Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[RichS]

Dear Jeff,

Many thanks for posting such a comprehensive album of Jobst's gorgeous 
yellow bike. Anyone on this list has an affinity for lugs; but fillet 
brazing can look mighty nice as evidenced by Peter Johnson's fine work. I 
dig the "engineering" to shift the Carradice bag away from the saddle.

You're fortunate to live near a resource like the Bicycling Hall of Fame. 
Thanks again!

Best,
Rich in ATL

On Thursday, February 23, 2023 at 12:41:19 AM UTC-5 Jeff B wrote:

> As an aside to what modern bike Jobst might ride, here are some photos of 
> Jobst's bike at the US Bicycling Hall of Fame in Davis, CA. I'm not sure if 
> this was his final or second to last bike. I don't know if it is still 
> there and having it hanging from the ceiling makes it hard to photograph 
> and inspect but still very cool to see in person.
> Jobst's Bike 
>
> Jeff Burke
> Woodland, CA
>
> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 2:11:00 PM UTC-8 divis...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Not yet. I've gotten at least three email notifications this year that 
>> closure was imminent (*buy up now while you can*).
>>
>> A note: On several occasions in the past year, John has posted sales with 
>> 10%/15%/20% off all remaining items. The alleged discount does not appear 
>> online, but is supposed to be applied in the shopping basket at checkout. 
>> I've jumped in for two of these sales, and no general discount was applied 
>> to my shopping basket, using Safari 14/macOS. I don't know what browser his 
>> shopping mechanism is keyed to; I'm guessing it's Google Chrome. I don't 
>> know whether the discounted prices work with any browser at all.
>>
>> I could have phoned him and complained about it, but it felt petty. I 
>> like the stuff I bought, but it still sticks in my craw that I paid more 
>> than I was promised. If I order any of the scraps, I think I'm just going 
>> to phone the order in.
>>
>> Peter "aggressive shopping is a contact sport" Adler
>> Berkeley, CA/USA
>>
>> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 4:16:50 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Thanks, Kim, but while the website is still up I thought John Kucharik 
>> closed up shop and liquidated their inventory sometime in 2021 or 2022. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Jeremy Till]

Wow, I work on the UC Davis campus and pass by the USBHOF regularly but had 
no idea that they had acquired Jobst's bike. I'll have to go pay homage one 
of these days.  

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA

On Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 9:41:19 PM UTC-8 Jeff B wrote:

> As an aside to what modern bike Jobst might ride, here are some photos of 
> Jobst's bike at the US Bicycling Hall of Fame in Davis, CA. I'm not sure if 
> this was his final or second to last bike. I don't know if it is still 
> there and having it hanging from the ceiling makes it hard to photograph 
> and inspect but still very cool to see in person.
> Jobst's Bike 
>
> Jeff Burke
> Woodland, CA
>
> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 2:11:00 PM UTC-8 divis...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Not yet. I've gotten at least three email notifications this year that 
>> closure was imminent (*buy up now while you can*).
>>
>> A note: On several occasions in the past year, John has posted sales with 
>> 10%/15%/20% off all remaining items. The alleged discount does not appear 
>> online, but is supposed to be applied in the shopping basket at checkout. 
>> I've jumped in for two of these sales, and no general discount was applied 
>> to my shopping basket, using Safari 14/macOS. I don't know what browser his 
>> shopping mechanism is keyed to; I'm guessing it's Google Chrome. I don't 
>> know whether the discounted prices work with any browser at all.
>>
>> I could have phoned him and complained about it, but it felt petty. I 
>> like the stuff I bought, but it still sticks in my craw that I paid more 
>> than I was promised. If I order any of the scraps, I think I'm just going 
>> to phone the order in.
>>
>> Peter "aggressive shopping is a contact sport" Adler
>> Berkeley, CA/USA
>>
>> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 4:16:50 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Thanks, Kim, but while the website is still up I thought John Kucharik 
>> closed up shop and liquidated their inventory sometime in 2021 or 2022. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[John Dewey]

Jeff, thanks for the nice photographs of the yellow bike. Beautiful
machine, just about perfect, and not a spot of beausage. All you need and
nothing more.

JD

On Wed, Feb 22, 2023 at 9:41 PM Jeff B  wrote:

> As an aside to what modern bike Jobst might ride, here are some photos of
> Jobst's bike at the US Bicycling Hall of Fame in Davis, CA. I'm not sure if
> this was his final or second to last bike. I don't know if it is still
> there and having it hanging from the ceiling makes it hard to photograph
> and inspect but still very cool to see in person.
> Jobst's Bike 
>
> Jeff Burke
> Woodland, CA
>
> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 2:11:00 PM UTC-8 divis...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Not yet. I've gotten at least three email notifications this year that
>> closure was imminent (*buy up now while you can*).
>>
>> A note: On several occasions in the past year, John has posted sales with
>> 10%/15%/20% off all remaining items. The alleged discount does not appear
>> online, but is supposed to be applied in the shopping basket at checkout.
>> I've jumped in for two of these sales, and no general discount was applied
>> to my shopping basket, using Safari 14/macOS. I don't know what browser his
>> shopping mechanism is keyed to; I'm guessing it's Google Chrome. I don't
>> know whether the discounted prices work with any browser at all.
>>
>> I could have phoned him and complained about it, but it felt petty. I
>> like the stuff I bought, but it still sticks in my craw that I paid more
>> than I was promised. If I order any of the scraps, I think I'm just going
>> to phone the order in.
>>
>> Peter "aggressive shopping is a contact sport" Adler
>> Berkeley, CA/USA
>>
>> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 4:16:50 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Thanks, Kim, but while the website is still up I thought John Kucharik
>> closed up shop and liquidated their inventory sometime in 2021 or 2022.
>>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Jeff B]

As an aside to what modern bike Jobst might ride, here are some photos of 
Jobst's bike at the US Bicycling Hall of Fame in Davis, CA. I'm not sure if 
this was his final or second to last bike. I don't know if it is still 
there and having it hanging from the ceiling makes it hard to photograph 
and inspect but still very cool to see in person.
Jobst's Bike 

Jeff Burke
Woodland, CA

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 2:11:00 PM UTC-8 divis...@gmail.com wrote:

> Not yet. I've gotten at least three email notifications this year that 
> closure was imminent (*buy up now while you can*).
>
> A note: On several occasions in the past year, John has posted sales with 
> 10%/15%/20% off all remaining items. The alleged discount does not appear 
> online, but is supposed to be applied in the shopping basket at checkout. 
> I've jumped in for two of these sales, and no general discount was applied 
> to my shopping basket, using Safari 14/macOS. I don't know what browser his 
> shopping mechanism is keyed to; I'm guessing it's Google Chrome. I don't 
> know whether the discounted prices work with any browser at all.
>
> I could have phoned him and complained about it, but it felt petty. I like 
> the stuff I bought, but it still sticks in my craw that I paid more than I 
> was promised. If I order any of the scraps, I think I'm just going to phone 
> the order in.
>
> Peter "aggressive shopping is a contact sport" Adler
> Berkeley, CA/USA
>
> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 4:16:50 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
> Thanks, Kim, but while the website is still up I thought John Kucharik 
> closed up shop and liquidated their inventory sometime in 2021 or 2022. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Peter Adler]

Not yet. I've gotten at least three email notifications this year that 
closure was imminent (*buy up now while you can*).

A note: On several occasions in the past year, John has posted sales with 
10%/15%/20% off all remaining items. The alleged discount does not appear 
online, but is supposed to be applied in the shopping basket at checkout. 
I've jumped in for two of these sales, and no general discount was applied 
to my shopping basket, using Safari 14/macOS. I don't know what browser his 
shopping mechanism is keyed to; I'm guessing it's Google Chrome. I don't 
know whether the discounted prices work with any browser at all.

I could have phoned him and complained about it, but it felt petty. I like 
the stuff I bought, but it still sticks in my craw that I paid more than I 
was promised. If I order any of the scraps, I think I'm just going to phone 
the order in.

Peter "aggressive shopping is a contact sport" Adler
Berkeley, CA/USA

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 4:16:50 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks, Kim, but while the website is still up I thought John Kucharik 
closed up shop and liquidated their inventory sometime in 2021 or 2022. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Mackenzy Albright]

I really like the way the Skid Lid helmet looks! A bit reminiscent of the 
leather helmets. I wish that helmet design was a bit more diverse 
aesthetically. It's a bit lackluster the only major innovation in helmet 
tech has been the MIPS system. 

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 10:04:21 AM UTC-8 Jock Dewey wrote:

> In case any of you are new to Kurcharik, if there are woolies your size 
> snatch 'em up.
>
> I bought my first Kurcharik jersey in 2003 and twenty years later I'm 
> still wearing it in daily rotation. No visible wear save for some sunshine 
> fading on the backside. Otherwise looks brand new. Best deal ever!
>
>
>
> On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 9:20:42 AM UTC-8 John Dewey wrote:
>
>> I check regularly and all size S are gone nearly everywhere. Will miss 
>> these guys, they've been part of our consciousness for so many years. Great 
>> wool stuff at always reasonable prices. Good folks for sure.
>>
>> BEST / Jock Dewey
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 8:42 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> I am still or was until last week or so still getting "closeout sale" 
>>> emails from Kucharik; maybe they've finally shut down, but there were open 
>>> until very recently.
>>>
>>> Harth Huffman, on the Boblist, owns Wabi Woolens who make excellent 
>>> jerseys; better than Kucharik's IMO.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 5:16 AM Eric Marth  wrote:
>>>
 Thanks, Kim, but while the website is still up I thought John Kucharik 
 closed up shop and liquidated their inventory sometime in 2021 or 2022. 

 On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 11:01:14 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Eric,
>
> Try visiting Kucharick Bicycle Clothing. Going out of business sale !
> https://www.kucharik.com/
>
> I have bought some solid colored wool jerseys late last year from John 
> Kucharick. They are luxurious merino wool !
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA.
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 9:25:55 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> George — I do wish that there was more simple wool out there in nice 
>> solid colors and I think generally shorts are too long! 
>>
> -- 
>>>
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>>
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgsK8wgPv416Bhvezre8qTMgTypwuvx0zC%3DfpDJ_cYYxWA%40mail.gmail.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Jock Dewey]

In case any of you are new to Kurcharik, if there are woolies your size 
snatch 'em up.

I bought my first Kurcharik jersey in 2003 and twenty years later I'm still 
wearing it in daily rotation. No visible wear save for some sunshine fading 
on the backside. Otherwise looks brand new. Best deal ever!



On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 9:20:42 AM UTC-8 John Dewey wrote:

> I check regularly and all size S are gone nearly everywhere. Will miss 
> these guys, they've been part of our consciousness for so many years. Great 
> wool stuff at always reasonable prices. Good folks for sure.
>
> BEST / Jock Dewey
>
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 8:42 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> I am still or was until last week or so still getting "closeout sale" 
>> emails from Kucharik; maybe they've finally shut down, but there were open 
>> until very recently.
>>
>> Harth Huffman, on the Boblist, owns Wabi Woolens who make excellent 
>> jerseys; better than Kucharik's IMO.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 5:16 AM Eric Marth  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Kim, but while the website is still up I thought John Kucharik 
>>> closed up shop and liquidated their inventory sometime in 2021 or 2022. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 11:01:14 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Eric,

 Try visiting Kucharick Bicycle Clothing. Going out of business sale !
 https://www.kucharik.com/

 I have bought some solid colored wool jerseys late last year from John 
 Kucharick. They are luxurious merino wool !

 Kim Hetzel
 Yelm, WA.

 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 9:25:55 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> George — I do wish that there was more simple wool out there in nice 
> solid colors and I think generally shorts are too long! 
>
 -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgsK8wgPv416Bhvezre8qTMgTypwuvx0zC%3DfpDJ_cYYxWA%40mail.gmail.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[John Dewey]

I check regularly and all size S are gone nearly everywhere. Will miss
these guys, they've been part of our consciousness for so many years. Great
wool stuff at always reasonable prices. Good folks for sure.

BEST / Jock Dewey

On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 8:42 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I am still or was until last week or so still getting "closeout sale"
> emails from Kucharik; maybe they've finally shut down, but there were open
> until very recently.
>
> Harth Huffman, on the Boblist, owns Wabi Woolens who make excellent
> jerseys; better than Kucharik's IMO.
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 5:16 AM Eric Marth  wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Kim, but while the website is still up I thought John Kucharik
>> closed up shop and liquidated their inventory sometime in 2021 or 2022.
>>
>> On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 11:01:14 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Eric,
>>>
>>> Try visiting Kucharick Bicycle Clothing. Going out of business sale !
>>> https://www.kucharik.com/
>>>
>>> I have bought some solid colored wool jerseys late last year from John
>>> Kucharick. They are luxurious merino wool !
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel
>>> Yelm, WA.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 9:25:55 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 George — I do wish that there was more simple wool out there in nice
 solid colors and I think generally shorts are too long!

>>> --
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> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Patrick Moore]

He was prolific on the old rec.bicycles.tec site and had very
engineering-based opinions on just about every bike subject, which he
expressed loudly and often and agressively. Whoever maintains the Sheldon
Brown/Harris Cyclery website put together a Jobst page, very interesting:
https://sheldonbrown.com/brandt/

On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 7:03 AM Richard Rose  wrote:

> I have little to add to this discussion, except this; he was an engineer,
> correct? So whatever he would be riding & his reasoning would definitely be
> interesting.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Patrick Moore]

I am still or was until last week or so still getting "closeout sale"
emails from Kucharik; maybe they've finally shut down, but there were open
until very recently.

Harth Huffman, on the Boblist, owns Wabi Woolens who make excellent
jerseys; better than Kucharik's IMO.


On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 5:16 AM Eric Marth  wrote:

> Thanks, Kim, but while the website is still up I thought John Kucharik
> closed up shop and liquidated their inventory sometime in 2021 or 2022.
>
> On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 11:01:14 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Eric,
>>
>> Try visiting Kucharick Bicycle Clothing. Going out of business sale !
>> https://www.kucharik.com/
>>
>> I have bought some solid colored wool jerseys late last year from John
>> Kucharick. They are luxurious merino wool !
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA.
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 9:25:55 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> George — I do wish that there was more simple wool out there in nice
>>> solid colors and I think generally shorts are too long!
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Kim Hetzel]

Eric,

John Kucharick mentioned in an email to me that he's considering shutting
down his website at the end of March.

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA.

On Fri, Feb 3, 2023, 4:16 AM Eric Marth  wrote:

> Thanks, Kim, but while the website is still up I thought John Kucharik
> closed up shop and liquidated their inventory sometime in 2021 or 2022.
>
> On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 11:01:14 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Eric,
>>
>> Try visiting Kucharick Bicycle Clothing. Going out of business sale !
>> https://www.kucharik.com/
>>
>> I have bought some solid colored wool jerseys late last year from John
>> Kucharick. They are luxurious merino wool !
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA.
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 9:25:55 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> George — I do wish that there was more simple wool out there in nice
>>> solid colors and I think generally shorts are too long!
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 12:21:11 PM UTC-5 Eric Marth wrote:
>>>
>> Interesting discussion topic, Andrew. I picture Jobst today on a bike
 very similar to what he ran most of his life. Steel frame, no racks, rim
 brakes. Maybe a frame that would accommodate wider tires.

 Here's a picture of Jobst from his last Alpine tour in 2008 (read more
 here
 
 ).

 [image: xnemj6.jpg]

 I'm not sure what make of frames he was riding in this era. But after
 50 years of touring thousands of miles every summer in Italy, Switzerland
 and France (in addition to the long rides in California) I can't see him
 switching up and running racks or a rando build. He was famously ornery and
 I think he had his system right where he wanted it. He'd tour with a
 Carradice and stayed in hotels along the way (many with friends and
 families he'd met in the 1950s).

 As for frame material, this is of course a guess, but I'd wager he'd
 stick with steel. He rode well into the carbon era. As Tom shared in the
 Radavist article today Brandt would get a new frame every few years,
 worried about damage or fractures. He chose yellow paint for his bikes
 because he thought it was the best for highlighting damage. I could see his
 familiarity with steel keeping him on steel frames. And I could see the
 possibility of catastrophic failure keeping him from carbon.

 Regarding helmets, I don't think Brandt ever wore one. He probably
 shared an explanation for this back on rec.bicycles.tech but that's way
 before my time.

 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:55:43 AM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:

> True.  I remember those days.  The most you see in one or two of those
> photos are riders wearing "leather hair nets," except for one who looks
> like he has a mountaineering helmet.  Another thing I notice is much
> shorter cycling shorts, probably all wool with a natural chamois crotch.
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:31:48 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler
> wrote:
>
>> Those pictures were taken before helmets were commonly available.
>> During Bikecentennial helmets were rare. Steve
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:20 PM lconley  wrote:
>>
>>> One thing I notice in those photos is that no one was wearing a
>>> helmet.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM UTC-5
>>> andyree...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a
 nod to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier 
 gearing. As
 a result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you 
 spliced
 his timeline and moved his prime days to current day.

 Today's Radavist
 
  article
 really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who
 likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s).

 What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see
 a lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for
 performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando 
 build?

 Take it away if you wish,
 Andrew

>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[George Schick]

Ditto on the Skid Lid.  Never used it much, though, before the industry 
started to make some half way decent helmets - the ones with the thin 
plastic shell, lots of dense foam padding, and plenty of vents. Then again, 
I've been off and on when it comes to helmets over the past 50+ years of 
cycling (currently "off"). 

On Friday, February 3, 2023 at 8:53:48 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler wrote:

> I also had a Skid Lid in their largest size, as the sizes git smaller they 
> had more padding, same size shell for all. When they didn’t pass one iof 
> the safety tests my local shop gave us discounts on Bell V1 Pros if we 
> turned in the Skid Lid. This was late ‘70’s.  Steve
>
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 1:33 PM lconley  wrote:
>
>> My 1st helmet was a yellow Skid Lid to match my Yellow Paramount.
>>
>> [image: Skid Lid.JPG]
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 10:56:16 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> George,
>>>
>>> I, too, remember well those days. I use to own one of those "leather 
>>> hair nets". Then I graduated to a first issue Bell helmet. I wore and short 
>>> wool cycling shorts with a natural chamois insert.  Still love my wool 
>>> jerseys, arm and leg warmers, especially here in the Pacific Northwest. 
>>>
>>> Kim Hetzel
>>> Yelm, WA
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 8:55:43 AM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>>>
 True.  I remember those days.  The most you see in one or two of those 
 photos are riders wearing "leather hair nets," except for one who looks 
 like he has a mountaineering helmet.  Another thing I notice is much 
 shorter cycling shorts, probably all wool with a natural chamois crotch.


 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:31:48 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler wrote:

> Those pictures were taken before helmets were commonly available. 
> During Bikecentennial helmets were rare. Steve
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:20 PM lconley  wrote:
>
>> One thing I notice in those photos is that no one was wearing a 
>> helmet.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM UTC-5 
>> andyree...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a 
>>> nod to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. 
>>> As 
>>> a result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you 
>>> spliced 
>>> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>>>
>>> Today's Radavist 
>>> 
>>>  article 
>>> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
>>> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>>>
>>> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a 
>>> lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
>>> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando 
>>> build?  
>>>
>>> Take it away if you wish, 
>>> Andrew
>>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/085f1c7e-704b-4295-aac8-c57596035b15n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>
>
>> -- 
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>
 -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4836bd98-5fdb-42ea-8061-883bf634c563n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
> -- 
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Steven Sweedler]

I also had a Skid Lid in their largest size, as the sizes git smaller they
had more padding, same size shell for all. When they didn’t pass one iof
the safety tests my local shop gave us discounts on Bell V1 Pros if we
turned in the Skid Lid. This was late ‘70’s.  Steve

On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 1:33 PM lconley  wrote:

> My 1st helmet was a yellow Skid Lid to match my Yellow Paramount.
>
> [image: Skid Lid.JPG]
>
> Laing
>
> On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 10:56:16 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> George,
>>
>> I, too, remember well those days. I use to own one of those "leather hair
>> nets". Then I graduated to a first issue Bell helmet. I wore and short wool
>> cycling shorts with a natural chamois insert.  Still love my wool jerseys,
>> arm and leg warmers, especially here in the Pacific Northwest.
>>
>> Kim Hetzel
>> Yelm, WA
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 8:55:43 AM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>>
>>> True.  I remember those days.  The most you see in one or two of those
>>> photos are riders wearing "leather hair nets," except for one who looks
>>> like he has a mountaineering helmet.  Another thing I notice is much
>>> shorter cycling shorts, probably all wool with a natural chamois crotch.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:31:48 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler wrote:
>>>
 Those pictures were taken before helmets were commonly available.
 During Bikecentennial helmets were rare. Steve

 On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:20 PM lconley  wrote:

> One thing I notice in those photos is that no one was wearing a helmet.
>
> Laing
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod
>> to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a
>> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced
>> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day.
>>
>> Today's Radavist
>> 
>>  article
>> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who
>> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s).
>>
>> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a
>> lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for
>> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?
>>
>> Take it away if you wish,
>> Andrew
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/085f1c7e-704b-4295-aac8-c57596035b15n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .


> --
 Steven Sweedler
 Plymouth, New Hampshire

>>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4836bd98-5fdb-42ea-8061-883bf634c563n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
-- 
Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Richard Rose]

I have little to add to this discussion, except this; he was an engineer, correct? So whatever he would be riding & his reasoning would definitely be interesting.Sent from my iPhoneOn Jan 31, 2023, at 8:40 PM, Mackenzy Albright  wrote:Haha! Touché Eric. I feel like Brandt falls into the heros of the retrogrouch. Grant, Sheldon Brown, Rando Jan (not to be confused with Business Jan)Id love to hear a considerate counterpoint from somebody that says he'd be on a 54mm tire carbon open...On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 4:59:44 PM UTC-8 Eric Daume wrote:The Riv list imagining Jobst riding a steel frame with rim brakes? Shocking!EricOn Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 7:37 PM Philip Williamson  wrote:I think he'd ride a very similar bike today to the ones he rode for 50 years. Steel. He wasn't swayed by aluminum, titanium, or carbon, the first time around, so nu-Jobst wouldn't choose them either. Steel is still tough, reliable, and cheap. Fillet brazed? I imagine this was for aesthetics, but I'd need to dive into The Jobst Hole to find out. Rim brakes, not discs. Single pivot sidepulls (??) indicate no worries about stopping with a simple, light, rim brake. Supple tires, but still narrow. I would love to see Jobst and Jan debate the testing protocol.Downtube shifters. Simple, light, easy cabling, and there for the two times a day he'd shift. Yellow. Philip rec.bicycles.techOn Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:59:48 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:Laing, I think you made a lot of solid arguments. Custom steel still feels like the way he'd go, and probably not so dissimilar to his no-frills road bikes of yore. I'm certainly grateful for his impact on the bicycle, riders, and builders of today, and for the journalists keeping his name alive!On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 3:16:07 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:If he were still around, I think he would probably still have the same setup as the 2008 photo, steel, rim brakes, clipless pedals. But that is not the question that seems to have been posed. As I understand the question, it is if his prime days were now, what would he be riding - basically not a silent generation member, but a later millennial or early gen-Xer, but still a mechanical engineer, still concerned with reliability, and dare I say it, under-biking. So maybe he still ends up on a metal, rimmed braked bike. I think it may be easier to eliminate some things, I don't see him with electronic shifting, that just adds more possible unrepairable-on-the-road failure points. I want to say no disc either - as it adds stress to the fork and reduces the reliability of the front end of the bike. I kind of envision him on a stripped down 80th anniversary Rene-Herse or Rivendell Rodeo, or possibly some sort of titanium frame.I am a mechanical engineer also, but a boomer.LaingOn Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:42:06 PM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech that we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a bit of a retrogrouch could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily on his opinion towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub would be a yay or nay. As I'm typing this, I'm reminded of Ritchey's comment on his use of his shifters, or lack-there-of, so I'm leaning towards him reverting to shorter free-hub bodies. Hell, maybe he'd have beat Rivendell to the modern-day 7 speed rear hub! Or perhaps, the Rene Herse rear mech would tickle his fancy. Tough call. He'd certainly ride whatever it is to the ground though. On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:Andrew,Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.  A few things stood out to me:- they were/are all extremely fit.- fear was not a word in their vocabulary.- what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.- the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the work ;)JeffClaremont, CA(who's beloved stoker [Lori] continues to do all the work)On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. Today's Radavist article really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  Take it away if you wish, Andrew



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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[lconley]

My 1st helmet was a yellow Skid Lid to match my Yellow Paramount.

[image: Skid Lid.JPG]

Laing

On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 10:56:16 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> George,
>
> I, too, remember well those days. I use to own one of those "leather hair 
> nets". Then I graduated to a first issue Bell helmet. I wore and short wool 
> cycling shorts with a natural chamois insert.  Still love my wool jerseys, 
> arm and leg warmers, especially here in the Pacific Northwest. 
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 8:55:43 AM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:
>
>> True.  I remember those days.  The most you see in one or two of those 
>> photos are riders wearing "leather hair nets," except for one who looks 
>> like he has a mountaineering helmet.  Another thing I notice is much 
>> shorter cycling shorts, probably all wool with a natural chamois crotch.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:31:48 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler wrote:
>>
>>> Those pictures were taken before helmets were commonly available. During 
>>> Bikecentennial helmets were rare. Steve
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:20 PM lconley  wrote:
>>>
 One thing I notice in those photos is that no one was wearing a helmet.

 Laing

 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod 
> to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>
> Today's Radavist 
> 
>  article 
> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>
> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a 
> lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  
>
> Take it away if you wish, 
> Andrew
>
 -- 
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
 Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
 To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
 an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
 To view this discussion on the web visit 
 https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/085f1c7e-704b-4295-aac8-c57596035b15n%40googlegroups.com
  
 
 .

>>> -- 
>>> Steven Sweedler
>>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Eric Marth]

Thanks, Kim, but while the website is still up I thought John Kucharik 
closed up shop and liquidated their inventory sometime in 2021 or 2022. 

On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 11:01:14 PM UTC-5 krhe...@gmail.com wrote:

> Eric,
>
> Try visiting Kucharick Bicycle Clothing. Going out of business sale !
> https://www.kucharik.com/
>
> I have bought some solid colored wool jerseys late last year from John 
> Kucharick. They are luxurious merino wool !
>
> Kim Hetzel
> Yelm, WA.
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 9:25:55 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> George — I do wish that there was more simple wool out there in nice 
>> solid colors and I think generally shorts are too long! 
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 12:21:11 PM UTC-5 Eric Marth wrote:
>>
> Interesting discussion topic, Andrew. I picture Jobst today on a bike very 
>>> similar to what he ran most of his life. Steel frame, no racks, rim brakes. 
>>> Maybe a frame that would accommodate wider tires. 
>>>
>>> Here's a picture of Jobst from his last Alpine tour in 2008 (read more 
>>> here 
>>> 
>>> ). 
>>>
>>> [image: xnemj6.jpg]
>>>
>>> I'm not sure what make of frames he was riding in this era. But after 50 
>>> years of touring thousands of miles every summer in Italy, Switzerland and 
>>> France (in addition to the long rides in California) I can't see him 
>>> switching up and running racks or a rando build. He was famously ornery and 
>>> I think he had his system right where he wanted it. He'd tour with a 
>>> Carradice and stayed in hotels along the way (many with friends and 
>>> families he'd met in the 1950s). 
>>>
>>> As for frame material, this is of course a guess, but I'd wager he'd 
>>> stick with steel. He rode well into the carbon era. As Tom shared in the 
>>> Radavist article today Brandt would get a new frame every few years, 
>>> worried about damage or fractures. He chose yellow paint for his bikes 
>>> because he thought it was the best for highlighting damage. I could see his 
>>> familiarity with steel keeping him on steel frames. And I could see the 
>>> possibility of catastrophic failure keeping him from carbon. 
>>>
>>> Regarding helmets, I don't think Brandt ever wore one. He probably 
>>> shared an explanation for this back on rec.bicycles.tech but that's way 
>>> before my time. 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:55:43 AM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:
>>>
 True.  I remember those days.  The most you see in one or two of those 
 photos are riders wearing "leather hair nets," except for one who looks 
 like he has a mountaineering helmet.  Another thing I notice is much 
 shorter cycling shorts, probably all wool with a natural chamois crotch.


 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:31:48 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler wrote:

> Those pictures were taken before helmets were commonly available. 
> During Bikecentennial helmets were rare. Steve
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:20 PM lconley  wrote:
>
>> One thing I notice in those photos is that no one was wearing a 
>> helmet.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM UTC-5 
>> andyree...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a 
>>> nod to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. 
>>> As 
>>> a result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you 
>>> spliced 
>>> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>>>
>>> Today's Radavist 
>>> 
>>>  article 
>>> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
>>> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>>>
>>> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a 
>>> lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
>>> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando 
>>> build?  
>>>
>>> Take it away if you wish, 
>>> Andrew
>>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
>> send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/085f1c7e-704b-4295-aac8-c57596035b15n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
> -- 
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Piaw Na]

Paul: that picture is from the top of Stelvio pass. While it is long (48 
switchbacks) and about 6000' of climbing, it's actually a steady 7-10% 
grade, and nowhere as fearsome as some of the steepies here in the Bay 
Area. I did drag my 10 year old and 7 year old over the top of that pass 
last summer, and we did it over 3 days (the ebike didn't have enough 
battery to do it in one day while carrying luggage anyway). It felt like a 
lot of work, but having ridden it on my single it's an easy day ride for 
most bay area cyclists. The steepest thing Jobst regularly did in Europe 
was the Gavia, which was indeed a fearsome 16% grade on the south side on a 
one lane dirt road. I'm too terrified to descend it on the tandem or 
triplet, but have done it a few times on a single. One thing to keep in 
mind is that on these Italian passes there are hotels all the way up and 
down the mountains with plenty of places to stay so you never have to do 
the whole thing in one day if you don't want to. And my (then 6-year old) 
son taught me in 2018 that that hotel on the 22nd hairpin on the Stelvio 
that I always either rode past or only stayed in bad weather had the most 
gorgeous hiking trails behind the hotel that made it worth a visit even in 
good weather, so now we don't do the Stelvio without stopping there.

On Thursday, February 2, 2023 at 7:08:40 PM UTC-8 Bikie#4646 wrote:

> Eric,
>
> Great sleuthing to find that 2008 blog post by Brandt. Wonderful stuff. 
> I'm not used to seeing him with grey hair like that. 
> By the way, am I crazy? Is that his chain hanging loosely between the FD 
> and the RD? I guess if I had just ridden up all those switchbacks I might 
> have finished by shifting into the wrong gears too. (Though he does not 
> look winded like I would be, ha.)
>
> Paul Germain
> Midlothian, Va.
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 12:21:11 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Interesting discussion topic, Andrew. I picture Jobst today on a bike 
>> very similar to what he ran most of his life. Steel frame, no racks, rim 
>> brakes. Maybe a frame that would accommodate wider tires. 
>>
>> Here's a picture of Jobst from his last Alpine tour in 2008 (read more 
>> here 
>> 
>> ). 
>>
>> [image: xnemj6.jpg]
>>
>> I'm not sure what make of frames he was riding in this era. But after 50 
>> years of touring thousands of miles every summer in Italy, Switzerland and 
>> France (in addition to the long rides in California) I can't see him 
>> switching up and running racks or a rando build. He was famously ornery and 
>> I think he had his system right where he wanted it. He'd tour with a 
>> Carradice and stayed in hotels along the way (many with friends and 
>> families he'd met in the 1950s). 
>>
>> As for frame material, this is of course a guess, but I'd wager he'd 
>> stick with steel. He rode well into the carbon era. As Tom shared in the 
>> Radavist article today Brandt would get a new frame every few years, 
>> worried about damage or fractures. He chose yellow paint for his bikes 
>> because he thought it was the best for highlighting damage. I could see his 
>> familiarity with steel keeping him on steel frames. And I could see the 
>> possibility of catastrophic failure keeping him from carbon. 
>>
>> Regarding helmets, I don't think Brandt ever wore one. He probably shared 
>> an explanation for this back on rec.bicycles.tech but that's way before my 
>> time. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:55:43 AM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:
>>
>>> True.  I remember those days.  The most you see in one or two of those 
>>> photos are riders wearing "leather hair nets," except for one who looks 
>>> like he has a mountaineering helmet.  Another thing I notice is much 
>>> shorter cycling shorts, probably all wool with a natural chamois crotch.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:31:48 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler wrote:
>>>
 Those pictures were taken before helmets were commonly available. 
 During Bikecentennial helmets were rare. Steve

 On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:20 PM lconley  wrote:

> One thing I notice in those photos is that no one was wearing a helmet.
>
> Laing
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod 
>> to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
>> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
>> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>>
>> Today's Radavist 
>> 
>>  article 
>> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
>> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Kim Hetzel]

Eric,

Try visiting Kucharick Bicycle Clothing. Going out of business sale !
https://www.kucharik.com/

I have bought some solid colored wool jerseys late last year from John 
Kucharick. They are luxurious merino wool !

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA.

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 9:25:55 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> George — I do wish that there was more simple wool out there in nice solid 
> colors and I think generally shorts are too long! 
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 12:21:11 PM UTC-5 Eric Marth wrote:
>
>> Interesting discussion topic, Andrew. I picture Jobst today on a bike 
>> very similar to what he ran most of his life. Steel frame, no racks, rim 
>> brakes. Maybe a frame that would accommodate wider tires. 
>>
>> Here's a picture of Jobst from his last Alpine tour in 2008 (read more 
>> here 
>> 
>> ). 
>>
>> [image: xnemj6.jpg]
>>
>> I'm not sure what make of frames he was riding in this era. But after 50 
>> years of touring thousands of miles every summer in Italy, Switzerland and 
>> France (in addition to the long rides in California) I can't see him 
>> switching up and running racks or a rando build. He was famously ornery and 
>> I think he had his system right where he wanted it. He'd tour with a 
>> Carradice and stayed in hotels along the way (many with friends and 
>> families he'd met in the 1950s). 
>>
>> As for frame material, this is of course a guess, but I'd wager he'd 
>> stick with steel. He rode well into the carbon era. As Tom shared in the 
>> Radavist article today Brandt would get a new frame every few years, 
>> worried about damage or fractures. He chose yellow paint for his bikes 
>> because he thought it was the best for highlighting damage. I could see his 
>> familiarity with steel keeping him on steel frames. And I could see the 
>> possibility of catastrophic failure keeping him from carbon. 
>>
>> Regarding helmets, I don't think Brandt ever wore one. He probably shared 
>> an explanation for this back on rec.bicycles.tech but that's way before my 
>> time. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:55:43 AM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:
>>
>>> True.  I remember those days.  The most you see in one or two of those 
>>> photos are riders wearing "leather hair nets," except for one who looks 
>>> like he has a mountaineering helmet.  Another thing I notice is much 
>>> shorter cycling shorts, probably all wool with a natural chamois crotch.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:31:48 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler wrote:
>>>
 Those pictures were taken before helmets were commonly available. 
 During Bikecentennial helmets were rare. Steve

 On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:20 PM lconley  wrote:

> One thing I notice in those photos is that no one was wearing a helmet.
>
> Laing
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod 
>> to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
>> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
>> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>>
>> Today's Radavist 
>> 
>>  article 
>> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
>> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>>
>> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a 
>> lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
>> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build? 
>>  
>>
>> Take it away if you wish, 
>> Andrew
>>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/085f1c7e-704b-4295-aac8-c57596035b15n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
 -- 
 Steven Sweedler
 Plymouth, New Hampshire

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Kim Hetzel]

George,

I, too, remember well those days. I use to own one of those "leather hair 
nets". Then I graduated to a first issue Bell helmet. I wore and short wool 
cycling shorts with a natural chamois insert.  Still love my wool jerseys, 
arm and leg warmers, especially here in the Pacific Northwest. 

Kim Hetzel
Yelm, WA
On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 8:55:43 AM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:

> True.  I remember those days.  The most you see in one or two of those 
> photos are riders wearing "leather hair nets," except for one who looks 
> like he has a mountaineering helmet.  Another thing I notice is much 
> shorter cycling shorts, probably all wool with a natural chamois crotch.
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:31:48 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler wrote:
>
>> Those pictures were taken before helmets were commonly available. During 
>> Bikecentennial helmets were rare. Steve
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:20 PM lconley  wrote:
>>
>>> One thing I notice in those photos is that no one was wearing a helmet.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod 
 to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
 result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
 his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 

 Today's Radavist 
 
  article 
 really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
 likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 

 What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a 
 lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
 performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  

 Take it away if you wish, 
 Andrew

>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/085f1c7e-704b-4295-aac8-c57596035b15n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> -- 
>> Steven Sweedler
>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

['Bikie#4646' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Eric,

Great sleuthing to find that 2008 blog post by Brandt. Wonderful stuff. I'm 
not used to seeing him with grey hair like that. 
By the way, am I crazy? Is that his chain hanging loosely between the FD 
and the RD? I guess if I had just ridden up all those switchbacks I might 
have finished by shifting into the wrong gears too. (Though he does not 
look winded like I would be, ha.)

Paul Germain
Midlothian, Va.

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 12:21:11 PM UTC-5 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Interesting discussion topic, Andrew. I picture Jobst today on a bike very 
> similar to what he ran most of his life. Steel frame, no racks, rim brakes. 
> Maybe a frame that would accommodate wider tires. 
>
> Here's a picture of Jobst from his last Alpine tour in 2008 (read more 
> here 
> 
> ). 
>
> [image: xnemj6.jpg]
>
> I'm not sure what make of frames he was riding in this era. But after 50 
> years of touring thousands of miles every summer in Italy, Switzerland and 
> France (in addition to the long rides in California) I can't see him 
> switching up and running racks or a rando build. He was famously ornery and 
> I think he had his system right where he wanted it. He'd tour with a 
> Carradice and stayed in hotels along the way (many with friends and 
> families he'd met in the 1950s). 
>
> As for frame material, this is of course a guess, but I'd wager he'd stick 
> with steel. He rode well into the carbon era. As Tom shared in the Radavist 
> article today Brandt would get a new frame every few years, worried about 
> damage or fractures. He chose yellow paint for his bikes because he thought 
> it was the best for highlighting damage. I could see his familiarity with 
> steel keeping him on steel frames. And I could see the possibility of 
> catastrophic failure keeping him from carbon. 
>
> Regarding helmets, I don't think Brandt ever wore one. He probably shared 
> an explanation for this back on rec.bicycles.tech but that's way before my 
> time. 
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:55:43 AM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:
>
>> True.  I remember those days.  The most you see in one or two of those 
>> photos are riders wearing "leather hair nets," except for one who looks 
>> like he has a mountaineering helmet.  Another thing I notice is much 
>> shorter cycling shorts, probably all wool with a natural chamois crotch.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:31:48 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler wrote:
>>
>>> Those pictures were taken before helmets were commonly available. During 
>>> Bikecentennial helmets were rare. Steve
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:20 PM lconley  wrote:
>>>
 One thing I notice in those photos is that no one was wearing a helmet.

 Laing

 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod 
> to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>
> Today's Radavist 
> 
>  article 
> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>
> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a 
> lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  
>
> Take it away if you wish, 
> Andrew
>
 -- 
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 .

>>> -- 
>>> Steven Sweedler
>>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Jock Dewey]

RE: JB

Near as I can remember, I started lusting after bicycles at about age 
four...that was a long time ago now. A Dutch track bike dangled from a 
rafter in my Grandfather's garage. It was love at first sight. When I laid 
eyes on my first 10-speed in 1958—a Raleigh Bluestreak—my head (and heart) 
exploded. I've been chasing that one ever since.

My bikes are all steel, I built the oldest in 1998 and most recently one of 
Hiroshi's EBISU, built precisely for my 130 lb. frame. It's an artful, no 
nonsense rocketship. Fast as any carbon—but with its skinny tubes, lugs, 
and curvy fork—looks like it, too, was built in 1958. I also was employed 
by Richard Schwinn in Waterford, WI—therefore surrounded by the metal works 
of many legends, including Richard himself. Those guys all know a thing or 
two.

On our long rides together, my pals and I carried on endlessly about JB the 
engineer or rather, his many opinions  / obsessions / observations. We all 
agreed with most every JB declaration. We whiled away the hours, mile after 
mile, jabbering until our vocal chords gave out. I didn't have the math 
skills to make it as an engineer, but I've got the heart for it. My 
grandfather was a brilliant aircraft designer...I just wasn't there when 
the math genes were passed out. 

But I am handy, I love tools, and I've always maintained and built my own 
bicycles (frames notwithstanding). In fact, the only mechanic I ever 
trusted was Colin O'Brien, proprietor of Cronometro in Madison Wisconsin 
and as I recall I may have let him work on one of my bikes one time long 
ago. 

Someone wondered how he'd fit in today, good question. I have a riding pal 
in Athens, GA with a beautiful collection of steel bikes—including works by 
Richard Sachs, Peter Weigle, Pegoretti, Masi, and others in that club. But 
he also rides modern carbon bikes and will argue energetically with anyone 
who looks down on today's machines. He loves his 'plastic' (as referenced 
by Richard S.) 26-speed and the science behind it.

So back to JB. I'd be inclined to say that he'd look down upon carbon bikes 
(with 8 oz. carbon wheels) and the way we ride them. Meaning lots of gears, 
high cadence, wider tires, plastic seatposts 2 feet long, skinsuits, bike 
positioning, white socks reaching up to the knees, and those damn white 
shoes  etc. etc.

But maybe, with his obvious intelligence and brilliant engineering chops, 
he'd totally embrace the technology. 

The more I think about it, I'm betting he would. Afterall, consider all the 
carbon in a Porsche 963. Take away all that plastic, not much left but the 
tires.

BEST / Jock Dewey



On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod to 
> current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>
> Today's Radavist 
> 
>  article 
> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>
> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a lot 
> of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  
>
> Take it away if you wish, 
> Andrew
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[John Dewey]

I stand corrected, I knew that but can’t get over thinking otherwise for
sone reason. So rare these days, riders without helmets. That, of course,
is taboo discussion as well it should be.

I suppose we all have favorite JB debunking, there are so many. My all-time
fav is the old notion of not greasing BB spindle. He laid that to waste
properly please & thank you. My tattered and greasy bike wheel book always
close by.

Jock

On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 10:28 AM Piaw Na  wrote:

> No. He did not land on his head! His brain injury was caused by a stroke
> during the surgery that was done after he'd broken his leg from a fall.
> On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 10:10:30 AM UTC-8 John Dewey wrote:
>
>> Yes, that would be most interesting debate, the two Js: Jobst V. Jan. Of
>> course, Jobst had solid engineering chops as exhibited in his work at
>> Porsche.
>>
>> Ah, helmet debate. Jobst did land on his head & that was the end of the
>> road for him. Sadly...or maybe not.
>>
>> BEST / Jock Dewey
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:37 PM Philip Williamson 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think he'd ride a very similar bike today to the ones he rode for 50
>>> years.
>>>
>>>- Steel. He wasn't swayed by aluminum, titanium, or carbon, the
>>>first time around, so nu-Jobst wouldn't choose them either. Steel is 
>>> still
>>>tough, reliable, and cheap.
>>>- Fillet brazed? I imagine this was for aesthetics, but I'd need to
>>>dive into The Jobst Hole to find out.
>>>- Rim brakes, not discs. Single pivot sidepulls (??) indicate no
>>>worries about stopping with a simple, light, rim brake.
>>>- Supple tires, but still narrow. I would love to see Jobst and Jan
>>>debate the testing protocol.
>>>- Downtube shifters. Simple, light, easy cabling, and there for the
>>>two times a day he'd shift.
>>>- Yellow.
>>>
>>> Philip
>>> rec.bicycles.tech
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:59:48 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Laing, I think you made a lot of solid arguments. Custom steel still
 feels like the way he'd go, and probably not so dissimilar to his no-frills
 road bikes of yore. I'm certainly grateful for his impact on the bicycle,
 riders, and builders of today, and for the journalists keeping his name
 alive!
 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 3:16:07 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:

> If he were still around, I think he would probably still have the same
> setup as the 2008 photo, steel, rim brakes, clipless pedals.
> But that is not the question that seems to have been posed. As I
> understand the question, it is if his prime days were now, what would he 
> be
> riding - basically not a silent generation member, but a later millennial
> or early gen-Xer, but still a mechanical engineer, still concerned with
> reliability, and dare I say it, under-biking. So maybe he still ends up on
> a metal, rimmed braked bike. I think it may be easier to eliminate some
> things, I don't see him with electronic shifting, that just adds more
> possible unrepairable-on-the-road failure points. I want to say no disc
> either - as it adds stress to the fork and reduces the reliability of the
> front end of the bike. I kind of envision him on a stripped down 80th
> anniversary Rene-Herse or Rivendell Rodeo, or possibly some sort of
> titanium frame.
>
> I am a mechanical engineer also, but a boomer.
>
> Laing
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:42:06 PM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim
>> brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his
>> prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech 
>> that
>> we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a *bit* of a
>> retrogrouch could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily 
>> on
>> his opinion towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub
>> would be a yay or nay. As I'm typing this, I'm reminded of Ritchey's
>> comment on his use of his shifters, or lack-there-of, so I'm leaning
>> towards him reverting to shorter free-hub bodies. Hell, maybe he'd have
>> beat Rivendell to the modern-day 7 speed rear hub! Or perhaps, the Rene
>> Herse rear mech would tickle his fancy. Tough call. He'd certainly ride
>> whatever it is to the ground though.
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:
>>
>>> Andrew,
>>>
>>> Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.
>>> A few things stood out to me:
>>>
>>> - they were/are all *extremely *fit.
>>> - fear was not a word in their vocabulary.
>>> - what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.
>>> - the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the
>>> work ;)
>>>
>>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Patrick Moore]

I expect Jobst would not choose carbon fiber, but I wonder if an
intelligently designed -- ie, a good balance of light weight and strength
-- carbon fiber frame would be less likely to crack under someone as big
and powerful as he? Is this a use where carbon fiber would be better than
steel?

If he was climbing mountains even in the 47 X 24 he must have climbed
standing; tremendous force, I guess, on crank as well as frame.

Patrick "not a materials scientist at all" Moore, whose bike he just rode
has a higher low gear than Jobst's (56") -- have to try it on some alps.

On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 1:46 PM Drew Saunders 
wrote:

> ... He always rode yellow bikes to make it easier to find cracks in the
> frame. At 6'7" (2m) tall, he expected to break frames.
>

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[RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Drew Saunders]

I remember on r.b.tech Jobst said he ran a 47-50 half step up front with a 
modified "ultra 6" 13-24 freewheel in the back. He took a 12-24 7 speed and 
removed the 12 so that it would fit on a 126mm OLD hub that was more evenly 
dished, so that there was only space for a 5 speed or "Ultra 6" freewheel. 
Basically, a 120mm hub in 126mm of space, if that makes any sense. 

Later, he admitted he didn't really half step all that often, so he was 
going up those Alpine roads in a 50x24. My knees hurt just thinking about 
that.

I only met him briefly once, and I was trying to figure out why a bike with 
what appeared to be only one chainring had a front derailleur. He always 
rode yellow bikes to make it easier to find cracks in the frame. At 6'7" 
(2m) tall, he expected to break frames.

I'm sure he'd be using a "one by" today.

The only time I've seen Tom Ritchey around here is when he blew past me 
like I was standing still while we were both commuting home one evening. 
Dude is fast!

On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 6:22:54 AM UTC-8 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> I can't wrap my head around the gearing in the pictures Jeremy shared. 
> Good lord! He was pushing some big gears all the way to the end. 
>
> On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 8:24:23 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:
>
>> I think fillet brazing allowed him complete freedom of frame geometry and 
>> tube sizing, without compromising strength (vs. lugs). I needed somewhat 
>> different geometry and tube sizing on my custom, due to my weight and 
>> lng torso, and that resulted in a fillet brazed bottom bracket as there 
>> were no readily available BB lug. From what I think I know, fillet brazing 
>> is stronger than TIG, as it spreads the stress over a greater area. I think 
>> I also read once that fillet brazing is sometime used over top of TIG.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:36:58 PM UTC-5 Philip Williamson wrote:
>>
>>> I think he'd ride a very similar bike today to the ones he rode for 50 
>>> years. 
>>>
>>>- Steel. He wasn't swayed by aluminum, titanium, or carbon, the 
>>>first time around, so nu-Jobst wouldn't choose them either. Steel is 
>>> still 
>>>tough, reliable, and cheap. 
>>>- Fillet brazed? I imagine this was for aesthetics, but I'd need to 
>>>dive into The Jobst Hole to find out. 
>>>- Rim brakes, not discs. Single pivot sidepulls (??) indicate no 
>>>worries about stopping with a simple, light, rim brake. 
>>>- Supple tires, but still narrow. I would love to see Jobst and Jan 
>>>debate the testing protocol.
>>>- Downtube shifters. Simple, light, easy cabling, and there for the 
>>>two times a day he'd shift. 
>>>- Yellow. 
>>>
>>> Philip 
>>> rec.bicycles.tech
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:59:48 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Laing, I think you made a lot of solid arguments. Custom steel still 
 feels like the way he'd go, and probably not so dissimilar to his 
 no-frills 
 road bikes of yore. I'm certainly grateful for his impact on the bicycle, 
 riders, and builders of today, and for the journalists keeping his name 
 alive!
 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 3:16:07 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:

> If he were still around, I think he would probably still have the same 
> setup as the 2008 photo, steel, rim brakes, clipless pedals. 
> But that is not the question that seems to have been posed. As I 
> understand the question, it is if his prime days were now, what would he 
> be 
> riding - basically not a silent generation member, but a later millennial 
> or early gen-Xer, but still a mechanical engineer, still concerned with 
> reliability, and dare I say it, under-biking. So maybe he still ends up 
> on 
> a metal, rimmed braked bike. I think it may be easier to eliminate some 
> things, I don't see him with electronic shifting, that just adds more 
> possible unrepairable-on-the-road failure points. I want to say no disc 
> either - as it adds stress to the fork and reduces the reliability of the 
> front end of the bike. I kind of envision him on a stripped down 80th 
> anniversary Rene-Herse or Rivendell Rodeo, or possibly some sort of 
> titanium frame.
>
> I am a mechanical engineer also, but a boomer.
>
> Laing
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:42:06 PM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim 
>> brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his 
>> prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech 
>> that 
>> we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a *bit* of a 
>> retrogrouch could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily 
>> on 
>> his opinion towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub 
>> would be a yay or nay. 

Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Mackenzy Albright]

For some reason I thought I had read that fillet joints were lighter and 
stronger than lugs. If I recall quite a few concourse des machines bikes 
were fillet vs lugged. I just assumed it was more tedious construction 
because you have to fille joints as well as it's easier to overheat tubes. 
I love lugs but love the looks of fillet brazed when I see them. Especially 
older Ritchey MTBs. 

On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 10:10:30 AM UTC-8 John Dewey wrote:

> Yes, that would be most interesting debate, the two Js: Jobst V. Jan. Of 
> course, Jobst had solid engineering chops as exhibited in his work at 
> Porsche. 
>
> Ah, helmet debate. Jobst did land on his head & that was the end of the 
> road for him. Sadly...or maybe not.
>
> BEST / Jock Dewey
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:37 PM Philip Williamson  
> wrote:
>
>> I think he'd ride a very similar bike today to the ones he rode for 50 
>> years. 
>>
>>- Steel. He wasn't swayed by aluminum, titanium, or carbon, the first 
>>time around, so nu-Jobst wouldn't choose them either. Steel is still 
>> tough, 
>>reliable, and cheap. 
>>- Fillet brazed? I imagine this was for aesthetics, but I'd need to 
>>dive into The Jobst Hole to find out. 
>>- Rim brakes, not discs. Single pivot sidepulls (??) indicate no 
>>worries about stopping with a simple, light, rim brake. 
>>- Supple tires, but still narrow. I would love to see Jobst and Jan 
>>debate the testing protocol.
>>- Downtube shifters. Simple, light, easy cabling, and there for the 
>>two times a day he'd shift. 
>>- Yellow. 
>>
>> Philip 
>> rec.bicycles.tech
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:59:48 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Laing, I think you made a lot of solid arguments. Custom steel still 
>>> feels like the way he'd go, and probably not so dissimilar to his no-frills 
>>> road bikes of yore. I'm certainly grateful for his impact on the bicycle, 
>>> riders, and builders of today, and for the journalists keeping his name 
>>> alive!
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 3:16:07 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>>>
 If he were still around, I think he would probably still have the same 
 setup as the 2008 photo, steel, rim brakes, clipless pedals. 
 But that is not the question that seems to have been posed. As I 
 understand the question, it is if his prime days were now, what would he 
 be 
 riding - basically not a silent generation member, but a later millennial 
 or early gen-Xer, but still a mechanical engineer, still concerned with 
 reliability, and dare I say it, under-biking. So maybe he still ends up on 
 a metal, rimmed braked bike. I think it may be easier to eliminate some 
 things, I don't see him with electronic shifting, that just adds more 
 possible unrepairable-on-the-road failure points. I want to say no disc 
 either - as it adds stress to the fork and reduces the reliability of the 
 front end of the bike. I kind of envision him on a stripped down 80th 
 anniversary Rene-Herse or Rivendell Rodeo, or possibly some sort of 
 titanium frame.

 I am a mechanical engineer also, but a boomer.

 Laing

 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:42:06 PM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim 
> brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his 
> prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech 
> that 
> we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a *bit* of a 
> retrogrouch could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily 
> on 
> his opinion towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub 
> would be a yay or nay. As I'm typing this, I'm reminded of Ritchey's 
> comment on his use of his shifters, or lack-there-of, so I'm leaning 
> towards him reverting to shorter free-hub bodies. Hell, maybe he'd have 
> beat Rivendell to the modern-day 7 speed rear hub! Or perhaps, the Rene 
> Herse rear mech would tickle his fancy. Tough call. He'd certainly ride 
> whatever it is to the ground though. 
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:
>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.  A 
>> few things stood out to me:
>>
>> - they were/are all *extremely *fit.
>> - fear was not a word in their vocabulary.
>> - what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.
>> - the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the 
>> work ;)
>>
>> Jeff
>> Claremont, CA
>> (who's beloved stoker [Lori] continues to do all the work)
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a 

Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Piaw Na]

No. He did not land on his head! His brain injury was caused by a stroke 
during the surgery that was done after he'd broken his leg from a fall.
On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 10:10:30 AM UTC-8 John Dewey wrote:

> Yes, that would be most interesting debate, the two Js: Jobst V. Jan. Of 
> course, Jobst had solid engineering chops as exhibited in his work at 
> Porsche. 
>
> Ah, helmet debate. Jobst did land on his head & that was the end of the 
> road for him. Sadly...or maybe not.
>
> BEST / Jock Dewey
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:37 PM Philip Williamson  
> wrote:
>
>> I think he'd ride a very similar bike today to the ones he rode for 50 
>> years. 
>>
>>- Steel. He wasn't swayed by aluminum, titanium, or carbon, the first 
>>time around, so nu-Jobst wouldn't choose them either. Steel is still 
>> tough, 
>>reliable, and cheap. 
>>- Fillet brazed? I imagine this was for aesthetics, but I'd need to 
>>dive into The Jobst Hole to find out. 
>>- Rim brakes, not discs. Single pivot sidepulls (??) indicate no 
>>worries about stopping with a simple, light, rim brake. 
>>- Supple tires, but still narrow. I would love to see Jobst and Jan 
>>debate the testing protocol.
>>- Downtube shifters. Simple, light, easy cabling, and there for the 
>>two times a day he'd shift. 
>>- Yellow. 
>>
>> Philip 
>> rec.bicycles.tech
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:59:48 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Laing, I think you made a lot of solid arguments. Custom steel still 
>>> feels like the way he'd go, and probably not so dissimilar to his no-frills 
>>> road bikes of yore. I'm certainly grateful for his impact on the bicycle, 
>>> riders, and builders of today, and for the journalists keeping his name 
>>> alive!
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 3:16:07 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>>>
 If he were still around, I think he would probably still have the same 
 setup as the 2008 photo, steel, rim brakes, clipless pedals. 
 But that is not the question that seems to have been posed. As I 
 understand the question, it is if his prime days were now, what would he 
 be 
 riding - basically not a silent generation member, but a later millennial 
 or early gen-Xer, but still a mechanical engineer, still concerned with 
 reliability, and dare I say it, under-biking. So maybe he still ends up on 
 a metal, rimmed braked bike. I think it may be easier to eliminate some 
 things, I don't see him with electronic shifting, that just adds more 
 possible unrepairable-on-the-road failure points. I want to say no disc 
 either - as it adds stress to the fork and reduces the reliability of the 
 front end of the bike. I kind of envision him on a stripped down 80th 
 anniversary Rene-Herse or Rivendell Rodeo, or possibly some sort of 
 titanium frame.

 I am a mechanical engineer also, but a boomer.

 Laing

 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:42:06 PM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim 
> brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his 
> prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech 
> that 
> we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a *bit* of a 
> retrogrouch could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily 
> on 
> his opinion towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub 
> would be a yay or nay. As I'm typing this, I'm reminded of Ritchey's 
> comment on his use of his shifters, or lack-there-of, so I'm leaning 
> towards him reverting to shorter free-hub bodies. Hell, maybe he'd have 
> beat Rivendell to the modern-day 7 speed rear hub! Or perhaps, the Rene 
> Herse rear mech would tickle his fancy. Tough call. He'd certainly ride 
> whatever it is to the ground though. 
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:
>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.  A 
>> few things stood out to me:
>>
>> - they were/are all *extremely *fit.
>> - fear was not a word in their vocabulary.
>> - what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.
>> - the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the 
>> work ;)
>>
>> Jeff
>> Claremont, CA
>> (who's beloved stoker [Lori] continues to do all the work)
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a 
>>> nod to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. 
>>> As 
>>> a result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you 
>>> spliced 
>>> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 

Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[John Dewey]

Yes, that would be most interesting debate, the two Js: Jobst V. Jan. Of
course, Jobst had solid engineering chops as exhibited in his work at
Porsche.

Ah, helmet debate. Jobst did land on his head & that was the end of the
road for him. Sadly...or maybe not.

BEST / Jock Dewey

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:37 PM Philip Williamson <
philip.william...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think he'd ride a very similar bike today to the ones he rode for 50
> years.
>
>- Steel. He wasn't swayed by aluminum, titanium, or carbon, the first
>time around, so nu-Jobst wouldn't choose them either. Steel is still tough,
>reliable, and cheap.
>- Fillet brazed? I imagine this was for aesthetics, but I'd need to
>dive into The Jobst Hole to find out.
>- Rim brakes, not discs. Single pivot sidepulls (??) indicate no
>worries about stopping with a simple, light, rim brake.
>- Supple tires, but still narrow. I would love to see Jobst and Jan
>debate the testing protocol.
>- Downtube shifters. Simple, light, easy cabling, and there for the
>two times a day he'd shift.
>- Yellow.
>
> Philip
> rec.bicycles.tech
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:59:48 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Laing, I think you made a lot of solid arguments. Custom steel still
>> feels like the way he'd go, and probably not so dissimilar to his no-frills
>> road bikes of yore. I'm certainly grateful for his impact on the bicycle,
>> riders, and builders of today, and for the journalists keeping his name
>> alive!
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 3:16:07 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> If he were still around, I think he would probably still have the same
>>> setup as the 2008 photo, steel, rim brakes, clipless pedals.
>>> But that is not the question that seems to have been posed. As I
>>> understand the question, it is if his prime days were now, what would he be
>>> riding - basically not a silent generation member, but a later millennial
>>> or early gen-Xer, but still a mechanical engineer, still concerned with
>>> reliability, and dare I say it, under-biking. So maybe he still ends up on
>>> a metal, rimmed braked bike. I think it may be easier to eliminate some
>>> things, I don't see him with electronic shifting, that just adds more
>>> possible unrepairable-on-the-road failure points. I want to say no disc
>>> either - as it adds stress to the fork and reduces the reliability of the
>>> front end of the bike. I kind of envision him on a stripped down 80th
>>> anniversary Rene-Herse or Rivendell Rodeo, or possibly some sort of
>>> titanium frame.
>>>
>>> I am a mechanical engineer also, but a boomer.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:42:06 PM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim
 brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his
 prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech that
 we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a *bit* of a
 retrogrouch could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily on
 his opinion towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub
 would be a yay or nay. As I'm typing this, I'm reminded of Ritchey's
 comment on his use of his shifters, or lack-there-of, so I'm leaning
 towards him reverting to shorter free-hub bodies. Hell, maybe he'd have
 beat Rivendell to the modern-day 7 speed rear hub! Or perhaps, the Rene
 Herse rear mech would tickle his fancy. Tough call. He'd certainly ride
 whatever it is to the ground though.

 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:

> Andrew,
>
> Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.  A
> few things stood out to me:
>
> - they were/are all *extremely *fit.
> - fear was not a word in their vocabulary.
> - what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.
> - the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the
> work ;)
>
> Jeff
> Claremont, CA
> (who's beloved stoker [Lori] continues to do all the work)
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod
>> to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a
>> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced
>> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day.
>>
>> Today's Radavist
>> 
>>  article
>> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who
>> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s).
>>
>> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a
>> lot of 

Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Patrick Moore]

Not Jobst, but I recall reading somewhere a remark by Skye Yeager that
Coppi climbed the cols in a 46/19. Funny: watching old pro racing, the
riders grunt up hills at 20 rpm and spin out seated in sprints at 160 rpm,
whereas it's the opposite today.

On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 7:22 AM Eric Marth  wrote:

> I can't wrap my head around the gearing in the pictures Jeremy shared.
> Good lord! He was pushing some big gears all the way to the end.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Patrick Moore]

I'd be interested to hear others' opinions about this; I hope it's true --
ie, I hope fillet brazing is one of the stronger joining methods. Ideas?

Chauncey Matthews used bilaminate construction on my Matthews 1 (Fat tire
road bike) and all fillet brazing on the 2020 road bike.

Speaking of which: Blast from past? As I Googled bilaminate construction
just now, the top entry in a page of irrelevant biochemical links just
happened to be this:

http://www.halletthandbuiltcycles.com/methods.html

Richard Hallet, frame builder, prices in GBPs. Can this be the by now very
old Richard Hallet who for decades owned World Champion Bicycles at the
intersection of Lead and Yale SE here in ABQ, NM? He was a curmudgeon, but
he had the best collection of important old bikes that I've seen, including
a pristine, probably repro boneshaker and, in the window, an 1890s men's
cycling costume that, he claimed, he repeatedly refused to sell to the
Smithsonian. I got onto his good side and he took me a couple of blocks to
his warehouse where he had a huge collection of museum-quality historical
bikes, including a track frame used by Reg Harris. He also showed me a
new-in-box Cyclo rear derailleur, the rod-and-pulley model, notable as much
for being NOS as for being a Cyclo rod/pulley rd. He retired and left ABQ
circa 2002 -- I gave him a broken Orbit tandem just before he moved.

Does anyone know?

On Wed, Feb 1, 2023 at 6:24 AM lconley  wrote:

> ... From what I think I know, fillet brazing is stronger than TIG, as it
> spreads the stress over a greater area. I think I also read once that
> fillet brazing is sometime used over top of TIG

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[RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Eric Marth]

I can't wrap my head around the gearing in the pictures Jeremy shared. Good 
lord! He was pushing some big gears all the way to the end. 

On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 8:24:23 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:

> I think fillet brazing allowed him complete freedom of frame geometry and 
> tube sizing, without compromising strength (vs. lugs). I needed somewhat 
> different geometry and tube sizing on my custom, due to my weight and 
> lng torso, and that resulted in a fillet brazed bottom bracket as there 
> were no readily available BB lug. From what I think I know, fillet brazing 
> is stronger than TIG, as it spreads the stress over a greater area. I think 
> I also read once that fillet brazing is sometime used over top of TIG.
>
> Laing
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:36:58 PM UTC-5 Philip Williamson wrote:
>
>> I think he'd ride a very similar bike today to the ones he rode for 50 
>> years. 
>>
>>- Steel. He wasn't swayed by aluminum, titanium, or carbon, the first 
>>time around, so nu-Jobst wouldn't choose them either. Steel is still 
>> tough, 
>>reliable, and cheap. 
>>- Fillet brazed? I imagine this was for aesthetics, but I'd need to 
>>dive into The Jobst Hole to find out. 
>>- Rim brakes, not discs. Single pivot sidepulls (??) indicate no 
>>worries about stopping with a simple, light, rim brake. 
>>- Supple tires, but still narrow. I would love to see Jobst and Jan 
>>debate the testing protocol.
>>- Downtube shifters. Simple, light, easy cabling, and there for the 
>>two times a day he'd shift. 
>>- Yellow. 
>>
>> Philip 
>> rec.bicycles.tech
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:59:48 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Laing, I think you made a lot of solid arguments. Custom steel still 
>>> feels like the way he'd go, and probably not so dissimilar to his no-frills 
>>> road bikes of yore. I'm certainly grateful for his impact on the bicycle, 
>>> riders, and builders of today, and for the journalists keeping his name 
>>> alive!
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 3:16:07 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>>>
 If he were still around, I think he would probably still have the same 
 setup as the 2008 photo, steel, rim brakes, clipless pedals. 
 But that is not the question that seems to have been posed. As I 
 understand the question, it is if his prime days were now, what would he 
 be 
 riding - basically not a silent generation member, but a later millennial 
 or early gen-Xer, but still a mechanical engineer, still concerned with 
 reliability, and dare I say it, under-biking. So maybe he still ends up on 
 a metal, rimmed braked bike. I think it may be easier to eliminate some 
 things, I don't see him with electronic shifting, that just adds more 
 possible unrepairable-on-the-road failure points. I want to say no disc 
 either - as it adds stress to the fork and reduces the reliability of the 
 front end of the bike. I kind of envision him on a stripped down 80th 
 anniversary Rene-Herse or Rivendell Rodeo, or possibly some sort of 
 titanium frame.

 I am a mechanical engineer also, but a boomer.

 Laing

 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:42:06 PM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim 
> brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his 
> prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech 
> that 
> we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a *bit* of a 
> retrogrouch could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily 
> on 
> his opinion towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub 
> would be a yay or nay. As I'm typing this, I'm reminded of Ritchey's 
> comment on his use of his shifters, or lack-there-of, so I'm leaning 
> towards him reverting to shorter free-hub bodies. Hell, maybe he'd have 
> beat Rivendell to the modern-day 7 speed rear hub! Or perhaps, the Rene 
> Herse rear mech would tickle his fancy. Tough call. He'd certainly ride 
> whatever it is to the ground though. 
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:
>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.  A 
>> few things stood out to me:
>>
>> - they were/are all *extremely *fit.
>> - fear was not a word in their vocabulary.
>> - what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.
>> - the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the 
>> work ;)
>>
>> Jeff
>> Claremont, CA
>> (who's beloved stoker [Lori] continues to do all the work)
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a 

[RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[lconley]

I think fillet brazing allowed him complete freedom of frame geometry and 
tube sizing, without compromising strength (vs. lugs). I needed somewhat 
different geometry and tube sizing on my custom, due to my weight and 
lng torso, and that resulted in a fillet brazed bottom bracket as there 
were no readily available BB lug. From what I think I know, fillet brazing 
is stronger than TIG, as it spreads the stress over a greater area. I think 
I also read once that fillet brazing is sometime used over top of TIG.

Laing

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:36:58 PM UTC-5 Philip Williamson wrote:

> I think he'd ride a very similar bike today to the ones he rode for 50 
> years. 
>
>- Steel. He wasn't swayed by aluminum, titanium, or carbon, the first 
>time around, so nu-Jobst wouldn't choose them either. Steel is still 
> tough, 
>reliable, and cheap. 
>- Fillet brazed? I imagine this was for aesthetics, but I'd need to 
>dive into The Jobst Hole to find out. 
>- Rim brakes, not discs. Single pivot sidepulls (??) indicate no 
>worries about stopping with a simple, light, rim brake. 
>- Supple tires, but still narrow. I would love to see Jobst and Jan 
>debate the testing protocol.
>- Downtube shifters. Simple, light, easy cabling, and there for the 
>two times a day he'd shift. 
>- Yellow. 
>
> Philip 
> rec.bicycles.tech
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:59:48 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Laing, I think you made a lot of solid arguments. Custom steel still 
>> feels like the way he'd go, and probably not so dissimilar to his no-frills 
>> road bikes of yore. I'm certainly grateful for his impact on the bicycle, 
>> riders, and builders of today, and for the journalists keeping his name 
>> alive!
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 3:16:07 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> If he were still around, I think he would probably still have the same 
>>> setup as the 2008 photo, steel, rim brakes, clipless pedals. 
>>> But that is not the question that seems to have been posed. As I 
>>> understand the question, it is if his prime days were now, what would he be 
>>> riding - basically not a silent generation member, but a later millennial 
>>> or early gen-Xer, but still a mechanical engineer, still concerned with 
>>> reliability, and dare I say it, under-biking. So maybe he still ends up on 
>>> a metal, rimmed braked bike. I think it may be easier to eliminate some 
>>> things, I don't see him with electronic shifting, that just adds more 
>>> possible unrepairable-on-the-road failure points. I want to say no disc 
>>> either - as it adds stress to the fork and reduces the reliability of the 
>>> front end of the bike. I kind of envision him on a stripped down 80th 
>>> anniversary Rene-Herse or Rivendell Rodeo, or possibly some sort of 
>>> titanium frame.
>>>
>>> I am a mechanical engineer also, but a boomer.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:42:06 PM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim 
 brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his 
 prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech 
 that 
 we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a *bit* of a 
 retrogrouch could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily on 
 his opinion towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub 
 would be a yay or nay. As I'm typing this, I'm reminded of Ritchey's 
 comment on his use of his shifters, or lack-there-of, so I'm leaning 
 towards him reverting to shorter free-hub bodies. Hell, maybe he'd have 
 beat Rivendell to the modern-day 7 speed rear hub! Or perhaps, the Rene 
 Herse rear mech would tickle his fancy. Tough call. He'd certainly ride 
 whatever it is to the ground though. 

 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:

> Andrew,
>
> Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.  A 
> few things stood out to me:
>
> - they were/are all *extremely *fit.
> - fear was not a word in their vocabulary.
> - what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.
> - the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the 
> work ;)
>
> Jeff
> Claremont, CA
> (who's beloved stoker [Lori] continues to do all the work)
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod 
>> to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
>> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
>> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>>
>> Today's Radavist 
>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Patrick Moore]

I've read that AW hubs made before a certain date -- 1960s? -- had a design
flaw that caused whatever tiny little metal part inside the hub -- Clutch?
Pegs that engage the clutch? -- would flex in such a way to tend toward
clutch disengagement under high torque. This was fixed in later models. Of
course, shifter misadjustment was another cause. But later AWs properly
adjusted are fine, per Sheldon. And other 3 speed hubs, the AM in
particular, were made for enthusiasts and have a reputation for durability
and reliability.

At any rate, I torqued AWs and my AM up many hills in 2nd and 3rd gears
with no problems.

But I don't expect that Jobst would switch to IGHs were he riding today.

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 10:23 AM Mackenzy Albright <
mackenzy.albri...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ... I recall a Sheldon brown thread on internally geared hubs and he
> (Brandt) and Sheldon and other forum members were having a lively debate in
> AW3 hubs. Brandt argued due to false neutrals they should never be used and
> we're garbage even though the idea is great. Others argued it's infrequent
> and due to installation error (cable slack). I think about the cult
> following of the AW3 and people love them.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Piaw Na]

I've actually met Jobst while touring (and he showed up for Western Wheeler 
rides once in a while). I was at the Jobst memorial ride with Tom Ritchey, 
etc., and watched as Ritchey cleared tree roots, etc., with 23mm tires that 
I wouldn't be able to do with a MTB. Jobst, once he found something that 
worked, would stick to it. He had wheels that had seen north of 300K miles, 
replacing the rims as they wore out. He was an excellent mechanic, and 
would think nothing of overhauling hubs, freewheels, or rebuilding new 
wheels in the middle of a tour. As such, he could ride stuff that many 
consider too much trouble to maintain (I discovered that preload adjustment 
on shimano ball bearing hubs to be enough trouble that I didn't want to do 
it myself, not having practiced sufficiently). His high route over the 
Melchsee Frutt to Englestalp is still one of the most hauntingly beautiful 
rides that lives in my memory, and I will tell you that while he didn't go 
for the lightest equipment you could find for durability reasons, there was 
no question that he went for as light a bike as possible because on rides 
like that you'd have to carry the bike over fences, turnstiles, etc. That 
style of touring precludes a lot of the heavy equipment that you find on 
say, th
e typical Cheviots and Platypuses I see. (I never put my wife's Cheviot on 
a bike rack without commenting on how heavy the bike is --- and that's with 
the bike being unloaded)

For those who have a copy of the Rough Stuff Fellowship archives, there's a 
picture in there of a tourist climbing a ladder with his bicycle strapped 
on his back. Jobst never did anything that extreme but he was certainly not 
afraid of walking and bicycle portage. He was strong but he also pared his 
equipment to the point where his bicycle didn't have bottle cages for 
water. (The man was a camel and drank out of mountain streams, etc over the 
years without consequences --- I wouldn't trust my luck that far!)
On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 5:40:22 PM UTC-8 Mackenzy Albright wrote:

> Haha! Touché Eric. I feel like Brandt falls into the heros of the 
> retrogrouch. Grant, Sheldon Brown, Rando Jan (not to be confused with 
> Business Jan)
>
> Id love to hear a considerate counterpoint from somebody that says he'd be 
> on a 54mm tire carbon open...
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 4:59:44 PM UTC-8 Eric Daume wrote:
>
>> The Riv list imagining Jobst riding a steel frame with rim brakes? 
>> Shocking!
>>
>> Eric
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 7:37 PM Philip Williamson  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think he'd ride a very similar bike today to the ones he rode for 50 
>>> years. 
>>>
>>>- Steel. He wasn't swayed by aluminum, titanium, or carbon, the 
>>>first time around, so nu-Jobst wouldn't choose them either. Steel is 
>>> still 
>>>tough, reliable, and cheap. 
>>>- Fillet brazed? I imagine this was for aesthetics, but I'd need to 
>>>dive into The Jobst Hole to find out. 
>>>- Rim brakes, not discs. Single pivot sidepulls (??) indicate no 
>>>worries about stopping with a simple, light, rim brake. 
>>>- Supple tires, but still narrow. I would love to see Jobst and Jan 
>>>debate the testing protocol.
>>>- Downtube shifters. Simple, light, easy cabling, and there for the 
>>>two times a day he'd shift. 
>>>- Yellow. 
>>>
>>> Philip 
>>> rec.bicycles.tech
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:59:48 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Laing, I think you made a lot of solid arguments. Custom steel still 
 feels like the way he'd go, and probably not so dissimilar to his 
 no-frills 
 road bikes of yore. I'm certainly grateful for his impact on the bicycle, 
 riders, and builders of today, and for the journalists keeping his name 
 alive!
 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 3:16:07 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:

> If he were still around, I think he would probably still have the same 
> setup as the 2008 photo, steel, rim brakes, clipless pedals. 
> But that is not the question that seems to have been posed. As I 
> understand the question, it is if his prime days were now, what would he 
> be 
> riding - basically not a silent generation member, but a later millennial 
> or early gen-Xer, but still a mechanical engineer, still concerned with 
> reliability, and dare I say it, under-biking. So maybe he still ends up 
> on 
> a metal, rimmed braked bike. I think it may be easier to eliminate some 
> things, I don't see him with electronic shifting, that just adds more 
> possible unrepairable-on-the-road failure points. I want to say no disc 
> either - as it adds stress to the fork and reduces the reliability of the 
> front end of the bike. I kind of envision him on a stripped down 80th 
> anniversary Rene-Herse or Rivendell Rodeo, or possibly some sort of 
> titanium frame.
>
> I am a mechanical engineer also, but a boomer.

Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Mackenzy Albright]

Haha! Touché Eric. I feel like Brandt falls into the heros of the 
retrogrouch. Grant, Sheldon Brown, Rando Jan (not to be confused with 
Business Jan)

Id love to hear a considerate counterpoint from somebody that says he'd be 
on a 54mm tire carbon open...
On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 4:59:44 PM UTC-8 Eric Daume wrote:

> The Riv list imagining Jobst riding a steel frame with rim brakes? 
> Shocking!
>
> Eric
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 7:37 PM Philip Williamson  
> wrote:
>
>> I think he'd ride a very similar bike today to the ones he rode for 50 
>> years. 
>>
>>- Steel. He wasn't swayed by aluminum, titanium, or carbon, the first 
>>time around, so nu-Jobst wouldn't choose them either. Steel is still 
>> tough, 
>>reliable, and cheap. 
>>- Fillet brazed? I imagine this was for aesthetics, but I'd need to 
>>dive into The Jobst Hole to find out. 
>>- Rim brakes, not discs. Single pivot sidepulls (??) indicate no 
>>worries about stopping with a simple, light, rim brake. 
>>- Supple tires, but still narrow. I would love to see Jobst and Jan 
>>debate the testing protocol.
>>- Downtube shifters. Simple, light, easy cabling, and there for the 
>>two times a day he'd shift. 
>>- Yellow. 
>>
>> Philip 
>> rec.bicycles.tech
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:59:48 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Laing, I think you made a lot of solid arguments. Custom steel still 
>>> feels like the way he'd go, and probably not so dissimilar to his no-frills 
>>> road bikes of yore. I'm certainly grateful for his impact on the bicycle, 
>>> riders, and builders of today, and for the journalists keeping his name 
>>> alive!
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 3:16:07 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>>>
 If he were still around, I think he would probably still have the same 
 setup as the 2008 photo, steel, rim brakes, clipless pedals. 
 But that is not the question that seems to have been posed. As I 
 understand the question, it is if his prime days were now, what would he 
 be 
 riding - basically not a silent generation member, but a later millennial 
 or early gen-Xer, but still a mechanical engineer, still concerned with 
 reliability, and dare I say it, under-biking. So maybe he still ends up on 
 a metal, rimmed braked bike. I think it may be easier to eliminate some 
 things, I don't see him with electronic shifting, that just adds more 
 possible unrepairable-on-the-road failure points. I want to say no disc 
 either - as it adds stress to the fork and reduces the reliability of the 
 front end of the bike. I kind of envision him on a stripped down 80th 
 anniversary Rene-Herse or Rivendell Rodeo, or possibly some sort of 
 titanium frame.

 I am a mechanical engineer also, but a boomer.

 Laing

 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:42:06 PM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim 
> brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his 
> prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech 
> that 
> we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a *bit* of a 
> retrogrouch could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily 
> on 
> his opinion towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub 
> would be a yay or nay. As I'm typing this, I'm reminded of Ritchey's 
> comment on his use of his shifters, or lack-there-of, so I'm leaning 
> towards him reverting to shorter free-hub bodies. Hell, maybe he'd have 
> beat Rivendell to the modern-day 7 speed rear hub! Or perhaps, the Rene 
> Herse rear mech would tickle his fancy. Tough call. He'd certainly ride 
> whatever it is to the ground though. 
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:
>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.  A 
>> few things stood out to me:
>>
>> - they were/are all *extremely *fit.
>> - fear was not a word in their vocabulary.
>> - what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.
>> - the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the 
>> work ;)
>>
>> Jeff
>> Claremont, CA
>> (who's beloved stoker [Lori] continues to do all the work)
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a 
>>> nod to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. 
>>> As 
>>> a result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you 
>>> spliced 
>>> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>>>
>>> Today's Radavist 
>>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Eric Daume]

The Riv list imagining Jobst riding a steel frame with rim brakes? Shocking!

Eric

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 7:37 PM Philip Williamson <
philip.william...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think he'd ride a very similar bike today to the ones he rode for 50
> years.
>
>- Steel. He wasn't swayed by aluminum, titanium, or carbon, the first
>time around, so nu-Jobst wouldn't choose them either. Steel is still tough,
>reliable, and cheap.
>- Fillet brazed? I imagine this was for aesthetics, but I'd need to
>dive into The Jobst Hole to find out.
>- Rim brakes, not discs. Single pivot sidepulls (??) indicate no
>worries about stopping with a simple, light, rim brake.
>- Supple tires, but still narrow. I would love to see Jobst and Jan
>debate the testing protocol.
>- Downtube shifters. Simple, light, easy cabling, and there for the
>two times a day he'd shift.
>- Yellow.
>
> Philip
> rec.bicycles.tech
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:59:48 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Laing, I think you made a lot of solid arguments. Custom steel still
>> feels like the way he'd go, and probably not so dissimilar to his no-frills
>> road bikes of yore. I'm certainly grateful for his impact on the bicycle,
>> riders, and builders of today, and for the journalists keeping his name
>> alive!
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 3:16:07 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>>
>>> If he were still around, I think he would probably still have the same
>>> setup as the 2008 photo, steel, rim brakes, clipless pedals.
>>> But that is not the question that seems to have been posed. As I
>>> understand the question, it is if his prime days were now, what would he be
>>> riding - basically not a silent generation member, but a later millennial
>>> or early gen-Xer, but still a mechanical engineer, still concerned with
>>> reliability, and dare I say it, under-biking. So maybe he still ends up on
>>> a metal, rimmed braked bike. I think it may be easier to eliminate some
>>> things, I don't see him with electronic shifting, that just adds more
>>> possible unrepairable-on-the-road failure points. I want to say no disc
>>> either - as it adds stress to the fork and reduces the reliability of the
>>> front end of the bike. I kind of envision him on a stripped down 80th
>>> anniversary Rene-Herse or Rivendell Rodeo, or possibly some sort of
>>> titanium frame.
>>>
>>> I am a mechanical engineer also, but a boomer.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:42:06 PM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim
 brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his
 prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech that
 we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a *bit* of a
 retrogrouch could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily on
 his opinion towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub
 would be a yay or nay. As I'm typing this, I'm reminded of Ritchey's
 comment on his use of his shifters, or lack-there-of, so I'm leaning
 towards him reverting to shorter free-hub bodies. Hell, maybe he'd have
 beat Rivendell to the modern-day 7 speed rear hub! Or perhaps, the Rene
 Herse rear mech would tickle his fancy. Tough call. He'd certainly ride
 whatever it is to the ground though.

 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:

> Andrew,
>
> Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.  A
> few things stood out to me:
>
> - they were/are all *extremely *fit.
> - fear was not a word in their vocabulary.
> - what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.
> - the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the
> work ;)
>
> Jeff
> Claremont, CA
> (who's beloved stoker [Lori] continues to do all the work)
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod
>> to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a
>> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced
>> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day.
>>
>> Today's Radavist
>> 
>>  article
>> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who
>> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s).
>>
>> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a
>> lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for
>> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?
>>
>> Take it away if you wish,
>> Andrew

[RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Philip Williamson]

I think he'd ride a very similar bike today to the ones he rode for 50 
years. 

   - Steel. He wasn't swayed by aluminum, titanium, or carbon, the first 
   time around, so nu-Jobst wouldn't choose them either. Steel is still tough, 
   reliable, and cheap. 
   - Fillet brazed? I imagine this was for aesthetics, but I'd need to dive 
   into The Jobst Hole to find out. 
   - Rim brakes, not discs. Single pivot sidepulls (??) indicate no worries 
   about stopping with a simple, light, rim brake. 
   - Supple tires, but still narrow. I would love to see Jobst and Jan 
   debate the testing protocol.
   - Downtube shifters. Simple, light, easy cabling, and there for the two 
   times a day he'd shift. 
   - Yellow. 

Philip 
rec.bicycles.tech
On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:59:48 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:

> Laing, I think you made a lot of solid arguments. Custom steel still feels 
> like the way he'd go, and probably not so dissimilar to his no-frills road 
> bikes of yore. I'm certainly grateful for his impact on the bicycle, 
> riders, and builders of today, and for the journalists keeping his name 
> alive!
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 3:16:07 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>
>> If he were still around, I think he would probably still have the same 
>> setup as the 2008 photo, steel, rim brakes, clipless pedals. 
>> But that is not the question that seems to have been posed. As I 
>> understand the question, it is if his prime days were now, what would he be 
>> riding - basically not a silent generation member, but a later millennial 
>> or early gen-Xer, but still a mechanical engineer, still concerned with 
>> reliability, and dare I say it, under-biking. So maybe he still ends up on 
>> a metal, rimmed braked bike. I think it may be easier to eliminate some 
>> things, I don't see him with electronic shifting, that just adds more 
>> possible unrepairable-on-the-road failure points. I want to say no disc 
>> either - as it adds stress to the fork and reduces the reliability of the 
>> front end of the bike. I kind of envision him on a stripped down 80th 
>> anniversary Rene-Herse or Rivendell Rodeo, or possibly some sort of 
>> titanium frame.
>>
>> I am a mechanical engineer also, but a boomer.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:42:06 PM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim 
>>> brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his 
>>> prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech that 
>>> we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a *bit* of a 
>>> retrogrouch could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily on 
>>> his opinion towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub 
>>> would be a yay or nay. As I'm typing this, I'm reminded of Ritchey's 
>>> comment on his use of his shifters, or lack-there-of, so I'm leaning 
>>> towards him reverting to shorter free-hub bodies. Hell, maybe he'd have 
>>> beat Rivendell to the modern-day 7 speed rear hub! Or perhaps, the Rene 
>>> Herse rear mech would tickle his fancy. Tough call. He'd certainly ride 
>>> whatever it is to the ground though. 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:
>>>
 Andrew,

 Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.  A 
 few things stood out to me:

 - they were/are all *extremely *fit.
 - fear was not a word in their vocabulary.
 - what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.
 - the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the work 
 ;)

 Jeff
 Claremont, CA
 (who's beloved stoker [Lori] continues to do all the work)

 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod 
> to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>
> Today's Radavist 
> 
>  article 
> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>
> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a 
> lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  
>
> Take it away if you wish, 
> Andrew
>


-- 
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[RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Chris Halasz]

Well, Tom Ritchey may be credited with influencing newer bike technology to 
(a well-opinionated) Jobst. Jobst, who preferred steel drop bars. 

Having said that, Tom and Martha have discs on (at least) one of their 
tandems (but not all), and at Martha's request (according to Tom). That 
tandem is not sporting very large tires (32mm maybe?), and that tandem goes 
very, very fast uphill (Tom remains in enviable condition in his mid-60s). 
I gather the Ritcheys apply technology to the specific requirements, so the 
latest applies only where needed. 

So, yeah, I wouldn't guess Jobst changing too much from his beautiful 
fillet-brazed yellow Randy Johnson bike. Maybe by now he'd need a new 
frame, and Tom a likely candidate to (again) be the selected builder. 

I haven't had a built-by-Tom bike in decades, and wouldn't mind one myself. 

Fond memories of Jobst on wreck.bikes.tech (sic). 

Cheers, 

Chris
SB, CA
On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:59:48 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:

> Laing, I think you made a lot of solid arguments. Custom steel still feels 
> like the way he'd go, and probably not so dissimilar to his no-frills road 
> bikes of yore. I'm certainly grateful for his impact on the bicycle, 
> riders, and builders of today, and for the journalists keeping his name 
> alive!
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 3:16:07 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:
>
>> If he were still around, I think he would probably still have the same 
>> setup as the 2008 photo, steel, rim brakes, clipless pedals. 
>> But that is not the question that seems to have been posed. As I 
>> understand the question, it is if his prime days were now, what would he be 
>> riding - basically not a silent generation member, but a later millennial 
>> or early gen-Xer, but still a mechanical engineer, still concerned with 
>> reliability, and dare I say it, under-biking. So maybe he still ends up on 
>> a metal, rimmed braked bike. I think it may be easier to eliminate some 
>> things, I don't see him with electronic shifting, that just adds more 
>> possible unrepairable-on-the-road failure points. I want to say no disc 
>> either - as it adds stress to the fork and reduces the reliability of the 
>> front end of the bike. I kind of envision him on a stripped down 80th 
>> anniversary Rene-Herse or Rivendell Rodeo, or possibly some sort of 
>> titanium frame.
>>
>> I am a mechanical engineer also, but a boomer.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:42:06 PM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim 
>>> brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his 
>>> prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech that 
>>> we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a *bit* of a 
>>> retrogrouch could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily on 
>>> his opinion towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub 
>>> would be a yay or nay. As I'm typing this, I'm reminded of Ritchey's 
>>> comment on his use of his shifters, or lack-there-of, so I'm leaning 
>>> towards him reverting to shorter free-hub bodies. Hell, maybe he'd have 
>>> beat Rivendell to the modern-day 7 speed rear hub! Or perhaps, the Rene 
>>> Herse rear mech would tickle his fancy. Tough call. He'd certainly ride 
>>> whatever it is to the ground though. 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:
>>>
 Andrew,

 Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.  A 
 few things stood out to me:

 - they were/are all *extremely *fit.
 - fear was not a word in their vocabulary.
 - what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.
 - the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the work 
 ;)

 Jeff
 Claremont, CA
 (who's beloved stoker [Lori] continues to do all the work)

 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod 
> to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>
> Today's Radavist 
> 
>  article 
> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>
> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a 
> lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  
>
> Take it away if you wish, 
> Andrew
>


-- 
You received this message because you are 

[RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Andrew Turner]

Laing, I think you made a lot of solid arguments. Custom steel still feels 
like the way he'd go, and probably not so dissimilar to his no-frills road 
bikes of yore. I'm certainly grateful for his impact on the bicycle, 
riders, and builders of today, and for the journalists keeping his name 
alive!
On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 3:16:07 PM UTC-6 lconley wrote:

> If he were still around, I think he would probably still have the same 
> setup as the 2008 photo, steel, rim brakes, clipless pedals. 
> But that is not the question that seems to have been posed. As I 
> understand the question, it is if his prime days were now, what would he be 
> riding - basically not a silent generation member, but a later millennial 
> or early gen-Xer, but still a mechanical engineer, still concerned with 
> reliability, and dare I say it, under-biking. So maybe he still ends up on 
> a metal, rimmed braked bike. I think it may be easier to eliminate some 
> things, I don't see him with electronic shifting, that just adds more 
> possible unrepairable-on-the-road failure points. I want to say no disc 
> either - as it adds stress to the fork and reduces the reliability of the 
> front end of the bike. I kind of envision him on a stripped down 80th 
> anniversary Rene-Herse or Rivendell Rodeo, or possibly some sort of 
> titanium frame.
>
> I am a mechanical engineer also, but a boomer.
>
> Laing
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:42:06 PM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim 
>> brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his 
>> prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech that 
>> we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a *bit* of a 
>> retrogrouch could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily on 
>> his opinion towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub 
>> would be a yay or nay. As I'm typing this, I'm reminded of Ritchey's 
>> comment on his use of his shifters, or lack-there-of, so I'm leaning 
>> towards him reverting to shorter free-hub bodies. Hell, maybe he'd have 
>> beat Rivendell to the modern-day 7 speed rear hub! Or perhaps, the Rene 
>> Herse rear mech would tickle his fancy. Tough call. He'd certainly ride 
>> whatever it is to the ground though. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:
>>
>>> Andrew,
>>>
>>> Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.  A 
>>> few things stood out to me:
>>>
>>> - they were/are all *extremely *fit.
>>> - fear was not a word in their vocabulary.
>>> - what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.
>>> - the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the work 
>>> ;)
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>> Claremont, CA
>>> (who's beloved stoker [Lori] continues to do all the work)
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod 
 to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
 result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
 his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 

 Today's Radavist 
 
  article 
 really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
 likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 

 What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a 
 lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
 performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  

 Take it away if you wish, 
 Andrew

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[lconley]

If he were still around, I think he would probably still have the same 
setup as the 2008 photo, steel, rim brakes, clipless pedals. 
But that is not the question that seems to have been posed. As I understand 
the question, it is if his prime days were now, what would he be riding - 
basically not a silent generation member, but a later millennial or early 
gen-Xer, but still a mechanical engineer, still concerned with reliability, 
and dare I say it, under-biking. So maybe he still ends up on a metal, 
rimmed braked bike. I think it may be easier to eliminate some things, I 
don't see him with electronic shifting, that just adds more possible 
unrepairable-on-the-road failure points. I want to say no disc either - as 
it adds stress to the fork and reduces the reliability of the front end of 
the bike. I kind of envision him on a stripped down 80th anniversary 
Rene-Herse or Rivendell Rodeo, or possibly some sort of titanium frame.

I am a mechanical engineer also, but a boomer.

Laing

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:42:06 PM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:

> I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim 
> brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his 
> prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech that 
> we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a *bit* of a 
> retrogrouch could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily on 
> his opinion towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub 
> would be a yay or nay. As I'm typing this, I'm reminded of Ritchey's 
> comment on his use of his shifters, or lack-there-of, so I'm leaning 
> towards him reverting to shorter free-hub bodies. Hell, maybe he'd have 
> beat Rivendell to the modern-day 7 speed rear hub! Or perhaps, the Rene 
> Herse rear mech would tickle his fancy. Tough call. He'd certainly ride 
> whatever it is to the ground though. 
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:
>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.  A few 
>> things stood out to me:
>>
>> - they were/are all *extremely *fit.
>> - fear was not a word in their vocabulary.
>> - what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.
>> - the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the work ;)
>>
>> Jeff
>> Claremont, CA
>> (who's beloved stoker [Lori] continues to do all the work)
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod to 
>>> current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
>>> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
>>> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>>>
>>> Today's Radavist 
>>> 
>>>  article 
>>> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
>>> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>>>
>>> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a lot 
>>> of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
>>> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  
>>>
>>> Take it away if you wish, 
>>> Andrew
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Jeremy Till]

Loved the Radavist article today, been a long time admirer of JB, used to 
loving pouring over his rec.bicycles.tech postings archived on yarchive.net 
. In terms of the thought experiment of what he 
would be riding today, as far as I know this 
 was 
his last bike that he rode up to his death in 2015, and features the few 
technological advances of the last ~50 years that he found valuable: 
lightweight clinchers, freehub rear wheel (although specifically Shimano 
freehubs, he felt the HuGi/DT Swiss design was flawed), clipless pedals, 
and threadless headset/stem (the latter two of which Tom Ritchey discusses 
in the Radavist article and takes credit for). I sincerely doubt that any 
of the "advances" of the last 7-8 years would have changed JB's views much. 
Even the "gravel" trend and the move towards wider tires on road bikes--he 
rode 28mm tires everywhere and felt that wider tires really weren't 
necessary for his style of riding.

-Jeremy Till
Sacramento, CA 

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod to 
> current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>
> Today's Radavist 
> 
>  article 
> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>
> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a lot 
> of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  
>
> Take it away if you wish, 
> Andrew
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Eric Marth]

I remember reading somewhere Jobst thought the 6 speeds on his freewheel 
were more than enough. And have read in more place's than today's TR/JB 
piece that Jobst didn't shift very much! Vaguely recall a direct quote from 
him saying he didn't shift every time the terrain changed. 

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 3:00:45 PM UTC-5 vhans...@gmail.com wrote:

> That's true, but Jobst, Peter Johnson, John Loomis, Tom Ritchey, Charlie 
> Cunningham, are all members of the Less Is More club.   130mm/135mm not 
> enough room for a cassette, adequate strength hub and disc rotor to all 
> fit. 
> vtw d
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 10:42 AM Andrew Turner  
> wrote:
>
>> I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim 
>> brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his 
>> prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech that 
>> we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a *bit* of a 
>> retrogrouch could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily on 
>> his opinion towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub 
>> would be a yay or nay. As I'm typing this, I'm reminded of Ritchey's 
>> comment on his use of his shifters, or lack-there-of, so I'm leaning 
>> towards him reverting to shorter free-hub bodies. Hell, maybe he'd have 
>> beat Rivendell to the modern-day 7 speed rear hub! Or perhaps, the Rene 
>> Herse rear mech would tickle his fancy. Tough call. He'd certainly ride 
>> whatever it is to the ground though. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:
>>
>>> Andrew,
>>>
>>> Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.  A 
>>> few things stood out to me:
>>>
>>> - they were/are all *extremely *fit.
>>> - fear was not a word in their vocabulary.
>>> - what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.
>>> - the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the work 
>>> ;)
>>>
>>> Jeff
>>> Claremont, CA
>>> (who's beloved stoker [Lori] continues to do all the work)
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod 
 to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
 result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
 his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 

 Today's Radavist 
 
  article 
 really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
 likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 

 What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a 
 lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
 performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  

 Take it away if you wish, 
 Andrew

>>> -- 
>>
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/bc3aa39d-ad40-4ace-91a5-d36f9924ee16n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
> *VIctor R. Hanson*
> *Gen Mgr*
> *Schmier Industrial Properties*
> *o:  510-652-0800 <(510)%20652-0800>*
> *c:  510-207-8593 <(510)%20207-8593>*
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Victor Hanson]

That's true, but Jobst, Peter Johnson, John Loomis, Tom Ritchey, Charlie
Cunningham, are all members of the Less Is More club.   130mm/135mm not
enough room for a cassette, adequate strength hub and disc rotor to all
fit.
vtw d

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 10:42 AM Andrew Turner 
wrote:

> I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim
> brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his
> prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech that
> we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a *bit* of a
> retrogrouch could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily on
> his opinion towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub
> would be a yay or nay. As I'm typing this, I'm reminded of Ritchey's
> comment on his use of his shifters, or lack-there-of, so I'm leaning
> towards him reverting to shorter free-hub bodies. Hell, maybe he'd have
> beat Rivendell to the modern-day 7 speed rear hub! Or perhaps, the Rene
> Herse rear mech would tickle his fancy. Tough call. He'd certainly ride
> whatever it is to the ground though.
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:
>
>> Andrew,
>>
>> Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.  A few
>> things stood out to me:
>>
>> - they were/are all *extremely *fit.
>> - fear was not a word in their vocabulary.
>> - what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.
>> - the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the work ;)
>>
>> Jeff
>> Claremont, CA
>> (who's beloved stoker [Lori] continues to do all the work)
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod to
>>> current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a
>>> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced
>>> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day.
>>>
>>> Today's Radavist
>>> 
>>>  article
>>> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who
>>> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s).
>>>
>>> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a lot
>>> of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for
>>> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?
>>>
>>> Take it away if you wish,
>>> Andrew
>>>
>> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/bc3aa39d-ad40-4ace-91a5-d36f9924ee16n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 
*VIctor R. Hanson*
*Gen Mgr*
*Schmier Industrial Properties*
*o:  510-652-0800*
*c:  510-207-8593*

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[RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Andrew Turner]

I think I'd agree that Jobst would remain an advocate for the rim 
brake...PROBABLY. But just to play devil's advocate, if Jobst was in his 
prime today, he wouldn't have been brought up with the old-school tech that 
we're familiar with him using, but I suppose being a *bit* of a retrogrouch 
could still be in his cards. To me, it would depend heavily on his opinion 
towards modern wheel design and if the 11 (or 12) speed hub would be a yay 
or nay. As I'm typing this, I'm reminded of Ritchey's comment on his use of 
his shifters, or lack-there-of, so I'm leaning towards him reverting to 
shorter free-hub bodies. Hell, maybe he'd have beat Rivendell to the 
modern-day 7 speed rear hub! Or perhaps, the Rene Herse rear mech would 
tickle his fancy. Tough call. He'd certainly ride whatever it is to the 
ground though. 

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:51:37 AM UTC-6 Jeffrey Arita wrote:

> Andrew,
>
> Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.  A few 
> things stood out to me:
>
> - they were/are all *extremely *fit.
> - fear was not a word in their vocabulary.
> - what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.
> - the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the work ;)
>
> Jeff
> Claremont, CA
> (who's beloved stoker [Lori] continues to do all the work)
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod to 
>> current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
>> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
>> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>>
>> Today's Radavist 
>> 
>>  article 
>> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
>> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>>
>> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a lot 
>> of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
>> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  
>>
>> Take it away if you wish, 
>> Andrew
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Jeffrey Arita]

Andrew,

Thank you for sharing.  The article was definitely worth the read.  A few 
things stood out to me:

- they were/are all *extremely *fit.
- fear was not a word in their vocabulary.
- what camaraderie (and competition) at the same time.
- the Higgins' couple rock.  Of course the stoker is doing all the work ;)

Jeff
Claremont, CA
(who's beloved stoker [Lori] continues to do all the work)

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 7:49:25 AM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod to 
> current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>
> Today's Radavist 
> 
>  article 
> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>
> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a lot 
> of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  
>
> Take it away if you wish, 
> Andrew
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[George Schick]

I notice from the 2008 photo that he's migrated to clipless shoes and 
pedals.  Also, he's wearing regular shorts instead of a pair of 
cycling-specific ones.  Personally, I have to disagree about the wool.  I 
find the newer Spandex shorts to be much more comfortable, especially so 
since they are longer.  Also, the crotch material they're using nowadays is 
more comfortable, as well.  I used to develop allergies from the wool and 
often came  home with a rash and the shorter ones always seemed to ride up 
more than the longer ones do.  And that chamois used to bunch up like 
crazy.  But these are individual preferences.


On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:25:55 AM UTC-6 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> George — I do wish that there was more simple wool out there in nice solid 
> colors and I think generally shorts are too long! 
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 12:21:11 PM UTC-5 Eric Marth wrote:
>
>> Interesting discussion topic, Andrew. I picture Jobst today on a bike 
>> very similar to what he ran most of his life. Steel frame, no racks, rim 
>> brakes. Maybe a frame that would accommodate wider tires. 
>>
>> Here's a picture of Jobst from his last Alpine tour in 2008 (read more 
>> here 
>> 
>> ). 
>>
>> [image: xnemj6.jpg]
>>
>> I'm not sure what make of frames he was riding in this era. But after 50 
>> years of touring thousands of miles every summer in Italy, Switzerland and 
>> France (in addition to the long rides in California) I can't see him 
>> switching up and running racks or a rando build. He was famously ornery and 
>> I think he had his system right where he wanted it. He'd tour with a 
>> Carradice and stayed in hotels along the way (many with friends and 
>> families he'd met in the 1950s). 
>>
>> As for frame material, this is of course a guess, but I'd wager he'd 
>> stick with steel. He rode well into the carbon era. As Tom shared in the 
>> Radavist article today Brandt would get a new frame every few years, 
>> worried about damage or fractures. He chose yellow paint for his bikes 
>> because he thought it was the best for highlighting damage. I could see his 
>> familiarity with steel keeping him on steel frames. And I could see the 
>> possibility of catastrophic failure keeping him from carbon. 
>>
>> Regarding helmets, I don't think Brandt ever wore one. He probably shared 
>> an explanation for this back on rec.bicycles.tech but that's way before my 
>> time. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:55:43 AM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:
>>
>>> True.  I remember those days.  The most you see in one or two of those 
>>> photos are riders wearing "leather hair nets," except for one who looks 
>>> like he has a mountaineering helmet.  Another thing I notice is much 
>>> shorter cycling shorts, probably all wool with a natural chamois crotch.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:31:48 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler wrote:
>>>
 Those pictures were taken before helmets were commonly available. 
 During Bikecentennial helmets were rare. Steve

 On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:20 PM lconley  wrote:

> One thing I notice in those photos is that no one was wearing a helmet.
>
> Laing
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod 
>> to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
>> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
>> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>>
>> Today's Radavist 
>> 
>>  article 
>> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
>> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>>
>> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a 
>> lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
>> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build? 
>>  
>>
>> Take it away if you wish, 
>> Andrew
>>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/085f1c7e-704b-4295-aac8-c57596035b15n%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
 -- 
 Steven Sweedler
 Plymouth, New Hampshire

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Eric Marth]

George — I do wish that there was more simple wool out there in nice solid 
colors and I think generally shorts are too long! 

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 12:21:11 PM UTC-5 Eric Marth wrote:

> Interesting discussion topic, Andrew. I picture Jobst today on a bike very 
> similar to what he ran most of his life. Steel frame, no racks, rim brakes. 
> Maybe a frame that would accommodate wider tires. 
>
> Here's a picture of Jobst from his last Alpine tour in 2008 (read more 
> here 
> 
> ). 
>
> [image: xnemj6.jpg]
>
> I'm not sure what make of frames he was riding in this era. But after 50 
> years of touring thousands of miles every summer in Italy, Switzerland and 
> France (in addition to the long rides in California) I can't see him 
> switching up and running racks or a rando build. He was famously ornery and 
> I think he had his system right where he wanted it. He'd tour with a 
> Carradice and stayed in hotels along the way (many with friends and 
> families he'd met in the 1950s). 
>
> As for frame material, this is of course a guess, but I'd wager he'd stick 
> with steel. He rode well into the carbon era. As Tom shared in the Radavist 
> article today Brandt would get a new frame every few years, worried about 
> damage or fractures. He chose yellow paint for his bikes because he thought 
> it was the best for highlighting damage. I could see his familiarity with 
> steel keeping him on steel frames. And I could see the possibility of 
> catastrophic failure keeping him from carbon. 
>
> Regarding helmets, I don't think Brandt ever wore one. He probably shared 
> an explanation for this back on rec.bicycles.tech but that's way before my 
> time. 
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:55:43 AM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:
>
>> True.  I remember those days.  The most you see in one or two of those 
>> photos are riders wearing "leather hair nets," except for one who looks 
>> like he has a mountaineering helmet.  Another thing I notice is much 
>> shorter cycling shorts, probably all wool with a natural chamois crotch.
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:31:48 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler wrote:
>>
>>> Those pictures were taken before helmets were commonly available. During 
>>> Bikecentennial helmets were rare. Steve
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:20 PM lconley  wrote:
>>>
 One thing I notice in those photos is that no one was wearing a helmet.

 Laing

 On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod 
> to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>
> Today's Radavist 
> 
>  article 
> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>
> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a 
> lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  
>
> Take it away if you wish, 
> Andrew
>
 -- 
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 .

>>> -- 
>>> Steven Sweedler
>>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Mackenzy Albright]

I'm also curious about the opinion of Brandt on modern cycling technology. 

One thing I've noticed is he is feverishly adamant about 1. Preventative 
failures and design flaws even if miniscule. 2. Repairability in the field. 

It makes me wonder about opinions on carbon. If you get a chip or crack 
failure is catastrophic and unrepairable. Also with discs you can have 
inconsistent braking with heat fade. 

I recall a Sheldon brown thread on internally geared hubs and he (Brandt) 
and Sheldon and other forum members were having a lively debate in AW3 
hubs. Brandt argued due to false neutrals they should never be used and 
we're garbage even though the idea is great. Others argued it's infrequent 
and due to installation error (cable slack). I think about the cult 
following of the AW3 and people love them. 

It seemed brandt loved his steel, skinny tires, and rim brakes. I would 
genuinely love to see what he picked and chose as valid technological 
advances. 

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 8:55:43 AM UTC-8 George Schick wrote:

> True.  I remember those days.  The most you see in one or two of those 
> photos are riders wearing "leather hair nets," except for one who looks 
> like he has a mountaineering helmet.  Another thing I notice is much 
> shorter cycling shorts, probably all wool with a natural chamois crotch.
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:31:48 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler wrote:
>
>> Those pictures were taken before helmets were commonly available. During 
>> Bikecentennial helmets were rare. Steve
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:20 PM lconley  wrote:
>>
>>> One thing I notice in those photos is that no one was wearing a helmet.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod 
 to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
 result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
 his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 

 Today's Radavist 
 
  article 
 really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
 likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 

 What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a 
 lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
 performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  

 Take it away if you wish, 
 Andrew

>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/085f1c7e-704b-4295-aac8-c57596035b15n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> -- 
>> Steven Sweedler
>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Eric Marth]

Interesting discussion topic, Andrew. I picture Jobst today on a bike very 
similar to what he ran most of his life. Steel frame, no racks, rim brakes. 
Maybe a frame that would accommodate wider tires. 

Here's a picture of Jobst from his last Alpine tour in 2008 (read more here 

). 

[image: xnemj6.jpg]

I'm not sure what make of frames he was riding in this era. But after 50 
years of touring thousands of miles every summer in Italy, Switzerland and 
France (in addition to the long rides in California) I can't see him 
switching up and running racks or a rando build. He was famously ornery and 
I think he had his system right where he wanted it. He'd tour with a 
Carradice and stayed in hotels along the way (many with friends and 
families he'd met in the 1950s). 

As for frame material, this is of course a guess, but I'd wager he'd stick 
with steel. He rode well into the carbon era. As Tom shared in the Radavist 
article today Brandt would get a new frame every few years, worried about 
damage or fractures. He chose yellow paint for his bikes because he thought 
it was the best for highlighting damage. I could see his familiarity with 
steel keeping him on steel frames. And I could see the possibility of 
catastrophic failure keeping him from carbon. 

Regarding helmets, I don't think Brandt ever wore one. He probably shared 
an explanation for this back on rec.bicycles.tech but that's way before my 
time. 

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 11:55:43 AM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:

> True.  I remember those days.  The most you see in one or two of those 
> photos are riders wearing "leather hair nets," except for one who looks 
> like he has a mountaineering helmet.  Another thing I notice is much 
> shorter cycling shorts, probably all wool with a natural chamois crotch.
>
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:31:48 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler wrote:
>
>> Those pictures were taken before helmets were commonly available. During 
>> Bikecentennial helmets were rare. Steve
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:20 PM lconley  wrote:
>>
>>> One thing I notice in those photos is that no one was wearing a helmet.
>>>
>>> Laing
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod 
 to current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
 result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
 his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 

 Today's Radavist 
 
  article 
 really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
 likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 

 What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a 
 lot of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
 performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  

 Take it away if you wish, 
 Andrew

>>> -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/085f1c7e-704b-4295-aac8-c57596035b15n%40googlegroups.com
>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>> -- 
>> Steven Sweedler
>> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[George Schick]

True.  I remember those days.  The most you see in one or two of those 
photos are riders wearing "leather hair nets," except for one who looks 
like he has a mountaineering helmet.  Another thing I notice is much 
shorter cycling shorts, probably all wool with a natural chamois crotch.


On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:31:48 AM UTC-6 Steven Sweedler wrote:

> Those pictures were taken before helmets were commonly available. During 
> Bikecentennial helmets were rare. Steve
>
> On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:20 PM lconley  wrote:
>
>> One thing I notice in those photos is that no one was wearing a helmet.
>>
>> Laing
>>
>> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod to 
>>> current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
>>> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
>>> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>>>
>>> Today's Radavist 
>>> 
>>>  article 
>>> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
>>> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>>>
>>> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a lot 
>>> of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
>>> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  
>>>
>>> Take it away if you wish, 
>>> Andrew
>>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/085f1c7e-704b-4295-aac8-c57596035b15n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
> -- 
> Steven Sweedler
> Plymouth, New Hampshire
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[Steven Sweedler]

Those pictures were taken before helmets were commonly available. During
Bikecentennial helmets were rare. Steve

On Tue, Jan 31, 2023 at 4:20 PM lconley  wrote:

> One thing I notice in those photos is that no one was wearing a helmet.
>
> Laing
>
> On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod to
>> current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a
>> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced
>> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day.
>>
>> Today's Radavist
>> 
>>  article
>> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who
>> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s).
>>
>> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a lot
>> of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for
>> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?
>>
>> Take it away if you wish,
>> Andrew
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/085f1c7e-704b-4295-aac8-c57596035b15n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>
-- 
Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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[RBW] Re: Jobst Brandt thought experiment: What would he ride today?

[lconley]

One thing I notice in those photos is that no one was wearing a helmet.

Laing

On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 10:49:25 AM UTC-5 andyree...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I'm in the process of building a JB-inspired road bike but with a nod to 
> current bicycle trends: mainly wider tires and spinnier gearing. As a 
> result, it's made me wonder what he would be riding today if you spliced 
> his timeline and moved his prime days to current day. 
>
> Today's Radavist 
> 
>  article 
> really fueled that question so I'd like to open it up to this group who 
> likely have much more insight into the man and his bike(s). 
>
> What are we thinking? Rim brakes or disc? Carbon? Steel? Ti? I see a lot 
> of similarities between him and Jan Heine as far as a desire for 
> performance and reliability, so perhaps he'd lean towards a rando build?  
>
> Take it away if you wish, 
> Andrew
>

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