[RBW] Re: Is the Clem a Hillibike?

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Length is not a limiting factor. Yes, you will need to take different lines 
than on a shorter wheelbased bike, but you will be more stable doing so. 
The main factor you have to adjust to as a rider in tight, obstacled turns 
is plotting two lines, one for each wheel. In general, I swing 
wider/smoother with my front tire and my rear tire takes a tighter, 
jouncier line. Works just fine.

With abandon,
Patrick 

On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 11:39:50 AM UTC-6, theenchantingwizardofrhythm 
wrote:
>
> Woah - blown away by all the feedback - love it!
>
> So, Ive actually taken the Clem out on a few group rides with people on 
> "gravel bikes". Theyre always confused why I arrived with a "cruiser" - 
> until we get to dirt - and especially when we get to dirt climbs - and then 
> theyre even more confused to see me sail by with a smile. I get a lot of 
> credit as a rider - but I know that its the land-yacht I'm riding, not 
> these lanky legs. 
>
> Those rides though never really had very technical single-track, and thats 
> the open question. My buddy has since clarified that what worries him is 
> the sheer length of said land-yacht that may prove challenging for me. 
> Either way, sadly, turns out I cant even make it out to this trip :( - so 
> no ride report this time. But im going to test the limits soon! Thanks for 
> all the info and encouragement!
>
> Attached is a photo testing how to haul the bike. Not sure who's hauling 
> who here :))
>
> ps - loved the videos! @Adam L  - did I catch a glimpse of Revit there? 
> another architect in the room?
>
>
>
> On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 9:01:47 AM UTC+3, theenchantingwizardofrhythm 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi there - first time poster 
>> and coming at you from Tel Aviv, possibly(?) the only Riv owner this side 
>> of Mesopotamia...
>>
>> I got myself a 59 Clem H which I love oh so dearly
>> My friends, equipped with hard-tail mountain-bikey-bikes, are going out 
>> for a couple day off-rode ride that includes some singletrack.
>> They say I probably can't hang with the Clem.
>>
>> So what do you think?
>> Should I go out confident that the silver steed will hold its own?
>> or am I setting myself up for a world of pain and a bruised bike? 
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> gk
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Is the Clem a Hillibike?

[Brendan Willard in SF]

Same wheelbase on both rides there!  As a fellow Riv AND Suzuki owner, I 
approve.  

I too have been wondering about riding rigid along with the squish crew, so 
the thread has been a good read.

Looking forward to the ride report when it happens.

Best,
Brendan

On Saturday, May 9, 2020 at 10:39:50 AM UTC-7, theenchantingwizardofrhythm 
wrote:
>
> Woah - blown away by all the feedback - love it!
>
> So, Ive actually taken the Clem out on a few group rides with people on 
> "gravel bikes". Theyre always confused why I arrived with a "cruiser" - 
> until we get to dirt - and especially when we get to dirt climbs - and then 
> theyre even more confused to see me sail by with a smile. I get a lot of 
> credit as a rider - but I know that its the land-yacht I'm riding, not 
> these lanky legs. 
>
> Those rides though never really had very technical single-track, and thats 
> the open question. My buddy has since clarified that what worries him is 
> the sheer length of said land-yacht that may prove challenging for me. 
> Either way, sadly, turns out I cant even make it out to this trip :( - so 
> no ride report this time. But im going to test the limits soon! Thanks for 
> all the info and encouragement!
>
> Attached is a photo testing how to haul the bike. Not sure who's hauling 
> who here :))
>
> ps - loved the videos! @Adam L  - did I catch a glimpse of Revit there? 
> another architect in the room?
>
>
>
> On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 9:01:47 AM UTC+3, theenchantingwizardofrhythm 
> wrote:
>>
>> Hi there - first time poster 
>> and coming at you from Tel Aviv, possibly(?) the only Riv owner this side 
>> of Mesopotamia...
>>
>> I got myself a 59 Clem H which I love oh so dearly
>> My friends, equipped with hard-tail mountain-bikey-bikes, are going out 
>> for a couple day off-rode ride that includes some singletrack.
>> They say I probably can't hang with the Clem.
>>
>> So what do you think?
>> Should I go out confident that the silver steed will hold its own?
>> or am I setting myself up for a world of pain and a bruised bike? 
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> gk
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Is the Clem a Hillibike?

[YQ]

Hi GK - welcome!

I thought I would add my two cents because I have a Riv Atlantis set up for 
trail riding and recently bought a hardtail Santa Cruz Chameleon. I believe 
that whether you can hang with your friends will come down to the type of 
terrain you will be riding and your friends' skill and fitness level. The 
main thing I would consider is whether or not you will have fun based on 
where you are going to ride and the friends you are going to be riding with 
(irrespective of keeping up or not). I have found that if the terrain is 
too challenging for the bike or my skill level, I end up being too scared 
and beat up to enjoy the ride. But if your bike and skill level are a good 
match for the terrain, you'll have a lot of fun regardless of whether your 
friends are in front of you or behind you. A Clem can definitely be a lot 
of fun on singletrack, but singletrack can mean a lot of different 
things

-Yakeen

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[RBW] Re: Is the Clem a Hillibike?

[masmojo]

Everything is relative; I don't think the bike will hold you up, but you and 
the bike could hold your friends up.
Single track means different things to different people depending on their 
local conditions. I could take my Clem(entine) on much of the trails I used to 
race on in East Texas with no real issue & have a blast doing it. Some of the 
trails around Central Texas? Maybe not.
August before last my son & I did a road trip to the West coast; I rode 
Chuckwagon in Sedona & Repack in Fairfax. (On my Surly Ogre) I  could have done 
Repack on my Clementine (it would have been a gas), but Chuckwagon on the 
Clementine? One or both of us would have gotten broken!

So, the answer to your question is . . . . Maybe.

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[RBW] Re: Is the Clem a Hillibike?

[Joe Bernard]

"Should I go out confident that the silver steed will hold its own?
or am I setting myself up for a world of pain and a bruised bike?"

I'll try this again after my rather confused two answers last night: I'm not 
sure it will hold its own if all your buddies have front suspension, you are 
setting yourself up for a world of pain, your bike will be fine. 

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[RBW] Re: Is the Clem a Hillibike?

['Deacon Patrick' via RBW Owners Bunch]

All other things being equal, a hardtail will out climb a bouncy bike and a 
bouncy bike will out descend a hardtail. The simple answer is, of course 
you can do it. Keep in mind, you will need to ride the trails differently 
than they do (Grant's ruminations on Mongolian style riding are excellent 
fodder here). Where they shred, you bob and weave. You'll have as much or 
more fun, and enjoy the trail in a very different way because of this. 
Bottom line, absolutely, Clem can handle it. Go. Have a blast. Enlighten 
your friend's ignorance. And you will have your own version of smooth 
riding. Grin. Enjoy, with abandon!

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 12:01:47 AM UTC-6, theenchantingwizardofrhythm 
wrote:
>
> Hi there - first time poster 
> and coming at you from Tel Aviv, possibly(?) the only Riv owner this side 
> of Mesopotamia...
>
> I got myself a 59 Clem H which I love oh so dearly
> My friends, equipped with hard-tail mountain-bikey-bikes, are going out 
> for a couple day off-rode ride that includes some singletrack.
> They say I probably can't hang with the Clem.
>
> So what do you think?
> Should I go out confident that the silver steed will hold its own?
> or am I setting myself up for a world of pain and a bruised bike? 
>
> Many thanks,
> gk
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Is the Clem a Hillibike?

[ANDREW ERMAN]

Cool video!

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 8:48 AM Adam Leibow  wrote:

> it depends how skilled your friends are VS. how skilled you are. the clem
> H is more than capable of riding fast technical stuff. i've done some fast
> technical offroad rides on my clem L no problem. i would argue suspension
> only helps if you are absolutely FLYING downhill. i know ive shared this
> video ad nauseam but this was shot on the clem L if it helps for reference:
> https://www.instagram.com/p/B2LYQMQlCdZ/
>
>
> On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 11:01:47 PM UTC-7,
> theenchantingwizardofrhythm wrote:
>>
>> Hi there - first time poster
>> and coming at you from Tel Aviv, possibly(?) the only Riv owner this side
>> of Mesopotamia...
>>
>> I got myself a 59 Clem H which I love oh so dearly
>> My friends, equipped with hard-tail mountain-bikey-bikes, are going out
>> for a couple day off-rode ride that includes some singletrack.
>> They say I probably can't hang with the Clem.
>>
>> So what do you think?
>> Should I go out confident that the silver steed will hold its own?
>> or am I setting myself up for a world of pain and a bruised bike?
>>
>> Many thanks,
>> gk
>>
>>
>> --
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> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2c97e370-5a27-46f9-96d8-548be869ae41%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Is the Clem a Hillibike?

[Jason Fuller]

I interpret Hillibike as a modern interpretation of a Klunker. Basically 
ditching all the new technology, but refining what's left. Anyway, that's 
more an esoteric discussion and has little to do with where you can ride 
the bike - I agree with others that you'll probably be working a lot harder 
/ getting more beat up than the other riders to get to the same place, but 
you absolutely can get to the same place on the Clem.  It would be a shame 
to miss out on an adventure like that based on the idea you need more than 
the Clem - you certainly don't - but it's more about whether your adventure 
pals are willing to wait for you at the end of technical stretches and 
such.  You might be waiting for them after smooth stretches! :D   

The only further consideration I would make is whether your tires are up to 
the terrain you'll be on.  If it's going to be mostly dirt with some 
technical bits, I'd put some 2.2" or 2.3" knobbies on there. 

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[RBW] Re: Is the Clem a Hillibike?

[Cameron Sharp]

+1 to what dstein said. 

My experience is that shreddability (that's a technical term) really varies 
with the rider. While riding mild singletrack, my friend and fellow RBW-er 
Adam L. is miles ahead of me on his full rigid Atlantis running two inch 
tires while I'm on his custom hardtail. He rides trails all the time and 
therefore knows how to shred an Atlantis while I only occasionally ride 
trails and therefore have no idea how to shred a machine purpose-built for 
shredding. If the skill gap is wide, technical bike shtuff will likely 
widen it further. 

All of that said, there's no reason why they couldn't go slower and y'all 
could just commit to having fun together as a group. I personally just 
purchased a 52cm Clem H that I'm planning to build up for some loaded dirt 
touring and I don't see any reason why it couldn't handle everything I'm 
interested in doing in the dirt (i.e. no rock gardens, no super-technical 
aggro singletrack, downhill, etc.). Someone at Riv HQ told me they did the 
Great Divide Mountain Bike Trail on a 26" wheeled Atlantis. So yeah, a lot 
is possible with the right attitude, the willpower to make it work, and the 
patience to enjoy yourself along the way. 

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[RBW] Re: Is the Clem a Hillibike?

[Adam Leibow]

it depends how skilled your friends are VS. how skilled you are. the clem H 
is more than capable of riding fast technical stuff. i've done some fast 
technical offroad rides on my clem L no problem. i would argue suspension 
only helps if you are absolutely FLYING downhill. i know ive shared this 
video ad nauseam but this was shot on the clem L if it helps for reference: 
https://www.instagram.com/p/B2LYQMQlCdZ/


On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 11:01:47 PM UTC-7, theenchantingwizardofrhythm 
wrote:
>
> Hi there - first time poster 
> and coming at you from Tel Aviv, possibly(?) the only Riv owner this side 
> of Mesopotamia...
>
> I got myself a 59 Clem H which I love oh so dearly
> My friends, equipped with hard-tail mountain-bikey-bikes, are going out 
> for a couple day off-rode ride that includes some singletrack.
> They say I probably can't hang with the Clem.
>
> So what do you think?
> Should I go out confident that the silver steed will hold its own?
> or am I setting myself up for a world of pain and a bruised bike? 
>
> Many thanks,
> gk
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Is the Clem a Hillibike?

[dstein]

>From what I recall, the hilibikes are meant for lighter trail riding, and 
not technical terrain/singletrack. Not that you can't ride that kind of 
stuff with it, but I wouldn't be able to keep up with more experienced 
riders with more capable bikes. I used to use a Hunqapillar for all kinds 
of trail riding, but I was pretty slow on that compared to my Jones which 
is my main mtn bike now. I don't have any experience with the Clem, so take 
that for what it's worth. But really depends on the type of terrain they're 
riding. But if they already are saying you 'can't hang' they sound like the 
kind of group who isn't going to be super patient if you're taking a little 
more time. 

That being said, it's all about your own capabilities. I've been riding 
with people on hardtail aluminum beat up 90's mountain bikes that smoked me 
on fs mountain bikes. And any one at Riv HQ can probably outride serious 
mtn bike riders on modern mtn bikes, those Riv employees are super strong 
riders. And 'some' singletrack might be totally doable. It is weird to me 
that they're on hardtails and claiming that, I get if they're on super fast 
suspension bikes. I do question the difference b/w their hardtails and a 
Clem in this scenario.

I would just be careful and set expectations properly. Again, nothing is 
stopping you from riding it anywhere. You and the bike would be fine. It's 
just a matter of the group you're with, and if you do find you need to slow 
it down, whether it's because the bike or your own skills, how cool are 
they going to be with it?

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[RBW] Re: Is the Clem a Hillibike?

[ANDREW ALLEN ERMAN]

Hi!  Glad to meet another member of the Clem family!  I have enjoyed riding 
my Clem H on trails with steep and long climbs (and descents).  The 
Rivendell description was accurate in my experience - you ride with the 
terrain instead of thru it.  For me, this meant paying more attention to 
the trail in front of me and making quick adjustments in anticipation. 
 This also meant I needed to go slower on the trail.  Overall, I enjoy this 
type of trail riding and did not find myself missing bike suspension.  In 
full disclosure, the type of aggressive riding one can do with full 
suspension has never appealed to me, so I can't contrast that kind of 
riding compared to what I do like.

Best,

Andy

PS  I also like the more upright position I have on my Clem compared to the 
more aggressive position I have experienced on the usual mountain bike. 

On Wednesday, May 6, 2020 at 11:01:47 PM UTC-7, theenchantingwizardofrhythm 
wrote:
>
> Hi there - first time poster 
> and coming at you from Tel Aviv, possibly(?) the only Riv owner this side 
> of Mesopotamia...
>
> I got myself a 59 Clem H which I love oh so dearly
> My friends, equipped with hard-tail mountain-bikey-bikes, are going out 
> for a couple day off-rode ride that includes some singletrack.
> They say I probably can't hang with the Clem.
>
> So what do you think?
> Should I go out confident that the silver steed will hold its own?
> or am I setting myself up for a world of pain and a bruised bike? 
>
> Many thanks,
> gk
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Is the Clem a Hillibike?

[Mark Roland]

+! Show them what a well-designed bike can do. You do not need front 
suspension to do an off road ride with some singletrack. Or to go fast on 
that singletrack. Take off your fenders if so equipped, put on the fat 
knobbies, and don't look back!

On Thursday, May 7, 2020 at 7:56:58 AM UTC-4, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY wrote:
>
> You should feel confident that you and it will be fine. You'll likely be 
> the fastest for fear of not being, but don't let that or anything else get 
> in the way of being the funhavingiest (with rhythm).
> -Kai

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