[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

Yes, using a cable stop mounted at the fork is a very well known fix to eliminate the "bow" affect of a long cable run from the stem cable stop to the cable hanger that can be a source of judder. On Wednesday,

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

Actually, wow, re-reading it, I am misrepresenting that quote, I thought he was saying something different and overlayed my own point on top of it. That's what I get for responding too quickly. Ugh. I apologize. On Wednesday, October 21, 2020 at 2:08:41 PM UTC-7 S wrote: > Anyway, I should

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

The article claims that the relative motion of the pad to the rim can be changed by altering the distance of the pad to the brake arm with washers. This is false. The relative motion of the pad to the rim is fixed by the fixed relative location of the brake pivot to the rim. It does not matter

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

Anyway, I should have just linked Sheldon, whose descriptions and advice are always the best: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html On Wednesday, October 21, 2020 at 2:02:40 PM UTC-7 S wrote: > Maybe we are talking past each other or interpreting that passage > differently? To

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

Maybe we are talking past each other or interpreting that passage differently? To me, the point is not about pad angle, but arm/wire angle. You want a good arm/wire angle at the point where the pad contacts the rim and washers can help you achieve this. For instance, keeping all else equal, if

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

On Thursday, 22 October 2020 07:03:06 UTC+11, S wrote: > > I don't see how this general idea is wrong or "misinformation": > > "I try to make this slotted part of the arm be perpendicular to the brake > pad post when the pad contacts the rim. Why? Because this lets the pad > hit the rim as

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

"I try to make this slotted part of the arm be perpendicular to the brake pad post when the pad contacts the rim. Why? Because this lets the pad hit the rim as squarely as possible. Too far past 90 degrees and the brake loses power (especially true with v-brakes) and when the arm is past 90

Re: [RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

Yeah, but Mark you like DC750 brakes as well, so your views are pretty suspect :) Eric V brake fan On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 11:59 AM Mark Roland wrote: > I question the notion that these attributes represent a "significant > advantage." My Trek 830 still has the original basic cantilever brakes

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

This might be tangential, but here's an observation I made recently while playing with Canti brakes. When the cable stop is mounted on the stem (ie farther from the brakes), the setup becomes more squeak-prone as compared to a fork mounted cable stop. I was intrigued and changed around the

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

I don't see how this general idea is wrong or "misinformation": "I try to make this slotted part of the arm be perpendicular to the brake pad post when the pad contacts the rim. Why? Because this lets the pad hit the rim as squarely as possible. Too far past 90 degrees and the brake loses

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

and 3. the relative location of the straddle cable cable attachment points to the brake pad rim contact point. On Wednesday, October 21, 2020 at 3:16:49 PM UTC-4, lconley wrote: > > Sorry, but that article is full of misinformation as are many articles on > cantilever brakes. The brake pad

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

Sorry, but that article is full of misinformation as are many articles on cantilever brakes. The brake pad rim contact point to cantilever pivot point is constant regardless of where the pad washers are - it is a fixed distance. It is fixed by the relative position of the cantilever braze on

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

Although I have switched to using V-brakes, I agree that cantis work well when set up properly. Has anyone linked this article yet? Good tips: https://blackmtncycles.com/get-the-most-out-of-your-canti-brake/ I also agree with Ash that the model of canti can make a big difference. I think

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

I question the notion that these attributes represent a "significant advantage." My Trek 830 still has the original basic cantilever brakes from 1984. I don't think the pads, cables, or housing have been changed. Stops like a charm. Even after being under all that averse tension and

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

Travel Agents need to be set up correctly so the cable has no relative motion with respect to the pulley, especially around the bridging hole. Otherwise, the sharp kink and repeated motion may possibly cause the cable to fray. The key is to ensure the bridging hole is set correctly within the

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

Daniel's statement makes some sense- "but there are significant benefits to long-pull brakes, both rim and mechanical disc, in that the cable is under less tension so the cable stretches less and the housing compresses less as a result." That's enough of a reason to never use cantilevers again.

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

Twice I had frayed cables even when installed by LBS. I was told by 2 different bike mechanics frayed cables were not uncommon - also I remember the feel was not as good as direct. YMMV On Monday, October 19, 2020 at 11:00:48 AM UTC-7 vhans...@gmail.com wrote: > Please expand? I have used

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

Please expand? I have used travel agents for years, even replaced cables on them.. I have had no issues. VTW On Monday, October 19, 2020 at 9:34:19 AM UTC-7 fugd...@gmail.com wrote: > There are real problems with Travel Agents, including safety. I just > changed levers. > > On Monday,

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

Thanks for all the info, everyone! I'll need to take a deeper dive into the comments shortly. On Monday, October 19, 2020 at 12:57:12 PM UTC-4 Ash wrote: > Here's a related thread > https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/a0uWpfDl6Ss/m/G7bKwJ8XCAAJ > > After experimenting with various

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

There are real problems with Travel Agents, including safety. I just changed levers. On Monday, October 19, 2020 at 8:26:56 AM UTC-7 Michael Baquerizo wrote: > i'm not a pro mechanic by any means but i've used the standard shimano > lever on a tektro canti front and shimano v brake rear and

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

i'm not a pro mechanic by any means but i've used the standard shimano lever on a tektro canti front and shimano v brake rear and didn't really have beef with the stopping power (casual use, not performance at all, in NYC) On Friday, October 16, 2020 at 5:18:09 PM UTC-4 greenteadrinkers

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

I will also throw out there that finding a long-pull lever you can live with is a preferable solution than Travel Agents. I'd sooner go with a short-arm V-brake than use a Travel Agent, but there are significant benefits to long-pull brakes, both rim and mechanical disc, in that the cable is

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

I’d be more likely to put the V on the front, like Nick. His travel agent trick is a smart way to match the levers with the different brakes, too. I’ve had two bikes that needed Paul minimotos to cure the brake judder. The light forks and long steerers did the flexing trick under hard braking,

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

I have the opposite on my Appaloosa - V-brake in front and canti on the rear. I used that combination because I found that cantis on the front get in the way of front panniers - I prefer touring with front panniers and no rear panniers. The brake levers are TRP and with a travel agent on the

[RBW] Re: V-Brake and Canti...

Try the Tektro fork mounted cable hanger as the front brake cable is then direct to it just above the yoke cable. It's a common thing for shudder in the Cyclocross world. Also make sure your headset is properly adjusted. -- You received this message because you are

Re: [RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

Better stopping power might depend on the observer. I find that Vs do stop better, maybe too better. If you only have one bike however, or you have the same type of actuation on all you bikes, ie...long pull or short pull then you'd probably get used to the extra power. I personally find V

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

Jan: After all the fiddling I talked about above on my wife's bike, I converted my Atlantis to V-brakes the long cable pull Tektro levers. The previous brakes were Tekro 720 with Tekro's standard pull levers. The braking effort is considerably less with the V-brakes, and my arms don't wear out

Re: [RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

FWIW: I've fretted about brakes for over 40 years, and I've used just about every kind there is, and my conclusion is that the best brakes bar none that I ever used -- equal to Vs and mech disks in power, better than single pivots in modulation -- were the Riv set up IRD wide profile cantils on

Re: [RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

I’m planning my new country bike with drop bars and bar end shifters and I’m considering which brakes I should choose. The alternatives I’m thinking at the moment are: - Tektro CR720 cantilevers Shimano BL-R400 levers - Avid Single Digit 7 V-brakes Tektro RL 520 levers From reading this thread

Re: [RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

Go with the V-brakes b/c they can be less of an ass pain to setup. The tektro 520 levers also feel pretty good in my hands. Having said that - so do the shimano levers. However, if you really want cantis, spring for the paul cantis - they are just a nicer brake and less fidgety to setup than the

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

Travel Agents were OEM on our tandem to convert the 105 STI lever pull to operate the Linear pull brakes. I found them only just more tolerable than the STI levers, especially the day the left one failed, I scrapped the STI levers and the Travel Agents, switching to bar-end shifters and Dia Compe

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

There seems to be a strong endorsement for dedicated brake levers designed for the longer cable pull. When I first got this bright idea, Riv had the levers to go with the brakes. Time I quit mulling got to ordering, the levers were gone but the Travel Agents were still there. No worries,

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

Jim, you point to the problem I have had with Shimano levers, since my experience is limited to Ultegra levers with Shimano and DiCompe cantis. They just required so much pull that the pads had to be set all but touching the rims, which was, of course, impossible to keep adjusted. The first

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

Jeremy: Thanks for the explanation. I've read Sheldon's article have the BQ brake issue, but your explanation is a bit more in layman's terms. Good stuff. Jim: My first cut is also to just set the pads flat to the rim leave 'em if nothing makes noise. Makes sense to have the maximum area at

Re: [RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

The old Shimano wide profile cantis on the trike, and the modern wide IRCs (I think that's the brand) on the Sam Hill are both very powerful and set up with little hassle. I didn't even bother putting salmon pads on the Shimanos. I could never get low profiles to work well with drop bar levers.

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

I have never been able to get Shimano levers to work well with cantis. Cane Creek / Tektro levers work very well with both my Neo Retros and Racers. I have arthritis so no longer have the grip I did 20 years ago, so am probably a good test subject for this discussion. Personally a travel

Re: [RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

On Tue, 2012-01-17 at 05:49 -0800, Michael Hechmer wrote: I have never been able to get Shimano levers to work well with cantis. Not my experience at all. I have Shimano aero levers on bikes with Shimano Deore XT II and Avid Shorty 4 cantis, and they work as well as those same levers on bikes

Re: [RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

Dia Compe 986's and Shimano Tiagra levers work very well on my bike. Shimano Tiagra levers are reported to work well with cantis in general. On Jan 17, 2012, at 6:45 AM, Steve Palincsar wrote: On Tue, 2012-01-17 at 05:49 -0800, Michael Hechmer wrote: I have never been able to get Shimano

Re: [RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

Even the cheapie Tektro v-brakes, which are under $30 for a bike's worth, are amazingly powerful and all but foolproof to set up. I stopped using cantilevers on my own bikes several years ago. Canti fans often claim that cantilevers are a simple matter of set-up, that theoretically they

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

+1 on travel agents feel funny. Have been the full circle on my Sam: V- brakes with travel agents, Tektro CR720 cantis, back to V-brakes with Tektro RL520 levers. Was painful to cut off my less than 2 yr. old harlequin wrap, but am glad I did. David On Jan 16, 2:19 am, fugd...@gmail.com

Re: [RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

I'm really enjoying the braking with my cheap Shimano medium-profile cantis, arms out as wide as possible (posts still adequately captured by the brake bolt), straddle wire as low as possible... the feel is soft but the brakes are quick to stop. Another good analysis of cantilever brake geometry,

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

Doug, While my opinion is that the right cantilever brakes ( Avid or Paul ) stop just as well I would just caution that the Travel Agents have a reputation for cable failure becasue of the tighter bend. Since it's your wifes bike and she is a lighter weight person and probably won't be

Re: [RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

Hi James, Do you have any current source for the Dia Compe 986 brakes? I need them to remain period correct on my Bridgestone MB-1. Thanks John On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 9:02 AM, James Warren jimcwar...@earthlink.netwrote: Dia Compe 986's and Shimano Tiagra levers work very well on my bike.

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

Thanks for all the good comments, especially the Tektro pn for the V- brake specific lever. Funny that with all the V-brakes out there, there aren't more road levers for them. The more I look at these how they work, ease of set-up (Travel Agent issues aside) and staying out of the way of

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

Actually, I've found that maximizing braking power with cantilevers or v brakes often results in levers that feel mushy compared to say, caliper brakes. In fact, what you are doing is maximizing the mechanical advantage of the system; if the levers are moving a relatively large amount (say,

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

One common cause of mushiness is excessive toe-in of the pads. I generally start with the pads flat against the rim, and toe-in only if there's shuddering or squealing. I've only dealt with travel agents on tandems, where they are a stock item when STI and v-brakes are the spec. Interestingly,

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

Travel Agents feel funny and the cable is much more susceptible to breaking.V-brakes are better in the wet. On Jan 15, 9:21 pm, dougP dougpn...@cox.net wrote: Jim: I'll keep that in mind.  The bike is my wife's Atlantis has the Shimano levers Riv uses.  I hate to start tearing into the

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

+1. For those inclined to learn about the hows and whys, and fiddle about with different types of (virtual) cantilever brakes, there's always: http://www.circleacycles.com/cantilevers/ On Jan 15, 3:06 pm, Scott G. sco...@primax.com wrote: There are cantilevers, then there are cantilevers, ye

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

V-brakes are easier to pull. Ryan On Jan 15, 1:01 pm, dougP dougpn...@cox.net wrote: Does anyone know if the effort required is the same for V-brakes and cantis?  Or is one easier to pull than the other?  The rider in question has small hands and cannot grip very hard.  The bike is an

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

+1 on v-brakes being easier to pull. We almost always suggest an upgrade to v-brakes on bikes that come stock with cantilevers, especially when the rider has less than a Kung-Fu grip. Lots of women have trouble with cantilevers and drop bar type levers, but even strong manly men like me benefit

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

There are cantilevers, then there are cantilevers, ye olde high profile Mafac/Paul Neo retro need strong hands, low profile like Avid Shorty 6 or Paul Touring setup with the shortest practical straddle cable will equal or exceed V brakes. Cyclocross magazine did the test, hanging a fixed

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

Thanks Jim, that's what I needed to know. Now I've got job security at least thru tomorrow. The Travel Agent looks to be a well thought out device. dougP On Jan 15, 1:45 pm, Jim Thill - Hiawatha Cyclery thill@gmail.com wrote: +1 on v-brakes being easier to pull. We almost always suggest

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

If the bike in question is equipped with STI levers, then the travel agent is the way to go. Otherwise, the Tektro RL520 levers are a cheaper, better way to go. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To view this discussion on the

[RBW] Re: V-brake vs canti question

Jim: I'll keep that in mind. The bike is my wife's Atlantis has the Shimano levers Riv uses. I hate to start tearing into the handlebar set up (bar end shifters, etc) I have the brakes Travel Agents so I'll just install them see how that works. I read the Travel Agent instructions have