[RBW] Re: Friction 9 V 10 speed

[ascpgh]

What makes friction work for me isn't only about holding the derailleur 
position, ie: not having frame flex produce cable pull or the lever slip, 
but rather the tactile ability to quickly and accurately move to the next 
cog without need to trim. If the feedback required to do that is only 
sounds, perhaps the Campy cassette has a greater ability to cope silently 
with a bit of trim needed but is really close to engaging the ramps to the 
next cog (presuming your ghost shifting is to a larger cog). 

On my Rambouillet I have 8-Spd Shimano cassette, Suntour Barcons and a 
fixed RD upper pulley (vs floating) Mavic 840/845 RD. I can feel the need 
for trim through the pedals and at the lever when making the shift. This is 
an easy to shift bike in situations with lots of noise. I found out last 
week riding this bike for the first time in a couple of years on a regular 
group ride that it does not accoustically  telegraph my shifts compared to 
all the hollow/resonant CFRP index only shifting bikes (cable or wireless) 
drive trains. Those seem to cultivate pedaling through shifts, no matter 
how hard you are pedaling and some really audible shifting events. Unsure 
if this is just novice rider behavior or a rationalizing selling point for 
the more experienced rider who thinks easing on the pedals is weakness and 
a source of speed loss. Either way, others listen for shifting as a cue in 
groups, actively or passively and my drive train doesn't give it. 

On my commuter I have 8-Spd Shimano cassette, Shimano bar end shifters and 
a floating upper pulley Shimano XT RD. I cannot as accurately friction 
shift this drive train despite my commuting times providing a pretty quiet 
environment and still do not have as confident friction shifting due to 
less tactile feedback from either the levers or pedals and I mostly leave 
it in indexing mode.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh 

On Monday, April 15, 2024 at 9:27:21 PM UTC-4 ber...@bernardduhon.com wrote:

> I have been friction  shifting my 10 speed campy set up. 11-26 X 44-28 
> Crank is Sugino. 
> Was not happy with performance , ghosts shifts up when spinning & down 
> when stomping the pedals.  
> Switched up to a 34-11 Shimano
> Nothing else changed 
> Seems to be working really well. 
>  
> Previous threads and literature suggests that the closer the cogs in 10 & 
> 11 speeds makes for better friction shifting.
>  
> What has been your experience?  
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: Hard Miles

[ascpgh]

Thanks for the reminder Leah. The film also stars Matthew Modine who I 
first spotted in a movie called Vision Quest. Nothing quite like setting a 
goal and pursuing it. Based on a Terry Davis novel praised by John Irving.

I'm in. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Friday, April 12, 2024 at 1:37:28 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> There’s a new movie premiering next week called Hard Miles, and I think it 
> will delight us. It’s based on a true story about some youth in the justice 
> system riding their bikes from CO to the Grand Canyon, a 750+ mile venture. 
> There are some big names in the movie, notably Sean Astin, who played 
> Samwise Gamgee in LOTR, AND THERE’S YOUR RIVENDELL CONNECTION YOU’RE 
> WELCOME.
>
> I never see movies anymore (I can’t sit still that long) but I plan to see 
> this one.
> Here’s the trailer:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxwcSaXXAZE
>
> Leah
>

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[RBW] Re: AliExpress

[ascpgh]

Patrick wrote: "...which leads me to wonder if they don't have warehouses 
scattered around in their biggest markets, like the US?"

I can't imagine the cost of a physical inventory that would be defined by 
even what seems a narrow bicycle part search on the internet. Managing that 
inventory and keeping up with what you have invested in that vast storage 
would be mind boggling. The simple concept that non-moving stock becomes 
more expensive as it sits and ages due to interest on the wholesale cost 
becomes numbing as lines of SKUs increase.

AliExpress, et al seem to have looked at parameters of accounting and 
management used in old manual inventory systems like rate of use, days of 
supply, days of restock, FIFO, LIFO to find which variables could be more 
fixed to save cost of delivered products.. They seem to have control over 
manufacturing and shipping. It's not just in time, but close. They've 
reduced the record keeping hassle of varying material costs, age of 
inventory, cost of inventory (interest on line of credit tied to on-hand 
stock) this way. The biggest shift of burdens is updating website listings 
without becoming so fluid that pricing is different every time an item is 
viewed online.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh



On Friday, April 5, 2024 at 12:57:25 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Thanks again, Garth. I just ordered 10X 2.0, 2.18, and 2.35 mm Shimano 
> spacers for total of $30.20 with shipping and tax. AE did well with my 
> clumsily-placed orders of Shimano 10 sp cogs (instead of thinking ahead and 
> making 1 order for 3 different sizes I frenziedly hit "buy" 3 times and 
> paid extra for shipping); far easier than trying to get a LBS to find and 
> order 3 each of 3 cogs, and far cheaper than ordering from Europe, where 
> shipping costs seem to have tripled since COVID.
>
> Curious about AliExpress: search for a 22 t Shimano 10 sp cog and you get 
> 2 dozen offerings many of which give you a price of $0.83 and when you 
> click "yes please" they don't let you buy more than 1, or else the price 
> skyrockets to $2.72 -- still very cheap, of course.
>
> I received my shipments in a bit over a week with shipping for small 
> packages of 3 or 4 cogs under $7,  which leads me to wonder if they don't 
> have warehouses scattered around in their biggest markets, like the US?
>
> At any rate, with spacers of 3 different widths I figure I'm well sorted 
> for any cassette build; as Garth very helpfully pointed out, Miche 10-sp 
> Shimano substitute cogs are 0.2 mm wider in the body (1.8 mm versus 1.6 mm 
> for Shimano cogs) tho' their teeth are 1.6 mm; which means that they take 2 
> mm instead of 2.35 mm spacers -- the total width is about 36 mm in either 
> case.
>
> But the cassette I built on Saturday with 10 1.6 mm cogs and 9 2 mm 
> spacers shifts just as well and identically to the other 10 sp cassetted 
> made from 10 Miche cogs and 9 2 mm spacers, without any derailleur 
> adjustment; so who knows. I did order 2.18 mm ones to split the difference.
>
> -- 
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>

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[RBW] Re: Long Chainstays - What Problem/Deficiency Do They Solve?

[ascpgh]

The U Factor 


Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Sunday, March 31, 2024 at 1:50:18 PM UTC-4 John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ 
wrote:

> Enjoyed reading the thread "Anyone else not a fan of long chainstays?", 
> especially Bill L's explanation of the RBW bike design philosophy.   Seems 
> the prevailing thought is long stays are better for
> upright riding
> single track type trails (vs a Rails to Trails type trail)
>
> I'll just note 2 'facts'
> 1  The vast majority of RBW models (except the Roadeo type frame) use 
> slack STA and HTA which may contribute to the ride effect when coupled with 
> long stays.
> 2.  In the beginning RBW addressed getting the bars higher and adopting a 
> non-racer riding style (back at 45° with hands on hoods), which IMHO were 
> solutions to actual problems.
>
> *So What problem or current deficiency in bike design is Grant solving by 
> using long chain stays*
> Just to bring bikes to market that no one else is building??
> Or do they solve a real problem???
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> FWIW 2 of 3 of my frames have 44 to 45cm chain stays, and 1 has a 43cm 
> chain stay.It's hard to notice a ride difference.
>

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[RBW] Re: Clem Chainstay Ding Peer Review Request

[ascpgh]

Tough scenario...

I agree with Patrick, it's a new to you item damaged from when you put your 
money  into the bike you wanted but is now different of condition. A detail 
that kicking in your buyer's foothold includes is the seller's option to 
refund you and take it back. I'm thinking that may not be the resolution 
that best suits your interest in this purchase.

I agree with Josiah that this is essentially a cosmetic fault at this time, 
it's close enough to a weld that there is plenty of metal in that tube's 
wall thickness. Being at the low end of the frame, if it was mine, I'd pick 
the flaked paint until I reached the margin of the firmly intact and 
execute a DYI spot refinish/repaint to protect the bare metal and ride on. 

Once you mount the BB and your crank, the spot of that ding and the 
degradation to the nice Clem you found will be difficult to see. This is on 
par with chainsuck damage occurring to folks who subsequently had no issues 
with for many miles and years of riding.  I think you could touch up the 
fork crown ding with adequate fill and finish to make it easily get lost in 
the enjoyment of the riding. 

I'd land in the middle and ask the seller for a little perk for the fork 
and stay damage, dress the paint nicks appropriately, build it up and ride. 
I don't think anyone would consider my Rambouillet's patina-ed condition in 
comparison, it would probably rank as salvage under the 20 years' 
"beausage" as Grant defined. I think it's next level, what I think of as 
beausavage. Nothing structural (broken rear dropout replaced with a new 
pair and the  brake bridge re-brazed) but definitely aesthetically 
detrimental, and I love it still.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Friday, March 29, 2024 at 2:47:17 PM UTC-4 Chris Halasz wrote:

> Received a used XL Clem frame, and the removed fork separated from its 
> packaging, and nestled into the chainstay. 
>
> The ding is about a third of an inch long, a quarter inch wide, and 0.023" 
> deep. 
>
> Curious to know whether others have experienced similar, and whether 
> there's consensus for repair. 
>
> I'll refrain from biasing the jury. 
>
> The interface: 
>
> [image: Clem_Fork_Ding.jpeg]
>
> Closeup of the damage. 
>
> [image: Clem_Chainstay.jpeg]
>
> Thanks all! 
>
> Chris 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: How do I know when a saddle fits?

[ascpgh]

Emily, I have dealt with roughly your sort of physiological dimensioning my 
whole riding life and currently have three variations of coping, each with 
saddles that bear varying results. Those results have inseparable 
connection to how well each of the bikes they are on fits me. 

My commuter is a stock Surly Disc Trucker "box bike". I added a Brooks 
B-17, pedals , Nitto RM 013 handlebar, dyno hub/ lights and a shorter a 
stem. The frame size that produced the best reach to the handlebars 
required a long  extension of the seat post and would have required a 
pretty high angle stem for those bars to be level with the seat, my comfort 
zone, and would also need significant setback dimension of the seat post 
head. The frame size that gives the best pedaling position requires a short 
stem to keep me from reaching, sort of. I still feel like I reach for the 
bars on that bike and do not ride it more than 20 miles. Even on the bigger 
size I find my legs drive me to slide back on the seat, onto the cantle 
(that metal thing) for many climbs before I pedal out of the saddle. Lots 
of compromises but it's my 14 hour lock up bike.

My Rivendell Rambouillet was the best stock bike fit to my body I'd ever 
experienced and prevented me from going custom. Grant envisioned it as a 
long hours in the saddle sporty/light touring bike in the French 
audax/randonnour-inspired design for comfort over hours of riding. Shorter 
top tube than seat tube, with 2° upslope and 2 cm extended top head tube 
lug all conspired to provide this. It all conspires to fitting me well. It 
was a stock build kit from Riv with the B-17, RM 013 bars, I added the 
fenders, and changed the derailleurs, shifters and brakes. I do pedal from 
the saddle quite a bit more than others in groups before getting out of it 
and standing for hills. I still find myself sliding back on the seat for a 
rearward position to get some pushing forward on the pedal strokes when 
going uphill. That puts me on that cantle again, less than on the commuter 
but with the bars in more comfortable reach.

I finally did go custom to for the sort of riding I have available and 
enjoy from my front door. I've refined what I look for in saddles, 
acknowledging that I do stay on the saddle across more terrain than others, 
scooting rearward for that pushing bit where others pop up, pedaling out of 
their saddles. That fore and aft position range has made me a connoisseur 
of saddle tops that have a platform of surface wide enough for my sit bones 
but also retaining that in the longitudal dimension of my back and forth 
positioning. I want that platform to be level and I don't want extra 
material rubbing my legs. 

I am using a Rivet Pearl with cut out on my custom bike. The cut out lets 
the centerline of the leather "hammock" between the nose and cantle without 
the same amount of weight my sit bones applied to those spots that breaks 
in the points where they do bear weight. Without the cut out, that leather 
remains a linear high ridge from front to back where the less skeletal 
portions of my rear end are perched. I thought I had picked perfectly when 
I chose the Rivet Diablo but after three months' riding and several 
centuries everything was breaking in nicely except for that ridge line down 
the center and it was creating discomfort. They were quick to respond to my 
issue and sent the the cut out version of the Pearl which has been perfect 
ever since. 

Hope this is of some help to your situation. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh







On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 11:46:29 PM UTC-4 Emily Guise wrote:

> Hey all, thanks so much for your insights! I'm local to Portland OR, and 
> there is a bike fitter in town, Pedal PT, who also does physical therapy. 
> I've been wondering if I should get a fit with them, and it seems like I 
> should look into it more seriously.
>
> My travel/adventure/distance bike is a Bike Friday, and that's the one I'd 
> get fit. I do tend to like the flatter saddles, and usually ride with the 
> nose titled up. A challenge is that I have very long arms and legs but a 
> shorter torso. Anyone with a similar body type have any advice?
>
> I have tried women's specific saddles- I tried a Terry Liberator for a 
> while, but it was just SO hard, even though the cutout was fantastic. The 
> same with the Brookses, I always felt like I was sitting on the metal edge 
> or the leather was as unforgiving as wood and as uncomfortable. I'm trying 
> out Riv's new plastic saddle on my Platypus right now. It's sort of 
> comfortable but also feels maybe not quite wide enough. I'll have to give 
> it a few more weeks. 
>
>
> On Thursday, March 28, 2024 at 7:22:12 AM UTC-7 John Dewey wrote:
>
>> Roberta, have you experimented with a cut-out saddle? 
>>
>> Jock
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 26, 2024 at 12:20 AM Roberta  wrote:
>>
>>> The Philadelphia Trek store can measure sits bones. Perhaps there is one 
>>> near you to give you some direction?
>>>
>>> I prefer a 

Re: [RBW] Re: I have questions

[ascpgh]

While not an "on the ride" charging option, portable solar panel rigs are 
becoming close to interesting for situations where sunlight can be tapped 
for charging devices or bricks. An NYT take on panels and banks: NYT 
Wirecutter review 


I hope development soon reaches a point where a bag top solar panel might 
have utilitarian output more than a dynamo hub for maintaining a smartphone 
and a brick/power bank, not just an array that can be opened up when 
stopped. Powering a bank is the key, it buffers devices from fluctuating 
outputs. That function in a bicycle light was just too much as Peter 
described. 

Even if not used while riding, an easily deployed solar panel charging 
system that you could pop out when stopping could scavenge powering 
opportunitiees as you go. Lunchtime, time at destination before sunset. As 
the military relies increasingly on devices carried by individuals a 
performance balance between carrying charged batteries/bricks and 
recharging options is evolving and offering greater independence.

My wife's neice and engineer husband finished out their Transit van for 
living at the onset of the pandemic. He was knew to let someone with 
knowledge and skills install a solar roof panel and power bank specified to 
their living and working from the van. While the he grasped the concept of 
a charging, storing and use draw of electricity, he did not appreciate the 
same for the water system and used the tiny transfer pump's output directly 
to faucet or shower instead of employing an accumulator/point of use 
reservoir. It was the intolerable issue that ended their van life period in 
the western National Parks. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh 

On Monday, March 25, 2024 at 8:41:26 PM UTC-4 divis...@gmail.com wrote:

> Essentially, this was what Busch & Muller did with the Luxos U, which 
> everyone but me seems to have disliked. It's one of the heaviest LED 
> headlights of the last 15 years, specifically because there's a lithium 
> battery inside the headlight enclosure. The dynamo charges up the battery, 
> and then the battery allows a steady-level filtered power to the USB device 
> and (I believe) both the head and tail lights. The headlight's stand light 
> definitely comes off the internal battery, rather than from a capacitor; 
> when I come into the house with my headlight on and wander away without 
> switching it pff, it will sometimes stay lit for a few hours - which I 
> often only notice when I'm switching off all the ceiling lights as I go to 
> bed.
>
> "Hey! That damn headlight's still on!"
>
> The steady power supply eliminates the risk of damage to USB-chargeable 
> computerish devices, or at least reduces the risk. It's the same as any 
> other USB storage battery, although it's smaller than most external 
> charging bricks.
>
> I got a lot of experience using the charger in February-April 2020, just 
> before and going into the pandemic. The Bay Area had a horrendous windstorm 
> on February 9, with winds approaching 70 MPH near the Bay and 110-120 on 
> the crest of the Berkeley Hills. Among other damage at my house (two large 
> branches torn off a giant incense cedar in my backyard which came crashing 
> down on my neighbor's elaborately maintained garden, just as my neighbor 
> and his wife were looking out the back window to see what the storm was 
> doing - resulting in nearly a year of financial drama), the storm made the 
> city-owned street tree in my parking strip sway wildly, finally ripping the 
> power drop cable from PG out of my wall, cutting off all electricity. 
> After PG capped the live line and told me that the location of the break 
> meant that it was my financial responsibility to fix, I restored the 
> connection and then got into a two-month pissing match with PG (every 
> Northern Californian's most hated utility) before they reconnected it after 
> I pulled strings with then-Berkeley City Councilmember Kate Harrison, who 
> called up a midlevel exec at the utility and did a little yelling. My power 
> was restarted before the end of that day.
>
> In the meantime, my life sort of stopped. I was roaming around the city 
> with power strips, charging bricks, and chargers for a laptop and phone 
> trying to collect enough juice each day from libraries and cafes to limp 
> through the night and do it all again the next day. The generator+USB 
> charger on the Luxos U came into play, both to incrementally recharge my 
> phone and to charge charger bricks, which I could then use to recharge 
> other gadgets. The experience taught me a lot of survivalist skills, and it 
> also taught me where there are uncontrolled publicly accessible wall 
> sockets and WiFi (East Bay tidbit: There are tons of open AC outlets on 
> Lower Sproul Plaza at UC Berkeley, presumably for prospective 
> students/parents on campus tours, and the open WiFi network from the ASUC 
> student 

Re: [RBW] Philadelphia Bike Expo March 16 - 17

[ascpgh]

All the pictures make me happy for those who attended but sad that work 
prevented me from being there this year. You all got to see and meet some 
real icons in person there.
 
Having the time to browse and speak with folks who seem like they would be 
unapproachable pillars of cycling notoriety but are real, humble and all 
about cycling. I met and talked with so many icons and responsible parties 
to my cycling path and equipment like Paul Price, who's Racer brakes are on 
my RIvendell, or Wayne Bingham who now owns Mel Pinto Imports and 
distributes VAR tools and Cane Creek products. Always love seeing Brian 
Chapman and Johnny Coast sharing a booth. I was so happy that RIv made the 
decision to come across the country and be a part of it. It really fits 
their company. 

I met and talked to Brad Quartuccio, the photographer in bicycling "counter 
culture" in the '90s-'00s we both realized that we share the same favorite 
coffee shop and he lived (then) less than a mile form me. 

The Philly Bike Expo has a vibe that the InterBike trade show where I 
always felt like I was bothering vendors despite running a shop and 
attending for my business needs.  Bridgestone were an exception, I still 
remember Grant offered some jelly beans while others were handing out cold 
micro brews and all sorts of corporate trick or treat valuables (that lowly 
shop employees in attendance hawked up by the backpackful).  There is no 
secret handshake at PBE except liking bikes and riding. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 9:38:05 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:

> Fantastic!! I've been keeping up with the PBE posts on Instagram. The 
> number of vendors and cool products is amazing. I have added this to my 
> bucket list of activities to do. Thanks for sharing the photos and short 
> video of Pam maneuvering the box through the exhibit hall. The RivSisters 
> look happy.
> Doug
>
> On Monday, March 18, 2024 at 8:33:18 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Pam doing Pam Things (video, hope it works):
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Video: Repairing Pam Murray's Silver shifters

[ascpgh]

Thanks for that Eric, I really appreciate when things are opened and 
demystified. Suntour's pawled/friction shifter guts have been diagrammed 
but watching them be opened, disassembled and serviced/reassembled is very 
rewarding. 

Really brings out the non-artist, inquisitive amateur mechanic in me, like 
Daniel Rebour's illustrations do. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, March 6, 2024 at 7:48:05 AM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi everyone — Last fall Pam Murray sent me some Silver shifter levers that 
> were in need of repair. They came off her high-mileage Betty Foy after the 
> springs wore out. 
>
> Thanks to Mike Godwin for sending me a broken pair of the old Suntour 
> Sprint levers, they provided the parts I needed to get Pam's shifters back 
> up and running. 
>
> I made a video about the process, it's up here: 
> https://youtu.be/0g67pjAPYZk
>
> I hope this is helpful to anyone looking to get their worn out or broken 
> Silver v1 or v2 shifters back into shape.
>
> Cheers! 
>

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[RBW] Re: Trip Report: Death Valley February 2024

[ascpgh]

Wow, what a great trip!

When I read ride reports I often drift into amazement at the landscapes so 
foreign (or just alien) to my regular environs. Part of the adventure is 
simply facing the unusual or unknown and turning that first pedal stroke. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 11:19:20 PM UTC-5 diana@gmail.com wrote:

> Map: 
> https://www.gaiagps.com/map/?loc=9.6/-116.8781/36.7032=GJ70zopvv3HDAIv6yQW94aTs=09fa1491-18a7-4735-83a2-eb164d4ba0ba
>
> Total miles: ~165 miles 
> Total Elevation Gain: ~14,400 ft 
>
> *Intro: *
>
> The inspiration for this route came from the Bikepacking.com- Echo-Titus 
> Canyon , but Titus 
> Canyon is currently closed to all traffic (including bicycles), so we were 
> looking for a way to extend our tip another day. We added Rhyolite Canyon 
>  from the Dirty 
> Freehub.
>
>  
>
> *Bicycles*
>
> Diana’s Bike - 2022 Platypus (50 cm, 38x24 crank, 650Bx43mm GravelKing SK 
> Knobby tires, Nitto Choco handlebar, and a 9-speed cassette)
>
> Ran’s Bike – 2023 Kona Sutra (stock parts except the tubeless 2.1 inch 
> tires)
>
> Mikes Bike – 2022 Salsa Cutthroat (stock parts, 2.2 inch tubeless tires)
>
>  
>
> *Day 1. Rhyolite Rumble*
> Total Miles: 46
> Average Speed 8.6mph
>
> We drove from Reno to Spicer Ranch. Spicer Ranch is an amazing campground 
> and the owner runs it entirely on donations. Clean bathrooms, hot showers, 
> picnic tables, what else could you ask for? Please donate if you stay here. 
>
> Our plan today was to ride load-less and ease our way into the trip. We 
> arrived at Spicer Ranch a little after 10am and were biking by 10:45am. The 
> first few miles went by quickly and we passed by several old mines. There 
> is endless gravel to ride out here and you could easily spend the day 
> exploring mine to mine. The road is pretty tough in places, but this is how 
> it will be the entire trip.
>
> The excitement of beginning our adventure (and being unloaded) had us 
> riding fast. We had great views riding toward Grapevine Mountains on 
> amazingly packed gravel. I would get a flat somewhere along here but 
> patched it up and moved on. 
>
> The views would continue but the road would deteriorate into more sand 
> than gravel and had us pushing on a few occasions. Ran took a spill during 
> a moment of lapsed attention when his tire hit the side of a wash. Luckily 
> it was a slow fall and Ran would ride away with minor scratches. Later on 
> in the day we hit some washboards and I was going too fast and I got a 
> pinch flat. Patched that too, but the pinch flat happened right next to the 
> valve and the patch didn’t hold. Replaced the whole tube just before 
> Rhyolite. This whole time we saw nobody else on the trails.
>
> Rhyolite Ghost town is very interesting and they have a lot of eccentric 
> statues/sculptures. Worth a visit here if you find yourself in the area. 
> There were a lot of tourists here and it was little jarring after spending 
> the whole day by ourselves. 
>
> The night caught us and to try to get back to camp quicker, we abstained 
> from the gravel and rode back on highway 95. This was very unpleasant as 
> it’s a 2-lane highway with 70 mph speed limits. Most everybody passed us 
> with as much room as they could spare, and we could always hop onto the 
> gravel sides if we needed. Once back at Spicer Ranch, we set up camp, ate 
> our dinners, and all fell into peaceful sleep.
>
>
> *Day 2: Spicer Ranch à Chloride City à Furnace Creek à Echo Canyon*
>
> Total Mileage: 66 Miles
> Max Speed: 34.5mph
> Average: 8.7mph
>
> This was a physically hard day!  We wanted more gravel riding today, so we 
> decided to take Chloride City Road to meet up with Death Valley Road. The 
> road to Chloride City is all uphill, riding on somewhat loose gravel, and 
> many parts so sandy some pushing was needed again. The scenery did not 
> disappoint though! Mike found a license plate from 1932! We harbored 
> thoughts of going to see Chloride City Ghost Town, but upon seeing that 
> Chloride City was another 2000 feet of elevation gain and having just 
> climbed a very difficult 1500 feet, we opted to skip it.
>
> We thought we were going to be golden once we got to the turnoff to go 
> down, but the decent from Chloride City road is difficult. Thank goodness 
> it was downhill because otherwise we would have had to push our bicycles 
> 50% more. It was extremely sandy and only the cars with the fattest of 
> tires would be safe driving this path.
>
> Once we hit Daylight Pass Road it was jarring to *fly* down pavement to 
> Hells Gate Viewpoint (my max speed was almost 35 mph and I’m sure I pumped 
> the breaks). We snapped a few photos then turned left and went down Beatty 
> Cutoff Road. Again, we would fly down this road (dropping 2500 feet!) 
> hitting Highway 190.
>
> Riding on Highway 190 wasn’t the greatest with 

Re: [RBW] Winter Riding in Alberta

[ascpgh]

Love the compilation of winter rides! The big Ruthworks rando bag on the 
last one too. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 11:02:34 AM UTC-5 penne...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've updated this series with a tale of winter: 
> https://youtu.be/kJDmtL1OyBk?si=4uUgYg0kLhPasb06
> Happy Sunday,
> Mack
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 11:52:03 AM UTC-6 Mack Penner wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Stephen! Glad to hear it :)
>> Mack 
>>
>> On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 8:56:01 PM UTC-6 RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>>
>>> These are so good Mack, missed the first one back in august. Makes me 
>>> want to go ride my bike.
>>>
>>> -stephen
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, October 24, 2023 at 7:15:22 PM UTC-4 RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>>>
 For those inclined to follow along, here's my "tale of fall 
 ," which in southern 
 alberta is now all but over, snow on the ground and still falling, 
 something like -10 degrees Celsius today. If you're hardcore, you might 
 also consider this semi-absurd overnighter 
  I took my poor 
 brother on at the end of September. 
 Mack

 On Sunday, August 27, 2023 at 7:20:18 PM UTC-6 RBW Owners Bunch wrote:

> Great looking rides. Been a while since I explored that part of the 
> world. 
>
> On Tuesday, August 22, 2023 at 6:40:53 PM UTC-4 Andrew Letton wrote:
>
>> Love it!  Especially the butterfly cameo!
>> cheers from Oz,
>> Andrew
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 01:36:32 AM GMT+10, Mack Penner <
>> penne...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>
>>
>> Hi people,
>> I have been on a small eric rohmer kick this year, and when I started 
>> watching the tales of the four seasons it occurred to me that it would 
>> be 
>> fun to document a week of riding in every season. I had the idea in the 
>> summer, so first up is my tale of the summer. Nothin' fancy, I just 
>> perched 
>> my phone on my water bottle like a hundred times during my daily rides 
>> in 
>> the week from 14-18 August. I was gonna put it to music, but then I 
>> thought 
>> that if the goal is to document seasonal riding vibes the sounds that 
>> the 
>> season makes are important! Filmed in southern alberta on my atlantis, 
>> my 
>> joe, my homer, and finally my quickbeam. 
>> Vid's here . Hope you 
>> find it fun!
>> Enjoy the rest of August,
>> Mack 
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Best Rivendell for pavement riding

[ascpgh]

+1.
I've sat quietly on my vote since it's no longer available. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Sunday, March 3, 2024 at 5:49:08 PM UTC-5 cz...@sonic.net wrote:

> Patrick -
>
> You forgot the Ram!
>
> Regards,
>
> Corwni
> On Saturday, March 2, 2024 at 2:23:07 PM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> Roadeo, Roadini, Sam, Homer, and the Nitto Noodle?
>>
>> FWIW, after having used any number of drop bars, my favorite is the Maes 
>> Parallel, available from Rene Herse but not from Rivendell. (Rivendell 
>> ought to offer it!)
>>
>> Patrick Moore, present and former owner of 5 Rivendell drop bar 
>> road/roady-ish bikes
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 2, 2024 at 11:56 AM Chuck Blessing  wrote:
>>
>>> I really like the Rivendell approach to bikes and bike technology with 
>>> the idea of a more upright posture and a long wheelbase for long rides at a 
>>> comfortable pace, but it seems like the models all lean heavily to what 
>>> they call "country bikes."  I like to ride from my house, and that means 
>>> riding almost exclusively on smooth (mostly) pavement. Can anyone suggest 
>>> which models are better suited for road riding? Reading and comparing the 
>>> descriptions, it seems that the Homer might be a good choice, or possibly 
>>> the Appaloosa or Atlantis? Or the new Charlie Gallop, though I haven't 
>>> heard much about how it is supposed to ride? I tried a Roadini (which I 
>>> recently listed here and sold), but I think it was too big for me. I never 
>>> felt comfortable on it. Maybe I just needed it in the right size. 
>>>
>>> I would like the bike to work well with drop bars because of the 
>>> multiple hand positions and they're just what I'm used to. I tried a bike 
>>> with swept bars recently, but found I wasn't comfortable on longer rides. 
>>> And when riding on streets with minimal shoulder width, I felt like I was 
>>> going to catch the end of them on mailboxes or other obstacles. Maybe 
>>> there's a handlebar in Rivendell's catalog that works well for road riding?
>>>
>>> I'd appreciate any comments, especially if someone does this type of 
>>> riding and has tried several of these models. Thanks.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>>
>>> -- 
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Sit Bone Width and Saddles

[ascpgh]

I've found that the dynamic of a saddle is as important as the sit bone 
width consideration and close to both of those is the longitudinal 
dimension of your ideal sit bone stance.

When you sit on the saddle with those two points of your pelvis the force 
applied is way more than your thumbs when you handle the saddle in the LBS. 
I think cheaper padded saddles almost formulate construction anticipating 
the thumb testers. Even a brand new Brooks Professional will deflect under 
body weight applied at those two bony points. 

The dynamic I speak of, for me, has to do with what part(s) of the saddle 
deflect and which stay in shape. I got a new saddle for my custom that 
accommodated my sit bone width and nicely provided a level platform on 
which those bony points of contact rested without an angle promoting a slow 
slide in any direction I would have to actively correct or expend energy to 
resist. I remain seated longer than most before I transition to pedaling 
out of the saddle and being able to move back on the saddle and continue to 
have level platform of support of my sit bones is preferable. As I move 
fore and aft, pedaling while seated my body weight applies to slightly 
different positions and can have an effect on the less mobile portions of 
the cover which hopefully do not create problems. A lot of forecasting if 
veering from a tried and true saddle you've used in the past. Having a 
consistent platform of support for my sit bones through the fore and aft 
positions of my seated pedaling is key. 

The particular dynamic (actually static) feature I found disagreeable with 
my initial saddle choice, a Rivet Diablo, was the line of leather down the 
middle of the saddle from the nose to the cantle at the rear. As I began to 
break in the saddle I was getting a dull ache I hadn't experienced in a 
long time form my longer rides and realized this leather down the middle 
remained drawn tight like a ridge line while the leather under duress of my 
sit bones began to conform to them. The more break in, the higher the 
unsagging ridge was despite loostening the tension adjustment. The leather 
cover of the saddle was under varied foci of force and responded 
predictably.

The answer was a slightly different saddle shape, the RIvet Pearl, and the 
slotted option. Not because I needed the relief of contact at the area of 
the cut out but rather the removal of material in that center strip, fore 
and aft, that didn't have forces like my sit bones deflecting it so 
removing  some material allowing it to sag under the much less (and 
delicate) perineal contact did the trick.

Here's a picture of a Rivet saddle like mine with the cut out and sit bone 
break in that really shows the concept I'm describing: 
https://rivetcycleworks.com. You can also see the generous fore and aft sit 
bone platform too.. 
 
>From the Rivet website:
*Our Return Policy*

*If you buy a saddle from a Local Bike Shop (LBS), then you are bound to 
their return policy. We support our local bike shops and want to support 
their policies.*

*If you buy a saddle directly from us, then… We give you 365 days from date 
of purchase to ride it, tweak it, break it in, love it, or not. You can 
return it or exchange it for different models if it’s not the right fit. We 
want you to get the right saddle. Period.*


*BUT, on the 366th day, you had better have a crazy good reason why you 
didn’t contact us within the year.If you do decide to return your Rivet, we 
will gladly take it back from you, and refund your money, minus the initial 
shipping cost for handling and re-stocking. Fair nuff.*


I met the owner (Head Rivetress) , of Rivet Cycleworks, Deb Banks, at the 
Philadelphia Bike expo and bought from her saddle line after a nice 
conversation. Cocktails and dinner with her, Peter Gilbert of Cane Creek 
and Wayne Bingham of Mel Pinto Imports was the icing. Really nice folks. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh



On Wednesday, February 28, 2024 at 7:45:42 PM UTC-5 Jay wrote:

> I'll preface this by saying I know saddles are highly subjective, and what 
> works for one may not work fo you.  What I wanted to ask about is "general 
> thinking".  Just wanting to confirm some thoughts I've had about this...
>
> My sit bones are 125mm apart.  I've had them measured a few times.  This 
> is when I'm sitting upright.  I believe general rule is the more upright 
> you are on the bike, the wider you go with the saddle (e.g., if I'm 90 
> degrees/straight up, add a few cm; aero, maybe just one cm).  Any other 
> logic to share with respect to sit bones and saddle width?
>
> My saddle is level with tops of my bars (on two of three bikes).  This 
> puts me in a comfortable position, maybe 60 degrees when I'm in the hoods. 
>  All three bikes have drop bars, but only the older road bike has bars 
> below the saddle.  My neck and upper back feel great in this position, and 
> I've previously had issues in this area, so that's a victory.
>
> I'm still 

[RBW] Re: Philadelphia Bike Expo March 16 - 17

[ascpgh]

It's such a great event, I'm sad work got in the way and I cannot attend 
his year. 

Be sure to talk to all the vendors you have patronized in the past or 
quietly objectify. It's a fine collection of people who are about bicycles 
that trade shows of the past weren't. The accessibility and warmth of so 
many of these folks, even big names, will surprise you. 

Take and post lots of pictures!

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Monday, February 26, 2024 at 5:22:03 PM UTC-5 Roberta wrote:

> https://phillybikeexpo.com/
>
> Lots of things to do--the expo, rides, parties, coffee and meet ups.
>
> I'm going.  Who else?  I'm within walking distance to the expo (but will 
> be riding my Betty Foy there, because, well..., I should ride).  If anyone 
> needs any local assistance, please reach out via DM.  
>
> There is free bike valet parking by Neighborhood Bike works, and donations 
> accepted.  It's a great way to fund the community bike center.
>
> I hope to meet or see again lots of us happy Riv riders.
>
> Roberta
>

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[RBW] Re: The Official Introduction of RoadeoRosa

[ascpgh]

What a build Bill. 

I said to Leah when she was considering the plunge for some bespoke bits 
that as you ride more, your experiences forge preferences for particular 
bike pieces and components. Each part that stands above discrete makes the 
bike you build or upgrade embody those stories and are a record of your 
riding like a scrapbook. Those who don't understand won't notice. Those who 
do will appreciate the richness of detail and see quite a story narrated 
here.

I get it!


Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Monday, February 19, 2024 at 11:27:37 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Here she is.  RoadeoRosa is complete
>
>
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/45758191@N04/53540567348/in/album-72177720313109003/
>
> Frame set: Nobilette built Rivendell Roadeo.  Cantilever posts.  Legolas 
> fork crown.  Cane Creek 40 headset
>
> Wheelset:  HED Ardennes RA Black.  Stampede Pass Extralight tires.  TPU 
> tubes.  12-27 Dura Ace 10sp cassette.  Tune skewers
>
> Drivetrain:  Rene Herse Crankset 46/30.  White Industries Ti 108mm bottom 
> bracket.  Look Keo Carbon Ceramic Pedals.  Dura Ace 7900 F Der, R Der, Down 
> tube shifters.  KMC chain
>
> Components:  Rene Herse cantilevers. Jagwire Elite cables and housing. 
>  Soba Noodle bars.  Nobilette stem.  Campagnolo Athena EPS brake levers 
> (electronics removed).  Dura Ace 7900 seat post.  Fizik Arione 00 saddle
>
> Accessories:  Rene Herse Fenders.  Arundel carbon H2O cages.  Rene Herse 
> pump.  Spurcycle Bell.  Rene Herse UD-2 front rack
>
> total weight 20.2lbs.  9.16kg
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: San Francisco Randonneurs 200k ride report

[ascpgh]

I love the objective of "enough".

Enough insight on food to get the good without the bad.
Enough discipline to dose yourself over the whole ride and all of its bits.
Enough effort to conclude the day within the limit.

On long non-event rides I like to add a few others:

Enough time for a few pictures, not everyone will appreciate them but a few 
will.
Enough reserve and insight to look up from the stem because if I can't, the 
latter miles won't be pretty.
Enough trust in others to not have to make every mistake myself with my 
bike and gear. 
Enough adventure, effort and opportunity to be a reward motivating me to do 
it again!

I'm already scanning the calendar for opportunities to ride a two day out 
and back trip, balancing how many layers I'll need for the weather 
contingencies and the range limits it will imply until spring is here. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Wednesday, February 14, 2024 at 9:43:28 AM UTC-5 Bill Schairer wrote:

> Such a refreshing write-up!!  The current obsession with "FKT"s for 
> anything and everything has sort of turned me off.
>
> Bill S
> San Diego
>
> On Tuesday, February 13, 2024 at 10:53:23 AM UTC-8 ttoshi wrote:
>
>> Thanks for all the encouragement!  I am VERY lucky to have a custom Riv 
>> made for randonneuring. 
>>
>> https://rivbike.tumblr.com/post/165236855564/toshis-custom-i-dont-care-who-you-are-or-what
>>
>> My new acquaintance on the AHH took a nice picture and I'm hoping to 
>> share that here. 
>>
>> I agree with Bill regarding elevation.  I think the major difference from 
>> other 200k events is the start in San Rafael instead of San Francisco cuts 
>> off an up and over Camino Alto into Fairfax and the same out on the return 
>> and the "oh so fun" climb out of Sausalito to the Golden Gate Bridge.  It's 
>> always a challenge to end the ride with the hills.
>>
>> Speaking of Sausalito reminds me of one of my favorite randonnees ever, 
>> where I rode with my 5 yr old son on a Populaire 110k on our tandem 
>> (pre-Hubba times) in 2010.  The only way we could make the time cutoff was 
>> to have my Skittle-powered son climbing out of the saddle and up the hill 
>> to the bridge.  He was so inspiring that several other populaire riders got 
>> motivated to finish too!  Now my son's in college and I'm eligible for a 
>> senior discount at IHOP.  Time flies.
>>
>> I found an itty bitty picture from that day:
>>
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>>
>> Toshi
>>
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] ISO: Trail Bike

[ascpgh]

My first thought too. " trail riding and bikepacking with his friends" is 
equal to "a knife for meat". You'll have suggestions ranging from a scalpel 
to a 2# cleaver.

I just read John Watson/Radavist's review of Knolly's new  
Tyaughton, 
 a modern steel 
hardtail trail bike that is admittedly not a beginners' bike but the 
terrain where tested is so well described it's worth reading. It's almost 
like being there. My grandparents retirerd there and I rode South Mountain 
trails long before suspension. Just as I had my insights about geometry and 
suitability of mainstream industry geometry in my Ozark Mountain riding, 
this place made clear that it had special needs too. Needs that handed me 
my backside by the end of the water in my bottles.

The write up did a really good job of describing details of modern trail 
bike design and the situational benefit of them. Lots of specifics to 
absorb and look for on the more mainstream possibilities, either off the 
rack or second hand. 

Your brother's budget is best suited to a ready to pedal bike. Even a free 
frame would a dark hole which that money won't seem to fill, even with 
nominal spec parts. The big brands have such purchasing power by volume, 
it's the best way to start. This review included some well grounded words 
about lower end components as well. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, February 7, 2024 at 9:46:49 AM UTC-5 John wrote:

> Trigger warning: opinions regarding "modern mountain bikes."
>
> For $1400 I'd watch the local Craigslist and Facebook marketplace listings 
> for a used hardtail from 2016ish or later. Something with 69 to 66 (ish) 
> HTA. 29er/700 tubeless ready wheels (27.5/650 is OK too) at least 2.3" 
> wide. 1x drive train (46T or more big cog in the rear, clutched 
> derailleur). Dropper post. Wide (650mm or more) handlebars. Short (<60mm) 
> stem. Disc brakes (these will probably end up being hydraulic because 
> that's become standard, although IMO cable actuated is fine for most 
> people). That would cover riding a lot of mountain bike trails/singletrack 
> in and around AZ as well as bikepacking routes on forest and jeep roads, 
> doubletrack, etc.
>
> Modern mountain bikes are really good. The geo works extremely well with 
> the longer top tubes, shorter stems and wider bars. Big wheels have amazing 
> ability to roll over trail obstacles. With a little technique and proper 
> setup these bikes are incredibly comfortable, safe and capable. These bikes 
> also cost more than fully rigid mountain bikes, ATBs, hillibikes 
> (sometimes), whatever you want to call them. They have suspension forks, 
> dropper posts and possibly hydraulic brakes that need to be serviced and 
> maintained (i.e. complicated)
>
> A Surly Karate Monkey or Krampus both fit the bill and could potentially 
> be had for under $1400. A Sklar or Crust is pretty unlikely. Kona Honzo or 
> a Marin are also good bang for the buck. Here's a list of budget hardtails 
> The 
> Radavist  
> published recently. Any used model would be fine. I wouldn't be too worried 
> about the brand, so long as it's a legitimate bike company and checks the 
> boxes above. A mid tier Shimano or Sram group (or at least 
> shifter/derailleur) wold be ideal. The new Microshift 1x drivetrains are 
> cool too. 
>
> All that said, it may be worth honing in on what your brother means to do 
> with the bike. I hate to say it but "trails and bikepacking" is pretty 
> broad by today's standards, especially in AZ and the Four Corners region. 
> Does he plan on riding rocky, steep, technical trails that require you to 
> lift a front wheel or roll down obstacles? There can be lots of that in AZ. 
> But if he has no intention of ever doing that, a fully rigid bike with 
> biggish tires may fit the bill just fine!
>
> Laying it all on the line,
> John in Minnesota
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] B17 alternatives

[ascpgh]

I was shopping for a longer lasting saddle than post-Selle Italia B-17 
among RIvet models after meeting Deb Banks at the  Philly Bike Expo and 
picked the Diablo on dimensions.

Turns out either my rear end is an odd measuring device or saddles cannot 
be compared effectively by simple linear dimensioning. Turns out to be the 
latter and why Rivet has a 364 day return/exchange policy. I traded for and 
ended up loving the slotted Pearl. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, January 24, 2024 at 12:05:05 AM UTC-5 mike goldman wrote:

> Rivet Pearl saddle is close to a B17
>

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[RBW] Re: Knobby tires and fenders

[ascpgh]

Seems like a similar question to the fenders off road (with smooth tires) 
question and maxims.

I've got no knobby tires as of yet. I've ridden both my Rambouillet and 
Coast rando off road and only find the front mudflap an issue. I use two 
small bulldog binder clips  to affix the flaps (with their handle bales 
removed once mounted) and take them off when surface conditions are such 
that I'm picking things up at a rate higher than a low grade nuisance. I'm 
not riding at speeds high enough to cause any drama worth posting on social 
media. 

If my conditions and riding reach the point of requiring greater traction I 
would be all over the appropriate sized RH knobs for having dimensions that 
match those of the slick (file tread) tires for easy clearance 
consideration instead of beta testing all that myself with others' inputs. 

After Bill's brevet report I'm eagerly anticipating a long ride down the 
GAP which ihas n the past included some snowpack near the divide and plenty 
of recently unfrozen limestone dust trail surface that gets a bit spongy 
and slightly wheel spinny if trying to push yourself. They have a very nice 
uniform low height to width knob profile so they don't wobble under pedal 
or steering input. I learned about that with OG Specialized Hardpack 26" x 
2.2"  riding trails off the Continental Divide in south central Colorado, 
1988. Flexy knobs, taller on the sides, will let you down. Abruptly. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh





On Sunday, January 28, 2024 at 4:36:55 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I am thinking of getting a second wheelset for the 2016 Chauncey Matthews 
> "road bike for dirt" to supplement the very nice, very all-rounder-type 48 
> mm labeled/50 actual Soma Supple Vitesse SL wheelset. The second wheelset 
> would have knobbies for sand, since the Somas just don't have the float and 
> directional stability that I need for our sandy trails.
>
> Riv content: I told Chauncey to measure my 2 (at the time) custom Riv 
> Roads and make the new bike handle as much l like those as possible. (And 
> with the Somas it does, wonderful; the 60 mm Big Ones wallowed and wandered 
> --- not horrible, just not Rivendell-like -- tho' they floated well over 
> sand.)
>
> I am thinking of using RH knobbies -- since the reportedly once 
> superlatively light and fast Thunder Burt has gained oz and stiffness 
> compared to its first edition. *(730 grams for the 700C X 2.35!!* The 
> 2.35 Big Ones are a digitally true 450 grams, and the F Freds that the TBs 
> replaced were a true 360 at a true 50 mm.)
>
> The 55 mm Fleecer Ridges (per specs ELs would probably measure very close 
> to 60 tubeless on my 27 mm IW rims) for max float; but this would mean 
> removing the Kelpie fenders. 
>
> I like fenders. I live in the high desert with an average 9" of rain a 
> year but we have a *lot* of dust and full fenders keep a great deal of it 
> off my legs and off of the bike. Also, the Matthews was one of my 2 "rain 
> bikes" -- puddles and snow melt included.
>
> I used these fenders with 60 mm Big Ones, but those were smooth tread and 
> even so barely cleared under the seatstay bridge; about 5 mm.
>
> Obviously, using ~60 mm knobbies with these fenders would be foolish, and 
> I've been thinking that perhaps the Oracle Ridge might work with them, at 
> barely 50 mm extrapolated from the website; the 50 mm Somas have perhaps 
> just shy of 2 cm of clearance at that tight spot under the seatstay bridge 
> and 3 cm+ under the fork crown. (The Big Ones measured ~29 1/2" tall, the 
> Somas ~28 1/2" tall, so 1/2 inch/~12mm difference.)
>
> So I'm curious if any of youse use fenders with knobbies and:
>
> 1. What is the minimum gap your require?
>
> 2. how big are the knobs? IOW, are small, even knobs as on the RH knobbies 
> safer with fenders than the big fat knobs on real mtb tires?
>
> 3. What do you say in particular to ~50 mm Oracle Ridges under full 
> fenders with the clearances described?
>
> I cannot use the aftermarket stay breakaway systems because the Kelpie 
> stays are 50% fatter than the stays they were designed for.
>
> 4. If I don't use full fenders I will certainly install "motocross-style" 
> fenders, but those I've seen are fugly. 
>
> 4.a) Are there non-fugly clip ons? 
>
> 4.b)Share photos?
>
> 4.c) Source/link?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: RAGBRAI?

[ascpgh]

My old housemate Steve, the younger of two brothers there, got into modern 
cycling with a bike I built him on a Bridgestone MB-3 frame. He's taken 
that way farther on and is a bike commuter to an office and customer 
setting (supporting the business through Sam's Club and Wal*Mart) requiring 
actual dress clothes, suit and tie.  His ever-expanding interest in 
bicycling has taken him from Fayetteville, AR to his family cabin at Spar 
City, CO outside Creede, CO for his 50th birthday. He is a repeat RAGBRAI 
participant and takes a number of his colleagues from his office and other 
locations of his company, including some from overseas.

His challenges to keep up the commuting includes leaving his company car at 
the office for off site meetings in the day and the once a week exchange by 
the cleaners at the office so he's not lugging that attire back and forth 
in a bag. His first RAGBRAI introduced him to the logistical challenges and 
the stress on each town that all of those riders and their needs put on 
them. Katrina happened and with FEMA foibles and subsequent actions of the 
military and various non-profits to render aid. I told him about some of 
the stuff I used in the military when I ran light maintenance companies 
that often co-located with other logistic elements in the field that 
allowed crew of equipment needing repairs to walk to a shower tent, at the 
anteroom hand over their dirty clothes, showering and receive their clothes 
clean and dry when clean and toweled off. The kitchen trailers served hot 
food and if repairs took longer we had tents with cots for some rest before 
heading back with their repaired items.

These ideas stuck with Steve and his company (P & G) who had long since 
been branding his annual group (a recognition to be included) with matching 
kit bedazzled with unmistakable company logo as useful advertising and then 
they rolled out the laundry trailer, a self-contained washer/dryer facility 
available to RAGRAI riders each night, following the horde (and their also 
branded Tide bus where they sleep and the chef feeds them). 

Do the ride and you'll see the trailer, their the bus as well as the team 
TIde.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 4:52:06 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Welp, I was so much more excited about this in theory. After reading about 
> the various experiences of damaged luggage, sweltering temps and difficult 
> logistics, I think I’ll find a different ride to do. 
>
> Thanks to everyone who offered their experiences! It was a great thread to 
> read in the dead of a Michigan winter.
> Leah
>
> On Jan 21, 2024, at 12:03 PM, Matt Beecher  wrote:
>
> If I were to do it again, I would pay for one of the services where they 
> haul your stuff and set up your tent.  Getting a hotel will likely be 
> nearly impossible, given the number of people attending.  
>
>
> I did RAGBRAI a few years ago and tried bringing my own tent and setting 
> it up at night.  The kids they use to haul luggage from site to site 
> quickly destroyed my bag.  Basically, they pile them in the truck and if I 
> had to guess, they saw my handles and yanked on it to pull it free, but 
> tore the brand new heavy canvas bag instead.  I tried holding it together 
> with a cable lock and tape, but had to give up on that after a few days.  A 
> lot of items I didn't need were tossed, then the rest went into my panniers 
> and I had to haul it myself.  Overall, I was a bit disappointed with the 
> luggage service side of the trip.  
>
> However, the ride itself was great, especially eating dinner with 
> strangers every evening.  
>
> One thing I was happy that I brought was my ultralight cot.  It got me off 
> of the ground, which kept me dry on rainy evenings and cooler on hot days.  
>
> The next trick is to find a way to charge your phone.  I'd make sure you 
> have a power bank available.  
>
> Good luck,
> Matt
>
> On Monday, January 15, 2024 at 5:33:07 PM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> Who knows about Bike Film Festival? 
>>
>> I paid for the pass to watch this year’s videos and it was money 
>> well-spent. I got to the RAGBRAI documentary last night. Wow. I had heard 
>> of it but really knew nothing about it and now I would just love to figure 
>> out how to ride it this year. It just looks like such an experience. And 
>> I’ve had very few experiences, because I’m late to the bike adventure scene 
>> AND I’ve been raising kids! But now they are teenagers and might not even 
>> know that I’m gone so maybe I should ride this epic ride!
>>
>> There are a ton of logistics I don’t understand. I think you need a 
>> “charter” to haul your stuff, yes? And to bring you back across the state 
>> after you finish? And if you use these “charters” do they trash your bike 
>> in their racks or will they have something that can handle a a mixte with 
>> fenders? Is there are charter that is more friendly to Riv bikes than the 
>> 

[RBW] Re: New Jewelry for my Platypus

[ascpgh]

I had the pleasure to meet and converse with Paul at the Philly Bike Expo. 
His approachability, perspective and overall friendliness adds to the MUSA 
points and makes me a fan of his parts any time I can use them. I think I'm 
dearly holding on to my orange Rambouillet because of the center bolt Racer 
brakes I added years ago to make room for more fender and tire.

Name that bike "Varod". 

Andy Cheatham 
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, January 11, 2024 at 8:28:30 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I have never had Paul anything. I’ve had whatever brakes and levers came 
> with my bikes and didn’t think any more about it. I did get my VO brake 
> levers anodized, but that batch of rose pink ano faded freakishly fast and 
> everything was silver 4 months later. 
>
> But I’m giving it another chance. Everyone talks about Paul, and Paul 
> sometimes offers their parts in pretty, anodized colors, but currently, 
> they do not. I emailed the company, asking if they happened to have any of 
> their pink levers laying around that they would be willing to sell me. I 
> got an email back from Paul, like THE Paul, who directed me to an employee 
> I won’t name here. He and I got in contact and he was so fun, right from 
> the start. We chatted and he looked at my bikes (I sent him my pics via 
> email) and we made a plan. 
>
> We colored it all. 
>
> The bolts, the brake body, the levers, the barrel adjustors ALL of it. 
>
> The parts came in 3 boxes, plus one extra little envelope. The envelope 
> had a small personalized gift from my new friend at Paul, just because, 
> with a handwritten note in the prettiest handwriting I’ve ever seen. Swoon! 
> I opened the first box and it was wrapped like origami inside. I uncovered 
> the first gorgeous pieces and the breath left my body. So beautiful. 
> Quality even a novice can’t miss. Just what I wanted. Rich, rose color. 
>
> I would need to be with bike people to get the full joy out of this 
> experience. My bike shop knows about Paul Components. A blizzard is on its 
> way to Michigan and I knew my shop would not be busy. I put the pieces back 
> in the box, loaded the boxes and my bike in the van and drove to the shop. 
> I came in and there were 4 mechanics and zero customers. “Guys!” I said, “I 
> have a fun project for us to do, and I can’t do it without you! Who wants 
> to see what is in these boxes?” 
>
> So there we were on company time, hovering over these immaculate little 
> parcels, oohing and aahhing. There was extra swag in there, stuff I had 
> never seen. 
>
> “What’s this?” I asked, holding up a flat, wooden thing with Paul emblems. 
>
> “It’s a carpenter’s pencil,” said the mechanic. I gave it to him.
>
> I left the bike with them and I should have it in the next couple/few 
> days, depending on how long the blizzard rages for. Not that I’ll get to 
> ride and try those beautiful Paul parts out; we are getting up to a foot of 
> snow! For now they are only a visual treat. I can’t even imagine how 
> enamored I will be when I get to actually USE the brakes. 
>
> And what nice people. I was not expecting them to be so personable! I have 
> heard they are a small operation, but they *are* famous in their own 
> right - celebrity machinists, really - yet so kind to a layperson like me.
>
> Here’s the photo I got before the parts shipped. “Whatcha think?” he 
> asked. 
>
> Oh, he knew. He knew he knocked it straight outta the park.
>
> Leah
>
>  
>

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[RBW] Re: Maiden voyage with my new Homer

[ascpgh]

Very cool Don. Details can beget more details if you keep diving into them. 
Sometimes you do just have to surface, take another breath. and pick 
something that's available so you can go for a ride. Your options and 
picture reinforces that!

I won't be the first to say that there are three types of riders out there: 
A.) knows what they want, builds it and rides it (most likely to buy 
another bike as types of riding expand). 
B.) Sort of the same as A. but rides almost to find things that could be 
changed and endlessly seeks those options in their odyssey for the special 
sauce for that bike.  
C.) The rider who knows what they want, makes some changes that riding 
makes obvious, eventually settling in on the recipe that works and sticks 
with it until the consumables are no longer available to sustain, .  

I'm a C.) rider. Self-realization is important or you potentially become an 
eBay store of wrong decisions.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 2:11:54 PM UTC-5 Donzaemon wrote:

> Hi folks, I've spent the past few months lurking and soaking up knowledge 
> in hopes of informing the direction of my Homer build. I sort of agonized 
> over so many details that it was tough landing on my desired gearing, 
> wheels, bar tape, etc. One can spend an eternity and never get anywhere so 
> I finalized on the last few undecided items and had the fine folks at Riv 
> HQ begin their work. This past Saturday, I finally brought it home. 
>
> Pictured below is a stop I made on my ride on the Paradise Loop in Marin 
> County. Beautiful views of the Bay all throughout this route. Looking 
> forward to lots more miles in 2024!
>
> [image: IMG_9002.jpeg]
> -don
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Wheel Flop

[ascpgh]

I'll add that trail, the contributing dimension, can allow induced flop 
from surfaces you ride on. 

When there is a greater distance between the tire contact patch and the 
projected pivot point of the steerer tube a greater lever arm is provided 
to the input of the riding surface. On flat smooth surfaces going in a 
straight line that difference stabilizes the front wheel. When a lateral 
force, the weight of a front bag or other input occurs, the trail dimension 
defines the length of the lever arm provided to that input that can produce 
flop. 

Riding very slowly can cause this, as Jim B. described. Steve P. has 
described riding his Rambouillet on a slow uphill climb that produced 
flop-induced steering that had him zig-zagging enough to stop and dismount. 
I had a bump from a dismounted cyclist that induced a sharp front wheel 
pivot on my Rambouillet. 

When designing a custom frame and fork I considered my interest in riding 
multiple surfaces and multi day trips I wanted to increase my tire volume 
for comfort and control, reduce my front/rear wheel load difference and 
maintain the capacity of  my Rambouillet and the Carradice Nelson Longflap 
saddle bag. I went to 650B to reduce toe overlap of my under square (ST>TT) 
geometry with larger volume tires. I went to lower trail to accommodate 
front loading to better balance the load of the wheels (no more higher PSI 
in the rear wheel). 

The unexpected handling outcome I ended up experiencing was a reduction of 
road or trail surface influence of the direction of the front wheel. No 
more jerks or yanks of the bars in my hands. As many have said of lower 
trail geometry, I don't have the ease of riding without hands that the 
higher trail of my Ram or Disc Trucker commuter allow. Even with that said, 
I found myself less worn out after long rides with a front load on low 
trail than I did on high trail with a rear load. This comparison includes 
differing wheel sizes and tire widths that may have a large effect too. I 
go back and forth between these bikes without any issues.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 5:23:36 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> This, plus the RH page, explains flop well. One way I notice it is, how 
> inclined is the front wheel on a bike to turn to one side or the other when 
> you are standing next to it and holding it up by the saddle? Jim G's trail 
> calculator page includes a calculation for flop: 
> http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/trailcalc.php
>
> I agree that you can't decide whether a bike is "good" or "bad" based on 
> trail figures and flop numbers alone, and I agree too that one can get used 
> to a certain amount of variation here as with so many other variables, but 
> different preferences do fit different trail and flop numbers. I tend to 
> like medium flop; low trail bikes feel vague to me, one big reason I sold 
> the Herse, but I find the tendency of the front wheel with too high a trail 
> to wander when climbing slowly with a lot of weight on the back of the bike 
> annoying and even a bit frightening. One reason I sold my first generation 
> Sam Hill was that it did this; OTOH, none of my customs or the Ram felt 
> like this, or felt like this to the point where it was annoying.
>
> On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 2:45 PM Mackenzy Albright  
> wrote:
>
>> ... This has all lead me to think to focus on trail and flop is a bit 
>> overblown within reason. We all have personal preferences but it feels like 
>> a marketing ploy these days. Trail and flop is really specific and niche 
>> aspect of the bike that really should be determined by a good builder or 
>> designer (Riv etc) based on wheelsize, tire size, ride quality, utility, 
>> and preference. Obviously Rivendell does this with their bikes - i've seen 
>> attempts to "low trail" a hunq or atlantis - but the reality is these bikes 
>> are really well designed and functional as is. With my current custom being 
>> built by a montreal builder - I was very insistent on low trail like my 
>> Romanceur. However after several consultations he suggested going slightly 
>> more mid trail as it would fit the build and purpose of the bike better. I 
>> trust the builder to understand the geometry. 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: New Bike Day—Retirement Bike

[ascpgh]

Fantastic Roberta!

A bike is the sum of its parts. More accurately, a sum of the stories of 
all the parts that they represent to you. It validates all of your past 
riding by developing preferences and aesthetics of parts you may not have 
been keenly aware of before 2017. Most production (boxed) bikes are 
specified for price point by choosing lower level parts for the bits most 
riders aren't familiar with or don't notice. Building a bike like yours is 
deeply rewarding and culminates all of your efforts, experiences and gained 
knowledge.

It's not a "retirement bike", it's a bike to provide for your "not working 
8 hours of each day anymore bike". In that role your Betty Foy appears 
ready for all uses, your pictures even show a wet ground, validating 
fenders and flaps before you've even posted an initial ride report.

Makes me think of the Dr. Seuss classic, Oh, the Places You'll Go.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Monday, December 25, 2023 at 8:40:01 PM UTC-5 Roberta wrote:

> What’s old is new:  circa 2010 Betty Foy!
>
> Let me explain why this and not a custom I was hoping for.
>
> For the past nearly three years, I’ve been “next up” on Rivendell’s list 
> for a custom retirement bike, something I’ve wanted since I found Rivendell 
> in 2017.  I wanted something 1) like my 55cm Platypus, but shorter (I 
> didn’t say short, just short-*er*) specifically so I could take it on the 
> city bus bike rack and Amtrak, that 2) fits and rides like my 2019 54.5 
> Homer.
>
> During one of our many conversations, the ever so patient Vince suggested 
> a Betty Foy.  When I saw one posted on RBW’s Craigslist thread, I drove 
> to Brooklyn, test rode and brought it home, and thanked the RBW poster.  I 
> think this bike is from the first batch of Betty’s because only one heart 
> lug was (notice the past tense) filled in and the seat tube is 58cm.  The 
> color is not robin’s egg blue, but more of a sage/teal, which I like more.
>
> It’s about as close to a custom as I think Grant would have built for 
> me—650b wheels, just under the Amtrak length limit by ½”, fits on our city 
> bus bike racks, rides great and no toe overlap.  Perhaps not a cushy as 
> my Platypus with its extra-long wheelbase, but if I’m on my Betty, I have 
> more options for mass transportation.  The only thing I wish it had was 
> an additional water bottle mount, but I remedied that with a water bottle 
> bag on the handlebar, big enough to hold a 40 oz Kleen Kanteen.
>
> 1X9 Drive train (38T Wolf Tooth in front with Microshift Aventex in back), 
> Albatross handlebar, brakes (Tektro R553)  and Gravel King Slick tires 
> are as I purchased the bike.
>
> I added “extras”—SKS fenders with custom mud flaps (made by a little girl 
> whose Dad is on the iBob board 
> https://groups.google.com/g/internet-bob/c/M_iDE82EhkI/m/FZG8bZzMAQAJ ), 
> red Ergon grips and Newbaum’s tape for pop of color, German mirrors, 
> Greenfield kickstand, 32 spoke Velocity A23 rims with tubeless setup, and 
> Dyno lighting SP hub with Edulux light on front and B Topline Plus light 
> in the back.  Bitex hub in the rear. Axiom rack.  Brooks B68 saddle in 
> honey, but I might try the newly re-issued B72 albeit in brown.
>
> Keystone Bike https://keystone.bike/ did amazing work with the extras, 
> and featured the bike on their IG page a few weeks ago. 
> https://www.instagram.com/p/C0WqS6_OzqA/?img_index=1 .   If you’re ever 
> in Philadelphia, I highly recommend a stop at their shop.  They 
> understand Rivendells (and even own a few).
>
> I did do one way-over-the-top (for me, at least) item—I had all the hearts 
> paint matched and filled by a meticulous and true professional—Lek, 
> https://www.instagram.com/lekerleks/ , who also builds Albacore 
> handlebars available at https://hopecyclery.com/ .  My favorite heart is 
> the one on the back side of the seat tube—an “Easter egg” that I see every 
> time I use my basket, which is every ride.  I asked him to fill in the 
> hearts and he returned the bike saying “I just did every open lug window I 
> saw—hearts, circles and dots.”  WOW!
>

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[RBW] Re: "Grant hates toe clips."

[ascpgh]

My modern cycling (80s onward) has been all with clips and straps then 
clipless (SPD). 

Weeks after buying my first MTB I coincidentally trashed my right knee (not 
bike related injury) and it sat unused for almost nine months. When I began 
riding again it was on a Minoura track stand and required clips and straps 
to keep my errant right foot on the pedal since it tended to float off the 
pedal.  In an ill-advised move, I chose to get off the stand and go 
outside. First on my parent's half mile dead end road, then farther. My 
right foot continued to require clips and straps as I regained both leg 
strength and proprioception. I had to become a left foot stop/prop rider 
after years of doing that with my right foot. As my strength recovered, I 
 even used Keirin double strap clips before venturing into clipless.  

I got my cycling mojo back and then some. I rode off road  strapped in 
tightly and had a cat like left hand swat to loosen the buckle of my on/off 
foot strap. I became discriminating about shoes as the tightened buckles 
would wear into the uppers quickly. When adopting SPDs I learned how 
important the show pedal interface was and how critical fit was.

I've been SPD since their distribution began, best for me with Sidi 
Dominators. My love of fine clip and strap pedals waned despite my history 
and return to cycling because of them. My last pair were an XC Comp-bodied, 
Superbe Pro track-caged set that came on my MB-0, traded to (and perhaps 
the ones mentioned by) Patrick. 

The shoes matter much, they dictate the alignment to the pedals when 
clipped in so if your foot isn't in them well, the pedals won't . I 
strongly agree with the BQ "Icons" selection of the Sidi Dominators. They 
fit me, my foot is in the right place on my SPDs with the right amount of 
movement for all of my riding. It's just how I roll. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 8:44:43 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> First entry in new Blahg. And no, he doesn't; he reports someone's 
> out-of-context judgment.
>
> But I'm curious how many on this RBW list like and use retention and how 
> many don't; and of the former, how many use toe clips and how many use 
> clipless systems -- and what kind.
>
> I'll start: I rode fast for years and thousands of miles in Keds with 
> thick, soft soles and then rubber-soled lace ups of other sorts on 
> un-clipped rat-trap pedals (and even rubber block pedals) until in about 
> 1990 I got my first relatively expensive road bike (1989 Falcon, tout 531C 
> with Sante group) and decided largely because of bike mag content that I'd 
> better get with the retention program. I started with Bata Bikers and clips 
> and straps, graduated to clips and straps and slotted cleats, then pretty 
> quickly switched to the burgeoning varieties of clipless -- Sampson 
> Stratics, Grafton "Erector Set" road and mtb pedals, Speedplay X1s and 
> Frogs, Looks of various sorts, and finally SPDs, road and mtb (by "road" I 
> mean the ones that came out for about 1 season long long ago with the mtb 
> mechanism). 
>
> A couple of years ago I tried platforms with spikes and no-retention shoes 
> but after about a month of annoyance always shifting my foot to find the 
> right position I gave up and went back to SPDs. I've got SPDs on all my 
> bikes though I've got a very nice set of XC Pros + clips and straps + 
> almost-as-new wood-soled Duegis with cleats that I'd like to try -- I found 
> slotted cleats with semi-tight straps easier with a fixed drivetrain than 
> Look Keos -- except that SPDs are so perfect.
>
> So, I've round that having gotten used to retention I find it very hard to 
> give it up. I daresay that this habituation is stronger since so much of my 
> riding is on fixed drivetrains, but I'd still want at least clips and 
> loose-ish straps with rubber soles for any freewheel drivetrain.
>
> But again, SPDs just feel so perfect that I will probably just stay with 
> them.
>
> Best wishes to all for the Christmas season.
>
> Patrick Moore, finishing up a late resume on Xmas eve in ABQ, NM.
>
> -- 
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>

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[RBW] Re: 90-year-old cyclist: remarkable video

[ascpgh]

That was wonderful.

If  you move the cursor to the progress bar below the video but not stop, 
rewind or advance the frame , becomes a profile such as a ride route. Very 
subtle!

That imagery of progress in a person's biography projected as the profile 
of a route is extremely communicative, I got it immediately

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Thursday, December 21, 2023 at 4:03:25 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> For those of you who don't read BSNYC: https://youtu.be/tgUC0zyu4p0
>
> 90 "at the end of the year" and he still does 400-600 km per month.
>
> Remarkable! Vigorous in mind and soul as well as in body. I suppose that 
> his history counts for a lot in this: born into poverty in 1933, working 
> from age 16 or so, growing up and living his professional life during "les 
> trentes glorieuses" in what seems to be a non-mega-urban setting close to 
> the countryside and with lovely cycling routes, close lifelong family ties.
>
> At about 10:05: "at 75 I could still climb the Tourmalet and the Galabier 
> ..."
>
> *And* he does this without electric assist, *and* gets by with 
> (apparently) Campy single pivots despite thoughts about falling at his 
> advanced age.
>
> Wonderful video. Cross posting because it might well interest those who 
> don't belong to both lists.
>
> "My youth is renewed like the eagle's."
>
> -- 
>
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: PSA: Classic TA Zephyr Triple Touring Crankset 172.5 - eBay auction

[ascpgh]

+1 on the chainrings John. Spoiled for life. Haven't bought another brand 
after having the Zephyr on my Rambouillet until I got an RH crankset for my 
Coast build. 

Andy Cheatham 
Pittsburgh

On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 11:51:00 AM UTC-5 John Dewey wrote:

> Another good looking setup (IMHO) with nice range for the tall mountains 
> and not-so-young legs. 
>
> Zephyr rings such guilty pleasure. 
>
> Jock
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 8, 2023 at 8:19 AM Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA <
> martin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm running a double ring-only version of the Zephyr with a TA AXIX 
>> bottom bracket on my Clem. 110 single inner ring with an all-city ring 
>> guard outside. I have the triple version for some future build TBD.
>>
>> Marty
>>
>> [image: Screen Shot 2023-12-08 at 11.12.15 AM.png]
>>
>> On Friday, December 8, 2023 at 10:24:51 AM UTC-5 Huston wrote:
>>
>>> The TA Zephyr is beautiful crank, although some might gripe about the 
>>> hidden fifth bolt.  The 56mm BCD drillings will allow you to run a 20 or 22 
>>> tooth inner ring.  TA, Sugino, Suntour, and a few others made those tiny 
>>> rings.  If you find a Zephyr, make sure to get the correct bottom bracket: 
>>> the Zephyr was produced in different flavors.  Peter White Cycles will sell 
>>> you the correct bottom bracket.
>>>
>>> Huston
>>> Lexington, KY
>>>
>>> On Thursday, December 7, 2023 at 9:34:51 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Here is currently an eBay auction for fine and rare triple crankset:


 https://www.ebay.com/itm/126181646585?hash=item1d610320f9:g:6vcAAOSwGTBlT-uC=enc%3AAQAI8KzA33vnBXsDG%2F1RiID%2BMqbW42cokDpl8JpwC1jxJEzfBhclfArnXKM3RPrHYQJUuFgXooLS8Q5r8dDNoj5Vv%2Fw5f9lCAli%2FAbO5GBMTbCq13Q10Sl%2FAkagOJPL3PTjouSs5sCvDEe%2BKU5X16w4BF3Er91BCDiFgYBtm4CHwkLpaSfkzF%2FqbxiZ3L9sd2eMl52vEPDLOdqV61CXGEaxhu9FpUgSdgmzcWA%2Fm4R9X1EmYIDD08HLVm3fU2Md6qWnvE8pFyKZfF4mWM05fI0fUhsxkKT9xacLNLZUNKN80KYJ42GvPj2h3660xLnAa1MEoBA%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR6zZpPSIYw

 I have no interest.

 Kim Hetzel happy with my crankset and gearing. 2x9.

>>> -- 
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Studs for Winter Riding?

[ascpgh]

I've used studded tires for my winter commuting for a while. They are 
definitely slower than your regular tires but when they are necessary speed 
matters less. As others have pointed out, winter weather and precipitation 
are like craft cocktails, there's endless variety and combinations to which 
no tire (or bike) will be the best answer. 

I have sets of both Schwalbe Marathon Winter Plus 700c x 40mm and Nokian 
Hakkepelitas, 700 x 35 for my commuter which is the given, I'm not building 
a winter commuter.  Both roll slowly on pavement but the Nokians more so 
because of rubber compounding (they smell) and more aggressive tread for 
churning through deeper snow or slush. The Schwalbes are a much more 
refined tire that would be satisfactory if left installed over a few weeks 
of on and off conditions of need since they are less of a pig when the 
pavement clears. The Nokians are definitely a more primitive product for 
better use in more specifically primitive conditions. 

Both are studded equally from the perspective of gained control over slick 
surfaces. Stud counts are not an equal comparison. Someone pointed out 
studs near the sidewalls...probably for marketing and retail point of sale 
impact. Studs work best when in near vertical line with your riding 
alignment to gravity on a surface that they can make a scratch or press 
into. You're not going to gain lean angles on your bicycle because of 
studs. Like Josiah pointed out, even going in a straight line (on studs) it 
is possible to lose bite and have a wheel slip out from under you. 

The best choice in wintery conditions is still your head and riding skill. 
Studded tires won't make 8" of fresh snow bow to your ability, nor will 
packed frozen or icy surfaces be crossed like you are on a cog railway . 
Every pedal stroke in declining conditions becomes what could upend you so 
your proprioception becomes more relevant to keeping moving. Winter riding 
reminds me that the worst part of any speed of bike wreck is the distance 
your head travels before meeting the ground. The fun of it is the mastery 
of the tools you have and to be able to ride in conditions and places that 
make others abandon the idea instantly. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Sunday, December 3, 2023 at 8:34:32 PM UTC-5 John Rinker wrote:

> Went for a ride in snow today and had a blast! I also slipped around a 
> little bit as I tried to follow the packed snow of tire tracks. Got me 
> thinking about studded tires. I've never ridden them before and know 
> nothing about them. 
>
> Do any of you fine folks with more experience in such matters than me have 
> any recommendations for studded tires for my Hunq?
>
> Cheers, John
>

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[RBW] Re: Silver2 cranks!

[ascpgh]

Johnny wrote:* "I agree with Rivendell and Joe...the hidden arm is the 
worst." *

Unless you sell the higher margin crank hardware tools as a specific 
pursuit. 

While in possession of hidden arm hardware cranks I think I bought a new 
tool every three months believing the next had to be better than the 
previous. Profits from all those tools may have exceeded that of the cranks 
themselves. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 9:47:17 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:

> I agree with Rivendell and Joe...the hidden arm is the worst.
>
> On Wednesday, November 29, 2023 at 2:27:41 AM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>>  "Probably too much of a pain to deal with."
>>
>> Precisely. It's not in the product descriptions anymore but at the 
>> introduction of Silvers much was made of how fiddly that hidden chainring 
>> bolt is when installing/swapping rings on the Sugino cranks Riv sold. As a 
>> many-years owner of many 'hidden arm' Suginos, I can attest they are a pain 
>> in the patooty. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 28, 2023 at 8:57:20 PM UTC-8 R. Alexis wrote:
>>
>>> Was walking past one of my bikes the other day and thought the Sugino AT 
>>> cranks and the Specialized Flag cranks bare some resemblance to the 
>>> upcoming Silver 2 cranks. On another note, I was surprised that Rivendell 
>>> didn't go with a hidden arm crank ala Ritchey. Probably too much of a pain 
>>> to deal with. 
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Reginald Alexis  
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:30:58 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
 I stumbled upon the News Blog on rivbike.com and was glancing at 
 Roman's Legolas.  He and I ordered ours in the same size at the same time, 
 so I always regard his as the twin sibling to mine. 

 Anyway, there's a sneak peek of a lighter, road-ish, Silver2 crankset. 
  Looks pretty cool!

 https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news/romans-57cm-legolas-865cm-pbh

 Bill Lindsay
 El Cerrito, CA

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Ride Report - First Century on my Atlantis - and at all

[ascpgh]

We did it in 2012 at Cumberland, MD and rode the GAP over two days. Toured 
Falling Water and the majority opted to shuttle back to the start to get 
ahead of 
a big April Nor'easter threatening their timely return home.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/P47mQDqrze1dN5pc8

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 7:27:12 PM UTC-5 Rusty Click wrote:

> I would be up for that.  Sort of a  “ Riv Ride East” !!
>
> Rusty 
> Pgh, PA
>
> On Nov 19, 2023, at 7:13 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>
> This all has me dreaming up a Riv owners overnighter or multi-day 
> excursion along the C / W Would enough folks be interested in 
> something like that? It’s a 7 hr drive for me to DC Metro area but I 
> already make the trip once a year, so I have no problem doing it for a bike 
> meetup!
>
> On Nov 19, 2023, at 5:04 PM, Eric Marth  wrote:
>
> Looks fab, Nick. I've ridden just a little bit of the W out of 
> Arlington to Mt. Vernon. I'm down the highway a piece in Fredericksburg. 
>
> On Sunday, November 19, 2023 at 7:40:52 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote:
>
>>
>> Nice day for a long bike ride Nick !  The fall lighting makes for lovely 
>> photos indeed. 
>> On Saturday, November 18, 2023 at 7:25:47 PM UTC-5 Josh C wrote:
>>
>>> Nick, 
>>>
>>> Very fun! Nice write-up. Great look'n bike too. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 18, 2023 at 4:13:04 PM UTC-5 thetaper...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Thanks again to you all for your kind responses!  

 Bill -- that snapper's claw wasthe size of a kid's hand. It was 
 probably about 20-22" long, and clearly the resident royalty for that 
 section of the canal.

 Brians -- link to the route below. We took the W and cut north from 
 Leesburg on back roads to the Point of Rocks Bridge, which is very 
 traffic-laden and sketchy. There's one walkway on the northbound side 
 about 
 30" wide and elevated 10" from the road. In hindsight, I should have 
 walked 
 it!

  https://strava.app.link/rGHbmmzVPEb — Point of Rocks Loop Century

 Nick in FC

 On Saturday, November 18, 2023 at 1:13:44 PM UTC-5 brok...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Yes, Nick… I would also be very interested in seeing your route. I’ve 
> done the C several times, but had no idea there was a parallel rail 
> trail 
> across the Potomac starting at Point of Rocks, I assume? That seems like 
> it 
> would make a nice overnighter without having to retrace your route or get 
> a 
> shuttle.
>
> I spent a very harrowing night bike camping at one of those sites near 
> Point of Rocks (Calico Rock, maybe?)… probably the worst storm I’ve ever 
> been caught out in!
>
> Brian
> Lexington Ky
>
> On Nov 18, 2023, at 11:16 AM, Brian McDermott  
> wrote:
>
> Nick- What a classic NOVA ride! I grew up in Leesburg and have ridden 
> countless miles on the W ranging from skating to school on it when I 
> was 
> a freshman at Loudoun County High School, up until a few years ago when 
> my 
> folks still lived in the area. I'd be interested in seeing your route and 
> trying it sometime; I rode the GAP/C last year from Pitt to DC on my 
> Hillborne, tried it again this fall on my Appaloosa, but my knee gave out 
> on me by the time we reached Cumberland and I had to bail. This looks 
> like 
> it would be fun to try in the spring. 
>
>
>
> On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 6:46:39 PM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
>> I want to know more about that turtle-shaped moss-covered rock!  That 
>> guy is a bad ass.  
>> Excellent work 
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Thursday, November 16, 2023 at 12:32:14 PM UTC-8 
>> thetaper...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> A good friend and I managed around 105 miles last weekend. It was 
>>> our (the Atlantis and my) first century.
>>>
>>> We made a long loop here in the D.C. area. 
>>>
>>> First out to Leesburg on the W trail. It took a while for the sun 
>>> to peek out from behind the autumn clouds, but when it did, all the 
>>> frost 
>>> started sublimating, making it look as though we were riding through 
>>> clouds:
>>>
>>> [image: 2023_091735.jpeg]
>>> [image: 2023_093939.jpeg]
>>> [image: 2023_095837.jpeg]
>>>
>>>
>>> Then wound our way northward to the Point Of Rocks bridge via rural 
>>> roads in Loudoun County, both paved and gravel of various types:
>>>
>>> [image: 2023_115654.jpeg]
>>> [image: 2023_115813.jpeg]
>>>
>>> And headed back to Georgetown on the C Canal towpath. Then on home 
>>> after dark via the Mount Vernon trail and southern end of the W
>>>
>>> [image: 2023_140349.jpeg]
>>>
>>> We happened upon a giant old snapper sunning next to the towpath 
>>> that had an ecosystem living on its back:

[RBW] Re: Anna Purple

[ascpgh]

I'm OK with purple, I had a '93 XO-2 in a dark metallic purple. Grant had a 
bit in the '91 catalog about colors (a Note About Color) 
 
from 
a time when anything NOT a dayglo color was a negative point against a bike 
model. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Friday, November 17, 2023 at 9:34:41 AM UTC-5 Tim Bantham wrote:

> Curious what folks think of the Riv frames in purple. I personally am on 
> the fence. I keep looking at it and can't decide if I would like it or not. 
> I would be perfectly fine with any of the other Riv colors but the purple 
> is a bit polarizing to me. Of course I am betting it looks great in person. 
> Thoughts? 
>

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[RBW] Re: YAHT (Yet Another Handlebar Thread) :D

[ascpgh]

Most drops now anticipate brake/shift levers with a longer dimension from 
the bar clamp to the lever pivot. That extension of the lever body 
triggered a slew of shorter reach bends that cheat those of us who love 
generous ramps ahead of the hoods. Talk about complicating the field for 
your choice.  

When STI arrived there was a bit of struggle for those who loved riding the 
hoods/ramps but could feel how expended they were from previous brake hood 
positioning. Shorter stems were a quick dimensional solution but closed the 
distance to the tops, depth of hooks and knee clearance if sticking with a 
favorite bar with the new brake/shifters. I was and am still a bar-end 
shifter across my fleet and like the range of handholds for the spectrum of 
positions from which I address the effort input of riding. Some of the 
brifter-tailored, widely flared and shallow drop bars significantly limit 
the number of hand positions and worse, for me, lock those holds by limited 
wandering from any of them. The Midge bar on the tandem has to go because 
of this. My body rejects being locked into any position for very long at 
all as I ride, even if the terrain doesn't vary.

I have Nitto RM-013 bars on both my commuter and Rambouillet and make great 
use of their generous ramp length (not designed presuming brifters) but on 
my Coast rando I chose the RH rando bar for the additional contours of the 
tops for wandering hands and anticipated longer hours on the bike. I 
imagined that with different steering geometry a different bar would be 
good for my proprioception and new, distinct muscle memories as I switch 
back and forth between the others. It took a little bit riding to get 
accustomed to and make use of the attributes of the new bend after riding 
the same bars for 20 years before but really does work for me.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, November 16, 2023 at 11:17:20 AM UTC-5 modemm...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Eh, I'm really thinking of going back to a drop bar of some sort - there's 
> 1000 of them out there, and it seems ones with shallower drops and 
> mid to high flare are going to make the drops usable.  And I probably want 
> something with a longer ramp for even more position variability.  There are 
> just. so. many. bars. now.
>
> On Thursday, November 16, 2023 at 10:47:53 AM UTC-5 Johnny Alien wrote:
>
>> I love handlebar discussions. I am a pretty big fan of the Albastache 
>> bars and generally have moved to them in instances where I would normally 
>> use drops. Similar to you I don't really ride in the drops so Noodles just 
>> don't have the same amount of options. That said I also love the look and 
>> traditional feel of drops. I plan to try out the Blue Lug specific variant 
>> of the Noodles. They are the same bar but with shallower drops and less 
>> reach. It seems like that could be perfect and make riding in the drops 
>> more accessible. As far as anything that would keep you with road levers 
>> for brifters thats about the only options. Albastache bars are clunky set 
>> up that way because of the way you need to throw the lever to shift. I have 
>> only held off trying the BL bars because I am waiting for a stem I want to 
>> come in so that shipping makes more sense.
>>
>> Now if you do want to move toward a thumb shifter route for road bikes I 
>> cannot recommend the Losco bars enough. So good for a sweptback road 
>> experience.
>>
>> On Thursday, November 16, 2023 at 9:54:02 AM UTC-5 modemm...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have a 2016 Sam, from the batch of completes that year.  I love the 
>>> bike, and now that I'm riding a lot more (my wife was gifted with being 
>>> able to ride again after not being able to for years; she has a '16 Sam 
>>> too), I swapped bars from the stock (Nitto Noodle) to an Albastache.  
>>>
>>> The Noodle was only giving me ONE hand position, on the hoods.  The 
>>> drops didn't feel usable to me and the flats are just too narrow for my 
>>> comfort.  The hoods position was putting a lot of pressure on the meaty 
>>> part of my hands behind the thumbs.
>>>
>>> The 'Stache fixes that and gives me a lot of hand positions - on the 
>>> "hoods" (but it's a big flat on the 'Stache of course), behind them, and 
>>> pretty much all along the rest of the bar.  I like it, but...
>>>
>>> I do miss the hand position that only comes from having a drop bar on 
>>> being on those hoods in that orientation; I just need one that will put 
>>> them in a spot that doesn't put all the weight on the meaty-hand-part 
>>> behind the thumbs.
>>>
>>> I have to admit I also miss how the bike looks with a drop bar. O_o  I 
>>> dunno, I guess the bike just "wants" that look, to me.
>>>
>>> I'd also like to not run the shifters as barend shifters... So I'd go 
>>> thumbie or some type of (S DON'T TELL GRANT) brifter. 
>>>
>>> The other issue I don't have access to the funds that some others around 
>>> here seem to. :)  These bikes were EXPENSIVE to us 

[RBW] Re: Kid's First Pedal Bike (Riv parent edition)

[ascpgh]

Not a direct answer but for comparison information of objective spec and 
geometry for a child's bike I humbly offer Brian Chapman's chronology of 
bikes for his son, Tully,

Photos of first bike:
 https://www.flickr.com/photos/chapmancycles/albums/72157712905024887 


Photos of second bike: 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/chapmancycles/albums/72177720296619752

I know this is way outside of almost anyone's range for their child's 
earliest two wheelers but interesting to see what one of the most creative 
builders of frames, forks, racks brakes, trailers, pretty much anything 
bike related sees as important in geometry and component spec. Brian has 
some BMX history himself so these pre-geared bikes pull some personal 
design experience from that. His Instagram reels are enthralling for anyone 
who appreciates the process of shaping and connecting steel pieces. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 3:55:09 PM UTC-5 fiddl...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Since RBW regrettably doesn't make kids hillibikes, I'm going to have to 
> go a bit outside of my comfort zone to pick out a first pedal bike for my 
> son. He's ~3.5yo, and more than ready to move up from his 12" balance bike.
>
> Any tips from other parents who have recently gone through the switch from 
> balance to pedals? I'm leaning toward something like a Woom 3 (16"), since 
> they seem to be very well regarded, and I'm afraid he would outgrow a 14" 
> bike too soon at this point to justify the expense. (am I wrong?) Probably 
> also worth noting that a lot of his riding is currently on trails, so I'm 
> definitely looking for something that will work well off-pavement, too. 
> Anyhow, I'll take any advice the group is willing to throw at me - thanks 
> in advance for your help!
>
> Nick
>

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[RBW] Re: Compliments

[ascpgh]

My orange Rambouillet draws unsolicited compliments often. When riding The 
Five Boro Ride in NYC a few years ago my wife was impressed by the number 
of strangers who pulled alongside, took a long look at my bike and either 
gave silent thumbs up or gave compliment to it. She noticed the relative 
anonymity of all the CFRP bikes and how their riders looked dejected when 
positive comments on my bike came. Near the Verrazano Narrows Bridge she 
said "It's like we've been riding with 30,000 of your friends."

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Wednesday, November 15, 2023 at 3:01:31 PM UTC-5 aeroperf wrote:

> So one thing I’ve noticed - I mean REALLY noticed - about our Rivendell 
> bikes is that they get compliments.
>
> I ride the Silver Comet near Atlanta.  
> https://groups.google.com/g/bicycletouring/c/cFpcvUWqzkA
> For 15 years I rode a Diamondback Approach, a decent hybrid bike (as they 
> called those back in the ’90s).  I never heard a word from fellow riders.
> Then in 2015 I got a Sam Hillborne.  Bog standard, as the Brits say - Sage 
> Blue, cork grips.  I added some fenders and started seriously hitting the 
> trail for exercise.
>
> Suddenly folks are pulling up next to me (or going past), and saying “Nice 
> bike!”  Now I’m 74 and banging along at about 11 mph, so it’s not tough to 
> pull up next to me.  But this happens 2 - 3 times a year.  It surprises me.
>
> A couple of nice ladies went on about the friction shifters and “a hard 
> leather seat.  He’s hard core!”, before riding off on their carbon 
> Cannondales.  A nice gentleman commented at length on the cork grips. 
>  Maybe he was a fly fisherman?
>
> It happened again yesterday when I stopped for water.  Two guys also 
> stopped and were very complimentary about the Sam.  One asked to ride it 
> (sure!) and came back grinning (“If I didn’t already have too many bikes…”)
> It surprised my wife, too.  I built her up a Platypus last winter, and on 
> her second ride she got a “Nice bike!” from someone.  She came home with 
> smiles.
>
> Does this happen to you when you ride your Rivendell?  Tell us about the 
> compliments you get.

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Re: [RBW] Re: The Places Our Bikes Take Us

[ascpgh]

Wow. The places indeed!

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:12:54 PM UTC-4 Mojo wrote:

> Legolas through the Colorado National Monument[image: 18Apr14.jpg]
>
> On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 12:46:55 PM UTC-6 RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>
>> It (The GAP) is indeed a magical trail. That was going to be my next post 
>> in this thread - but on the Clem.:)
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2023, at 12:12 PM, Mike Godwin  wrote:
>>
>> Wow, that is just beautiful Andy. What a special place to live.
>>
>> Mike SLO CA 
>> On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 7:42:41 AM UTC-7 RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>>
>>> Whoops, got away without signatuure...
>>>
>>> Andy Cheatham
>>> Pittsburgh
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 10:41:52 AM UTC-4 RBW Owners Bunch 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 ter a long couple days of work I saw the weather forecast and checked 
 my favorite far point Air B, found it available and collected enough 
 clothing to cover a 40° swing from frost to sunny 70°s and set out for a 
 ride down the GAP in near peak foliage. A very nice 85 mile ride in the 
 woods, rarely other people out and a few of the widely spaced services of 
 which I took advantage.   
 [image: 4BD9352D-87DE-4FC3-93F5-B4CF15992323_1_105_c.jpeg][image: 
 9707191F-4278-4271-A874-F9C04EA5D5E1_1_105_c.jpeg][image: 
 F4A9FF43-CA9A-4451-BE6C-4581BF07622B_1_105_c.jpeg][image: 
 B0501357-E0E5-4BE6-A470-2548C2E3C866_1_201_a.jpg]


 On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 8:50:55 AM UTC-4 RBW Owners Bunch 
 wrote:

> One of my (and probably many of you) main motivations for riding my 
> bikes is to get to a special place. This may be a place of natural 
> beauty, 
> a quiet place to get away from the hustle of daily life or a place that 
> has 
> special meaning to us. Post a picture of a special place your bike has 
> taken you, and why this place is special.
>
> This is my Appaloosa at the mouth of the Huron River in the Upper 
> Peninsula of Michigan. The Huron Islands are visible in Lake Superior. 
> This 
> place is remote feeling and beautiful, and I was there recently  many 
> years 
> after my first visit.
> Randy in WI[image: Appaloosa Huron River BeachBWWEB.jpg]
>
 -- 
>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d65d239f-33e6-4b8a-992d-64d208c04526n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: The Places Our Bikes Take Us

[ascpgh]

Whoops, got away without signatuure...

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 10:41:52 AM UTC-4 RBW Owners Bunch wrote:

> ter a long couple days of work I saw the weather forecast and checked my 
> favorite far point Air B, found it available and collected enough 
> clothing to cover a 40° swing from frost to sunny 70°s and set out for a 
> ride down the GAP in near peak foliage. A very nice 85 mile ride in the 
> woods, rarely other people out and a few of the widely spaced services of 
> which I took advantage.   
> [image: 4BD9352D-87DE-4FC3-93F5-B4CF15992323_1_105_c.jpeg][image: 
> 9707191F-4278-4271-A874-F9C04EA5D5E1_1_105_c.jpeg][image: 
> F4A9FF43-CA9A-4451-BE6C-4581BF07622B_1_105_c.jpeg][image: 
> B0501357-E0E5-4BE6-A470-2548C2E3C866_1_201_a.jpg]
>
>
> On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 8:50:55 AM UTC-4 RBW Owners Bunch wrote:
>
>> One of my (and probably many of you) main motivations for riding my bikes 
>> is to get to a special place. This may be a place of natural beauty, a 
>> quiet place to get away from the hustle of daily life or a place that has 
>> special meaning to us. Post a picture of a special place your bike has 
>> taken you, and why this place is special.
>>
>> This is my Appaloosa at the mouth of the Huron River in the Upper 
>> Peninsula of Michigan. The Huron Islands are visible in Lake Superior. This 
>> place is remote feeling and beautiful, and I was there recently  many years 
>> after my first visit.
>> Randy in WI[image: Appaloosa Huron River BeachBWWEB.jpg]
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Bike Makeover Thread

[ascpgh]

The difficulty of less than common seat tube diameters was the indirect 
subject of another lister's, touched upon a bit ago from a different 
perspective: 
https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/ooTGF-OdSws/m/9T6WazuQAAAJ

Every bike is different but if feasible on your Platy, it can be done to 
permit something as nice as the Nitto S84 
.

Love Deb's "pre stock" grips for your Ergons. She's the best. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh




On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 7:36:47 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I’ve had enough experiences with bike shops to be very hesitant to hand 
> them my bike for a task that could ruin the frame. What happens if the hole 
> is reamed too large? I can’t see that the frame would be salvageable. 
>
> On Oct 12, 2023, at 9:10 AM, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>
> Many here have said that its not a big deal to get a bike shop to ream it 
> to 27.2 to allow for more seatpost options. I find it frustrating as well 
> but slightly less so because I don't need the extra setback. 
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 7:39:10 AM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Yeah, the whole 26.8 seat tube limitation has got to be one of the most 
>> frustrating things about this era of Rivendell. 
>>
>> On Oct 12, 2023, at 6:43 AM, Leah Peterson  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Ryan,
>> That seat post is butt ugly. The only ugly thing on the bike. I like the 
>> setback it offers, and there are zero other options for that. Zero. This 
>> bike is unimprovable, save this one thing: the seat tube should have been 
>> 27.2 so I would have some OPTIONS. It’s my one sorrow.
>> Leah
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2023, at 10:54 PM, Ryan  wrote:
>>
>> the grips are smashing.but nitto needs to make a 26.8 lugged seatpost
>> for that lovely bike.just saying
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 8:57:32 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> Raspberry Platypus BEFORE:
>>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>>
>>> [image: image6.jpeg]
>>>
>>>
>>> AND After…
>>> [image: image1.jpeg]
>>>
>>> [image: image2.jpeg][image: image3.jpeg][image: image4.jpeg][image: 
>>> image5.jpeg]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 11, 2023, at 9:53 PM, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
>>> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> In the same vein as my Bike Style thread, I’m starting a Bike Makeover 
>>> thread.
>>>
>>>
>>> Every now and then, I get the urge to change up the look of my favorite 
>>> Platypus. I have it perfect mechanically, but bags and grips and 
>>> occasionally, saddles, beg to be changed up. It’s fully autumn here in the 
>>> Great Lakes State, and my ivory Rivet was looking a little out of season. I 
>>> was gifted a chestnut Rivet from a dear RivSister, so I decided to pull it 
>>> out and put it on the bike. I took the brown Ergons from my other Platypus, 
>>> slapped them on and sent her a photo. 
>>>
>>> “That bike deserves prettier grips. Those are ugly,” she said, giving me 
>>> the unvarnished truth. 
>>>
>>> I looked again. She was right. Back to the drawing board. I finally 
>>> found these grips from Rivet Cycle Works - Deb told me she had these but 
>>> didn’t have them up on the website yet. She had the exact match to my 
>>> chestnut saddle and days later, I had these gorgeous stamped leather grips 
>>> in hand. The bike looks positively *tonal.* The colors of the paint 
>>> throw out so many different shades of pinks and reds, thanks to the 
>>> abundant glitter in the metallic; adding rich leather accessories only 
>>> elevates the look. The stamped designs on the leather give the bike some 
>>> texture and add visual interest at the handlebar area. 
>>>
>>> This Platypus is like a little autumn posey. Perfect and pretty, and 
>>> wholly appointed to its duty.
>>>
>>> Now if I can just convince Deb to make these in ivory, so I have a pair 
>>> to match my ivory Rivet saddle when spring comes…
>>>
>>> Attached in the next post are the before and afters.
>>> Leah
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[ascpgh]

I replaced the OE Shimano (then) long reach calipers of my '02 Rambouillet 
to get some braking in the wet which those groupless Shimanos failed to 
provide, even with salmon pads. What I gained was braking with modulation 
and adjustability far beyond what I had before. What I also got from these 
was clearance for the right size fenders over 700x 28mm tires. The original 
calipers had decreasing clearance beneath them as the brakes closed on the 
rims. Just a better design as a caliper.

On top of all of that I had the opportunity to talk to Paul Price at his 
Philly Bike Expo booth and was able to share my satisfaction and hear about 
how much of that had been included in the design as they refined it. 
Meeting him and having that conversation was worth the difference between 
the Racers and any other option.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 11:57:51 AM UTC-4 bunny...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've been on the lookout for a set of Paul Racer brakes for my rim brake 
> bike. I tend to find that cheaper U brakes have too much spring tension and 
> are not adjustable. My expectation is that Paul with be a very nicely made 
> brake with much more tweakability that I'll enjoy.  I probably should just 
> buy it new to support the semi-local business.
>
> -Ben
>
> On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 3:11:40 AM UTC-7 larson@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I have two bikes with Paul levers and love them. I upgraded my Black 
>> Mountain Cycles monstercross with Paul Neo Retro cantis and really like 
>> them and a significant improvement over the Tektros that I originally had 
>> on the bike.
>> Randy in WI
>>
>> On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 9:30:48 PM UTC-5 John Dewey wrote:
>>
>>> This is really old thread but I’ll chime in. 
>>>
>>> I found an NOS Saluki recently with PAUL center pulls. The bike, once I 
>>> applied a couple of component swaps, is beautiful. Very…uh…svelte, for want 
>>> of a better word. But those PAUL brakes just did not fit…to my eye anyway. 
>>> Too much industrial muscle and kind of stiff. I found some good old 
>>> Weinmann centerpulls, long reach—they fit the the theme perfectly and stop 
>>> surprisingly well. I sold the PAULS and put a wad of  in my pocket. YRMV, 
>>> but I’m happy. 
>>>
>>> Jock
>>>
>>> On Sun, Sep 25, 2022 at 10:52 AM Bill Fulford  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
 Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read 
 later 
 that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. 
 So 
 before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
 feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
 love levers. Are they worth it? 
>>>
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 .

>>>

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[RBW] Re: First ride report from Western PA

[ascpgh]

Nice, from a fellow Rambouillet owner. in SW PA Mine is an '02 orangesicle 
and I am out along those paths and ways alot. Will be looking for you.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Saturday, September 9, 2023 at 4:17:16 PM UTC-4 notlaw...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Greetings from Pittsburgh!
> New Rivendell owner exploring some local trails on a previously enjoyed 
> Rambouillet.
> Still getting the fit dialed in, but I'm really enjoying the bike on a mix 
> of paved/unpaved terrain.
>
> Thought I would share some images from three recent rides.
> Little Boston, Eliza Furnace, and Buffalo Creek
>
> Hopefully I've downsized these enough for easy viewing.
> See you out there,
> Chuck
>

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[RBW] Re: Wheel Builder

[ascpgh]

Peter White is also a very good resource for insight on hubs and rims to 
use for wheel builds. He always seems to have some things squirreled away 
that would be just the thing for your build. Have an honest assessment of 
your weight, riding, loads and other needs and he'll quote you up. He's 
built several wheel sets for me and I have nothing but compliments. several 
works for me too although not quite local. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Tuesday, August 15, 2023 at 7:09:15 AM UTC-4 jrst...@gmail.com wrote:

> Not close to you but I used Peter White on my last wheels and have been 
> very pleased. He is meticulous. 
>
> On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 7:49:49 PM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> Thanks. I've heard of Sugar but didn't think of that, I'll look into 
>> them. 
>>
>> On Monday, August 14, 2023 at 2:13:14 PM UTC-4 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I had several nice wheels over the years, including some Rich built. I 
>>> have to recommend Sugar wheel works. I had a set of SimWorks Stand-alone 
>>> rims (Velocity Cliffhanger) with CX ray spokes MI5 rear hub and Son front 
>>> and they were the nicest build I’ve ever seen by far. Great to work with 
>>> and the price was much better than some other options as well. 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 12:56:10 PM UTC-7 Josh C wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Laing. I do have a set of VO rims on a bike that I recently 
 acquired and like them so far. I've ridden on them throughout the summer 
 quite a bit. I like that they come in a polished finish but the highest 
 hole count is 36. I'm not sure how they will hold up just yet, but they 
 seem nice. Wish they did 'em in a 40h. I don't mind truing a wheel, and 
 have a truing stand, but I'd rather have a pro build the wheel. 

 On Sunday, August 13, 2023 at 2:05:52 PM UTC-4 lconley wrote:

> I almost always build my own wheels, but you cannot go wrong with 
> either Rich Lesnik (Rivendell / Hands On Wheels) or Peter White. I have 
> had 
> wheels from both, and they were flawless. Not local to you though, west 
> coast and east coast respectively.
>
> I use Velocity or Velo Orange rims; Phil Wood, White Industries, Paul, 
> Curtis Odom or classic Campagnolo hubs (Nuovo Record or Tipo); and 
> Wheelsmith (out of production but still out there) or Sapim spokes. Most 
> of 
> my wheels are now 40 and 48 spoke, but I do have quite a few 36 and even 
> a 
> couple 32s.
>
> Laing
> Delray Beach FL
>
> On Friday, August 11, 2023 at 9:13:50 AM UTC-4 Josh C wrote:
>
>> I could use a recommendation for a good wheel builder. I've used 
>> prowheelbuilder.com in the past and have no complaints. Not sure how 
>> I landed on them. Just curious if there is another business that I 
>> should 
>> be looking into? I'm located in Indianapolis as well, and would prefer 
>> sending business to a local or at least midwest company if possible.  
>>
>> I'm looking for a set of 700c wheels for my Atlantis. I'm thinking 
>> I'll do velocity cliffhangers with a SON up front and a nice rear hub. 
>> The 
>> rear is not yet totally decided as I like quiet hubs but there are not 
>> many 
>> options in rim brake, 36-40h hubs these days. I've got an onyx silent 
>> hub 
>> on my crust and love it but they only go up to 32h and I'd prefer 36 or 
>> 40 
>> as I'm a big dude. Which is why I'm thinking about a white industry 
>> (loud 
>> as they come) rear hub in 36 or 40h. 
>>
>> Anyway. I'd like to hear about your preferred wheel builders. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Riv Rider Recipes

[ascpgh]

I am motivated by the offerings of particular restaurants for recipe 
inspiration. I ride by a number of them on the way home from work:

Apteka  
Soju 
Spak Bros 
Tasty Taquitos 
People's Indian 
BFG Cafe 
Spork 
Primanti Bros 

Fish Nor Fowl 
Joseph Tambellini 
Park Bruges 
Teppanyaki Kyoto 
Smiling Banana Leaf 
Food Glorious Food 

I also pass a building labelled Lackzoom Acidophilus 
 which 
supports the observations of several that sensitivities with cultural and 
genetic roots make direct dietary recommendations difficult. This person 
turned that into a category of business, still with HQ here two and a half 
miles from this building. 

Anyone else have dietary inspirations or objectifications from restaurants?

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, August 24, 2023 at 12:49:39 AM UTC-4 coco...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hey Pam! 
>
> That granola bar sounds awesome - do you bake them or just form them into 
> a "powerball" type snack? What kinds of bread do you make? Do you use a 
> breadmaker?
>
> Your comment about recipe compatibility is also a topic of the beginning 
> of this thread! Since so many people are aligning themselves with different 
> diets these days, I was curious how many in the group had read Grant's 
> book, *Eat Bacon, Don't Jog *and was curious how many people either 
> aligned themselves with his ideals or have since/have always aligned with a 
> different nutritional path. Since bike people are often health conscious 
> and environmentally conscious, I figured there was probably an interesting 
> spread across those of us who contribute to the group!
>
> I don't think it's particularly helpful to try to make recipes that 
> absolutely everyone can eat. It can be at a dinner party, but I'm more 
> interested in people's tried and true recipes to learn more about each 
> other and to be able to share a variety of ideas on health and enthusiasm 
> for food. If you're interested in cuisine, I think that it can be easy to 
> appreciate and respect someone else's love for cooking even if it is 
> following the restrictions (or lack thereof) of someone else's theories.
>
> I also stated in the beginning that this is not a space to sh** on other's 
> beliefs, but a space to compare and share! It seems like we have quite a 
> trove of foodies and it would be fun to compile the recipes into a 
> collection that we all have access to! :)
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 23, 2023 at 4:32 PM Pam Bikes  wrote:
>
>> I'm afraid there are too many limitations and individual differences that 
>> make recipes difficult.  Some people are vegan, vegetarian, keto, diabetic, 
>> gluten free, soy free, shellfish allergies, etc.  
>>
>> I eat locally, seasonally, bake my own bread and make everything from 
>> scratch but I'm not a calorie counter and have no restrictions.  And 
>> everyone's local produce selection is different.  Not to mention the 
>> organic or not.  
>>
>> I do make a granola bar with just oats, peanut butter, honey then top 
>> w/chocolate chips, coconut, nuts etc.  that is high density in calories and 
>> easy for a road snack.  I just take snacks like nuts, crackers, etc in my 
>> bag in case I get hungry.
>>
>> On Wednesday, August 23, 2023 at 2:18:29 PM UTC-4 coco...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Patrick - great links! Definitely some great ideas in there. I've also 
>>> been reading a lot about Traditional Chinese Medicine and some of the more 
>>> surface level ideas they have surrounding food and its properties in 
>>> relation to one's physical constitution. There's a lot I don't understand, 
>>> and a lot of traditional herbal knowledge that is still beyond me, but it's 
>>> been interesting to try to incorporate some of the food ideas into my diet 
>>> and see some of the results. Because different food and herbs and spices 
>>> interact with our internal balance then you have to mediate any imbalances 
>>> by incorporating more of certain things and less of others to try to get 
>>> back to a sort of equilibrium. 
>>>
>>> These ideas are how I got a lot of inspiration to remove gluten, sugars 
>>> and dairy, more so than Grant's book, although that was still pretty 
>>> informative.The health complaints I was having have resolved themselves 
>>> almost completely with the removal of a lot of these foods and it's been 
>>> really interesting to explore non-Western ideas of nutrition and health.
>>>
>>> Anyone do yoga or incorporate any of those ideas? 

Re: [RBW] Ride Report // Île d'Oléron

[ascpgh]

John, thanks for getting the pictures to go with your vacation story. It 
was very rewarding to have imagined your surroundings and rides from your 
words and then compare them with your subsequent images, like oysters and 
wine.

Thanks for sharing your trip.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 10:18:05 AM UTC-4 John Johnson wrote:

> Hmmm, okay, I warned you that I'm new at this! Let me try again... Do 
> these show up?
> [image: 20230811_203434.jpg]
> [image: 20230811_173157.jpg][image: 20230811_153741.jpg][image: 
> 20230811_115007.jpg][image: 20230811_114047.jpg][image: 
> 20230809_103159.jpg]
> cheers,
>
> John
>
> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 4:05:33 PM UTC+2 daniell...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> John, this sounds like my dream family vacation. Thanks for 
>> sharing/inspiring! I second Patrick's sentiments and request for a photo 
>> repost – I'd love to see them!
>>
>> On Monday, August 21, 2023 at 9:31:01 AM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> John: Welcome to the group and thanks for the vacation ride report. 
>>>
>>> Can you repost the photos? They did not show up and I expect it's 
>>> because the files are too big. But from your description they will be well 
>>> worth seeing.
>>>
>>> Patrick Moore
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 21, 2023 at 3:53 AM John Johnson  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hello everyone,

 I'm posting a ride report. It's my first and I hope this meets your 
 rigorous group standards for what a "ride" consists of. For me, a ride is 
 a 
 ride - short or long, intense or easy, fast or party pace. 

 Most of my rides these days are with my family (wife and 3 year old 
 son). I am reporting on our week of rides vacationing on the Island of 
 Oléron, of the coast of France (we live inland near Fontainebleau, so 
 Oléron is only a few hours' drive away). Oléron is the second largest 
 Island (after Corsica) in Metropolitan France. It's got a fairly mild 
 climate in winter and summer and the main industries (if you want to call 
 them that) are oyster farming, salt production, and wine growing. So, if 
 you like quiet beaches, bikes, white wine, and oysters, it's not the worst 
 place to spend your vacation. 

 We took our 2 Clems, a Burley Bee trailer, and our kid's bike on the 
 bike of the car and drive the 4 and half hours to get to the island, 
 sitting in traffic to get across the bridge until we finally made it to a 
 small BnB in the village of Dolus. We then parked the car and didn't touch 
 it for the rest of the week. All our trips around the island were by bike 
 and it is almost a perfect island for bike exploring on bike paths or 
 dedicated bike lanes (there's only a few places we found where you can't 
 avoid going onto a big main road with not shoulder). There are over 130 km 
 of dedicated bike paths on the 30x8km island.

 The weather was less than stellar the first day we arrived - it was 
 raining most of the drive to the island, and though the rain had stopped, 
 it was cold and dreary the first day. That first evening we rode down to 
 La 
 Chevalerie for an "Oyster festival" though, I think it was just an ad hoc 
 restaurant that one of the oyster farms set up for people vacationing on 
 the island. Either way, I had the best oysters I've ever had, really great 
 moules frites (which, we probably ate at least once a day while we were 
 there), and decent bottle of local Pineau. We shivered a bit sitting 
 outside with our meal, but once we were back on our bikes and riding 
 through the cold night air, it was extremely pleasant riding weather. 

 The rest of the week , it was warm, sunny and yeah, more/less perfect 
 for riding and swimming.

 Our rides consisted mostly of riding la Cotinière or St. Pierre 
 d'Oléron a few km away, or a slightly longer ride to St. Trojan les Bains 
 in the south (to ride the famous little train that's there) or go see Fort 
 Boyard from Boyardville. The routes to St Trojan or Boyardville go through 
 tons of oyster-beds, and it's nice rustic scenery to ride through. The 
 island is almost perfectly flat, so there's not much elevation to speak of 
 - most of our rides were meandering around, stopping to look at horses, 
 take photos, or check google maps again because we had gotten off track. 
 Most of the bike routes are gravel or paved, but a few of them went 
 through 
 small forest tracks and we found ourselves in a bit of mud the first 
 couple 
 nights riding back in the dark after dinner (Google maps has some fun 
 ideas 
 about bike routes - definitely can take you off the beaten path, sometimes 
 right into someone's garden, but always an adventure. After a few er, 
 um... 
 mistakes, we starting paying better attention to the bike path signs and 
 stuck to them a bit more closely). 

[RBW] Re: Unexpected wear on 42 t Sugino chainring: normal or poor cleaning & lube regimen? Ditto, Phil crank bearings.

[ascpgh]

Chainrings have varied for me by price. Cheaper stamped (softer) aluminum 
ones seem like they have the hardness and wear of a Hershey product.  I've 
been amazed by the durability of the harder alloy TA rings since I got my 
Rambouillet built with Zephyr cranks with them. I  have only changed rings 
for tooth count necessity when going from triple to wide double. Same for 
the Phil Wood BB, I switched to an SKF when doing the triple-wide double 
conversion because having built a commuter with a PW based on my good 
results with the Ram's PW BB that only lasted one winter. For comparable 
money I chose the SKF with lots of seals. Ten years on both the SKF and TA 
46-34 rings. Three years so far on my Coast rando RH 46-30 rings and SKF BB 
without signs of wear. I sold the commuter a couple years ago with the 
UN-51 BB I tossed in to replace the PW while I got the bearings serviced. 
It kept on surviving through the rains and winters with its simple rubber 
grommet "seals" and the PW's send away repair became a very back burner 
task. 

I have a low threshold for replacing chains and but follow your current 
maintenance process mostly using ProLink Gold. I refuse to let a chain be 
dear to me if it wears, too many nice parts (chainrings) to waste if they 
go too far. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Friday, August 4, 2023 at 7:39:11 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I was surprised to see the degree of hooking on this 42 t Sugino ring when 
> I went to replace it t'other day for a 44. It has about 3800 miles on it, 
> no more than half ridden on ditchbank roads and trails with very fine, 
> river-silt sand. I've used Sugino rings for years, on pavement and on the 
> same ditchbank routes, tho' usually 46 t or bigger, and I don't think I've 
> seen wear this fast.
>
> The installed-new Phil bb bearing assembly with the same miles also was 
> dry and rough; not notchy but certainly not greasy-smooth. I've used Phil 
> crank bearings for years, pavement and similar pavement/dirt use, and get 
> at least 2X the miles.
>
> Questions for you other sand riders: 
>
> 1. What mileage do you expect from a smallish chainring, and ditto for a 
> good quality crank bearing assembly? In what riding conditions?
>
> 1 bis: What mileage do you expect from Phil bb bearings? In ditto?
>
> 2. How often do you clean your drivetrain and lube your chains? And:
>
> 3. Describe your drivetrain and chain maintenance regimen.
>
> No more than halfway thru said 3.8K miles I switched to mane-at-Analog's 
> chain maintenance method: wipe thoroughly, lube sparingly with dry lube 
> (ProLink, Purple somethingwhatever, etc) wipe, let dry, wipe again very 
> thoroughly).
>
> Until perhaps 1.5 or 2K into this drivetrain I'd been using Molten Speed 
> Wax in a crockpot, and I used paraffin and crockpots for my earlier 
> Sugino-ring drivetrains. Waxed chains don't collect dust.
>
> >>> Might the accelerated ring wear be due to a poorer lube method?
>
> OTOH, what accounts for such rapid Phil bb bearing wear?
>
> Please excuse the typical bad photos. I do try hard and several times but 
> to no avail.
>
> Thanks.
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Best Riv Rando Bike

[ascpgh]

Another vote for the Rambouillet here.

Grant described the intent of the Rambouillet to me as a French 
audax-inspired bike when I spoke to him about a bike for a cross country 
ride (and afterwards) that would be a light load, credit card trip versus 
self-supported full touring one. I was calling initially about the custom 
queue and wait at the time and he said the production sibling of the 
Atlantis was in a container, on the ocean now and sounded like it fit my 
bill, so I got one and have loved it since then. 

He described the under-square main triangle (TT Looking for thoughts/opinions on best Riv model for randonneuring. Thanks
>
>

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Re: [RBW] 650b Gravel Bikes?

[ascpgh]

I looked to 650B as a solution to my particular fit issues for an all road 
bike the other year. Grant was very frame size dependent in his support of 
650B and felt that above a certain size (several below mine) the utility of 
the wheel size ended its utility. Those considerations are fair for stock 
geometry. 

The problem for me and my ideal under square (2-3cm) frame dimensioning is 
that I get into toe overlap with 700c wheels with fatter tires. I wanted 
broader capacity for rougher road riding and load carrying so 650B was my 
way to go. I still would rather ride smarter than fasteron unpaved surfaces 
and 650Bx42 has provided all the envelope I need without tapping my Walter 
Mitty thoughts.

I made many purchases and gone down bicycle and equipment rabbit holes 
chasing more "performance" only to find out the lease expensive component 
of my bike is where the greatest capacity to upgrade resides...me. 

I had my 650B bike built and ride it hundreds of miles off pavement, with 
fenders, on RH Babyshoe Pass tires set up tubeless on Pacenti Brevet rims, 
three years so far without reason to look back or second guess the formula. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Saturday, July 1, 2023 at 8:03:47 PM UTC-4 ted.l...@gmail.com wrote:

> I don’t know about a bike dedicated to 650B in all sizes but some smaller 
> Rivs come as a 650B and the Susie is 650B… but what is a gravel bike, after 
> all, but a bike ridden on gravel or hard-pack dirt roads? I would classify 
> most of the bikes made by Riv as gravel or gravel adjacent. They’ve almost 
> all got generous tire clearance. The only thing modern gravel bikes have 
> that Rivs lack are expensive electronics and disc brakes, really…
>
> On Sat, Jul 1, 2023 at 4:47 PM George Schick  wrote:
>
>> There has been a lot of discussion about "gravel bikes" on this blog 
>> lately, but has there been any consideration given to a 650B gravel bike, 
>> so to speak?  IOW, are there any bikes set up like a 650B and with 
>> available "gravel accommodating" tires available?  Maybe I've missed 
>> something in the discussion threads, but I can't recall seeing this.
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
> -- 
> Ted Wood < ted.l...@gmail.com >
>

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Re: [RBW] Riv-inspired off-road bike

[ascpgh]

Maestro 1°, old Mike, did the stay bridge repair on my Rambouillet when the 
original brazing broke loose, he was between heart those attacks at that 
point and why I had to look elsewhere I was looking for a builder to make 
me an under square custom bike as his plate was already fuller than he 
could likely address.

Builders that find their way and will have gone through evolutions that 
start with individual features, materials and design details that are 
commonplace and as they perfect their execution of their vision will derive 
their own expression of those from all of their insight practice and 
hopefully feedback. A frame that holds the back wheel, BB, seat post and 
fork of defined dimension may be "custom" or differ from stock models but 
the beauty of the bike will come from the seamless integration and 
presentation of all of those individual inspirations. Single ideas or 
several deviations from 'standards" that haven't been smoothly worked in to 
a design will stick out a bit.  

Maestro 2° may find his way but will have to balance attracting customers 
and branching from what is already out there and accepted. He is in charge 
of the pitch of his own slope in this climb. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Monday, May 29, 2023 at 8:41:10 PM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Interesting article for sure. Kind of lost me at “suspension corrected” 
> but still interesting. On the subject of Susie vs. Gus; when both frames 
> were available Grant said in his description that there was “no ride 
> difference” between the two. I don’t know, having only ridden the Gus. I 
> think the Gus is a very capable MTB. Perhaps not the best choice for really 
> aggressive riding but pretty darn perfect for the trails I ride & the way I 
> ride them. Also, the v brakes are definitely up to the task.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 29, 2023, at 4:03 PM, Joe D.  wrote:
>
> Here's a neat article about a rider and frame builder inspired by Riv's 
> Susie Longbolts: 
>
>
> https://bikepacking.com/bikes/maestro-rat-snake-prototype/
>
> It makes me wonder what their impression would be of a stiffer Rivendell 
> Hillibike, like the Atlantis or especially Gus Boots Wilson.
>
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> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Getting in over my head

[ascpgh]

Leah's true sufferfest may have been reduced tolerance to the over 
necessity of all the "go-fast" gear, the seeming standard issue of the 
average bicyclist, while under the duress of her 10/10ths performance. The 
interesting part is that she did more on that ride than the rest. All their 
stiffer, lighter and aero stuff just being cheat codes for the work at 
hand. If part of her bicycling has to do with exercise and enjoying the 
ride, Leah got more than them.

We all find our sweet spot in bicycling, what we like, what rewards us, 
what becomes our focus. On that path we evolve towards perfecting that and 
it's jarring when contrast is implied (or obtusely verbalized). It is very 
much a tangent to enjoy the process, its duration and the surroundings.

Most advances have been shortcuts for reducing work or doing it in less 
time so we could get back to the cave to paint another bison or the couch 
for TV.  What cyclists do with the saved time and reduced effort is 
interesting, if they are even aware of accruing it.  

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 4:31:20 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

> I would also like to see a video of my suffering. And handlebar streamers 
> and white basket will be forthcoming. 
>
> I wondered why I wasn’t faster in the downhill, too. I’m thinking it’s 
> because though my bike is heavier, my bodyweight is less than theirs. I’m 
> hard for the women to keep up with on the downhills…
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On May 16, 2023, at 11:43 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
> 
>
> I'd love to see a video of Leah suffering on the Platypus with handlbar 
> streamers and white straw basket to keep up with the fast boys on carbon 
> fiber. But good job, says someone whose fast days are long gone. 
>
> But Leah ought to be winner on the downhills. Long ago, as a spritely 
> early 50-something, I rode with Gary "It was a bad year; only 9,000 miles" 
> Blakely up the long Tramway climb. Downhill I continually pulled ahead 
> because at 170 I weighed about 35 lb more than he. Bikes about the same (me 
> #1 Riv custom, he refurbished -- by Mark Bulgier, IIRC -- Trek)
>
> 4 years ago I did  several rides with a group of engineers from Sandia 
> labs, thanks to a friend who was then working there (he retired a couple of 
> years ago). The others were all younger than I -- I would guess most in 
> 3-0s and 40s with leader in early-mid 50s; I 64, friend 60 or 61 -- and 
> rode derailleur bikes, mostly cf; I was on my '99 fixie gofast with 76" 
> gear. 20, 30, and ??37? -- I bailed; see below -- rides. I bailed on the 
> last one after facing a ~5 mile gradual uphill into Bernalillo with a 
> headwind and gradually falling behind the group, tho' another rider very 
> kindly shepherded me to the Bernalillo rest stop.
>
> But man, with the open road, tail wind, and downhill I was spinning out 
> the 76" gear much of the way home.
>
> On Tue, May 16, 2023 at 9:18 AM Brian Forsee  wrote:
>
>> Sounds like you crushed it Leah! Way to get out of your comfort zone.
>>
>> Brian
>>
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[RBW] Re: Double 1x

[ascpgh]

Somewhere in the last two days I read something roughly this: "I tried to 
ditch front derailleurs on my road bike but they just work so well." 
Perhaps from one of the bike topic digest emails I get daily but oh so 
true. I solved my FD needs on my newest 2x bike with an NOS SunTour Superbe 
Pro from the mid '80s. Fit and worked better than all of the current FDs 
from three makers. 

When I see the size of those cassettes and necessity for expensive 
materials to keep their weight appropriate, RDs requiring clutches and 
reduced compatibility of shifters, it rekindles the thought that my 2x road 
drivetrains are pretty good. They are simple, elegant and yet 
sophisticated, durable and light. Above all I am not perplexed by their 
operation, adjustment or maintenance. i'm not going change what works for 
me, the struggle to reach that point had many lessons both near and far 
from home or a sag call.

What seems simple (1x) sometimes comes with great complexity once details 
start being ironed out. I'm not a fan of the complete component group 
drivetrain sales to volume manufacturers targeting new or newer cyclists 
being the driving standard. They are telling the experienced cyclist that 
they don't matter to them.

Shimano sales were down 17% in 2022, forecast to be down 22% in 2023. How's 
that model working out for them? CUES is their response. Hope they start 
considering the dedicated,, experienced cyclists a bit more.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh




On Sunday, April 30, 2023 at 1:04:45 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I had a nice 1x and wanted slightly lower gears for some crazy hills 
> around here, but didn't want to lose the already relatively low top end so 
> mashed some parts together and this is the result. 
>
> Starting point: SRAM Rival 1 (with clutch) rear derailer, I believe the 
> largest cog this is supposed to handle is 42t. I added a Garbaruk cage and 
> pulleys and it shifts a SunRace 11-50 11-spd cassette with a SRAM Apex 
> trigger shifter. The front is a Sugino XD crank with 34t chainring. 
>
> Ok what happens if I want double rings? The manufacturer stuff says I 
> can't use a 1x derailer (I don't know why) so I thought I would cheat a 
> little and make it kind of two 1x's by adding a 30t inner ring, Shimano 
> Deore (DynaSys 10-spd double) FD and a Silver2 thumbshifter on the stem. It 
> works! 
>
> Ok it doesn't work completely fabulously yet, the downshift to the small 
> ring doesn't always take and I still have some fiddling to do but overall 
> the bike works well for me using all of the gears in the 30t plus grabbing 
> the top 2 or 3 in the 34t on occasion, and sometimes just staying in the 
> 34t like before. It's not a massive increase in gear range, I think of it 
> as an expanded 1x. 
>
> Does it make sense? I don't know, maybe this can be duplicated by ye old 
> triple drivetrains with 11-36 cassettes but I don't like triples. I like 
> this! 
>
> Joe "tried to ditch front derailers, ended up with a front derailer again" 
> Bernard
>
> [image: Screenshot_20230429_211431.jpg][image: 
> Screenshot_20230429_211411.jpg]
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Son Hub advice

[ascpgh]

The manner of connecting the disc to a hub matters for disc replacement. 
When mounted the caliper only cares about the diameter of the rotor. I was 
happy to choose the center mount format. On their website they call 
six-bolt "robust" and center lock "Shimano format". 

Having to keep up with six threaded fasteners' torque and ensure they are 
not seized in the dissimilar metal's threads versus one larger fastener 
which only has to hold the disc fixture onto straight splines which handle 
the heavy forces. I cannot imagine the recovery from a stripped bolt hole 
in a six bolt format SON hub body. Your BB/cassette lockring  tool will 
operate the fastener. Nice big, larger diameter threading you can see and 
keep lubricated/anti-seized.

For my use (as originally presented) this hub, built by Peter W. on a 
Velocity Synergy rim, is on my Surly commuter. I can at will remove the 
disc and put it on my Rambouillet, used with the Racer rim brakes. To me 
that's future proofing, shedding the disc braked bike I use it on now was a 
secondary point that spawned its own thread now. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Tuesday, April 18, 2023 at 4:54:56 AM UTC-4 peter...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello everyone, 
> Thank you very much for the advice! I'd read it all then and came back 
> today with the idea that I'll take the disc-hub. Then I read through the 
> emails again
>
> Anyway, I think my thought on "future-proof" was incomplete. I have never 
> tried disc brakes over a longer period so don't have any strong opinions 
> about it - except that I don't know how to fix it if I have to (yet). That 
> being said, if an opportunity comes up I would like to give it a shot. I 
> should have also mentioned that this is for a bike (hopefully) meant for 
> touring - so I'm always thinking of many birds and less stones. Perhaps 
> "multiple-scenario-proof" would be better.
>
> I'd decided on the disc-hub, considering I'll have my current frame not 
> worrying about taking this hub to a thru axle frame, with the pros - 
> - good v-brakes are getting hard to find - shimano still makes deore & xt 
> but until when? (can't afford the pauls)
> - option to switch to disc when I would like to try it
> - 26" rims are also not too common - even more for rim-brakes, this gives 
> the flexibility (disc rims could potentially also last longer considering I 
> don't have to change the rim only the disc brakes parts)
>
> The concerns in my head were first as Peter mentioned about the rim 
> flexing, if this more the case with disc rims - this is an unknown unknown 
> territory for me. Second, wider flange spacing would have been nicer, but I 
> see a lot of people touring with disc Son hubs and I think these should 
> hold good enough too.
>
> Thank you for the suggestion for the centerlock brakes! Until last week 
> I'd no idea there were multiple disc brake mounts - I read this is a 
> Shimano thing so I'm wondering if it makes more sense to go with mounts 
> that are more commonly used.
>
> @Laing - I would be interested in the Panasonic hubs but I couldn't find 
> much info/review on their durability for touring.
>
> back to riding and thinking mode, 
> Peter
>
> Am So., 16. Apr. 2023 um 20:52 Uhr schrieb ascpgh :
>
>> I have a SON QR disc hub on my commuter (love it, thanks Peter W.) and 
>> had it built so I could move it to my Rambouillet when I tire of either the 
>> bike (Disc Trucker) or no longer need a commuter.  So it has the same rim 
>> as my Ram and the disc mount is lockring instead of 6-bolt. A quarter turn 
>> with a Shimano cartridge BB/cassette lockring tool and it's gone. I 
>> unsderstand the flange stance difference between the disc and rim brake 
>> spec hubs but seems within reasonableness given that both are pretty large 
>> diameter flanges compared to non-generator hubs when considering the loss 
>> of flange width between the two. I felt like was getting two birds with one 
>> stone.
>>
>> Future proof? My fifteen year experiment with discs on drop bar, bar end 
>> shifter bikes lead me to spec cantilevers on my custom two years ago. I'll 
>> gladly accept the the variables I know about brakes, braking, parts, 
>> pieces, installation and adjustment over unique, sporadic mystery sounds 
>> and finickiness that are beyond control and lead to throwing new parts into 
>> the system at a rate embarrassing compared to rim brakes. 
>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, April 15, 2023 at 7:47:32 AM UTC-4 peter...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Hi, 
>>>
>>> I'm looking to get the Son dynamo hub. Considering it's price I'd rather 
>>> make an informed (s

[RBW] Re: Son Hub advice

[ascpgh]

I have a SON QR disc hub on my commuter (love it, thanks Peter W.) and had 
it built so I could move it to my Rambouillet when I tire of either the 
bike (Disc Trucker) or no longer need a commuter.  So it has the same rim 
as my Ram and the disc mount is lockring instead of 6-bolt. A quarter turn 
with a Shimano cartridge BB/cassette lockring tool and it's gone. I 
unsderstand the flange stance difference between the disc and rim brake 
spec hubs but seems within reasonableness given that both are pretty large 
diameter flanges compared to non-generator hubs when considering the loss 
of flange width between the two. I felt like was getting two birds with one 
stone.

Future proof? My fifteen year experiment with discs on drop bar, bar end 
shifter bikes lead me to spec cantilevers on my custom two years ago. I'll 
gladly accept the the variables I know about brakes, braking, parts, 
pieces, installation and adjustment over unique, sporadic mystery sounds 
and finickiness that are beyond control and lead to throwing new parts into 
the system at a rate embarrassing compared to rim brakes. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Saturday, April 15, 2023 at 7:47:32 AM UTC-4 peter...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hi, 
>
> I'm looking to get the Son dynamo hub. Considering it's price I'd rather 
> make an informed (still quite impulsive) decision..hah!
>
> I have a bike with both rim and disc brake mounts (with QR) so I usually 
> buy disc hubs, to future proof the hub purchase, but continue to run 
> v-brakes (for now). Is this a sound approach to continue with this buy i.e. 
> disc hubs with v-brake rims?
>
> Based on SON's website, I think Son28 would be appropriate considering 
> it's better to charge devices at low speeds. So, in this case I would take 
> the "SON 28 Hub Dynamo - 6-Bolt - QR".
>
> Thank you for your insight!
> Peter
>

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[RBW] Re: [BOB] Re: TC hub, chromed, finally!

[ascpgh]

Patrick, kudos on the return to appearance and function of that hub! Stuff 
that works deserves to be kept serviceable and this is certainly a great 
example. The fact that your senses are rewarded by its operation under your 
riding circumstances and that you have been able to return it to original 
or better condition is awesome. Thanks for sharing your observations and 
its progress.

I am in the camp of those who perceive the bike part makers narrowing their 
objectives and becoming interested mainly in selling the latest gizmos to 
people of either experience or mostly of concern for keeping up with the 
latest kit rather than propagating continued use of something made 
previously. That new hub based system that can vary tire pressure comes to 
mind, which is really a "say no more" item in my mind compared to your hub.

Andy Cheatham 
Pittsburgh



On Thursday, April 6, 2023 at 5:29:05 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Ian: Here finally are photos as I promised of the 1999 Joe Starck fixed 
> gear 26" wheel custom with the TC hub and with the Elk Pass tires back on 
> in place of the Naches Passes.
>
> I'm copying the list in case anyone is interested.
>
> The TC came from a IHG aficionado on the IGH list who has owned far more 
> old SA IGH hubs than I. The innards were good, so I had the rusty shell 
> re-chromed in Seattle and the innards inspected, cleaned, and lubed by 
> IGH-meister Aaron at Rat City Bikes in the same city (Aaron orchestrated 
> the chroming at a local shop). Aaron also swapped out the TC-specific 
> 12-spline driver for a modern AW driver so I can use modern 3/32" cheap SA 
> cogs. (The TF has the same 12-spline pattern but won't accept an AW driver, 
> so I had modern cogs adapted to fit that 12-spline driver; works fine.)
>
> Again: TC: direct + 86.54%, so 76" and 66"; TF: direct + 75% -- like 
> shifting from a 52 to a 39 t ring: 76" and 57".
>
> The TF has almost no lash; it feels much like the Phil fixed/fixed hub. 
> The TC has less lash than the unfortunate S3X but enough that it seems to 
> have the defects of freewheel and fixed: there is much banging on over-run. 
> Perhaps I need to work on my pedal stroke.
>
> If anyone has a TF and would like to trade for an as-new TC, please look 
> me up. (Craig: are you listening? Otherwise it's a shout into the abyss, 
> I'm sure.) I can get similar ratios to the TC with my Phil and a 17/19 
> Dingle: 76" and 68", and the wheel has a QR skewer.
>
> Altogether under $500 total for the hub, about half what I spent for the 
> TF which was NOS with all the bits including the quadrant shifter on the 
> tt, + a handfull of NOS 1/8" 12-spline SA cogs, all shipped from England.
>
> Shifter: That's the TF shifter in the picture. I had thought it pulled 
> insufficient cable to shift the TC reliably; on my first test runs the TC 
> started to skip in underdrive after a few miles. Looking back on things, I 
> rather think that was because I had one of those combo 
> slotted-head/Phillips head screws on the clamp and didn't torque it down 
> hard enough. I replaced that bolt with an allen head bolt and at least on 
> today's ride there was no skipping. But I did not stand and mash mightily 
> up hills in underdrive. I did find a NOS -- and much prettier: silver -- 
> quadrant 3-speed shifter on British eBay, which has a much longer pull 
> between 1 and 2 than between 2 and 3, and I may install that when I next 
> mess with the wheel and shifting setup.
>
> I'm sure everyone has long since stopped reading, so I'll stop writing. 
> But nice mid-workday ride on a pretty Spring day at 61*F, sun (finally!), 
> low humidity, and moderate wind.
>
> I add a couple of pics of #2 with the TF and the Naches Passes, which I 
> rode for a week or so on our moisture-firmed ditchbank roads.
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Ramouillet max tire

[ascpgh]

There have been a number of questions about the maximum tire size clearance 
the Rambouillet but in my experience a 38mm will fit but by that point the 
front end geometry, which is so attractive and defining of the F changes 
enough that even a dullard such as me can tell that the bike handles better 
with 32mm tires. Essentially, while riding the 38s I felt that it was good 
to have the extra loft for all the things I'd hit as I struggled against 
the bike to steer clear of them. 

My 2002 64cm Rambouillet had 33.3mm tires on Velocity Synergy rims and I 
immediately put plastic fenders over them for a long ride inspiring picking 
the bike. They had some rattling under the original Shimano "groupless" 
calipers I attributed to flex of the plastic's unsupported spans. Those 
calipers were the pinnacle center mount caliper clearance on the market at 
the time. I found the underside of the calipers lost some of their resting 
clearance profile as they closed on the rims for braking and  rattled a set 
of Honjo aluminum fenders I tried secondhand from another lister. 

Ever open to ways to reach the best combination of better riding tires 
under fender I got my first set of Rene Herse (nee Compass) Stampede Pass 
EL tires and a set of Paul Racer center mount brakes and I believe I have 
reached the Rambouillet nirvana after 20 years of fooling around with it. 
What my Ram doesn't offer with these brakes over correctly sized fenders 
and these really nice tires I used as the basis for my custom 650B Coast 
Rando. 

My recommendation is supported and tempered by a recent revisit, wondering 
if a high quality supple set of 38mm RH Barlow Pass tires might shine 
through the pneumatic trail that they inflict. They didn't, still feels 
'off" from the intersection of handling and ride at 32mm. I've kept this 
bike on those Velocity Synergy rims the whole time (thanks, Peter) so that 
variable isn't at play. Some tire sidewall labeling varies from a caliper 
readings, I never got too ruffled by that while out in the weeds of the 
tire marketplace. 

Pictures of OE brakes and Paul Racer calipers over fenders and 32mm 
Stampede Pass tires 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Wednesday, March 29, 2023 at 12:07:58 PM UTC-4 cdres...@gmail.com wrote:

> I know this has been covered before but still not quite sure what the max 
> tire size is for a Rambouillet. Mine is a 2003 and right now I run 700x25 
> with plastic fenders. When I replace those tires with larger ones but it 
> looks pretty tight to go no more than a 28. Herse has the Chinook (28) and 
> the Cayuse Pass (26).
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Old RBW road bike like the Rambouillet?

[ascpgh]

The murky brake situation mixed with varying rear clearance within the 
Rambouillet year models too. I don't recall if there had been 
miscommunication with Toyo or some purposeful intent. A dropout spec change 
could have given or taken a millimeter or two but bridge spec probably was 
the cause.

My 2002 Ram had its rear dropouts replaced and I never measured to see if 
those or a new, different set of brake pads had eased the reach that 
previously required the pads to be set at the utter bottom of the slots. 
The dropouts used were a preference of the builder doing the warranty 
repair after the drive side one broke.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 4:36:27 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> The brake situation is a little murkier than that. Ram/Rom used mid-reach 
> which GP was able to find from Shimano, it didn't have a model name just 
> Shimano. Then he got Tektro to do a long-reach caliper for Saluki, Hilsen 
> and Bleriot. That brake spread to other models and eventually Tektro did a 
> mid-reacher, too. 
>
> In current parlance the Roadeo still uses mid-reach (if you can get one 
> ordered and built), as did the first gen Roadini. The latest Roadini 
> switched to long-reach. 
>
> Simple! 
>
> On Friday, March 24, 2023 at 12:29:56 PM UTC-7 Doug Van Cleve wrote:
>
>> Thanks folks, it was bugging me that I couldn't remember.
>>
>> I forgot that it was a complete bike vs. frameset like the Ram.  
>> Something easy to forget today is that non-short reach brakes were not 
>> really available new in the mid to late '90s, that's why the LongLow used 
>> cantis.  Tektro bringing out the mid-reach dual pivots is what triggered 
>> the Ram/Rom/Bleriot etc...
>>
>> Doug
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 24, 2023 at 11:25 AM Eric Marth  wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Doug — The Romulus was offered as a complete bike and "budget" 
>>> version of the Rambouillet. 
>>>
>>> Full brochure here: 
>>> http://notfine.com/rivendell/Brochures/Rivendell%20Frames%20Romulus.pdf 
>>>
>>> [image: Screenshot 2023-03-24 at 2.24.19 PM.png]
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Let's talk about the All Rounder

[ascpgh]

Sean, I'm biased because I had an XO and was happy with its versatility and 
ability to run tires up to 1.9" but the real test came when I agreed to 
join a group of three others to ride the TransAm in credit card mode in the 
summer of 2002. What you interpret the AR to be depends a lot on what your 
intentions and riding are. Any time you start to ride places, distances or 
terrain differently your outlook will change how you view different bikes.

I didn't need  much baggage for the TransAm but the daily mileage 
(including through Kansas) took the XO well out of its "do-it-all" element 
and my RB-1 stock geometry "close enough" fit was OK for sporty rides less 
than 4-5 hours, not more than that. I was anticipating 6-10 hours riding 
each day.

With my XO and my RB-1 disqualified, I talked to Grant about options. My 
long for my height legs don't fit stock seat tube/ top tube production 
geometries well. He was cool about the Riv Road for my needs and positioned 
the AR as being much refined from but still towards my XO's envelope and 
brought up the in-stock Atlantis as a tour load bike. He agreed that it 
would be a good solution but after the cross country ride I would have a 
bike of a little heavier of tubing than my regular riding made necessary 
and he mentioned a second production model,  the Rambouillet. Both of these 
production models fell between my XO and RB, as well as RBW's AR and Road 
models.

When the Audax-inspired Rambouillet arrived it and the Atlantis covered a 
wide range of cycling. Grant advised saddlebag loading and a Carradice 
Nelson Longflap as about as big as you would want to carry on the 
Rambouillet, the Atlantis obviously more capable of burden. It was intended 
for long rides with light provisioning, frame fixtures telling the story; 
three bottle cages, single (fender) eyelets on front and rear dropouts, no 
rack eyelets on the fork, a pair of inboard threaded rack mounts on the 
seat stays. This lead to some odd combination fender/rear rack long leg 
installations and discussions about P-clamp short leg rear racks. It came 
with 33.3mm tires which fit under fenders, without them tires (advertised 
as) 38mm would fit

I mounted fenders and used a Bagman saddle support for the Nelson Longflap 
and headed west across the country. At times I was carried more than 
advised and handling suffered a bit but overall it was so great of a ride 
with that loading that I rode it for twenty years and in some different 
circumstances before I had enough observations of shortcomings I 
incorporated specifically in a custom that accurately addressed them, 
namely more tire, more balanced distribution of F-R weight of loaded 
bike+rider, and access to bag while riding. 

In April of 2012 a group of RBW owners met in Cumberland, MD to ride the 
GAP. Warm sunny weather that Friday but a N'orEaster was threatening the 
coast, many possible weather permutations and overnighting in Confluence, 
PA motivated me to carry more on the Rambouillet so I added a small 
rando-style front bag supported by a TA front rack with P-clamps. The front 
load enhanced the bike's inherent wheel flop, a product of HTA + offset and 
overweighting of the steering. Folks can do any outfitting they want to any 
bike and suffer what doesn't work too well if utility (or fashion) 
outweighs the intrinsic goodness of a bike's basic handling. You can start 
with any old $100 used bike from Marketplace, Craigslist or the 'Bay if 
utter utility outweighs handling.

When imagining the grail, idealization of its perfection glorifies it and 
motivates its quest but that leads to disappointment when the realized 
thing doesn't live up to its objectification. You have to begin with 
parameters to avoid rationalizations once you have it in hand. I built a 
mountain bike that way and in the time it took me to  collect, save and 
toil to build it, suspension evolution rendered its hardtail frame second 
tier on the trail, no matter how much effort and skill were applied. OEM 
box bikes were better on the trail in the hands of riders much more novice 
than me. It almost fully funded my Rambouillet when I sold it.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 9:50:18 AM UTC-4 Sean Steinle wrote:

> I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I honestly can't find 
> much about the All Rounder, in the way of ride reports, reviews, etc. It 
> seems to be a Holy Grail bike for several, and I'm curious, is it simply 
> the fact that they're rare and hard to find now, or is there truly 
> something special about it? 
>
> I remember Grant talking about the old Bridgestones in an article I came 
> across, and his sentiment was essentially 'They're fine bikes, but they 
> don't stack up against Rivs'. At least part of his reasoning was that he'd 
> continued to refine with Rivendell, and the improvements were drastic 
> enough that he felt the Rivs were in a different league. This makes me 
> wonder if Grant would 

Re: [RBW] Re: cycling attire for cold rain

[ascpgh]

Neoprene's closed cell structure works for immersion/water sports by body 
heat warming the trapped moisture. Yes hard to put on once wet, worse is 
how it begins to smell from being ever-wet. Over enough time the oils in 
perspiration oxidize or rancidify. Paddlers have all sorts of secret 
potions to unstink their neoprene wet gear and are careful to clean before 
the fatty acid breakdown of the neoprene begins. 

I rode an unintentional century in October, meeting friends of my wife's 
who were beginning the GAP/C in Pittsburgh. It was cooler (low 50s-high 
40s) and wetter than presumed but they had some emotional let down for this 
start of their beautiful trip and a few minor but necessary mechanical 
touch-ups that kept me riding with them beyond getting through the sort of 
complicated urban portion of the trail. They planned their first night at 
Linden Hall near Dawson and I bid farewell to them at the road crossing 
there and rode home.

What I had for my hands worked great: a pair of wool liners from my old 
leather Army gloves with a super basic Gore Tex mitten shells I got at REI. 

Since it was intermittently heavy rain I wore my Ventile anorak, a mid 
weight merino sweater from a garage sale over a Riv Wooly LS jersey knit 
crew and a Smartwool SS T-shirt. I wore my trust Pearl Izumi Amphib tights 
and shoe covers to round things out.  Might have been a bit over dressed, 
but I was able to unlayer/uncover as conditions allowed and I was in better 
shape for the duration. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 12:20:06 PM UTC-4 Touriste-Routier wrote:

> Neoprene can work well, but the danger is you get wet from perspiration, 
> since it doesn't breathe.  Wet isn't a problem per se, but if you get cold 
> from being wet, that is another story.  Of course you'll be cold and wet 
> without proper gear too...
>
> The biggest problem I had with my neoprene cyclocross gloves (all winter 
> gloves actually), is trying to put them back on with sweaty hands after 
> needing to remove them (stops, repairs, etc.).  Lesson learned, I always 
> ride with spare gloves on winter rides.  
>
> Brian Ignatin
> Pineville, PA  USA
>
> On Wednesday, March 22, 2023 at 9:11:15 AM UTC-4 a spen wrote:
>
>> As a cold weather cyclist in Maine in the 80's, with Minnesota and the 
>> Appalachian mountains more recently, I'll add to the OP's revelation 
>> regarding neoprene that a set of neoprene pogies (or bar mitts) on the 
>> outside, coupled with wool gloves on the inside, gets me through everything 
>> from 40 degrees and rainy, to -20 and breezy. I simply match the 
>> thickness/warmth of the inner wool gloves or mitts to the conditions, and 
>> if it's 50 with wind and rain, just pogies alone will keep my paws warm and 
>> toasty.  I've experimented with all manner of thick and clumsy arctic 
>> military mitts (compliments of my time spent in Uncle Sam's Navy) to boiled 
>> wool mitts (compliments of my time spent on a Maine "lobsta boat") and 
>> found an outer layer neoprene pogie supplemented with the aforementioned 
>> woolies underneath provide the greatest comfort & flexibility for a range 
>> of temps and conditions while on my ride.
>>
>> Al - VA
>>
>> On Tuesday, March 21, 2023 at 6:54:45 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>>> This by the way, but here in usually very dry ABQ, NM it has been 
>>> raining off and on for a few days and the humidity during my afternoon ride 
>>> was over 70% which mean that 45*F + wind felt much colder than at 35%. But 
>>> a wool jersey + a wool + nylon cycling jacket kept me over-warm (those 
>>> wool + nylon panel jackets are very warm indeed, I find).
>>>
>>> Usually at 45* I can get by with a very thinly lined cycling shell over 
>>> said jersey and may have to open the pit zips.
>>>
>>> Over and out.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 21, 2023 at 1:33 PM Toshi Takeuchi  wrote:
>>>
 That is a great idea. The rain/air would exchange heat far less than 
 the ocean, so I would imagine that even if you are wet underneath that you 
 would remain quite toasty. 

 Toshi


 On Mon, Mar 20, 2023 at 8:32 PM Jason Fuller  
 wrote:

> That's interesting, I might give some a shot this spring. I get the 
> feeling that much colder than low 40's would be too cold for most 
> Neoprene 
> options but I don't really know. Usually when it's 45+F I am pretty happy 
> with wool and a shell that's at least waterproof enough to keep the 
> majority of water out - not much ends up being truly waterproof in those 
> conditions.  I can certainly believe that the water-going folks are onto 
> something though. 
>
> On Friday, 17 March 2023 at 07:39:34 UTC-7 Jim S. wrote:
>
>> Folks on this board might already have this information, but it was a 
>> revelation to me.
>>
>> It was 48 and heavily raining on, Tuesday I think, riding from Goleta 
>> to Oxnard, CA. We (my son and I) were 

[RBW] Re: Long ride on a Sam Hillborne

[ascpgh]

Very cool ride Paul. So often destinations make together a chain of miles 
you never thought you'd compile or set out on purpose to ride. Deb of Rivet 
Cycleworks is clearly a mural art fan and often shows them as points along 
her rides documented on her IG feed. 

That fifth picture appears to be by Dan Kitchener, the UK rattle can 
artist/muralist. He did his first US mural 
 a couple 
miles from me on the side of a bar that had recently renovated and had an 
big blank side facing the side street intersection. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Sunday, March 5, 2023 at 8:19:35 PM UTC-5 Paul in Dallas wrote:

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At least it was a long ride for me.
>
> This was last Monday, February 27.
>
>
> I had planned on 40 miles for this ride.
>
> It was one of those days that weather, the bike, energy levels, motivation 
> and I guess the stars alignments all synched up.
>
> My missus called a few hours into it and wanted to meet on the trail and 
> ride some too.
>
> I already had 30 miles when I meet her and we did 21 together so I had 51 
> on arrival back home
> which would have been a good day for me as 40 or so is usually one of my 
> long rides.
>
> But I decided to go for more on my own so I had a snack and hopped back on 
> the Sam.
>
> When I hit 60 miles and didn't feel like stopping.
>
> Why not try for 70 I thought?
>
> At 70 I thought I'll do 3 more to commemorate an upcoming advancing 
> further into geezer hood birthday.
>
> So it was a long but satisfying unplanned 73 mile ride.
>
> On the route I took I rode south from the northern portion of Dallas 
> county to downtown Dallas, through downtown to Deep Ellum ( that's a funky 
> and artsy area east of downtown).
> That area has lots of wall murals.
>
> Then I picked up the Santa Fe trail that leads to White Rock Lake.
>
> I rode the While Rock Lake trails for a while, met up with my Missus and 
> repeated some more of the White Rock trails.
>
> After taking off again from home I rode some of the northern trails and 
> then began to zig zag through familiar neighborhoods to rack up extra miles.
>
> My  Sam was very comfortable on the entire ride.
>
> It sports 700 x 43 Gravel King SS+ tires that help a lot on the bumpy 
> streets of the area.
>
> I was tired at the end and also the next day but the next day my missus 
> wanted to ride to the library in 85 degree temps so we got in 10 more 
> miles. 
> I think that 10 miles in the heat helped the soreness.
>
> Some might think upright bars would not work for that sort of distance but 
> they worked fine for me.
>
> At any rate at my age I felt it was a bit of an epic ride.
>
> The attached photos were taken at stops along the way.
>
> Paul in Dallas 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Bikepacking Essentials: On Finding Goldilocks

[ascpgh]

Lots of nice intellectual exercises for the problem of tent line anchors 
when in deep sand once you reach the conclusion that regular ones don't and 
won't work.

Climbers in the snow use flukes as do recovery specialists, often in gangs 
to distribute force from the primary line. I've seen a crew moving a Land 
Rover mired in a peat bog doing this with five or six. 

Considering the brevity of mass necessary for bike camping something like a 
wide rectangle of cloth, short ends connected by a loop, that you fill with 
sand, in a pit you've dug in the sand, then buried in its filled shape with 
a rope making a yoke between the two ends loops. 

These could be bandanas with shoelace (holds temporary knots better than 
accessory cord) and actually be less weight and bulk than regular stakes 
yet alone the screw and fluke gizmos the internet will sell you. 

If surprised and unprepared in the setting of sand otherwise, I've found 
that a branch, buried in the sand works pretty dang well. The more 
convoluted and leafy, the better it interacts with the sand and holds both 
steady and surge loading.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, March 1, 2023 at 6:44:31 PM UTC-5 John Rinker wrote:

> Moving this over from Johnny's 'Fitting the Hunqapillar' thread and in 
> response to Jay's inquiry about my essential packing list for touring. 
>
> Of course, some of it depends on the nature of the tour itself: climate, 
> remoteness, and goals for the trip. For example, on the Great Divide, I 
> packed my tenkara rod and for the Cabo loop, I swapped it out for a mask 
> and snorkel. When I rode the Annapurna Circuit I didn't pack shelter or 
> kitchen as I stayed in tea houses and ate dahl bat. 
>
> As examples, here are packing lists from the two very different trips 
> mentioned above. 
>
> The Great Divide (2018) 
> 
>
> The Cabo Loo (2023) 
> 
>
> Sadly, the photos are the same, but the Cabo Loop list is more 
> representative of what I've learned that I'd rather not be without on any 
> journey. 
>
> The clothing in the Great Divide list was basically cut in half before I 
> left- where there are 2s, I kept 1. I did retain both pairs of sandals- a 
> small luxury after a long day in the saddle. Neither did I end up carrying 
> so many water bottles, and I have since swapped out the MSR gravity filter 
> for a Steri-Pen UV filter. 
>
> Didn't take my full spice kit on the Baja Divide because I'd planned to 
> live on fish tacos the whole time (very tricky in the mountains!). I no 
> longer take the Nikon as my iPhone 8 takes fine snaps, I leave the Garmin 
> GPS as I use GaiaGPS on my device, and I've swapped out my tripod stool for 
> a lighter Japanese folding stool. 
>
> I love my Big Agnes CopperSpur tent but wanted to spend some time getting 
> good at setting up my Mountain Laurel Designs Trailstar tarp in the deep 
> sand of Cabo where tent stakes are useless. 
>
> As far as essentials, hmm? My Marmot sleeping bag, a water bottle, my tool 
> roll, down jacket, wool undies, bandanas, rain gear, and camp slops.
>
> Anyways, that's my thinking on packing on wilderness-focused tours. 
>
> I'd love to hear what you've gleaned from your experience and what you 
> consider your essentials when heading into the mountains.
>
> Cheers, John
>

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[RBW] Re: Front Derailleur Suggestions

[ascpgh]

Shaped inner plates hate wide chainring choices, they're made for corporate 
combinations to assure legal counsel of perfect shifting with their 
derailleurs, shifters cassette combos and other spec. What I found when 
building up my wide double (46/30) rando with RH cranks was that with all 
the new FDs to try, my mechanic found the SunTour Superbe from my bag of 
nearly NOS FD options fit and worked the best. Plus it doesn't try to hide 
that it is made of metal, it is bright silver.

A couple shots in album form:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/eSqnCSt3WxrtfmkCA

Tail of the cage not hitting the right chain stay, limiting how close to 
the 46t ring it could be, chain line when on on the 30t not below the 
intended interface of an origami inner plate sculpted for a very narrow 
range of OEM chainring size combinations and a width of parallel cage 
plates that permits operation across several cogs before trimming is 
necessary. I'm quite happy with it.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 12:45:08 PM UTC-5 mmille...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I've been having a heckuva time getting my front derailleur to go from 
> little to big without hopping over. Eventually, if I talked sweetly to it 
> and said Hail Mary three times, it would usually settle. Even took it to an 
> experience mechanic. He also lowered it, then slowly kept raising it up, 
> and also kept working the limit screw. A fraction of a turn was difference 
> between not reaching the big ring, or going over!
>
> It's a White Industries VBC with 46-28. FD is IRD compact triple Aplina. 
> Friction Microshift thumbie. I think it's bottom pull. 
>
> [image: IMG_2391 Medium.jpeg]
>
> Any suggestions for different FD? May need different chain rings because 
> of that big jump, but if I do that, I may be best off buying something else 
> and selling these.
>
> Thanks,
> Matt
>

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[RBW] Re: A formal request to one of you...

[ascpgh]

Bill, 

Good thing that car's a rental. Yanking ice-covered car doors will result 
in the door opening but often minus its seals. 

Ice like that is an amazing precipitation, saw lots of it in the Ozarks 
where we were on that line between classic snow winter lands and those that 
just get cold and rainy. I had some OG golf shoes (metal spikes) for the 
worst days to be able to walk to work and the grocery when surfaces were 
coated in that glass ice. Urban crampons. Natty black and white saddle shoe 
oxford uppers. I did make some studded tires out of a set of worn TriCross 
tires with metal screws but that was still a big gamble in that sort of 
stuff if it isn't flat. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh (66°F)
On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 9:20:26 AM UTC-5 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Leah
>
> Much more importantly, I'm in Michigan this week and it's my first time to 
> see an ice storm.  It's bizarre!  I'm in the snow often, and I'm not 
> unfamiliar to low temperatures, but I've never experienced an ice storm.  
> For other sheltered softies like me, and ice storm (to me) is when it 
> rains, but it's cold enough on the ground that everything gets wet, nothing 
> dries, and the water freezes faster than it can run off.  Everything that 
> is not salted and not warm is freaking COATED with ice!  It's weird!  Every 
> tree has every branch encased in a thick later of ice.  My rental car is 
> coated with a thick bumpy but transparent sheet of ice.  I have to yank 
> hard to get the door open and break the sheet.  I feel like I'm on a 
> wilderness adventure, here in western Wayne County.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> Wayne County Michigan
>
> On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 5:31:02 AM UTC-8 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> Woah, woah, wait. I went to bed with no power in an ice storm and woke up 
>> to this thread. Bill, did you get your B 68 - and maybe more than one? And 
>> JOE! What bike did you get? Say it’s a Platypus!
>>
>> On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 4:11:53 AM UTC-5 Garth wrote:
>>
>>> I think this is perfectly legit request on Bill's part. People sell off 
>>> parts from complete bikes for all sorts of reasons all the time. So I see 
>>> this basically as WTB/ISO post. 
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Lightweight wheels question: J bend vs straight pull (Ritchey vs Hunt)

[ascpgh]

What I've always wondered about straight pull vs. J-bend spokes is the 
risk/benefit comparison. 

The fixtures necessary to create on the straight pull hub that receive 
force concentrated by the head of the spoke need to be more robust than a 
conventional drilled hub flange. They have greater contact surface and 
tangential distribution of energy gained through the contact of the spokes' 
J-shape, particularly the outbound, against the hub flange material. The 
straight pull hub must transfer all energy directly by only the head of the 
spoke. 

Seems that to make the spoke head fixtures on a straight pull hub body you 
must ensure enough material for strength and avoid stress risers by design 
that a weight comparison isn't the highlight. Weight savings at the hub are 
much less impressive to me than those outward on the circumference. 

For load bearing parts the importance of experience weighs very well 
against garage innovations. Shimano or Campagnolo know some things about 
hubs institutionally and would not focus on any single aspect of a hub 
design unless able to address the rest of their corporate secret soup. 
Having lived through the CNC '90s in a bike shop I've seen lot of boutique 
maker parts after the fail and the wrath of owners unhappy their money 
didn't buy them out of being concerned for simple failure such as axle of 
spindle breaks. Whether from less than professional machine work, material 
selection or tolerances not as tight as they should have been, I saw those 
things come back in parts.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Monday, January 16, 2023 at 6:44:42 PM UTC-5 Nick Payne wrote:

> Here's pair I built myself - Newmen Fade 28h thru axle hubs, Light Bicycle 
> AR28 (22mm internal width) rims, Sapim CX-Ray straight pull spokes. Weight 
> 1380g. They've been perfectly reliable and have remained dead true in the 
> 18 months I've been riding them. All-up cost of the parts was about $AU900 
> (~$US600).
> [image: PXL_20210608_022518518.jpg]
> [image: PXL_20210608_022600960.jpg]
> [image: PXL_20210608_022635313.jpg]
>
> Nick
>

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[RBW] Re: bottom bracket toubleshooting trivia

[ascpgh]

Your NOS BBs have really nice high quality bearings. I would imagine that 
the tolerances related to a mild load on those bearings that accumulate 
from the bearings themselves in the cylinder, the cartridge installation 
cups' receptacle ends, their threading and the frame's BB threading when 
all torqued to spec add up enough to produce some perceived interference to 
silk smooth finger rotation. 

BBs take a pretty big load in use and the bearings (of units that become 
legend like yours) are not particularly delicate but superior enough in 
precision that you can  feel some resistance prior to what break in will 
produce. They ought to be fine. 

When I replaced the Phil Wood BB in my Rambouillet with an SKF for a 
shorter spindle when going from triple to wide double I was stunned by the 
drag the SKF's seal system put on finger rotation and installed crank free 
rotation after spinning them. Not because of a single outer rubber grommet 
but the labyrinths of each end and lubricant inside. No grinding or 
destructive feeling load felt, I built enough box bikes to know how a 
cruddy BB feels by the intermittence of resistance or that grinding feeling 
in the 360° of rotation. By free tune up time after the sale some of the 
most mundane no-brand BBs were running smoothly and kept doing their job 
for a reasonable if not notable duration given how primitive and cheap they 
appeared to be.

Hubs act the same way to finger rotation or wheel free spinning after 
installation. I came to dislike Shimano Parallax architecture hubs because 
of their rubber cone seals, connected to axle nut, engaged and rotated in a 
large diameter but thin groove on the end of he hub body. Lots of drag on 
top of the tactile sense that they were easily overcome by dust, water or 
mud.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsbugrh

On Sunday, January 15, 2023 at 1:36:11 PM UTC-5 Scott wrote:

> Hey, Bunch:
>
> Pinging the group's knowledge for input/feedback on an issue I'm having 
> with an install of a new cartridge style BB in a new frame.
>
> I'm building a new Atlantis and Gus. I installed a new BB (Shimano XTR 
> UN91) in Atlantis and torqued to spec. It's butterlicious smooth. Installed 
> cranks and gave them a spin. It's what every man, woman, and child wants. 
>
> I installed same BB (also new) in Gus and tightened to spec. When I turn 
> the spindle by hand it is not smooth (definitely some resistance and a tad 
> sticky) like the one I installed in Atlantis or an uninstalled one. Why is 
> that? I checked it before install, and it was butter smooth. I uninstalled 
> it from Gus, and it spins butter smooth. I reinstalled main body section to 
> spec, and it is butter smooth, no change. When I install the opposing cup 
> (Shimano calls it an adapter), at this point is when I begin to notice a 
> notable change in spindle rotation smoothness.
>
> I've ensured proper shell widths. And I've ensured shell/cartridge faces 
> are clean and blemish-free.
>
> Of note, opposing cup spins freely during install for about one third the 
> way to full seat. From there it spins freely part of rotation and not 
> freely otherwise. I can turn it by hand still using splined-tool, but there 
> is definitely resistance during part of the rotation. After I can't go any 
> further by hand, I fully seat with torque wrench.
>
> Could it be that the threads on either side of the shell are not exactly 
> coplanar, since threads are not continuous from one side of shell to the 
> other?
> It shouldn't be a shell facing issue, because the opposing cup doesn't 
> interface with shell face.
>
> Confounding to me. There isn't much to installing a new cartridge style BB 
> into a new frame...screw it in. That's the problem, in part. There's 
> nothing to correct with install technique. I'd love to be wrong and get it 
> butter smooth like one in my Atlantis, for example.
>
> Please, share your thoughts as to what the source of issue may be and 
> recommended remedy!
>
> Scott in (I want it to be spring, summer, and fall) Montana
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: FS: Rambouillet 58cm Orange

[ascpgh]

Sorry the Rambouillet didn't fit you well, despite Grant's input on sizing. 
It was increasingly under square (top tube shorter than seat tube) up 
through the sizes. Your 58 has a 57cm TT, my 62's is 59cm. I think Grant 
was trying to incorporate into frame spec what is often "fit" with seat 
post setback, stem length, handlebar reach, etc. without excluding sizes 
and shapes of riders. 

I'm the opposite of your phenotype, too long of leg/short of torso for my 
height and the Rambouillet fit me like a glove and deflected the need for a 
custom for 20 years. 

Someone's in for a blast from the past sorry it had to come from this 
bike's envelope just being outside your perfect fit margins. Sometimes 
wider accessibility comes at a cost and trying to fit all who come isn't at 
the cost of ride quality. I know it was for me when looking around for my 
Rambouillet, all that sloped TT "fastback" foolishness was the meme. Brands 
made 3-4 sizes in a model and LBS would bodge fit with stem and post 
choices.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 5:37:30 PM UTC-5 bunny...@gmail.com wrote:

> Early 2000's Rivendell Rambouillet 58cm frame (Grant from Rivendell swears 
> this is my size, but I'm a corgi with a long torso and short legs  ), 
> Orange and Cream finish, lots of small paint dings, some touch-up paint 
> from a previous owner, small top tube dent. Everything works great and it 
> still looks stunning, but it was once somebody's daily driver and shows 
> appropriate wear. 
>
> The Rundown: 
>
>- 58cm Rivendell Rambouillet Frame/Fork
>- Mavic Open Pro Rims on Ultegra 6500 Hubs (32h) (12-26 cassette)
>- Ultegra 6500 Deraillures with 3x8 Bar End Shifters
>- Sugino XD Triple Crank 48-38-26
>- Panaracer Pasela 35c folding bead tires with maybe 50-60 miles.
>- TRP RRL Brake Levers
>- Soma Highway One bars (42cm)*BUT I also have some Nitto Noodle 
>bars in 42cm. take your pick!*
>- Nitto Cold forged 7cm stem (Tallux? It's pretty tall)   *BUT I also 
>have the same model in 10-11cm. take your pick!*
>- I'll also toss in an 8 speed 11-32 cassette and derailleur hanger 
>extender. I ran that for a while and while shifting was not quite as 
>awesome, having a 26 x 32 gear was nice.
>- Oh, there is also a set of beat up SKS fenders that I will include.
>
>
> $1,600. + actual shipping cost. I'd, of course, prefer a local sale, but I 
> can ship to a loving home.
>
> Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/benadrian/albums/72177720305079680
>
>  
> Why am I selling? I'd want to know as a buyer.
> The size is a little big for me. It has never felt quite right. The ride 
> is great. It glides over the road beautifully. Still ,I never was able to 
> make myself comfortable. I just want to try other things.
>
> Cheers!
> Ben Adrian
>

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[RBW] Re: Last ride of 2022

[ascpgh]

No pictures but I rode home after work about 9pm Saturday in the rainy 40°s.

Andy Cheatham 
Pittsburgh

On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 4:59:57 PM UTC-5 DavidP wrote:

> What was your last ride for the year?
>
> We've been hit with an unseasonably warm spell and this afternoon temps 
> were in the 50s. I went exploring and found a spot I hadn't been to before; 
> not a bad way to end the year.
>
> [image: GR001-004600_bartlett-1800.jpg]
>
> Looking forward to the first ride of 2023!
>
> -Dave
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Orange Ram touchup paint

[ascpgh]

RDS rear dropout snapped on mine too.
[image: F14219F9-AF5B-4249-9A4B-266ACC20D2DC.jpeg]
Grainy thumbnail pic, file acuity lost in software updates, you get the 
idea though. Both sides replaced by Rivendell, JB reshot the paint. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Monday, December 26, 2022 at 1:33:58 AM UTC-5 cdres...@gmail.com wrote:

> I should have mentioned that a few years ago the rd dropout cracked and I 
> took it back to Riv who had it re-brazed in Sacto and then sent to 
> a paint matcher to repaint the repaired area who was obviously really good 
> at this and I could not see any change in the color.
>
> Chris
> Boise
> On Friday, December 23, 2022 at 3:29:45 AM UTC-7 ascpgh wrote:
>
>> Small blems on an orange Rambouillet may be cosmetically reduced from 
>> attracting attention using nail enamel in a good color match. As others 
>> have said, the pearlescent orange finish was a three layer build to achieve 
>> the result and is a harrowing repair to execute with continuity to the 
>> surrounding original finish. 
>>
>> That complexity of finish is why my Ram and its beausavage (when things 
>> get beyond Grant's "beausage") has not been renewed and the sum quoted to 
>> do so by JB and others was put toward a new frame and fork. 
>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>> (where the 30-40 mph wind gusts and temperature drop just happened like a 
>> switch was thrown)
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 3:14:57 PM UTC-5 cdres...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Checked some older postings and cyclofriend who recommended Boyds 
>>> Roadser Florida Orange Pearl but appears to be out of stock. Anyone tried 
>>> Boyd's Orange Pearl Enamel?
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Orange Ram touchup paint

[ascpgh]

Small blems on an orange Rambouillet may be cosmetically reduced from 
attracting attention using nail enamel in a good color match. As others 
have said, the pearlescent orange finish was a three layer build to achieve 
the result and is a harrowing repair to execute with continuity to the 
surrounding original finish. 

That complexity of finish is why my Ram and its beausavage (when things get 
beyond Grant's "beausage") has not been renewed and the sum quoted to do so 
by JB and others was put toward a new frame and fork. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
(where the 30-40 mph wind gusts and temperature drop just happened like a 
switch was thrown)

On Tuesday, December 20, 2022 at 3:14:57 PM UTC-5 cdres...@gmail.com wrote:

> Checked some older postings and cyclofriend who recommended Boyds Roadser 
> Florida Orange Pearl but appears to be out of stock. Anyone tried Boyd's 
> Orange Pearl Enamel?
>

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[RBW] Re: New Bike Day - 2002 Size 60 Rambouillet

[ascpgh]

Sweet, Mike! You've joined the subset of RBW OG riders and yes, orange is 
the fastest color. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Friday, December 16, 2022 at 8:19:24 AM UTC-5 Michael Ullmer wrote:

> I haven't had a proper Riv for about 5 years and had been itching for a 
> simple, rackless bike to take out on mid-day rides with no destination in 
> mind. I picked this up from a seller on Pinkbike. Aside from the 
> wheels/drivetrain, I've switched up everything else about the build. I 
> especially like the aesthetic of the lugged stem/seatpost with the lugs of 
> the frame, so many lugs! Frame has the expected paint rubs and an 
> unexpected small dent in the top tube, but hey, beausage! Now I don't have 
> to be so precious with it. I'm very curious how it will ride compared with 
> my 650b Rando Fitz. 
>
> It's currently kitted out with 48 Noodles, but may switch to Mustache 
> which I'm finding I like more and more. I've got 35mm Bon Jon Pass tires in 
> there now with very little fender room to spare. I may go with 32mm tires 
> and fender it up for the winter and put 35s back on for the summer. I think 
> the wheels are stock Dura Ace 9sp era hubs. The TA cranks are gorgeous, 
> though I'll likely switch them out for WI Road Cranks. I also haven't used 
> DT shifters in at least 10 years, so am excited to try out the Silver 
> Shifters on here.
>
> My ultimate plan is to build up a 700c SS wheelset with WI ENO Eccentric 
> hub. After seeing Will's blog post yesterday about his SS Roadini, my plans 
> solidified. Minneapolis is currently under 6" of fresh snow with single 
> digit temps in the forecast, so haven't gotten this out for a test ride yet.
>
> Mike in Minneapolis
>
> Pics here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/9zLj1t3dUEogv88a8
>

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[RBW] Re: Thanksgiving Morning Clem crash

[ascpgh]

I'm not fond of crash stories unless something good comes of them. Hope you 
have an uneventful and rapid recovery JIm. 

Was the traffic circle new-ish, well marked? 

Road paint is slick as goose grease when wet due to the little spheres that 
make it so reflective. There's so much that it is seems visually bright and 
shouty to drivers. Really seems to relegate the wet cyclists on the edge of 
the traffic lane as things to look out for. 

I cope with a number of intersections with this level of painted directives 
to all traffic. I treat them as mine fields if the slightest moisture is 
present.


Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, December 15, 2022 at 5:09:46 PM UTC-5 Jim Bronson wrote:

> Hi folks,
>
> Well we had a warm rainy Thanksgiving morning here in the greater Austin 
> area.  I thought it might be a good thing to go ride around for an hour or 
> so to try to burn a few calories before consuming several thousand and of 
> course as always for enjoyment.   Being a native (Western) Oregonian the 
> rain is rarely a problem for me so off I went.
>
> Well my ride came to an unfortunate end after about 5 miles exiting a 
> traffic circle.  I was taking a right to exit when the bike went right out 
> from under me as fast as I can ever remember one doing so.  I never jerked 
> the handlebars or anything, it was just the same smooth steady motion that 
> I have used 20 or 30 times before on this same traffic circle.  But this 
> time I was down on the ground in a flash.
>
> Being that my Clem is in stock configuration and is a 65, I had a fair 
> distance to fall.  Unfortunately I broke my fibia and the fracture extends 
> to the bottom of my knee joint.  I won't be needing surgery but I cannot 
> put any weight on it for 6 weeks minimum.  We'll see what the orthopedic 
> surgeon says after that.
>
> The net effect of all this is that I'm thinking of putting drops on my 
> Clem when I get back to riding again.  I know it isn't how Grant intended 
> it, but the extremely upright position of the Clem now has me thinking 
> maybe it's not so good to be so high in the air if I have another fall at 
> some point.  I know this is driven by fear, but, I've often thought of 
> "dropping my Clem" in the past and this may just be the push I need in 
> order to do it.
>
> I know this is the opposite of what people in their 50s are usually doing 
> but I am very comfortable riding drops and many days I will take my 650B 
> converted Road Standard for just that reason.  on this particular day I 
> took the Clem because I didn't want some rain-loosened sharp rock to 
> puncture the somewhat fragile Compass tires on my Road Standard.  
>
> So anyway.
> Prove me wrong!
> Drops for Clem 2022!
>
> -Jim
> austin suburbs, tx
>
> -- 
> --
> signature goes here
>

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[RBW] Re: Cockpit Quandaries - Friction bar ends for a new rider

[ascpgh]

Tendencies of cleaning, adjusting and using what's present versus replacing 
30 year old OEM parts with things you have, know or prefer may be genetic. 
People cannot help themselves if the trait is expressed.

I know thirty years is a long time for a bike sold as new to migrate the 
landscape but I did sell many of that model and color up the road from you. 
Those ratty RapidFire lower end shift units may have worked decently if 
curated by museum staff but more than half of those delivered had the lower 
button lever (stamped sheet metal) bent enough to interfere with the upper 
button inside an otherwise pristine looking bike box. The way they 
assembled the cockpit and placed it as tethered by the cables and housings 
secured to the frame and rear wheel was culprit.

The resulting slight upward bend of the lower RapidFire shifter lever 
produced either non function overlap or random bad shifting when an odd 
thumb angle would incrementally be enough displacement to interfere with 
the upper button lever's thumb pad. We would use a Crescent wrench on the 
back of the grey plastic button where a horizontal reinforcing bar was 
formed to bend the end of the lever and button back down and out of 
interference range of the upper one. This only got us through the initial 
warranty from the bike company since most of our bikes went to the woods 
unlike 80% of the era nationally. We also didn't have room to store all of 
the built bikes that had this factory and shipment problem. 

Besides the very frequent shipping damage, those RadpidFire shifters were 
strategically placed to be kneed into the same condition. Not to say these 
were low end parts as they were OEM on $500-600 bikes, just that they were 
an evolutionary step which for me could go back into the primordial ooze. 
Bridgestone and Kona called the emperor naked this one and stuck with 
things that work, not the latest stuff foisted on new bike buyers to beta 
test.

That black plastic housing was about as weatherproof as a ragtop CJ Jeep in 
a car wash, i.e. not the slightest. Worse than without the covers since 
they collected and stored muck right at the pot metal toothed parts, 
springs and pawls. 

Do what you know and what's best for your friend with her input. and your 
efforts I'm all about losing those detestable shifters. Those shifters, on 
that bike (and some RockHoppers) sold many MB-6s to comparison shoppers at 
our store.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Tuesday, November 29, 2022 at 1:04:09 PM UTC-5 Paul Clifton wrote:

> :) 
> Are y'all really asking me to defend why I'm upgrading a 30 year old bike 
> for a very good friend of mine? Sheesh.
>
> Of course I've gotten her input. Here's what she's said: 
>
>- "I want a bike like [your wife's] bike, with those handlebars." - 45 
>Clem L with Boscos (also a bit too big...)
>- "No way, I'm not spending that much money on a bike, and you better 
>not spend that much on a bike for me either." - We've all been there, and 
> I 
>won't, especially since Riv doesn't make a bike small enough for her. I'll 
>split the cost of a custom with her if she catches the bug and nothing 
> else 
>will do. :)
>- "My husband got me another bike from someone he works with, but I 
>just don't like the way it feels." - It's a 700c wheel bike with the seat 
>all the way down and the adjustable angle stem all the way up to get the 
>flat bars close enough for her to reach 'em so she's bent over riding it 
>like it has ape hangers on it. This has happened like 5 times.
>- "I mean, I've never ridden a bike that fits, so I have no idea what 
>kind of shifters I'll like. I just want a bike that's not a kids bike, and 
>that fits, so that I can put my foot on the ground when I stop." - I know 
>that that's not a criteria for what "fits", but it'll make her feel better 
>riding it, and she can raise the seat when she's ready.
>
> I'd love to have gotten her to ride it first, but I live in Arkansas and 
> she lives in Georgia. I did say that she's ridden my wife's 45cm Clem L, 
> and it was a smidge too big. I also mentioned that I know her PBH, so I 
> have a good idea of her saddle height, and this bike accommodates that with 
> some room to go shorter, so she can get it low enough to put a foot on the 
> ground. Finding a used (inexpensive) bike that's smaller than a 45 Clem L 
> and that "isn't a kids bike" is not easy, so when I found one, I asked her 
> if she liked the color, then I measured it when I checked it out, then I 
> bought it (and I didn't pay COVID prices on a vintage MTB either, even 
> though the asking price was obscene). 
>
> The seat height will work. She'll have about a fistful of seatpost 
> showing! If the reach is too short, I'll put on a longer stem. But I'm more 
> concerned that even with Albas, I'll need to find a shorter stem and it'll 
> impact the handling, so I may have to buy some Boscos, but I'm at least 
> holding 

[RBW] Re: front deraileur dilemma

[ascpgh]

When I converted my TA Zephyr to compact double (46/34) on my Rambouillet I 
switched to a shorter BB spindle that ostensibly set up the problem you 
described more than the reduced tooth count of your 42. RIng position means 
more on my Ram than their diameter. Mine, in a close double on a short 
spindle to reduce the Q-factor by the increased clearance of the big ring 
teeth and the right chain stay, is shifted with an improbable Mavic 860. A 
road racing pro's FD suited for large rings and a max range of 20 teeth.

I agree that on "full sized" chainring combinations, the tail of the FD 
cage has more involvement in physically engaging the chain during shifts 
but the ring size disparities mean nothing if the swing of the cage doesn't 
reach the rings as they are in relation to the seat tube because of the 
narrow Q-factor your bike has. I have a Coast 650B rando with many cues 
from my Rambouillet that has RH cranks (low Q) with 46/30 rings and the 
best suited FD when building up the bike came not off the shelf at the bike 
shop but from my drawer of curated models from the past. A Suntour Superbe 
Pro clearly intended for 53 and 42 adjusted nicely to the rings and has the 
operating range to move the cain to the inner position without concern for 
dropping the chain operated with bar end shifters instead of indexed.

The other thing not yet mentioned is the RIvendell BB drop (amount below 
the line from front hub to rear hub of the BB). Greater BB drop closes the 
angle between the seat tube and chain stay, making the interference of the 
FD cage's tail and the chain stay sooner than a bike with less BB drop. 

Andy Cheatham
On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 5:50:52 PM UTC-5 chrisd wrote:

> Decided to switch to a 42 big ring from a 44 on a Ritchey Logic triple CS 
> (44/34/26) on my Rambouillet and tried a Skeleton Key FD but can't shift to 
> the granny. My old shimano FD tail barely cleared the chainstay with the 44 
> so any older derailers won't work. Riv says the Skeleton works on triples 
> but it's probably something to do with geo on the current models.Need a 
> short cage FD. Thought of a mountain FD.  My brifters are old Campy so 
> don't have to worry about indexing. Any suggestions?
>

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Re: [RBW] Using Your Rivendell Vs. Being Precious: A Spectrum

[ascpgh]

My Rambouillet has been up and down the GAP/C in parts and its entirety 
numerous times and in all sorts of conditions. If you zoom in on its 
picture on my post you'll see the scarfing on the right seat stay that came 
from a person knocking it from a stable pedal prop along a brick planter 
then trying to stop the fall grabbing one end of the handlebar, guiding the 
tube on a slow, weighted downward drag along the top edge of the brick. 
Just paint, no metal damaged. Very unlikely to cosmetically repair without 
a major repaint, I rattle can clear coated the bare metal and keep an eye 
on it. Riding leaves marks and I do ride it. 

The non stock ivory blocking on the rear end of my Rambouillet is how I 
recovered from the baring of metal to re-braze the brake bridge when it 
broke loose a couple years back. A local builder put me back together but 
the stark area and margins to cover called for more than the previous plan 
used on the irregular scratches. I found a rattle can match for the ivory 
color, primed, painted and clear coated the area after a good surface prep. 
Black Sharpie to border the amrgin of the Ivory and Creamsicle. 

Each violation of the paint finish triggered a "repaint!" reflex in my 
mind, built over the time spent searching for receiving, riding, 
appreciating and ultimately valuing my ownership of a retired model. The 
other side of my brain adds these things up and said to me that after a 
driveside rear dropout replacement and prepaint, the events that have 
elicited that return to stock condition response would add up to a very 
nice custom frame and fork, which it did, by not executing on impulse. 

My Ram's still a head turner and not compromised from its original form 
other than how it's looking these days, which is care for and ridden. A lot.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Thursday, November 10, 2022 at 9:20:00 AM UTC-5 brianmark...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Like Jason, I paid a somewhat embarrassing amount for a repaint on my 
> Hillborne, but I'm not overly-finicky about it. I'm careful at bike racks 
> and when I lean it against something, but I don't wipe it down with a 
> diaper either. Also, the painter lost my headbadge, so I put this Gonza one 
> on (i found it on ebay, and am an aviation nerd; it also sorta works as an 
> homage to the Bleriot). When I put that on, my hand slipped when the epoxy 
> was already on it, and I had to keep it a bit high on the headtube rather 
> than centered, but I figured a slight imperfection is fine. Also notice the 
> bike is pretty dirty- I just rode the GAP and C from Pittsburgh to DC. 
> I'll clean my chain and wipe my rims down, but that's about it. I use this 
> bike as my go-to, and I don't mind locking it up as the town I live in 
> isn't a hub of bike theft. If I still lived in Eugene, OR though, I'd be 
> more cautious leaving it locked up for really any period of time, and would 
> be more inclined to ride a "beater" for library trips etc. 
>
> [image: badge.JPG]
>
> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 11:07:02 AM UTC-5 Mark C wrote:
>
>> It is interesting to read how much our individual situations vary. I'm 
>> lucky to live where bike theft isn't a big deal. I know one friend who had 
>> a bike stolen in the past many years. He left it unlocked on the his back 
>> porch. Then another friend spotted someone riding it on the rail trail and 
>> got it returned. I'm not meaning to minimize others situations; it sounds 
>> awful having to worry about theft all the time and having to carry bulky 
>> locks.
>>
>> I pick up strays (bikes) way too often and have been trying to get rid of 
>> extras lately, but I've kept a few beater bikes around. It is fun to ride 
>> the old Raleigh 3 speed once in a while. Until I got my Rosco Platypus I 
>> also put a lot  of time on my old mountain bikes on my daily neighborhood 
>> rides. Now the Rosco gets almost all the riding. When I finally get some 
>> wider rims (so that I can get wider tires), the Rosco can pretty much 
>> replace my mountain bikes. 
>>
>> But someone else mentioned the big, big deal for me that doesn't seem to 
>> impact most people - road salt. It is hilly here and they really cover the 
>> roads with salt. I keep at least one sacrificial bike for those days, and 
>> even then try to stay out of the resulting salt river on the roads. If it 
>> weren't for that, I'd intended my Rosco to effectively be my beater bike, 
>> plus my do-everything bike. Still, it is just fun to have some variety, 
>> though the bar for fun bikes has been raised since the Rosco arrived.
>>
>> On Wednesday, November 9, 2022 at 9:25:22 AM UTC-5 Marc Irwin wrote:
>>
>>> I've often wondered how frustrating it is for Grant.  So many of his 
>>> bikes end up as garage ornaments.   I've tried to explain to interested 
>>> people that the fancy lugs and paint get our attention, but the geometry, 
>>> ride and handling are what keep us on the bikes.   My '87 Trek has nice 
>>> lugs and looks cool,  

Re: [RBW] Re: Fender size for a Rambouiller

[ascpgh]

I finally settled on RH stampede Pass tires on Velocity Synergy rims under 
Honjo H-45 fenders and Paul center mount Racer brakes. Been riding that 
Rambouillet on all roads that way for years. 
Fendered '02 Rambouillet on 700x32 


Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Tuesday, October 18, 2022 at 8:20:13 PM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> IF you can get those wider fenders inside those brakes. My memory of 
> messing with this on my Romulus is pretty vague now but it wasn't the 
> easiest project I've ever embarked on. 
>
> On Tuesday, October 18, 2022 at 4:28:22 PM UTC-7 Jon Richardson wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Peter!  
>>
>> Appreciate everyone's help and advice.  Looks like 28 or maybe 30s if 
>> they are true to size and 41 to 45mm fenders should work.  Guess the Jack 
>> Browns are nice weather gravel for the Ram.
>>
>>  Original message 
>> From: Peter White  
>> Date: 10/18/22 3:42 PM (GMT-05:00) 
>> To: rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com 
>> Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Fender size for a Rambouiller 
>>
>> I'm firmly in Joe's camp.
>>
>> I use Challenge Paris Roubaix tires on my Rambouillet. They are labelled 
>> 27mm but measure 29.5mm. My fenders are Berthoud carbon fiber, only 25mm 
>> wide, but then this is my good weather bike. I would not recommend anything 
>> wider than these tires with any fender on the Rambouillet. 33.3mm would be 
>> very dangerous, in my opinion. If this were my bad weather bike, I'd be 
>> using the same tires but with the 41mm Stronglight anodized aluminum 
>> fenders.
>>
>> Peter Jon White
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 18, 2022 at 2:10 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>>> Jon, 
>>>
>>> You would probably need wider fenders for 33.3 and I'm not comfortable 
>>> recommending it. These frames weren't designed for a fender/tire 
>>> combination like that and the minimal  clearance is begging for a 
>>> bike-stopping branch to get stuck in there. 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, October 18, 2022 at 5:17:52 AM UTC-7 Jon Richardson wrote:
>>>
 Thanks Joe!  The description says for 20-28c tires, however I run the 
 33.3 Jack Bs, do I need a wider set of fenders?

>>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Bicycle Bus for Children

[ascpgh]

Very heartwarming to see so many embrace the activity. Sad that your stint 
was marred by parent problems in continued participation and equipment 
readiness. Not caring is a position kids learn because most things can be 
presented to them in a manner that does elicit their care. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh 

On Wednesday, October 12, 2022 at 8:36:40 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I came across this feel-good story about an Oregon school implementing a 
> bicycle bus. The PE teacher leads it and he has 170 kids riding to school 
> with him! I’ve pasted the link below, and if you are interested, you can 
> Google Alameda bike bus and lots of stories surface. 
>
> I had a short stint leading a bicycle bus in Las Vegas several years ago. 
> I ran into constant problems with it. I was the only parent, and there 
> would always be a mechanical of one sort or another along the way. What to 
> do? Stay with that child and make all the rest tardy? Leave that child and 
> take the rest? Neither seemed right. The weather and the mile-long ascent 
> home further complicated matters. The kids just didn’t have bikes that were 
> up to the challenge and they preferred the ease of being driven. It was 
> back to me and my kids in just a couple of weeks. I was so delighted to see 
> that the featured school found a way. And with so many children, wow. What 
> really tugged at my heartstrings was the quote about how adults have 
> underestimated how social children are. They love to be outside with their 
> friends. When I see the joy in the video and then think of the average 
> child in the minivan in the carpool lane, well, what a bummer.
>
> Watch and be cheered!
> Leah
>
>
> https://twitter.com/nbcnightlynews/status/1580340119927939072?s=12=Sn8mABWroaBCuLzPHJwVSQ
>
> And 
>
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/2022/10/11/bike-bus-school-sam-balto/
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Saddle Cover Issue w/Saddlebag

[ascpgh]

Your rain jacket tail should extend far enough to cover for rainfall, a 
saddle cover for when you get off your bike.

Some of the comments about adding slots in the covers to permanently mount 
them may seem ridiculous until you imagine the cover rolled up, captive 
atop your bag lid until you need it and unfurl it and hook it under the 
nose. 

If it rains where you ride, you adapt to it. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Tuesday, October 11, 2022 at 12:25:59 PM UTC-4 JAS wrote:

> I love the look and utility of a saddlebag, thus I've tried a Sackville 
> Bagboy and Swift Zeitgeist on Platy and Clem obtained from folks on this 
> list.  Here's the issue:  I have Selle Anatomica leather saddles, the rainy 
> times are coming to the Pacific Northwest and the saddle cover won't fit 
> properly with the bags attached.  What's a girl to do?   
>
> How do you protect your leather saddle when riding in the rain when you've 
> got a saddle bag attached to the loops on the saddle?  Do you use a cover 
> when riding or only when you're off the bike?  I'm not using a Brooks 
> saddle...do the loops get in the way of the cover or is the Selle Anatomica 
> design the problem?  I'm probably making a bigger deal out of this than 
> necessary, but I don't want to wreck my saddle.  Must I remove the 
> saddlebags and use a trunk bag and/or pannier for winter riding?  Is there 
> a better solution?  I will look forward to your ideas.
>
> Joyce
>

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[RBW] Re: Philadelphia Bike Expo 2022

[ascpgh]

I trying to get there, bothersome work schedule has me working on both 
Friday and Monday around the weekend. I'm aiming for a turnpike motel then 
close in for a Saturday night location near the SEPTA for both parking and 
an orderly exit for home Sunday. 

I now think of this gathering as a "meet your maker" opportunity. Amazing 
how after a few conversations you find yourself in the industry, because 
you are the focus at this bike expo. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Sunday, October 2, 2022 at 8:55:34 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I’m tentatively planning to be there. I will arrive Friday evening and 
> have to leave late morning Sunday. I’d love to meet Riv people! Roberta and 
> I have met a few times in real life on my turf but this will be my first 
> time on hers! I’ve been dying to meet Pam Murray and she will be at the 
> expo. Who else can come? 
> Leah
>
> On Saturday, October 1, 2022 at 8:03:22 PM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:
>
>> Oct 29 and 30, downtown Philadelphia, easily accessible by car, Septa, NJ 
>> Transit, Amtrak, Greyhound, etc.,  and bike!  They also have free valet 
>> bike parking inside. 
>>
>> https://phillybikeexpo.com/  
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

[ascpgh]

They are to me but that asks me to explore non-linear scalars to defend. 
Spreadsheets might produce answers that differ from mine, I tend to value 
the non-linear observations about things also.

I like bike things, I enjoy riding them, the interactions with and company 
of others who do so as well. I had the opportunity to meet and talk to Paul 
Price at the Philly Bike Expo a few years ago. I complimented him on the 
center mount Racers I bought for my Rambouillet and he asked if I had a 
picture on my phone. Not that Shimano or (fill in a component or brake 
manufacturer of your choice) don't care about you, but back in my shop days 
I seldom had the opportunity to speak to the person behind a product like 
Paul (or Grant Peterson) at trade show. 

My sample is this set of center mount Racers I put on my Rambouillet to 
replace the groupless Shimano calipers that were the only option when I 
bought the Ram as a full bike from Rivendell. My years of riding this bike 
brought to focus several issues with the original brakes that the Paul 
Racers more than adequately resolved. Since then I've had comments from 
riders about the bike and the Racer brakes. I gained fender clearance, tire 
clearance and brake performance.  

"Cool Shimano dual pivot calipers!" 
-No one.

What I like about bikes, bike parts, bike people and my experience riding 
supports my favorable impression of Paul Component Engineering brake 
options. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Sunday, September 25, 2022 at 1:52:35 PM UTC-4 Bill Fulford wrote:

> I was recently gifted $500 to Rivendell. My plan was to upgrade my 2007 
> Atlantis with Paul brakes and levers. I placed the order only to read later 
> that the brakes are sold per wheel. That’s  more than I wanted to spend. So 
> before I call Rivendell tomorrow morning to cancel I’m wondering how folks 
> feel about these brakes? I would be ordering the linear pull brake with 
> love levers. Are they worth it?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[ascpgh]

More saintly than I would have been if standing there. 

"Honest mistake" is the rationalization of a good samaritan not someone 
with access to tools holding themself out as a mechanic. What was described 
was a task in need of being done right by someone who didn't do so in the 
first place. Instead of acknowledging their corner-cutting, inadequate 
effort or skill by carefully doing it right the second time, they applied 
the same slapdash degree of "wrenching". I would have called them out and 
stopped things when pliers and a big screwdriver appeared. 

What do people like that intend to do with any time they save by doing work 
so poorly? 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 3:21:29 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:

> We lost it, Joe. In the immediate aftermath, a quiet hush descended over 
> the entire shop because everyone was shocked by what happened. And then it 
> was like, wtf?!? 
>
> The shop's first response was an unsatisfying and defensive, "it was an 
> honest mistake," and they would have been content to settle it with a mere 
> apology. After a lot of negotiation, the shop agreed to reimburse for labor 
> and to replace the brakes — but good luck finding polished (or any other 
> finish) NOS Racers. It's been three months since it happened and I've heard 
> nothing but crickets. So I was super pleased with Eric's message about Paul 
> Component resuming Racer production.
>
> It had taken me nine months to find the brakes — scouring the interwebs, 
> cold calling dozens of bike shops all over the country, putting out WTB 
> posts. Finally a set appeared in an eBay auction listing. I preempted the 
> auction by offering the seller a (very) pretty penny for them. I wanted 
> those brakes.
>
> Now... I have not lost perspective. This ordeal was upsetting, but it was 
> not an issue of grave existential importance. Still, these things matter to 
> bike nerds and to nerds in the making.
>
> Getting back to the original theme of this thread, I'll reiterate that if 
> I had the option, I would gladly and enthusiastically pay Rivendell to do 
> any frame prep, builds, etc. over any of my local bike shops, even if it 
> meant waiting a while.
>
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:26:36 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Indeed. That's really appalling. I'm so glad my LBS is competent like 
>> that and would tell me if they can't actually do the work. T
>>
>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 11:05:04 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> That's appalling, I would have LOST it if someone did this to my (very 
>>> expensive) Paul brakes. They owe you a new Racer. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:59:25 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>>
 Sorry, just noticed your note on this week-old thread, Piaw. Yes, I 
 totally agree that anyone can make mistakes. I also think there is a big 
 difference between a genuinely innocent mistake and negligence, 
 recklessness, or incompetence. (Ignoring specific instructions that were 
 in 
 earshot of the entire shop is an unfortunate instance of negligence.)

  Where you draw the line is debatable and depends on circumstances. For 
 me the big gash, scratches, and dings on brand new brakes, as shown in the 
 attached pic, unequivocably cross the line. The mechanic attempted to bend 
 the fender hanger tab with pliers while pushing off the brake bridge and 
 arm, using them as leverage, as the entire shop looked on with shock, and 
 despite the fact that he was asked to do it properly. It wouldn't have 
 been 
 as big a deal if the Racers were readily available (as they evidently will 
 be again in a few months), but this shouldn't have happened regardless. 

 [image: IMG_6141.jpg]   

 On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:15:28 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Anyone can make mistakes. When we got my wife's Rivendell-assembled 
> Cheviot a few years back, I ended up having to re-tighten the FD, and had 
> to adjust the shifters several times. It's not a big deal. I'd be a lot 
> less forgiving of frame prep failures. I'm a good enough mechanic that I 
> can build wheels myself (and used to teach wheel-building workshops), but 
> my definite preference is for parts and bikes that are "fire and forget". 
> But I'm also blessed to have good mechanics at LBSes for times when I 
> can't 
> or don't have time to fix something myself. I still try to do work myself 
> since frequently they're much more aggressive about replacing parts like 
> brake pads too early than I am.
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 9:39:10 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>
>> I would happily pay extra for Riv to prep a frame. I have absolute 
>> confidence in their work. There are lots of bike shops in my area that I 
>> have gone to when I didn’t have the time, tools, or inclination to do 
>> work 
>> myself. I’m 

Re: [RBW] Re: Atypical Ride on a Riv

[ascpgh]

Forgot a link to the map: 
https://shop.adventurewithkeen.com/product/nealy-map-lower-youghiogheny-river/

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 12:57:48 PM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:

> William Nealy drew a map of the Lower Youghigheny (95 miles of the GAP) 
> that would come in handy.
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
> On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 7:42:20 AM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Well this would be an interesting way to do the GAP!
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Sep 20, 2022, at 6:43 AM, ascpgh  wrote:
>>
>> That is so cool Collin! 
>>
>>
>> I've used my bike to shuttle from the take out of our favorite white 
>> water river (Mulberry River, AR). The take out was on our way upriver so it 
>> was convenient to do this. One or two of us would ride back to the 
>> vehicle(s) and drive back for the boats. Second time we did that we dropped 
>> other gear and supplies with the bikes so those staying with the boats 
>> could cook up a fitting lunch/dinner while we rode to and fetched the 
>> trucks.  Love the multi-mode days!
>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>>
>> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 2:01:12 PM UTC-4 Collin A wrote:
>>
>>> Sort-of Ride Report
>>>
>>> Most of my rides during the pandemic were the same couple of loops 
>>> around the American river in Sacramento, which does have some great trails 
>>> and some not-so-legal singletrack, but gets old if that's all you are 
>>> doing. I wasn't often able to (or unwilling) to make the 90 min drive to 
>>> the Bay Area to get a greater variety of riding in - think Mt Tam area, Mt 
>>> Diablo, Golden Gate Rec area, etc but I did head up to Auburn and truckee 
>>> when I got the chance and it was on fire or snowed in.
>>>
>>> Fast forward a year and I recently picked up a neat little tool to help 
>>> increase the variety of riding that I can do in a city with a river that 
>>> runs through it - a packraft! Its a pretty cool thing to be able to bike up 
>>> to 30 miles and paddle almost back home, or bike 35 miles and paddle into a 
>>> boat-in campsite (sadly, the mosquito Fire in Foresthill area has closed 
>>> most of those off for the forseeable future). I've gotten the setup pretty 
>>> well dialed, so I can load up an S24Os worth of gear plus a raft, paddle, 
>>> and PFD (I mostly go solo) without the Riv weighing like an absolute tank 
>>> (its still close to 70 lbs though!). 
>>>
>>> The typical route I try to do on the weekends now is to ride from my 
>>> apartment in Midtown and up to Nimbus dam (or just a little downstream), 
>>> blow up the raft, strap the bike to it, then paddle about 7-15 miles 
>>> depending on how I feel and how strong the wind is (wind is much worse on a 
>>> raft than on a bike). Its a great way to spend the afternoon, and the river 
>>> almost always changes from day-to-day thanks to drought related water 
>>> releases and power-requirements (the river is dammed pretty much the whole 
>>> way, but the last stretch is the USACE Folsom dam and Nimbus diversion).
>>>
>>> Anywho, just wanted to share what is fast becoming a more typical ride 
>>> for me, but definitely a fun and different experience to my typical local 
>>> ride. With the colder weather setting in, I'll also have to wear something 
>>> more than swimtrunks and sandals though :(
>>>
>>> Some sunny day photos:
>>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/8SjaVxY2ZNV3wJ9v6
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Collin in Stormramento
>>>
>> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Atypical Ride on a Riv

[ascpgh]

William Nealy drew a map of the Lower Youghigheny (95 miles of the GAP) 
that would come in handy.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 7:42:20 AM UTC-4 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Well this would be an interesting way to do the GAP!
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 20, 2022, at 6:43 AM, ascpgh  wrote:
>
> That is so cool Collin! 
>
>
> I've used my bike to shuttle from the take out of our favorite white water 
> river (Mulberry River, AR). The take out was on our way upriver so it was 
> convenient to do this. One or two of us would ride back to the vehicle(s) 
> and drive back for the boats. Second time we did that we dropped other gear 
> and supplies with the bikes so those staying with the boats could cook up a 
> fitting lunch/dinner while we rode to and fetched the trucks.  Love the 
> multi-mode days!
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 2:01:12 PM UTC-4 Collin A wrote:
>
>> Sort-of Ride Report
>>
>> Most of my rides during the pandemic were the same couple of loops around 
>> the American river in Sacramento, which does have some great trails and 
>> some not-so-legal singletrack, but gets old if that's all you are doing. I 
>> wasn't often able to (or unwilling) to make the 90 min drive to the Bay 
>> Area to get a greater variety of riding in - think Mt Tam area, Mt Diablo, 
>> Golden Gate Rec area, etc but I did head up to Auburn and truckee when I 
>> got the chance and it was on fire or snowed in.
>>
>> Fast forward a year and I recently picked up a neat little tool to help 
>> increase the variety of riding that I can do in a city with a river that 
>> runs through it - a packraft! Its a pretty cool thing to be able to bike up 
>> to 30 miles and paddle almost back home, or bike 35 miles and paddle into a 
>> boat-in campsite (sadly, the mosquito Fire in Foresthill area has closed 
>> most of those off for the forseeable future). I've gotten the setup pretty 
>> well dialed, so I can load up an S24Os worth of gear plus a raft, paddle, 
>> and PFD (I mostly go solo) without the Riv weighing like an absolute tank 
>> (its still close to 70 lbs though!). 
>>
>> The typical route I try to do on the weekends now is to ride from my 
>> apartment in Midtown and up to Nimbus dam (or just a little downstream), 
>> blow up the raft, strap the bike to it, then paddle about 7-15 miles 
>> depending on how I feel and how strong the wind is (wind is much worse on a 
>> raft than on a bike). Its a great way to spend the afternoon, and the river 
>> almost always changes from day-to-day thanks to drought related water 
>> releases and power-requirements (the river is dammed pretty much the whole 
>> way, but the last stretch is the USACE Folsom dam and Nimbus diversion).
>>
>> Anywho, just wanted to share what is fast becoming a more typical ride 
>> for me, but definitely a fun and different experience to my typical local 
>> ride. With the colder weather setting in, I'll also have to wear something 
>> more than swimtrunks and sandals though :(
>>
>> Some sunny day photos:
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/8SjaVxY2ZNV3wJ9v6
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Collin in Stormramento
>>
> -- 
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> .
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Atypical Ride on a Riv

[ascpgh]

That is so cool Collin! 

I've used my bike to shuttle from the take out of our favorite white water 
river (Mulberry River, AR). The take out was on our way upriver so it was 
convenient to do this. One or two of us would ride back to the vehicle(s) 
and drive back for the boats. Second time we did that we dropped other gear 
and supplies with the bikes so those staying with the boats could cook up a 
fitting lunch/dinner while we rode to and fetched the trucks.  Love the 
multi-mode days!

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Sunday, September 18, 2022 at 2:01:12 PM UTC-4 Collin A wrote:

> Sort-of Ride Report
>
> Most of my rides during the pandemic were the same couple of loops around 
> the American river in Sacramento, which does have some great trails and 
> some not-so-legal singletrack, but gets old if that's all you are doing. I 
> wasn't often able to (or unwilling) to make the 90 min drive to the Bay 
> Area to get a greater variety of riding in - think Mt Tam area, Mt Diablo, 
> Golden Gate Rec area, etc but I did head up to Auburn and truckee when I 
> got the chance and it was on fire or snowed in.
>
> Fast forward a year and I recently picked up a neat little tool to help 
> increase the variety of riding that I can do in a city with a river that 
> runs through it - a packraft! Its a pretty cool thing to be able to bike up 
> to 30 miles and paddle almost back home, or bike 35 miles and paddle into a 
> boat-in campsite (sadly, the mosquito Fire in Foresthill area has closed 
> most of those off for the forseeable future). I've gotten the setup pretty 
> well dialed, so I can load up an S24Os worth of gear plus a raft, paddle, 
> and PFD (I mostly go solo) without the Riv weighing like an absolute tank 
> (its still close to 70 lbs though!). 
>
> The typical route I try to do on the weekends now is to ride from my 
> apartment in Midtown and up to Nimbus dam (or just a little downstream), 
> blow up the raft, strap the bike to it, then paddle about 7-15 miles 
> depending on how I feel and how strong the wind is (wind is much worse on a 
> raft than on a bike). Its a great way to spend the afternoon, and the river 
> almost always changes from day-to-day thanks to drought related water 
> releases and power-requirements (the river is dammed pretty much the whole 
> way, but the last stretch is the USACE Folsom dam and Nimbus diversion).
>
> Anywho, just wanted to share what is fast becoming a more typical ride for 
> me, but definitely a fun and different experience to my typical local ride. 
> With the colder weather setting in, I'll also have to wear something more 
> than swimtrunks and sandals though :(
>
> Some sunny day photos:
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/8SjaVxY2ZNV3wJ9v6
>
> Cheers,
> Collin in Stormramento
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Club Rides On A Racing Platypus

[ascpgh]

What's mostly sown are seeds of thought when you show up on something other 
than the LBS/brand flavor of the month. It would be akin to treason amongst 
peers to go beyond that to inquire or ask for a spin. To uphold their toxic 
cyclista* chops they mostly only ask "how heavy is it?"

(*Affect derived from one's cycling consciousness being perspectives 
dictated by sources taken as credible until enlightenment by personal 
curiosity and experience)

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Monday, September 12, 2022 at 6:35:10 AM UTC-4 ryan.merri...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> "No,  I have to admit I never made a convert. I got admiring comments 
> (beautiful bike! How old is that?) and sometimes an old guy would start 
> telling me about his bikes back in the day. But never a request to ride or 
> request for info. I think the Ram also just wasn’t quite odd enough. "
>
>
> I never got any body to convert either...I tried too but nobody ever 
> showed up with a handlebar bag or panniers to a club ride (except me). 
> There were a few cyclists who would show up on steel racing frames, some 
> even with downtube shifters, and tear up a club ride. That was cool to see. 
>
> On Sunday, September 11, 2022 at 5:35:43 PM UTC-5 felt...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> No,  I have to admit I never made a convert. I got admiring comments 
>> (beautiful bike! How old is that?) and sometimes an old guy would start 
>> telling me about his bikes back in the day. But never a request to ride or 
>> request for info. I think the Ram also just wasn’t quite odd enough. 
>>
>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 11:37:19 AM UTC-6 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> I’m *loving* these bike stories you guys are giving. Now that I’ve got 
>>> club riding experience, I can better relate to your stories. 
>>>
>>> Interesting observation about the comfort of the Trek - I wonder why it 
>>> became uncomfortable when slowing? I can relate about the hills, too. We 
>>> Riv riders are working harder on our hills than the rest. I stand up and 
>>> PUSH on my pedals on our ascents. I feel like I need more weight to get 
>>> them to turn faster, and I can feel the bikes behind me gaining. But once 
>>> we crest the top I’m back up to pace again. I know I work harder on my 
>>> bike, but I also think that makes me stronger. I am at my high school 
>>> weight, or maybe less, and I have new muscles and even new circulation. I 
>>> have augmented my riding with weight lifting and core about 6 days a week, 
>>> and I think that helps my rides, too.
>>>
>>> I can also relate to the bag comments - Marc (Sam rider with a 
>>> Saddlesack) and I rode a club ride one day. One guy said to us, “You guys 
>>> are ready for anything. Even a job interview…with your little briefcases.” 
>>>
>>> Club rides are good, clean fun and a good way to challenge yourself. 
>>> They don’t replace the best kind of riding - using your bike to go places 
>>> and do things - but they are a good time.
>>>
>>> Ryan and Feltovich - did either of you make any converts? Anyone want to 
>>> try your Rivendell and then love the comfort?
>>>
>>> L
>>>
>>> On Sep 10, 2022, at 12:51 PM, Ryan M.  wrote:
>>>
>>> Club riding can be a lot of fun and quite rewarding. I always liked 
>>> riding with a group like that when I had the time...the fitness of it was 
>>> great. 
>>>
>>>
>>> I started out club riding on my Sam Hillborne with a Sackville handlebar 
>>> bag hooked up to a set of Nitto Noodles. My friend would make fun of me 
>>> asking why I needed a trout creel on the bike; I just answered that it was 
>>> the perfect size for a 6 pack of beer and a sandwich in case we needed a 
>>> rest stop. It was a great bike for riding with the slower or medium speed 
>>> group. Eventually I bought a carbon Trek and really started riding with the 
>>> faster group. Did it for a few years and I do think the bike setup helped 
>>> with the speed and I don't think I could have kept up with the group on my 
>>> Sam. I did buy a Roadeo and road that...and it was a great bike for club 
>>> riding. That carbon bike could climb a hill faster and more efficiently 
>>> than the Hillborne could, I can't deny that. The Roadeo was faster than the 
>>> Sam too and really about the same as the carbon bike for efficiency.  The 
>>> thing about that carbon Trek bike was that it was really comfortable for 
>>> long rides provided I was kinda hammering the pedals most of the time. As 
>>> soon as the pace came down to casual, the bike would become uncomfortable. 
>>> The Rivs were comfortable all the time.
>>>
>>> It's always a sobering moment when the group gets blown away by the 
>>> single speed riding, flip flop sporting, floppy t-shirt and jean short 
>>> wearing bike shop employee who just looks like he is out for a Sunday 
>>> stroll. 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, September 10, 2022 at 10:26:17 AM UTC-5 felt...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 When we lived in minneapolis I rode with a small neighborhood group 
 that did 

[RBW] Re: Advantages of front loading

[ascpgh]

I loaded my Rambouillet with a Caradice Nelson Longflap when new to do a 
credit card camping take on the TranAm/Western Flyer route from Norfolk, VA 
to SF, CA via Pueblo, CO starting in early May. It was perfect, although I 
could see being a bit more prepared for contingencies (more stuff) would be 
good, but I was within tolerance range of the Rivendale stated optimal max 
load. All the good handling attributes felt like they were  without damping 
by the rear load which in fairness was in front of the rear hub. I dare say 
every Rivendell model is different and presents a varying capacity by 
design for carrying loads on the front. Those that are more able in total 
still have an order by which you add your increments (bags and contents) of 
load as you close in on your total. 

Fast forward a decade, I joined a group of Riv riders on the GAP starting 
at Cumberland, MD in April. The food and drink needs of the route and 
overnight,  the climate changes from warm at the start, cool and rainy by 
Confluence, PA and snow from Ohiopyle on West Newton, PAwarranted that I 
added another bag which was a small VO Berthoud knock-with a  little old 
French rack. Seemed innnocuous but either the total weight or the front 
load itself really snuffed the nice handling. It became more ponderous than 
the load would have predicted. My feeling riding it those hundred miles was 
that a bike needs to be designed for your load, meaning enough heft of the 
tube set and geometry that won't make necessary lots of fine inputs. Not a 
super riding bike empty. Loaded as it was, my Ram was awkward because of 
the deliberate effort necessary to input the small adjustments for its 
specified trail.

Trail and handling are a dimension and outcome and the relationship 
overlooks lots of other dimensions with input to how the bike rides in your 
uses. I am over 6" tall and have long legs and a short torso for my height. 
That made the under square Rambouillet a very good option for me since I 
was a bit short of the experience I later found helpful when pursuing a 
custom bike but did prefer a sportier riding bike than say an early '90s 
MTB conversion. The front load on the Rambouillet overrode many of the 
details that kept it predictably handling without my toe ever tangling up 
with the front fender. It has, as previous Ram riders (Steve P.) have 
noted, a tendency to veer off track on slow, low-cadence, out of saddle 
climbs unloaded or rear loaded due to the higher trail. That I believe is a 
combination of the compensations of things that resulted in the front end 
geometry including trail and the out of saddle weight distribution coming 
forward. The trail dimension can also surprise you when a brief surface 
change that addresses the front wheel implies any lateral force to it. I 
have short, steeply ramped driveway curb cut that you cross on an angle in 
mind. The Ram can be flustered on my exact example, my subsequent lower 
trail bike is not, loaded or not.  

As James' at Analog's article points out no one thing is panacea. 
Everything has limits, beneficial or otherwise. I found that loading my 
Rambouillet enough for rides in austere place for more than a day, keeping 
the front unburdened enough left me with a limited size tire that had to be 
pumped up pretty high to account for the odd edge, rock or whatever rim 
pinch or worse. Not the best ride for this bike and it goes against some 
thought that the cargo load, even when compensated with tire pressure, 
makes a bike ride smother. I've had two rear wheel destroying hits on this 
bike the front wheel floated past unharmed. This rear bias in load 
preference, the declining comfort as the load or the road dictates rear 
tire pressure to increase and as the geometry for the front end's 
contribution to handling gave me the confidence I needed to step off into a 
custom. 

I wanted a bike that fit my non-stock body that had enough tire to ride on 
the mixed surfaces I frequent, capable of several days of non-camping load 
without feeling over burdened, more equalized F-R weight distribution so I 
can benefit from the tires' inflation instead of nearing the max to avoid 
flats, no toe overlap with fenders and that was fun to ride unloaded. I 
have a Disc Trucker commuter so that last point is emphasized as I find it 
intolerable after 35 miles due to both being generically overbuilt for 
loads and the top tube stock geometry.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Tuesday, September 6, 2022 at 9:50:44 AM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com wrote:

> I thought it might be somewhat pertinent to the discussion to link to this 
> article about low-trail bikes and handling. Written by James from Analog 
> Cycles a couple years back when it seemed like everyone was desiring a 
> low-trail frame:
> https://analogcycles.com/pages/debunking-low-trail
>
> While it doesn't directly address the original post's questions about 
> front-loading on Rivendells, there's some good info about how certain 

[RBW] Re: PSI On The Fly, maybe a favorite pump lead...

[ascpgh]

Agree on full size pumps versus minis but on my commuter it makes sense to 
reduct the appealing things that attract pilfering. Oh yeah, weather too. 
We have that here. I ran a pump behind the seat tube on my yellow '86 
RockHopper (before the NORBA geometry infection). Just be sure to have the 
handle end up/chuck end down when in the position as a fender. 

Previous thread about bagged mini pumps: 
https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/jBXQT-GxqgM/m/qTmqnCM4DQ 


Pictures: 
https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/jBXQT-GxqgM/m/sIjgQGXKDgAJ

Andy Cheatham
Pitttsburgh

On Saturday, September 3, 2022 at 9:16:29 PM UTC-4 Luke Hendrickson wrote:

> Local (San Francisco) Atlantis owner here! I would love to try out that 
> route for myself.
>
> Since I’m a “heavier” rider at 190lbs., I run the PSI at a steady 35 in 
> the front and 40 in the rear with my 2.4” Maxxis front/2.3” Maxxis rear. I 
> don’t like tinkering with PSI all that much and also run tubes. 
>
> As for a pump… frame pump or nothing for me. Why carry a miniature to 
> shave grams and then spend 30 minutes inflating a high volume tire? I had a 
> vintage Silca with a Campy head (so good and light), but have now opted for 
> a Zefal HPX on both my mid-80s Ritchey mtb and my Atlantis. I like how 
> utilitarian it is as a pump and how easy it is to mount. See attached for 
> the current set up. 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 9:53:13 PM UTC-7 ack...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The Road-ish Riv Rubber Radius thread got me thinking about PSI 
>> adjustments while on longer rides.  Last month I rode my 56cm 650b Atlantis 
>> from San Francisco to Olema via Mt. Tam and the Bolinas Ridge Fire Trail 
>> (which was about 13 miles and our main gravel section of the day) and back 
>> to SF via Samuel P. Taylor and Fairfax.  A glorious 75 mile-ride (80% 
>> road/20%gravel) with 6000 ft of climbing on a perfectly sunny, temperate 
>> day.  We stopped at Pantoll Station midway to the top of Mt. Tam and made 
>> coffee and had some decadent pastries and smoked salmon.  Everything was 
>> perfect.except for one five mile stretch at the end of the Bolinas 
>> Ridge Fire Trail.  A "relentless descent" characterized by obstinate cows, 
>> hard-packed dirt that could only be described as rutted washboard, and lots 
>> of time spent death-gripping my TRP brake levers on my newly mounted 666mm 
>> Crust Towel Rack bars.  Once past this stretch, the ride returned to its' 
>> earlier glory and we headed home through idyllic Marin County.  A great day 
>> of mixed-terrain riding.  In retrospect, though, I can't help but think 
>> that I could have avoided the unpleasantness of that 5-mile descent had I 
>> just thought to lower my PSI before getting on the fire trail.  Being that 
>> the first half of the ride and the final 35% of the ride would be on the 
>> road, I started (and finished) my day out at 42 PSI on my 48mm Rene Herse 
>> Switchback Hill Endurance tires.  Now I'm kicking myself for not lowering 
>> the pressure significantly.  And I figured that this would be a good place 
>> to ask for others' experience with mid-ride PSI changes.  Is this something 
>> that folks do regularly or are y'all more inclined to choose a PSI that 
>> will work on mixed terrain?  And if frequent PSI changes are the norm, what 
>> pumps are your favorites?  Since most (?) Riv-Riders seem to be almost 
>> obsessed with bags as they are with their bikes (I rode with my Fabios 
>> Chest L on this particular day) I figure that pump size is not as important 
>> as pump efficiency. 
>> Thanks for your consideration.
>> Alex
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: PSI On The Fly, maybe a favorite pump lead...

[ascpgh]

On longer rides I change inflation for sections with different surfaces, 
speeds or handing challenges best addressed by such. I have a full size 
Zefal HPX under the top tube, on the head tube pump peg, of my 700x32 
(tubes) Rambouillet and a Lezyne Road modified for the peg and dropout nub 
on my left rear seat stay on my 650Bx42 (tubeless) Coast rando. I find both 
pretty handy for a fast stop to add air.  

I'm in the camp of adjusting until it feels right, a gauge reading being a 
number to start with instead of gospel. If I get lateral sidewall flex when 
pedaling through a paved turn, I add. If I'm being battered by feeling each 
piece of aggregate in course pavement or gravel I let some out. Conversely, 
particularly with the Rambouillet, I grudgingly add air when I sense the 
potential for rim pinching under a particular load.

On both bikes I'm riding RH tires and have found them rewarding to my 
perceptions of fine tuning tire pressures. It's ultimately what motivated 
me to go low trail, front loading, when pumping up the Rambouillet's rear 
tire above my normal PSI if carrying stuff for overnight or longer because 
it made harder riding than when unloaded and is a noticeable source of 
fatigue on long rides. That's when stopping to optimize inflation is not a 
waste of riding time but rather an investment in reaping the best rewards i 
can from my bike and the duration of the ride. I've had to work up to to a 
century ride on the Ram in any season where the bigger tired and wider 
tolerance of inflation pressures Coast enabled me to ride such distances 
much more easily and without feeling as worn out afterward.  

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 12:53:13 AM UTC-4 ack...@gmail.com wrote:

> The Road-ish Riv Rubber Radius thread got me thinking about PSI 
> adjustments while on longer rides.  Last month I rode my 56cm 650b Atlantis 
> from San Francisco to Olema via Mt. Tam and the Bolinas Ridge Fire Trail 
> (which was about 13 miles and our main gravel section of the day) and back 
> to SF via Samuel P. Taylor and Fairfax.  A glorious 75 mile-ride (80% 
> road/20%gravel) with 6000 ft of climbing on a perfectly sunny, temperate 
> day.  We stopped at Pantoll Station midway to the top of Mt. Tam and made 
> coffee and had some decadent pastries and smoked salmon.  Everything was 
> perfect.except for one five mile stretch at the end of the Bolinas 
> Ridge Fire Trail.  A "relentless descent" characterized by obstinate cows, 
> hard-packed dirt that could only be described as rutted washboard, and lots 
> of time spent death-gripping my TRP brake levers on my newly mounted 666mm 
> Crust Towel Rack bars.  Once past this stretch, the ride returned to its' 
> earlier glory and we headed home through idyllic Marin County.  A great day 
> of mixed-terrain riding.  In retrospect, though, I can't help but think 
> that I could have avoided the unpleasantness of that 5-mile descent had I 
> just thought to lower my PSI before getting on the fire trail.  Being that 
> the first half of the ride and the final 35% of the ride would be on the 
> road, I started (and finished) my day out at 42 PSI on my 48mm Rene Herse 
> Switchback Hill Endurance tires.  Now I'm kicking myself for not lowering 
> the pressure significantly.  And I figured that this would be a good place 
> to ask for others' experience with mid-ride PSI changes.  Is this something 
> that folks do regularly or are y'all more inclined to choose a PSI that 
> will work on mixed terrain?  And if frequent PSI changes are the norm, what 
> pumps are your favorites?  Since most (?) Riv-Riders seem to be almost 
> obsessed with bags as they are with their bikes (I rode with my Fabios 
> Chest L on this particular day) I figure that pump size is not as important 
> as pump efficiency. 
> Thanks for your consideration.
> Alex
>

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[RBW] Re: Seeking rim input

[ascpgh]

Pacenti Brevets have worked well for me, for two years so far. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 8:51:15 PM UTC-4 plumber...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hello everyone hope you've all enjoyed a casual ride this weekend!
>
> I'm looking for some input on rims. I recently purchased a Bombadil from a 
> member on here and am planning on having new wheels built up. After 
> enduring a painful wait I have received my rear hub from White Industries 
> front will have a generator. Thankfully they were ahead of the initial 
> estimated wait time. I have a set of 48mm RH knobbies that I plan on 
> running once the wheels are build but might switch it up.  
>
> What 650B rims are you running these days? 
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Vern
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Randonneuring Bike

[ascpgh]

+1 on responses prioritizing comfort.


I haven't done any official randonneuring but I have ridden across the 
country with a small group on a light credit card touring ride and every 
summer I try to ride some self-inflicted centuries. 

When I was first approached about the cross country ride I realistically 
assessed my RB-1 as not up to it. I was sore, stiff and not very functional 
after anything more than four hours of riding it. I spoke to Grant about 
possibly a Riv custom and he told me about the upcoming Rambouillet and I 
bought one. Predictable handling, responsive to inputs and comfortable for 
long (8-12 hours) days of riding. Really great. 

My only addition is to consider what your load situation would be. I found 
that as I took on a bit more gear and anticipated more unpaved than I did 
for the mostly state road trek coast to coast the envelope of any bike can 
be reached. My Ram with fenders maxes out with 32mm tires and being 
moderate to high trail it doesn't tolerate loading in the front well and 
doesn't have braze ons to encourage such. This means if I head out for a 
few days my load in my Carradice Nelson Longflap saddlebag with a Bagman 
support adds to the already rear heavy distribution of just me on the bike 
and requires keeping the inflation of the rear tire to be higher, limiting 
the comfort of the 32s over time. A model with clearance for more tire 
width would be the next consideration 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh




On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 4:52:59 PM UTC-4 Dick Combs wrote:

> Looking for opinions/thoughts on the best Riv for Brevets, 200-400K rides. 
> Looking for current models as well as older models. Thanks

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Re: [RBW] Re: Club Rides On A Racing Platypus

[ascpgh]

I believe this will come to a division at the invisible and transient line 
separating  linear and non-linear sensory processing by riders. Many will 
have an appreciation of a varying balance of both extremes of integrating 
and appreciating sensory input from riding their bikes. 

Ride reports demonstrate this and will range from expanded Strava data 
recaps to descriptions of scenery, locations of stops and what was eaten in 
that setting. Folks will vary between appreciating information in 
spreadsheet form or in a rich verbal descriptive with included photos to 
convey the satisfaction of a ride. Depends on your brain's manner of being 
satisfied and how a bike ride meets those objectives. After any ride do you 
look at the pictures from the ride or data collected by and processed by 
technical means?

I am not concerned by gram counting or resistance reduction, both mean I'll 
get more exercise sooner than those with equipment offering both to them. 
If we ride the same ride I will be better exercised at the end than they 
will. 

What I do notice are the sounds of a bike. We've gone on about the varying 
loudness of free hubs ratcheting and I have to admit to being a sound 
processor, seeking satisfaction through that input along with the others. 
Maybe it's why I strive to resolve adventitious sounds from my bikes but 
it's also why I am not much of a fan of road disc brakes and two piece 
cranks that under normal operation by the average bike owner (vs a shop 
employee or well appointed and experienced individual with daily access to 
a work stand, tools and materials) squeak, creak and shriek from the need 
for some nominal regular service or adjustment that's being missed. 

I hear CF rimmed wheels under way on others bikes and it isn't the quieter 
sound of an aluminum rimmed wheel to me. Maybe it's the majority of hollow 
CF frames those wheels are on, acting as a soundbox amplifying their aural 
footprint and I'd be less aware of them under a less amplifying steel 
frame. I have my own bandwidth of technical appreciation and realize each 
facet comes with a reason, a story from the past that makes it have meaning 
that is persistent to me, not usurped by the next big thing on specs alone. 
there is much in all of our lives beyond bicycle parts that is important to 
us but non-sensical to others, including those close to you. To argue or 
apply effort to align others is misplaced and fails to acknowledge how 
individual and unique processing of stimulus is. 

Any way, bicycling is about sights and sounds, smells and tastes, comfort 
and discomfort, enjoyment and displeasure. Each in a balance that satisfies 
my moment when I choose to go on a ride. The hardware is important but not 
enough to elevate spreadsheet data to gospel above experiential 
associations that I learned and come to trust over time. No component 
manufacturer and spec sheet has that power over me. Frame builders, maybe. 

When I say enjoy your ride I mean to optimize the sensory experience that 
brings you satisfaction and if grams related to time reduction under a 
known caloric output capacity defined from previous segment performance, 
let that be expressed. I'd choose to be out riding for the extra time, 
appreciating the experiences it's providing.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsbburgh

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 12:30:36 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Pretty Sotherland, and that's one of the most interesting head badges I've 
> seen. The motto in full is "Sans peur et sans reproche" -- "Without fear 
> and without blame" or generally, "Beyond fear and reproach," the motto of 
> the ideal knight of chivalry.
>
> I'm just asking this (of the group) and not reproaching: Do carbon fork 
> and aero carbon fiber wheels make that much of a difference over a good 
> steel fork and say lightweight tubulars or RH extralight clinchers at less 
> than race speeds? 
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 12, 2022 at 2:03 PM Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! <
> jonasa...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Today was a women’s ride. 29 miles at over 16 mph, and it was great. Such 
>> a nice group of women. Many of them ride TO the ride, and then ride home 
>> again. I come from the opposite end of the city, so I am always stuck 
>> driving. Anyway, I have some photos but first let’s take a minute to 
>> appreciate this lugged, steel bike that belongs to my ride leader. You’ll 
>> see her decals say “Sotherland.” That does happen to be her name, yes, but 
>> it is also the builder’s name. John Sotherland used to build the Rivendell 
>> frames in the Waterford days; he has since opened his own shop. John is a 
>> brother-in-law to my ride leader, and he made her this beautiful pink and 
>> white fade bike in 1988. This is the original paint job. I did not have 
>> time to ask about the fork, but aren’t her chainstays interesting? We were 
>> pulled over on a highway waiting for a rider to fix her flat, so I 
>> hurriedly took these few shots. 
>>
>> Save this one bike, all the 

[RBW] Re: Ride report: Shenandoah foothills

[ascpgh]

That report makes me want to skip out on my obligations later this week and 
head out on a nice ride. 

What makes a bike trip for me is summed up by your recollection and 
appreciation of details of the experience usually lost to those riding pace 
lines, hurrying through similar locales.  

I'm less enthralled by the IG feeds of @upland_scuz_contingency who, 
despite the attraction of riding many wonderful places in Virginia, rarely 
appear to appreciate them as they seem bent on segment times and speed. 
Just because your bike has the means to blast through terrain at speed 
doesn't mean it provides the best experience. I have a similar aversion to 
the morphing of otherwise nice trails out in the woods with ramps, created 
drops and jumps because full-SUS enduro bike is able to handle it, (even if 
some riders can't, judging by volume of social media posts) . Not the "hand 
of man" signs I'm interested by when on a ride in the woods. 

Riding is a stimulant of all of the senses if you bother. My kind of ride 
report, Eric!

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 9:52:21 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Shenandoah Foothills
> 47 miles, 5,380 feet
> Clear. Low 60s in the morning, warming to the high 70s, humidity at 50% 
> and below. 
>
> August in Virginia is typically a warm and uncomfortable month with 
> average temperatures in the mid 80s and often creeping into the upper 90s. 
> Humidity is unpleasantly high as well. The past few weeks were particularly 
> oppressive with humidity averaging around 70% (and often much higher) and 
> temperatures reaching the 90s most days. These temps have forced the smart 
> riders to depart at first light, drenched to the bone before 8AM. 
>
> We had a break from all of that this weekend with temperatures dipping 
> into a realm of unseasonable deliciousness. Low humidity, a cool morning 
> starting in the high 50s and a max temperature around 80º had this Saturday 
> looking too good to pass by unridden. 
>
> I recently swapped out the drivetrain on my Hillborne. I had been running 
> a Sugino XD2 with a 48/36/24, a Shimano 11-36 9-speed cassette, a plain 
> silver Shimano Ultegra front mech and a Shimano Deore XT M771 rear 
> derailer. These worked just fine but I found the chainrings left me 
> shifting at awkward intervals and I'd been wanting to try a compact double. 
>
> So I changed in a SunXCD crank with 42/26 chainrings from TA Specialites 
> purchased from Jitensha Studio in Berkeley. Because I found the Shimano 
> mechs were too ugly for my liking I sought out a Suntour Cyclone GT rear 
> and a Cyclone front derailer. These lovely workhorses seemed more 
> appropriate for the bike. I installed one of the new S-Ride 7-speed 
> cassettes from Soma Fab Shop, made with input from Rivendell. The movement 
> and tooth capacity of the rear Cyclone didn't agree with a 9-speed 
> cassette. And I swapped my MKS XC-III bear-trap pedals for MKS Sylvan 
> Gorditos specified by Crust. The bear-traps were uncomfortable for my very 
> wide feet.
>
> A friend sent me a used set of Rene Herse Snoqualmie Pass tires in the 
> extralight casing, which I hadn't tried before. I'd been running the same 
> in the standard casing for about a year. The new-to-me tires were buttery 
> smooth and I had no issues or flats during my ride. 
>
> Lately I have been enjoying Jobst Brandt's alpine tour reports with 
> sensational views, grand distances and unfathomable amounts of climbing. 
> I've also been reading Ray Hosler's collection of diaries from riding with 
> Brandt around the Santa Cruz Mountains in the 1980s. So inspired I made up 
> a route for myself that incorporated a few tough climbs on some of my 
> favorite roads. The length and elevation gain of my route doesn't compare 
> to their marathon rides.  
>
> From the start I began a three-mile climb over loose, unpaved road with 
> sections pitching up over 16% grade. I enjoy the challenge of making this 
> climb in one go but there is a shoulder with a wide mountain view that I 
> always end up stopping for. Pedaling up the climb, and some of the steepest 
> stuff I know, was manageable with my new gearing. I enjoy dumping the chain 
> from the 42-tooth to the 26-tooth ring when the going gets going. 
> Throughout the ride I had appropriate gearing to make it through without 
> much trouble. 
>
> [image: 20220813A 03.jpg]
>
> At the top of this hill, at an elevation of 1,300 feet, I took a rest for 
> some water. Though I had ridden fewer than four miles I decided to have 
> half of the sandwich I'd packed: peanut butter, banana, honey, coconut 
> flakes and salt on sourdough bread. As a fat burner I was worried how the 
> carbohydrates would treat me and concerned they would occasion bonking, 
> which I don't experience on rides. My engine runs best when I don't eat 
> bread, sugar, grain and the rest but I'd been craving a sandwich like this 
> for weeks. It was a pleasure and I suffered no ill 

[RBW] Re: One Rivendell to rule them all

[ascpgh]

Welcome Alexander, Rivendell is like a garage party with a band that's a 
more humbling experience with talent, better than a huge show at a big 
forum. 

Back in my shop days Bridgestone was our bread and butter. Grant earned the 
ability to design the US market product and they were so much better riding 
bikes that even an average rider would return smiling after a fifteen 
minute test ride. Not the highest volume bikes, Grant even told us they 
would be the hardest to sell since folks want to believe what they already 
do, even if presented with examples otherwise.

I called Grant several years into Rivendell after Bridgestone when I needed 
a bike more specific for longer rides, farther from home than my RB-1 
(which didn't really fit me-my legs are too long for my height). From the 
Rivendell Reader and catalog I was thinking I needed a custom but he told 
me about the Rambouillet. It was the next "stock" model, stablemate of the 
already in production Atlantis and checked the boxes of my list, adding 
some I hadn't considered. 

I rode my Rambouillet across the country and on every ride I took since 
including some things less than fire trails, having long been an underbiker 
and gone miles on forest service "roads" on bikes not apparent to that use. 
We were riding gravel before its current adherents were born and I used my 
XO-2 and RB-1. Rivendell marketed the model name as the useful, dependable 
sheep that provided much utility to those keeping flocks of them. 

My Rambouillet shines in it's smoothness of ride and predictable handling. 
Much of that is because of how well it fits me, something random other 
riders have noted to me on rides. A the Five Boros ride in NYC my wife 
tired of how frequently folks approached and remarked on my Rambouillet and 
was who pointed out how sour those around us on what she called modern 
bikes looked. The bike continues to be a bike people comment on regardless 
of how expensive proximate modern bikes are.

It's a bike that can be used in many ways that rewards my uses. Sort of 
where the brand and Grant position themselves.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgg
On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 8:29:44 PM UTC-4 alexander...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm a new group member but long time Riv fan. I recently came the closest 
> I've come to actually buying Rivendell, having only recently reached a 
> point where it has not felt out of reach financially. Anyway, it got me 
> wondering - what is the one model you would choose, current or 
> discontinued, if you could only have one?
>
> Alternately, what is your favorite Rivendell you have owned?
>
> Asking in part because I am wondering where to start myself - I've wanted 
> a Hunqapillar for a long time, and recently have become a bit obsessed with 
> the Quickbeam as well - but every model seems great in its own way. Mostly 
> just curious what you all find yourself riding the most though!
>

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Re: [RBW] Which Dyno Hub?

[ascpgh]

Good points. My initial SON 28 was for my commuter that sees it all. I'd be 
embarrassed to show a picture of it now after last week's wet commutes, but 
that's what's proven to be the thing with the SON, it just keeps working. 
Long ago I learned from reading Jobst Brandt to use the best parts to build 
your wheels. Never easy to replace a part of a built wheel. I learned the 
expense of a wheel part failure with aluminum nipples.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 8:12:27 AM UTC-4 Will M wrote:

> Jason,
>
> The best data I've found for objectively comparing output power and drag 
> of different dynamo hubs across a range of speeds is here.  
> https://www.cyclingabout.com/dynamo-hub-power-drag-testing-schmidt-son-shutter-precision-shimano/
>
> I live car-free in an east-coast city.  Due to probability of theft, I 
> went with less expensive 6V-3W Shimano dynohubs on my VO commuter bike and 
> my Yuba extended-wheelbase cargo bike.  I had Cygolites in the past, but 
> discovered the elegance of dynohub lighting -- lights are permanently 
> mounted (theft prevention) and they always work (nothing to recharge).  
> Less hassle.
>
> To reduce zipties and wires, on my Quickbeam I went with this 6V-2.4W 
> Shimano dynamo hub 
> 
>  
> which powers only a front light (this battery-powered rear light 
> 
>  
> on the fender).  If I were to do it again, I'd go with a 6V-3W hub with 
> rear wiring using this elegant approach proposed by Igor at VO 
> 
> .
>
> The "gotcha" with the Shimano dynamo hubs is that the wire connector cap 
> and cover 
>  
> is neither waterproof nor robust.  I've lost lights in more than 1 rain 
> storm.  The connector cap has torn off more than once in normal riding.  
> When I think about the value of one's time -- and the time spent 
> maintaining the connector -- it starts to seem myopic not going with the 
> SON. :-)
>
> You asked about rims and spokes.  There are so many dynamo hub options out 
> there (disc brake vs. rim brake; 32h vs. 36h vs. XXh; black vs. silver; 
> etc. etc.), so you can get whatever you want/need.  I saved a ton of money 
> trolling eBay remembering what Grant wrote in a Riv Reader more than a 
> decade ago: "Mismatched rims are cool."
>
> Cheers,
> Will M
> NYC  
>
>  
> On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 10:38:30 AM UTC-4 greenteadrinkers wrote:
>
>> Speaking as someone with a few SON28 wheels, and the type of riding you 
>> described, I'd suggest considering a $30 Paul Gino mount and a few $35 
>> Cygolite lights a go before investing $500+ on a SON28 and Edelux headlight 
>> (not including the cost for the cox-axial connector, rim, rim tape, spokes, 
>> and nipples). But, I totally get it, Dyno hubs are awesome! Personally, I 
>> hate having to look at the wiring and zip ties.
>>
>> Best
>> Scott
>>
>> On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 9:09:10 AM UTC-4 peec...@yahoo.com wrote:
>>
>>> I have Velogical dynamo on my Sam Hillborne.  Love its elegance and the 
>>> fact that I didn't have to change my front wheel and hub when I wanted to 
>>> add dynamo lighting.  One other con to consider is the potential for 
>>> slipping when riding in wet conditions.  The  Velogical has provided 
>>> adequate light even when wet however.  Tim Petersen
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 10:19:02 AM UTC-5 campyo...@me.com wrote:
>>>
 Jason:

 You’ll hear many opinions—good luck sifting through the advice you will 
 get!

 I have both SON and Shutter Precision hubs and have not had any issues 
 with either. My SONs have ranged from the old-style type with flanges 
 pressed onto a center piece to the modern (and very pretty) type. I have 
 several variations of the SP hubs on various bikes.

 If money is no object, definitely go with SON, if only because they’re 
 so darn pretty. SP will perform just as well—I have not experienced the 
 “roughness” that one other respondent reported.

 Based on what I’ve read about SON and their weather sealing, the 
 biggest advantage that I know of is that they are pressure compensated; SP 
 hubs are not. That means that if you go from a warm, dry environment 
 directly into a cold and dry one, the SON hubs won’t draw in moisture as 
 the air inside the hub cools. SP hubs might, but for this to be a problem, 
 you would have to roll right out into a cold downpour. That’s an edge case 
 for me and something that has never been a problem.

 Finally … Have you considered the Velogical dynamo? I have one on an 
 Alex Singer, and it’s great. Pros: Cheaper than a dyno hub and wheel, very 
 low draw, ZERO drag in the “off” 

[RBW] Re: Advice on a bike trade

[ascpgh]

Nope.

The slope of resistance to to really letting yourself ride and enjoy an 
XO-1 as Grant designed and intended is steep. Considering this trade 
communicates that you objectify the XO-1, as many do. I had a '93 XO-2 (the 
purple Dirt Drop bar one) and found it a pioneering design idea but easily 
outdone by my 2002 Rambouillet, also by Toyo. The focus Rivendell allowed 
Grant to give the Atlantis and Rambouillet exceeded what could be done in 
the Bridgestone business model considering the production nature of those 
bikes, even the rare halo models (had a '91 MB-0 too). 

Good conversation a while back either here or on iBOB about production 
lugged construction (realtive to the MB-series) with input from Mark B. 
about the copper brazing head tube and lugs made as a component for the 
main triangle build was a good example how the finished frame looks like a 
hand built item but incorporates definitely mass production process.

I prefer my bikes dusty from miles on unpaved roads, not storing them. Keep 
and ride the Atlantis.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 6:03:27 PM UTC-4 frankie garcia wrote:

> Would you trade your mint 2000 Toyota Atlantis 26” for a Bridgestone Xo-1 
> in the same condition?
> Please elaborate. 
>
> -Frankie 
>
> Sent from my iPhone

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Re: [RBW] If Riv built a cargo bike

[ascpgh]

Thread drift? The three whee bike sure won't if the load between the rear 
wheels is huge but it will plow. 

I worked in an aluminum mill one summer and used a Worksman industrial 
tricycle to collect my molten and sheet samples to take to the QC lab. 
Around the re-roll line the feint trace of mill oil condensed on the floor 
reduced CoE of Friction such that a hard swing of the bars would result in 
front wheel slip and understeer. 

Unloaded, it was always fun to bootleg a loop over there when not loaded 
because I could get the back end out with very judicious steering and power 
application and actually drift. Management would have frowned, the help did 
as little caloric consumption as possible on the clock in the heat of the 
cast house.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Saturday, July 9, 2022 at 8:21:07 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I like the idea, but turn it into a real Clem or whatever tricycle with 
> Tryit -2-wheel multispeed cassette drive, rear brake (instead of usual 
> dual-front brakes), long platform for a big but light to-fit wooden box, or 
> Riv-specific bigger-than-Newsboy basket, or bigger-than Large Happysack 
> rear bag. Tricycles make the best load carriers, IME; I mean, they are 
> fun to ride even with heavy rear loads, which don't affect handling the way 
> they do on 2-wheelers.
>
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2022 at 2:48 PM J Imler  wrote:
>
>> Putting it out into the universe.
>>
>> [image: Screen Shot 2022-07-08 at 1.37.31 PM.png]
>>
>> -- 
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>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/a880dc18-e65b-42f1-a2db-9c60df73b0e6n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Bike check: Mike Varley's Tesch road bike

[ascpgh]

Really nice bike and images!

Those shots illustrate why I wondered a good bit beyond where I should have 
with my RB-1 while in Northwest Arkansas. Sometimes the power of places is 
more attractive than how you get there, so it's whatever gets you there. My 
places were often unpaved so my objective mode is 650B with a dynamo. I 
needed to lower the frequency of changing/patching tubes of my 
Rambouillet's 700 x 32s when out on trips (that's when you go places, 
"rides" can be done on rollers in the basement or front porch).

Andy Cheatham 
Pittsburgh

On Thursday, July 7, 2022 at 6:59:44 PM UTC-4 Andrew Turner wrote:

> I bought this bike a few months ago and quickly fell in love with it. It's 
> reached the final form so I took some pics and did a little write-up. Just 
> keep scrollin' :) 
>
> Cheers, 
> Andrew 
>
> https://www.lickcreekrambler.com/
>

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[RBW] Re: Free for postage: cheap (but nice) "Tifosi" sunglasses

[ascpgh]

Another middle maker (that space between "so cheap they're a hazard to your 
eyes"  and "too precious") here:
Peppers 
They sell directly via their website or you can try them at REI and other 
retail suppliers. Sad to have corrected vision or I'd check out their 
outlet store at Pepper's World HQ,  tucked into Polish Hill here in 
Pittsburgh. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 12:41:48 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:

> Fun fact, Tifosi Optics is headquartered in Watkinsville, GA a small town 
> near Athens, GA. Their glasses are good value and though I have always 
> preferred Oakley I have owned several pair of Tifosi. Currently, I wear 
> shaded safety glasses because I am just that cheap. Dewalt for me.
> Doug
> Athens, GA
>
> On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 10:06:36 AM UTC-4 philipr...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Tifosi are great value & they sell spare parts for them!
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 3:22:25 AM UTC-5 R. Alexis wrote:
>>
>>> Whoever got these, I have a zippered case along with microfiber 
>>> storage/cleaning bag that you can have. One less thing hanging around my 
>>> house. Let me know. Same deal, free for postage. 
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Reginald Alexis
>>>
>>> On Sunday, June 12, 2022 at 5:33:24 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>>>
 I will add that, after owning Rudy Projects and Bolles and other Hi End 
 cycling shades, I cannot say that these are inferior in performance to 
 those.

 FWIW.

 On Sun, Jun 12, 2022 at 4:29 PM Patrick Moore  
 wrote:

> A resounding silence from the iBoblist in response to this my more 
> than generous offer, so I'm picking up my toys and going home. Humph.
>
> These cost me only $25 so I bought 5 different models including (for 
> reason I forget) 2 of this model. I'll keep 4 and give this away.
>
> If anyone on the RBW list wants these, he/she/neuter/etc. is welcome 
> to them, with the following conditions:
>
> 1. Please take only if you will use.
>
> 2. Please be patient about shipping.
>
> 3. No case.
>
> In case it matters, you can call these "cycling" glasses since I 
> bought them at a bike shop.
>
> Patrick Moore, happily annoying the unco guid, in ABQ, NM
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>


 -- 

 ---
 Patrick Moore
 Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum



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Re: [RBW] Re: A Quiet Ride and Thoughts of Bicycle Commuting

[ascpgh]

gt; general, many improvements so-called to everyday life have been 
>> technologies that do things for you and therefore remove agency and the 
>> resulting pleasure; remove agency except the very basic, almost pre-human 
>> agencies of adding inputs without having to think about results; and by 
>> technologies I mean administrative systems as well as machines. Almost 3 
>> decades ago a friend on a modestly successful upward career path as a 
>> commercial loan officer at a regional bank left after the bank was bought 
>> by a much bigger bank that had rationalized everything and put into place 
>> their program of using statistical analysis to reduce loan decisions to a 
>> checklist instead of what he found fulfilling: getting to know people and 
>> sizing up their circumstances and character, and forecasting outcomes based 
>> on this judgment.
>>
>> And 20 years ago, when I was married to a pediatrician, the big hospitals 
>> (here in flyover ABQ, NM) had been more and more making diagnosis and 
>> treatment a matter of following rationalized, statistically tested, general 
>> checklists, with other checklists to measure "productivity." She is now in 
>> 1-woman private practice, and good for her.
>>
>> Is this what you mean?
>>
>> It's funny and sad that more and more -- not only hard, dirty, dangerous 
>> physical labor, but human thought and creativity has been replaced by 
>> rationalized systems evaluated statistically, so that even some previously 
>> professional work has been reduced to hewing wood and drawing water, 
>> metaphorically speaking: plugging in inputs. This started of course with 
>> manufacturing.
>>
>> I agree that the same trend seems to be taking over cycling, with the 
>> difference that the ultimate agency in cycling is still the person that 
>> pedals. Still, I too like friction, when I don't use the primitive indexing 
>> on Sturmey Archer hubs, or give it all up altogether for fixed drivetrains 
>> -- because of agency.
>>
>> I do not by any means consider Matthew Crawford a sage, but he's an 
>> intelligent and well educated man who has actually thought through this 
>> sort of thing and expressed his conclusions with surprising clarity for 
>> someone trained as an academic, this in *Shop Class as Soul Craft* and *The 
>> World Beyond Your Head.* Both books assert generally that real-life 
>> confrontation and engagement with real things, notably in the manual 
>> trades*, are much more conducive to virtue** than coding software or even 
>> -- the clientele I write for -- managing the strategies and general 
>> direction and design of business systems, be these entire corporations or 
>> business units or product portfolios or global IT systems using statistical 
>> methods and working to meet the quarterly numbers. Yes, doing otherwise 
>> does indeed put a limit on practical size.
>>
>> Crawford worked as a journeyman electrician, and owns a business 
>> restoring classic motorcycles.
>>
>> * Hands-on trades: plumbing, auto mechanics, framing, and I daresay, 
>> though he doesn't extend his descriptions to them, cooking, interior 
>> design, event planning, stock raising, farming on a family scale.
>>
>> ** "Arete," the perfection or fulfillment and thus flourishing of a 
>> specific (= species) kind. The virtue of a hammer is to be well balanced, 
>> properly weighted, and because of this to drive nails efficiently. Crawford 
>> means both the specific excellences of character and the specific 
>> excellences of the practical intelligence; the speculative intelligence is 
>> beyond him. Suntour's classic bar cons by this criterion are highly 
>> virtuous shifting devices. Forget the idea of "virtue" in the modern sense 
>> as something that makes you give up stuff.
>>
>> On Sun, May 1, 2022 at 4:45 AM ascpgh  wrote:
>>
>>> ... So much in our lives has been optimized and refined to make things 
>>> less of an effort in general that a part of my brain is left unsatisfied by 
>>> the resulting lack of problem solving, coping or effort, mental or 
>>> physical, that is necessary in a day. 
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> -- 
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
>

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[RBW] Re: A Quiet Ride and Thoughts of Bicycle Commuting

[ascpgh]

Doug, I've been commuting year round for fifteen years so far. It is the 
best part of my day. since I start and finish by doing something I enjoy

I work in an urban hospital with remote parking and shuttle bus service 
that I would not know how to navigate since bike commuting is so much 
easier of an approach. I park in the garage next to the elevator lobby, 
security cameras overseeing my bike in the rack. My commute is about the 
same duration as my colleagues bus from the parking lots when considering 
their wait for "the next" shuttle because one just left or was full. They 
also have to dress for the same weather as I do, or should. 

I gain my daily start of peace, personal effort and the benefits of the 
time with increased circulation as I ply the unexpectedly quiet streets. 
The benefit at the end of my long days is just as nice. If I've accumulated 
a black cloud over my head like Charlie Brown, I don't get into the car 
with it intact, drive home with it and bring it in the house with me. My 
ride home separates me from that and sometimes I will even take the long 
way home to ensure that. 

I began commuting when the security of a bike parked for 12-14 hours was a 
risk so I did not ride my Rambouillet and got a Surly Disc Trucker in dark 
green as my rack bait bike (I let it be sort of filthy aside from the 
drivetrain, cables and housings for camoflage). I did change the front 
wheel to a dyno hub, saddle to a B-17 and bars to a Nitto RM-03. No one 
wants to steal an old steel bike with bar end shifters and an antique 
saddle bag. when others come with their flashy-colored, STI shifted, CFRP, 
deep section wheel things. 

I was involved in design and placement of racks and facilities for bike 
commuters when the current green facility was in its final stages prior to 
opening. I wear scrubs at work and they fold nicely for changing from 
cycling appropriate clothing. I have my Carradice Nelson LongFlap on my 
saddle loops. I have mounted my mini pump's frame mount bracket on the 
lateral dowel inside the bag and I have my scrubs and a small stuff sack 
with wallet, ID, lunch etc. in a "summit bag", a glorified 
shoulder-strapped stuff sack for climbers to use on a summit effort so they 
don't have to lug their whole backpack to the top of a mountain. It fits 
right into the Nelson. I replace my summit bag with my cycling shoes, 
helmet, gloves and cap in the Nelson as I lock up. As a long time convert 
to clipless pedals/shoes I'm willing to cope with stowing them and carrying 
a pair of Crocs to wear from my bike to my locker where I keep the shoes 
I'll wear all day. I am able to be fully sufficient in my commuting and 
don't need a stock day to preposition or collect clothing. I leave my two 
locks on the rack, it's a spot that has three CCTV cameras on constant feed 
to the facility police to account for entry and exit of vehicles, 
approach/entry of elevator lobby. It's a modern pediatric research and 
teaching facility with outpatient and inpatient services in the same 
campus, built recently with the latest degree of safety and security 
incorporated. 

So much in our lives has been optimized and refined to make things less of 
an effort in general that a part of my brain is left unsatisfied by the 
resulting lack of problem solving, coping or effort, mental or physical, 
that is necessary in a day. It's the the same reason that I use friction 
shifting and 8-spd cassettes on my Rambouillet upon reflection. Bicycling 
to work gives me a controlled exposure to things that challenge the normal, 
starting with weather. I appreciate the experience resulting from 
responding to things like the cold, wet, changing road conditions, traffic 
and events that challenge my normal routine and have kept me alert, poised 
to alter my paradigm and exercise my situational awareness to start and end 
each day. May not be a rewarding route to ride or as long of a ride as I 
might prefer some days and the bike is not perhaps my first choice for the 
experience. Use it or lose it applies and I'd rather use it. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh. 
On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 9:41:39 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:

> I rode today and noticed the quietness of my Clem. The friction shifting 
> is almost noiseless and the Silver2 shifter is perfect. The front shifter 
> is the clickety Sun Race that works just fine but does make noise. After a 
> somewhat stressful day at work the ride was just what I needed. I have 
> considered commuting but haven't taken the plunge yet. My commute would be 
> 50 minutes and about 9 miles each way I think, which isn't bad and would 
> help clear my mind. I know Roberta has started bicycle commuting and I'd 
> love to hear hers and others experiences, challenges and benefits.
> Doug
> Athens, Ga
>

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[RBW] Re: Best all-around useful saddlebag?

[ascpgh]

I have used a Carradace Nelson Longflap I've used for daily commuting and 
overnight trips for 20 years now. For medium and higher trail bikes putting 
loads on the rear are less detrimental to handling than the front. The 
Nelson's lateral shape keeps things as well forward as possible. I got it 
for a ridiculously light ride across the country (credit card camping and 
eating) on my Rambouillet. Simple, useful and adaptable.

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 6:20:56 PM UTC-4 Chris K wrote:

> Hi all - I'm new to the group and figured you all would have opinions on 
> "the best all-around useful saddle bag," if you could only own one.
>
> For context, I ride a Bridgestone CB-0 set up with a front rack and Wald 
> basket. This is great, but I sometimes wish for a little more capacity in 
> the form of a bag. Based on Rivendell's site, the Bagboy or the Happisack 
> seem to fit this "all-around useful" purpose and size. I mostly ride around 
> town but want to do some overnights this summer as well.
>
> Would you recommend definitely getting one over the other? I'm also 
> looking at the Swift Zeitgeist or Catalyst.
>
> Thanks!
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Two Lone Wolves Go On A Riv Ride

[ascpgh]

More junk for a burgeoning junkie: Flickr album: Riv Rally East April 
20-22, 2012 <https://www.flickr.com/groups/1923867@N25/pool/>

I'm headed out this week for a two-day lone wolf ride on the GAP. I got an 
Amtrak+bike ticket for the return trip from Cumberland but the calendar at 
home changed and I have to ride on another day, no train bike hook slots 
available for the trip home. My wife (calendar owner) offered to pick me 
up. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Friday, April 15, 2022 at 7:29:35 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Andy, that’s Marc! Sheltering in his tent from the snow? A true Lone Wolf, 
> God bless him. I’ll have to ask him about this ride. 80 degrees and then 
> snow! April is a dirty trickster - fills one with false hope and then dumps 
> snow on it. 
>
> Adding group rides and rides with pals has really enriched my bike life, 
> and like a junkie, riding is all I want to do now. The more miles I go, the 
> more I want. It just does something for me; maybe it’s the experience my 
> senses get. It’s the scent of pine trees. The sound of the road under your 
> tires. The clicking of gears. All the new scenery, and especially the 
> wildlife here - I always get to see animals. The birdsong. Lakes and ponds 
> teeming with life. Yes,  my regular duties are at risk of being neglected; 
> the weather is only getting nicer and it is greening up out there. 
>
> Send help.
> Leah
>
> On Apr 15, 2022, at 6:25 AM, ascpgh  wrote:
>
> Leah,  I love to hear stories like this. Is this Marc (pointing)?
>
> [image: DSC00922.JPG]
> He joined a handful of us in April 2012 for the Riv Rally East. We met and 
> rode from Cumberland, MD to Ohiopyle, PA where this picture was taken. 
> Temps at dinner Friday in old Cumberland neared 80°, a few hours after this 
> picture Marc was sheltering from the snow in his tent and I was riding home 
> in it.
>
> Highly support lone wolf riding and finding others through groups, even if 
> they aren't your thing outright. This one was a great rolling two day ride 
> and overnight. Marc was a wonderful addition and came from the farthest. A 
> Nor' Easter on the coast concerned many who for their drive home so we 
> adjourned from Ohiopyle after touring Frank Lloyd Wright's Falling Water 
> house. Marc shook off the incoming snow and camped that night in the state 
> park before heading back to Michigan. 
>
> The event definitely wrapped up lone wolf style for both of us. 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
>
> On Thursday, April 14, 2022 at 3:10:40 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> [image: 35321691-70AE-4F2E-9F99-01BFDA8B4292.jpeg][image: 
>> F8D27243-95F0-403F-B2AC-81A9C323F25B.jpeg]I have had precious few 
>> chances to meet Rivendell riders in real life. I’ve been a Lone Wolf 
>> forever, always riding alone and never in the vicinity of other Rivendells. 
>> I decided 10 years was enough of that and when we moved to Michigan, I 
>> joined a bike club. Jon D, out of Colorado, told me about Marc, another 
>> Lone Wolf Riv Rider in my city. So, I emailed him and we met at a bike club 
>> board meeting. His Riv is a 2012 Sam Hillborne; don’t ask him how many 
>> miles are on it, he’s a Just Ride purist who doesn’t keep track of such 
>> silly details. But, it can be concluded from these photos, that that Lone 
>> Wolf likes a color-matching theme as much as this Lone Wolf does. 
>>
>> Anyway, he rides everywhere, all the time, and is a wealth of information 
>> about the city and surrounding communities. He’s also kind, so he will 
>> share it. We have been trying to organize a ride to help me get my bearings 
>> in the city, but the weather has thwarted every effort…until today. Lesser 
>> devoted riders might have stayed out of the wind and cool temps, but no way 
>> were we cancelling AGAIN.
>>
>> I had been floundering, trying to find safe routes into downtown from 
>> where I live, but today I was shown some better routes on roads I wouldn’t 
>> have discovered for months. We rode about 20 miles in high winds to find 
>> and explore the bike route options in the city. Despite the weather we had 
>> a fantastic time. I highly recommend exploration by bike; it’s the best way 
>> to really KNOW a place.
>>
>> Pictured is the halfway point of our ride; conveniently, at a coffee shop 
>> in downtown. It made me ridiculously happy to see these two lovely bikes 
>> parked together. 
>>
>> I think we should make this an official club ride for members who want to 
>> use their bikes in the city, and there are getting to be more members in 
>> that category all the time.
>>  
>> (Formerly) Lone 

Re: [RBW] Re: Show Me Your Atlantis!

[ascpgh]

Nice hue, Hugh! That's an Atlantis advertising genetics it shares with an 
early stablemate in that color. Not creamsicle, but it doesn't take much to 
conjure Rambouillet.

Nice build, I'm sure eager for your impressions of the Onyx hubs, 
especially after you've ridden some miles and several sets of tires. I love 
the good news of parts that are really worthy and hope those live up to 
your feelings for your XTR RD. 

Andy Cheatham 



On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 1:12:38 PM UTC-4 Hugh Smitham wrote:

> Morning Bill,
>
> And happy spring. Life's been busy these days so the final push to build 
> was constantly delayed,  once I peeled some time off it went pretty quick. 
> I spent some time prepping the frame previously with frame saver and 
> helicopter tape in the vulnerable areas since it will see dirt and rocks.
>
> Regarding tire size, it is maxed out. Especially in the rear and 
> particularly because of the motolites, they're a great brake but the noodle 
> and straddle cable sit pretty low. The tires are 650b x2.2.
>
> I appreciate the praise,  orange, purple and green are favorites colors of 
> mine and yeah it does work.  I have only ridden it 9 miles on a MUP  But it 
> is very fun to ride. Maybe because of the tire choice but it rides 
> completely different from my road Atlantis.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Hugh 
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 13, 2022, 4:48 AM Bill Fulford  wrote:
>
>> I’ve been waiting for this bike to show up and it’s been worth the wait! 
>> Very impressive. I like the Atlantis with big tires, what size? It appears 
>> maxed. I never would have thought that orange and purple would work. But it 
>> certainly has. That looks like a very fun bike to ride!
>>
>> On Sunday, March 13, 2022 at 4:23:49 AM UTC-4 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Jon!
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 7:39 PM Jon Dukeman  wrote:
>>>
 That's a beautiful build Hugh!!!


 On Sat, Mar 12, 2022, 7:29 PM Hugh Smitham  wrote:

> Howdy Atlantis Folks,
>
> Been a while but I'm finally ready to show my Orange'Lantis off. 
> Finished the build last night and took it for a spin on the LA River MUP 
> today and did a little photo shoot. Beautiful day all and all. Not sure 
> the 
> Map Ahearn bars will stay but here it is in all it's Orangey glory.
>
> https://flic.kr/s/aHsmX5PDmW
>
> Hugh
>
> On Saturday, October 9, 2021 at 10:40:49 AM UTC-7 Hugh Smitham wrote:
>
>> Hi Rivy Peps,
>>
>> There's a lotta love for many of the Riv models out there and rightly 
>> so but I think the flagship model born from the original all-rounder 
>> needs 
>> some attention. So in that spirit let's see you Atlantis. Extra points 
>> for 
>> close-up pictures of your cockpit and other details like wheels, but we 
>> of 
>> course want to see a nice portrait too!
>>
>> Let's have some fun!
>>
>> Hugh Smiitham
>> Los Angeles, CA
>>
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[RBW] Re: Pigeonholed in Bicycle Philosophy

[ascpgh]

Rich, that's a nice bike and color too! Reminds me of the "tusk" of the 
MB-0 I had long ago. 

Those Dia Compe brakes have that aesthetic of  Mafac (and Paul Neo Retro) 
cantilevers. I agree with your riding/handling impressions and of Johnny as 
well. My bike's finish in that color was chosen by my consorts to the Coast 
shop who saw and insisted on the "French Vanilla" upon seeing his recent 
NAHBS bike awaiting shipment. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh

On Wednesday, March 9, 2022 at 10:55:15 AM UTC-5 RichS wrote:

> Andy, that's an enviable and enjoyable album. Johnny is really nice and 
> his tucked away atelier is a steel art and craft happening. Not well 
> documented but here is my thing in its final "happened" state. Riv content: 
> it's what got me pigeonholed here:-)
>
> Best,
> Rich in ATL
>
>
> On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 9:48:44 PM UTC-5 ascpgh wrote:
>
>> An album of the thing happening: 
>> https://photos.app.goo.gl/PxJUkK7TtCQSdk2A7
>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>>
>> On Sunday, March 6, 2022 at 1:00:15 PM UTC-5 J. W. wrote:
>>
>>> Lovely post Andy. You wrote:
>>>
>>> The conclusions that I have found and my riding objectives shaped the 
>>>> bike I had made for me and those objective needs. I took 20 years of 
>>>> almost 
>>>> there, but have it nailed now. 
>>>
>>>
>>> I am new here so I haven't seen it if you've posted it before--can you 
>>> post a picture of this bike? Thanks! Jon in Montreal
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Tire choice, tubeless vs. tubes

[ascpgh]

+1 to NIck's point. 

Tubeless is a good choice if you ride often enough or are disciplined 
enough to keep your sealant circulated and the tire is an appropriate size. 
My trusted LBS feels that 42 is the width that clearly reaches the positive 
benefit/detriment balance (that was relative to my conversation regarding 
650B wheels).Their feeling comes from combined experiences with 
conversions, bike and wheel builds as well as maintenance of customer bikes 
with all sorts of tubeless wheels. They sell plenty of mountain and trail 
bikes but also stock RH, SON, B and Orange Seal products. They're too 
small to stock everything so they have already discriminated to inventory. 
A nice treat compared to either the brand shop stocking only the mother 
ship's product or the P-mart wannabe LBS with every product made on the 
shelf. Experience is pointless if not shared.

I heeded their advice with my Baby Shoe Pass bike when building it up. I 
had been in the tubed camp before that out of inertia and a lack of 
experience. With their encouragement and having read of many listers' 
adventures with tubeless, I moved beyond my hesitations. With respect to 
their input and my own insight, my 700x40 commuter remains tubed partly 
because it's a 90% likelihood it will be dark if I did have a flat and I'm 
not interested enough in the tubeless benefits for the Schwalbe Marathon 
tires to face the task of using a tube to inflate a failed tubeless tire on 
the roadside, at night after a long day at work. Certainly not interested 
in arriving to work late, covered in liberated tubeless sealant following 
the task.

I think you'll enjoy the newfound lightness and ride of your tubeless 
setup.  

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh


On Tuesday, March 8, 2022 at 8:48:16 PM UTC-5 rmro...@gmail.com wrote:

> Greetings. I plan to install either Rene Herse Juniper Ridge (48mm) or 
> Umtanum Ridge (55mm) tires on my new Clem Smith Jr. It currently has G1 all 
> round tires in 2.25" width (57mm). Running tubes currently, considering 
> tubeless. I actually quite like the G1 tires but they are heavy. I weigh 
> 170 lbs. and use the bike primarily for mixed surface rides, preferably 
> smooth gravel / hardpack including light touring / bikepacking. I have the 
> Fleecer Ridge (55mm) tires on a different bike and they are pretty great 
> tubeless. I am leaning towards the Junipers to insure ample room for 
> (future?) fenders but interested in others opinions, especially on a Clem. 
> In any case I will likely use the standard casing and the rims are 
> Cliffhangers. I have had favorable comments from a couple of Juniper users 
> but have yet to talk to anyone using the larger tire.
> Thanks!
>

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