subject:"\[RBW\] Re\: Lighten Up\: Clem Edition"

Woah. Ok, good luck with your sales.
Best,
Leah

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:55 PM, 'Abcyclehank' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Leah wants SON dyno hubs apparently on both her current Clem 650B and future 
> Cheviot 700c now.  Everyone is wasting their time proposing otherwise.  This 
> is her dream bikes are her vice.  Don’t try to save her money.  Just tell her 
> what to have Rich build up for her.
> 
> And Yes Leah I have wheel sets that would likely perfectly meet your needs.  
> Since you would not sell me your Benz I will just get around to posting a 
> major  FS post for others benefit.  
> 
> Ryan “not salty just 4 miles from fresh watered shark free Lake Michigan” 
> Hankinson
> Just ride just swim just enjoy the flowers when they bloom
> 
> 
>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 12:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>> I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble because 
>> we talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each other’s 
>> ideas and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire. 
>> 
>> So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with 
>> light parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile, 
>> Roberta is giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots of 
>> new parts and she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and I’m 
>> like that little sister who wants what her sister has, I want to explore 
>> what it would take to lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike at 
>> present, and which is quite heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in 
>> Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If my Clem could lose a little weight it 
>> would be the most perfect bike anyone could dream up. A Susie version of 
>> Clems would be just so ideal - someone should tell Riv. 
>> 
>> Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what 
>> kind, how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably lighter? 
>> I don’t think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it for Killer 
>> Hill. And what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would that negate 
>> my weight savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part with those. 
>> Maybe I’m not the best candidate for this... 
>> 
>> Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big 
>> difference? As in, is it worth the money? 
>> 
>> Thanks! 
>> Leah
> 
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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread 'Abcyclehank' via RBW Owners Bunch

Leah wants SON dyno hubs apparently on both her current Clem 650B and 
future Cheviot 700c now.  Everyone is wasting their time proposing 
otherwise.  This is her dream bikes are her vice.  Don’t try to save her 
money.  Just tell her what to have Rich build up for her.

And Yes Leah I have wheel sets that would likely perfectly meet your needs. 
 Since you would not sell me your Benz I will just get around to posting a 
major  FS post for others benefit.  

Ryan “not salty just 4 miles from fresh watered shark free Lake Michigan” 
Hankinson
Just ride just swim just enjoy the flowers when they bloom


On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 12:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble 
> because we talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each 
> other’s ideas and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire. 
>
> So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with 
> light parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile, 
> Roberta is giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots 
> of new parts and she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and 
> I’m like that little sister who wants what her sister has, I want to 
> explore what it would take to lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike 
> at present, and which is quite heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in 
> Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If my Clem could lose a little weight it 
> would be the most perfect bike anyone could dream up. A Susie version of 
> Clems would be just so ideal - someone should tell Riv. 
>
> Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what 
> kind, how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably lighter? 
> I don’t think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it for Killer 
> Hill. And what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would that negate 
> my weight savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part with those. 
> Maybe I’m not the best candidate for this... 
>
> Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big 
> difference? As in, is it worth the money? 
>
> Thanks! 
> Leah

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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

One more benefit to SON hubs: they look *smashing* in polished silver. I insist 
that's what Leah gets and will pay half for it if that's what it takes to push 
her over the edge! 

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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

Can someone confirm my suspicion that the Kaisai hubs Riv is selling are just 
rebadged SP's? 

If they are, SP/Kaisai are significantly lighter and more efficient than 
Shimano DN-3N7x or 3N80 dynamos. They are pretty close to Schimdt SON hubs in 
terms of weight and efficiency but are about half the price. SON hubs have some 
advantages:

1. SON produces a wide body version that makes wheel build stronger because 
they ate less dished.
2. SON has a version. That allows you to have wires built into your fork legs 
and therefore looks like there is no wire sticking out from the hub
3. SON hubs can rotate in either directions so the electrode can be either on 
the drive or line-drive side to allow flexibility I options in where you want 
to mount your lamp.
4. SON hubs have this nifty pressurized hub chamber to prevent moisture from 
building up.

That being said, these benefits are marginal for my use cases so all but one of 
my and my wife's dynamo set ups (and we have 7 bikes between the two of us that 
have dynamos) use SP hubs.

Franklyn 

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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread Max S

On the dynamo hubs, anyone have experience with the one Riv is selling, 
compared to Shutter Precision, or Shimano 72 or something in that range? 
Intended use is general riding and commuting at speeds between 12 and 20 mph, 
on 650 or 700c wheels with rim brakes, oftentimes in dirt roads, rider + bike + 
gear weight around 200-220 lbs. 

- Max “dyno-curious” in A2

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

Franklyn, it was a few weeks, they weren't on a bike and I started ignoring 
them. But my digression on this isn't really helpful to Roberta or Leah anyway, 
neither would be mounting tires on rims. The wheels will come from James or 
whoever all mounted up with tires and they would simply keep them pumped, so 
I'm rather spectacularly wasting their time with issues I have with tubeless. 
Joe Bernard, time waster! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread Brian Campbell

Thumbs up emoji!

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 11:04:10 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> It would but my wheels on the Foy weren’t built for dyno. I want dyno on 
> my Clem, I’m fairly certain, so I don’t want the Betz wheels on there.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 8, 2020, at 8:02 PM, Brian Campbell  > wrote:
>
> 
> Now I don't want get in to the middle of a fray but why would a dyno hub 
> not work on a Betty Foy?
>
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:51:02 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>>
>> Oh Ryan, so salty. I didn’t know you had 650B - I did know you had 700 c. 
>> I am thinking of getting dyno though...would need to have dyno 
>> compatibility...do you have those in your basement somewhere too? 
>>
>> I’m not good at pulling parts off one bike and installing on another! It 
>> was better to just sell the whole Betz. Don’t you think I deserve some new 
>> wheels? Betz is 8 year old now. And not compatible with dyno.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On Apr 8, 2020, at 7:13 PM, 'Abcyclehank' via RBW Owners Bunch <
>> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Leah,
>> I have a wonderful 650B velocity wheel set you may try.  Also have g-ones 
>> tires and Hetras you could try.  A different size rim will require an 
>> adjustment to brake pads.
>>
>> It does frustrate me slightly that you ignore my advice about wheel and 
>> tire improvement on ride and weight until 4-5 others state the same claim. 
>>  Oh well what do I know.
>>
>> For the record the least expensive option would have been to simply swap 
>> parts wheels etc from the Betz build over to the Clem to see which 
>> modifications were worth the build.
>>
>> However since you boxed up the bike before trying the other wheels and 
>> had no mechanic to help you with the swap and now the Benz has a new owner; 
>> therefore shopping for and buying new parts (wheels and tires 1st) buying 
>> used parts or borrowing some from me is really your only options.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Ryan Hankinson
>> West Michigan
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 12:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>>
>>> I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble 
>>> because we talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each 
>>> other’s ideas and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire. 
>>>
>>> So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with 
>>> light parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile, 
>>> Roberta is giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots 
>>> of new parts and she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and 
>>> I’m like that little sister who wants what her sister has, I want to 
>>> explore what it would take to lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike 
>>> at present, and which is quite heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in 
>>> Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If my Clem could lose a little weight it 
>>> would be the most perfect bike anyone could dream up. A Susie version of 
>>> Clems would be just so ideal - someone should tell Riv. 
>>>
>>> Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what 
>>> kind, how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably lighter? 
>>> I don’t think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it for Killer 
>>> Hill. And what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would that negate 
>>> my weight savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part with those. 
>>> Maybe I’m not the best candidate for this... 
>>>
>>> Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big 
>>> difference? As in, is it worth the money? 
>>>
>>> Thanks! 
>>> Leah
>>
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>> .
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

Interesting. Every time I top off sealant (through the valve with the core off) 
the tire is completely flat, and usually it comes right back up with floor 
pump. How long did you leave your tires completely flat? 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

It would but my wheels on the Foy weren’t built for dyno. I want dyno on my 
Clem, I’m fairly certain, so I don’t want the Betz wheels on there.

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 8, 2020, at 8:02 PM, Brian Campbell  wrote:
> 
> 
> Now I don't want get in to the middle of a fray but why would a dyno hub not 
> work on a Betty Foy?
> 
>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:51:02 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>> Oh Ryan, so salty. I didn’t know you had 650B - I did know you had 700 c. I 
>> am thinking of getting dyno though...would need to have dyno 
>> compatibility...do you have those in your basement somewhere too? 
>> 
>> I’m not good at pulling parts off one bike and installing on another! It was 
>> better to just sell the whole Betz. Don’t you think I deserve some new 
>> wheels? Betz is 8 year old now. And not compatible with dyno.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
 On Apr 8, 2020, at 7:13 PM, 'Abcyclehank' via RBW Owners Bunch 
  wrote:
 
>>> 
>>> Leah,
>>> I have a wonderful 650B velocity wheel set you may try.  Also have g-ones 
>>> tires and Hetras you could try.  A different size rim will require an 
>>> adjustment to brake pads.
>>> 
>>> It does frustrate me slightly that you ignore my advice about wheel and 
>>> tire improvement on ride and weight until 4-5 others state the same claim.  
>>> Oh well what do I know.
>>> 
>>> For the record the least expensive option would have been to simply swap 
>>> parts wheels etc from the Betz build over to the Clem to see which 
>>> modifications were worth the build.
>>> 
>>> However since you boxed up the bike before trying the other wheels and had 
>>> no mechanic to help you with the swap and now the Benz has a new owner; 
>>> therefore shopping for and buying new parts (wheels and tires 1st) buying 
>>> used parts or borrowing some from me is really your only options.
>>> 
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Ryan Hankinson
>>> West Michigan
>>> 
 On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 12:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
 wrote:
 I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble 
 because we talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each 
 other’s ideas and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire. 
 
 So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with 
 light parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile, 
 Roberta is giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots 
 of new parts and she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and 
 I’m like that little sister who wants what her sister has, I want to 
 explore what it would take to lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike 
 at present, and which is quite heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in 
 Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If my Clem could lose a little weight it 
 would be the most perfect bike anyone could dream up. A Susie version of 
 Clems would be just so ideal - someone should tell Riv. 
 
 Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what 
 kind, how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably 
 lighter? I don’t think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it 
 for Killer Hill. And what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would 
 that negate my weight savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part 
 with those. Maybe I’m not the best candidate for this... 
 
 Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big 
 difference? As in, is it worth the money? 
 
 Thanks! 
 Leah
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread Brian Campbell

Now I don't want get in to the middle of a fray but why would a dyno hub 
not work on a Betty Foy?

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:51:02 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Oh Ryan, so salty. I didn’t know you had 650B - I did know you had 700 c. 
> I am thinking of getting dyno though...would need to have dyno 
> compatibility...do you have those in your basement somewhere too? 
>
> I’m not good at pulling parts off one bike and installing on another! It 
> was better to just sell the whole Betz. Don’t you think I deserve some new 
> wheels? Betz is 8 year old now. And not compatible with dyno.
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 8, 2020, at 7:13 PM, 'Abcyclehank' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com > wrote:
>
> 
> Leah,
> I have a wonderful 650B velocity wheel set you may try.  Also have g-ones 
> tires and Hetras you could try.  A different size rim will require an 
> adjustment to brake pads.
>
> It does frustrate me slightly that you ignore my advice about wheel and 
> tire improvement on ride and weight until 4-5 others state the same claim. 
>  Oh well what do I know.
>
> For the record the least expensive option would have been to simply swap 
> parts wheels etc from the Betz build over to the Clem to see which 
> modifications were worth the build.
>
> However since you boxed up the bike before trying the other wheels and had 
> no mechanic to help you with the swap and now the Benz has a new owner; 
> therefore shopping for and buying new parts (wheels and tires 1st) buying 
> used parts or borrowing some from me is really your only options.
>
> Sincerely,
> Ryan Hankinson
> West Michigan
>
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 12:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>>
>> I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble 
>> because we talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each 
>> other’s ideas and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire. 
>>
>> So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with 
>> light parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile, 
>> Roberta is giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots 
>> of new parts and she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and 
>> I’m like that little sister who wants what her sister has, I want to 
>> explore what it would take to lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike 
>> at present, and which is quite heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in 
>> Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If my Clem could lose a little weight it 
>> would be the most perfect bike anyone could dream up. A Susie version of 
>> Clems would be just so ideal - someone should tell Riv. 
>>
>> Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what 
>> kind, how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably lighter? 
>> I don’t think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it for Killer 
>> Hill. And what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would that negate 
>> my weight savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part with those. 
>> Maybe I’m not the best candidate for this... 
>>
>> Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big 
>> difference? As in, is it worth the money? 
>>
>> Thanks! 
>> Leah
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

"The difficulty in seating only happens at set up. Afterward even if the tire 
is completely flat you can pump it back up no problem."

This was not my experience. I had two go flat (because I let them sit) and 
couldn't reseat them with my floor pump. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

Oh Ryan, so salty. I didn’t know you had 650B - I did know you had 700 c. I am 
thinking of getting dyno though...would need to have dyno compatibility...do 
you have those in your basement somewhere too? 

I’m not good at pulling parts off one bike and installing on another! It was 
better to just sell the whole Betz. Don’t you think I deserve some new wheels? 
Betz is 8 year old now. And not compatible with dyno.



Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 8, 2020, at 7:13 PM, 'Abcyclehank' via RBW Owners Bunch 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> Leah,
> I have a wonderful 650B velocity wheel set you may try.  Also have g-ones 
> tires and Hetras you could try.  A different size rim will require an 
> adjustment to brake pads.
> 
> It does frustrate me slightly that you ignore my advice about wheel and tire 
> improvement on ride and weight until 4-5 others state the same claim.  Oh 
> well what do I know.
> 
> For the record the least expensive option would have been to simply swap 
> parts wheels etc from the Betz build over to the Clem to see which 
> modifications were worth the build.
> 
> However since you boxed up the bike before trying the other wheels and had no 
> mechanic to help you with the swap and now the Benz has a new owner; 
> therefore shopping for and buying new parts (wheels and tires 1st) buying 
> used parts or borrowing some from me is really your only options.
> 
> Sincerely,
> Ryan Hankinson
> West Michigan
> 
>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 12:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>> I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble because 
>> we talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each other’s 
>> ideas and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire. 
>> 
>> So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with 
>> light parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile, 
>> Roberta is giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots of 
>> new parts and she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and I’m 
>> like that little sister who wants what her sister has, I want to explore 
>> what it would take to lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike at 
>> present, and which is quite heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in 
>> Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If my Clem could lose a little weight it 
>> would be the most perfect bike anyone could dream up. A Susie version of 
>> Clems would be just so ideal - someone should tell Riv. 
>> 
>> Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what 
>> kind, how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably lighter? 
>> I don’t think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it for Killer 
>> Hill. And what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would that negate 
>> my weight savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part with those. 
>> Maybe I’m not the best candidate for this... 
>> 
>> Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big 
>> difference? As in, is it worth the money? 
>> 
>> Thanks! 
>> Leah
> 
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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

Roberta,

I think like all things, how long your tubeless tires will hold air depends on
many factors. Some of it depends on the tires. The supple tires I like to ride
from Rene Herse/Compass have side walls weaved from fabrics. Air leaks from the
interface between the rim and the tire as well as the sidewalls, slowly. With
sealants inside, the leaking air pushes the sealant toward the crevices,
thereby sealing them. The first 1-3 days of setting up a tubeless tire involves
a rinse-repeat cycle of pumping up the tire, spinning it to distribute the
sealant, letting the crevices get sealed up, adding sealant and pumping up.
After a handful or less of this cycle, the tire I have typically holds air very
well.

I work about two hours from my house, and before the pandemic, I would travel
to my office, stay for 3 nights, and come home for the weekend. I would need to
pump my tires, once set up properly, maybe twice in 3 weeks. I ride 48mm
RH/Compass tires are 30-35 psi and I am just north of 200 lbs. I top off
sealant (through the valve with the core taken off) every 5-6 months. I heard
from a local shop that Orange Seal's endurance variety can last longer. I
bought a bottle and will give it a try.

The difficulty in seating only happens at set up. Afterward even if the tire is
completely flat you can pump it back up no problem.

In case you need to replace your tire, or use an used tire on another tubeless
set up, there are ways without going to the shop. Another person already
mentioned that they have floor pumps nowadays that has a reservoir that
unleashes a big volume of air at once. I don't have that, but I just go down to
the neighborhood gas station with my Schrader to presto valve converter, throw
in a quarter and use the compressor there.

Just for reference. I had a tire that I set up once and never had to worry
about seating the bead until it was time to replace the tire.

Franklyn

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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread 'Abcyclehank' via RBW Owners Bunch

Leah,
I have a wonderful 650B velocity wheel set you may try.  Also have g-ones 
tires and Hetras you could try.  A different size rim will require an 
adjustment to brake pads.

It does frustrate me slightly that you ignore my advice about wheel and 
tire improvement on ride and weight until 4-5 others state the same claim. 
 Oh well what do I know.

For the record the least expensive option would have been to simply swap 
parts wheels etc from the Betz build over to the Clem to see which 
modifications were worth the build.

However since you boxed up the bike before trying the other wheels and had 
no mechanic to help you with the swap and now the Benz has a new owner; 
therefore shopping for and buying new parts (wheels and tires 1st) buying 
used parts or borrowing some from me is really your only options.

Sincerely,
Ryan Hankinson
West Michigan

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 12:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble 
> because we talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each 
> other’s ideas and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire. 
>
> So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with 
> light parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile, 
> Roberta is giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots 
> of new parts and she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and 
> I’m like that little sister who wants what her sister has, I want to 
> explore what it would take to lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike 
> at present, and which is quite heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in 
> Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If my Clem could lose a little weight it 
> would be the most perfect bike anyone could dream up. A Susie version of 
> Clems would be just so ideal - someone should tell Riv. 
>
> Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what 
> kind, how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably lighter? 
> I don’t think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it for Killer 
> Hill. And what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would that negate 
> my weight savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part with those. 
> Maybe I’m not the best candidate for this... 
>
> Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big 
> difference? As in, is it worth the money? 
>
> Thanks! 
> Leah

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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread Jason Fuller

Funny, I'm going through a similar process with my Clem H. I swapped over 
everything from my upgraded vintage MTB city 'beater', so it's a somewhat 
eclectic mix of mostly economy-based parts, with a good sprinkling of fancy 
parts as well.  The result is a pretty heavy bike - and it's mostly due to 
the wheels. Similarly, for you, I would suggest that as light of weight 
tires and wheels as you can reasonably accept (based on the trade-off of 
potential flats and maintenance) will be the best bang for the buck... not 
that nice wheelsets are cheap. 


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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

Roberta,

Re air retention of my tubeless tire setup:
  Caveats/context:
I have WTB byway tires (650b 48mm) on WTB rims set up with orange seal 
(pretty sure) by Mike at Black Mountain Cycles.
I weigh between 150 and 160 lbs.
I tend to run what I think is pretty low pressure in them, like 25/30 
psi for all pavement. A bit less if heading onto trails/fire roads.
I'm a bit over obsessive about tire pressure.
  Leakage:
Absent doing a poor job patching a tube, I am used to going several 
days without a measurable change in tire pressure.
With my tubeless wheels at first it seemed like they might be loosing 
about 1 psi a day, but I don't keep good records so ...
I got in the habit of topping up the tires with a floor pump most every 
time I ride that bike (usually I don't ride that one every day).
The other day when I went to ride it the rear was much lower than the 
front. I don't know if that is related to a self sealed leak I never 
noticed or not.
I've heard and read that after 6 months or so you may need to add some 
fresh sealant, and I've had that bike ~6 months now so ...
  My opinion:
If one were to let your bike sit for weeks on end without riding it 
(which I don't think you do) tubeless might not hold air as well as desired.
For near daily use (or even just weekly) its a non issue but something 
to be aware of, particularly if you are in the habit of ignoring your tires.
If you don't already have a nice floor pump with an integrated gauge, 
buy one immediately. They last a long time and are way worth it.

regards
ted

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 4:46:18 PM UTC-7, Roberta wrote:
>
> *Joe and Franklin*--Is the compressor for only originally seating the 
> tire, or is it for ongoing pumping in air?  So, if I have James mount the 
> tire, i'm OK with my standard floor pump for pumping air in?
>
> *Ted--*when you say it doesn't hold air as well, are you talking pumping 
> on a daily or hourly basis instead of weekly, or is it in the same 
> ballpark, but just slightly more often?
>
> Thanks,
> Roberta
>
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 1:24:09 PM UTC-4, franklyn wrote:
>>
>> Joe,
>>
>> Tubeless sealant in inner tubes is a good compromise if you don't want to 
>> worry about compressors, but want to have the benefits of the sealant. I 
>> have two bikes with tubeless and 3 with tubes. I also don't have a 
>> compressor. With new tubeless tires I have had good luck using my floor 
>> pump to seat the beads. With used tires, I go to a nearby gas station and 
>> use a valve converter and a quarter to inflate quickly! 
>>
>> Franklyn
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:53:53 AM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm a Tubeless Denier because I've had miserable luck mounting them with 
>>> a floor pump and I'm not willing to pay for a noisy compressor to do the 
>>> job, but I've been fixing flats for more decades than I care to number here 
>>> and consider it part of the cycling deal. For folks who are not me and 
>>> aren't fixing/mounting tires anyway, tubeless seems the way to go for 
>>> lightness and less flats. I had them on a Crust Lightning Bolt I got from 
>>> James and Candice @ Analog and they were light and plush. 
>>>
>>> Roberta: I did get one puncture which sent some goo flying because I 
>>> didn't use fenders, but it sealed up right away and got me back home. I had 
>>> some cleanup to do later but it was a lot less work than if I'd had to stop 
>>> and swap tubes on the road. 
>>>
>>> Conclusion: Don't be like Old School Joe, go tubeless, be light with no 
>>> flats! 
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

Roberta, it's for seating the tire. I had some tubeless tires on wheels not on 
a bike (the SimWorks tires we briefly discussed) and I made the lame mistake of 
letting them go flat from non use. I couldn't get them seated again with my 
floor pump to save my life. Which connects to you next question...

They need to be checked every other day or so, especially if you run the lower 
pressures they allow. I'm used to checking tubed tires once a week. 

Conclusion: If you get them seated and pumped up from James and stay on it, 
you're good with tubeless tires. 

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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread Roberta

*Joe and Franklin*--Is the compressor for only originally seating the tire, 
or is it for ongoing pumping in air?  So, if I have James mount the tire, 
i'm OK with my standard floor pump for pumping air in?

*Ted--*when you say it doesn't hold air as well, are you talking pumping on 
a daily or hourly basis instead of weekly, or is it in the same ballpark, 
but just slightly more often?

Thanks,
Roberta

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 1:24:09 PM UTC-4, franklyn wrote:
>
> Joe,
>
> Tubeless sealant in inner tubes is a good compromise if you don't want to 
> worry about compressors, but want to have the benefits of the sealant. I 
> have two bikes with tubeless and 3 with tubes. I also don't have a 
> compressor. With new tubeless tires I have had good luck using my floor 
> pump to seat the beads. With used tires, I go to a nearby gas station and 
> use a valve converter and a quarter to inflate quickly! 
>
> Franklyn
>
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:53:53 AM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> I'm a Tubeless Denier because I've had miserable luck mounting them with 
>> a floor pump and I'm not willing to pay for a noisy compressor to do the 
>> job, but I've been fixing flats for more decades than I care to number here 
>> and consider it part of the cycling deal. For folks who are not me and 
>> aren't fixing/mounting tires anyway, tubeless seems the way to go for 
>> lightness and less flats. I had them on a Crust Lightning Bolt I got from 
>> James and Candice @ Analog and they were light and plush. 
>>
>> Roberta: I did get one puncture which sent some goo flying because I 
>> didn't use fenders, but it sealed up right away and got me back home. I had 
>> some cleanup to do later but it was a lot less work than if I'd had to stop 
>> and swap tubes on the road. 
>>
>> Conclusion: Don't be like Old School Joe, go tubeless, be light with no 
>> flats! 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread Adam Leibow

As someone who's had both the Cheviot and the Clem L, I don't understand 
the comments about the Cheviot being lighter or faster. My Cheviot was 
neither compared to my Clem L, and it wasn't because of a difference of 
part weight or the presence of a rack or not. The builds were almost 
identical. I found the Clem L to be more springy and light (maybe not in 
actual weight, but in pedal stroke sensation / effort). 

However, it could have been the tires. The Cheviot had 2.0" Big Bens and 
the Clem L had Compass Antelope Hills (~2.3"). The Big Bens are much 
heavier and have more rolling resistance. Perhaps try a lighter, suppler 
tire like the Antelope Hill or the Schwalbe G One? 

As someone who owns an actually light bike (sub-20lb titanium road bike 
with carbon fork and no cargo whatsoever), I really don't see making the 
Clem L meaningfully lighter, unless you're talking about big differences 
like "front and rear steel racks vs. no racks". 

Ride characteristics of a frame and bike fit are just as important to your 
speed as sheer bike weight. 

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020 at 9:02:00 PM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble 
> because we talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each 
> other’s ideas and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire. 
>
> So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with 
> light parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile, 
> Roberta is giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots 
> of new parts and she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and 
> I’m like that little sister who wants what her sister has, I want to 
> explore what it would take to lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike 
> at present, and which is quite heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in 
> Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If my Clem could lose a little weight it 
> would be the most perfect bike anyone could dream up. A Susie version of 
> Clems would be just so ideal - someone should tell Riv. 
>
> Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what 
> kind, how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably lighter? 
> I don’t think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it for Killer 
> Hill. And what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would that negate 
> my weight savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part with those. 
> Maybe I’m not the best candidate for this... 
>
> Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big 
> difference? As in, is it worth the money? 
>
> Thanks! 
> Leah

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread James / Analog Cycles

A Soma Mixte with light wheels and a 1x drivetrain probably fits the bill.  
Happy to help with one if needed.

Best, james

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 1:12:57 PM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> I hope Rivendell is reading some of these threads and that they will 
> design bikes that are more accessible to the female of the species. Like 
> the Susie. Typically we women don’t have the upper body strength of men, 
> and we tend to be lighter. So, when people say “make the bike lighter, 
> focus on the engine” it doesn’t do me any good. 
>
> Actually, this came up just yesterday. The boys have surrogate 
> grandparents here in Vegas. They are a lovely couple in their mid-70s who 
> don’t have grandchildren and so have claimed my boys. This couple is active 
> and they like to ride their bikes together. Yesterday the wife called me 
> and she asked me where I got my bike and how did I find that company? She 
> wants to get her bars up higher and she wants a lighter bike. I was so 
> deflated because there is not one Riv I could recommend to her - she is 
> maybe 5’2” and 105 pounds. I cannot see her on a Clem L or a Cheviot 
> because they are just too unwieldy. She doesn’t want a diamond frame, so 
> the Roadini is out. She is not going to spend $6k on a custom. They take 
> their bikes on their bike rack and we have really steep hills here and I 
> just know the Clem/Cheviot are not the right choice for her. I love 
> Rivendell best of all bikes in existence but I cannot recommend a Rivendell 
> to her.
>
> I’d like to see a little more diversity in the Riv lineup so that it would 
> be more inclusive. I know who the customer base is and that I’m in the 
> minority, and that’s fine, but there are more people like me and Roberta 
> and Melanie and Ann now, and it would be nice to buy Rivs that we don’t 
> have to beat into submission to accommodate our female-ness. 
>
> I hope that didn’t come off as harsh. I don’t mean it to be. I really want 
> Rivendell to do well; I love that company. I’d like to see it grow.
> Leah
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:05 AM, Melanie > 
> wrote:
>
> 
> James and Roberta - what lighter 650B wheels are you recommending?
>
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 12:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>>
>> I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble 
>> because we talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each 
>> other’s ideas and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire. 
>>
>> So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with 
>> light parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile, 
>> Roberta is giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots 
>> of new parts and she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and 
>> I’m like that little sister who wants what her sister has, I want to 
>> explore what it would take to lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike 
>> at present, and which is quite heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in 
>> Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If my Clem could lose a little weight it 
>> would be the most perfect bike anyone could dream up. A Susie version of 
>> Clems would be just so ideal - someone should tell Riv. 
>>
>> Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what 
>> kind, how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably lighter? 
>> I don’t think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it for Killer 
>> Hill. And what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would that negate 
>> my weight savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part with those. 
>> Maybe I’m not the best candidate for this... 
>>
>> Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big 
>> difference? As in, is it worth the money? 
>>
>> Thanks! 
>> Leah
>
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> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!

Well, whatever you think of the gendered bike names, I feel really sorry for 
the person who has to report their bike missing/stolen one day and tell the 
police it’s a Wolbis Slugstone. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

I guess I have no feeling about Romance languages and have gone off on quite a 
lockdown-induced tangent. I should probably go ride my very light Frank Jones 
Señor! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

No argument, though how do you feel about Romance languages where everything is 
gendered?
With boats I’d say it’s just cultural tradition dating way back, and any 
rationalization would likely seem sexist.
Alls I’m saying is I think the notion that giving a conveyance a female name 
makes it ill suited for male use or ownership seems odd to me.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

Honestly Ted the gendered name thing for vehicles has always eluded me. Some 
guys refer to their cars as "her" and...I don't get it. It's metal, it's an it. 
 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

I’ve long thought it odd that boats are female but bikes aren’t.
Have you ever known a guy who wouldn’t own a boat with female name?

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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread Kent Peterson -- Eugene, Oregon

Joe (and others),

You don't need a compressor if you decide to go tubeless. Just get a good pump 
with a reserve tank, like this one:

https://amzn.to/3c0Ck88

You pump up the tank to a very high pressure, the flip a switch & whoosh the 
air goes into your tire super fast. It's very nifty & entirely human powered.

Kent Peterson
Eugene, OR USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

Totally agree about the names. It was pointed out to me recently that when the 
Clementine name was dropped so it wouldn't be a "girl's bike", we were still 
left with a guy name for all of them. And guess who didn't notice because I'm a 
guy?? I was embarrassed by that 臘

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread DHans

My recommendation would be to move away from gendered names and gendered 
marketing and just build bikes that are lighter weight, heavier weight and 
let the buyer choose which suits them best. Society seems to be moving in 
this direction and why not follow that path for the better of all. A big 
strong person may want a lighter bike for their own reasons and may not be 
comfortable buying a Susie or a Frankie or whatever for what ever reason, 
doesn't really matter. Variety is the spice of life, right? I'm sure 
offering more frames is costly but like Leah said, we all like Rivendell 
Bike Works and want them to be successful. If they can find a way to offer 
more bike selections I think sales would increase. I'm a bit of an impulse 
buyer, unfortunately, and when a frame is "out of stock" I may not be ready 
to buy in six months. I hope Riv succeeds and can make more options for 
folks.
Doug

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 2:00:59 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> "The combination that will fulfill these functions features are pretty 
> unique: non-diamond frame, lightweight tubes, long wheelbase, wide tires."
>
> Whether there's actually a market for them worth Grant/Riv's trouble is 
> above my pay grade, but I see Leah's point of wanting to recommend a Riv to 
> her neighbors and not feeling like she could. My 45cm Clem L was pretty 
> stout for such a small step-thru frame..great for short-not-125-lbs. me, 
> but really how many guys are looking for that frame? I think a 45 Clem 
> fitting the criteria in your quote makes more sense. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

"The combination that will fulfill these functions features are pretty unique: 
non-diamond frame, lightweight tubes, long wheelbase, wide tires."

Whether there's actually a market for them worth Grant/Riv's trouble is above 
my pay grade, but I see Leah's point of wanting to recommend a Riv to her 
neighbors and not feeling like she could. My 45cm Clem L was pretty stout for 
such a small step-thru frame..great for short-not-125-lbs. me, but really how 
many guys are looking for that frame? I think a 45 Clem fitting the criteria in 
your quote makes more sense. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread Mike Packard

I agree with the notion that new tires are probably the easiest way to
improve the ride. But I must respectfully disagree with the light & supple
knobby tire (e.g. Thunder Burt) advice for the type of bikes and riding
we're talking about in this thread. For myself I start with the fastest,
plushest smooth tires and then only downgrade to knobbies only if the
riding really needs it, which it never does. I have Barlow Pass (700x38) on
my Homer and they can handle anything I do on that bike, including trails.

Flats: The trick is to run them at a pressure where I look down and they
are slightly deflected while riding. I went over a year with no flats on a
pair. This applies to all tires BTW.

Price: Maybe more than some other tires but I'm riding a Rivendell because
I am want the best possible riding experience. The tires last years and are
probably the most noticeable improvement in ride I made to my bike. It's a
total bargain to me.

(Disclaimer: I am not a prolific tire tester; I have not tried the other
smooth tires like horizons and somas and g-ones and such; I'm sure some of
the others are just as good, I just don't have personal experience with
them.)

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

The combination that will fulfill these functions features are pretty 
unique: non-diamond frame, lightweight tubes, long wheelbase, wide tires. 
Even the Betty and Cheviot, which are lighter than the Clem Ls, are not 
considered light, especially not for folks who are in the weight range you 
are talking about. My wife is ~ 125 lbs and Betty would have been too stout 
for her, even if she carries a full commuting or camping load. 

There are other companies who make small batches mixte frames. I have a 
soft spot for Jitensha because I have an Ebisu and it is on the same street 
as my house in Berkeley. It makes a beautiful mixte  
(scroll down half way). 
You can pick your custom color. It is $1000 more than a Cheviot, but not as 
expensive as a custom. It will be lighter than Betty, but I doubt 
Hiroshi-san (the proprietor there) would spec anyone long seat stays in the 
neighborhood of more recent Rivs. 

At mid-$2000 range, you can find a competent custom builder to build you 
something that ticks all those boxes.

Franklyn

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:12:57 AM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> I hope Rivendell is reading some of these threads and that they will 
> design bikes that are more accessible to the female of the species. Like 
> the Susie. Typically we women don’t have the upper body strength of men, 
> and we tend to be lighter. So, when people say “make the bike lighter, 
> focus on the engine” it doesn’t do me any good. 
>
> Actually, this came up just yesterday. The boys have surrogate 
> grandparents here in Vegas. They are a lovely couple in their mid-70s who 
> don’t have grandchildren and so have claimed my boys. This couple is active 
> and they like to ride their bikes together. Yesterday the wife called me 
> and she asked me where I got my bike and how did I find that company? She 
> wants to get her bars up higher and she wants a lighter bike. I was so 
> deflated because there is not one Riv I could recommend to her - she is 
> maybe 5’2” and 105 pounds. I cannot see her on a Clem L or a Cheviot 
> because they are just too unwieldy. She doesn’t want a diamond frame, so 
> the Roadini is out. She is not going to spend $6k on a custom. They take 
> their bikes on their bike rack and we have really steep hills here and I 
> just know the Clem/Cheviot are not the right choice for her. I love 
> Rivendell best of all bikes in existence but I cannot recommend a Rivendell 
> to her.
>
> I’d like to see a little more diversity in the Riv lineup so that it would 
> be more inclusive. I know who the customer base is and that I’m in the 
> minority, and that’s fine, but there are more people like me and Roberta 
> and Melanie and Ann now, and it would be nice to buy Rivs that we don’t 
> have to beat into submission to accommodate our female-ness. 
>
> I hope that didn’t come off as harsh. I don’t mean it to be. I really want 
> Rivendell to do well; I love that company. I’d like to see it grow.
> Leah
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:05 AM, Melanie > 
> wrote:
>
> 
> James and Roberta - what lighter 650B wheels are you recommending?
>
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 12:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>>
>> I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble 
>> because we talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each 
>> other’s ideas and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire. 
>>
>> So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with 
>> light parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile, 
>> Roberta is giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots 
>> of new parts and she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and 
>> I’m like that little sister who wants what her sister has, I want to 
>> explore what it would take to lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike 
>> at present, and which is quite heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in 
>> Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If my Clem could lose a little weight it 
>> would be the most perfect bike anyone could dream up. A Susie version of 
>> Clems would be just so ideal - someone should tell Riv. 
>>
>> Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what 
>> kind, how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably lighter? 
>> I don’t think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it for Killer 
>> Hill. And what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would that negate 
>> my weight savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part with those. 
>> Maybe I’m not the best candidate for this... 
>>
>> Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big 
>> difference? As in, is it worth the money? 
>>
>> Thanks! 
>> Leah
>
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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

Joe,

Tubeless sealant in inner tubes is a good compromise if you don't want to 
worry about compressors, but want to have the benefits of the sealant. I 
have two bikes with tubeless and 3 with tubes. I also don't have a 
compressor. With new tubeless tires I have had good luck using my floor 
pump to seat the beads. With used tires, I go to a nearby gas station and 
use a valve converter and a quarter to inflate quickly! 

Franklyn

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 9:53:53 AM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I'm a Tubeless Denier because I've had miserable luck mounting them with a 
> floor pump and I'm not willing to pay for a noisy compressor to do the job, 
> but I've been fixing flats for more decades than I care to number here and 
> consider it part of the cycling deal. For folks who are not me and aren't 
> fixing/mounting tires anyway, tubeless seems the way to go for lightness 
> and less flats. I had them on a Crust Lightning Bolt I got from James and 
> Candice @ Analog and they were light and plush. 
>
> Roberta: I did get one puncture which sent some goo flying because I 
> didn't use fenders, but it sealed up right away and got me back home. I had 
> some cleanup to do later but it was a lot less work than if I'd had to stop 
> and swap tubes on the road. 
>
> Conclusion: Don't be like Old School Joe, go tubeless, be light with no 
> flats! 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

I hope Rivendell is reading some of these threads and that they will design 
bikes that are more accessible to the female of the species. Like the Susie. 
Typically we women don’t have the upper body strength of men, and we tend to be 
lighter. So, when people say “make the bike lighter, focus on the engine” it 
doesn’t do me any good. 

Actually, this came up just yesterday. The boys have surrogate grandparents 
here in Vegas. They are a lovely couple in their mid-70s who don’t have 
grandchildren and so have claimed my boys. This couple is active and they like 
to ride their bikes together. Yesterday the wife called me and she asked me 
where I got my bike and how did I find that company? She wants to get her bars 
up higher and she wants a lighter bike. I was so deflated because there is not 
one Riv I could recommend to her - she is maybe 5’2” and 105 pounds. I cannot 
see her on a Clem L or a Cheviot because they are just too unwieldy. She 
doesn’t want a diamond frame, so the Roadini is out. She is not going to spend 
$6k on a custom. They take their bikes on their bike rack and we have really 
steep hills here and I just know the Clem/Cheviot are not the right choice for 
her. I love Rivendell best of all bikes in existence but I cannot recommend a 
Rivendell to her.

I’d like to see a little more diversity in the Riv lineup so that it would be 
more inclusive. I know who the customer base is and that I’m in the minority, 
and that’s fine, but there are more people like me and Roberta and Melanie and 
Ann now, and it would be nice to buy Rivs that we don’t have to beat into 
submission to accommodate our female-ness. 

I hope that didn’t come off as harsh. I don’t mean it to be. I really want 
Rivendell to do well; I love that company. I’d like to see it grow.
Leah

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 8, 2020, at 9:05 AM, Melanie  wrote:
> 
> 
> James and Roberta - what lighter 650B wheels are you recommending?
> 
>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 12:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>> I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble because 
>> we talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each other’s 
>> ideas and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire. 
>> 
>> So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with 
>> light parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile, 
>> Roberta is giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots of 
>> new parts and she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and I’m 
>> like that little sister who wants what her sister has, I want to explore 
>> what it would take to lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike at 
>> present, and which is quite heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in 
>> Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If my Clem could lose a little weight it 
>> would be the most perfect bike anyone could dream up. A Susie version of 
>> Clems would be just so ideal - someone should tell Riv. 
>> 
>> Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what 
>> kind, how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably lighter? 
>> I don’t think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it for Killer 
>> Hill. And what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would that negate 
>> my weight savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part with those. 
>> Maybe I’m not the best candidate for this... 
>> 
>> Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big 
>> difference? As in, is it worth the money? 
>> 
>> Thanks! 
>> Leah
> 
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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread James / Analog Cycles

Melanie, we don't just recommend wheels randomly, we build quotes based on 
rider weight, bike style, gear weight, where the riding is taking place, 
and what kind of weather it will be ridden in.   Roberta's wheelset might 
not be suitable to you, and visa versa.  Feel free to email me if you have 
any other questions!  
-James   

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 12:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble 
> because we talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each 
> other’s ideas and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire. 
>
> So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with 
> light parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile, 
> Roberta is giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots 
> of new parts and she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and 
> I’m like that little sister who wants what her sister has, I want to 
> explore what it would take to lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike 
> at present, and which is quite heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in 
> Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If my Clem could lose a little weight it 
> would be the most perfect bike anyone could dream up. A Susie version of 
> Clems would be just so ideal - someone should tell Riv. 
>
> Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what 
> kind, how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably lighter? 
> I don’t think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it for Killer 
> Hill. And what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would that negate 
> my weight savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part with those. 
> Maybe I’m not the best candidate for this... 
>
> Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big 
> difference? As in, is it worth the money? 
>
> Thanks! 
> Leah

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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

I'm a Tubeless Denier because I've had miserable luck mounting them with a 
floor pump and I'm not willing to pay for a noisy compressor to do the job, but 
I've been fixing flats for more decades than I care to number here and consider 
it part of the cycling deal. For folks who are not me and aren't 
fixing/mounting tires anyway, tubeless seems the way to go for lightness and 
less flats. I had them on a Crust Lightning Bolt I got from James and Candice @ 
Analog and they were light and plush. 

Roberta: I did get one puncture which sent some goo flying because I didn't use 
fenders, but it sealed up right away and got me back home. I had some cleanup 
to do later but it was a lot less work than if I'd had to stop and swap tubes 
on the road. 

Conclusion: Don't be like Old School Joe, go tubeless, be light with no flats! 

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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread Melanie

James and Roberta - what lighter 650B wheels are you recommending?

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 12:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble 
> because we talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each 
> other’s ideas and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire. 
>
> So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with 
> light parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile, 
> Roberta is giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots 
> of new parts and she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and 
> I’m like that little sister who wants what her sister has, I want to 
> explore what it would take to lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike 
> at present, and which is quite heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in 
> Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If my Clem could lose a little weight it 
> would be the most perfect bike anyone could dream up. A Susie version of 
> Clems would be just so ideal - someone should tell Riv. 
>
> Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what 
> kind, how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably lighter? 
> I don’t think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it for Killer 
> Hill. And what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would that negate 
> my weight savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part with those. 
> Maybe I’m not the best candidate for this... 
>
> Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big 
> difference? As in, is it worth the money? 
>
> Thanks! 
> Leah

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread lconley


>
> I put a set of Fatty Rumpkin Greens on my Clementine, and they definitely 
> make for a more responsive ride than the Big Bens.


Reduction of rotating weight always pays the greatest dividend of any 
lightening efforts. With cars the rule-of-thumb is that 1 lb. off the 
wheels/tires is equal to 10 lb. off any non-rotating part of the car - 
especially important on low power vehicles. I put wheels and tires on my 
Honda Fit that were a total of 40 lbs. lighter than the stock equipment and 
it is noticeably quicker. 

Laing
Delray Beach FL 

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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

Roberta,

I am an old dog, and slow to learn new tricks. With decades of riding on 
light tires I'm familiar and comfortable with fixing flats roadside, and 
skeptical of the purported wounderfulness of tubeless, particularly with 
higher pressure lower volume roadie tires. However last fall I got yet 
another bike and opted for a tubeless setup. Now 6 months in I'll say:
   i  I've had zero trouble with my tubless tires 
  ii  My tubless tires don't hold air as well as my tires with tubes in 
them (absent flats of course)
 iii  I've yet to need to mess with my tubeless tires during a ride.
 iv  I find I tend to ride my tubless bike after it rains (rain washes more 
stuff onto the roads and flats seem more frequent)
  v  I'm much more relaxed riding along trails that have "goat head" 
producing flora all over the place with the tubeless tires
 vi  It's time to add more sealant to my tires. Apparently this is a "cost" 
of tubless, the sealant dries up over time. Something to be aware of going 
in.

If you won't tolerate flats, and you don't like the ride of uber stout 
tires or want to shave weight by running light tires I'd say giving the 
tubeless thing a go is probably a good idea. 

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 8:26:38 AM UTC-7, Roberta wrote:
>
> James,  I guess I listen too.  :)  I just imagine tubeless goo all over 
> the place if it leaks. Let's talk.  Also, black sidewalls, not tan.
>
> Roberta
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:41:26 AM UTC-4, ted wrote:
>>
>> James wrote "If I could convince her to go tubeless, we'd save another 
>> 200+ grams...  "
>>
>> James would you mind breaking that down, and detailing what you are 
>> including in each alternative?
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:57:03 AM UTC-7, James / Analog Cycles 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The wheels we're building and tire change on Roberta's bike alone save 
>>> 3lbs.  The 1x conversion will save even more.  I told her to ditch her 
>>> kickstand, because you can lean your bike or use a curb / pedal kickstand 
>>> easily.   The bike will never be light, but lighter wheels will make it 
>>> feel very light, and if we save 5 lbs, she can heft it easier onto the 
>>> train.   If I could convince her to go tubeless, we'd save another 200+ 
>>> grams...  
>>>
>>> -James / Analog Cycles / Get Enlightened.  
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 12:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding 
>>> Ding! wrote:

 I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble 
 because we talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each 
 other’s ideas and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire. 

>>>
 So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with 
 light parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile, 
 Roberta is giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots 
 of new parts and she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and 
 I’m like that little sister who wants what her sister has, I want to 
 explore what it would take to lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike 
 at present, and which is quite heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in 
 Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If my Clem could lose a little weight it 
 would be the most perfect bike anyone could dream up. A Susie version of 
 Clems would be just so ideal - someone should tell Riv. 

 Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what 
 kind, how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably 
 lighter? 
 I don’t think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it for 
 Killer 
 Hill. And what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would that 
 negate 
 my weight savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part with those. 
 Maybe I’m not the best candidate for this... 

 Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big 
 difference? As in, is it worth the money? 

 Thanks! 
 Leah
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread Ahmed Elgasseir

I’m with you Roberta! :-D

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 8:26 AM Roberta  wrote:

> James,  I guess I listen too.  :)  I just imagine tubeless goo all over
> the place if it leaks. Let's talk.  Also, black sidewalls, not tan.
>
> Roberta
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:41:26 AM UTC-4, ted wrote:
>>
>> James wrote "If I could convince her to go tubeless, we'd save another
>> 200+ grams...  "
>>
>> James would you mind breaking that down, and detailing what you are
>> including in each alternative?
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:57:03 AM UTC-7, James / Analog Cycles
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> The wheels we're building and tire change on Roberta's bike alone save
>>> 3lbs.  The 1x conversion will save even more.  I told her to ditch her
>>> kickstand, because you can lean your bike or use a curb / pedal kickstand
>>> easily.   The bike will never be light, but lighter wheels will make it
>>> feel very light, and if we save 5 lbs, she can heft it easier onto the
>>> train.   If I could convince her to go tubeless, we'd save another 200+
>>> grams...
>>>
>>> -James / Analog Cycles / Get Enlightened.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 12:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding
>>> Ding! wrote:

 I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble
 because we talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each
 other’s ideas and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire.


>>>
 So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with
 light parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile,
 Roberta is giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots
 of new parts and she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and
 I’m like that little sister who wants what her sister has, I want to
 explore what it would take to lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike
 at present, and which is quite heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in
 Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If my Clem could lose a little weight it
 would be the most perfect bike anyone could dream up. A Susie version of
 Clems would be just so ideal - someone should tell Riv.

 Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what
 kind, how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably lighter?
 I don’t think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it for Killer
 Hill. And what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would that negate
 my weight savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part with those.
 Maybe I’m not the best candidate for this...

 Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big
 difference? As in, is it worth the money?

 Thanks!
 Leah
>>>
>>> --
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[RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread Roberta

James,  I guess I listen too.  :)  I just imagine tubeless goo all over the 
place if it leaks. Let's talk.  Also, black sidewalls, not tan.

Roberta


On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:41:26 AM UTC-4, ted wrote:
>
> James wrote "If I could convince her to go tubeless, we'd save another 
> 200+ grams...  "
>
> James would you mind breaking that down, and detailing what you are 
> including in each alternative?
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:57:03 AM UTC-7, James / Analog Cycles 
> wrote:
>>
>> The wheels we're building and tire change on Roberta's bike alone save 
>> 3lbs.  The 1x conversion will save even more.  I told her to ditch her 
>> kickstand, because you can lean your bike or use a curb / pedal kickstand 
>> easily.   The bike will never be light, but lighter wheels will make it 
>> feel very light, and if we save 5 lbs, she can heft it easier onto the 
>> train.   If I could convince her to go tubeless, we'd save another 200+ 
>> grams...  
>>
>> -James / Analog Cycles / Get Enlightened.  
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 12:02:00 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>>
>>> I’m not fully committing to this yet. Roberta and I get into trouble 
>>> because we talk on Marco Polo and then we get ideas and then we like each 
>>> other’s ideas and the next thing we know our wallets are on fire. 
>>>
>>>  
>>
>>> So, I am ordering a Cheviot, and I am spending extra $ to build it with 
>>> light parts. But that bike is a long way off, months, in fact. Meanwhile, 
>>> Roberta is giving her beloved Appaloosa a makeover and it is getting lots 
>>> of new parts and she’s having all the fun. And since we’re #Rivsisters and 
>>> I’m like that little sister who wants what her sister has, I want to 
>>> explore what it would take to lighten up my Clem L, which is my only bike 
>>> at present, and which is quite heavy. You’ll have heard me mention this in 
>>> Joe’s What Is A Cheviot thread. If my Clem could lose a little weight it 
>>> would be the most perfect bike anyone could dream up. A Susie version of 
>>> Clems would be just so ideal - someone should tell Riv. 
>>>
>>> Anyway, if I got aluminum Bosco bars, and new wheels (don’t ask me what 
>>> kind, how would I know?) would this make my bike feel considerably lighter? 
>>> I don’t think I can give up my front derailleur because I use it for Killer 
>>> Hill. And what if I wanted to add dyno while I was at it? Would that negate 
>>> my weight savings? Also, I’m keeping my racks; I can’t part with those. 
>>> Maybe I’m not the best candidate for this... 
>>>
>>> Has anyone built a Clem up with lighter parts? Does it make a big 
>>> difference? As in, is it worth the money? 
>>>
>>> Thanks! 
>>> Leah
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread Bill Schairer

I would suggest that another way to change the feel of your bike would be to 
play with the gearing.  If you are currently geared for hauling your steps 
between gears may make finding that perfect, effortless gear more difficult 
than if you had smaller steps between gears.  Gear the bike for how you want to 
use it.  That could mean changing cassette, chainrings, and even derailleurs 
and crank.  So much opportunity for fun experimentation.

Bill S

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

2020-04-08 Thread Brian Campbell

Ha! I have a heavy mixte already. ;-) 1970's Raleigh Super Course mixte 
frame with fenders, rack and a 7 speed internal geared hub.

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:50:08 AM UTC-4, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> 8 pounds, wow! That would feel like a huge difference. 
>
> Nope, I’ll never not enjoy a mixte-style bike. I just cannot give up the 
> freedom of not being constrained by a top tube. YOU should buy a Cheviot. 
> Because having two bikes that are significantly different makes sense!  
> All the cool kid are buying Cheviots.
>
> But wow, 26 pounds would be great! 
> In fun,
> Leah
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 8, 2020, at 7:43 AM, Brian Campbell  > wrote:
>
> 
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:31:22 AM UTC-4, Brian Campbell wrote:
>>
>> Buy a Roadeo and put upright bars on it. I guarantee your Clem will be 
>> relegated to "shopping bike" status afterward. 
>>
>
> D'oh hit post before I finished! I have an AHH (old version) that with 
> fenders,dyno lights weighs 26lbs. I had the same bike built up with racks 
> and bags that I rarely used. When I removed them I save 8lbs and it made a 
> huge difference for me. To me having two bikes that are significantly 
> different makes sense. Having a non-mixte style bike might be something you 
> really enjoy. 
>
> I can tell you from my own experience riding a lighter bike can be more 
> enjoyable. It simply depends on what you are using the bike for.
>
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>  
> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

Compared to road slicks, Thunder Burts are definitely more "burly", but 
they don't have the protective belts like Marathon or Big Bens do. 

three thoughts about flats:

1. Jan Heine's opinion is that when you use supple tires and run them at a 
reasonably low pressure, your chance of getting a flat us significantly 
lower. I have similar practice and tended to have similar luck as he does. 
Even when I was commuting daily through the debris-strewn streets of San 
Francisco I rarely had flat on my supple wide 650b tires.

2. Go tubeless as James suggested. If your rims are tubeless compatible, 
then tubeless improves on both situations. You are a lighter AND more 
puncture resistant. Tubeless sealant can seal most punctures you encounter 
on the road. There was a flickr picture of lister David removing goatheads 
from his tires at home but he didn't flat from them!

3. If your wheels are not tubeless compatible at the moment, you can put 
tubeless sealant in your inner tubes. At the lowish pressure (35psi) these 
wide tires run, most punctures will also be sealed by sealant-in-tube. You 
might experience a drop in pressure when the puncture takes place, but it 
won't flat. Just pump it up and you are good to go. 

Franklyn

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 7:53:29 AM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> Franklyn - I know nothings bout Thunder Burts but I’m tempted to buy them 
> because that is CHEAP. 
>
> Are they pretty resistant to flats? Flats are not my thing. They scare me 
> and I don’t know how to change them 
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 8, 2020, at 7:31 AM, franklyn > wrote:
>
> 
> Some of these lighter but more "expensive" things can be had more cheaply 
> with some astute shopping. That's part of the reason these online groups 
> are helpful as we can swap and upgrade to good used parts and sometimes get 
> good intel on sale of new parts! 
>
> For example, these 650b Schwalbe Thunder Burts tires are now only $29 per 
> at Universal 
> .
>  
> Were you using 50mm Big Ben? If you can fit Thunder Burts, you will shave 2 
> lbs off just by changing out the tires. Not only that, these Burts are 
> "supple" and great for mixed terrain riding also, and are known to roll 
> well even on pavement. 
>
> What James is doing with Roberta's bike is exactly how I would go about it 
> if I were try to shave weight off my own bike.
>
> Franklyn
>
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 6:59:15 AM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>>
>> See? I’m glad i asked because there are so many good points here. Let me 
>> see if I can respond to a few of the points/questions here. 
>>
>> New 55 Chev has 700 c wheels, so I can’t swap. 
>>
>> Roberta - YES, I will only have a rear rack and a Randi Jo bag on my 
>> bars. This will not be my hauling bike. The noble Clem can do that. (I 
>> cringe hearing myself say it because that’s pretty big talk. I’m probably 
>> strapping bags on and bringing treasures with me, who am I kidding.) 
>>
>> Franklyn, I have 2 inch Big Bens on that Clem right now, which, as you 
>> mentioned, are heavy. 
>>
>> LeRoy, you made a lot of solid points, and I think you’re right, I’m not 
>> changing the Clem with small, expensive parts swapping, so I’ll leave those 
>> bars and components alone. The DNA of the Clem is hard to buck. Also, I 
>> laughed at your fender reference. Leah Peterson is saving weight on her 
>> Clem - one fender! 
>>
>> Mark - I knew you would say this! Once you have known and loved long 
>> chainstays, you can’t go back. Well, I can’t. If I had the Betty and only 
>> the Betty, it’d have been content because I’d not have known the 
>> difference. But once I had the Clem and I had the choice, I chose the long, 
>> comfortable Clem every single time. That poor Betz sat parked. I think the 
>> longer Cheviot is going be be an improvement. Plus, I am partial to the 
>> name, headbadge and decals and always have been. I knew nothing about bikes 
>> when I bought my Betty. I got whatever Rivendell put on there. And now I 
>> know enough to ask for what I want and it’s going to be the first bike I’ve 
>> ever had say over and I cannot wait. 
>>
>> But I do think the one thing to come out of this is that wheels make a 
>> difference, which Joe and Franklyn also allude to. I’d be open to buying 
>> new wheels/tires if it made me a little lighter and thus faster. Plus, I 
>> know I’m getting dyno on the Cheviot and I have been thinking about it for 
>> the Clem. It’s $$$ but bikes are my one extravagance. 
>>
>> Surlyprof mentioned difference between aluminum and steel - I wouldn’t 
>> have known. That is really helpful. 
>>
>> Well, carry on. I have really enjoyed the opinions here. 
>>
>> Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom, 
>> Leah 
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition

Which should be motivating you to do that experiment.
Ride your bike, weigh it, strip off the bags, racks, fenders, kick stand, 
etc., weigh it again, and ride it again.
Note how many lbs you removed and how different (or similar) the striped 
bike is to the original configuration.


On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 7:50:08 AM UTC-7, Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:
>
> 8 pounds, wow! That would feel like a huge difference. 
>
> Nope, I’ll never not enjoy a mixte-style bike. I just cannot give up the 
> freedom of not being constrained by a top tube. YOU should buy a Cheviot. 
> Because having two bikes that are significantly different makes sense!  
> All the cool kid are buying Cheviots.
>
> But wow, 26 pounds would be great! 
> In fun,
> Leah
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Apr 8, 2020, at 7:43 AM, Brian Campbell  > wrote:
>
> 
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 8, 2020 at 10:31:22 AM UTC-4, Brian Campbell wrote:
>>
>> Buy a Roadeo and put upright bars on it. I guarantee your Clem will be 
>> relegated to "shopping bike" status afterward. 
>>
>
> D'oh hit post before I finished! I have an AHH (old version) that with 
> fenders,dyno lights weighs 26lbs. I had the same bike built up with racks 
> and bags that I rarely used. When I removed them I save 8lbs and it made a 
> huge difference for me. To me having two bikes that are significantly 
> different makes sense. Having a non-mixte style bike might be something you 
> really enjoy. 
>
> I can tell you from my own experience riding a lighter bike can be more 
> enjoyable. It simply depends on what you are using the bike for.
>
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> 
> .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Lighten Up: Clem Edition