse.
This after I'd done a complete brake cable and housing refit and full
adjustment 6 or 8 months ago.

I guess my only real points are: coaster brakes are not harmful, and they
do have their advantages.

Me, I learned to ride age 4 -- 65 years ago -- on a brakeless fixie; no
kidding. I have distinct memories of the rather intimidating blonde sisters
next door (they might have been 9 and 11) teaching me to ride a tiny,
rust-red 12"-or-so-wheel bike with solid spokes and hard rubber tires and
-- again, I have distinct memories from even so long ago for bike stuff --
no coasting. They -- probably gleefully -- perched me on it and pushed me
off down our sloping driveway into the street. Very short driveway, very
quiet residential street.




On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 4:53 PM Ted Durant  wrote:

>
> On Sep 18, 2024, at 3:29 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> I just read Ted's post. I retract the second part, maybe -- instance is
> not a statistic -- but not the first part of my assertion!
>
>> … As just one of the dozens of generations of small children learning to
>> ride on coaster braked bikes (but *) I think someone was thinking about
>> things far, far too hard. And there’s more! Can you imagine bike-clueless
>> parents teaching wildly uncoordinated children how to safely use caliper
>> brakes?? "Now Junior or Missy, remember that your rear brake is activated
>> by the *right* lever but that your *left* lever activates the *front* brake
>> which does 80% of the braking. Got that, Junior/Missy?”
>>
>
> As I noted, we adjusted the front brake so that it didn’t provide much
> power, just for that reason. We did that on the balance bike, and on the
> pedal bike we didn’t feel we needed to depower it as much because he had
> internalized well the difference between the left brake and the right
> brake. Woom helpfully colors the levers differently, so you don’t coach
> them on front/rear or left/right, it’s just green and black. The rear lever
> is green, so you just coach them to use the green one to start, then when
> they really get moving you teach them about straight line braking with both
> brakes.
>
> I don’t think coaster brakes are dangerous at kid-bike speeds and weights.
> I didn’t have any trouble learning to use the one on the solid-tired bike I
> inherited from my older brother 57 years ago. But eventually hand-operated
> brakes will have to be learned, and I see value in separating the braking
> function from the pedaling function. Also, I don’t think most children are
> wildly uncoordinated, just unskilled. The vast majority of children acquire
> physical skills very quickly with a bit of repetition and a few mistakes,
> er, learning opportunities. My grandson only needed to grab the black brake
> lever hard once to learn to be careful of that one, and at the speed he was
> going the consequences were scary but not physically damaging.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
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> .
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell children's bike

[Patrick Moore]

I just read Ted's post. I retract the second part, maybe -- instance is not
a statistic -- but not the first part of my assertion!

On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 2:28 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Thanks, Matt, for citing the text. I had to laugh though: *THIS JUST IN!!
> COASTER BRAKES ARE DANGEROUS!! IMMEDIATELY CEASE USE AND BURN ON BONFIRE!!!*
>
> As just one of the dozens of generations of small children learning to
> ride on coaster braked bikes (but *) I think someone was thinking about
> things far, far too hard. And there's more! Can you imagine bike-clueless
> parents teaching wildly uncoordinated children how to safely use caliper
> brakes?? "Now Junior or Missy, remember that your rear brake is activated
> by the *right* lever but that your *left* lever activates the *front* brake
> which does 80% of the braking. Got that, Junior/Missy?"
>
> On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 9:07 AM Matt Walker  wrote:
>
>> Article is worth a read- but an excerpt is here:
>> "Why [no coaster]? When learning to pedal, kids (and adults!) naturally
>> pedal backwards at times.  With a coaster brake, the backward pedaling
>> motion quickly activates the brakes, creating an unexpected stop. In
>> addition to losing all the momentum they gained, kids may not be prepared
>> to stop and often fall as a result."
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 2:40 PM Matt Walker 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Handbrakes are superior to coaster for kids-- Two Wheeling Tots
>>> convinced me years ago:
>>> https://www.twowheelingtots.com/coaster-brake-vs-hand-brakes/
>>>
>>

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Patrick Moore
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell children's bike

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Matt, for citing the text. I had to laugh though: *THIS JUST IN!!
COASTER BRAKES ARE DANGEROUS!! IMMEDIATELY CEASE USE AND BURN ON BONFIRE!!!*

As just one of the dozens of generations of small children learning to ride
on coaster braked bikes (but *) I think someone was thinking about things
far, far too hard. And there's more! Can you imagine bike-clueless parents
teaching wildly uncoordinated children how to safely use caliper brakes??
"Now Junior or Missy, remember that your rear brake is activated by the
*right* lever but that your *left* lever activates the *front* brake which
does 80% of the braking. Got that, Junior/Missy?"

On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 9:07 AM Matt Walker  wrote:

> Article is worth a read- but an excerpt is here:
> "Why [no coaster]? When learning to pedal, kids (and adults!) naturally
> pedal backwards at times.  With a coaster brake, the backward pedaling
> motion quickly activates the brakes, creating an unexpected stop. In
> addition to losing all the momentum they gained, kids may not be prepared
> to stop and often fall as a result."
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 2:40 PM Matt Walker  wrote:
>
>> Handbrakes are superior to coaster for kids-- Two Wheeling Tots convinced
>> me years ago:
>> https://www.twowheelingtots.com/coaster-brake-vs-hand-brakes/
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Custom panniers with Ortlieb hardware?

[Patrick Moore]

Michael: Please do post photos and descriptions of your Ortleib-hardware
customs as-and-when.

Lord's: Reasonable prices until you come to the musette: why is this $120?
Even the Large Grabsack is only $113, and having owned a first-edition
those are far, far more than musettes. (RH musettes and Chuck Harris's cute
Velo Retro stock designs and customs are only $25, at least at last
purchase.)

On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 2:16 PM Jordan R. 
wrote:

> I would reach out to Andy at Lord's Luggage
> <https://www.lordsluggage.com/>. He makes great stuff, and a Riv
> enthusiast. I spoke with him about this very subject about a year ago.
>
> Jordan in PDX
>
> On Wednesday, September 18, 2024 at 12:38:30 PM UTC-7 Michael Morrissey
> wrote:
>
>> Hi!
>>
>> Does anyone know of any makers who could make a custom pannier using
>> Ortlieb hardware? I love the Ortlieb latch system but I would like to try a
>> different pannier.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Michael
>>
>> --
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> .
>


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[RBW] Re: [BOB] Re: The Art of Taking It Slow | The New Yorker On Grant Petersen and Rob

[Patrick Moore]

One big *kudos* to Grant: he has not made Rivendell into a "lifestyle"
brand. I certainly don't like all Rivendell products -- tweed mudflaps,
anyone? -- but I do believe that he is sincere in his declaration that "we
are product driven, not market driven" and that Riv sells things that staff
use and believe in, not merely what is marketable in one way or another.

"Thriving:" for such a small and niche company to stay solvent and even
make small profits over 30 years *while paying employees and US and foreign
suppliers fairly,* not to mention dropping $$ on ultra-niche components, is
to thrive hugely, IMO!


On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 12:40 PM P W  wrote:

> I would imagine, rightly, because he makes no money from the older bikes
> exchanging hands.
>
> He operates a niche business in a struggling economy, one that I imagine
> needs every dollar it can to remain not only afloat but ideally thriving.
>
> One more secondhand Bridgestone purchase does nothing for him or the many
> employees that rely on the company for income. I think it’s smart the
> article focuses and thus promotes bikes you could go online today, from
> anywhere in America, and buy. Hopefully at least a handful of people do
> that as a result.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: WTB: Sackville Trunksack Large and Small

[Patrick Moore]

One last remark: shipping costs have risen considerably in the last few
years but I still find it cheaper to order directly from Carradice than
from US middlemen.

Oh, and the structural foam in the Carradice Rackbag has stood up pretty
darned well under my use.

Well, 3d remark: BTW: I wish Rivendell made a larger rack trunk. I briefly
owned a Small but it was far too small for my needs; not even 1/4 the size
of the Carradice. But I'd buy a Rivendell one that was big enough.

On Wed, Sep 18, 2024 at 7:40 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Only in black, AFAIK.
>
> I've not ordered from them in several years, but back then they were very
> quick to reply to questions.
>
> On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 11:25 AM Nathan Mattia 
> wrote:
>
>> Patrick, this is a REVELATION!  Do they make any other colors?
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2024 at 10:32:41 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> This is larger and much cheaper and very well made:
>>> https://carradice.co.uk/products/super-c-rackbag
>>>
>>> It has a nylon drawstring neck that folds into the main compartment and
>>> that, when extended, allows you to carry as much as a large saddlebag --
>>> I've carried home some surprisingly large grocery loads in mine.
>>>
>>> Carradice ship quickly and reliably from the UK.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 9:05 AM Mark V  wrote:
>>>
>>>> https://www.waxwingbagco.com/store/p70/Waxwing_Trunk_Bag.html
>>>>
>>>> thinking about one of these. I think - don't hold me to it - Waxwing is
>>>> the Sackville maker.
>>>> I'd like to get one with a NITTO Mark's rack - so my RoadUno can go as
>>>> odd ball and contrarian as possible - iconoclastic! as my friend Joshua
>>>> says!
>>>>
>>>> ciao!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sunday, September 15, 2024 at 11:20:08 PM UTC-4 Nathan Mattia wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I don’t know if the Home Office is ever going to offer these new
>>>>> again, but I can’t find anything else like them.
>>>>>
>>>>> Anybody have a Large or a Small that they are looking to sell?
>>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>> .
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Patrick Moore
>>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>>> services
>>>
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>>
>>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>>
>>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>>
>> --
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>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
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Re: [RBW] Re: WTB: Sackville Trunksack Large and Small

[Patrick Moore]

Only in black, AFAIK.

I've not ordered from them in several years, but back then they were very
quick to reply to questions.

On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 11:25 AM Nathan Mattia 
wrote:

> Patrick, this is a REVELATION!  Do they make any other colors?
>
> On Tuesday, September 17, 2024 at 10:32:41 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> This is larger and much cheaper and very well made:
>> https://carradice.co.uk/products/super-c-rackbag
>>
>> It has a nylon drawstring neck that folds into the main compartment and
>> that, when extended, allows you to carry as much as a large saddlebag --
>> I've carried home some surprisingly large grocery loads in mine.
>>
>> Carradice ship quickly and reliably from the UK.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 9:05 AM Mark V  wrote:
>>
>>> https://www.waxwingbagco.com/store/p70/Waxwing_Trunk_Bag.html
>>>
>>> thinking about one of these. I think - don't hold me to it - Waxwing is
>>> the Sackville maker.
>>> I'd like to get one with a NITTO Mark's rack - so my RoadUno can go as
>>> odd ball and contrarian as possible - iconoclastic! as my friend Joshua
>>> says!
>>>
>>> ciao!
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, September 15, 2024 at 11:20:08 PM UTC-4 Nathan Mattia wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don’t know if the Home Office is ever going to offer these new again,
>>>> but I can’t find anything else like them.
>>>>
>>>> Anybody have a Large or a Small that they are looking to sell?
>>>>
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
> --
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> .
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell children's bike

[Patrick Moore]

What, as opposed to octopus hands? I meant, "as opposed to *adult *hands.

On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 11:04 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ... I wonder if most 4 to 7 year olds have the hand strength to safely
> operate hand brakes, especially when these are designed for human hands?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell children's bike

[Patrick Moore]

Others' opinions about coaster brakes for very small children?

I'm open, but I wonder if most 4 to 7 year olds have the hand strength to
safely operate hand brakes, especially when these are designed for human
hands?

I look back at my own childhood and I don't recall that the coaster brakes
on my 20" (age 6) and 24" (age 7 or 8 to 11, when I got my first hand
brakes: rod operated!)  Schwinn cruisers with rear wheel coaster brakes
only ever put me in danger, and I do very much recall the pleasure of long,
sweeping skid stops: accelerate hard on a dirt or gravel surface, then
stomp hard on the coaster brake as you make a wide, dramatic swerve up to
your stopping point.

On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 10:42 AM Nick Shoemaker 
wrote:

>
> I’m intrigued by this too, but a little puzzled by the coaster brake - can
> anyone fill me in on the logic of choosing that over hand brakes for a kids
> bike? My 4yo is riding a Woom 3 and I feel like the lack of a coaster brake
> has made for an easier transition on the type of riding available to us
> (easy singletrack, pump tracks, and greenways). I’m definitely onboard with
> a RivKid offering after seeing the inevitable latest “evolution” of Woom:
> $750, blacked-out, and be-disc’d…
>
> https://woom.com/en_US/explore-kids-bikes
> On Saturday, September 14, 2024 at 2:23:14 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I was glad to see a new Blahg:
>> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/grant-petersens-blog/augus-blahg
>>
>> There otta be a law that Grant has to produce these at least twice
>> monthly -- it's my second-favorite bicycling screed after Bike Snob.
>>
>> I would have bought a child's bike, even at $900, particularly at the
>> 2010 dollar equivalent, for my daughter if Rivendell had made them when she
>> was a child.
>>
>> With very sloping top tube, a stem with long quill, and reachback bar you
>> could probably get 6 years growth of of the bike, say age 6 to 12. Before
>> that, kiddie bikes, after that, multigeared bikes or move on to the iPhone.
>>
>> After 3 kiddie 3- and 2-wheelers I bought my daughter an Electra Townie
>> 3i* with coaster brake and 3 speed Shimano hub for her 10th birthday; she
>> loved it and the even-slacker-than-Rivendell feet-forward geometry let me
>> at 5' 10 " ride it comfortably after raising the saddle. That was a well
>> designed bike -- well designed for its market.
>>
>> * That "i." One is gobsmacked (lovely word) by the absolute lack of
>> honest in marketing. This monicker was obviously meant (this was 2011) to
>> pull buyers' emotions to feelings  of
>> "internet/digital/modern/advanced/praiseworthy" and get them slavering to
>> hand over $$. But it was a well designed and well built bike for the demo
>> and price point.
>>
>> Does anyone know *who* is trying to legally ban coaster brakes, and what
>> their alternative is that they hope to sell in the place of coaster brakes?
>>
>> https://youtu.be/k-tizOwQhMA?t=186
>>
>> Patrick "Ho Hi, Ho Hi" in ABQ, NM
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
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*Whe

Re: [RBW] Re: WTB: Sackville Trunksack Large and Small

[Patrick Moore]

This is larger and much cheaper and very well made:
https://carradice.co.uk/products/super-c-rackbag

It has a nylon drawstring neck that folds into the main compartment and
that, when extended, allows you to carry as much as a large saddlebag --
I've carried home some surprisingly large grocery loads in mine.

Carradice ship quickly and reliably from the UK.

On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 9:05 AM Mark V  wrote:

> https://www.waxwingbagco.com/store/p70/Waxwing_Trunk_Bag.html
>
> thinking about one of these. I think - don't hold me to it - Waxwing is
> the Sackville maker.
> I'd like to get one with a NITTO Mark's rack - so my RoadUno can go as odd
> ball and contrarian as possible - iconoclastic! as my friend Joshua says!
>
> ciao!
>
>
> On Sunday, September 15, 2024 at 11:20:08 PM UTC-4 Nathan Mattia wrote:
>
>> I don’t know if the Home Office is ever going to offer these new again,
>> but I can’t find anything else like them.
>>
>> Anybody have a Large or a Small that they are looking to sell?
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Knicker Quest

[Patrick Moore]

On Monday, March 2, 2020 at 7:19:02 PM UTC-5 Ron Mc wrote:
... MUSA spoiled me for the cinch at the bottom that keeps cold air from my
knees.

That feature is what disqualifies many knickers, IMO, as they are cut too
short to be cinched just below the knee and still allow sufficient room for
knee articulation.



On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 3:45 AM Will Boericke  wrote:
I knicker-ified some light wool dress uniform pants this summer.  With a
little work, you can turn a thrift store find into the perfect shoulder
season cycling wear.  For off the shelf, MTB manufacturers are the thing -
Endura comes to mind.

The most comfortable cool-weather riding pants I've ever used have been
good-quality wool dress pants cut down as knickers; I use velcro to cinch
below the knee (tabs on either seam, tabs facing backward, so that you can
cinch the cloth evenly and close the tabs neatly).

The best of about 4 such conversions was done by a professional with a pair
of very nice dress flannels with thin nylon or perhaps acetate wind (and
wear, at knees) liner from waist to knees in front and saddle wear pad,
replaceable, in a more durable but color-matching material very neatly set
in to the seat and crotch.

But this sort of conversion is as easy as cutting the legs at the right
length, hemming them, and sewing on velcro tabs.



On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 9:07 PM Nathan Mattia 
wrote:

> Deacon!  I have missed you around these parts.
> Boiled Socks!!  Yes.  We need more of this.
> Welcome back, Sir.
>

BTW, it was I and not Deacon Patrick himself who reposted his old post
about knickers (he'd responded to my inquiry about his winter gear).
Patrick-the-Deacon hasn't been on the list for years now.

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Re: [RBW] Re: “The Art of Taking it Slow” in The New Yorker

[Patrick Moore]

>>>> Ben "little brother" R
>>>>>
>>>>> On Monday, September 16, 2024 at 7:29:21 AM UTC-7 Roberta wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It’s about Grant, Rivendell, philosophies, ….
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can read one New Yorker article for free.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/09/23/the-art-of-taking-it-slow
>>>>>>
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>>> .
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: For the N+1 group

[Patrick Moore]

Will this be essentially a lighter-weight, more nimble version of the Clem?
I'll be very interested to see the final result.



On Mon, Sep 16, 2024 at 11:30 AM Mackenzy Albright <
mackenzy.albri...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ... +1 (ideally my last bike itch to scratch) is a custom via a builder in
> montreal. I wanted a lightweight swept back bar bike with a long top tube
> and lightweight tubing for 'spirited riding' - so wanted a shorter
> wheelbase unlike the new riv's despite my love for a long wheelbase. This
> one is still at the builder
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: For the N+1 group

[Patrick Moore]

Late in life after spending untold thousands trying to make bikes that I
didn't like in some big or small way into bikes that I liked entirely, I've
ended up with 3 customs that take care of all my real needs: gofast road,
errand road, and on- and off-road. I don't ride real mountain bike terrain
so I don't need a real mtb, and that saves me 1 bike; and I don't race or
ride in pacelines and that save me another bike, a gofast derailleur bike.

I finally abandoned thoughts of a Monocog replacement, for single speed
drop bar riding over sand up to 4" deep, since the added bike would not be
ridden enough and would have liabilities that would make it not worth the
hassle of ownership, but I do very much want a nice-riding lock-up-outside
beater capable of 2" or at a pinch 3" sand that will be largely invisible
to thieves and am thinking of a Clem (I  will continue to think about this
as long as I feel like it, so don't rush me, OK?). I've also I've toyed
with thoughts of a Brompton. And on day perhaps a bike with electric assist.

But when I think hard about my real needs and interests, for the immediate
future the only +1 will be a nice but (somewhat) disposable beater all
rounder -- "all" here including said sand.

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[RBW] Rivendell children's bike

[Patrick Moore]

I was glad to see a new Blahg:
https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/grant-petersens-blog/augus-blahg

There otta be a law that Grant has to produce these at least twice monthly
-- it's my second-favorite bicycling screed after Bike Snob.

I would have bought a child's bike, even at $900, particularly at the 2010
dollar equivalent, for my daughter if Rivendell had made them when she was
a child.

With very sloping top tube, a stem with long quill, and reachback bar you
could probably get 6 years growth of of the bike, say age 6 to 12. Before
that, kiddie bikes, after that, multigeared bikes or move on to the iPhone.

After 3 kiddie 3- and 2-wheelers I bought my daughter an Electra Townie 3i*
with coaster brake and 3 speed Shimano hub for her 10th birthday; she loved
it and the even-slacker-than-Rivendell feet-forward geometry let me at 5'
10 " ride it comfortably after raising the saddle. That was a well designed
bike -- well designed for its market.

* That "i." One is gobsmacked (lovely word) by the absolute lack of honest
in marketing. This monicker was obviously meant (this was 2011) to pull
buyers' emotions to feelings  of
"internet/digital/modern/advanced/praiseworthy" and get them slavering to
hand over $$. But it was a well designed and well built bike for the demo
and price point.

Does anyone know *who* is trying to legally ban coaster brakes, and what
their alternative is that they hope to sell in the place of coaster brakes?

https://youtu.be/k-tizOwQhMA?t=186

Patrick "Ho Hi, Ho Hi" in ABQ, NM

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Re: [RBW] Puzzled by 2 Rivendell recommendations

[Patrick Moore]

Yes to the IGH; far more elegant IMO than a FD and a chain tensioner not to
mention the multiple chainrings. But the defect of IGHs is the choice of
ratios, drag -- if you choose a wider-range, more-ratios hub the internal
friction increases, and if you choose the lowest drag options (several
tests have shown that the basic SA 3 speed hubs have no more drag, or even
a wee bit less drag, overall, than derailleur systems), you are limited to
the more basic 2 and 3 speed hubs which have very limited range.

But if you can get by with limited ratios, they're worth considering. I've
built very usable all-rounder beaters with the venerable, durable, and in
fact ineradicable AW, and the nice thing is that the these are very
available, very cheap -- old units are about $50 on eBay and older ones,
even the 114 mm OL ones, will work fine with 120 mm frames. I've set mine
up with 3d/high/overdrive for pavement cruising with about a 72" gear,
2nd/direct at about 54", and 1st/low/underdrive at about 41".

Couple the AW with a double ring and you can split the gaps in the AW for a
very usable 6-speed -- my second complete bike build circa 1971 had a "half
stepped" AW, tho' I used 2 cogs instead of 2 rings.

But even more exotic SA IGH are available on eBay; the wonderful AM medium
ratio hub comes up from time to time at reasonable prices (I got mine for
well under $200 each -- $150? -- IIRC in runnable condition) and again the
114 mm OL will fit 120 mm frames with only strategic anti-rotation washer
selection and placement. And, it uses the ubiquitous AW trigger shifter.
Direct, 15.5% overdrive, 0.8654% underdrive; mine are geared75/65/56". And
the AM is reputed to be, like the AW, one of SA's most durable hubs.

And even the pure gold ASC close ratio fixed 3 speed. I got my 2 very
cheaply, $200 NOS and $150 used but VG. But these are much rarer; I was
lucky.



On Thu, Sep 12, 2024 at 1:19 PM Mackenzy Albright <
mackenzy.albri...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ... I think an internal real hub like a sturmey-archer 3 speed with a
> compact double crank and paul tensioner would be an incredible build
> Price aside the roaduno is the perfect candidate for some fun builds.
>

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Re: [RBW] Puzzled by 2 Rivendell recommendations

[Patrick Moore]

I think about only 1 cyclist when I insist that he ride a Rivendell fixed
instead of single speed, and that 1 is me; or rather, I. That 1 is I, if
you see what I (1) mean.

I don't care if someone rides a Roaduno fixed or free or multispeed; my
question bears on facts and not morals. But if I got one, I'd certainly set
it up fixed, or perhaps fixed/free.

Wouldn't verticals make the frame less apt for its apparent intended use as
the single speed signified by the name?


On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 11:14 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> ... What are the reasons why you think any individual cyclist should or
> would prefer riding fixed on a RoadUno over riding a single speed with a
> freewheel?  I've got like 7 or 8 reasons why I would never set up my new
> RoadUno as a fixie*.  Do you have any reasons why I would or should set up
> my new RoadUno as a fixie?
>
> *In fact, I'm so convinced in my thinking, that my mind is made up that
> the RoadUno should have come with vertical dropouts.
>

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Re: [RBW] Puzzled by 2 Rivendell recommendations

[Patrick Moore]

Aha, got it. My fixed gear road custom has a large bb drop (forget exactly
what, but with the fixed gear it was designed to use tires as small as 24
real inches in diameter -- 559 X 23 mm -- and Grant was careful to ask me
about the narrowest tires I planned to use.

Regarding previous threads on the rack -- it's this one:
https://www.rivbike.com/products/nitto-marks-rack-m1-20108:

I didn't read the thread or threads so sorry for the repeat; but then
again, we'd lose list continuity were there not so many thread repeats. (I
read about 50% of the Boblist and of the RBW list and perhaps 17.379% of
the CR list -- seriously, about 25%.)

David P: agree: install a front brake! All my fixed gears have a front
brake (and some even have a rear).

With my lowish bb Riv fixie custom, back when I rode 22 mm actual 559
Michelin Pro Races (currently plump 27 mm RH Elk Passes, wish they were 30
mm, labeled 32 mm) I'd very occasionally hit a pedal in turns, but as I
generally am not a demon corner-er, it was never a real problem.

Idiots overloading racks: One reason Chauncey Matthews stopped building
bikes was an instance where a rack he built for a custom frame cracked --
which he had to replace -- when the rider was (said Chauncey) carrying a
hugely heavy toolkit on it while riding off road; my recollection of the
conversation. More about idiots: 2000 Prez election, Florida, when "hanging
chads" caused miscounts. The CEO of the voting machine on primetime news
was asked about making a more idiot-proof system. He replied: "Oh, we can
make a more idiot-proof system, but then they'd only invent bigger idiots."

On Tue, Sep 10, 2024 at 5:59 PM Eric Daume  wrote:

> Riv is concerned the bottom bracket drop (80mm IIRC) is too low for a
> fixed gear—pedal strike concern.
>
> I would run it fixed without hesitation.
>
> Eric
>

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[RBW] Puzzled by 2 Rivendell recommendations

[Patrick Moore]

I learn more about Riv from Bike Snob than from their website, tho' that
would easily be fixed if Grant posted more often.

Weiss has devoted a large part of several recent posts to his new Roaduno.
He mentioned these suggestions, from Rivendell, today.

First, "don't use your Roaduno as a fixed gear:"
[image: image.png]
Second, in the catalogue description of the Mark's Rack:

ALWAYS use this rack with a tether between the tall tongue-loop and the
handlebar. It's a strong little rack, but people do dumb things, and the
tether is a safety measure. Make the tether out of cord or any adjustable
strap.

I'm puzzled: first, why not use the Roaduno as a fixed gear or with a flip
flop hub?

Second, I guess this is just extreme legal self-protection against truly
clueless idiots, but do you many users of the Mark's Rack use a strap? It
seems to me that a well-designed and well-built rack used with common-sense
caution should not need such a makeshift backup.



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[RBW] Wool in summer

[Patrick Moore]

I'm curious to hear if any of y'all wear wool tops in summer, and if so,
what "summer" is in your neck of the woods: 90* humidity with 90*F temps?
110 F AZ with 5%?

I'd spent more than enough emotional energy fretting about suitable hot
weather riding tops: rayon, cotton, synthetics with their inevitable stink.*

I'd owned a couple of Rivendell summer weight Wooly Warm ss jerseys, quite
light-gauge merino knit, but sold them after they kept sagging lower and
lower and gathering snags and moth holes.

But  in late Spring this year I ordered a supremely excellent ss medium
weight jersey from Wabi Woolens. The material is rather thick compared to
the WWs, and I had to order an XL to get something from the rather
tight-fitting line to fit trimly but not cling-ingly and allow a bit of
airflow, but doggone if that jersey hasn't been very, very comfortable even
at 98*F in 10% humidity and even at 92F and high for our area 50% humidity.

So much was I struck by this that I fished out an Italian ss wool jersey
I'd bought 2nd hand years ago and until now left for that in-between season
between hot and cold. I rode in it yesterday at 90-92 and 23% and it was
comfortable as in, "I didn't even think about it." I'd extrapolate and say
that this older jersey, as well as the new WW, will be fine in any hot
weather conditions I experience here, say -- worst case -- 95* and 50%
humidity.

So, what is all y'all's experience, thoughts, judgments about wool in warm
weather?

* Synthetics, knit or woven, just stink after 1 ride, even just 1 hour. But
I found a partial antidote: immediately upon return, in the garage, remove
plastic jersey and swish around in 1 gallon of cold water from the garage
utility sink, then hang to drip dry. Sure enough, when it's dried, the
stink is gone and the jersey is good for another ride -- I can keep this up
for at least 5-7 hours of riding.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Looking for a 59cm Clem

[Patrick Moore]

That's what I need; many thanks.

On Wed, Sep 4, 2024 at 8:03 AM Ryan Frahm  wrote:

> Hi Patrick! bikeinsights.com has the geometry. I can’t link the geo chart
> directly but you can look it up there! I can’t say if it is 100% accurate
> but it seems to be. They also have the new L model so you can compare the
> two!
>
> On Wednesday, September 4, 2024 at 6:58:57 AM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Kim; that is very doable and in fact the list for a built-up Clem
>> on the Riv site is very attractive.
>>
>> Color is of least concern, especially as, for now, I am thinking of one
>> to use as a beater; patchwork or primer with a few dents would be ideal.
>> I'm much more interested in the ride feel (highly praised by all) and
>> whether I can build it to sufficiently match my personal preferences. If
>> the H has a shorter tt and a steeper head than the current model it might
>> be more compatible with those; of course, then the question is, does it
>> handle and "feel" like the L.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 3, 2024 at 5:46 PM Kim H.  wrote:
>>
>>> @Patrick,
>>> Most all Rivendell bicycles hold their resale value. Pending on what
>>> componentry the seller has on his or her bicycle and the scarcity, the
>>> price range can vary any where from $1800.00 to $4000.00.
>>>
>>> You can find a used Clem for around $1800.00 and up. I sold my 59cm for
>>> $1800.00 locally. For shipping you are looking at around $200.00 through
>>> BikeFlights.
>>>
>>> "The head tube is 71.5 degrees on the old "H" model.  On the new "L"
>>> model is 69.5 degrees. Therefore it will be a bit better for off road. It
>>> also has quite a bit more fork rake" from Ryan Frahm.
>>>
>>> What color of Clem are you specifically looking for ?
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 3, 2024 at 10:27:40 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote:
>>>
>>>> Patrick, the first Clems were made in 2 styles, the normal top tube
>>>> (H)is and the low tube (L)adies, originally called Clementine., an awesome
>>>> name. The story I read alleges "someone" took offense to the frame
>>>> name/designation, so apparently Grant gave in to the insanity and changed
>>>> it. Well I'm so offended by anyone who had a thing against the name
>>>> designations Clementine and Ladies. (tongue in cheek). No what ? ((
>>>> laughing )).   Those frames are a bit shorter in the front end than the
>>>> current model design that began in 2019 or so.  What you may pay for any of
>>>> them has everything to do with whatever satisfies the seller. Could be
>>>> nothing, $20, $2000. (( shrugs and a smile )).
>>>> On Tuesday, September 3, 2024 at 12:52:23 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What is the difference between the Clem L and the Clem H? Are there
>>>>> any other Clem models besides the L and H? If so, pray, what? And how are
>>>>> they different from the L and H?
>>>>>
>>>>> Last question: Are any of these models likely to be cheaper on the
>>>>> used market than others?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>
>>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Looking for a 59cm Clem

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Kim; that is very doable and in fact the list for a built-up Clem
on the Riv site is very attractive.

Color is of least concern, especially as, for now, I am thinking of one to
use as a beater; patchwork or primer with a few dents would be ideal. I'm
much more interested in the ride feel (highly praised by all) and whether I
can build it to sufficiently match my personal preferences. If the H has a
shorter tt and a steeper head than the current model it might be more
compatible with those; of course, then the question is, does it handle and
"feel" like the L.

On Tue, Sep 3, 2024 at 5:46 PM Kim H.  wrote:

> @Patrick,
> Most all Rivendell bicycles hold their resale value. Pending on what
> componentry the seller has on his or her bicycle and the scarcity, the
> price range can vary any where from $1800.00 to $4000.00.
>
> You can find a used Clem for around $1800.00 and up. I sold my 59cm for
> $1800.00 locally. For shipping you are looking at around $200.00 through
> BikeFlights.
>
> "The head tube is 71.5 degrees on the old "H" model.  On the new "L" model
> is 69.5 degrees. Therefore it will be a bit better for off road. It also
> has quite a bit more fork rake" from Ryan Frahm.
>
> What color of Clem are you specifically looking for ?
>
> Kim Hetzel.
>
> On Tuesday, September 3, 2024 at 10:27:40 AM UTC-7 Garth wrote:
>
>> Patrick, the first Clems were made in 2 styles, the normal top tube (H)is
>> and the low tube (L)adies, originally called Clementine., an awesome name.
>> The story I read alleges "someone" took offense to the frame
>> name/designation, so apparently Grant gave in to the insanity and changed
>> it. Well I'm so offended by anyone who had a thing against the name
>> designations Clementine and Ladies. (tongue in cheek). No what ? ((
>> laughing )).   Those frames are a bit shorter in the front end than the
>> current model design that began in 2019 or so.  What you may pay for any of
>> them has everything to do with whatever satisfies the seller. Could be
>> nothing, $20, $2000. (( shrugs and a smile )).
>> On Tuesday, September 3, 2024 at 12:52:23 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> What is the difference between the Clem L and the Clem H? Are there any
>>> other Clem models besides the L and H? If so, pray, what? And how are they
>>> different from the L and H?
>>>
>>> Last question: Are any of these models likely to be cheaper on the used
>>> market than others?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Looking for a 59cm Clem

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Garth. I hadn't followed the model's genesis.

Can any owner and rider say how the H compares in handling and overall "fit
and feel" to the L?

Does anyone know where to find the geom specs for the H?

Thanks.

On Tue, Sep 3, 2024 at 11:27 AM Garth  wrote:

> Patrick, the first Clems were made in 2 styles, the normal top tube (H)is
> and the low tube (L)adies, originally called Clementine., an awesome name.
> The story I read alleges "someone" took offense to the frame
> name/designation, so apparently Grant gave in to the insanity and changed
> it. Well I'm so offended by anyone who had a thing against the name
> designations Clementine and Ladies. (tongue in cheek). No what ? ((
> laughing )).   Those frames are a bit shorter in the front end than the
> current model design that began in 2019 or so.  What you may pay for any of
> them has everything to do with whatever satisfies the seller. Could be
> nothing, $20, $2000. (( shrugs and a smile )).
> On Tuesday, September 3, 2024 at 12:52:23 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> What is the difference between the Clem L and the Clem H? Are there any
>> other Clem models besides the L and H? If so, pray, what? And how are they
>> different from the L and H?
>>
>> Last question: Are any of these models likely to be cheaper on the used
>> market than others?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 3, 2024 at 10:25 AM Tristen Moss  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> At this point I’m pretty dead set on a 59 Clem L.
>>
>>
>>
>>> On Monday, September 2, 2024 at 3:41:59 PM UTC-7 Tom wrote:
>>>
>>>> Very welcome.  Have you considered a used H model in a 59?
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Looking for a 59cm Clem

[Patrick Moore]

What is the difference between the Clem L and the Clem H? Are there any
other Clem models besides the L and H? If so, pray, what? And how are they
different from the L and H?

Last question: Are any of these models likely to be cheaper on the used
market than others?

Thanks.

On Tue, Sep 3, 2024 at 10:25 AM Tristen Moss  wrote:

>
> At this point I’m pretty dead set on a 59 Clem L.



>
> On Monday, September 2, 2024 at 3:41:59 PM UTC-7 Tom wrote:
>
>> Very welcome.  Have you considered a used H model in a 59?
>
>

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[RBW] Jersey claimed; payment pending.

[Patrick Moore]

On Sat, Aug 31, 2024 at 1:27 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ... And why not: trying again:
>
> NIP (installed with fingers but never ridden) Suntour XC Pro Greaseguard
> bb bearing assembly, 125 mm spindle, $100 shipped CONUS.
>
> Phil 130 mm BB bearing assembly, bearings replaced by Phil 207 miles ago,
> $100 shipped CONUS.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] The Heaviest Rivendell

[Patrick Moore]

Fun thread; I'll play. Digital scale.

My 2 contestants are not Rivs but were built using Rivs as models, so
perhaps they count. Ready to ride with 2 cages and 2 pedals, etc.

Matthews #1 "Road Bike For Dirt;" 33.25 lb with full Large Revelate
"Tangle" (?? I think) frame bag full of off road repair kit for goathead
country), Kelpie 90 mm (arc) 150% gauge (sheet + struts) fenders, rear
rack, full lighting system, and empty Carradice Super C Rack Top Bag. (I
was pleasantly surprised that the ensemble was this light.)

Matthews #1 "Road Bike For Road" Riv Road Clone: 28.59 lb with VO 26" 50 mm
fenders, f + r racks, stuffed-full Ruthworks Large seat bag, full lighting
sytem, and the heavy bit: 1956 ASC 3 speed fixed gear hub -- but not the
pair of older Ortlieb Sports Packers that are generally on the rear rack.
These probably weigh about 4 lb the pair. I am dismayed that it weighs so
much, if I think about it too hard.

I think I measured this same bike at 26 with Surley flip flop fixed wheel +
17/19 Dingle and no seat bag, and I think that sans racks and fenders and
any luggage but with lighting and pedals and cages it's about 25 lb with
ASC hub, 21 with Surly hub.

My 1 remaining Rivendell weighs 18 lb on the nose without the Small
Sackville and repair kit.

On Sat, Aug 31, 2024 at 11:15 AM dstein  wrote:

> I didn’t want my first post in years to be a FS: one (see previous post),
> so thought I’d contribute to the discussion :). I enjoy reading about the
> ‘lightest rivendell’ in the other thread, but…what is your heaviest
> Rivendell?!? No rules. Whatever you got on it right now.
>
> Mine is a Rosco Bubbe (bronze) at 26 pounds, no water bottles or bags. I
> was a bit surprised, gonna have to load it up some more. In fact I had 3
> bikes all right around 26 pounds, including a Frank Jones, Sr. 26 seems to
> be the sweet spot.
>
> My heaviest bikes in the stable is a Jones at 34 pounds. But somehow feels
> the lightest?
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Wolf Tooth 8-Bit multitool: Works well? Worth $70?

[Patrick Moore]

Garth: Thanks, understand, I also have carried multitudinous specialized
small tools instead of trying to get them all in 1 proprietary assemblage.
My problem with that is, that I tend to lose things, especially if they are
small. Also, the IDEA of a very compact tool that carries everything that I
could conceivably need for my riding is a very appealing IDEA.

I know from 9-sp chains, having bought a 50% share in a big bulk order of
cheap SRAM 9 speeders a decade ago -- I use them for my fixed gears and
ss's  b/c DIngles require 9 speed or narrower -- and I still have a few
left. But the bike in question has an 11 speed chain (10 sp drivetrain), so
pliers alas necessary.

Brian: Thanks for the details. I understand about losing small things but
I'd hope that the magnets would help with that.

I think I'm going to order one.

On Sat, Aug 31, 2024 at 6:02 AM Garth  wrote:

>
> I can't speak to it being worth $70 or not. With any multi-tool though,
> they're only as useful as the various bits can actually fit where and how
> you need them to on your particular bicycle. The angles and extentions and
> such, not to mention the tolerances of a particlar bit. Park multi-tools
> are to me notoriuosly bad in that regard. Myself I'd rather carry any
> individual tools that I've tried and actually work anywhere on my bike.
> It's not like I carry a shop kit with me, we're talking very small
> differences in weight and volume here relative to the tool kits. For
> example, SRAM 8-9 speed chain quick links don't need any pliers, your
> chains may be different. I carry a pair of disposable nitrile gloves if
> needed. It's really just knowing yourself and your various parts.
> On Friday, August 30, 2024 at 9:02:55 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>>
>> https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/bike-accessories/bike-tools-maintenance/bike-tools/tools-for-your-ride/wolf-tooth-8-bit-multi-tool-pack-pliers/p/35658/
>>
>> I've been looking for a multitool that can tighten valve stem locknuts
>> and came across this. It gets pretty good reviews -- users say that it's
>> actually usable tho' the stubby bits make some recessed bolts hard to
>> reach, and it has the all important T25 Torx wrench as well as all the
>> allens from 2 to 8, spoke wrench, valve core wrench (and valve "rasp" to
>> unclog valves), and screwdrivers all carried inside the handle which can
>> also carry a chain masterlink. The masterlink pliers double as a valve stem
>> locknut pliers.
>>
>> I think that it might be a good replacement for the older Crank Bros
>> multitool I carry on the Matthews dirt road bike.
>>
>> Has anyone used this? Do you advise paying $70 for it?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Clem musings

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, McKenzy, good to know.

On Fri, Aug 30, 2024 at 10:28 AM Mackenzy Albright <
mackenzy.albri...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Patrick - I run 2.3 with honjo flat 65's on my clementine. I had
> previously installed 2.4 tires no fenders with plenty of clearance. I
> definitely could have installed 2.5 easily - maaaybe 2.6. I briefly owned a
> newer Clem jr and clearance was identical.
>
> I think the initial marketing of the Clem (entine)+(jr) was based around
> smaller tires (50mm) and fenders. People realized they have ample tire
> clearance for large tires and people started building them more as capable
> hillibikes vs city cruisers.
>
> On Friday, August 30, 2024 at 6:26:17 AM UTC-7 Kim H. wrote:
>
>> @Patrick
>> When I owned a 59cm Clem, I ran 29x2.25 Schwalbe Racing Ralph tires with
>> no fenders.
>>
>>
>> https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/schwalbe-racing-ralph-super-race-tle-addix-speed-evo-folding-mtb-tyre-29-216800.html?utm_campaign=googlebase-US&utm_source=googlebase&utm_medium=shopping&utm_term=Mountain+Bike+Tyres&ucpo=134396
>>
>> Kim Hetzel.
>> On Thursday, August 29, 2024 at 7:47:58 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Ray for this and the link; I read the content through again. That
>>> means that, if the 59 is the best size for my uses -- need to get my
>>> brother to help me measure PBH after all these years -- I could use my
>>> leftover ultralight 60 mm 700C Big Ones under fenders on a Clem.
>>>
>>> One problem solved. Though the problem of turning a beater into
>>> something too precious to lock up remains as does the bar question and the
>>> drivetrain question -- no common derailleur system for me. That's my plan:
>>> a well used frameset to build into a nice riding beater, tho' the complete
>>> builds offered by Riv are surprisingly cheap.
>>>
>>> I'm close to asking onlist for offers of well used and well-beausaged 59
>>> cm Clem framesets.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 7:19 PM Ray Varella  wrote:
>>>
>>>> Patrick,
>>>> Somewhere I recall seeing Grant had put 2.6” knobbies on one of his
>>>> Clems.
>>>> I have 60mm G-ones on mine and they have plenty of clearance.
>>>> I would encourage you to visit Riv in person, flights are cheap if
>>>> you’re willing to hunt for deals and both San Francisco and Oakland
>>>> airports have BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) stations and Riv is just a
>>>> block or two from the Walnut Creek station.
>>>> Imagine being able to do all your fretting in person and take some test
>>>> rides.
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
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[RBW] Wolf Tooth 8-Bit multitool: Works well? Worth $70?

[Patrick Moore]

https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/equipment/bike-accessories/bike-tools-maintenance/bike-tools/tools-for-your-ride/wolf-tooth-8-bit-multi-tool-pack-pliers/p/35658/

I've been looking for a multitool that can tighten valve stem locknuts and
came across this. It gets pretty good reviews -- users say that it's
actually usable tho' the stubby bits make some recessed bolts hard to
reach, and it has the all important T25 Torx wrench as well as all the
allens from 2 to 8, spoke wrench, valve core wrench (and valve "rasp" to
unclog valves), and screwdrivers all carried inside the handle which can
also carry a chain masterlink. The masterlink pliers double as a valve stem
locknut pliers.

I think that it might be a good replacement for the older Crank Bros
multitool I carry on the Matthews dirt road bike.

Has anyone used this? Do you advise paying $70 for it?

Thanks.

-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] The Lightest Rivendell

[Patrick Moore]

I've been using the ineffably wonderful Dura Ace SPD pedals (MTB-type
pedals but 1-sided) for years and I even use them on the stripped-down,
18-lb gofast fixed gear, but I could drop 1/4 lb by swapping them for the
Xpedos that I've been hoarding, also for years, because they are so light:
about 250 grams the pair to the DA's 360. This model of the Xpedos has
titanium spindles with a 185 lb official weight limit -- this has the
aluminum body, not the ultra-chi-chi magnesium body. I'm at least 10 and
perhaps 15 lb below that but I've hesitated to install them since
occasionally I torque the pedals considerably when climbing -- tho' at my
age this torque has much diminished. And the Xpedos are 2-sided to boot.


> On Sunday, August 25, 2024 at 2:38:06 PM UTC-7 char...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Oh ho! I'm actually attempting to build a (relatively) lightweight Roadeo
>> but with 2 caveats – as much silver and no carbon I've gotten it to
>> about 21 1/2 pounds but aiming for sub 20... Appreciate any
>> thoughts/suggestions.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Clem musings

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks Ray for this and the link; I read the content through again. That
means that, if the 59 is the best size for my uses -- need to get my
brother to help me measure PBH after all these years -- I could use my
leftover ultralight 60 mm 700C Big Ones under fenders on a Clem.

One problem solved. Though the problem of turning a beater into something
too precious to lock up remains as does the bar question and the drivetrain
question -- no common derailleur system for me. That's my plan: a well used
frameset to build into a nice riding beater, tho' the complete builds
offered by Riv are surprisingly cheap.

I'm close to asking onlist for offers of well used and well-beausaged 59 cm
Clem framesets.


On Thu, Aug 29, 2024 at 7:19 PM Ray Varella  wrote:

> Patrick,
> Somewhere I recall seeing Grant had put 2.6” knobbies on one of his Clems.
> I have 60mm G-ones on mine and they have plenty of clearance.
> I would encourage you to visit Riv in person, flights are cheap if you’re
> willing to hunt for deals and both San Francisco and Oakland airports have
> BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) stations and Riv is just a block or two from
> the Walnut Creek station.
> Imagine being able to do all your fretting in person and take some test
> rides.
>

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[RBW] Clem musings

[Patrick Moore]

Breaking off from the Gus thread to think out loud about a Clem addition to
my stable.

Tire width: thanks, Nick; that's really good to know.

Has the Clem design been altered recently to allow fatter tires? I have
vague memories of asking about max tire width several times before and
hearing that ~50 mm was max ...?

Just looked at the frame specs: max width for all sizes is given as 55 mm?
Is this just proactive conservatism?

Bar: Alexis: I'd really like to try something like the Billie or Choco or
Albatross flipped upside down; or perhaps a much narrower North Road ditto,
since I dislike really wide bars; but I've at least a score of non-drops
and have never, ever found one that doesn't hurt my left palm -- very
sensitive -- after a couple of miles. The closest was a Map Ahearne bar
severely trimmed with Ergon grips, but even with that, going back to a
(basically no-reach) Hover drop, this on the long-tt Monocog, was like
coming home again.

I see that the effective tt for the 59 is 68.5 mm. I'll have to figure out
how much of that you get back from the 71.5* sta and the 69.5 hta compared
to my usual ~56.5 cm with 73 sta. But I suppose I could get back 60 or 70
mm with a no-reach stem compare to my usual 80 and use a very short reach
bar like the 70 mm Hover instead of the 115 mm-reach RH Maes Parallel and
make up any leftovers with the higher bar placement I'd expect for such a
bike.

In fact, with the max tire width no longer a question, the 2 remaining
hesitations are vertical dropouts and the bar question. Oh, and a third:
the temptation to keep upgrading a nice beater until I am no longer
comfortable leaving it locked outside.

I want to use an IGH or single speed hub. I could use hubs with a freewheel
and use a tensioner but I'd really  like a fixed drivetrain. I'm tempted to
try the floating chainring chain tensioning solution which should be
relatively easy with the very long stays.

So the upshot is I want to take a nice frame and use it for something
contrary to what it was designed for. I suppose that's typical.

Meanwhile I'll fret about it until, maybe, I do something about it. But a
Clem is on a provisional short list.


On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 12:35 PM Nick Shoemaker 
wrote:

> ... @Patrick: My Clem is a size 64 on 700c Cliffhangers ( 25mm internal
> width) running tubes - I didn't have calipers on hand, but my measuring
> tape estimate came to ~65-66mm for the 29x2.6" Mezcal. It certainly runs
> bigger than the 29x2.6" Nobby Nic that I used for a short time, which is my
> only other point of reference. I also totally agree with you on unpaved
> tire pressures - back in my 'racy' days I would run ~16psi on my tubeless
> 26x2.4" - even 20psi resulted in a noticeable hit to traction. I'm about
> 20lbs heaver now (140>160), but I'm guessing I had the big Mezcals down to
> ~20psi with tubes on my last ride and they felt great.
>

On Wed, Aug 28, 2024 at 3:04 PM R. Alexis  wrote:

> Patrick,
>
> What non drop bars are you considering? The Alt-Bars that are out there
seem to work well. At least for me. I have a set of early Jones titanium
H-Bars with the J bend on my Waterford 1400 mountain bike and a set of
Surly Open Bars on the Gary Fisher Gemini tandem mounted on the front. Both
bars are comfortable. I have several bikes sporting Wilderness Trail Bikes
Dirt Drops that I really like and my Schwinn Voyageur has a Nitto flared
drop bar (014) on it.

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Re: [RBW] Re: A FSA Duron issue, or head tube reaming/facing needed..or both?

[Patrick Moore]

Lol. At least you used a block of wood. Long ago I installed a nice Logic
headset in the same way, except I was lazy and didn't bother to find a
block of wood. Last-gen-chromo Specialized Crossroads Cruz. I managed to
chip a bit out of the skirt of one of the races but all still went in
straight and true and I never had any problems with the headset.

Now I use a threaded rod and really big fender washers.


On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 10:22 AM Mackenzy Albright <
mackenzy.albri...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ... Since then I've always just carefully filed the paint flat and mashed
> away at the headset with a hammer and block of wood and a bunch of grease
> trusting the machining is correct on the frame and headset.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Gus Boots a-go-go

[Patrick Moore]

I saw others' posts about >2.35" tires on their Clems, so I extend the same
questions to all.

If I get a Clem I'll use -- what should I call them? Road tires?
Non-knobbies? -- durable +/- 60 mm near-slicks for decent pavement rolling
as well as decent sand float. I used the Big Apple for years and it's a
worthy ~inexpensive tire for all rounder use that, besides, is
*almost* goathead-proof
with tubes and without sealant -- I live in goathead land.

Pressure: I am repeatedly surprised by the high pressures others use. I put
18 or so PSI in my 700C Big Apples for combined pavement and sandy dirt use
and once road them as low as 10 psi by mistake (tubes): that worked very
well on dirt and I didn't notice it until I got back onto pavement. I use
18 to 20 psi in my much, much lighter and much mush narrower 49 mm RH
Oracle Ridges, regular casing, for nice pavement cornering and sufficient
sand float (50 mm is minimum for our sand).

Patrick "Pavement: 27 mm Elk Passes els at 50-55/55-60; 42 mm Naches Passes
els at 30-35/35-40; to run 22 mm Michelin Pro Races at 80/90; all at
170-175 lb" Moore

On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 9:32 AM Brian Turner  wrote:

> I am running tubeless 2.5" Teravail Ehline tires on my 54cm (medium) Gus.
> I enjoy the tubeless setup because when I ride local mtb trails I typically
> drop the pressure down to 20-24 lbs psi. without worry of pinching, and it
> allows for a cushy ride. Then, I'll inflate them back up to 32-35 psi for
> riding around town. The Ehlines are a great balance of relatively low
> rolling resistance and low noise for pavement, but great for traction in
> dirt. As for clearance, it really depends on the tire and most importantly
> which brake you're using. I'm using Motolites, so I only have about < 1cm
> of clearance from the quick release arm. No room for any larger tires, or
> fenders with this particular brake / tire combo.
>
> Brian
> Lex KY
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Gus Boots a-go-go

[Patrick Moore]

Nick: As a potential Clem buyer I'm curious to know whether your wheels are
650c or 700c or 559 bsd, and (#2) how wide the 2.6" tires actually measure
on your rims ... *and* how wide those rims are, whether IW or OW.

I think a great deal of buying a Clem; 2 things make me hesitate (well, 3
things: I'm still semi-supporting my daughter who is trying to get her
first real job, meanwhile planning all sorts of interesting,
non-income-generating programs): whether I can tolerate some sort of
non-drop bar well enough that it doesn't mar the otherwise wonderful
experience that others all say that riding the Clem is (this is both from
within and from without the RBW list), and second, whether I can get fat
enough tires into the frame to make the bike at least tolerably useful on
our sandy riverside trails.

2.6" = 66 mm which is more than wide enough if the 2.6" is real-world
width. I'd be happy with 60 real-world-mm tires and daydream of setting up
a low-budget all-rounder beater Clem with, say, 26" or 700c Big Apples. Do
your Mezcals measure a true >60 mm?

Thanks.

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Re: [RBW] NBD: Sheldon's Ram!

[Patrick Moore]

Congratulations! I take it that that is Sheldon's gear chart, too? Please
do post photos of your own modifications.

Patrick Moore, who recalls scrupulously calculating and typing out gear
charts to tape to his stem -- tho' I always liked much closer ratios than
Sheldon tolerated.

On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 8:13 AM Nick Shoemaker 
wrote:

> If ya know, ya know
>
> Sheldon was a huge influence in my early descent into bike obsession, and
> I doubt I would be here today as a competent mechanic, former wheelbuilder,
> fixie-converter, Riv-rider, etc, etc. without his incomparable
> contributions to the bicycle community. Sheldon made the world a better
> place, plain and simple!
>
> So imagine my delight when his beautiful orange Ram showed up on ebay a
> couple of months ago and I somehow managed to win the auction! The bike is
> currently an impeccable time capsule, with everything but the tires
> matching the build description on his website. I intend to ride it, and
> will no doubt tinker (Sheldon-style) to try out a few different iterations
> for fun (fixie? 650b conversion? upright/swept-back?). Anyhow, enjoy a few
> pictures to revel in the nostalgia:
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/Jn1fwQzemxZKRxt88
>
>
> PS: I'm sticking with the Bio-Pace...  :)
>
> --

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Re: [RBW] Re: Do you ride with fenders?

[Patrick Moore]

Just read Peter's note so I went out to re-measure the Kelpies. They are 80
mm in chord and 90 mm in arc.

On Tue, Aug 27, 2024 at 2:16 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ...  the Kelpies were designed to cover 700c X 60s ... and to cover 584 X
> 75s which they would just cover though I never bothered with 650c wheels
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Do you ride with fenders?

[Patrick Moore]

IME the rear fender that tends to get banged up more than the front,
particularly when carrying the bike in a motor vehicle, but also when
carelessly backing it up or running it backward into a floor stand. I often
amputate the rear fender so that its trailing edge ends just aft of the
point on the tire where spray will hit a tall rear rack bag. Unless you
regularly ride your bike in a group in the rain this provides ample
coverage. (And, also IME, take the trouble to measure twice and cut once. I
measured, or rather *guessed*, when amputating the very expensive rear
Kelpie in the dirt road Matthews (the custom rack has a fender boss at the
center of the bottom rear edge of the rack) and had to install a 6" rear
mudflap to keep stuff off me and my rack bag.)

As for tire size: the Kelpies were designed to cover 700c X 60s: 29 1/2" X
61-2 mm actual, and they do that well; and to cover 584 X 75s which they
would just cover though I never bothered with 650c wheels. As things are,
the 49 mm Oracle Ridges are rather lost under the Kelpis but they don't
look worse than the 29 mm actual Elk Passes that for a while I installed
under 50 mm VOs on the pavement only Matthews.

Lastly, even shorties or clip-ons help a lot, not only to keep wet stuff
off you and the bike, but even to keep a lot of dust off you and the upper
parts of the bike. I had permanent clip-ons on the Monocog for that reason.

Question: in old *entre les guerres* photos of pro racers you often see wee
mini fenders under the fork crown. Much later, in the 1970s, I'd often see
such wee fenders under the rear caliper as well. What was the purpose of
these very truncated mini-fenders? 1930s: to keep the headset free of stuff
thrown up from the still-common dirt roads? 1970s: ??? Fashion? I can't
imagine how these would keep any splash off the rider.

On Mon, Aug 26, 2024 at 1:23 PM DavidP  wrote:

> I have more roadish and all-rounder bikes with fenders than without. A
> bike "build" will include a decision of fenders or no and then stay that
> way until rebuilt/repurposed.
>
> In addition to the benefits others have shared, I find that riding just
> after rain is a wonderful experience made better with fenders.
>
> Potential drawbacks:
> - need to be a bit less cavalier both on and off the bike
> - not as easy to transport the bike
> - smaller max tire size (but as long as the tire size matches the use,
> this isn't a big factor)
>
> I tend to bring fenderless bikes on short family vacations, but if I was
> traveling for an extended bike trip I like Pam's suggestion for packing
> fenders.
>

Patrick Moore, agressively bottom-trimming in ABQ, NM.

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Re: [RBW] The Lightest Rivendell

[Patrick Moore]

Hah! The very standard 26" wheels for my 2003 Curt -- Sun M14A "semi-aero"
rims + 32 Revolution spokes with alum nipples and 8 speed Ultegra hubs +
Velox -- came in at under 1550 w/o QRs.

On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 2:50 PM Bernard Duhon 
wrote:

> Because of the rush to carbon wheels & disc brakes the Ebay market for rim
> brake “racing” wheels if very soft.
>
> I have seen 1,500gram wheelsets that were $1,100.00 new selling for
> $400.00.
>
>
>
> OF course with wheels you are taking a chance on the wear they may have
> been thru.
>
>
>
> I have some lightly used campy protons I could let go if you are
> interested.
>
>
>
> Bernard
>
>
>
> *From:* rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> *On Behalf Of *Brent Eastman
> *Sent:* Sunday, August 25, 2024 11:03 AM
> *To:* RBW Owners Bunch 
> *Subject:* [RBW] The Lightest Rivendell
>
>
>
> Who's got it?
>
>
>
> I've seen beautiful lightweight lugged road bikes with super light modern
> components, but they usually are not Rivs. Has anyone gone full out shaving
> grams off a Roadeo, Roadini, or older Riv model?
>
>
>
> I know we're not weight weenies here, I'm certainly not. I did get the
> itch after building up my Roadini to make it even lighter (and faster?).
> However, the reason I love Rivs is that they are IMO the best blend of
> aesthetic beauty, reliable, durable, (fast seems to come last which is
> fine). My build was a tightly budgeted mix of parts bin, eBay NOS, and new
> parts. Would I try carbon wheels on it? Yes! Would I spend a bunch of
> money? No.
>
>
>
> It does seem like in the last decade, the gravel itch has spread, and
> there could be some high end road bike parts floating around for low
> prices. I'm just brainstorming about what my winter project will be.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Patrick Moore]

Lol. When I ordered my first road custom in late 1994 I asked Grant to
build me a road bike like my '92 XO-1 but "better." (He said, "Oh, it'll be
better.")

He used the AR as a basic template tho' with road tubing and lugs, so it
was 54 cm c-c (again, I'm 60 c-c for a level tt fistful road bike). I told
him teasingly that I was going to broadcast this -- even then he was known
for proselytizing about big frames -- and he said, "Don't you dare."

On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 6:57 AM Sarah Carlson 
wrote:

> Their gentle suggestion... "Do not EVEN try to get Grant to do this."
>
> On Friday, August 23, 2024 at 8:02:12 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Will asked for a curated photo-shoot this morning.  Of course I was happy
>> to oblige.  Will indicated it was Grant who was concerned that others would
>> demand that Riv replicate the Lindsay treatment, which is why Will put in
>> the language that Riv can't replicate my build.
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: The Lightest Rivendell

[Patrick Moore]

With fenders and rack under 20 lb: Bill's Roadeo must take the prize! I
figure my custom would be 20 lb min with 2X10.

IIRC, I did get my 2003 Curt (frame was clone of the Joe Starck) in its
original build as a gofast 1X10 in at 20 lb with Speedplay X-1s and 2 Iris
cages. But no rack or fenders. Both 2003 and 1999 are medium sized frames;
I'm about Bill's size.


On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 2:27 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> In fact, if Bill has derailleur drivetrain bikes under 20 lb they beat --
> for weight skimming -- my Joe Starck gofast.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: The Lightest Rivendell

[Patrick Moore]

In fact, if Bill has derailleur drivetrain bikes under 20 lb they beat --
for weight skimming -- my Joe Starck gofast. That's 18 lb on the nose with
heavy Phil hubs and 360 gram Dura Ace (MTB) SPD pedals and 52X 17/19 Dingle
and old Dura Ace QR on the rear, the only "stupid light" part being a
titanium stem binder bolt. 175 gram Elk Pass tires.

And *two!* Iris bottle cages -- had it originally built for just 1 cage but
Chauncey added a second.

I know that Bill has showcased the Legolas and Roadeo before, but perhaps
he'd be kind enough to restate how these are built up and link to a photo
or 2.



On Sun, Aug 25, 2024 at 11:09 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> I approached the build concept for both my Legolas and my Roadeo with a
> focus on lower weight.  Both are under 20 pounds.  The Roadeo is under 20
> pounds with full fenders and with a front rack, which I'm pretty proud of.
>
> Patrick Moore has a far lighter "Rivendell" but it's his custom with small
> wheels and a single fixed drivetrain and only one brake.  I think he's in
> the 17-pound neighborhood.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Do you ride with fenders?

[Patrick Moore]

>From memory: pair 26" X ~70 mm (just fit over 60 mm Big Apples) SKS's
weighed 2 lb.

Pair 650b X 50 Berthouds (st steel) also 2 lb.

Pair 26" VO aluminum 50s 1 lb.

Pair ditto Honjos also 1 lb.

Pair Kelpie 80 mm 700c X 80, 50% thicker alum sheet, 50 or 100% thicker
stays: 2 lb. (I lost ~1/2 lb by amputating 1/3 of the rear and losing the
stays since the custom rack as a fender boss at bottom rear.)

These Kelpies are about 2X as long as the short 26" SKS ~70s -- much fuller
coverage for 3" taller wheel.

So, not much weight at all, and alum fenders are lighter than SKS's of more
or less the same size and of course than s steel.

Patrick "my Joe Starck gofast will never wear fenders" Moore

On Sat, Aug 24, 2024 at 2:59 PM nlerner  wrote:

> ... For a very flat course, the fender weight penalty didn’t really matter.

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[RBW] Re: Northern Hemisphere Summer 2024 Photos -- Bosque neighborhoods, July & Aug 2024

[Patrick Moore]

One more (need to organize my thoughts as well as my photos): I'm using the
camera on an iPhone 8 and in our mile-high summer sun it's hard to see the
screen; and then there's my so-far hopeless photo inability. I wonder if
it's worth buying an inexpensive digital camera that lets you look through
a viewfinder ...? Or, if one is incorrigibly incompetent with an iPhone
camera, will that mean that buying another camera is simply a waste of
money?

I emphasize "cheap." I know my daughter took good photos with this iP 8 (I
use her cast-offs) so perhaps the wisest thing is to get better at taking
snapshots (and I also emphasize "snap" shots).

Thoughts?

Patrick Moore, who did finally get a monocular for beast watching on bosque
rides.

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[RBW] Re: Northern Hemisphere Summer 2024 Photos -- Bosque neighborhoods, July & Aug 2024

[Patrick Moore]

Forgot to add of course: I'm undertaken a modest and haphazard project to
collect photos of bosque area neighborhoods. I find this interesting in
itself, but it also provides a reason to do the sort of riding I used to
enjoy as a boy, just riding around a city to explore different
neighborhoods. I recall doing this in Delhi as a 12 year old on my
hot-rodded (crimson repaint, aftermarket AW hub) road brake Hero,
particularly the neighborhoods where a couple of girls I fancied lived.

I had through that a Clem or suchlike might be the ideal bike for this, but
today I rode the Joe Starck gofast and I was very pleasantly surprised at
how much I enjoyed just toodling around Los Duranes as an extended detour
from the RG bike path. The bike is perfect comfortable for this sort of
riding as for just about all other pavement riding.

I stopped at Albertson's on the way home and the Sackvill Small carried:

1 "handle" of Gordon's London gin
1 quart of lemon juice
1 pint of dill pickles
1 pint of whole mile
Fat loaf of P Farm whole wheat

Pretty good since the bag already contained a medium sized dopp kit with
bike stuff in it and a Lezyne minipump

On Sat, Aug 24, 2024 at 3:41 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I haven't yet figured out how to get photos from my iPhone to my Mac
> (neither iCloud nor iPhoto are cooperating) so I've had to manually send
> them by email to the Mac and download. Also, I apparently managed to lose a
> passle of better photos from the Thomas Village neighborhood which I will
> find or re-take.
>
> I mean to: find a way to download photos, then organize them, then get
> them onto a web page, but here is a start.
>
> There're the enclaves off of Valley View Road, then Thomas Village -- just
> a street since I lost the other photos, then Los Duranes from this
> afternoon.
>
> The VV neighborhoods are unpscale enclaves tucked in behind Coors Blvd --
> my ex and I lived in one before our divorce; Thomas Village is also a
> modestly upscale one  just East of the RG recreational path (over a little
> footbridge) and just South of Candelaria, and Los Duranes, the most
> interesting, is an old pre-development North Valley neighborhood named
> after the founding family. Working class, Hispanic, with the odd new
> treeless and sterile McMansion looking for cheaper land.
>


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Re: [RBW] Do you ride with fenders?

[Patrick Moore]

Here in ABQ, NM with a citywide average of 9" of precipitation per year
(higher near the mountains, less on the Westside; our "monsoon" rain comes
either in 15 minute torrents or -- often -- in 10 minutes "spits" of .01"
to .05", like the rain during the last 2 nights), but I still have
permanent full fenders on 2 bikes because I'll occasionally ride during a
rain shower or in snow melt, I want well-installed and good looking
fenders, and this, for me means metal which I dislike repeatedly installing
and removing. And, for the dirt road bike, fenders do help noticeably in
keeping find dust off the upper parts of the bike; not to mention the
widely distributed horse shit. Even my former Monocog had shorties
permanently installed.

On Fri, Aug 23, 2024 at 9:53 PM Stephen Durfee  wrote:

> I'm packing my bike for a summer road trip - my son and I are flying to
> Buffalo, NY and riding the Erie Canal route to Albany, visiting friends and
> family along the way. As I fit my bike into a cardboard box for travel, I'm
> wondering whether to add fenders to the box...
>
> In NorCal, we know that rain pretty much comes in the winter months only,
> and so most of my bikes don't wear fenders. That said, I do have fenders on
> my commuter, and appreciate the value they bring...I would have taken them
> off for the summer, but either I forgot, or was too lazy...
>
> Which leads to the question - who rides with fenders, and do you leave
> them on year 'round?
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Patrick Moore]

ous, have a pro do it.  If you want the practice, find a pro that will
>>>>> oversee you doing it.
>>>>>
>>>>> BL in EC
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, August 21, 2024 at 8:12:56 AM UTC-7 Michael Connors
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Bill. I am nervous about running a tap in the RD hanger.  How do
>>>>>> you make sure that you are in the existing thread and not cutting a new 
>>>>>> one?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thread chasing was necessary on the RD hanger, but it was aligned
>>>>>> perfectly.  Most but not all of the H2O bolt and fender bolt bosses were
>>>>>> already chased.  It was all straightforward prep for a mechanic.  There 
>>>>>> was
>>>>>> no BB cable guide included, but I had those on-hand.  I installed a 
>>>>>> Shimano
>>>>>> CX70 front der and a White Industries DOS ENO 16/19 freewheel.  I 
>>>>>> installed
>>>>>> a Suntour Sprint down tube shifter on the shifter boss, with my own 
>>>>>> custom
>>>>>> machined stop that causes it to sit proud of the down tube in the
>>>>>> small-ring position.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With the faceplater stem pretty much slammed, and the saddle at my
>>>>>> height, I'm happy at the silhouette of the bike.  I'm eager to get a 
>>>>>> chain
>>>>>> on it and start riding it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have a look:
>>>>>> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720319657823
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Bill Lindsay
>>>>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Handlebar suggestion for long legs?

[Patrick Moore]

on the web visit
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0a3eda78-8696-4dd2-836d-ab412029b7c9n%40googlegroups.com
>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0a3eda78-8696-4dd2-836d-ab412029b7c9n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>> .
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Quickbeam improvement ideas

[Patrick Moore]

My opinion, fwiw, this from someone who for decades spent $$$ trying to
make the imperfect perfect: if it's too big, sell it and get something that
fits. There are all sorts of more minor imperfections that, even if not so
central, nag at one during each ride, rather like a rubbing brake or an
underinflated tire. These are bad enough. But proper fit is so central to
the pleasure of cycling that me, I'd get something that fit better.

>From my experience of the wonderful, signature handling of Grant-designed
bikes, I'd guess that, if your QB feels squirrely, this is largely if not
entirely due to a bad size and resulting improper and compensating setup.

Warning, anecdote, lengthy, old: a long, long ago I had a very nice
upper-middle-class Falcon, my right size, but in obsessively chasing KOPS
with short Asian femurs and a penchant for full leg extension I ended up
with a Ritchey mtb seatpost, saddle slammed *all the way forward,* and bar
6" below saddle on 140 mm Cinelli stem (later dialed back to 135).

This was a bike with relatively long stays and very short front-center,
designed for a butt-back position; set up properly it probably would have
been delightful. But with the weird all-the-way-forward weight distribution
I recall skipping the rear tire when standing up to torque up hills, and
the really frightening handling on fast, downhill sweepers, especially with
gusty sidewinds. Grant fixed my setup problems after I sold the bike.

Your situation is the polar opposite but the same principles apply.

Good luck!

On Wed, Aug 21, 2024 at 12:43 PM Andrew Janjigian 
wrote:

> So as I mentioned, I am considering a Roaduno, but since I’d love not to
> spend the $$$ on a new frame, I’m considering just fixing some of the
> issues I am having with my Quickbeam instead. Right now it is set up with a
> short Dirt Drop and albatross bars.
>
> Aside from the gnarly aesthetics of the well-loved frame, my main issues
> with it are:
>
> 1. A slightly too-big frame. It’s a 56, and my PBH is 83cm. The standover
> is close, but I do just clear the top bar with my feet on the ground. Worse
> is that I think the top bar is a little long, so I’m constantly sliding
> forward in the seat to reach the bars (the seat, a B68, is as far forward
> on the post as possible).
>
> 2. Squirrely steering.
>
> What do people think about the idea of replacing the Albatross bars with
> Boscos and the Dirt Drop with a 110mm Faceplater, with the idea being that
> it would bring the bars both up and back to keep me in the seat, and the
> longer stem would provide more steering stability? I figure I can always
> trim the bars down if they come back too far.
>
> Thanks!
>
> ––
> *Andrew Janjigian*
> website: www.wordloaf.org
> newsletter: newsletter.wordloaf.org
> book: bread baker’s pocket companion
> <https://shop.andrewjanjigian.com/product/the-bread-baker-s-pocket-companion>
> twitter/instagram: *wordloaf*
> elsewhere: https://linktr.ee/wordloaf <https://linktr.ee/wordloaff>
> ajanjig...@wordloaf.org
> [he/him/his]
>
>
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Ro-Deux-No build notes New Bike Day

[Patrick Moore]

+ 1 for having a pro do it, and make sure it's a pro. I had the French
threads in a nice Pro 5 Vis crankset tapped for English pedals by a nearby
bike shop. The head mechanic was eager but inexperienced and got the right
threads cockeyed. I had a heckofatime getting compensation from the owner
(recall standing around in the store for about an hour as the owner did her
very best to ignore me, but I persisted).

On Wed, Aug 21, 2024 at 9:32 AM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Good initial instruction, good tools, and lots of practice.  That's my
> formula for developing that confidence and mechanics' instinct.  I think
> most procedures really sink in after you fail one or more times, but
> failing at this operation on a new frame would be a bummer.  If you are
> nervous, have a pro do it.  If you want the practice, find a pro that will
> oversee you doing it.
>
> BL in EC
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 21, 2024 at 8:12:56 AM UTC-7 Michael Connors wrote:
>
>> Hi Bill. I am nervous about running a tap in the RD hanger.  How do you
>> make sure that you are in the existing thread and not cutting a new one?
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Basket on front or in back?

[Patrick Moore]

BTW, that modular Topeak system looks very useful. I'd be very interested
were this not to be a "thieves be damned" bike. I'll probably use a large
milk crate or wire basket from an Office Depot modular storage system
lashed to cheap heavy duty generic rack with hose clamps.

Again, we'll see. Perhaps I'll have the list's first Clem fixed gear using
that S3X hub if I can rig up a floating chainring or do a Sheldon with the
rear dropouts.

Patrick "dreaming, not doing" in ABQ, NM.

On Tue, Aug 20, 2024 at 6:01 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Thanks Ezri and Chris. Doubtless 20 lb dog in front basket is not the best
> way to ride a Clem. I dislike extreme front wheel flop much more than toe
> overlap, particularly as I also dislike wide bars more than TO, and I'd not
> want to risk falling over with Perry in a front basket.
>
> Anticipating: Bill Lindsay will surely say that I've been blathering about
> an outside-lockup beater for years and that I've already gone through 2
> beater frames while I am no closer to building something (That Libertas and
> the monstrously heavy but the tall and almost square Technium mtb -- total
> outlay with some 26" cheap tires <$150). But I've also blathered for years
> about buying a Clem, and this may just be the right conjunction of stars
> for this to happen before the end of the year. We shall see.
>
> Back to dogs: long ago I recall seeing a rider about town on an old
> mountain bike who carried a wee Chihuahua in his backpack; the rider told
> me that the little dog was quite comfortable riding with her head sticking
> out of the main compartment
>

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Re: [RBW] ISO: 22.2 clamp-on brake cable hanger

[Patrick Moore]

Performance has the Tektro hanger for $13

On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 4:32 PM Jacob Yosowitz  wrote:

> Hello! I am trying to find a cable hanger that will clamp on to a 22.2
> nitto quill stem. I recently purchased a sam through the group (photos will
> come when the build is complete!) but it seems the steer tube may have been
> cut down at some point and won't fit a usual cable hanger in the headset.
> So clamp-on it must be. Something akin to the the elusive nitto x
> fairweather cable hanger. Thanks!
>
> Also in search of a nitto drop bar cockpit. I have losco bars and long
> quill nitto technomic  on it at the moment but not sure they'll stay. Will
> consider trades!
>
> Thanks!
> Jacob in midcoast maine
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Well, not *quite* the same ... bike and baguettes

[Patrick Moore]

Sorry, forgot that I adjusted the recipe for 5K+ feet.

On Tue, Aug 13, 2024 at 5:25 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> To further inflate and extend this thread, here is a french bread recipe
> from Julia Child. Very simple, but I can never get the crisp crust and soft
> but "pull-able" inside, tho' even my results taste good and cut well. But I
> don't make it much because of course it requires beaucoup de kneading.
>
> But with the cost of bread rising so much I might just start again.
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Well, not *quite* the same ... bike and baguettes

[Patrick Moore]

To further inflate and extend this thread, here is a french bread recipe
from Julia Child. Very simple, but I can never get the crisp crust and soft
but "pull-able" inside, tho' even my results taste good and cut well. But I
don't make it much because of course it requires beaucoup de kneading.

But with the cost of bread rising so much I might just start again.

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JULIA CHILD'S FRENCH BREAD RECIPE.docx
Description: MS-Word 2007 document

Re: [RBW] Re: tire experiment

[Patrick Moore]

The nominally 48 mm, actually 49+ mm (27 mm IW rims) Oracle Ridges on my
Matthews dirt road bike look svelte and slim compared to the 60s they
replaced and compared to the 72 mm WTB Rangers on the Monocog I used to
own. They almost look lost under the 80 mm Kelpie fenders (designed for 72
X 584 and 60 X 622 tires) In fact, ~50 mm is the narrowest I'll use for an
allrounder bike in our sandy soil conditions.

On Mon, Aug 12, 2024 at 6:08 AM Doug H.  wrote:

> Indeed 43 mm are generally not slender but I had a set of 42s on my Clem
> for awhile and they look slender on it. I found them good on pavement and
> good enough on gravel. Let us know how they work for you Richard!
> Doug
>
> On Monday, August 12, 2024 at 7:06:07 AM UTC-4 Will Boericke wrote:
>
>> Only in the Riv group are we calling a 43mm tire "slender".  :)
>>
>> Will
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Well, not *quite* the same ... bike and baguettes

[Patrick Moore]

Hah! I was born in 1955. The grandson is 6-8 years older than I now.

On Sun, Aug 11, 2024 at 5:02 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> On the way home from church today I stopped at Albertson's to stuff 2
> baguettes plus tuna, rum, wine, coke (the drink, Mexican, sugar) and
> potatoes into my Arkel panniers. The baguettes reminded me of the iconic
> Nat Geog photo by Elliot Erwitt, *Boy, Bicycle, and Baguette,* from (I
> think) 1955.
>
> No route nationale, no grandson, but the Albertson's baguettes are alright
> for cheap US imitations and I rode home on our beautiful acequia ditchbank
> roads.
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
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Re: [RBW] Cameras On Bikes

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks for that photo selection. 20 and 30 years ago Ansel Adams' photos
were very popular here in the SW and I recall the surprisingly clear
quality of the details in his large format B&W photos -- at least, I think
he use a large format camera. The difference with even professional 35 mm
shots was evident even to me.

On Fri, Aug 9, 2024 at 9:22 PM Drew Saunders 
wrote:

> The QB has what I like to call “the world’s most inconvenient 4 speed.”
> Stock 32-40 chainrings, 17-19 Dos Eno freewheel on the flip side of the
> flip/flop hub and a 22t regular freewheel on the flop side. I can use the
> 17 and 19 with the 40, and the 19 and 22 with the 32, but haven’t changed
> out of the 40x17 in a long time. I rode fixed from about 1998-2004, but
> severely injured my right knee when it bent back a bit while on the fixie,
> so I can’t ride fixed any more. The knee injury forced me to lose 80+ lbs,
> so it wasn’t all bad. The QB was a present to myself for the weight loss.
>
> That’s a Carradice lowsaddle longflap that I bought from Riv a very long
> time ago. I carry my lock, a Sackville sack for the medium Wald, a basket
> net, and an insulated bag just in case I need to keep groceries cold in it.
>
> Why shoot large format? Mostly, because I still can. Realistically, a
> negative that’s over 13x the area of 35mm gives you not only more detail,
> but smoother transitions through the different colors or shades of grey. I
> only shoot black and white now, but have shot positive film in the past,
> and a large format slide is really impressive. With most LF cameras, you
> have front and rear standards with all the perspective control movements of
> rise/fall and lateral shift, plus tilt and swing. Also, you have no choice
> but to slow down and really think about your photograph. I shot 5 images in
> about an hour and a half this morning, and that’s relatively fast!
>
> I’ll develop the negatives tomorrow, but here’s an album of photos, mostly
> large format, taken at that Arizona Garden on the Stanford campus.
> https://flic.kr/s/aHsiVZiPU4
> I’ll add these to that album once they’re scanned.
>
> On Friday, August 9, 2024 at 5:48:12 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I know nothing about cameras but I know and wholeheartedly approve of the
>> bike and its setup -- drop bar well placed, eminently practical build with
>> the Carradice, flapped SKS', and small basket plus the fun of a fixed gear
>> (or is the rear cog a fw cog?). About a 65" gear? My remaining (out of 5
>> total) Riv is a custom fixed gear favorite, and 2 of the others were also
>> converted to fixed drivetrains and used for commuting with Carradice
>> (Nelson LF or Camper LF) or Cartwright (Adam) saddlebags. My current Riv
>> fixed has a Small Sackville.
>>
>> Back to the camera: what is the benefit or purpose of the large format?
>> My brother is an expert and would know, and my (23-year-old) daughter plans
>> to learn to use manually-adjusted film camera someone kindly gave her. Me,
>> if I get an occasional decent photo with my old iPhone it's purely by luck.
>>
>> On Fri, Aug 9, 2024 at 4:11 PM Drew Saunders  wrote:
>>
>>> OK, I know the theme is carrying cameras, mostly film cameras, on rides,
>>> but here's how I bike with a rather large camera. I only take this setup up
>>> to 2-3 miles, so it's clearly riding to photograph, not carrying a camera
>>> just in case I want to photograph.
>>> [image: IMG_7068.jpeg][image: IMG_7069.jpeg][image: IMG_7071.jpeg][image:
>>> IMG_7072.jpeg]
>>>
>>> So, what's in that rather large backpack?
>>> [image: IMG_7073.jpeg][image: IMG_7075.jpeg]
>>>
>>> That's an Ebony 45SU 4x5" large format film camera. Like the Quickbeam,
>>> it's from 2008, but since a lot of people assume that a wood and leather
>>> camera must be ancient, I like to tell them "it's an oh-eight" and let them
>>> guess the century. Hint: The metal bits are titanium, so it's not that old!
>>>
>>> I have the Photobackpacker (a.k.a. RPT, and the guy fully retired
>>> recently, so, like the Ebony, it can't be bought new any more) modified
>>> Kelty backpack and Photobackpacker system to carry the camera and lenses. I
>>> sometimes carry up to 6 lenses, but today went on an "all wide" excursion,
>>> carrying my 65mm, 80mm, 125mm and 135mm lenses, but didn't end up using the
>>> 135. For those of you who are wondering "what's the 'crop factor'?" well,
>>> it's complicated to compare a 2:3 ratio (24x36mm) to a 4:5 ratio
>>> (96x120mm), but 

[RBW] Is anyone interested in trading regular casing Rene Herse Oracle Ridges for 48 mm Soma Supple Vitesse SL (the extralight 360 gram model)?

[Patrick Moore]

I like the Oracle Ridges so much as a Goldilocks on-and-off road tire that
I'm no longer using the Soma Supple Vitesse SLs -- these are the 48 mm 360
digital-gram model. So I am interested in trading my small stash of the
Somas for Oracle Ridges; regular casing, please. I'll be curious to hear of
other tires that perform like the Oracle Ridges; Gravel Kings are talked
about: is there a model similar in type, size (49 mm on 27 mm IW rims) and
performance -- roll and corner very well on pavement, don't bog or plough
in sand?*

Interested parties inquire within for particulars.

Thanks.

* The Somas roll and corner superbly on pavement but they plough and wander
in sand; this at 50 mm actual and 20 psi on my 27 mm IW rims. The ORs roll
well -- not superbly -- and corner superbly on pavement and float beetter
and wander far less on sand.

-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
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*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] Northern Hemisphere Summer 2024 Photos

[Patrick Moore]

Chris: Yes, I privately emailed you in first response to your request for
NM photos. No matter, since I sent a later message publicly.

Will have to look for *The Emancipation of the Mind: Radical Philosophy,
the War Over Slavery, and the Refounding of America.*

I Googled reviews of the same and read the ones in the NYT and Goodreads.
In the first I immediately saw this:



*What was the Civil War about? In a word, slavery.What actually caused the
war, however, is a vastly more difficult idea. Try this explanation on for
size: The driving force in American politics in the decades after the
American Revolution was the rise of an arrogant, ruthless, parasitic
oligarchy in the South, built on a foundation of Christian religion and a
vision of permanent, God-ordained economic inequality.*

True and false: All is true except "built on a foundation of Christian
religion." It was not built on Christianity. Southern slave owners
distorted Christianity -- that means, heresy -- to justify their belief
that blacks were less than fully human. Truly vicious slavery, as in Uncle
Tom's cabin, came only with pseudo-Darwinist ideology; it did not come from
St. Paul. The reviewer doesn't know his history.

While modern philosophers undoubtedly provided doctrinal justification for
the flight against slavery, evangelical Christianity and Quakerism and
British Methodism were at least as active. Harriet Beecher Stowe was a
Calvinist, not a modern German philosopher. And secular abolitionists
usually absorbed parts of Christian morality or at least moralism while
rejecting the supporting doctrines.

So framing the question in terms of revolutionary thinkers versus
counterrevolutionary Christians is at very best a very small part of the
truth and that small part very distorted; as so many authors, Stewart sees
a bit of the truth and jumps on as the whole solution -- the everlasting
error of philosophers.

One interesting thing (if one can use such an anodyne word of something as
evil as the Holocaust) about 19th and 20th century white Southern American
racism is its paranoid and malicious character, not shared by Spanish,
Portuguese, French, or even British racists; even the apartheidist Boers
didn't go so far. It was matched in malice perhaps only by the triumphalist
Wilhemine German colonizers, certainly themselves social Darwinists. I'm
just old enough to have seen the tail end of Jim Crow in Georgia in the
1960s, just before Maynard Jackson and recall this paranoid quality. But
none of this has anything to do with Christianity. St. Paul may have
accepted de facto first-century Roman slavery and counseled slaves to bear
their lot (but slavery was everywhere in the Biblical Levant, even among
the Jews) but he was in no doubt about their full humanity.

Patrick Moore, Ph.D. in Philosophy, Universite' Laval, mille neuf cent
quatre vingt neuf.




On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 6:42 PM Chris Halasz  wrote:

> Patrick
>
> The photos bring memories of New Mexico: We were very close to moving to
> ABQ in 2016 or so, and spent a few windless days riding our Bromptons all
> about town. The company ended up transferring me elsewhere!
>
> The Super C trunk sack looks great on the Matthews. Going to look into one
> of those for a friend perplexed over trunks and panniers. The wider tires
> totally throw off perception of wheel size.
>
> Going to check to see if the local library has "Great River". Just
> finished Matthew Stewart's fascinating "The Emancipation of the Mind:
> Radical Philosophy, the War Over Slavery, and the Refounding of America".
> Check your local library.
>
> (Not sure if I'm the one you referenced offline - never reached my in(or
> spam)box.)
>
> - Chris
>
> On Thursday, August 8, 2024 at 5:34:30 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Ill written. That should have been: "... from before the Indians to the
>> Pueblos to the Hispanics fleeing the tyranny of the Mexican colonial
>> government to the missions ..."
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 6:27 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> ... 1000+ pages of New Mexico history with the Rio Grande as instrument,
>>> from before the Indians* thru the conquista, the friars, the revolt, the
>>> reconquista, the Apaches, the Yanks, and modern America. Wonderful book.
>>> Amazon has it.
>>>
>>
>>> *My brother, close friends with Hopi and Navajo, says that they prefer
>>> "Indian."
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 6:19 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>> ... Lastly, also from late May, El Rio Grande in flood -- nice change
>>> from 2023 when it almost dried up completely. This shows just the channel
>>> West of the towhead; the Eastern chan

Re: [RBW] Northern Hemisphere Summer 2024 Photos

[Patrick Moore]

Ill written. That should have been: "... from before the Indians to the
Pueblos to the Hispanics fleeing the tyranny of the Mexican colonial
government to the missions ..."


On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 6:27 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ... 1000+ pages of New Mexico history with the Rio Grande as instrument,
> from before the Indians* thru the conquista, the friars, the revolt, the
> reconquista, the Apaches, the Yanks, and modern America. Wonderful book.
> Amazon has it.
>
> *My brother, close friends with Hopi and Navajo, says that they prefer
> "Indian."
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 6:19 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
> ... Lastly, also from late May, El Rio Grande in flood -- nice change
> from 2023 when it almost dried up completely. This shows just the channel
> West of the towhead; the Eastern channel is as wide.
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
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Re: [RBW] Northern Hemisphere Summer 2024 Photos

[Patrick Moore]

Aside, but worth noting: Paul Horgan's classic "Great River," 1000+ pages
of New Mexico history with the Rio Grande as instrument, from before the
Indians* thru the conquista, the friars, the revolt, the reconquista, the
Apaches, the Yanks, and modern America. Wonderful book. Amazon has it.

*My brother, close friends with Hopi and Navajo, says that they prefer
"Indian."


On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 6:19 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
... Lastly, also from late May, El Rio Grande in flood -- nice change from
2023 when it almost dried up completely. This shows just the channel West
of the towhead; the Eastern channel is as wide.

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Re: [RBW] A Different Kind of RR

[Patrick Moore]

Sorry, Central Park, not Rock Creek Park. Still, 1989.

On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 5:56 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I have to agree with George, that one might want to be careful when using
> this term. This is how it came to national awareness:
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_jogger_case
>
> Tragic for all. I was very aware of the incident, having left WDC just ~4
> months earlier.
>
>
>

-- 

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Re: [RBW] A Different Kind of RR

[Patrick Moore]

I have to agree with George, that one might want to be careful when using
this term. This is how it came to national awareness:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_jogger_case

Tragic for all. I was very aware of the incident, having left WDC just ~4
months earlier.

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Re: [RBW] ISO Way Setback 26.6mm Seatpost for Betty Foy

[Patrick Moore]

+1 for the advice to move your saddle back sufficiently in order to take
weight off your shoulders, arms, and hands. It might seem counter-intuitive
-- one might think that shoving up close to the bar might help your arms,
etc., but (as always) Peter J White's bike setup instructions explain why
sufficient saddle setback is essential.

Basically, a sufficient bend at your hips lets your core muscles hold up
your torso. Too shallow an angle and your torso flops forward. You'll
notice that road braked roadsters and oma/opa fietses have very, very
shallow stas: this gives you that bend while the very short tts and
reach-back bars with little or no extension let you sit upright. No good
for putting out power but good for very low cadence torque.

Long ago Grant suggested a 72.5* sta on a custom; for some strong but
insufficiently examined reason I clung to 73* parallel and thereafter used
a rubber mallet to get my first edition Flites as far back on the 7410 DA
posts (large setback) as possible. I've since moved them forward by ~1 cm,
but I also prefer the ~72* sta on my first Matthews. (Aside: 73* parallel:
in the event, Grant did reduce the hat by 1/2 a degree to compensate for
the quicker handling of the 2" shorter and much lighter 559 road wheels.
This was very successful; so would have been the 72.5* sta. Listen to
Grant; except about tt length and pedaling shoes. Over and out.)

On Thu, Aug 8, 2024 at 11:58 AM Caroline Golum 
wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> Recently made some modifications to the cockpit of my Betty Foy which took
> care of a LOT of shoulder problems (some of you may recall my seized stem
> drama from last year).
>
> With the shorter/higher stem, I'm looking for a way to bring my saddle
> further back and give myself a little more room while pedaling/turning. In
> the past I've just set my saddle as far back as it'll go on the rails, but
> I'm now dealing with a busted saddle rail on my Brooks B17 as a result.
>
> The techs at Brooks recommended I look into a saddle with more of a
> setback, and I've been trawling eBay looking for my Goldilocks seatpost in
> a 26.6mm size. Something like this:
>
> [image: 1982 SR MTE-100 26.6mm Fluted MTB Klunker Seatpost - Picture 1 of
> 14]
>
> If anyone has any leads or a recommendation for where to look or purchase
> pop off in the replies!
>
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> .
>


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Patrick Moore
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*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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[RBW] Interesting (but weirdly silent) video about Carradice bags

[Patrick Moore]

https://youtu.be/Y6AhDbXyaEc

Captions, no sound, but some of the old products are interesting.

-- 

Patrick Moore
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[RBW] Bump. 2X lightly used and 1X NIP 450 digital gram 622 X 60 mm Schwalbe Big Ones

[Patrick Moore]

Also interested in trades for: Rat Trap Passes, Oracle Ridges, Naches
Passes, Elk Passes. The ultralight Big Ones are fully the equal in quality
and rolling feel of these RH tires and set up tubeless easier, wear longer,
and don't weep sealant. And, they're lighter than the extralight and
narrower RH Antelope Hill.



Now surplus to requirements. Get these ineffably smooth and fast*-rolling
tires at less than Big Apple prices. The used ones are almost new.

Digital scale said 450 +/1 5 grams for each.

These set up tubeless very well on Blunt SS rims, hold air before sealant,
work very well with OS Endurance, and wear very well indeed for such light
tires.

* Exhaustive seat of pants testing shows that these seem to roll as fast as
the wonderful Elk pass tires. They do wallow slightly in turns, but you can
overcome this by countersteering.

NIP: $50 + shipping
Used,* Each: *$30 + shipping.

*Note: *The used ones will have tiny remnants of goatheads embedded in
them; I cannot see any thorns but best to set these up tubeless or use
sealant in your tubes.

The three can be shipped in a large priority mail box for a slightly
discounted total shipped of *$130 + paypal fee.*

-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
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*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

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---

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*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] Horses and Donkeys

[Patrick Moore]

Donkeys. Tiny little things about as tall as Irish Wolfhounds were very,
very common on the subcontinent 50 and 60 years ago, the poor man's pickup
truck, and you'd see young Pakistanis in particular on stripped-down gofast
2-wheel carts -- small car wheels with very used tires to match on a 36" X
36" platform hitched to one of these miniatures darting through the chaotic
downtown mix of listing buses, decrepit lorries,
blue-smoke-buzzing-2-stroke auto rickshaws, and rich sahib sedans, wee
little legs going 600 rpm as the rider flicked his whip over them.

In India, age 9 or 10 a friend and I came across a laborer with his donkey
and my friend begged a ride. He got on and the donkey immediately bucked
him over its head.

A Clem is at least 25% bigger than these little donkeys.

On Mon, Aug 5, 2024 at 1:21 PM st nick  wrote:

>
> Fun thread.
>
> I met a neat old fellow on a trip to Colorado several years back who
> introduced me and my grandsons to his mild mannered donkey.
>
> He named him Donkey-Oatey which I thought was a hoot.
>
> He also had several horses.
> He let my daughter ride one of the horses.
>
> He was such a nice friendly old fellow.
>
> Most of my bikes are donkeys or burros.
>
> I have one 22 or 23 pounder that might be more of a horse.
>
> Paul in Dallas
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Goals for 2024 (will they be S.M.A.R.T. ?)

[Patrick Moore]

Bill: I've been wrestling in prayer with one of my dimmer senior
engineering clients, and with that as back screen I have to say: thank you
for the clarity of your descriptions, the quality of your photographs, and
the thoroughness of your experiments. Also, get a SA AM hub. And you can't
have that Libertas.



On Sat, Aug 3, 2024 at 2:37 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Eighth summit on my eighth bike in the eighth month today.  This time it
> was on my Crust Single Speed Lightning Bolt, set up with a Gates Belt drive
> and a 3-speed hub.
>
> The album is updated:
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720313832831/
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Saturday, July 20, 2024 at 12:42:51 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> Because I've gotten in the habit, I have kept my streak going of riding
>> to the top of Mount Diablo every month in 2024.  My seventh month in a row
>> was on my seventh different bike.  It was HOT, but nowhere near as bad as
>> it could have been.  The max I saw on my Wahoo was 37C.
>>
>> I can see a path to going 12 for 12, including the forthcoming RoadUno
>> being one of the bikes this Fall.  I stopped by Riv HQ to straddle the 54.5
>> and the 58 RoadUno, just to make sure I want to go HUGE.  The standover on
>> the 58 is "right there" but riding it is so perfecto, that I've just got to
>> go big.
>>
>> The seven for seven album is updated:
>>
>> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720313832831/
>>
>> BL in EC
>>
>> On Sunday, May 19, 2024 at 4:45:47 PM UTC-7 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>>> One of my 2024 goals is knocked down.  I stated the goal:
>>>
>>> Summit Mount Diablo 5 times on 5 different bikes
>>>
>>> I did my fifth summit of Diablo today on my fifth different bike.  Pics
>>> prove it:
>>>
>>> https://flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/albums/72177720313832831/
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:48:14 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>>> Often we do a goals thread, and there seems to me that there's a schism
>>>> on how to approach goals.  Some folks have very specific goals: i.e.
>>>> "average 10 miles a day over the year".  Others enjoy eschewing the
>>>> specificity: i.e. "have more fun on the bike".
>>>>
>>>> I'm a devotee of S.M.A.R.T. goals, which are (S)simple, (M)easurable,
>>>> (A)chievable, (R)relevant, (T)imply.  The notion of the S.M.A.R.T. goal has
>>>> improved my life in several ways and maybe in a way has saved my life. I'm
>>>> a compulsive person and I'm a numbers guy. I'm going to be compulsive 
>>>> about *something
>>>> , *so if that something can be achievable and healthy, then that's a
>>>> good thing.  I've gotten into the habit of setting up tons of tiny
>>>> S.M.A.R.T. goals, and it sets me up to have a regular pattern of taking
>>>> W's.
>>>>
>>>> My big picture goals for 2024 include:
>>>>
>>>> 10,000km ridden
>>>> Summit Mount Diablo 5 times on 5 different bikes
>>>> Put myself in the position to attempt my first 400k brevet
>>>> Complete the Marin Mountains 200k brevet
>>>> Complete 25% of every city in Contra Costa County on Wandrer
>>>> Complete 25% of Marin County on Wandrer
>>>> Ride 55 miles on my 55th birthday and kick off riding my age on my
>>>> birthday as a regular event
>>>>
>>>> Bill Lindsay
>>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>>
>>> --
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[RBW] Re: [BOB] FS, cheap: Well used Ortlieb Backroller panniers.

[Patrick Moore]

In fairness to Harry, yes, there are other and possibly cheaper ways of
shipping the panniers, I'll use Priority for $85 shipped or the buyer's
preferred method for 25 minus actual shipping cost, as long as I don't have
to make a trip to UPS or FedEx (I can bicycle to the PO, other shippers are
hard to reach).

Yes, Harry, the inside of the panniers are clean.

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[RBW] Re: [BOB] FS, cheap: Well used Ortlieb Backroller panniers.

[Patrick Moore]

Huh?

Reply to your private message: again, Huh?

Patrick "over and out" Moore, puzzled indeed in ABQ, NM.

On Fri, Aug 2, 2024 at 5:48 PM Harry Travis  wrote:

> Gratuitous, as I am well stocked:
>
> Per recent thread: look at alternatives that will be shown you as options
> in pirateship or others reselling services only otherwise available to
> commercial shippers
>
> And favor yourself by varying box size to see how much smaller can matter.
>
>
>
> --
> Harry P Travis
> 17.5.1
>
> On Aug 2, 2024, at 4:39 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> 
> Ortlieb Backrollers, red. Well used but still very usable -- I recently
> carried 30+ lb home from Sprout's in them, and they've handled 50 lb
> between the 2 of them.
>
> *$85 shipped CONUS. *(That's with a Large Priority box; if I can ship
> cheaper I will happily charge the lower shipping cost.)
>
> See the photos of the backs. #1: these have been adjusted to fit my
> customized Tubus Fly, with the trailing edge clips mounted ~1" lower than
> the forward ones to kick the panniers up at the back for more foot
> clearance at the front, but of course you can un-adjust them. #2: these
> have been adjusted several times so that there are several little unused
> screw holes in the backs of each. $3: They do not have the inner pockets or
> straps but you can have those I just removed from a pair of Bike Packers,
> but you will have to install them yourself. #4: they have all the other
> hardware, tho' I may remove one of the bottom rack strut clips from each if
> I get around to it -- that way they'll be as they came stock.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>
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> 
> 
>
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Re: [RBW] FREE: KOOKABURRA Wool Washing Soap 16oz.

[Patrick Moore]

FWIW, I just stumbled across this article about washing wool; it seems
reasonably thoughtful:

https://www.knittersreview.com/how-to-clean-handknits/

That notwithstanding, again, for years without problems I've used my
machine's Delicate cycle, including the full spin part, far longer than the
10 seconds the above article warns is the limit for good woolens.

The article mentions earlier formulations of Woolite which might not have
been as easy on wool as current ones.



On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 3:14 PM RichS  wrote:

> Patrick, like you, I've used Kookaburra for years. The price plus shipping
> has had me thinking of alternatives as well; except my wife has become fond
> of using Kookaburra for certain items. Do you hand wash or use a machine
> for your merino? I've done it both ways with no apparent damage to the
> fabric when washed on the gentle cycle. I'll give detergent a go and I'm
> sure it will be fine. Thank you Patrick.
>
> Best,
> Rich in ATL
>

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Re: [RBW] FREE: KOOKABURRA Wool Washing Soap 16oz.

[Patrick Moore]

I wash woolens in my machine on the "Delicates" setting. The machine also
has a "Hand Washables" setting but the "Delicates" is a tiny bit more
energetic and I've had no problems even with structured wool dress pants
converted to knickers.

Once the Kookabura runs out -- it should last me through the year -- I'll
look for a "delicate" detergent made for wool knits. Apparently baby
shampoo is also fine, though I expect it doesn't add anything to a mild
detergent except cost.

On Thu, Aug 1, 2024 at 3:14 PM RichS  wrote:

> Patrick, like you, I've used Kookaburra for years. The price plus shipping
> has had me thinking of alternatives as well; except my wife has become fond
> of using Kookaburra for certain items. Do you hand wash or use a machine
> for your merino? I've done it both ways with no apparent damage to the
> fabric when washed on the gentle cycle. I'll give detergent a go and I'm
> sure it will be fine. Thank you Patrick.
>
> Best,
> Rich in ATL
>
> On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 3:37:52 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Kim: I'm curious why you don't like Kookabura. I've been using it for
>> years and apart from the cost* I've had no problems, even when washing
>> tailored cycling clothing like dress pants altered into cycling knickers.
>>
>> I've been buying 1 gal sizes from Rick Reisemberg of wool and hemp
>> knickers fame and erstwhile iBob membership and am down to about 1/3 of my
>> umpteenth gallon from him, but it looks as if the price has skyrocketed
>> since I bought my last gallon a few years ago.
>>
>> Because of the cost, I asked on the boblist about cheaper alternatives
>> and per Harth Huffman of Wabi Woolens (it's largely for his merino jerseys
>> and other merino pullovers that I'd been using Kookabura) any mild
>> detergent, dish or laundry, will work.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 27, 2024 at 8:26 AM Kim H.  wrote:
>>
>>> I have a 16 ounce bottle of KOOKABURRA WOOL WASHING SOAP.
>>> I have only used one or two cap fulls. I decided I did not care for it.
>>>
>>> Rivendell Bicycle Works sells it for $14.00.
>>> https://www.rivbike.com/products/kookaburra-woolwash-
>>> 16oz?_pos=1&_psq=kookaburra&_ss=e&_v=1.0
>>>
>>> It is free. You pay the postage.
>>> I will place the bottle in two zip-lock plastic bag before shipping into
>>> a box.
>>>
>>> Paypal payment, please.
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel.
>>>
>>> --
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>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
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[RBW] ISO inexpensive 559 X ~37 mm tire

[Patrick Moore]

I'd like a second set of tires for my Joe Starck Riv custom fixie fatter
than the 27 mm actual (19 mm OW rims) Elk passes for occasional fixed
riding on bosque paths, now firmed up by our (short and occasional) summer
monsoon rains.

I've got an extra pair of Naches Pass ELs and one of these will be fine for
the front, but the rear stays limit a tire to 38 mm and that's very tight.

So I really need just 1 tire for the rear, but I'll consider an inexpensive
pair.

Would rather have something slick or with minimal tread, relatively
(emphasis) supple, nothing with a puncture barrier. Perhaps a 1.75 Pasela?
I've never used one of these.

Again, tight specs: between 36 mm minimum and 38 mm maximum  on skinny 19
mm outside width rims.

Thanks.

And those 450 gram 622X60 Big Ones are still for sale.

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[RBW] Re: [BOB] ISO/WTB/WTT/Looking for recommendations for: largish cycling repair kit bag or sack to carry inside saddlebag.

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, Jay. The 2 travel kits (we used to call the toilet kits) would work
fine, but $35 and $40 for a utility pouch that will be hidden in a
saddlebag and carry grubby tools is rather high.

After reading this, I realized I had the ideal pouch already, a zippered
Jansport nylon canvas pouch that I've owned for probably 30 years; it's
currently holding my miscellaneous lighting kit: battery headlights and
tail lights, reflective gear, chargers. So I went to Jansport and sure
enough, the have the zippered "Perfect Pouch, 9" X 4" X 3" for $15, so that
I ordered 2 of them with tax and $5 (!!) shipping for $38. If they're as
well made as the old one they're more than good enough.

To quote Inspector Clouseau, "Ze problem is solv-ed."





On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 3:03 PM Jay Lonner  wrote:

> There was recent discussion of Alchemy Goods as a place to recycle old
> inner tubes. Why not have a look at the upcycled results?
>
> [image: Ag_logo_with_website_250_x_250.png]
>
> All Products <https://www.alchemygoods.com/collections/all-products>
> alchemygoods.com <https://www.alchemygoods.com/collections/all-products>
> <https://www.alchemygoods.com/collections/all-products>
>
> I have their Ballard belt, two different sizes of Dopp kits, and an
> assortment of zippered pouches. The aesthetic works for me, and it’s all
> proven to be very durable.
>
> Jay Lonner
> Bellingham, WA
>
> Sent from my Atari 400
>
> On Jul 31, 2024, at 1:39 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> 
> I'm looking for a well made zippered or velcro'd pouch about 7/8" X 4" X
> 2/3" -- see photos -- to replace the suitably-sized but very cheap vinyl
> pouch that came, IIRC, with some Amazon purchase.
>
> Woven nylon, leather, cotton canvas, even sturdier vinyl all acceptable.
>
> Can anyone recommend a make/model and source?
>
> Does anyone have something like this to sell, trade, give to charity?
>
> Thanks.
>
> I use the wonderful Ruthworks Large saddle wedges that are just big enough
> for my bulky on-bike repair/convenience kits (4 oz bottles of OS + 2
> tubes + large old bandana as wipe-up rag + tightly folded musette + the
> usual tools) but I've taken to keeping the formerly winter-weather-only Riv
> Saddlesack Medium on the gofast year 'round as its much more convenient
> than the musette for extempore purchases -- carried home today 2 q ATF+4
> and 3.75 fl oz Good formerly known as Shoe Goo fro O'Reilly's.
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>
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> 
> 
> 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] FREE: KOOKABURRA Wool Washing Soap 16oz.

[Patrick Moore]

Kim: I'm curious why you don't like Kookabura. I've been using it for years
and apart from the cost* I've had no problems, even when washing tailored
cycling clothing like dress pants altered into cycling knickers.

I've been buying 1 gal sizes from Rick Reisemberg of wool and hemp knickers
fame and erstwhile iBob membership and am down to about 1/3 of my umpteenth
gallon from him, but it looks as if the price has skyrocketed since I
bought my last gallon a few years ago.

Because of the cost, I asked on the boblist about cheaper alternatives and
per Harth Huffman of Wabi Woolens (it's largely for his merino jerseys and
other merino pullovers that I'd been using Kookabura) any mild detergent,
dish or laundry, will work.



On Sat, Jul 27, 2024 at 8:26 AM Kim H.  wrote:

> I have a 16 ounce bottle of KOOKABURRA WOOL WASHING SOAP.
> I have only used one or two cap fulls. I decided I did not care for it.
>
> Rivendell Bicycle Works sells it for $14.00.
> https://www.rivbike.com/products/kookaburra-woolwash-
> 16oz?_pos=1&_psq=kookaburra&_ss=e&_v=1.0
>
> It is free. You pay the postage.
> I will place the bottle in two zip-lock plastic bag before shipping into a
> box.
>
> Paypal payment, please.
>
> Kim Hetzel.
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Let’s talk: 1 Up USA, Quickr Racks

[Patrick Moore]

George and Brian: No, it wasn't a Bones; I had one of those too. This was
tubular steel and hooked to the top, bottom, and each side of the trunk (or
hatch) with flat metal hooks and adjustable straps. I recall liking it
better than the Bones which wouldn't let you open the trunk; or I think
that the one I owned 20 years ago or whenever didn't let you do that; from
photos the current ones do seem to allow it.

Oh well, it's academic since I have an old hatchback from which I've
removed the back seats so that I can carry 1 bike disassembled even with
30+ inch tires, and 2 or 3 bikes if you remove the front wheels and lower
the saddles.

As the inevitable tangent, here's a photo I took 15 years or so ago of a
hatch rack someone made for his Fiat 500 (the big modern one, not the
petite original one).

Patrick "one more aside: Wabi Woolen ss full-zip mid-weight merino jersey
did fine just now at 98*F and sky-high 15% humidity" Moore; had to give a
plug for Wabi Woolen.

On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 11:23 AM George Schick  wrote:

> Patrick - I used to have a rack that worked pretty much exactly as you
> describe back in the mid-90's. Can't remember the manf. though.  A Saris
> maybe?  Don't think it was a Thule.  But I used it on an old Mitsubishi
> Galant and it worked fine. Can't see how it would've worked on an SUV,
> though.
>
> On Wednesday, July 31, 2024 at 10:51:35 AM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Speaking of old but well designed bike racks, I once bought one very
>> second hand that strapped to the trunk lid of a sedan -- to sides and
>> bottom lip of trunk lid -- and carried I think 2 bikes with front wheels
>> removed and fork dropouts clamped to a forward clamp. The rear wheels
>> strapped to cups at the other end of the device. The bikes rode
>> fore-and-aft with rear wheels over the end of the trunk but high enough to
>> be safe from being rear ended. You could still lift the trunk lid with the
>> rack attached (in fact, with the bike/s attached, tho' the weight made it
>> awkward).
>>
>> I daresay you could have strapped this to the rear hatch of a hatchback
>> or minivan (I don't do SUVs) to carry the bikes more vertically but I never
>> tried this.
>>
>> Does anyone know who made these?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 6:31 PM Chris Halasz  wrote:
>>
>>> Leah - thank you for starting this thread!
>>>
>>> We are in the market for a rack, and a car bigger than our Honda Fit to
>>> go with the rack, for transporting our bikes around!
>>>
>>> I'm surprised there's no discussion on Hollywood Racks
>>> <https://hollywoodracks.com>, favored over the 1Up by of many of our
>>> friends. I understand the Hollywood Racks fold and stow nicely, which is
>>> important to us. Our criteria: Fits a big Clem with mid-40mmish tires, and
>>> folds up nicely for garage storage
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Let’s talk: 1 Up USA, Quickr Racks

[Patrick Moore]

Speaking of old but well designed bike racks, I once bought one very second
hand that strapped to the trunk lid of a sedan -- to sides and bottom lip
of trunk lid -- and carried I think 2 bikes with front wheels removed and
fork dropouts clamped to a forward clamp. The rear wheels strapped to cups
at the other end of the device. The bikes rode fore-and-aft with rear
wheels over the end of the trunk but high enough to be safe from being rear
ended. You could still lift the trunk lid with the rack attached (in fact,
with the bike/s attached, tho' the weight made it awkward).

I daresay you could have strapped this to the rear hatch of a hatchback or
minivan (I don't do SUVs) to carry the bikes more vertically but I never
tried this.

Does anyone know who made these?



On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 6:31 PM Chris Halasz  wrote:

> Leah - thank you for starting this thread!
>
> We are in the market for a rack, and a car bigger than our Honda Fit to go
> with the rack, for transporting our bikes around!
>
> I'm surprised there's no discussion on Hollywood Racks
> , favored over the 1Up by of many of our
> friends. I understand the Hollywood Racks fold and stow nicely, which is
> important to us. Our criteria: Fits a big Clem with mid-40mmish tires, and
> folds up nicely for garage storage

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[RBW] Re: 2X lightly used and 1X NIP 450 digital gram 622 X 60 mm Schwalbe Big Ones

[Patrick Moore]

CONUS. Can ship elsewhere for cost of shipping and no $5 discount.

On Mon, Jul 29, 2024 at 3:58 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ... The three can be shipped in a large priority mail box for a slightly
> discounted total shipped of *$130 + paypal fee.*
>

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[RBW] FS: 2X lightly used and 1X NIP 450 digital gram 622 X 60 mm Schwalbe Big Ones

[Patrick Moore]

Now surplus to requirements. Get these ineffably smooth and fast*-rolling
tires at less than Big Apple prices. The used ones are almost new.

Digital scale said 450 +/1 5 grams for each.

These set up tubeless very well on Blunt SS rims, hold air before sealant,
work very well with OS Endurance, and wear very well indeed for such light
tires.

* Exhaustive seat of pants testing shows that these seem to roll as fast as
the wonderful Elk pass tires. They do wallow slightly in turns, but you can
overcome this by countersteering.

NIP: $50 + shipping
Used,* Each: *$30 + shipping.

*Note: *The used ones will have tiny remnants of goatheads embedded in
them; I cannot see any thorns but best to set these up tubeless or use
sealant in your tubes.

The three can be shipped in a large priority mail box for a slightly
discounted total shipped of *$130 + paypal fee.*

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Re: [RBW] Re: Old news: NYT review of Just Ride from 2012

[Patrick Moore]

I agree that a bike is not *merely* a toy. In fact, it is a toy for (to use
Bike Snob phraseology) precisely for roadie Freds, tho' I immediately claw
back any hint of deprecation for those who simply like to ride road bikes
fast. But "faster stronger lighter" is a toy mentality unless you are a
professional. OTOH, as Sheldon said long ago, there are no cyclists more
serious than commuters because they ride all the time in all conditions.

I think that what Grant meant is that a bicycle is not principally an
exercise machine or principally a machine for pursuing personal bests; it's
for having fun. And that I agree with 100%; when I commute or run errands
on the bike it is because it's fun; certainly a hellofalot more fun than
driving in traffic. And someone can have fun pursuing personal bests, tho'
that very quickly crosses over into a weird misplaced asceticism or
monasticism,  in my opinion -- there was a news article a few years ago
about the woman (not a racer, I think) who got so burned out by "training"
and "getting better" that she could no longer stomach cycling and gave it
up. That's both sad and very weird and it's the opposite of what Grant
wants for cycling.


On Sun, Jul 28, 2024 at 7:20 PM Pam Bikes  wrote:

> Thanks for posting.  I hadn't read the review before.  One disagreement I
> have is that a bike is not a toy.  It's much more than that.
> On Sunday, July 28, 2024 at 4:42:13 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I was searching my folders for old Riv geometry charts and found this,
>> and re-read it. Fun reading.
>>
>> Preaching to the choir, I know.
>>
>> Patrick Moore, who loves his team kit: Bianchi, Moteni, Legnano, BP, also
>> had Cycles Wolfe and Raleigh team jersey before I sold them.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell bicycles and speed

[Patrick Moore]

That's impressive, and if someone can average over 18 mph in windy
conditions for 62 1/2 miles that's proof enough that the bike is not
holding him back.

Is your same a later model? How does the latest model differ from the first
edition? Do riders of later Sams find the bike different from riders of
original Sams? I ask because my original did not shine for me.

Linking to another thread, about Sam and weight, I rode my Matthews #1
("road bike for dirt" -- position and components very like my road bikes
but 50s (Oracle Ridges) at 19 psi for combined pavement and sandy dirt
(firm thank God thanks to recent rain). I have to say that 31 1/2 lb does
not feel slow of cumbersome.

BTW: 28 psi for 48s at 125 lb? My OR regular casings feel harsh over
expansion cracks (8" to 12") at 20; 18 is smoother, works as well as any
other pressure in sand, and corners just fine on pavement. I aim for "a bit
under 20 psi." Me, 170-175.

On Sun, Jul 28, 2024 at 10:34 AM Ted Durant  wrote:

> FWIW, I just rode 100km (moderately hilly, headwind kicked up coming home)
> in 3h 27m on Great Lakes Sam. If I'd been on my Rivendell Road or my Heron
> Road, my subjective guess is that I'd have been 3-5 minutes faster, but
> maybe not. That headwind coming home really sapped me. On the Riv Road the
> bars are lower and farther away, so my position is a bit more efficient. If
> I wanted, I could drop the Sam bars down a bit. The stem on Great Lakes Sam
> is 1cm longer than the ones on my other 2 Sams, so it's closer to my road
> bike position. I'm not convinced it's better.
>
> In the recent Sam Hillborne thread I gave the weight of my latest Sam
> frame and fork, and the frame is among the heaviest I've weighed, but the
> fork is surprisingly lighter than some others. The Sam does not ride
> "heavy" in my experience. At 125 pounds and putting out 100-150 watts, I
> only feel swing in an especially noodly frame (Terraferma Corsa 650B, for
> example). But I do feel (and see) fork flex (or lack thereof) over bumps.
> We have a lot of roads where there's a notch in the pavement every 10
> meters or so ... ka-thump  ka-thump . ka-thump. I can't take more
> than a couple of minutes on those roads on 26mm tires at 70psi. On 32mm
> tires at 40psi, they're almost tolerable, but I still ride the edge of the
> road where the ka-thump is a bit less. On 48mm tires at 28psi, they are
> close to unnoticed, especially with the Sam's fork (as compared to the
> BreadWinner it replaced). Today's ride confirmed how I feel about the Sam -
> super comfortable and gives up next-to-nothing in speed.
>
> Ted Durant
> Milwaukee WI USA
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Paul Touring cantilever performance versus Paul Neo Retro

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks, all. The Tourings in back and the Neo Retros on front work --
alright. That is, with pad embedding and the RH hanger noted below they've
gone from "I guess they'll do" to "really, they're fine." They don't have
the authoritative "Stop Now!" feeling of a good forged single pivot with
salmons on a well-bedded rim, let alone the rather grabby power of a dual
pivot, but I've certainly used worse brakes.

I wonder -- expect? -- if the Dura Ace BL7402 levers are not best for these
brakes ...?

I did improve the front Neo Retro a bit by replacing the steel and short
housing hanger with a deeper-drop and very stiff aluminum RH hanger and the
braking is slightly but noticeably more "powerful." On this evidence I
suppose it might be worth installing compressionless housing but I don't
want to bother. I might try lengthening the cable and shortening the
straddle cable accordingly, but there's less than 1" above the fender (42s
under 50 mm fenders) to play with; does anyone advise that a ~ 1/2" longer
cable and correspondingly shorter and shallower-angled straddle would make
a difference?

In the rear the mono-strut fender attachment to the seatstay bridge
prevents lowering the straddle any further.

Oh well, f and r work as well as any cantilevers with drop bar levers that
I've used over the decades --- *except!!!* the ineffably strong and
perfectly modulating IRD Cafam cantilevers installed by
competent-for-a-change Rivendell staff on the 2010 Sam Hill I bought. I
might have bought those for the Matthews except (1) I need low-profiles in
the rear and (2) the reputation for precise tolerances -- avoiding slop --
in the Pauls makes them the safe choice for the otherwise horrible judder
and squeal resulting from the excessively long steerer and head on this 58
cm (c-c but sloping tt and highly extended head and steerer) built for 26"
wheels, fully 2 1/2" smaller than similar 700C wheels. (And can't use
crown-mount housing stop on this fork.)

On Wed, Jul 24, 2024 at 11:00 AM J J  wrote:

> I've used both Touring and Neo-Retro. I've never felt any discernible
> difference in slowing and stopping capacity between them.
>
> As some here have suggested — and my experiences bear this out —  braking
> acumen is always predicated on how the Paul brakes are set up. There are
> too many factors and variables at play to say that one model is inherently
> better than the other because performance is predicated on the interplay
> between these variables — levers, cables, housing, pads, straddle wires and
> yokes, angles, mechanical advantage, springs, rim surfaces, riding
> conditions, etc. etc. An "all other things being equal" comparison scenario
> is thus practically impossible. (You can have poorly set up "strong" brakes
> that do not perform well and "weak" brakes that perform great because they
> are set up nicely. This goes for any type of brakes, not just cantilevers,
> which I believe don't deserve their reputation for being particularly
> persnickety to set up relative to other types of brakes.)
>
> I prefer the Neo-Retros and have them front and rear on a couple of bikes
> because I think they look a lot better than the Touring, which are ungainly
> to my eyes. The rear Neo-Retros have not interfered with any of my bags,
> racks, or heels.
>
> On Wednesday, July 24, 2024 at 10:59:06 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> I have bikes with both and feel like the touring canti is more powerful
>> than the neo-retro but feel like that shouldn't be the case. I believe that
>> I read somewhere that the physics involved in the neo-retro should provide
>> more leverage and power but that simply hasn't been my experience. Of
>> course, this could just be my setup including cable length and bend angle,
>> brake pads, wheels, etc. That said, if I were ordering a set, I'd go
>> touring canti every time given my experience and the lower profile of the
>> touring. Most of my bikes have racks, bags, fenders, and the neo-retro gets
>> in the way sometimes. I will say that it's hard to compare a single front
>> brake to a single rear brake as the front usually feels stronger due to the
>> forward weight shift that occurs when slowing a bicycle.
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 24, 2024 at 9:31:30 AM UTC-4 rcook...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick,
>>>
>>> I have one bike with the NR-front/Touring-rear combination (which I
>>> chose) and one with Touring front and rear (bike came that way). Both brake
>>> well with decent modulation. Too many variables involved to say which is
>>> better, though I wouldn't be surprised if the NR have slightly better
>>> modula

Re: [RBW] Rivendell Roadbike Curious

[Patrick Moore]

And of course, *Roadeo.*

On Sat, Jul 27, 2024 at 3:57 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> That's nice. It would be interesting to learn about the tube lengths and
> the angles and the tubing specs to see how they compare with current and
> older Rivendell purely road models -- Roadini, Road Standard, Longlow,
> Rambouillet.
>

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Re: [RBW] Front-loader cargo bike? Thoughts?

[Patrick Moore]

I just looked over their site; very interesting, and much more affordable
than I'd anticipated, even the titanium option --tho' I'm not sure that
saving a couple of lbs with titanium makes any sense for a cargo bike.

Does yours really handle like a regular bike?


On Fri, Jul 26, 2024 at 11:25 AM Brian Forsee  wrote:

> I picked up an Omnium Cargo (the fullsize/largest one) a couple of years
> ago and couldn't be happier with it. It's probably a bit overkill for a
> small child, but it can handle my 80lb german shepard with ease. Also makes
> grocery shopping extremely easy. Just drop the bags on the platform,
> cargo-net down, and go. No tetris-ing.
>
> Their mid-size, what they call the mini-max, also looks intriguing.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell bicycles and speed

[Patrick Moore]

Yes, it's odd how certain bikes "make" you ride harder. I find it easier to
ride "relaxed" when I'm riding on dirt. But years of practice now let me
ride my road bikes in a much more relaxed way than 15 years ago; on my last
2 road rides I detoured into neighborhood meanders, something I enjoyed
greatly as a boy -- just exploring new neighborhoods. And, funny, my "for
what it's worth" personal best was done 30 years ago when started a
Saturday morning ride by telling myself I was going to ride slowly.

On Thu, Jul 25, 2024 at 9:49 PM Hoch in ut  wrote:

> I love jumping on the Appaloosa after riding my carbon road bike. The CF
> road bike is fast. But it’s go go go as soon as I take off.
> The Riv, I “meander” and enjoy the scenery and I’m more apt to stop at a
> bakery or for photos. Very enjoyable ride and change of pace (literally).
> When I am in ride mode, I do find I am only 10-20% slower.
> I’m good with that.
>
> On Thursday, July 25, 2024 at 12:42:52 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> https://bikesnobnyc.com/2024/07/25/smoothing-the-bumps/
>>
>> Scroll down.
>>
>> Getting tired of testing various outdated racing bikes against each other
>> for speed, BSNYC had the bright idea of testing his Homer against said 30
>> and 40-year-old racing bikes. Homer came in second!
>>
>> Patrick Moore who avereraged "slow" during his late summer morning bike
>> path-cum-neighborhood-meander-cum-shopping trip today.
>>
>> Incidentally, I mean to start a new photos-from-bikes thread: N*eighborhood
>> Meanders*. I got a couple of good ones today but I'll save them until I
>> have a more complete collection of "bosque-adjacent Westside Albuquerque
>> neighborhood" photos. On Tuesday I wonder if the concerned citizens of the
>> other neighborhood I meandered around and about for 30 minutes called
>> security; an all-black "immediate armed response" SUV crossed my path, and
>> I'd not seen them during any of my very many other but shorter rides over
>> the years through the same neighborhood. "ISP" -- "International Security
>> Patrol." "Keeping riffraff out of Albuquerque's better neighborhoods since
>> 1923."
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
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-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

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*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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[RBW] Rivendell bicycles and speed

[Patrick Moore]

https://bikesnobnyc.com/2024/07/25/smoothing-the-bumps/

Scroll down.

Getting tired of testing various outdated racing bikes against each other
for speed, BSNYC had the bright idea of testing his Homer against said 30
and 40-year-old racing bikes. Homer came in second!

Patrick Moore who avereraged "slow" during his late summer morning bike
path-cum-neighborhood-meander-cum-shopping trip today.

Incidentally, I mean to start a new photos-from-bikes thread: N*eighborhood
Meanders*. I got a couple of good ones today but I'll save them until I
have a more complete collection of "bosque-adjacent Westside Albuquerque
neighborhood" photos. On Tuesday I wonder if the concerned citizens of the
other neighborhood I meandered around and about for 30 minutes called
security; an all-black "immediate armed response" SUV crossed my path, and
I'd not seen them during any of my very many other but shorter rides over
the years through the same neighborhood. "ISP" -- "International Security
Patrol." "Keeping riffraff out of Albuquerque's better neighborhoods since
1923."

-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
---

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services

---

*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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[RBW] Paul Touring cantilever performance versus Paul Neo Retro

[Patrick Moore]

I started out with Neo Retros front and rear, found that the rears
intefered with panniers, and switched to Touring in the rear.

I can't really say that the front is more powerful than the rear; both have
very stiff housing hangers -- rear is brazed on, front is Rene Herse.

Others who have used both: can you say whether it's worth keeping the Neo
Retros in front?

Tho' I do hear that this f/r combo is not uncommon.

-- 

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Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
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Re: [RBW] Re: Electric Bikes and Organized Rides

[Patrick Moore]

We agree wholly on the e-bike motorcycles!

On Sun, Jul 21, 2024 at 8:10 AM John Dewey  wrote:

> Patrick, I wholeheartedly agree with you regarding the kind of e-bike
> Steve P rides.
>
> My beef is primarily with those nameless flat black fat-tire electric
> motorcycles driven mostly by children.
>
> And if we’re opening up big organized rides, then I’m for requiring the SP
> kind of pedal-assist always ride at the front and pull the rest of us
> along. Like Mathieu van der Poel.
>
> Jock
>
> On Sun, Jul 21, 2024 at 6:43 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> I can't agree entirely with John, though I certainly sympathize. My
>> experience with e-bikes is certainly less than that of many other list
>> members, but I've seen far too many polite, slow, and apparently safe
>> riders of e-bikes on our local paths to think that they all should be
>> banned from such paths.
>>
>> Of course, the question and problem is, how do you let the careful riders
>> ride e-bikes at sedate speeds while blocking the fools and jerks. I dunno.
>> But I doubt a "blanket 20 mph limit for ABQ bike paths" is going to cut the
>> mustard.
>>
>> I am less sympathetic but still sympathetic to bike shop owners who push
>> e-bikes. Sure, it's a solid revenue stream from a new and larger market,
>> but perhaps some of the burden of weeding out jerks should start with them?
>> That is, perhaps, by stocking only pedal-assist e-bikes that can't be
>> switched to full-motorcycle mode with a switch, and offering at least clear
>> literature if not 15 minute training explaining proper bike path behavior?
>>
>> Again, I dunno! But that never stops me from pontificating.
>>
>> Also, per Steve Palincsar and his very high end e-road-bike, for
>> instance, not all e-bikes are landfill fodder by any means.
>>
>> On Sun, Jul 21, 2024 at 7:36 AM John Dewey  wrote:
>>
>>> And how many of those will end in landfill as they are basically junk
>>> day one. I get e-assist for old and infirm but all the rest are a plague.
>>>
>>> On big rides, eg RAGBRAI, my .02 cents is to have them start an hour
>>> earlier…tho RAGBRAI is such a free for-all. I hate the idea of e-bikes on
>>> these sorts of events other than assist that look like any ‘normal’
>>> pedal-driven bike.
>>>
>>> And shame on bike shops for selling those abominations. Shame shame
>>> shame.
>>>
>>> Jock
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 20, 2024 at 3:54 PM Patrick Moore 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> A local bike industry representative recently proposed a bill to the
>>>> City of ABQ Council for blanket legal permission for all types of e-bikes
>>>> along with a 20 mph speed limit, the limit to be moral and legal, not
>>>> technological. My first reaction was, "Yeah, sure, and you will enforce
>>>> this exactly how?" Me, I think that there should be official obstacles for
>>>> use on recreational trails and bike lanes any motorized vehicle capable of
>>>> more than 20 mph without pedaling but I don't know what those should be or
>>>> how to impose them.
>>>>
>>>> Riding briskly along a bike path a couple of months ago I was passed at
>>>> probably 25 mph (I was going at least 15 and was passed at a large speed
>>>> difference) by a kid on a OneWheel or somesuch with no warning or vehicle
>>>> sound besides very muted tire buzz; it was a good thing I wasn't trying to
>>>> turn left. I have no problem with e-assist, but neophytes going faster than
>>>> their bike path traffic skills (let along road skils) warrant does worry 
>>>> me.
>>>>
>>>> The same thing happened a few months earlier yet: a kid on an e-bike
>>>> passed me on a bike path at a good differential without sound or warning,
>>>> his little terrier running unleashed behind him. (It was a fast terrier.)
>>>> (The kid would let the dog catch up, accelerate so that the dog would chase
>>>> him, the stop and repeat. All on the left side of the path.
>>>>
>>>> Worst yet: 18 or 24 months ago maintaining a stout 18 or so on my Riv
>>>> gofast on a pave bike path I was passed with no warning and very little
>>>> noise by a kid on an electric motorcycle who passed me, I swear, and I
>>>> don't think my imagination is fooling me, going at least 40 if not more; he
>>>> whizzed by and disappeared up the trail and around a distant corner before
>>>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Electric Bikes and Organized Rides

[Patrick Moore]

I can't agree entirely with John, though I certainly sympathize. My
experience with e-bikes is certainly less than that of many other list
members, but I've seen far too many polite, slow, and apparently safe
riders of e-bikes on our local paths to think that they all should be
banned from such paths.

Of course, the question and problem is, how do you let the careful riders
ride e-bikes at sedate speeds while blocking the fools and jerks. I dunno.
But I doubt a "blanket 20 mph limit for ABQ bike paths" is going to cut the
mustard.

I am less sympathetic but still sympathetic to bike shop owners who push
e-bikes. Sure, it's a solid revenue stream from a new and larger market,
but perhaps some of the burden of weeding out jerks should start with them?
That is, perhaps, by stocking only pedal-assist e-bikes that can't be
switched to full-motorcycle mode with a switch, and offering at least clear
literature if not 15 minute training explaining proper bike path behavior?

Again, I dunno! But that never stops me from pontificating.

Also, per Steve Palincsar and his very high end e-road-bike, for instance,
not all e-bikes are landfill fodder by any means.

On Sun, Jul 21, 2024 at 7:36 AM John Dewey  wrote:

> And how many of those will end in landfill as they are basically junk day
> one. I get e-assist for old and infirm but all the rest are a plague.
>
> On big rides, eg RAGBRAI, my .02 cents is to have them start an hour
> earlier…tho RAGBRAI is such a free for-all. I hate the idea of e-bikes on
> these sorts of events other than assist that look like any ‘normal’
> pedal-driven bike.
>
> And shame on bike shops for selling those abominations. Shame shame shame.
>
> Jock
>
> On Sat, Jul 20, 2024 at 3:54 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> A local bike industry representative recently proposed a bill to the City
>> of ABQ Council for blanket legal permission for all types of e-bikes along
>> with a 20 mph speed limit, the limit to be moral and legal, not
>> technological. My first reaction was, "Yeah, sure, and you will enforce
>> this exactly how?" Me, I think that there should be official obstacles for
>> use on recreational trails and bike lanes any motorized vehicle capable of
>> more than 20 mph without pedaling but I don't know what those should be or
>> how to impose them.
>>
>> Riding briskly along a bike path a couple of months ago I was passed at
>> probably 25 mph (I was going at least 15 and was passed at a large speed
>> difference) by a kid on a OneWheel or somesuch with no warning or vehicle
>> sound besides very muted tire buzz; it was a good thing I wasn't trying to
>> turn left. I have no problem with e-assist, but neophytes going faster than
>> their bike path traffic skills (let along road skils) warrant does worry me.
>>
>> The same thing happened a few months earlier yet: a kid on an e-bike
>> passed me on a bike path at a good differential without sound or warning,
>> his little terrier running unleashed behind him. (It was a fast terrier.)
>> (The kid would let the dog catch up, accelerate so that the dog would chase
>> him, the stop and repeat. All on the left side of the path.
>>
>> Worst yet: 18 or 24 months ago maintaining a stout 18 or so on my Riv
>> gofast on a pave bike path I was passed with no warning and very little
>> noise by a kid on an electric motorcycle who passed me, I swear, and I
>> don't think my imagination is fooling me, going at least 40 if not more; he
>> whizzed by and disappeared up the trail and around a distant corner before
>> I could collect my wits to yell an insult. But thank God that was a 1X
>> even, so far at least.
>>
>> OTOH, by far most of the now quite numerous e-bikes I see on area bike
>> paths are putting along harmlessly at 12 or 15 mph and even an old duffer
>> like me can pass them handily.
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 20, 2024 at 11:24 AM Bernard Duhon 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> One huge difference is a “lycra lout” as you ,  called them,  going 25
>>> mph may have bad manners but he has been riding a while and probably a
>>> pretty good bike handler.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> However a newbie going even 15 miles an hour his  electric bike is a
>>> danger to everyone on the road.  Including himself. When we were starting
>>> out on a human powered bike we were mostly a danger to yourself.  (and took
>>> a while before you were cruising at 12 miles an hour)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have been a lifetime of acquiring Cycling skills. I have taught the
>>> effective cycling course in the past and even seasoned cyclist benefit from
>&

Re: [RBW] F/s

[Patrick Moore]

Bill: I"ll take the panniers.

Thanks, Patrick Moore

On Sat, Jul 20, 2024 at 5:26 PM Bill Fulford 
wrote:

> Dreaming of that big bike tour? I may have some help.
> Nitto big back rack. Lightly used &125. Ortlieb bike packer panniers,
> lightly used $125. Plus shipping. Contact directly.
>
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> .
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
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*When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*

*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] Re: Electric Bikes and Organized Rides

[Patrick Moore]

A local bike industry representative recently proposed a bill to the City
of ABQ Council for blanket legal permission for all types of e-bikes along
with a 20 mph speed limit, the limit to be moral and legal, not
technological. My first reaction was, "Yeah, sure, and you will enforce
this exactly how?" Me, I think that there should be official obstacles for
use on recreational trails and bike lanes any motorized vehicle capable of
more than 20 mph without pedaling but I don't know what those should be or
how to impose them.

Riding briskly along a bike path a couple of months ago I was passed at
probably 25 mph (I was going at least 15 and was passed at a large speed
difference) by a kid on a OneWheel or somesuch with no warning or vehicle
sound besides very muted tire buzz; it was a good thing I wasn't trying to
turn left. I have no problem with e-assist, but neophytes going faster than
their bike path traffic skills (let along road skils) warrant does worry me.

The same thing happened a few months earlier yet: a kid on an e-bike passed
me on a bike path at a good differential without sound or warning, his
little terrier running unleashed behind him. (It was a fast terrier.) (The
kid would let the dog catch up, accelerate so that the dog would chase him,
the stop and repeat. All on the left side of the path.

Worst yet: 18 or 24 months ago maintaining a stout 18 or so on my Riv
gofast on a pave bike path I was passed with no warning and very little
noise by a kid on an electric motorcycle who passed me, I swear, and I
don't think my imagination is fooling me, going at least 40 if not more; he
whizzed by and disappeared up the trail and around a distant corner before
I could collect my wits to yell an insult. But thank God that was a 1X
even, so far at least.

OTOH, by far most of the now quite numerous e-bikes I see on area bike
paths are putting along harmlessly at 12 or 15 mph and even an old duffer
like me can pass them handily.

On Sat, Jul 20, 2024 at 11:24 AM Bernard Duhon 
wrote:

> One huge difference is a “lycra lout” as you ,  called them,  going 25 mph
> may have bad manners but he has been riding a while and probably a pretty
> good bike handler.
>
>
>
> However a newbie going even 15 miles an hour his  electric bike is a
> danger to everyone on the road.  Including himself. When we were starting
> out on a human powered bike we were mostly a danger to yourself.  (and took
> a while before you were cruising at 12 miles an hour)
>
>
>
> We have been a lifetime of acquiring Cycling skills. I have taught the
> effective cycling course in the past and even seasoned cyclist benefit from
> these type of courses.
>
>
>
> You cannot get a driver's license without passing a drivers test and
> almost everyone has taken a driver's Ed course.
>
>
>
> Some point in the power/speed scale education courses should be
> encouraged./promoted by the sellers.
>
>
>
> And 20 mph on ebike is too fast for an unskilled novice and that is the
> speed limit on a lot of trails.
>
>
>
> That having been said, there are a lot of bicycles you shouldn't put a
> novice cyclist on. I know several people who started out riding on a tri,
> time trial and crisp handling race bike and injured themselves. They had no
> business starting off on a bike like that and shame on the bike industry
> for putting them on that kind of bike.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Your Riv's Next Upgades / Parts Swaps

[Patrick Moore]

Apparently rim or sidewall dynamos are getting better. I've been intrigued
but not enough to switch from hub dynamos.

https://www.cyclingabout.com/rim-dynamos-can-now-generate-more-power-than-hub-dynamos/

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/so-it-turns-out-rim-dynamos-dont-suck-anymore

https://www.dutchbikebits.com/axa-hr-traction-dynamo

I used a cheap, very old Union or Sanyo bottle and it wasn't at all as bad
as Bart Simpson made it out to be; rather like riding up a very slight
grade or into a slight headwind. And the Sanyo bb dynamo had less drag. The
best bottle I used was an at-the-time *very* expensive 12 volt system that
gave a halogen beam as bright as modern LED beams and that had surprisingly
little drag. I wish I'd kept that one but I sold it with the Herse it was
mounted on.

https://youtu.be/9MAkl8tEsnA

As to upgrades on the Riv (copy), better cable routing for the rightside
trigger shifter for the IGH, new bar tape, and a slight adjustment of bar
tilt and brake lever height.



On Mon, Jul 15, 2024 at 8:48 AM tio ryan  wrote:

> Lovin' this discussion. For me, only 1 of my bikes currently has a dynamo
> light setup, and it's not my Platypus. In an ideal world, all of my bikes
> (Rivs especially) would have generators.
>
> Since I lack wheel building experience, it feels like purchasing multiple
> dynamo setups would be wasteful and more of a financial burden than the
> hassle of swapping rechargeable lights — especially since I can only ride
> one bike at a time. For now, I keep my eyes open for any "deals".
>
> -tio "*searchin' for the light*" ryan
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Road-ish tire suggestions for my new Homer

[Patrick Moore]

Another opinion: I use standard casing RHs set up tubeless on gravel, sand,
and pavement with no problem. I'd be confident with ELs too, except the RH
ELs seem to seep sealant thru the sidewalls. I've used even ultralighter
Somas and Schwalbes (lighter than equivalent RH extralights by 100+ grams
per tire) and these worked fine on gravel and dirt, tubeless, and without
weeping sealant.

I'd use Endurance casings for sharp rocks, though.

Question for all: speak to me of RH extralight tires set up tubeless and
sealant: do yours weep sealant thru the sidewalls?

On Mon, Jul 8, 2024 at 2:51 PM DavidP  wrote:

> Congrats on the Homer!
>
> RH tires are great, I've used standard and endurance casings. I'd
> recommend endurance casing for tubeless. I ran a 650x48 standard casing
> tubeless for awhile but went back to a tube in that one.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: chain rub

[Patrick Moore]

The bent hanger suggestion is a very good one and responds to the fact that
the rub is only on the lower chain run. I'll be interested to hear what
Mike finds, and I wonder how many of my own der hangers have been slightly
bent but hidden by friction shifting.


On Sun, Jul 7, 2024 at 12:09 PM Mike Rossi  wrote:

> Yes, Will, it’s one of my favorite tools. I have a feeling there are quite
> a few Riv owners with friction shifters riding around with hangers that are
> misaligned. But, I suppose that can be seen as an added benefit to friction
> shifting.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jul 7, 2024, at 10:48 AM, Will Boericke  wrote:
>
> It wasn't until I got a hanger alignment tool that I realized how many
> bikes have misaligned hangers.  I use it all the time!  And newer
> drivetrains are definitely much more sensitive to misalignment.  All to
> say, this sounds like an alignment issue to me as well
>
>
> Will
>
> On Sunday, July 7, 2024 at 9:23:16 AM UTC-4 Steve wrote:
>
>> What Mike Rossi said!  That would explain the peculiar situation of the
>> chain rub at the bottom only.
>>
>> My money is on Mike.
>>
>> On Sunday, July 7, 2024 at 8:35:39 AM UTC-4 Mike Rossi wrote:
>>
>>> Also, you mentioned chain rubbing at the bottom and not the top. When I
>>> received my frameset I had to adjust the derailleur hanger as it was
>>> misaligned. That may be an issue as well.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Rivendell Prototype mountain bike for sale

[Patrick Moore]

Wasn't the original Riv mountain bike built generally along the lines of
the All Rounder which was modeled on the Bridgestone XOs, thus with far
lower stack than later Rivs?

The 55 cm (c-c) '92 XO-1 had a 56.5 or 57 cm tt and the All Rounder was
modeled on this, thus with far less tt slope and shorter head and steerer
than later Riv models. My 26" wheel '95 road custom was built with the All
Rounder as general model (tho' with steeper angles and road tubing and
lugs) -- in fact IIRC it had an even shorter 54 cm c-c st  -- with the same
tt and only a slight upslope, along with only modestly extended head and
steerer. To get a drop bar to fit properly you just had to use a high-rise
stem. A Technomic or T Deluxe or Dirt Drop would have worked fine had they
been available then, but I got a custom Salsa.

For context, my ideal level tt frame size is 60 X 56-57 c-c. Two later 26"
wheel road customs had taller frames (57 and 58, c-c), more tt slope, and
much more steerer and head extension, so that I could get my Maes Parallels
sufficiently high with standard "7" road stems.

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Re: [RBW] Re: chain rub

[Patrick Moore]

First, check chainline.

Doesn't the Gus have typical long Rivendell stays? This should structurally
minimize the chance of such chain rub, so perhaps your spindle is too short
for proper chainline. Does Riv spec a spindle length for that frame and a
1X11?

OTOH, if the chainline is correct but you still need to add another couple
of mm to the drive side spindle for the chain to clear the tire, perhaps
adding a 1 or 2 mm spacer behind the DS cup will fix things, chainline be
damned.

IMO chain clearance is more important than a perfect line. To paraphrase
what Grant said years and years ago when someone fretted that slighly
imperfect chainline might accelerate chain and sprocket wear, "If you are
riding enough to replace chains and cogs more frequently than you think you
should, then you are lucky to be riding so much." And modern chains do
tolerate a lot of deflection without greatly affecting performance or wear.








On Sat, Jul 6, 2024 at 8:12 PM Steve  wrote:

> David, would a wider bottom bracket axle solve the issue?  How long is the
> current one?
>
>
>
> On Saturday, July 6, 2024 at 5:40:45 PM UTC-4 David Ross wrote:
>
>> I built up a Gus recently. I used a 1x11 Deore derailleur and the chain
>> rubs the tire in the largest cog. The chain above the chain stay clears the
>> tire, but below the chain stay the chain rubs the tire. Is my problem 1x11
>> cassettes with 135 spacing? I'm only running 2.25 tires and the Gus is
>> rated up to 2.6. Any help would be much appreciated.
>
> -

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Re: [RBW] Re: A PSA From Gordon Ramsay

[Patrick Moore]

This is a reasonable attitude toward helmet use. Apparently Dutch cyclists
don't use them by and large -- from what I've read, using a helmet would be
considered odd by most Dutch cyclists -- yet have among the lowest rate of
cycling head injuries in the world (if someone can recall the study more
clearly and give a link or the particulars, I'd be grateful). And of course
there is always Jobst Brandt.

I too have read that statistically walking is more dangerous to your head
than cycling.

Max S said of riding sans helmet "2) more drivers give me greater courtesy
/ respect than before." Do others have this experience? Does anyone know
why this might be so? I haven't used a helmet for close to 25 years and I
can't say that I've noticed a difference in driver behavior. But I ride
very carefully which includes the (I think) right amount of self-assertion.



On Mon, Jun 17, 2024 at 3:21 PM Edwin W  wrote:

> The current advice (from doctors and public health types) seems to be
> binary: always wear a helmet when biking, never wear a helmet when walking
> or driving. That seems to be missing some nuance!
>
> I would tweak it to say: consider a helmet when skiing fast, biking on
> single track, or biking very fast in a tight pack with friends. But then
> what about walking and driving (when most American TBIs happen)? Never? Not
> even in the most dangerous conditions: night time, snowy, icy or wet roads?
> Walking on ice or snow? No, it is quite safe, though when bad things
> happen, it is bad.
>
> Edwin
>
> On Monday, June 17, 2024 at 3:28:33 PM UTC-5 tio ryan wrote:
>
>> Here's my helmet origin story, if anybody cares:
>>
>> I got doored in July of 2011 (so I was told, no memory of the crash) and
>> spent 2 nights in the hospital. While recovering at home, I realized my
>> taste was altered and I no longer had *any* sense of smell. I saw
>> a neurologist, got a MRI, and was told this condition is called "anosmia"
>> and there was no treatment for it. However, it was possible my sense of
>> smell could someday return on its own. You might think that experience
>> would've scared me straight and I'd be a helmet-no-matter-what type of
>> rider, but alas. I did purchase my "dream" helmet after that crash, a
>> Catlike Compact, but I mostly wore it on my commutes to and from work. I
>> never wore a helmet when I was riding around for fun or going somewhere
>> other than the office — and I ride around nyc on a daily basis.
>>
>> 12 years later (still without a sense of smell) I had an eerily similar
>> situation where I was riding my bike and regained consciousness in the back
>> of an ambulance, confused what led me there. Once again, I was without a
>> helmet. I hit my head pretty good this time too, requiring stitches in my
>> forehead, as well as a fractured rib (ouch). I unfortunately did not regain
>> my sense of smell, but I felt lucky to survive another TBI. Since then,
>> I've purchased a few different helmets and I don't ride my bike without one
>> on my head, plus quality lights & reflective gear at night.
>>
>> -tio "life without a sense of smell is pretty bleak" ryan
>>
>> On Monday, June 17, 2024 at 11:24:22 AM UTC-4 Max S wrote:
>>
>>> Very nicely put, Mathias. I can relate my experiences with riding on
>>> city streets, mountain biking, gravel riding, racing in crits, crashing in
>>> various ways, *etc.*, but it's all borderline article-of-faith stuff,
>>> anyway. While I used to wear a helmet on rides religiously between ages 15
>>> and 30, at some point I started to get massive headaches after just a half
>>> hour of doing so. I've tried many different shapes and brands, some costing
>>> upward of $250, same thing. So, for the past 15+ years, I've taken to
>>> riding mainly dirt roads and stopped wearing a helmet. My speed and
>>> position haven't changed. I've noticed two main things:  1) I don't get
>>> headaches from riding, and 2) more drivers give me greater courtesy /
>>> respect than before.
>>>
>>> - Max "living on the edge" in A2
>>>
>>> On Monday, June 17, 2024 at 8:41:41 AM UTC-4 Mathias Steiner wrote:
>>>
 The logic here is sound. Wear a helmet all the time.

 The issue is that the same logic applies to wearing a helmet while
 driving. Most head injuries occur in car accidents. And then there's the
 home, slip & falls etc. A biking buddy of mine slipped on ice and hit his
 head, had to go to the hospital for a few days. No he wasn't wearing a
 helmet. Wasn't cycling either. So what am I supposed to do, put on a helmet
 when I get up in the morning?

 I mix and match, and always wear it on group rides, which were the only
 occasions I've crashed over the years.
 To make matters more complicated, I seem to get more respect from, ah,
 rural traffic when I'm wearing a ball cap. Strictly anecdotal, of course.

 cheers -m

 On Monday, June 17, 2024 at 12:28:40 AM UTC-4 Nick A. wrote:

> *TBI sorry all
>
> On

Re: [RBW] The 3x1 road bike. Anticipating some of your RoadUNO builds

[Patrick Moore]

Correction understood; thanks.

On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 3:32 PM Bill Lindsay  wrote:

> Patrick Moore translation services ACTIVATE.
>
> When Patrick Moore says: "Phil DOS FW in 17/19 and 20/22"
> He means: "White Industries DOS ENO freewheel in 17/19 and 20/22"
>
> Patrick Moore translation services TERMINATE
>
> "I'd thought that these were no longer made"
>
> No, it's just the 16/19 that is no longer made.
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Saturday, June 15, 2024 at 2:27:44 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> I linked to the site and see that Riv still offers the Phil DOS FW in
>> 17/19 and 20/22: I'd thought that these were no longer made. Good to know
>> that they are still available, if quite expensive. Me, I keep an eye on
>> them for the future, but for now I'm good with a lifetime supply of 17/19
>> Dingle fixed cogs.
>>
>> As to $2400 + shipping for a complete Roaduno: that seems pretty
>> reasonable to me, given Grant's superlative designs and the quality (I
>> assume, judging from the Rivs I've owned). From a very casual Google
>> search: the single drop-barred single speed road bike I saw on the
>> Performance site is 1,600 and that's mass produced from aluminum with no
>> pedals and Joytech hubs.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 7:12 AM tio ryan  wrote:
>>
>>> Highly anticipated Roaduno update in this weeks newsletter!
>>>
>>> [06/14/2024 - Sams are here, and Roadunos are next
>>> <http://eepurl.com/iR2r6Q>]
>>>
>>> On Thursday, June 13, 2024 at 3:41:14 PM UTC-4 tio ryan wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks Michael! I must have missed that when I got unsubscribed from
>>>> the email list. Assuming it's the mustard
>>>> <https://global.bluelug.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1a9dc928500ac84b4fd0d627a5fdfbb3/_/a/_a248989-6.jpg>
>>>> and silver
>>>> <https://global.bluelug.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1a9dc928500ac84b4fd0d627a5fdfbb3/a/2/a2407181_2.jpg>
>>>> from those Blue Lug images, this will be a tough choice.
>>>>
>>>> Tio "mustard-curious" Ryan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thursday, June 13, 2024 at 12:42:01 PM UTC-4 Michael Connors wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> From the 4/26 email newsletter-
>>>>> The Roaduno colors that *will* be available are: *Silver, Purple, and
>>>>> Mustard*. Silver will sell out first, but blessed be the flexible who
>>>>> get whichever is available in their size; they all look good, and keep in
>>>>> mind that our photos never do the colors justice. Mustard is the most 
>>>>> toned
>>>>> down but it has a little sparkle in the sun and looks fantastic once it's
>>>>> dusty and well used. It would be nuts to expect everybody to like Purple,
>>>>> but if you could see it in person I'm sure we could convince everybody
>>>>> who's on or even near the fence to get one.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5d9a9a10-8a9a-448c-9898-ce46797588f3n%40googlegroups.com
>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5d9a9a10-8a9a-448c-9898-ce46797588f3n%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services
>>
>>
>> -------
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
> --
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Re: [RBW] The 3x1 road bike. Anticipating some of your RoadUNO builds

[Patrick Moore]

I linked to the site and see that Riv still offers the Phil DOS FW in 17/19
and 20/22: I'd thought that these were no longer made. Good to know that
they are still available, if quite expensive. Me, I keep an eye on them for
the future, but for now I'm good with a lifetime supply of 17/19 Dingle
fixed cogs.

As to $2400 + shipping for a complete Roaduno: that seems pretty reasonable
to me, given Grant's superlative designs and the quality (I assume, judging
from the Rivs I've owned). From a very casual Google search: the single
drop-barred single speed road bike I saw on the Performance site is 1,600
and that's mass produced from aluminum with no pedals and Joytech hubs.


On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 7:12 AM tio ryan  wrote:

> Highly anticipated Roaduno update in this weeks newsletter!
>
> [06/14/2024 - Sams are here, and Roadunos are next
> <http://eepurl.com/iR2r6Q>]
>
> On Thursday, June 13, 2024 at 3:41:14 PM UTC-4 tio ryan wrote:
>
>> Thanks Michael! I must have missed that when I got unsubscribed from the
>> email list. Assuming it's the mustard
>> <https://global.bluelug.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1a9dc928500ac84b4fd0d627a5fdfbb3/_/a/_a248989-6.jpg>
>> and silver
>> <https://global.bluelug.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1a9dc928500ac84b4fd0d627a5fdfbb3/a/2/a2407181_2.jpg>
>> from those Blue Lug images, this will be a tough choice.
>>
>> Tio "mustard-curious" Ryan
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, June 13, 2024 at 12:42:01 PM UTC-4 Michael Connors wrote:
>>
>>> From the 4/26 email newsletter-
>>> The Roaduno colors that *will* be available are: *Silver, Purple, and
>>> Mustard*. Silver will sell out first, but blessed be the flexible who
>>> get whichever is available in their size; they all look good, and keep in
>>> mind that our photos never do the colors justice. Mustard is the most toned
>>> down but it has a little sparkle in the sun and looks fantastic once it's
>>> dusty and well used. It would be nuts to expect everybody to like Purple,
>>> but if you could see it in person I'm sure we could convince everybody
>>> who's on or even near the fence to get one.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> .
>


-- 

Patrick Moore
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---

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---

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*But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*

*I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] Re: FS: Bags, Sackville, Chrome, Carradice

[Patrick Moore]

The Nitto bar bag bracket is a very neat and compact design; I had one long
ago with an early-Rivendell-sold boxy bar bag that, I think but am not
completely certain, was made by Carradice. That bar bag plus the bracket
for $100 is a good deal.

Patrick "sorry, I don't use bar bags, but if I did " Moore

On Sat, Jun 15, 2024 at 2:49 PM Jim M.  wrote:

> Barley is gone.
>
> On Saturday, June 15, 2024 at 12:06:11 PM UTC-7 Jim M. wrote:
>
>> New link:
>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kUHv4ekQYuLq15j9vcdITLimiM6QDShA?usp=sharing
>>
>> On Saturday, June 15, 2024 at 11:56:12 AM UTC-7 Jim M. wrote:
>>
>>> All bags are used, in good shape, not beat or stained. Sackville and
>>> Barley have seen some randonees and touring, others were used for bike
>>> commuting.
>>>
>>> Shipping price added to price listed below / Pics here:
>>>
>>> https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1kUHv4ekQYuLq15j9vcdITLimiM6QDShA?usp=drive_link
>>>
>>> Sackville handlebar bag $100 (I don't remember model name but they don't
>>> make it any longer), magnetic top closure, comes with nifty Nitto bar
>>> mount
>>>
>>> Sackville Grabsack, $40
>>>
>>> Carradice Barley, $75
>>>
>>> Chrome messenger backpack $50 (not sure which model, but from back when
>>> they sewed in San Francisco)
>>>
>>> TImbuk2 classic messenger shoulder bag, medium, $50 (also from back when
>>> they sewed in San Francisco)
>>>
>>> happy trails!
>>> jim m
>>> walnut creek, ca
>>>
>> --
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> .
>


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